1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Alson media. 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 2: As we always do, we have included the sources for 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 2: this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: link to Primrose's legal aid fundraiser of people would like. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 3: To help out. 6 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 2: The week before you're hearing this, on a beautiful southern 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: California winter morning, I met some friends in a parking 8 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: lot near the border. We hopped into our trucks and 9 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 2: drove along dirt roads so we reached a pull up. 10 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 2: Once there, we threw on packs and hiked straight up 11 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: of steep hillside. Even in late November, the south facing 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: slope was hot. We're all sweating. By the time we 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: reached the GPS location we've been given. It wasn't hard 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: to spot a dark patch on the landscape where someone's 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: remains had returned to the earth. One friend had carried 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: a heavy wooden cross up the mountain. We dug a 17 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: hole in the rocky ground and then placed the white 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: wooden cross in it. Silently, we filled the whole back up, 19 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: stamped on the dirt until the cross stood straight up. 20 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 4: Then we decorated it with. 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: Marrow golds and seashells and dry flower petals, doing the 22 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: best we could. One friend carefully picked the petals off 23 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: the flowers, laid them on the arms of the cross. 24 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: Another sprinkled poppy seeds into the ground. We stood in 25 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: silence for a while that the construction of the secondary 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: border wall didn't halt for a minute in silence, and 27 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: then together we paid our respects to Graciela. Sonton Gormez 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: had an this. His last moments were spent looking at 29 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: the same sky we were looking at, gazing down onto 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: the two border walls that were built to separate us 31 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: from her. She died in September in the heat wave 32 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: the same month. A year before, I'd had to call 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: nine one one for several migrants with heat stroke. I'd 34 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: come across she died, a friend told me, with her 35 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: clothes folded next to her, sheltering under a bush, looking 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: from the place where erected the lonely little cross, that 37 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: was all we had left remember her. I could see 38 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: four border patrol surveilled at Santanas. She was just a 39 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: few hundred yards from the wall from the road, but 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: it took weeks for anyone to find her. 41 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 5: Gracilasi and Gomez ls presently Gracilas vomits er lambs Gracila 42 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 5: Gormez lands. 43 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: Obviously we arrived too late to help, but we arrived 44 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: soon enough to ensure that least in death, she was 45 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 2: afforded to dignity the world has denied. 46 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 4: Her in life. 47 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: Then I strapped half of fifty gallon barrels my backpack frame, 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: where my friends carried slabs of water bottles. 49 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 4: As we walked. 50 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: A construction vehicle above us drilled holes into the earth 51 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 2: for pylons that would hold a second thirty foot wall. 52 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: On the sixty degree slope above the vehicle, a helicopter 53 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: flew around, and then it flew back, and then he 54 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: think we were at the date on water bottles and 55 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: threw them minute barrel. 56 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: I tried to gain all. 57 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: Okay. 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 2: Doing this for years, we said goodbye to a fair 59 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: share of people who he never got to say hello 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: to and whose faces we never got to see. Last summer, 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: I helped asserch to the remains of a migrant who 62 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: had passed away in a canyon deep in the desert. 63 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: Every time I do this fills me with a deep sadness, 64 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: especially with all the friends from the jungle who I've 65 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: lost touch with since then. It could be easy to 66 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: look at everything I've laid out in this series and 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: feel hopeless. But I don't want you to. It could 68 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: be easy to feel afraid as well, because now is 69 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: the time that caring about other people is dangerous. It's 70 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: possible currently for some folks to keep their heads down 71 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: and try and keep themselves safe, or to confind their 72 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: actions to are angry posting on social media. But our 73 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: politics shouldn't be about anger. It should be about love. 74 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: Now more than ever, it's important to remember that we 75 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: don't act on our love and our solidarity with angry tweets. 76 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: We act on it by taking care of people. However 77 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: many walls they build, however many masked men with guns 78 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: they send. I don't believe it's within the power of 79 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: the state to stop people caring about each other, and 80 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: I hope that that care compels people to do something. 