1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,921 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,041 --> 00:01:32,721 Speaker 2: I'm in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, trying to investigate the case 13 00:01:32,761 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: of nine year old Christina Pipkin, who went missing from 14 00:01:35,561 --> 00:01:38,321 Speaker 2: her home on Doty Street in May of nineteen ninety one. 15 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,361 Speaker 2: I'm with Amy Tubbs, whose father in law was a 16 00:01:41,401 --> 00:01:44,481 Speaker 2: suspect in the case, Denise who's a friend to the families, 17 00:01:44,481 --> 00:01:48,361 Speaker 2: who's been investigating this case for several years, and Denise's friend. 18 00:01:49,121 --> 00:01:52,641 Speaker 2: We've been driving around town for a while now, and 19 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: the whole town seems to be talking about this case. 20 00:01:56,041 --> 00:02:00,001 Speaker 2: Hickory Ridge is pretty small right now. The population is 21 00:02:00,041 --> 00:02:03,201 Speaker 2: between one and two hundred people. Needless to say, the 22 00:02:03,361 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: entire town has been talking about the Christina Pipkin case. 23 00:02:06,321 --> 00:02:08,721 Speaker 2: Our investigation has even made the local radio. 24 00:02:09,561 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: Catherine Townsend, host of the Hell and Gone podcast, is 25 00:02:13,841 --> 00:02:17,321 Speaker 3: investigating the nineteen ninety one kidnapping and murderer of nine 26 00:02:17,361 --> 00:02:21,601 Speaker 3: year old Christina Pipkin and Hickory Ridge. Pipkin was kidnapping, 27 00:02:21,761 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: killed on me. 28 00:02:22,641 --> 00:02:25,481 Speaker 2: Christina was selling jewelry door to door for a school 29 00:02:25,481 --> 00:02:28,761 Speaker 2: fundraiser on May fourth, nineteen ninety one, when she disappeared 30 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,921 Speaker 2: without a trace. Three days later, Christina's body was found 31 00:02:33,001 --> 00:02:36,081 Speaker 2: in cal Lake Ditch, a body of water about three 32 00:02:36,121 --> 00:02:40,881 Speaker 2: point five miles from her home. Police suspected foul play, 33 00:02:41,401 --> 00:02:44,241 Speaker 2: but they haven't commented on the manner of death and 34 00:02:44,281 --> 00:02:46,361 Speaker 2: when Amy and I got the case file from the 35 00:02:46,441 --> 00:02:50,121 Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police after our four requests were granted, the 36 00:02:50,121 --> 00:02:54,921 Speaker 2: autopsy was not included. Over thirty years later, this case 37 00:02:55,041 --> 00:02:59,401 Speaker 2: is still unsolved. There's very little hard evidence in this case. 38 00:03:00,001 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: With a lot of witnesses dead or missing, it can 39 00:03:02,561 --> 00:03:05,881 Speaker 2: sometimes feel like we're chasing ghosts. We'll pull up to 40 00:03:05,921 --> 00:03:09,721 Speaker 2: buildings and find vacant lots. We knock on a lot 41 00:03:09,721 --> 00:03:12,041 Speaker 2: of wrong doors, and we've run into a lot of 42 00:03:12,081 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: dead ends, but we are making progress. In our last episode, 43 00:03:17,601 --> 00:03:20,281 Speaker 2: we track down the last place where Christina Pipkin was 44 00:03:20,281 --> 00:03:23,921 Speaker 2: seen alive, the Bearcat Grocery Store on the main drive 45 00:03:23,961 --> 00:03:26,961 Speaker 2: of Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. It shares a parking lot with 46 00:03:27,001 --> 00:03:30,521 Speaker 2: a Cross County bank. In a case where rumors have 47 00:03:30,601 --> 00:03:34,241 Speaker 2: been flying for three decades, it's hard to separate fact 48 00:03:34,241 --> 00:03:37,801 Speaker 2: from fiction, but we do have two things that we 49 00:03:37,881 --> 00:03:41,801 Speaker 2: know for sure. One that Christina was last seen by 50 00:03:41,881 --> 00:03:45,241 Speaker 2: multiple witnesses in the area of the Bearcat Convenience store 51 00:03:45,241 --> 00:03:48,761 Speaker 2: in the bank, and two the location where her body 52 00:03:48,801 --> 00:03:49,241 Speaker 2: was dumped. 53 00:03:50,081 --> 00:03:52,161 Speaker 4: We need to go to that site. 54 00:03:52,201 --> 00:03:55,321 Speaker 2: We need to go to cow Lake Ditch, so we 55 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:59,521 Speaker 2: head out Route forty two toward Bedeville to the spot 56 00:03:59,521 --> 00:04:04,761 Speaker 2: where Christina's body was found in the water. I'm Catherine Townsend. 57 00:04:05,321 --> 00:04:07,241 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 58 00:04:07,321 --> 00:04:09,801 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 59 00:04:09,881 --> 00:04:12,401 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight 60 00:04:12,841 --> 00:04:17,121 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. This is Helen 61 00:04:17,161 --> 00:05:11,841 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. In our last episode, we tracked down 62 00:05:11,881 --> 00:05:14,841 Speaker 2: the cashier who worked at the Bearcat grocery store on 63 00:05:14,881 --> 00:05:17,601 Speaker 2: May fourth in nineteen ninety one, the night when Christina 64 00:05:17,641 --> 00:05:21,001 Speaker 2: Pipkin went missing. Police did talk to the other three 65 00:05:21,041 --> 00:05:24,521 Speaker 2: employees who were on the job that day, but according 66 00:05:24,521 --> 00:05:26,921 Speaker 2: to the case file, either they didn't see the stranger 67 00:05:27,441 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 2: or they were gone by the time he came in 68 00:05:29,121 --> 00:05:33,281 Speaker 2: the store, even though they don't think they saw anything. 69 00:05:33,401 --> 00:05:35,841 Speaker 2: I'm really hoping that we'll get in touch with us, because, 70 00:05:36,161 --> 00:05:39,681 Speaker 2: as we've said many times before, the interviews that the 71 00:05:39,681 --> 00:05:43,921 Speaker 2: police did were very brief. One tiny detail can be 72 00:05:44,041 --> 00:05:47,401 Speaker 2: the thing that makes this case change course. We're looking 73 00:05:47,441 --> 00:05:50,681 Speaker 2: for all of those missing pieces. The cashier who we 74 00:05:50,721 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: talked to gave us the composite drawing the ones she 75 00:05:53,561 --> 00:05:56,281 Speaker 2: did with the Arkansas State Police. It's been in her 76 00:05:56,281 --> 00:06:00,041 Speaker 2: safe for over thirty years. She described a brown car 77 00:06:00,321 --> 00:06:02,561 Speaker 2: that the stranger who came in the Bearcat that day 78 00:06:02,641 --> 00:06:06,361 Speaker 2: was driving. The image that we saw in the composite 79 00:06:06,361 --> 00:06:09,841 Speaker 2: photo looked very similar to photos of Robbie Tubbs back 80 00:06:09,881 --> 00:06:13,081 Speaker 2: in the day. But I want to be clear, his 81 00:06:13,281 --> 00:06:15,881 Speaker 2: being there, even if it's confirmed have been him, does 82 00:06:15,921 --> 00:06:19,241 Speaker 2: not mean that Robbie Tubbs did anything wrong. There were 83 00:06:19,321 --> 00:06:22,721 Speaker 2: several other people in the Bearcat store that night. Based 84 00:06:22,721 --> 00:06:24,881 Speaker 2: on what we're seeing, it seems like half the town 85 00:06:24,961 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: passed through there that day. We need more information. One 86 00:06:32,801 --> 00:06:35,241 Speaker 2: of the other cashiers who's working at the Bearcat that 87 00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:39,041 Speaker 2: night has called me back. This person did not want 88 00:06:39,041 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: me to use her name, but she said she was 89 00:06:41,361 --> 00:06:44,721 Speaker 2: working at the register between around them six and seven 90 00:06:44,801 --> 00:06:50,601 Speaker 2: pm on May fourth. She vividly remembers Christina Pipkin coming 91 00:06:50,601 --> 00:06:52,281 Speaker 2: into the store that night, and I think that the 92 00:06:52,281 --> 00:06:54,921 Speaker 2: information she has could be crucial. 93 00:06:55,321 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 4: Here's what she said. 94 00:06:57,041 --> 00:06:59,241 Speaker 5: I was at one of the registers, and I'm not 95 00:06:59,281 --> 00:07:02,001 Speaker 5: sure if I was bagging for someone, if I was 96 00:07:02,041 --> 00:07:03,321 Speaker 5: actually running the register. 97 00:07:03,521 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 6: At seems like I was running the register. 98 00:07:05,761 --> 00:07:11,161 Speaker 5: And Christina walked in and nevertheless the carpet or the mat. 99 00:07:11,041 --> 00:07:13,761 Speaker 6: The stores have, but she just walked out the door 100 00:07:13,801 --> 00:07:14,801 Speaker 6: and stood there. 