WEBVTT - Shake My Sillies Out 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.280 I think for other problems we have in the world, 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.520 the solution still lies in our children and how what 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.200 tools we give them an how we teach them to 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.120 communicate with the world. This is Ziggy Marley. I really 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.919 love the guy because the man has heart. We approaching 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.279 with respect and approach and with the knowledge that if 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.880 we instill something in them and it's solidifies in them, 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.600 then that is what they're going to put out there. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.040 So to treat the children them as a part of 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.519 the process of making this world a better place. You know, 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.920 Ziggy believes that treating kids with respect is the backbone 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.839 of making the world a better place. Honestly, that reminds 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.560 me of Raffie. It's something Ziggy inherited from his father, 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.360 Bob Marley. My father had a lot of kids around. 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.680 We had just children, even not his children. I mean, 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:01.080 we can't learn a lot. That's why observing children recently 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.200 in the middle of the pandemic and Black Lives Matter protests, 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.959 Ziggy turned to his own kids for inspiration. I'm feeling 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.839 emotions about what's going on in the society, um racial injustice, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:13.640 and you know, the cool of it and the planet 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.760 and those things inspire me. To speak out and speak 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.000 out in music. But then my five years so you 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.440 know him, comes around with his Google Gaga thing and 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.240 he's like Google Gaga, Google Gaga, and I'm like, yeah, okay, 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.240 I'm writing a song called Google Gaga. Now that's awesome. 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.319 Ziggy emerged with a new kids album called More Family 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.520 Time and yes there's a song called Google Gaga. He's 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.840 one of the few singers I know who can successfully 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.759 cross from adult music in the kids songs and back again. Yes, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.720 someone said that to me, like, oh, yore, you just pivot. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.320 You just go from wanted that so seen this um, 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:55.760 you know, unless you want to be just with blindness. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.720 And none of us really are set in one way. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.480 So the duality of my of I can sing songs 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:04.440 like your pienis mind, but I also have a child 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.000 like part of me that wants to express itself too, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.919 and so I free that part of me without worrying 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.320 about ego are what you might think. It gives me 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.160 so much space to imagine. Yeah, I mean things would 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.359 be pretty miserable without that childlike inspiration it to be. Yeah, 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.160 Oh yeah, I need that chi, I need that childlike vibes. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.959 You know, it makes me laugh. It makes me have funny, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.520 it makes me be free. Yeah, I can feel it 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.440 when I'm playing with my daughter Sonny. I make goofy 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.560 faces to make her laugh and it's totally okay. Raffi 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.240 has always preached that we should make space for playing 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.760 our lives. But somewhere along the way, even ralf he 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.880 forgot to have fun. He abandoned his playful side that 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.799 urged to be silly. Doesn't die because we get older, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.480 We just get good at ignoring it. So why do 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.720 we value playfulness and children and beat it out of 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:10.079 ourselves when we become adults. I'm Chris Garcia and this 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.919 is Finding Raffie, a ten part series for My Heart 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:18.280 Radio and Fatherly in partnership with Rococo Punch, about the life, philosophy, 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.920 and the work of Raffie, the man behind the music. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.720 Today on our show, Rafie gets his Groove Back In 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.720 Raffie decided he wanted to stage a comeback. He hadn't 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.960 played to a young audience in four years, and he 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.240 was coming off a pretty rough period in his life. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.200 You'll remember that he and his wife deb had split 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.640 up and Evergreen ever Blew his ecology album aimed at 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.000 teens and adults. Was pretty much a bust. So Ralfie 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.000 goes back on tour and after a few months he 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:56.400 decides to go big. Thank you very much and hello everyone. 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.840 I've waited a long time him for this to be 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:10.120 here with you on Broadway. Now, playing on Broadway is huge. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.400 Raf He sold out six performances, but you could feel 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.279 his serious side battling it out with his playful side. Sure, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.840 Raffie sang some old favorites like Baby Beluga, but he 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.480 followed it up with descriptions of whales dying from toxic pollution. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.800 Then to lighten the mood, he did impersonations of Bob 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.080 Dylan and Elvis. You're just a little white wing on 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:43.080 the good Yeah, Blue, the Baby Babylon. This was a 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.560 new Raffi. He ditched the Hawaiian shirt and moccasin's for 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.960 a dresser and a tie, and in between songs he 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.800 incorporated a series of stage gangs. And that's when Raffie 0:04:53.880 --> 0:05:01.039 hit on something really big. You know now what picture 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:06.800 this Raffie gets a delivery on stage. It's a shopping bag. Oh, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:16.159 it says here, organically grown bananas. Mhm. Raffie reaches inside 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:23.440 and pulls out a banana. Hello, it's a banana phone, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:33.040 a phone with a peel. Here's a family that looks 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:41.520 like you could use a bananular phone. There's so many 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.000 reasons that I love this. As a comedian, I appreciate 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.120 the misdirect. It's an all time classic bit. There's got 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.800 your nose, pull my finger and using a random object 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.799 as a phone. It's this corny stage choke that plants 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.839 the seeds for one of Ralphie's greatest hits, one he 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.080 hasn't even written yet. So how many people does this 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:05.960 happen to you? You got a phone called nine in 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.279 the morning and rapp He says, okay, listen, I got 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:09.960 this thing. I picked up my guitar and I went 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:17.120 prett ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring ring. Banana phone. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.279 Musician Michael Creeper toured with Raffi during this period, and 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.120 he says, you know, what do you think? And I 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.640 don't even know it's worth anything or whatever. And I go, 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:31.320 I'm coming right over cold that thought, you know, because 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.560 it was brilliant. So I drove across town in my 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.400 volks like and bus and uh we sat there for 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.440 a full day in roping at the phone and basically 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:44.640 in a day on his kitchen table, Dong ding, dong ding. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.520 I never thought Banana Phone would becomes a most popular 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:55.240 rashy song. It's the best beats the rest cellular, modular, interactive, 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.560 bodge ring ring. Sure, a lot of the kids are 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.480 gonna listen to Banana Phone, and they won't hear all 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.400 the puns we put in there. Those are for adults, 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.479 but it doesn't really matter. The whole the song is 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.880 fun no matter who listens to it. I mean, that's 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.760 all we did. We just created puns the whole song. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.760 Dog up phone, Grandpa phone and a brama phone too. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:20.080 Oh yeah, my cell you learn bana, you learn fool. 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.360 That playableness was good for us because we had fun 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.560 writing it and performing it. It's a phone would appeal, 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.520 and we do feel that those messages are eternal. You 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.400 can have your phone and need it too. Kids need 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.000 to know that it's okay. They need permission to play, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:44.360 you know, in their world, and adults too. We need that. Todd. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.000 Banana Phone is the moment that Raphie puts kids back 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.840 in the center of it all. Using a banana as 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.520 an imaginary phone is a wonderful former pretend play and 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.880 then making a song about it. Then the play becomes musical, 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.760 becomes a playful musical experience for the young child. You 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.400 can feel the same energy from his first album single 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.000 Bowl Songs, when he was just having fun and not 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:22.160 caring about what people thought. Ralphie said he felt light 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.240 and playful again. These were some of his favorite concerts ever. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.040 His parents Arto and Lucy noticed the change in Raffi two. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.120 There was something in his voice that moved them both. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:38.480 In his autobiography, Rafi wrote that his ailing father listened 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.200 to the album every day, doing his exercises to the music, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:50.160 and Lucy danced to it with a family dog. Rafe's 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.040 returned to playfulness was the key to his big comeback. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.920 The puns and basic silliness of Bananaphone allowed him to 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.880 embrace the kidlike side of himself that he'd forgotten. But 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.280 how do the rest of us do that? Can we 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.480 change something so ingrained in our society? Do we even 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.560 know how? I think so many of us have a 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.880 hard time going back to these like playful, happy attitudes. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.800 We're working and we're worried about our kids. When can 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:21.600 get dinner on the table, and rent is do and 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.120 so on, And I think there's just this idea that 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.440 that's silly stuff, you know, that's the stuff you give up, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:40.000 you know, once you get a real adult job. You know. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.160 I think when we, you know, forego playfulness, we do 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.000 it at our own cost. Dr Lori Santos is a 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.600 professor of psychology at Yale University and the host of 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.240 the Happiness Lab podcast. She teaches one of Yale's most 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:59.280 popular courses. It's known as the Happiness Class. The scientios 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.880 we'd be more productive at work if we engaged in 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.720 more playful practices. We'd end up being like more interesting 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.000 to friends. We'd have hobbies and things to talk about 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.240 with people. So it concrease our social connection, which also 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.000 can increase our well being. Every available study of happy 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.719 people suggest that happy people are more social right, they 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.320 prioritize time with their friends and family members, and they 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.360 really try to connect with the people around them. It's funny. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.800 The first song on Rafe's first album single, Songs for 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.120 the Very Young, is the more we get together, the 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.760 happier will be. It's like straight out of the positive psychology, 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.200 you know. It could be a title of a like 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.640 journal paper and then feel the positive psychology. The more 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:45.040 we get together together together, the more we get together 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.439 happy be because your friends are my friends and my 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:55.040 friends are your friends. The more we get together happy, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.920 you will be. Lorie isn't just a professor at yet. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.040 She also lives on campus. She's ahead of college, which 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.920 means she's kind of like a dorm mom. Laurie eats 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.480 her meals with students, and she's there to experience the 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.640 ups and downs of college life. When I took on 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.320 that new role, I was expecting college to be, you know, 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.640 fun and parties. What I wasn't expecting to see was 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:28.559 the mental health crisis up close and personal, with so 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.800 many students reporting that they feel depressed and anxious, and 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.559 even ones that weren't you know, having like diagnosed mental 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.800 health condition were still just stressed and kind of fast 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:39.760 forwarding life, you know, and ask students like how's it 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.800 going to be, Like, oh, I can just fast forward 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.720 to mid terms or if I can just get like 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:48.920 to the weekend, And it's like, you only get four years, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.360 you know, for our five years of college, right, you know, 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.320 if you're lev seven, you only get seven years of college. 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.160 You know, it just felt so sad that they were 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.880 kind of watching them fast forward through. And so my 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.960 interest in the happiness stuff came out of wanting to 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.480 teach my students some better strategies, right I did. I 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.080 didn't like seeing them so depressed and anxious, and I 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:18.200 really wanted to help. And I realized, you know, this 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.959 is such a universal problem where we feel like we're 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.320 not doing it well. And if you're a parent, you know, 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.480 it becomes an even worse universal problem because you're thinking 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.800 not just about your own happiness, but what you can 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.400 do to ensure that your kids are happy too. How 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.320 do we get this back as adults if we become 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.679 unhappier as we age. Yeah, I think, you know, this 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.679 is actually something that I think about a lot, and 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.439 the fact that I've been working on a lot, because 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.120 you know, I sometimes pontificate and give all this advice 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:48.080 about happiness that I'm not necessarily following myself. And one 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.600 thing I realized often causes me not to have fun 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.040 is that I'm just too hard on myself. Right, It's 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.000 hard for me to take a playful attitude because I'm 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.760 just so scared I'm not going to be perfect or 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.360 mess up or you know, sometimes fun things require being 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.880 a beginner. Learning some new game or some new skill 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.840 can be fun, but not if you're like I have 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.080 to be perfect. Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed, like 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.720 how am I not perfect? And so I think the 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.000 first step to dealing with that is to not worry 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.040 about other people, because they're not usually as bad as 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.760 you are. Judging yourself anyway, it's to work on your 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.840 own self compassion. You know, that really resonates with me 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.080 as a stand up comedian because everything I do is 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.520 based on people's reactions, but it's never as terrible as 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.400 the reaction I have afterwards. Like after a I'll think 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.880 I was like, oh my gosh, I bombed. People will go, hey, 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.079 that was really great. They will sincerely say it was great, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.320 But inside I'm like, oh that was terrible. Um, well, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.240 why why am I doing this? Doctor? Why do I 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.080 do this to myself? Why did I choose to risk 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.040 public humiliation as a career. You know the theme of 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.520 so many of these things in this happiness field is 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.400 that our minds lie to us. We think you're being 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.360 so hard on yourself because it's going to make you better, 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.760 you know, if not harsh on yourself, if you give 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.679 yourself the benefit of the doubt, you're just not going 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.960 to be a good comedian. Right. We think we have 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.000 to be this you mean, integral sergeant to ourselves to 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.920 get anything done, to be good at anything. But again, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.319 this is a spot where if you look at the 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.040 scientific literature, it shows that our intuition here is just wrong. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.040 Researchers in the field of self compassion actually looked at 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.280 veterans from Afghanistan and taught them, you know, ways of 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.880 being more self compassionate. And what they found is that 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.160 these veterans who experienced self compassion are less likely to 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.840 develop something like PTSD, you know, they're less likely to 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.040 be anxious after ward. So interesting. My my parents have 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.200 gone through a lot of trauma, and especially my mom, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.600 and they've been through so much together. You know, my 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.480 dad was a political prisoner. He had some mental health 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.040 issues the last ten years of his life. He had 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.000 Alzheimer's disease until he finally passed away about four years ago. 