81 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: In fact, I think seeing so much cruelty makes us 82 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: all realize that it's up to us to care for 83 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: one another. People have cared for Primrose and Kim in 84 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 2: all kinds of ways since they came here, and today 85 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: we're going to hear from some of them. Friends bought 86 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: Kimberly's school books where they were stuck in Mexico. Some 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: other folks put on a burlesque performance here in San 88 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: Diego to raise money for her lawyer. Hundreds of you 89 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: reached into your pockets to help her pay for illegal 90 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: living expenses when the state, both under Biden and under Trump, 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: made her of Kimberly feel unwelcome. 92 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: You didn't. 93 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: I've carried my fair share of water into the desert 94 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: under Biden administration as well. It was Biden's policies that 95 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: left little Mioomi stuck in Mexico, not Trump's. It was 96 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: Biden's policies to detain people in the open air and 97 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: let them with no food or water or shelter. 98 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 4: And it was. 99 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: Everyday people like my friends and I who fed them 100 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: and sheltered them and took care of them. We took 101 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 2: donations and dived into dumpsters to grab tents, who worked 102 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: hard every day to build shelters, cook food, and give 103 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: away clothing so that people could feel welcome and safe. 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: Here. 105 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: Not a single elected official gave out a single sandwich, 106 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: much less made one in the months that thousands of 107 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: people were detained out doors in a cumbu and salusigital. 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 2: But people from churches, goodwaras, latterday Saints people and quakers, 109 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: as what as a whole lot of anarchists and crosspunks 110 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: and just desert people with no particular politics did I'm 111 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: not saying, mister Patus on the back, I don't think 112 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: any of us really wanted to be mentioned at all. 113 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: Like many of us, some of my happiest memories were 114 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: the days we fed strangers, then sat around fires, sharing 115 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: stories and sometimes songs. Since then, I've been privileged to 116 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: share the joys and struggles some of those people faced 117 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: in their new lives here. I've attended their weddings. I've 118 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: tried to help them understand that by action accents, but 119 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: I've helped them come to terms with the fact that 120 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: you simply can't get around large parts of this country 121 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: without a car. I'm saying this because I think it's 122 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: important that whatever happens after this current administration, we can't 123 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: ever go back to the way things were before. We 124 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: can't let migrants be invisible in our communities. We can't 125 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: let them keep dying at the border. Let's talk about 126 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: what carrying looks like. In Primrose's case, this time last year, 127 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 2: I just released my Darien gap podcast, and a few 128 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: weeks after, I received a direct message about my Patreon newsletter. 129 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: It was from a guy called Matt. My name's Matt. 130 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 6: I'm just a normal person who listens to a lot 131 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 6: of podcasts. 132 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 4: I didn't know him and he didn't know me, but 133 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: he listened to the podcast I made. 134 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 6: I can still very vividly remember where I was when 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 6: I listened to that, which was I was coming back 136 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 6: from a dirt biking trip in Michigan, and so I 137 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,119 Speaker 6: had a seven hour drive and I was like, oh cool, 138 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 6: here's a three hour podcast that. 139 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 4: I listened to, and then I started listening. 140 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 6: To it, and then I was just like I got 141 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 6: into that mode where I was just like I couldn't 142 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 6: not finish it, you know. I was like absolutely hooked 143 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 6: and just needed needed to get all you needed to 144 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 6: get all the way to the end, and was just 145 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 6: really really moved by by the whole thing. 146 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: Like many Americans, until read to be late in by 147 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: an administration, Met knew about immigration, but he hadn't really 148 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: grappled with the fact that what secure borders means is 149 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: killing innocent people in the jungle, in the desert and 150 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: everywhere in between. That's how deterrence works. That's how it's 151 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: supposed to work. 152 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 6: Like, I didn't realize that that was like intentional. And 153 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 6: then hearing you know, hearing hearing yours, I was just 154 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 6: sort of like, oh, right, Like just the fact that 155 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 6: people would go to such a just such lengths of 156 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 6: a danger on a journey just across a continent and 157 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 6: knowing that once they get here they're not even welcome, Right, 158 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 6: We're gonna intentionally put up this like kind of life 159 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 6: or death obstacle. 