101 00:07:15,281 --> 00:07:18,121 Speaker 5: And we said, hey, Christina was up. I do not 102 00:07:18,361 --> 00:07:22,121 Speaker 5: remember any kind of paper or pencil in her hands. 103 00:07:21,681 --> 00:07:24,961 Speaker 6: Because I remember it was odd. You know, normally kids 104 00:07:25,041 --> 00:07:28,041 Speaker 6: just like are not scared of my thumb, and they 105 00:07:28,041 --> 00:07:28,641 Speaker 6: would have talked. 106 00:07:29,001 --> 00:07:31,041 Speaker 5: I feel like I should have been felling jewelry at 107 00:07:31,041 --> 00:07:31,481 Speaker 5: that point. 108 00:07:31,561 --> 00:07:34,681 Speaker 6: She would have asked us. But that's beside the point. 109 00:07:34,721 --> 00:07:36,641 Speaker 5: At the time I saw her, I did not know 110 00:07:36,841 --> 00:07:39,641 Speaker 5: she was felling jewelry. That was later, but she you know, 111 00:07:39,761 --> 00:07:43,281 Speaker 5: was hey, what's up? And she just kind of shrugg 112 00:07:43,321 --> 00:07:43,641 Speaker 5: and read. 113 00:07:43,841 --> 00:07:45,921 Speaker 6: I don't think anything was in her hands, because I 114 00:07:45,961 --> 00:07:48,001 Speaker 6: can remember the expression on her face. 115 00:07:47,761 --> 00:07:52,161 Speaker 5: So clearly, and she just kind of shrugged and you 116 00:07:52,201 --> 00:07:54,161 Speaker 5: know how little girls of those shrugs in her hands 117 00:07:54,161 --> 00:07:56,961 Speaker 5: in the air, you know, just like she didn't have a. 118 00:07:56,921 --> 00:07:57,561 Speaker 6: Look of fear. 119 00:07:58,681 --> 00:08:01,641 Speaker 5: I can see her expression in my mind when I 120 00:08:01,641 --> 00:08:02,401 Speaker 5: shut my eyes. 121 00:08:03,321 --> 00:08:07,001 Speaker 6: It was a fear. It was more like, hell. 122 00:08:08,241 --> 00:08:13,601 Speaker 5: No, why stepped in? It was just I mean, she 123 00:08:13,721 --> 00:08:17,961 Speaker 5: smiled and just turned around. 124 00:08:17,761 --> 00:08:18,241 Speaker 6: And walked down. 125 00:08:19,881 --> 00:08:23,841 Speaker 2: I would still love to talk to anyone else, employees 126 00:08:24,081 --> 00:08:26,441 Speaker 2: or people who were in the Bearcat store that night. 127 00:08:29,041 --> 00:08:31,481 Speaker 2: So in the meantime, let's go forward in time to 128 00:08:31,561 --> 00:08:34,921 Speaker 2: May seventh, the day when Christina's body was found in 129 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:35,801 Speaker 2: cal Lake Ditch. 130 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:37,121 Speaker 6: Yeah. 131 00:08:37,121 --> 00:08:39,281 Speaker 2: It's actually a good body dumb place, but not a 132 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,761 Speaker 2: good swimming place, you know what I mean? 133 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:43,641 Speaker 4: Yeah, because say it one time it was they thought 134 00:08:43,641 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: it was a swimming well. They said that people. 135 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:52,001 Speaker 2: Have We've looked at this location a lot on Google Maps, 136 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,361 Speaker 2: but sometimes you have to go to the source. 137 00:08:54,441 --> 00:08:55,681 Speaker 4: You have to go to the site. 138 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,401 Speaker 2: See if you look at that value on the map, 139 00:08:59,441 --> 00:09:05,441 Speaker 2: two runs. Yeah, and when those fields are. 140 00:09:05,481 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 5: What it like it. 141 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: Janes is, Amy, Denise and I took a ride out 142 00:09:10,481 --> 00:09:13,401 Speaker 2: to Calaike Ditch. We were trying to figure out where 143 00:09:13,481 --> 00:09:16,241 Speaker 2: Christina's body had been dumped and to see if the 144 00:09:16,241 --> 00:09:18,801 Speaker 2: location could tell us anything about what happened to her. 145 00:09:19,761 --> 00:09:21,401 Speaker 4: It's like down here, there's water down here. 146 00:09:21,601 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it as you can hear. Its windy 147 00:09:26,081 --> 00:09:30,321 Speaker 2: and clear and cold. Right now. It's a sunny day. 148 00:09:31,161 --> 00:09:33,961 Speaker 2: The ditch is low and the water is flowing pretty slowly. 149 00:09:34,641 --> 00:09:37,001 Speaker 2: But we discussed the fact that if there had been 150 00:09:37,121 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: rained recently, the current could get super strong, like it 151 00:09:40,561 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: was on the day Christina's body was found. 152 00:09:43,241 --> 00:09:46,681 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is melon nowhere. Man, there's just you know, 153 00:09:46,681 --> 00:09:48,241 Speaker 4: when you hear about it, you're like, oh, maybe it's 154 00:09:48,241 --> 00:09:49,881 Speaker 4: like a local swimming hall, you know what I mean. 155 00:09:50,161 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 5: But this is late huh huh. 156 00:09:55,481 --> 00:09:57,521 Speaker 2: As we said in the last episode, we did not 157 00:09:57,601 --> 00:09:59,881 Speaker 2: get any access to the autopsy report as part of 158 00:09:59,921 --> 00:10:02,921 Speaker 2: the case file, but we did get documents filed by 159 00:10:03,001 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: Robbie Tubbs's defense lawyer and In those documents, he refers 160 00:10:06,721 --> 00:10:09,641 Speaker 2: to forensic testing that was done on Christina's body. 161 00:10:09,761 --> 00:10:10,921 Speaker 4: It showed that the. 162 00:10:10,801 --> 00:10:14,081 Speaker 2: Water and mud in her lungs matched the water from 163 00:10:14,121 --> 00:10:17,401 Speaker 2: cal Lake Ditch. We also got a few more details 164 00:10:17,441 --> 00:10:19,801 Speaker 2: from the case file that came from the autopsy report. 165 00:10:20,641 --> 00:10:24,361 Speaker 2: Doctor Fammi Malik, the medical examiner at the time, indicated 166 00:10:24,401 --> 00:10:28,681 Speaker 2: that there was obvious decomposition. He believed that Christina had 167 00:10:28,721 --> 00:10:31,521 Speaker 2: been in the water for about three days, meaning that 168 00:10:31,561 --> 00:10:34,361 Speaker 2: she was not kidnapped and kept somewhere else. For example, 169 00:10:34,801 --> 00:10:37,961 Speaker 2: she was almost certainly dumped there or fell in there 170 00:10:38,041 --> 00:10:42,001 Speaker 2: on the day she went missing. Doctor Malick also said 171 00:10:42,001 --> 00:10:44,841 Speaker 2: there were no signs of strangulation. He said he'd X 172 00:10:44,921 --> 00:10:47,601 Speaker 2: ray the body from outside and inside. He found no 173 00:10:47,721 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: stab wounds, no obvious cuts or bruises. He also told 174 00:10:51,641 --> 00:10:54,961 Speaker 2: investigators Christina's body had a blood alcohol level of point 175 00:10:55,121 --> 00:10:59,641 Speaker 2: zero three percent, but he attributed that to the decomposition 176 00:10:59,721 --> 00:11:03,721 Speaker 2: of the body. Blood alcohol level can rise as a 177 00:11:03,801 --> 00:11:09,041 Speaker 2: side effect of the decomposition process. Other than that the 178 00:11:09,081 --> 00:11:12,841 Speaker 2: toxicology report, We're not quite sure what tests they performed 179 00:11:12,841 --> 00:11:16,081 Speaker 2: in that talk screening, but according to what doctor Malick 180 00:11:16,161 --> 00:11:19,361 Speaker 2: said in the case file, the results of those tests 181 00:11:19,361 --> 00:11:24,161 Speaker 2: seemed normal. There was mud found in Christina's stomach. There 182 00:11:24,161 --> 00:11:28,641 Speaker 2: were also pickles and carrots found. Investigators asked doctor Malick 183 00:11:28,641 --> 00:11:30,881 Speaker 2: if he could figure out what had happened to Christina. 184 00:11:31,961 --> 00:11:35,081 Speaker 2: Doctor Malick quote was emphatic he could find no other 185 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,481 Speaker 2: cause of death other than drowning end quote. But when 186 00:11:39,481 --> 00:11:42,441 Speaker 2: they asked him about the possibility, for example, that she 187 00:11:42,481 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: could have been smothered or choked to the point of unconsciousness, 188 00:11:46,561 --> 00:11:49,241 Speaker 2: doctor Malick said he didn't have enough information to know 189 00:11:49,401 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: how to answer that for sure. The report reads quote 190 00:11:53,441 --> 00:11:56,081 Speaker 2: when given the supposition that one could smother an individual 191 00:11:56,121 --> 00:11:58,961 Speaker 2: to the point of unconscious and then throw that person 192 00:11:59,001 --> 00:12:02,481 Speaker 2: into the river, Doctor Mallet could make no comment regarding this, 193 00:12:02,921 --> 00:12:07,921 Speaker 2: but said that this was a possibility end quote. I 194 00:12:07,961 --> 00:12:10,761 Speaker 2: know it's frustrating not to have access to the autopsy report, 195 00:12:10,801 --> 00:12:13,601 Speaker 2: but again, we're like Sherlock Holmes here, we're trying to 196 00:12:13,681 --> 00:12:17,321 Speaker 2: rule out the impossible and see what possibilities were left with. 197 00:12:18,001 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: So we have ruled out the possibility that Christina drowned 198 00:12:21,841 --> 00:12:26,121 Speaker 2: somewhere else. Whatever happened to Christina Pipkin happened out here 199 00:12:26,561 --> 00:12:30,721 Speaker 2: in this ditch. So what we know is this cause 200 00:12:30,761 --> 00:12:38,241 Speaker 2: of death drowning, Manner of death undetermined. Christina's body was 201 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: found about a mile and a half west of the 202 00:12:40,401 --> 00:12:46,761 Speaker 2: Jackson and Cross County lines on State Highway forty two. Amy, 203 00:12:46,881 --> 00:12:48,841 Speaker 2: Denise and I pull up to the address we have 204 00:12:49,001 --> 00:12:50,281 Speaker 2: for a man named mister White. 