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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I am Holly Fry

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Speaker 1: and I'm Tracy V.

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Speaker 2: Wilson. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I hate when Halloween season ends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's okay. That just means more new things ahead.

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Speaker 2: And because I ended up doing only three in this one,

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Speaker 2: that means I have a list for next year, so

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Speaker 2: we can probably certainly do this one again with new stories.

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Speaker 2: So there were a few things I wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about for each of these.

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Speaker 1: One. In talking about the men who took the picture

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Speaker 1: of the Brown Lady r Ravan and Shira, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find hard substantiation. But there are some folks who have

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Speaker 1: suggested did that those two men were in fact hucksters

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Speaker 1: in their own right, and that they had approached Country

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Speaker 1: Life magazine claiming to be like professional photographers of a

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Speaker 1: very high level, when really they were also planning this thing.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I read suggested that Andrews Shira had

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Speaker 1: actually borrowed the name of his wife, who was a

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Speaker 1: fortune teller at this time. Name, But I and there

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Speaker 1: was an Indrew Shira that that was also working at

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Speaker 1: that time, But I couldn't find substantiation of a relationship

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Speaker 1: between these two people. So I don't know, but it

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Speaker 1: is interesting. I really liked the idea that the damning

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Speaker 1: piece of evidence is that the Brown Lady would have

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Speaker 1: been like four feet tall, which people can be, but

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Speaker 1: she was never reportedly that short, right, And so they're like,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't actually hold up or make sense.

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Speaker 2: And then the resemblance to a statue that could have

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Speaker 2: been used to stage a picture.

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Speaker 1: Right, to do a double exposure situation, right, love all that,

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Speaker 1: love all of it. I also think it's funny that

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't realize. You know, we mentioned we

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Speaker 1: had talked about this on our Spirit Photography episode, which

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Speaker 1: was really about Mumbler, and so this was like a

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Speaker 1: tertiary part of it, so we didn't I didn't dig

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Speaker 1: really deepen it. But I had not found until kind

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Speaker 1: of late in the game the fact that the owner

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Speaker 1: of the house had just published a book about ghosts, right, right, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is all little too coincidental. Like there are even

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Speaker 1: some assessments who think who kind of put it out there? That,

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Speaker 1: like the martian Ess was really irritated by all of

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Speaker 1: this and these men making like a ghost story out

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Speaker 1: of what was supposed to be her her spread, of

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Speaker 1: her beautiful renovation, and I'm like, oh.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what was going on.

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Speaker 1: I think she was down with it. The other thing

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about from our first episode

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Speaker 1: this week is this scenario of a hotel being created

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Speaker 1: out of the old castle and a new construction being

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Speaker 1: added on to it, because I have stayed at one

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Speaker 1: such hotel in Ireland and it is quite cool. I

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Speaker 1: really really enjoy those. Yeah. I've stayed at a couple

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Speaker 1: of castle hotels in Ireland, one of which I could

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Speaker 1: have believed pretty easily was haunted. I'm not really especially

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Speaker 1: especially superstitious. I'm very skeptical, but Brian and I were

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Speaker 1: both like, yeah, if there is one, this is probably

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Speaker 1: the one. But I will stay in those all day,

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Speaker 1: every day. I love those. Yeah, I love that Bally

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Speaker 1: Galley just leans right into the whole thing and it's like,

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Speaker 1: would you like to see our ghosts? She's right up here,

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Speaker 1: like this is her house. That's fine. I think that's

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Speaker 1: super fun and now I want to go there. It's

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Speaker 1: one more place on my list. M Okay. I promised

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Speaker 1: we would talk about William Drury and some weirdness because

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Speaker 1: a lot there are two interesting things. There are many

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Speaker 1: more interesting things. There are two interesting things. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to mention.

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Speaker 2: This one is that a lot of times when you

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Speaker 2: see information about William Drury and I mentioned we didn't

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Speaker 2: have much, there is a piece of supposition that happens

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Speaker 2: that becomes problematic in its own right where they use

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Speaker 2: the slur that is often used today to refer to

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Speaker 2: Romeny people or travelers, and it kind of buis into

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Speaker 2: that whole thing that those people cannot be trusted. Clearly,

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Speaker 2: it was a group of Romney who he was part of,

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Speaker 2: and they were all trying to do this thing because

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Speaker 2: they are inherently aggressive and cruel, and it's just like

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Speaker 2: it's all supposition. There is no backup on any of that, right,

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Speaker 2: and so that's an element to the story that you

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Speaker 2: can't really substantiate because one we don't know for sure

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Speaker 2: that that's the case.