160 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 4: Course, I kept. 161 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 6: Thinking about it, and the next day I was like, 162 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 6: let me like see if you've done anything else on it, 163 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 6: and I found a couple of your couple of your 164 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 6: other your other episodes on it, and I was like, wow, this, 165 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 6: this is this is wild. And that was you know 166 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 6: you you were you're talking about the open air detention 167 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 6: in the Hakumba area, and and I was like, this 168 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 6: is crazy, Like this is just happening just right outside 169 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 6: of San Diego. 170 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 4: I mean, it's just wild. 171 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: Matt felt like now that he knew this, he couldn't 172 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: not do something about it, so he took some of 173 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: his vacation time at work and came to southern California, The. 174 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 6: Thing that was crazy is seeing all the equipment, you know, 175 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 6: the equipment if you can call that, left behind by 176 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 6: the people traveling through these places where it's just like 177 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 6: normal chose and just like cheap Walmart backpacks and just 178 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 6: you know, the basic stuff that you would just like 179 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 6: where to school. 180 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: Matt joined friends and mine in the mountains, carrying water 181 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: and helping with some techi shoots we've been wondering about. 182 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: He saw the wool, and he saw the damage he does. 183 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: He saw the difficult terrain people have to cross just 184 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: to get a chance to ask for help here, the 185 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: ways they have to risk their lives even after they 186 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: make it to the USA. He also got to experience 187 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: the where the helping other people helps us. 188 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 6: As I was heading back home, I definitely had this 189 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 6: feeling about like like way less despair getting together with 190 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 6: people to just do something, to just do something useful 191 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 6: to help people, even if it's just like in a 192 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 6: tiny way, like even if somehow it doesn't help, but 193 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 6: it's like it probably will. But importantly doing it with 194 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 6: other people it made me feel a lot better. It 195 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 6: made me not feel so like just everything is fucked, 196 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 6: like the world is descending into fast, or when there's nothing. 197 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 4: I can do about it. It's like. 198 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 6: There are a lot of people who want to help 199 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 6: doing stuff with them is like is good. 200 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: Soon after, like all of us, he saw the board 201 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: it bringing its violence into cities across the United States. 202 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 6: I mean, like just masked federal agents, we assume, mostly 203 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 6: refusing to identify themselves, just randomly picking people up. I mean, 204 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 6: it's crazy and this is ah. 205 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 4: I mean, I literally am a loss for words. 206 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 6: I mean, it's just it's so the opposite of what 207 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 6: America is all about, straight up like fascism. Like I 208 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 6: just I never thought I would live through something like this. 209 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 6: I always just thought that's the kind of thing that 210 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 6: happens in other countries, you know. 211 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 4: I guess a lot of us thought that. 212 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: A lot of us probably thought this kind of state 213 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: violence was confined to other places, and other times we wondered, 214 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: perhaps absent mindly, what we might do in that places 215 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: and times for years, as a historian and a reporter, 216 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 2: have thought about them, read about them, visited them. Now 217 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: I'm living in them. 218 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 6: It's always just sort of like, in the same way 219 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 6: that you would think, what would happen if I was 220 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 6: in this I don't know, movie like it's not real. 221 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 4: Just think like, oh what if I was Jason Bourne. 222 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 4: Matt Knight stayed in touch. 223 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: One day he was in LA on business and I 224 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 2: mentioned I've been helping Primrose Naver get the mass transit 225 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: nightmare that is Los Angeles so she could get to 226 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: her ICE appointment. He offered to stop buy it if 227 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: you needed a ride anywhere. I connected them. He saw 228 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: her place and he offered to help. I guess with 229 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 2: furniture as well. Then it was time for him to 230 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: fly home every day like I do. He had to 231 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: worry about someone he knew being snatched. The Florida settlement 232 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: doesn't stop ICE from redetaining people, and in LA they 233 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: seem to be detaining anyone they could any way they could. 