205 00:12:50,441 --> 00:12:52,121 Speaker 4: Where are you all going? We're just gonna walk up 206 00:12:52,121 --> 00:12:52,681 Speaker 4: to the tour and. 207 00:12:54,561 --> 00:12:56,881 Speaker 2: Hopefully he was the person who was out with his 208 00:12:56,961 --> 00:12:59,521 Speaker 2: son when they found Christina's body on May seventh. 209 00:13:01,481 --> 00:13:03,241 Speaker 5: Yes, you didn't leave him a business card? 210 00:13:04,081 --> 00:13:05,801 Speaker 4: No, because I think we need to kind of. 211 00:13:05,921 --> 00:13:08,361 Speaker 2: I feel like if they see it sometimes like it'll 212 00:13:08,361 --> 00:13:09,521 Speaker 2: be like, oh, it's intimidating to call. 213 00:13:09,561 --> 00:13:11,001 Speaker 4: But if you if we're really could come up, we're 214 00:13:11,041 --> 00:13:11,521 Speaker 4: just like two. 215 00:13:11,401 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 6: Nights a girls. 216 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,041 Speaker 2: If we don't make contact at all, I will even 217 00:13:17,081 --> 00:13:19,081 Speaker 2: note like explaining what it is. 218 00:13:19,121 --> 00:13:21,921 Speaker 4: But I just think it's better to in this case, 219 00:13:22,041 --> 00:13:22,801 Speaker 4: better if he sees. 220 00:13:26,481 --> 00:13:28,601 Speaker 2: One thing that seemed weird to me was that if 221 00:13:28,681 --> 00:13:32,121 Speaker 2: Christina was dumped out here, this is a very rural area, 222 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:35,961 Speaker 2: if someone drove her here, I wondered, wouldn't that car 223 00:13:36,001 --> 00:13:37,841 Speaker 2: have been seen by someone, maybe a neighbor. 224 00:13:38,721 --> 00:13:41,241 Speaker 4: And it turns out, according to the case file. 225 00:13:41,801 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: There were people at cal Lake Ditch on the evening 226 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,321 Speaker 2: of May fourth, nineteen ninety one. A man named Morgan 227 00:13:48,401 --> 00:13:51,201 Speaker 2: Davis and some of his friends, Ricky has and Ricky's 228 00:13:51,201 --> 00:13:54,241 Speaker 2: wife were out frog gigging. Now, for those of you 229 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,401 Speaker 2: who aren't from Arkansas, and even those who are, I'm 230 00:13:57,401 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: from South Arkansas and I had no idea what frog 231 00:13:59,961 --> 00:14:02,961 Speaker 2: gigging is. A lot of people know that frog legs 232 00:14:02,961 --> 00:14:05,961 Speaker 2: are a delicacy in places like France, but some people 233 00:14:06,001 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 2: don't know they're also a popular menu item in Arkansas. 234 00:14:09,761 --> 00:14:14,761 Speaker 2: So people go bullfrog hunting, which they call gigging the 235 00:14:14,801 --> 00:14:17,441 Speaker 2: best and indeed the only time to go frog gigging 236 00:14:17,521 --> 00:14:21,001 Speaker 2: is really at night. On May fourth, Morgan Davis launched 237 00:14:21,001 --> 00:14:23,801 Speaker 2: his boat at around nine to fifteen to nine thirty 238 00:14:23,801 --> 00:14:28,761 Speaker 2: pm off Calaike Ditch. I ask my dad about frog gigging, 239 00:14:28,761 --> 00:14:31,961 Speaker 2: and he told me how it worked. To hunt frogs, 240 00:14:32,081 --> 00:14:35,001 Speaker 2: you shine a flashlight around the water, and the idea 241 00:14:35,081 --> 00:14:37,361 Speaker 2: is that you can see the frog's eyes reflect back 242 00:14:37,401 --> 00:14:39,881 Speaker 2: at you. My dad tells me, by the way, if 243 00:14:39,921 --> 00:14:42,561 Speaker 2: you see eyes reflecting red back at you and not white, 244 00:14:42,721 --> 00:14:46,201 Speaker 2: you should run because it's probably an alligator. You also 245 00:14:46,241 --> 00:14:48,161 Speaker 2: have to avoid a lot of other pitfalls at night, 246 00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:51,961 Speaker 2: like water moccasins and tree branches and other hazards. There 247 00:14:51,961 --> 00:14:55,281 Speaker 2: are apparently two types of frog traps, the ones that 248 00:14:55,361 --> 00:14:57,641 Speaker 2: simply entrapped the frog in a net and the kind 249 00:14:57,721 --> 00:15:00,441 Speaker 2: that kind of looked like a tried in. People used 250 00:15:00,441 --> 00:15:05,721 Speaker 2: that to basically stab and scoop the bullfrogs into the boat. Morgan, Ricky, 251 00:15:05,761 --> 00:15:08,721 Speaker 2: and Ricky's wife stayed out all night. They came in 252 00:15:08,801 --> 00:15:11,001 Speaker 2: when dawn was breaking on the morning of May fifth. 253 00:15:11,801 --> 00:15:14,441 Speaker 2: During that time, they said they never saw any stranger 254 00:15:14,561 --> 00:15:18,521 Speaker 2: or any strange car. Everything seemed completely normal, and they 255 00:15:18,561 --> 00:15:22,201 Speaker 2: were in that area where Christina's body was found. Morgan 256 00:15:22,241 --> 00:15:24,921 Speaker 2: also answered a question about the weather. A lot of 257 00:15:24,961 --> 00:15:27,921 Speaker 2: people talked about how the area had been flooded and 258 00:15:28,041 --> 00:15:30,761 Speaker 2: wondered if there had been rain the day Christina went missing, 259 00:15:31,241 --> 00:15:33,641 Speaker 2: But he answered that question. He said there was a 260 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:36,681 Speaker 2: big storm, but it happened on Sunday morning, the day 261 00:15:36,721 --> 00:15:40,241 Speaker 2: after Christina went missing. On Saturday night, it was warm 262 00:15:40,401 --> 00:15:43,361 Speaker 2: and dry. He said that the current was moving slowly. 263 00:15:44,081 --> 00:15:46,841 Speaker 2: He said, quote, the current was not real strong at 264 00:15:46,881 --> 00:15:49,961 Speaker 2: that time. I know that ditch and the current won't 265 00:15:50,001 --> 00:15:53,241 Speaker 2: be real swift until the bio starts dropping. We got 266 00:15:53,241 --> 00:15:55,201 Speaker 2: out of the ditch before the storm hit us that 267 00:15:55,241 --> 00:15:58,721 Speaker 2: Sunday morning. I did not see any vehicles parked around 268 00:15:58,761 --> 00:16:02,041 Speaker 2: the river bridge or ditch bridge at that time end quote. 269 00:16:02,681 --> 00:16:06,121 Speaker 2: None of them saw Christina Pipkin that night, none of 270 00:16:06,121 --> 00:16:08,601 Speaker 2: them saw a strange car, and none of them heard 271 00:16:08,641 --> 00:16:12,121 Speaker 2: any struggle or any screams for help. So the fact 272 00:16:12,201 --> 00:16:15,161 Speaker 2: that Ricky and his boat his party did not see 273 00:16:15,201 --> 00:16:18,561 Speaker 2: anyone that night kind of makes me lean toward one 274 00:16:18,561 --> 00:16:23,481 Speaker 2: of two possibilities. Either Christina was dumped somewhere else floaded 275 00:16:23,561 --> 00:16:25,241 Speaker 2: down to where they were and got stuck in that 276 00:16:25,281 --> 00:16:30,161 Speaker 2: tree branch, or she was dumped much earlier, perhaps before 277 00:16:30,321 --> 00:16:36,041 Speaker 2: nine pm, before dark when they launched their boat. 278 00:16:36,281 --> 00:16:38,201 Speaker 4: So now we need to go back again. 