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.400 And my mom is so resilient she could still find 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.400 humor in any situation. We're at the funeral home after 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.320 my dad dies. We're sad, and my mom asked the 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.040 person there if they offer a senior discount, and we 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.600 just all start laughing, and she's always she is the 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.960 Queen of gallows humor. What is it about finding humor 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.600 or laughter in the darkest moments? Yeah, well, I think 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:17.800 it's you know, it's just a way of kind of 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.960 shifting your perspective. And this is something you know that 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.440 so much of the research shows. It's also something that 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.200 I think a lot of really very wise ancient traditions 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.680 showed us too. You know. The Buddhists had this wonderful 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.520 parable that they call the parable of the second Arrow. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.239 The way it goes is that Buddha asks his disciples, 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:42.600 you know, if a guy's walking down the street and 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.480 he gets shot with an arrow, is that bad? Disciple say, yeah, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.600 it sucks to get shot with an arrow, And Buddha asked, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.080 you know, is it worse to get shot with a 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.760 second arrow? You imagine, like you know, arrow number two 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.680 comes and strikes you again, is that worse? People say, yeah, that, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.640 you know sucks twice as much to give us, you know, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.560 struck with you arrows, And Buddhist as you know, the 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.520 first arrow is life. That's your circumstances. That's what they 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.920 call duca. That's suffering. You can't avoid that, right, that's 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.000 the you get alzheimer, as you get deaths in life. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:15.440 You have bad circumstances. But the second arrow is your 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.200 reaction to it. And Buddha says, you know, the second 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.200 arrow is the most painful one because it's shot by ourselves. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.520 Like whenever we get hit with the second arrow, it's 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.520 us reacting in a bad way, and it's worth remembering 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:32.360 that we can always control our second arrow. You know, 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.520 this kind of advice for me has been really powerful 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.160 because there's so many times in our life when our 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:51.080 misery is caused by us. Listening to Laurie, it explains 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.080 so much about my mom, and it made me wonder 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.640 about Raffie too. He's also always found his way back 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.600 to a playful place, even if it was it nurtured 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:05.159 in his childhood. No one had to encourage it. It 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.439 was just there, as it is in all children, you know. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:14.919 I think maybe the more interesting question is who discouraged it. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.720 Let's put it this way. There were many adults in 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.680 my life as a child who didn't quite appreciate how 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.520 the needs for play was so strong within me as 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.240 a as a child. But that's a long, long conversation. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:41.320 It's it's not easy to put it into a short answer. Um, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:58.520 I don't know what else to say at the moment, Hey, Tony, 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.959 how's it going. It's going well. Gosh, you sound so 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.560 good and I do not sound good. I don't know 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.480 you should hear it from this vantage point, it sounds great, good. God. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.080 I need a lot of affirmation, constant affirmation, so do 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.320 I actually, But thank you so much for talking to 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.359 me this morning and taking the time. There are a 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.080 few people who get paid to be playful and do 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.960 it with such fun abandoned like Tony Hale. You probably 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.159 know Tony as Buster Bluth from Arrested Development and Gary 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.480 Walsh on Veep. In real life, he's a dad to 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.040 his teenage daughter Lloyd. I wanted to talk to Tony 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.919 because it's his job to be America's man child, so 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.440 he's got to be the guy who knows how to 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.720 keep that kid like feeling alive into adulthood. It's so 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.119 funny because there's such a playful side in the characters 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.480 that you've played. And um, I'm wondering if that's if 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.400 that's just who you are. Are you like, where does 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.639 that come from? Um? I think yeah. I mean I 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.600 will say, like Buster and Gary, there's a I think 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.320 there's an anxiety through line. When I was a kid, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.639 I was very anxious. I was an asthmatic kid, and 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.479 I had a lot of anxiety around that. And I 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:11.960 think I was when I was a kid, I just 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.640 wanted everybody to like me and a lot of people 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.720 pleasing stuff. And I had panic attacks when I was 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.000 a kid. And so even though that sucked walking through 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.159 that as a kid, it's been it is nice to 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.199 kind of bring it into your work, like, I know what, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.239 I know what a panic attack feels like, I know 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.879 I know what severe anxiety can how that can manifest. 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.439 And so it's nice to kind of have that history. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.040 Even though it's not something that I struggle with as 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.040 much as I used to, I really kind of relate 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.960 to this anxiety, you know, and I am so cautious 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.800 of it and I really don't want to like pass 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.560 it down to my daughter, you know. And so even 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.480 though when I'm with her, I do feel a great 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.920 sense of calm uh and peace, then I I don't 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.200 know I've ever felt like it's just such a warm 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.560 and beautiful feeling. But some days I look at the 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.879 front page to the newspaper, um and it seems like 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.320 it's going to end today, you know, And so of course, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.679 of course, yeah, um, how do you, like, do you 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:13.679 talk to your daughter about these big issues that are 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.440 going on in the world, like climate change or the pandemic, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.639 or even anxiety. How do I navigate this? Yeah, and 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:29.600 it's it is hard. You've obviously heard of helicopter parenting. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.959 That's a very common term. But there's a new one 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:36.679 I've heard called snowplow parenting, where you you just you 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.959 just try to remove all challenges in front of them 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.920 because you don't want them to walk through anything, which, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:43.760 by the way, I completely get. I don't want my 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:45.760 daughter to be in pain. I don't want her to 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.680 have anxiety. I don't want I don't want to be challenged. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.400 I want to remove all challenges so that she has 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.919 a very easy and smooth path. The fact is, like 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:56.520 you and I are who we are because of what 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.640 we've been through, and so I have to I want 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.280 so bad to fix and be like, Okay, this is 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.480 how you can get around that challenge. This is how 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.720 you can take this, you know, shortcut, and it's like no, 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.000 I mean I gotta sit and listen and understand and 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.760 allow her to walk through it. And that is really hard. 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:17.399 It's really hard. How do you harness fun in spite 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.920 of all the crap that's out there? Like what, like, 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.480 what has it done for you to find happiness or 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.479 laughter even in these dark moments? Yeah? I mean, this 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.919 has obviously been a very challenging two years for so 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.760 many people. But at the same time, I think it 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.040 has it has forced me to slow down and even 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:42.199 though it's been very frustrating, Like my daughter and I 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.840 have kind of watch movies. We try to watch movies 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:50.080 outside I don't know, Like we watch YouTube videos together 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.120 and just I cannot it makes me laugh so hard. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.440 There's these YouTube videos of like people going on these 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.879 roller coaster rides and screaming and her and I just like, 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:04.840 how there's this one YouTube of it's really gross, but 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.680 these have you seen that YouTube about the parents and 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:10.480 if they're in the bathroom and they asked their kid 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.440 to get them toilet paper and the kid comes in, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.000 comes in with toilet paper and then they put in 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.119 the tela on their arms, as they're walking away and 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.800 then they're and then they're like, oh my gosh, oh no, 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.080 and these kids, these kids are like and they just 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.200 absolutely lose it. It is the funny thing. I'll take 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:33.199 that over any sitcom and so like we just like 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.760 try to find stuff like that and laugh. Did you 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.399 play a lot of music for your daughter when she 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.680 was growing up? Yeah, we did, and we we always 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.040 love when she was little. I missed those times we 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.720 would little. We would always go to those play spaces 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.280 and with other parents and you'd sit around a circle 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.560 and you'd sing the songs. And when I was youtubeing 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.520 Raffie last night, just those kids and that kind of 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.919 five to six range where they don't give any crap 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.160 about what people think of them or if it's cool 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.199 or anything like that, and they just fully engage and 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.399 then he engages back. It's that age is a really 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.439 really beautiful age. It's so cool. We just actually started 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.800 taking my daughter to a music class on Monday mornings 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.240 and as soon as um, you know, the teacher of 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:24.160 the musician starts playing like she goes bonkers, and it's 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:27.280 like so free. She she's not self conscious at all. 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:31.200 She starts like wiggling and throwing your arms up, and 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:36.520 it's such a beautiful and pure thing um to watch. Yeah, 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.399 and it's it. Actually it actually switches now and my 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:42.040 donors fifteen. So now I do all those actions and 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:47.320 she's humiliated by it, just like I was never humiliated 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.040 by my challenge. She was young, but now I'm like 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.240 the freak and she's like, you really need to just 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:56.280 settle down. I couldn't let Tony go without getting his 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.560 take on Banana Phone. I just want to sit here 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.280 and list and two Raffi song Banana Phone with you 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:10.040 ring ring ring, ring, ring, ring ring, Banana Phone. I 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:12.280