234 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 2: Kim had been afraid to go out now because she 235 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: didn't want to go back to detention. So once again 236 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: Matt decided he wanted to do something, and he asked 237 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: if Kim and Primrose might like to come and stay 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: with him on the East Coast. That's not an easy 239 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 2: choice to make. No no need doesn't mean sharing a space. 240 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: It also means taking yourself out of a safe group 241 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 2: and accepting that the states I have surn might fall 242 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: on you. 243 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 4: Now, you know. 244 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 6: I talked it over with my wife and we were like, 245 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 6: you know, both wanted to do this, and but you know, 246 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 6: we had to acknowledge like it might mean that like 247 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 6: these assholes and masks show up at our house, like 248 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 6: where our kids are and are like gonna haul away 249 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 6: just this family. That might happen in like right right 250 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 6: over there. I mean, I don't like it, but I. 251 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 4: Just I don't know. 252 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: I've just I feel like you gotta do just gotta 253 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: do something, you know. The end, he says, it wasn't 254 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: a hot decision to make. 255 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 6: I mean, it was a lot easier because my wife 256 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 6: was actually just like one hundred percent let's do it. 257 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 4: And I was like, well, hold on a. 258 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 6: Second, we should at least think through the outcome. 259 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 4: She's like, I don't care whatever, just do it. 260 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: Like a lot of people, Matt had always done things 261 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 2: to help people, but nothing like this, nothing that directly 262 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: put him in between someone who needed to be kept 263 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: safe and the people who. 264 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 4: Didn't want them to be safe. Yeah. I mean, nothing 265 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 4: is dangerous. I mean. 266 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 6: Charity stuff, but you know, sometimes with time, but usually 267 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 6: just like giving money to people to you know, who 268 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 6: need it or whatever. But you know, this is definitely 269 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 6: the most like direct involvement to help someone who needs it. 270 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 6: Certainly is the first time that I've exposed my family 271 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 6: to any thing like this. 272 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: So one day, this autumn promotion and Kimberdy said goodbye 273 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: to Los Angeles, got on a plane, flew to the 274 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: East coast. 275 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 6: I thought I was waiting at the right spot, but 276 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 6: they let him out at a different so they actually 277 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 6: walked past me in the airport. I didn't even see it, 278 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 6: but I eventually figured it out. Luckily, the airport is 279 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 6: not that big, and so I could just sort of walk, 280 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 6: just walk all the baggage claim Mary and I eventually 281 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 6: found them. 282 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: Then they went for sushi, then for ice cream, a 283 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: perfect suburban stripmall American evening, the sort of evening people 284 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: cross jungles and deserts be able to enjoy, the sort 285 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: of evening the hundreds of people I met in the 286 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: jungle will never be able to enjoy. Of course, it's 287 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: hard to sit in a cold stone and talk about 288 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: the things people enjoyed to come here. MAT's is sometimes 289 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: it's still difficult to even comprehend what his new friends 290 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: had been through. 291 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 6: It's hard to answer, like you're asking me a very 292 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 6: good question about like, well, what was it like? And 293 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 6: it's like the difference the distance between like our shared 294 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 6: experience is so vast it still often almost doesn't seem real. 295 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: I've had that same thought. It's hard to hear stories 296 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: from migrants and really think of them as human ex experiences, 297 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: not just stories. That's why I go into the mountains 298 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: and the desert. That's why I spent a decade asking 299 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 2: Gettus to send me to this daddy in. I didn't 300 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: think I could understand migrants journeys if I hadn't experienced 301 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: a little part of them. And I don't think we 302 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: could write about migrants or not write about what they 303 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: go through to get to a strip mall sushi place. 304 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: Of course, Primrose isn't done with her interaction with immigration 305 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: authorities yet. They've had visits from ICE in her new home, 306 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: but not from enforcement removal operations. 