279 00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:41,641 Speaker 2: What can we learn from the case file about who 280 00:16:41,961 --> 00:16:46,401 Speaker 2: was where at that time in Hickory Ridge between around 281 00:16:46,561 --> 00:16:50,001 Speaker 2: six thirty and nine pm that night. We're looking for 282 00:16:50,121 --> 00:16:53,001 Speaker 2: any inconsistencies in their stories that we can find, or 283 00:16:53,081 --> 00:16:56,081 Speaker 2: anyone we can talk to who could help filling these gaps. 284 00:16:58,921 --> 00:17:01,921 Speaker 2: We talked about Charles Cotton in our last episode. He 285 00:17:02,081 --> 00:17:04,001 Speaker 2: was one of many people of interest at the time 286 00:17:04,041 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: who were interviewed by law enforcement. He was interviewed by 287 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: investigator Steve Doser on May fifth, the day after Christina 288 00:17:11,041 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 2: went missing. At the time, Charles told detectives he spent 289 00:17:15,201 --> 00:17:17,561 Speaker 2: May fourth fishing at Burdeye at a place called the 290 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,921 Speaker 2: Bay Ditch near Cherry Valley between one thirty and five 291 00:17:21,041 --> 00:17:23,201 Speaker 2: thirty pm. He said he was out there with a 292 00:17:23,201 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: guy he knew named Edward Hoague. He told police that 293 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 2: Edward Hoague had a criminal record of some kind. Charles 294 00:17:29,961 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: said he believed Edward was, as he put it, wanted 295 00:17:32,921 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: either in when or for a city. At some point, 296 00:17:36,201 --> 00:17:40,161 Speaker 2: presumably after they finished fishing at around five thirty, Charles 297 00:17:40,201 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: said that he remembered heading home, but he told police 298 00:17:44,041 --> 00:17:46,561 Speaker 2: a friend of his had reminded him that he saw 299 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,441 Speaker 2: Charles that day at the Bearcat Store, which would have 300 00:17:49,441 --> 00:17:51,481 Speaker 2: put him at the convenience store at around the same 301 00:17:51,521 --> 00:17:54,321 Speaker 2: time Christina was there, around five thirty to six pm. 302 00:17:55,121 --> 00:17:59,001 Speaker 2: Charles's wife, Rebecca confirmed investigators that yes, she and Charles 303 00:17:59,041 --> 00:18:03,241 Speaker 2: were in the grocery store that afternoon. Charles said that 304 00:18:03,441 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: later that evening, presumably after they left the store, he 305 00:18:06,921 --> 00:18:09,841 Speaker 2: and his family, including his twenty one year old wife, Rebecca, 306 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,201 Speaker 2: who was pregnant at the time, were home watching TV. 307 00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 2: Then he said, at around ten thirty or eleven, his 308 00:18:15,241 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: friend Neia Long came over and told him Christina Pipkin 309 00:18:18,161 --> 00:18:21,401 Speaker 2: was missing. Now, at that point, he said, he borrowed 310 00:18:21,401 --> 00:18:23,681 Speaker 2: a three wheeler from another friend of his, and he 311 00:18:23,761 --> 00:18:27,561 Speaker 2: and Rebecca volunteered to help with the search. Again, I 312 00:18:27,721 --> 00:18:29,801 Speaker 2: just want to flag a couple of things up in 313 00:18:29,921 --> 00:18:33,881 Speaker 2: Charles Cotton's statement, because it seemed like he was very 314 00:18:33,961 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: invested in the search. Again, this could be completely innocuous. 315 00:18:38,961 --> 00:18:40,481 Speaker 2: It could be because it was the biggest thing to 316 00:18:40,521 --> 00:18:43,201 Speaker 2: happen around Hickory Ridge in a long time. He was 317 00:18:43,241 --> 00:18:46,321 Speaker 2: trying to be good neighbor, whatever. But it does raise 318 00:18:46,401 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: a couple of red flags for me. Because the Pipkins 319 00:18:49,881 --> 00:18:53,041 Speaker 2: had only lived in Hickory Ridge for four months, how 320 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,721 Speaker 2: well could Charles Cotton know these people. Later, Charles Cotton 321 00:18:57,761 --> 00:19:02,281 Speaker 2: told police that Pat Moore, who remember was the Pipkins 322 00:19:02,321 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: neighbor who introduced James Pipkin to Charles, told Charles that 323 00:19:06,441 --> 00:19:09,361 Speaker 2: another guy had been dreaming about a place on Highway 324 00:19:09,401 --> 00:19:13,521 Speaker 2: forty two West. So Charles told police that he and 325 00:19:13,641 --> 00:19:15,481 Speaker 2: a couple of his friends went out there to take 326 00:19:15,521 --> 00:19:18,001 Speaker 2: a look at this place that this guy had seen 327 00:19:18,041 --> 00:19:20,481 Speaker 2: in a dream. He said it was a shed and 328 00:19:20,561 --> 00:19:23,241 Speaker 2: it was near a baby cemetery. He said they saw 329 00:19:23,281 --> 00:19:26,201 Speaker 2: what looked like drag marks on the dirt inside the shed. 330 00:19:26,921 --> 00:19:30,241 Speaker 2: Supposedly Charles called the police, but he said law enforcement 331 00:19:30,361 --> 00:19:34,761 Speaker 2: never came out to look in that shed. Around this time, 332 00:19:34,801 --> 00:19:36,961 Speaker 2: there were all kinds of rumors flying around about what 333 00:19:37,001 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 2: could have happened to Christina Pipkins. This was before her 334 00:19:39,441 --> 00:19:42,881 Speaker 2: body was found. There were psychics calling the police, Police 335 00:19:42,921 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 2: were inundated with people trying to talk to them, and 336 00:19:45,401 --> 00:19:47,281 Speaker 2: police were out conducting tons of interviews. 337 00:19:47,601 --> 00:19:49,481 Speaker 4: So this was a time when lots of rumors were 338 00:19:49,521 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 4: flying around. 339 00:19:51,401 --> 00:19:54,121 Speaker 2: It's very strange that Charles would say he was going 340 00:19:54,121 --> 00:19:57,201 Speaker 2: out to a location because of something someone saw in 341 00:19:57,241 --> 00:20:01,081 Speaker 2: a dream. Maybe it's because he again was just trying 342 00:20:01,121 --> 00:20:03,321 Speaker 2: to follow any lead, or maybe it's because someone was 343 00:20:03,321 --> 00:20:09,281 Speaker 2: trying to misdirect this investigation. Investigators questioned Charles again about 344 00:20:09,321 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: the money that Charles had borrowed from James Pipkin. Remember, 345 00:20:13,201 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: he borrowed two hundred and twenty five dollars from James 346 00:20:15,601 --> 00:20:18,761 Speaker 2: Pipkin because he said he hadn't been able to pay 347 00:20:18,801 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: some fines related to bad checks because he had been 348 00:20:22,601 --> 00:20:25,961 Speaker 2: so busy searching for Christina. Just another weird story in 349 00:20:26,001 --> 00:20:30,561 Speaker 2: this case. In the case file, it said that Charles 350 00:20:30,561 --> 00:20:32,441 Speaker 2: admitted he had borrowed the two hundred and twenty five 351 00:20:32,441 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: dollars from James Pipkin. He produced a receipt that showed 352 00:20:36,241 --> 00:20:38,681 Speaker 2: Charles did make a payment on bad checks to the 353 00:20:38,721 --> 00:20:42,201 Speaker 2: police department. But the thing about that receipt was that 354 00:20:42,241 --> 00:20:46,321 Speaker 2: the receipt was dated nineteen ninety one and the interview 355 00:20:46,601 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: was done on May fifth, So I'm not sure what 356 00:20:49,201 --> 00:20:52,761 Speaker 2: happened here. Did Charles produce that receipt a few days 357 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 2: later and the officer just did not note that in 358 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,441 Speaker 2: his report or was the receipt postdated to May. 359 00:20:59,321 --> 00:21:00,561 Speaker 4: Tenth, I don't know. 360 00:21:01,281 --> 00:21:03,841 Speaker 2: But again, this is just one of those confusing disrepancies 361 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,081 Speaker 2: on the police report that I have no answers to. 362 00:21:09,761 --> 00:21:12,441 Speaker 2: There was another woman who said she saw something strange 363 00:21:12,481 --> 00:21:15,521 Speaker 2: the night Christina went missing. She said she saw something 364 00:21:15,561 --> 00:21:19,601 Speaker 2: odd happen with Charles's wife, Rebecca Cotton. This woman's name 365 00:21:19,681 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: is Donna King. There's just one problem with this police report. 366 00:21:25,001 --> 00:21:28,001 Speaker 2: I talked to Donna King, and she said she never 367 00:21:28,121 --> 00:21:30,961 Speaker 2: told police the story that they noted in this report. 368 00:21:31,721 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 2: I've also talked to Donna's friend, the friend who was 369 00:21:34,481 --> 00:21:37,561 Speaker 2: with her on the night Christina Pipkin went missing, and 370 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: Donna's friend confirmed. 371 00:21:39,481 --> 00:21:43,281 Speaker 4: Her story now again. According to the case file. 372 00:21:43,921 --> 00:21:47,601 Speaker 2: To this report from nineteen ninety one, Donna told investigators 373 00:21:47,641 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: that she and her husband had gone to Memphis from 374 00:21:50,001 --> 00:21:53,281 Speaker 2: Hickory Ridge on the day when Christina went missing. Donna 375 00:21:53,401 --> 00:21:55,521 Speaker 2: said in the report that they were on their way 376 00:21:55,521 --> 00:21:57,961 Speaker 2: back into town at around nine thirty pm that night 377 00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:01,961 Speaker 2: when she saw woman quote walking the street between the 378 00:22:01,961 --> 00:22:05,001 Speaker 2: Bearcat and that post office end quote. 379 00:22:05,521 --> 00:22:06,761 Speaker 4: Donna told me that. 380 00:22:06,881 --> 00:22:09,401 Speaker 2: Part of the report was correct because she was in 381 00:22:09,441 --> 00:22:12,561 Speaker 2: Memphis that day and she was driving back to Hickory Ridge. 382 00:22:12,401 --> 00:22:13,041 Speaker 4: With her husband. 383 00:22:13,801 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: But she said that after she got back to town, 384 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,561 Speaker 2: she met up with this friend of hers. She said 385 00:22:18,601 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: they went riding around to help look for Christina. So 386 00:22:22,001 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 2: at nine thirty pm, Donna was with her friend and 387 00:22:25,721 --> 00:22:28,401 Speaker 2: she said they did not see any woman walking along 388 00:22:28,441 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: the side of the road. In the police statement from 389 00:22:31,161 --> 00:22:35,441 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, the police said that Donna had recognized 390 00:22:35,481 --> 00:22:37,001 Speaker 2: the woman she saw on the side of the road 391 00:22:37,041 --> 00:22:41,961 Speaker 2: as Rebecca Cotton, Charles Cotton's wife. In the report, police 392 00:22:42,041 --> 00:22:44,721 Speaker 2: quote Donna as saying she's seen very sure that this 393 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,641 Speaker 2: was Rebecca, and that Rebecca seemed upset and was crying. Then, 394 00:22:50,561 --> 00:22:54,041 Speaker 2: police said Donna told them that she saw Charles Cotton 395 00:22:54,121 --> 00:22:57,241 Speaker 2: drive up to Rebecca on a three wheeler, Rebecca refused 396 00:22:57,281 --> 00:22:59,481 Speaker 2: to get on the three wheeler, and then Charles Cotton 397 00:22:59,561 --> 00:23:02,761 Speaker 2: come back and pick her up in a car. This 398 00:23:02,921 --> 00:23:06,401 Speaker 2: was a very detailed story, and the whole thing supposedly 399 00:23:06,481 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 2: took place several minutes before the search party started to 400 00:23:10,121 --> 00:23:13,801 Speaker 2: look for Christina. But Donna told me none of that 401 00:23:13,881 --> 00:23:17,041 Speaker 2: ever happened. In fact, she said she didn't know Rebecca 402 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,521 Speaker 2: Cotton at all by sight. Now, remember Charles said he 403 00:23:21,561 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 2: didn't go out on that three wheeler until after ten thirty, 404 00:23:24,201 --> 00:23:27,761 Speaker 2: so that would be after the search started. Also, Rebecca 405 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: told police that it was not her out walking on 406 00:23:30,641 --> 00:23:33,601 Speaker 2: that road. She said she had never been upset that night, 407 00:23:33,641 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: She was home watching TV with her family. Rebecca Cotton 408 00:23:37,201 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: did tell police that she had a pregnant sister at 409 00:23:39,641 --> 00:23:42,321 Speaker 2: the time who kind of looked like her. She suggested 410 00:23:42,361 --> 00:23:44,161 Speaker 2: it could have been her sister who was out there, 411 00:23:44,601 --> 00:23:47,641 Speaker 2: but police apparently never talked to Rebecca Cotton's sister, or 412 00:23:47,721 --> 00:23:50,121 Speaker 2: if they did, it's not part of the case file. 413 00:23:50,881 --> 00:23:54,241 Speaker 2: I thought this was just another inconsistency that was never resolved, 414 00:23:55,001 --> 00:23:58,241 Speaker 2: But when I talked to Donna King, she was adamant 415 00:23:58,401 --> 00:24:01,721 Speaker 2: she never said this. She never said she saw Rebecca Cotton. 416 00:24:02,361 --> 00:24:05,161 Speaker 2: She believes that police may have mixed their notes up 417 00:24:05,281 --> 00:24:08,881 Speaker 2: or confused her with someone else. Donna also said there 418 00:24:08,881 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: was another statement that she did give police, and she 419 00:24:11,241 --> 00:24:12,921 Speaker 2: said it was very detailed. 420 00:24:13,001 --> 00:24:14,721 Speaker 4: About a brown car she saw. 421 00:24:15,361 --> 00:24:17,601 Speaker 2: It does not appear to be anywhere in the case file, 422 00:24:17,641 --> 00:24:20,681 Speaker 2: and we will have details of what she says about 423 00:24:20,681 --> 00:24:24,121 Speaker 2: that in next week's episode. For now, though I don't 424 00:24:24,161 --> 00:24:27,161 Speaker 2: know what to think, this actually really shocks me. I've 425 00:24:27,201 --> 00:24:30,281 Speaker 2: seen cases where police reports had details wrong, and I've 426 00:24:30,321 --> 00:24:32,761 Speaker 2: seen instances where people didn't remember a lot of what 427 00:24:32,801 --> 00:24:36,161 Speaker 2: they said thirty years ago. But this seems like police 428 00:24:36,241 --> 00:24:39,961 Speaker 2: may have actually mixed people up or combined their stories, 429 00:24:40,441 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: which I didn't even really know was possible, and also 430 00:24:44,161 --> 00:24:48,201 Speaker 2: begs the question if Donna King didn't tell police about 431 00:24:48,201 --> 00:24:51,001 Speaker 2: seeing Rebecca Cotton on the side of the road, who 432 00:24:51,041 --> 00:24:57,281 Speaker 2: did and is that person still out there. Okay, let's 433 00:24:57,281 --> 00:25:03,401 Speaker 2: go back to May fourth, nineteen ninety one. Michael Long, 434 00:25:03,481 --> 00:25:06,201 Speaker 2: the next door neighbor, saw Christina at the Bearcat store 435 00:25:06,241 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 2: at around five thirty. Christina's math teacher saw her a 436 00:25:09,161 --> 00:25:12,721 Speaker 2: few minutes later, just after six pm. The cashier we 437 00:25:12,801 --> 00:25:16,001 Speaker 2: talked to from the Bearcats store also saw Christina around 438 00:25:16,001 --> 00:25:19,401 Speaker 2: the store that day at around five thirty. She showed 439 00:25:19,481 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: us the composite drawing that looked very similar to Robbie Tubbs, 440 00:25:22,881 --> 00:25:25,281 Speaker 2: and she described a car that was brown. 441 00:25:25,641 --> 00:25:27,481 Speaker 4: At the time, Robbie Tubbs drove. 442 00:25:27,321 --> 00:25:30,721 Speaker 2: A nineteen eighty one brown, cream colored four wheel drive 443 00:25:30,881 --> 00:25:35,241 Speaker 2: AMC Eagle sedan. But then a lot of other people 444 00:25:35,281 --> 00:25:37,801 Speaker 2: mentioned blue cars, and I'm trying to figure out who 445 00:25:38,001 --> 00:25:41,481 Speaker 2: the first person was who mentioned this suspicious blue car. 446 00:25:42,641 --> 00:25:46,401 Speaker 2: Was the blue car action something that was seen with Christina, 447 00:25:46,601 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 2: or did it just become part of everyone's collective imagination 448 00:25:49,801 --> 00:25:54,321 Speaker 2: Over the next few days, one person who police wanted 449 00:25:54,361 --> 00:25:58,801 Speaker 2: to talk to was Janetta, Robbie Tubbs's girlfriend. Remember, Robbie 450 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,201 Speaker 2: had a bit of an unconventional private life at the time. 451 00:26:01,641 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: He was married to his wife Sandra, but he had 452 00:26:04,121 --> 00:26:08,241 Speaker 2: a girlfriend, Janetta. Investigators talked to Janetta and she gave 453 00:26:08,321 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: more details about who Robbie was hanging out with at 454 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,241 Speaker 2: the time. Janetta stated that at the time when Christina 455 00:26:14,321 --> 00:26:17,201 Speaker 2: went missing, she lived in Amagon, a nearby town, with 456 00:26:17,241 --> 00:26:21,561 Speaker 2: her brother named Larry Gill. She mentioned Linda, the friend 457 00:26:21,561 --> 00:26:25,401 Speaker 2: of Robbie's that he sold his car to later, and 458 00:26:25,681 --> 00:26:28,721 Speaker 2: she said that Robbie had another friend named Jackie. She 459 00:26:28,801 --> 00:26:31,121 Speaker 2: didn't know Jackie's last name, but she said they would 460 00:26:31,121 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 2: often go shelling together. I write in my notebook Jackie 461 00:26:35,801 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 2: question mark, because we need to figure out who this 462 00:26:38,201 --> 