307 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 4: I mean, like they know where she lives. We told 308 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 4: them where she lives, so like she lives in my house, 309 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 4: so you know, yeah they might. I don't know. I mean, yeah, 310 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 4: I guess I'm. 311 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 6: Like not as afraid of that. I have to say 312 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 6: that the ICE people in seem just like a bunch 313 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 6: of cheery folks. Like it's seems pretty different than I mean, 314 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 6: like I met many of them, yeah, part of this process, 315 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 6: and they were not the like you know, play carriers 316 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 6: and guns guys. They're just like the you know, they 317 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 6: work in the office and decide whether you get to 318 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 6: move here or not. You know, yeah, yeah, and they 319 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 6: were like very friendly and downright helpful. 320 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 2: Promos are settling in at Matt's place now, but it's 321 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: Matt explained, the struggle isn't over yet. 322 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 6: Now, Like our energy is more on how do we 323 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 6: help her make her case because she has an asylum 324 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 6: case that you know, she needs to win. And it's 325 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 6: you know, I'm not a lawyer, but wow, sounds like 326 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 6: what asylum is for literally running from a hostile government 327 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 6: that she was protesting and was going to jail and 328 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 6: torture her. Like what what is asylum for? If not 329 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 6: for that? 330 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: Of course, interacting with the asylum system has shown that 331 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: some of its absurdities, like the work permit clock for 332 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: our bus rides to riverside, the endless changing regulation. So 333 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: one has to navigate or trying to survive without the 334 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: ability to legally work. 335 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 6: In what way can you do this legally without some 336 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 6: you know group helping you, without like just somebody saying, fine, 337 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 6: I will take you and pay for your living expenses. 338 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 6: What is the legal way to like seek asylum. You 339 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 6: come here, they put you in jail. You stay in jail, 340 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 6: which is fucking jail. Yeah, they let you out of jail. Good, hooray, 341 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 6: we're out of jail, and now you're homeless. Yeah, you 342 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 6: have no possessions and no ability to legally work. At 343 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 6: least let them work. I mean, come on, just let 344 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 6: them get a legal job. That's just like the sort 345 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 6: of bureaucracy version of the forcing people across the desert. 346 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 4: It's like, well, okay, you won't die in the desert 347 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 4: in this one. 348 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 6: In this one, you will die or you will suffer 349 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 6: under homelessness. 350 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: More deterrence. 351 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 6: You know, everyone always says, oh, what I support an 352 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 6: immigration just got to be legal, you gotta do it 353 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 6: the right way. But they have no idea what they're 354 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 6: talking about, Like, what is the right way. I believe 355 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 6: everyone who says that has no idea what the right. 356 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 4: Way is. 357 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 2: Changing that making a law's line up with what anyone 358 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 2: would see is basic decency isn't coming anytime soon. In 359 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: the meantime, they have to navigate the asylum system. In 360 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 2: as many contradictions, Primer has never got any follow up 361 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: care for her leg injury. The only way she could 362 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: access care in her new home was once again totally 363 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: impractical for someone without a car, just another example of 364 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: how the system says peep it up to suffer and fail. 365 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 6: There's no way to get her to the doctor. Well, okay, 366 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 6: there is a way a way. Technically we could drive 367 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 6: like an hour and twenty minutes way out to this 368 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 6: place that like as a thing with the ice that 369 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 6: they will say like, well that's your approved like medical provider, Like, 370 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 6: I'm not gonna drive, just do some minor thing. Yeah, 371 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 6: So we pay out a pocket So we go to 372 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 6: a doctor and we go here's the problem we have. 373 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 4: We don't have insurance. 374 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 6: Let's get this done for as little money as possible, 375 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 6: because in the United States, if you don't have insurance. 376 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 4: It is going to costume. Yeah, it loves and mercifully. 377 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 4: My wife and I both know a number of doctors 378 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 4: that we can sort of run ideas by and if 379 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 4: we didn't have that, like, I don't know what we 380 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 4: would do. It would not be good. I mean, well 381 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 4: I know what we do. We would drive an hour 382 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 4: and twenty minutes to the place and we would just 383 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 4: be like, okay, doctor help. 384 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 6: But like, because you know, we have connections and we 385 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 6: are also willing to pay a little bit out of pocket. 