00:26:43,281 Speaker 2: mysterious friend is. As we said in the last episode, 463 00:26:44,001 --> 00:26:49,001 Speaker 2: Robbie claimed that Janetta and one of her children and 464 00:26:49,281 --> 00:26:51,881 Speaker 2: a young woman who he believed could be Christina had 465 00:26:51,921 --> 00:26:55,761 Speaker 2: all sat in his car at a nearby park, but 466 00:26:56,361 --> 00:26:59,521 Speaker 2: Janetta refuted Robbie's alibi. She said she never went to 467 00:26:59,561 --> 00:27:02,521 Speaker 2: the nearby park with Robbie Tubbs, her son, was never 468 00:27:02,601 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 2: in the car with Robbie, and she had ridden in 469 00:27:04,441 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 2: Robbie's car before, but never driven it. There are a 470 00:27:08,201 --> 00:27:11,441 Speaker 2: couple of other sightings of Christina Pipkin that happened later 471 00:27:11,561 --> 00:27:16,281 Speaker 2: after seven pm, but they're not confirmed. There was a 472 00:27:16,321 --> 00:27:19,001 Speaker 2: boy his name was redacted, but he was a student 473 00:27:19,041 --> 00:27:21,561 Speaker 2: at Hickory Ridge Elementary School. He was someone who went 474 00:27:21,561 --> 00:27:25,201 Speaker 2: to school with Christina. He told police that on Saturday night, 475 00:27:25,241 --> 00:27:27,921 Speaker 2: at around seven thirty or eight pm, he saw three 476 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,161 Speaker 2: parked cars at Burl's gas station in wien Or, Arkansas. 477 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,041 Speaker 2: He said he saw a girl standing by a blue car. 478 00:27:34,601 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 2: He thought it was Christina. He couldn't remember what the 479 00:27:37,921 --> 00:27:41,041 Speaker 2: little girl was wearing, or really any other information, according 480 00:27:41,041 --> 00:27:44,401 Speaker 2: to the case file. I find this very frustrated, because, again, 481 00:27:44,441 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to criticize what investigators were doing. I 482 00:27:47,761 --> 00:27:50,321 Speaker 2: know it's a small police force, but there is a 483 00:27:50,361 --> 00:27:52,041 Speaker 2: part of me that wants to jump back in time 484 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: and ask more questions. I feel like if the investigator 485 00:27:55,641 --> 00:27:57,921 Speaker 2: had spent a little more time talking to this kid, 486 00:27:58,761 --> 00:28:00,681 Speaker 2: maybe he might have been able to get more information 487 00:28:00,721 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: out of him, at least enough to look into it 488 00:28:03,241 --> 00:28:05,641 Speaker 2: further to figure out who this girl might be. If 489 00:28:05,681 --> 00:28:08,561 Speaker 2: it wasn't Christina, we could rule it out and get 490 00:28:08,561 --> 00:28:12,721 Speaker 2: a more accurate timeline. Other than Christina's friend who said 491 00:28:12,761 --> 00:28:15,041 Speaker 2: she saw Christina talking to someone in a blue car, 492 00:28:15,121 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: which may have happened after seven pm. The last person 493 00:28:19,001 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: who was sure about what time she saw Christina Pipkin 494 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,681 Speaker 2: was her math teacher, Sally Lamb. Miss Lamb said she 495 00:28:25,761 --> 00:28:27,721 Speaker 2: was at the bear Cat between six point thirty and 496 00:28:27,801 --> 00:28:31,161 Speaker 2: six thirty five pm. She said Christina stopped her on 497 00:28:31,201 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 2: the sidewalk and asked what they were going to be 498 00:28:32,881 --> 00:28:35,841 Speaker 2: doing in school that Monday. Miss Lamb said, why our 499 00:28:35,881 --> 00:28:39,161 Speaker 2: math of course. Then she saw Christina was carrying her 500 00:28:39,241 --> 00:28:45,081 Speaker 2: jewelry order catalog. She said Christina was barefoot, which honest, which, 501 00:28:45,121 --> 00:28:48,481 Speaker 2: as we said last time, could explain why christina sandals 502 00:28:48,481 --> 00:28:51,801 Speaker 2: were never found. Miss Lamb remembered that she said because 503 00:28:51,801 --> 00:28:55,481 Speaker 2: she was thinking Christina wasn't really dressed appropriately for selling jewelry, 504 00:28:55,561 --> 00:28:56,841 Speaker 2: and she didn't think she was going to make a 505 00:28:56,841 --> 00:29:00,961 Speaker 2: lot of sales. That day, Miss Lamb saw Christina talking 506 00:29:00,961 --> 00:29:05,001 Speaker 2: to Don Payne on Second Street. She saw Don drive away, 507 00:29:05,441 --> 00:29:08,721 Speaker 2: and she saw Christina continuing to walk south on Second Street. 508 00:29:09,601 --> 00:29:14,401 Speaker 2: We tried to track down Don Payne, unfortunately he's passed away. 509 00:29:15,161 --> 00:29:16,121 Speaker 4: Since we now have. 510 00:29:16,241 --> 00:29:19,361 Speaker 2: Access to Robbie's wife, Sandra's statement as part of the 511 00:29:19,361 --> 00:29:22,681 Speaker 2: case file, I want to take a closer look at that. Remember, 512 00:29:22,801 --> 00:29:26,201 Speaker 2: Sandra Tubbs was murdered two years after Christina died, so 513 00:29:26,281 --> 00:29:27,681 Speaker 2: we can't go back and talk to her. 514 00:29:28,321 --> 00:29:30,641 Speaker 4: But her interview is one of the only ones in the. 515 00:29:30,721 --> 00:29:34,401 Speaker 2: Entire case file that's actually transcribed pretty much word for word. 516 00:29:34,921 --> 00:29:37,481 Speaker 2: So even though this evidence is circumstantial, I think it's 517 00:29:37,561 --> 00:29:42,561 Speaker 2: really important to analyze it. Some of what Sandra told 518 00:29:42,601 --> 00:29:56,561 Speaker 2: police is Siria disturbing. In October of nineteen ninety one, 519 00:29:57,361 --> 00:30:01,401 Speaker 2: Sandra Tubbs told police that around the time when Christina 520 00:30:01,441 --> 00:30:06,001 Speaker 2: went missing, Robbie Tubbs had made some disturbing statements. She 521 00:30:06,041 --> 00:30:08,081 Speaker 2: said she'd been too afraid to come to them in 522 00:30:08,121 --> 00:30:10,801 Speaker 2: the past, and that's why she had waited several months. 523 00:30:11,481 --> 00:30:15,361 Speaker 2: Sandra said, quote, my husband, Robbie Tubbs, he came home 524 00:30:15,401 --> 00:30:17,121 Speaker 2: and was talking about what it would be like to 525 00:30:17,201 --> 00:30:20,281 Speaker 2: drown because, you know, me being under that water all 526 00:30:20,321 --> 00:30:22,841 Speaker 2: the time, he says, it makes me wonder what it's 527 00:30:22,921 --> 00:30:25,961 Speaker 2: like for somebody to drown, you know, whether they struggle 528 00:30:26,081 --> 00:30:28,761 Speaker 2: or what's their last thought and stuff when somebody is drowning. 529 00:30:29,081 --> 00:30:30,361 Speaker 4: End quote. 530 00:30:30,681 --> 00:30:34,161 Speaker 2: Sandra said that later, after Christina went missing, Robbie made 531 00:30:34,201 --> 00:30:37,321 Speaker 2: another comment, this time when a news story came on 532 00:30:37,681 --> 00:30:42,561 Speaker 2: about Christina. Sandra said, Robbie told her, quote, they'll never 533 00:30:42,601 --> 00:30:45,441 Speaker 2: find her. There's too many rice stitches and stuff around 534 00:30:45,441 --> 00:30:46,681 Speaker 2: here for somebody to drown in. 535 00:30:47,041 --> 00:30:49,761 Speaker 4: She's dead end quote. 536 00:30:50,321 --> 00:30:52,921 Speaker 2: At that point, Sandra said she got a very bad 537 00:30:53,001 --> 00:30:58,081 Speaker 2: gut feeling that something was very wrong. Robbie, like everyone else, 538 00:30:58,121 --> 00:30:58,961 Speaker 2: had theories. 539 00:30:58,681 --> 00:30:59,321 Speaker 4: About the case. 540 00:30:59,841 --> 00:31:03,721 Speaker 2: He told Sandra that police had already figured out someone 541 00:31:03,761 --> 00:31:07,161 Speaker 2: in Christina's family had committed this crime, that they had 542 00:31:07,201 --> 00:31:11,201 Speaker 2: found some jewelry she was wearing. At one point, he 543 00:31:11,281 --> 00:31:14,321 Speaker 2: had another theory. He told Sandra he believed the Bruce 544 00:31:14,401 --> 00:31:17,161 Speaker 2: boys did it. As a side note, this was when 545 00:31:17,201 --> 00:31:20,401 Speaker 2: Sandra found out that her husband knew the killer siblings 546 00:31:20,441 --> 00:31:20,881 Speaker 2: known as. 547 00:31:20,761 --> 00:31:24,761 Speaker 4: The Bruce Brothers. The Bruce brothers were brutal. 548 00:31:24,441 --> 00:31:28,161 Speaker 2: Killers and arsonists. They're notorious in their hometown of Camden, Tennessee. 549 00:31:29,481 --> 00:31:34,161 Speaker 2: Like Robbie Tubbs, the Bruce brothers were muscleshellers. Apparently they 550 00:31:34,241 --> 00:31:37,401 Speaker 2: hung out with Robbie Tubbs. At the time when Robbie 551 00:31:37,441 --> 00:31:42,201 Speaker 2: knew them, the Bruce brothers had already committed multiple murders. 552 00:31:43,121 --> 00:31:46,801 Speaker 2: On January sixteenth, nineteen ninety one, Gary, Robert and Jerry 553 00:31:46,841 --> 00:31:50,601 Speaker 2: Bruce set fire to the home of Danny Vine, a musclesheller. 554 00:31:50,641 --> 00:31:52,761 Speaker 2: They knew who kept a lot of cash in his property. 555 00:31:53,881 --> 00:31:58,481 Speaker 2: His girlfriend, Della Thornton, also lived there. Both Danny and 556 00:31:58,721 --> 00:32:02,401 Speaker 2: Della were shot execution style with a thirty eight caliber gun. 557 00:32:03,841 --> 00:32:07,081 Speaker 2: The killers stole their money, which police estimated and around 558 00:32:07,121 --> 00:32:12,641 Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars. This case was really notorious and reminded 559 00:32:12,641 --> 00:32:14,601 Speaker 2: me of some of the cases I've seen in Arkansas 560 00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:17,721 Speaker 2: because police talked to the boys, and they also talked 561 00:32:17,761 --> 00:32:21,961 Speaker 2: to their mother, Kathleen Bruce, and their mother not only 562 00:32:22,041 --> 00:32:24,441 Speaker 2: protected her sons, but a lot of people believe was 563 00:32:24,521 --> 00:32:31,401 Speaker 2: involved in these murders. All of the Bruce boys, Gary, Robert, Jerry, 564 00:32:31,481 --> 00:32:35,241 Speaker 2: and their brother j C had violent criminal records. Jay 565 00:32:35,401 --> 00:32:38,961 Speaker 2: C was actually convicted of raping and strangling a fifteen 566 00:32:39,041 --> 00:32:42,961 Speaker 2: year old girl in nineteen seventy five, but inexplicably, he 567 00:32:43,041 --> 00:32:46,801 Speaker 2: got pardoned by the governor of Tennessee at the time. Later, 568 00:32:46,881 --> 00:32:49,481 Speaker 2: a former girlfriend of jay C's went to the police. 569 00:32:50,081 --> 00:32:51,841 Speaker 2: She wanted to tell them what she knew, but she 570 00:32:51,961 --> 00:32:56,561 Speaker 2: was terrified and she wanted protection. Eventually, though, the girlfriend 571 00:32:56,601 --> 00:33:00,321 Speaker 2: disappeared and she has never been seen since. All the 572 00:33:00,321 --> 00:33:03,001 Speaker 2: boys provided alibis for each other. They all covered up 573 00:33:03,041 --> 00:33:07,001 Speaker 2: each other's crimes in the end. Robert, Jerry, Lee, and 574 00:33:07,121 --> 00:33:12,161 Speaker 2: Gary were all arrested and convicted. They got life sentences, 575 00:33:12,201 --> 00:33:14,761 Speaker 2: and their mom, Kathleen Bruce, got eight years in prison 576 00:33:14,801 --> 00:33:18,641 Speaker 2: for her role in covering up the crimes. Sheila Bradford, 577 00:33:19,121 --> 00:33:21,561 Speaker 2: j C's former girlfriend, who tried to help the police, 578 00:33:21,681 --> 00:33:24,401 Speaker 2: is still gone and her disappearance remains unsolved. 579 00:33:25,201 --> 00:33:25,521 Speaker 5: J C. 580 00:33:25,721 --> 00:33:29,041 Speaker 2: Bruce was never charged with the murders or with the 581 00:33:29,041 --> 00:33:33,761 Speaker 2: disappearance of his former girlfriend. The stuff that Robbie told 582 00:33:33,801 --> 00:33:36,841 Speaker 2: Sandra was odd because to my knowledge, no one else 583 00:33:36,881 --> 00:33:39,601 Speaker 2: has ever mentioned the Bruce brothers in connection with this case. 584 00:33:40,841 --> 00:33:44,241 Speaker 2: There's also no indication they were in Arkansas that time. 585 00:33:44,681 --> 00:33:47,321 Speaker 2: We're following that lead, but to me, it looks like 586 00:33:47,441 --> 00:33:50,641 Speaker 2: Robbie kind of like the way he mentioned Christina's family 587 00:33:50,641 --> 00:33:53,881 Speaker 2: and the jewelry being found, either was misinformed or just 588 00:33:53,961 --> 00:33:57,161 Speaker 2: making an innocent comment about what he thought, or possibly 589 00:33:57,201 --> 00:34:01,321 Speaker 2: was trying to misdirect the investigation. I keep going back 590 00:34:01,361 --> 00:34:06,841 Speaker 2: to another name, Robbie's friend Jackie Jackie question Mark, because 591 00:34:06,881 --> 00:34:10,361 Speaker 2: Sandra mentioned him too as someone who Robbie went shelling with. 592 00:34:12,121 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: Sandra said, whenever Robbie shelled in that area, he went 593 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,761 Speaker 2: with Jackie. They always stopped in Hickory Ridge so we 594 00:34:18,841 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: could let Jackie out. Near Waldenburg and nearby town. The 595 00:34:22,681 --> 00:34:25,521 Speaker 2: cashiers said that the man who came into the store 596 00:34:25,601 --> 00:34:28,801 Speaker 2: the night Christina Pipkin went missing was alone. But what 597 00:34:28,881 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: if Jackie was dropped off earlier? Could Jackie have been 598 00:34:31,641 --> 00:34:36,841 Speaker 2: around that night somewhere? And this quote from Sandra really 599 00:34:36,841 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: stays with me. She said, he, meaning Robbie, told me 600 00:34:41,201 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: he wasn't the only one that liked the little girls, 601 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,921 Speaker 2: that Jackie liked the little girls too. She goes on 602 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 2: to talk of more and more about Robbie Tubb's disturbing 603 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 2: history of picking up young girls. She talked about an 604 00:34:54,081 --> 00:34:56,201 Speaker 2: incident where she saw an eleven year old girl sit 605 00:34:56,281 --> 00:34:59,481 Speaker 2: on Robbie's lap then run crying from the room, super upset, 606 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: she said when she asked Robbie about it, he said, oh, 607 00:35:02,161 --> 00:35:04,321 Speaker 2: she got picked on by some girls at school. He 608 00:35:04,401 --> 00:35:06,081 Speaker 2: said he was just trying to make her feel better. 609 00:35:06,641 --> 00:35:09,361 Speaker 2: But Sandra said that little girl was always hugging Robbie 610 00:35:09,361 --> 00:35:11,841 Speaker 2: and sitting in his lap. She said it made her 611 00:35:11,881 --> 00:35:15,801 Speaker 2: feel very uncomfortable. She thought something was going on. Sandra 612 00:35:15,921 --> 00:35:19,681 Speaker 2: said these incidents happened starting in nineteen eighty one, and 613 00:35:19,721 --> 00:35:23,201 Speaker 2: that they took place in Lagrange, Texas, and later in 614 00:35:23,281 --> 00:35:28,361 Speaker 2: Sulfur Springs. Later, Sandra said, quote, there was this little 615 00:35:28,361 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: girl teasing him and showing him her body. He would 616 00:35:30,681 --> 00:35:32,801 Speaker 2: talk about it like it was some big joke or something, 617 00:35:33,281 --> 00:35:35,201 Speaker 2: and then I went and told her daddy, and nothing 618 00:35:35,241 --> 00:35:37,841 Speaker 2: ever happened about it because her daddy didn't believe it. 619 00:35:38,201 --> 00:35:42,241 Speaker 2: End quote. These admissions are so disturbing to me. By 620 00:35:42,281 --> 00:35:44,121 Speaker 2: the way, I want to add Robbie tub Rubs and 621 00:35:44,161 --> 00:35:47,361 Speaker 2: his statement to police completely denied all of this. He 622 00:35:47,401 --> 00:35:51,441 Speaker 2: said he'd never been attracted to young teenagers. He denied 623 00:35:51,481 --> 00:35:55,561 Speaker 2: all of that. But it really is shocking to me 624 00:35:55,721 --> 00:35:58,881 Speaker 2: for a number of reasons. One, these girls were potentially 625 00:35:58,921 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 2: being abused and no one was doing anything to help them. 626 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,961 Speaker 2: And two the sheer number of potentially sexually abusive people 627 00:36:06,361 --> 00:36:08,721 Speaker 2: who were around at the time and the potential number 628 00:36:08,721 --> 00:36:15,281 Speaker 2: of victims who could still be out there. Then Sandra 629 00:36:15,361 --> 00:36:17,641 Speaker 2: talked about what happened in nineteen eighty three. This was 630 00:36:17,681 --> 00:36:20,841 Speaker 2: the incident she talked about in depth of police. She 631 00:36:20,921 --> 00:36:23,481 Speaker 2: said Robbie picked up a young woman who she described 632 00:36:23,521 --> 00:36:27,321 Speaker 2: as twelve or thirteen years old, and her boyfriend and 633 00:36:27,401 --> 00:36:30,321 Speaker 2: offered them a lift to Hot Springs. Sandra said at 634 00:36:30,321 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: some point during this ride, she got upset, and she said, 635 00:36:33,161 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 2: even though she was seven months pregnant, Robbie kicked her 636 00:36:35,601 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 2: out of the car and left with these two young teens. Then, 637 00:36:39,281 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 2: she said, a few days later she showed up again. 