386 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 4: She needed to get some medicine. Medicine is super expensive. Yeah, 387 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 4: so you go to. 388 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 6: The CBS and you're like, well, you know, oh, we 389 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 6: don't have your insurance on file, and we're like, I know, 390 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 6: but how much is this going to really cost? And dude, 391 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 6: drugs are so expensive? Like it's just. 392 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: What are what are those people supposed to do? 393 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: It's brokensistent and it's not when we can really rely 394 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: on goverment to change whoever is in office. 395 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 6: The Democrats don't have a great answer for this either. 396 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 6: I wish they did. I mean I will still vote 397 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 6: for them because they're at least less bad. You know, 398 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 6: what are the choices do you have? It's like, if 399 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 6: there was a better party, I would be that one 400 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 6: that I mean, if they had a chance of winning, right, yeah, yeah, 401 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,239 Speaker 6: no other party has a chance of winning so yeah, man, 402 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 6: I'm a Democrat, and I will help the Democrats try 403 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 6: to win elections. They push it in the direction that 404 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 6: it needs to go. But the Democrats are part of 405 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 6: the problem. I mean, like they're not radically changing policies 406 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 6: that would change this thing we've been talking about for 407 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 6: the last hour. 408 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: When I first moved to the US, jeoj W. Bush 409 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 2: as president. Soon after I got har Obama was elective 410 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: and it was Thanksgiving. I didn't know much about Thanksgiving, 411 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 2: and I didn't have much time history that overlooks set 412 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 2: like colonialism anyway. But the day before where it's riding 413 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: my bike down the coast and I ran into some 414 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: folks who were also riding their bikes. They asked what 415 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 2: plans I had for the next day, and I told 416 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 2: them I was just going to ride my bike all 417 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 2: day and that's what I like to do. They, having 418 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: just met me, invited me into their home and the 419 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 2: next day they fed me and we talked for hours 420 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: and became friends. A decade and a half later, on 421 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: the night before Thanksgiving, my friends cooked as many beans 422 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: as they could fit in their giant pot that we 423 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 2: boiled above a propane burn and made from half a 424 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: beer cake and the cold of the desert. Some Kurdish 425 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 2: guys helped us ladle out scoops of hot stew for 426 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 2: hundreds of people. I still don't go in for set 427 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: like colonism very much, but I felt thankful to be 428 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: in a position where I could welcome people now. That 429 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 2: same year, on Christmas Eve, I was sitting on the 430 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: tailgate of a pickup in the desert, kicking my feet 431 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: so my toes wouldn't burn with cold. I spent the 432 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 2: entire day building shelters for people out in the desert 433 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 2: left therefore up to a week by the Bide administration. 434 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: We'd handed out all off food again. But some folks 435 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: who've been taking care of their kids or trying to 436 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: find a warm place how the desert went to sleep 437 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 2: had missed out on eating. So I'd find a few 438 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 2: boxes of htrs, which are kind of like a worse 439 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 2: but vegan version of MREs, and I took them from 440 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 2: the truck and went over to the people who had 441 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 2: missed dinner. They heated them up somehow on a piece 442 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: of scrap metal over the fire. I can't really remember 443 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 2: them thinking it was really janky. I struggled to describe 444 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: how special it felt for me to be able to 445 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: share a little of the welcome I received with other 446 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,239 Speaker 2: people like Matt. I feel more hopeful knowing that not 447 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: only are other people just as upset as I am, 448 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: but that alongside those other people, I can do things 449 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 2: that I wouldn't have thought possible if I hadn't seen 450 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 2: them with my own eyes, had done them with my 451 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: own hands. From Obama to today, it's been up to 452 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 2: us to welcome migrants. Obama set records for deportation, Biden 453 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: beat them, albeit including Title forty two removals, and Trump 454 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 2: will probably beat both this year. In the meantime, it's 455 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 2: upt to regular people to help one another. That shouldn't 456 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 2: make us feel hopeless. It should make us feel strong. 