638 00:36:42,281 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: She went out to where they dropped the kids off 639 00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:47,721 Speaker 2: what Robbie and the young woman were gone. And the 640 00:36:47,801 --> 00:36:51,761 Speaker 2: young boy apparently told Sandra that at some point they 641 00:36:51,801 --> 00:36:53,801 Speaker 2: went to a park and went to sleep. When he 642 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 2: woke up, he said he saw Robbie and that young 643 00:36:56,561 --> 00:37:01,281 Speaker 2: girl doing something sexual, and after that, he said, Robbie 644 00:37:01,321 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: kicked him out of the car and made him walk. 645 00:37:04,321 --> 00:37:07,401 Speaker 2: After that, Sandra said, she got back together with Robbie. 646 00:37:07,401 --> 00:37:10,801 Speaker 2: Which I really try not to judge of victims because 647 00:37:10,841 --> 00:37:12,681 Speaker 2: I never know what anyone has been through and what 648 00:37:12,681 --> 00:37:13,401 Speaker 2: their history is. 649 00:37:14,041 --> 00:37:16,241 Speaker 4: But I do find it shocking. I can't help it. 650 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:17,361 Speaker 4: She said. 651 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:17,801 Speaker 3: Quote. 652 00:37:18,361 --> 00:37:20,241 Speaker 2: I said, Robbie, don't you know you could get in 653 00:37:20,281 --> 00:37:22,121 Speaker 2: bad trouble for that. You could go to prison for that, 654 00:37:22,641 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 2: And he said, who the hell cares? The only one 655 00:37:25,041 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 2: who could do anything about it was her mama, he said, 656 00:37:28,201 --> 00:37:30,721 Speaker 2: her mama didn't care that she gave us a blanket 657 00:37:31,041 --> 00:37:35,761 Speaker 2: end quote. Sandra said that Robbie became physically abusive and 658 00:37:35,921 --> 00:37:38,921 Speaker 2: violent and had beaten her when she mentioned what he 659 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,241 Speaker 2: had said about Christina Pipkin. She said, after she threatened 660 00:37:42,241 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: to tell police what she knew, he told her that 661 00:37:45,041 --> 00:37:47,801 Speaker 2: she was crazy. He quote told me that I was 662 00:37:47,841 --> 00:37:50,521 Speaker 2: crazy and they would never believe me, and it really 663 00:37:50,521 --> 00:37:52,601 Speaker 2: made him mad, and he gagged me and choked me. 664 00:37:55,241 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: This is all very disturbing, both the violence and the 665 00:37:58,481 --> 00:38:01,641 Speaker 2: fact that, according to Sandra in her police statement, Robbie 666 00:38:01,681 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: had a history of asking very young girls to ride 667 00:38:04,161 --> 00:38:08,561 Speaker 2: with him in his vehicle and then she claims sexually 668 00:38:08,561 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 2: assaulting them or propositioning them. Robbie said that yes, he 669 00:38:16,241 --> 00:38:18,641 Speaker 2: was driving a brown AMC Eagle at the time, but 670 00:38:18,681 --> 00:38:20,401 Speaker 2: he said his car had torn up in the fall 671 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,801 Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety We know though, that he didn't get 672 00:38:23,881 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: rid of that car until the spring of nineteen ninety one. 673 00:38:27,161 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 2: By the way, in his police statement, Robbie admitted yes, 674 00:38:30,321 --> 00:38:32,401 Speaker 2: he had had sex with a girl on the way 675 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 2: to Hot Springs in the incident Sandra described, but he 676 00:38:35,561 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 2: said the girl told him she was eighteen. It turned out. 677 00:38:39,281 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 2: He said she was only fourteen or fifteen years old 678 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,281 Speaker 2: at the time. Other odd thing about this case file. 679 00:38:45,321 --> 00:38:49,401 Speaker 2: There are polygraph examinations of several people, all of whom 680 00:38:49,481 --> 00:38:53,801 Speaker 2: passed their polygraphs, but there is not a polygraph of 681 00:38:53,881 --> 00:38:57,121 Speaker 2: Robbie Tubbs. It would appear that he failed based on 682 00:38:57,121 --> 00:38:59,561 Speaker 2: what investigators said, but we have no idea what happened 683 00:38:59,601 --> 00:39:02,841 Speaker 2: to that polygraph. I wonder why it's not part of 684 00:39:02,841 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: the case file. The man who discovered Christina's body with 685 00:39:07,481 --> 00:39:10,721 Speaker 2: his young son told us something else that the sheriff 686 00:39:10,761 --> 00:39:15,041 Speaker 2: believed Christina had been dumped further upstream and then floated 687 00:39:15,081 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 2: down toward where she was eventually found. The sheriff at 688 00:39:18,481 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 2: the time told this man that if Christina didn't get 689 00:39:22,041 --> 00:39:24,401 Speaker 2: hung up on one of those branches, she would have 690 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 2: floated out to the bayou and eventually to the Saint 691 00:39:27,201 --> 00:39:31,321 Speaker 2: Francis River. Like we said earlier, it seems to go 692 00:39:31,401 --> 00:39:35,161 Speaker 2: on forever. I haven't been able to make contact with 693 00:39:35,201 --> 00:39:37,681 Speaker 2: the sheriff at the time, Sheriff Huey, though, I have 694 00:39:37,801 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: found out where he drinks coffee most mornings, so that's 695 00:39:40,561 --> 00:39:44,921 Speaker 2: a start. But if this theory about Christina being dumped 696 00:39:45,001 --> 00:39:49,241 Speaker 2: further upstream, is right. That would explain while Morgan Davis 697 00:39:49,281 --> 00:39:52,281 Speaker 2: and his friends didn't see any sign of her or 698 00:39:52,321 --> 00:39:55,721 Speaker 2: of any other stranger that night, they also didn't hear 699 00:39:55,761 --> 00:39:59,601 Speaker 2: anyone screaming for help. It is possible if this was 700 00:39:59,681 --> 00:40:03,441 Speaker 2: some kind of accident, maybe Christina fell in and drowned quickly. 701 00:40:03,921 --> 00:40:08,281 Speaker 2: We know she couldn't swim, and drownings can happen fast. 702 00:40:08,681 --> 00:40:11,841 Speaker 2: But I believe the evidence points to Christina being driven 703 00:40:11,881 --> 00:40:12,601 Speaker 2: out to that ditch. 704 00:40:13,241 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 4: I agree with the police here. 705 00:40:15,121 --> 00:40:17,601 Speaker 2: I believe that it's very possible that she was thrown 706 00:40:17,641 --> 00:40:20,761 Speaker 2: in that water while she was either unconscious or dying. 707 00:40:21,761 --> 00:40:25,721 Speaker 2: If that happened, it was dark that night, So I'm 708 00:40:25,761 --> 00:40:29,761 Speaker 2: asking myself, is it possible that Christina could have floated 709 00:40:29,841 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 2: right past them in their boat? And I'm thinking about 710 00:40:34,201 --> 00:40:37,921 Speaker 2: something else the sheriff said when he said if she 711 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,801 Speaker 2: didn't get caught, if she wasn't entangled on that branch, 712 00:40:41,601 --> 00:40:43,361 Speaker 2: she would have floated right out to the river with 713 00:40:43,401 --> 00:40:47,161 Speaker 2: no knowing about it. The next question that naturally follows 714 00:40:47,281 --> 00:40:51,281 Speaker 2: is are there more bodies of missing children that floated 715 00:40:51,321 --> 00:40:56,561 Speaker 2: out to the river and were never found. I'm Catherine Townsend. 716 00:40:57,121 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line 717 00:41:03,241 --> 00:41:05,721 Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 718 00:41:06,081 --> 00:41:09,081 Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 719 00:41:09,081 --> 00:41:14,081 Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Music contributed by Ben Solee, Executive producers 720 00:41:14,081 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 2: of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you 721 00:41:18,081 --> 00:41:19,681 Speaker 2: have a case you'd like me and my team to 722 00:41:19,721 --> 00:41:21,761 Speaker 2: look into, you can reach out to us at our 723 00:41:21,801 --> 00:41:25,241 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line six seven eight seven four four six' 724 00:41:25,321 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 2: one four or. Five that's six seven eight seven four 725 00:41:28,681 --> 00:41:33,121 Speaker 2: four six one four. Five please subscribe and leave us 726 00:41:33,121 --> 00:41:42,681 Speaker 2: a review wherever you listen to your Podcasts 727 00:41:49,361 --> 00:41:50,281 Speaker 1: School Of humans