457 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: Matt's doing something remarkable, but I don't think he was 458 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: in a very remarkable situation before. He was just a 459 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: person lucky enough to have some spare time and some 460 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: space to look after someone. But there are millions of 461 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: people like that in this country. There are millions of 462 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: people who are mad right now. The anger alone is 463 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: not going to help us take care of people. That's 464 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: what the priority should be right now. I don't want 465 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 2: to paint Matt as the only person who helped Primrose, 466 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: because hundreds of people helped Primrose from the Mberllane, the 467 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: Jungles of Panama, and her fellow migrants while she crossed 468 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: Daddy and Gap. People across a continent took their time 469 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: and their resources to help a stranger. I've heard of 470 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 2: this from countless migrants as well. Some of them rode 471 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: the train from southern Mexico up to the border, and 472 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: people threw them food and warm jumpers to total strangers 473 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 2: who they'd never met, who they'd never even get a 474 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: chance to see. Across thousands of miles. When states ignored 475 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: their suffering, the hundreds of migrants I have talked to 476 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: found food, shelter, and solidarity from ordinary people. And those 477 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: people in their own way benefited too. 478 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 6: It was enlightening to me that a I wasn't it 479 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 6: wasn't just me, Like, it's not just oh I for 480 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 6: some reason, I'm the only one who's like really upset 481 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 6: by all this. You know, there are other folks who 482 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 6: who are like this, but also just like a lot 483 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 6: of other people are absolutely willing to take risks, be 484 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 6: generous with their time and money, Like there's a lot 485 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 6: of them. There's a lot of people who like want 486 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 6: to help, and that kind of community aspect of it. 487 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 6: It was a surprise to me that the doing it 488 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 6: with other people was so powerful. Like I thought it 489 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 6: was just about the doing the actual act of helping 490 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 6: people somehow, but doing it with other people was just 491 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 6: surprisingly good. Made me feel much more optimistic about our 492 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 6: ability to get through this collectively. 493 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 4: I asked Matt what he wanted people to know about 494 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 4: his experience. 495 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I guess what I would like people 496 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 6: to know is it's not as hard as you might 497 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 6: think to help folks like primos, Like it sounds insurmountable, 498 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 6: like oh no, I'm exposed to all this risk and 499 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 6: danger and legal hassle or whatever. 500 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 4: But it's like it's not that complicated. 501 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 6: It's like they fill out a forum and it just 502 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 6: says like, oh, now I live here, and then once. 503 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: Prove it, then they live there. 504 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 2: The hot pot is finding someone, especially now that migrants 505 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: are more worried than ever to be out in the community. 506 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: Any database would be a risk to them. But maybe 507 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: that's not a problem that someone can solve. 508 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 6: It's kind of like an information sharing problem because like 509 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 6: these folks are all across the United States, and the 510 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 6: people who could host them are similarly. 511 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: All across the United States. But you don't have to 512 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 2: take someone into your home. There are hundreds of things 513 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: you can do wherever you are. You can feed people 514 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: who are hungry, pick up someone's kids from school, or 515 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 2: take their dogs for a walk, fix someone's car so 516 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: it doesn't get towed or ticketed, or drive someone to 517 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: a doctor's appointment. Creating safe communities for migrants is not 518 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: a distinct act from creating safe communities for everyone. I've 519 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: never been a big political theory reader, but I think 520 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: I've learned everything I need to know about politics in 521 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 2: refugee camps and the deserts and mountains and jungles that 522 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: migrants traverse to get to this country. In Panama, i 523 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 2: met with a priest who houses migrants. In California, I've 524 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 2: helped Seeks and Quaker friends hand out warm food in 525 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: the cold. We can come from a broad range of 526 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: perspectives and still get to the same place. When someone 527 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: needs help, you help them. And if we all do that, 528 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: then when we need help, someone will help us. You 529 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 2: don't have to wait four years to start You can 530 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: do it right now. While there are only some things 531 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: we can do in the face of a government that 532 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: doesn't want to help people like Primrose, there is an 533 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: awful lot that we can do. For all the people 534 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: who didn't make it to the USA from the jungle. 535 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: We can help the people who did. We can also 536 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 2: take this principle and make it a cornerstone of all 537 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: our politics. The more people come to know migrants, the 538 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: more they will see how broken our system is. The 539 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: more people who see that, the more people will demand change. 540 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: And I hope that they won't stop until we get 541 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: a system that doesn't look at little children who aren't 542 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: safe and say we don't want to help you, until 543 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: we get a system that doesn't make them walk across 544 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: jungles and through deserts before they even get a chance 545 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: to ask for help. Before I go, I thought I 546 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: would play a part of the interview I did with 547 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 2: Senor last year. I spoke to his son on Monday 548 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 2: and he said his dad's still doing well. 549 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 7: Truly, the migrants on this route are not here because 550 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 7: they want to be. They're here because the economy and 551 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 7: their country this is terrible or something. Everything is going 552 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 7: badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them knowing 553 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 7: that we won't, not us never. This is a belief 554 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 7: that we have. We are all children of God. God 555 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 7: made the world and humanity, and we are not that different. 556 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 7: We are all brothers. 557 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: I want to leave the that's word today to Premieres, 558 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 2: because really is the story about her and kid and 559 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: the incredible tenacity encourage they show to get here. 560 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 8: Even if I say again me and myself again say 561 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 8: thank you. I don't even know how to say thank you, 562 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 8: but I'm just God knows. God, please blease those people 563 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 8: put ins on me and Kim. I thought maybe I'm alone, 564 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 8: but I realize I'm not alone here if also people 565 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 8: who have me. 566 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: You guys, will helped me so much. 567 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 8: I never even get helped even in my country the 568 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 8: way I get helped in America. 569 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm really really glad. I'm very glad for 570 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: those people who helped me. 571 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 8: I have especially since when I was even in when 572 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 8: I was in Mexico. In my prayers, I just say, God, 573 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 8: just blame those people who putings on me. You make 574 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 8: me feel better, You put smile in my face and 575 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 8: even came when you came here. I wasn't even heavy 576 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 8: clothes to way nothing. They just only the clothes they 577 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 8: gave us in detention. When they tetainers that the clothes 578 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 8: I was leaving, I was when I want to wash 579 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 8: it was a T shirt jacket. 580 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: I just removed the top, then I washed. 581 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 8: The the inside the T shirt when it's dry. 582 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: Then I we bother and putting you. 583 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 8: And were like, but for now, I'm really really appreciated 584 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 8: a lot. I really appreciate a lot because my life 585 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 8: is like changing now. 586 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's like you were saying, things Kim. 587 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 4: Will have will be so different from the chances you had. Right. 588 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 2: She can she speaks English, she speaks Spanish, she can 589 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: go to school here. 590 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 591 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 4: Does that make you happy when you think about? 592 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 8: Yeah? Maybe even if I even told you, Kim, I 593 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 8: was asking you one day, I said, Kim, what if 594 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 8: I die today? She wasn't mentioning your name, said I 595 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 8: would just ask him maybe I can just go to school? 596 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wish. 597 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 8: Also she was like, Mammy, I want to write to 598 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 8: my book when I will stuty high school. I need 599 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 8: to write my total of my life because we have 600 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 8: been through a lot, but now we are happy. I 601 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 8: don't know unt to lie with your support. Guys, I'm 602 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 8: really appreciated. Yeah, because if you go to school, I'm happy. 603 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: I know she. I want you to heave a better life. 604 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it could Happen Here is a production of cool 605 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 3: Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit 606 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 3: our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on 607 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 608 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 3: you can now find sources for it could Happen here. 609 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 4: Listen directly in episode descriptions. 610 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.