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Speaker 1: Two people that are making those comments often aren't the

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Speaker 1: ones who were involved in it. So it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like an after the fact kind of racist take on

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Speaker 1: the whole scene. Yeah, which is just super weird. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's common, it's not weird in terms of being an outlier.

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Speaker 1: We see it all the time, but it's just that

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Speaker 1: thing of I don't understand this thing. It must be

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Speaker 1: the work of these people I already don't trust. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well that's a leap of logic, but all right, right right,

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Speaker 1: and it's fundamentally harmful. So I wanted to mention it

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Speaker 1: in case any of our listeners, because I know sometimes

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Speaker 1: people like to go and look up stuff that we've

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Speaker 1: talked about and dig a little deeper on their own, like,

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Speaker 1: be prepared, you will see all of that. It's not

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Speaker 1: not cool. There were so many rumors that got started

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Speaker 1: in the immediate aftermath of the Mampison situation. One that

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Speaker 1: somebody started, and we don't know where it began, was

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Speaker 1: that Glanville had changed his mind and no longer believed

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Speaker 1: in the veracity of this being, you know, a demonic entity,

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Speaker 1: which was not the case. So it just kind of

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Speaker 1: to me as I got deeper and deeper into looking

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Speaker 1: stuff up on this and trying to, you know, peel

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Speaker 1: the layers of the onion. It's another one of those wonderful,

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Speaker 1: slash sad examples of history as seen through the modern eye.

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Speaker 1: Because we I have mentioned this many times before. We

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Speaker 1: always think we are living through the most and the worst,

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Speaker 1: and like, can you believe we've gotten to this point

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Speaker 1: where people are purposely using disinformation campaigns to manipulate the

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Speaker 1: truth and what people believe in. Well, this was the

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Speaker 1: sixteen sixties. It was happening then, So like, this is

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Speaker 1: not a new thing to the modern world. It's reassuring

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Speaker 1: to know that we haven't, you know, necessarily reached Uh,

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Speaker 1: this isn't the result of like the apex of humans

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Speaker 1: being progressively more horrible that we are doing such things.

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Speaker 1: But it's also sad because we've never learned from our

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Speaker 1: mistakes anyway. That just stuck out to me. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm a ghosty person. Yeah, not really. I

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Speaker 1: say that I was raised in a house where one

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Speaker 1: of my parents was enough into these things that there's

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Speaker 1: part of me. It's like, ah, I don't know. Maybe, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not adamant about anything, frankly, because it's one of

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Speaker 1: those one of those things, you know. I hope there

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Speaker 1: are ghosts because I want to be one. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I want to find a cute bar and

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Speaker 1: be its ghosts hang out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a cabin that I stayed in I

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Speaker 2: might have told this story on the show before. I

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Speaker 2: was in Black Mountain, North Carolina, and a couple of

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Speaker 2: very kind neighbors allowed me to stay in it for

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Speaker 2: an extraordinarily small amount of money while I was in

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Speaker 2: massage school.

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Speaker 1: Nice and it.

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Speaker 2: Was like very old had been built by people who

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Speaker 2: were like farming this little bit of land in western

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Speaker 2: North Carolina, and then like a Sears Kit mother in

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Speaker 2: law cottage had been built onto it in like the

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, and like I stayed in the Sears Kit

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Speaker 2: house and the original log cabin structure had all of

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Speaker 2: this stuff that had belonged to the parents of the

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Speaker 2: person the people who owned the cabin now like from

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Speaker 2: places they travel.

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Speaker 1: It was really cool.

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Speaker 2: And I I went in there after dark one night

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Speaker 2: to put away a hammock so that it wouldn't get

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Speaker 2: wet and mildewy from being out in the dew right.

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Speaker 2: And I walked into the cabin and it was like

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Speaker 2: all the hairs on the back of my neck stood up,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, nope, And I put the hammock

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Speaker 2: on the nearest location and left and shut the door

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Speaker 2: behind me and locked it and went over into the

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Speaker 2: mother in law suite that had been added on, and like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what was up with that, but I

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Speaker 2: did not want to look into the windows of that

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Speaker 2: cabin after dark for the rest of the time that

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Speaker 2: I stayed there, because I was very sure I might

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Speaker 2: see something looking back at me. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: that cabin is there anymore.

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Speaker 1: In my head, it was like a raccoon, who's like,

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Speaker 1: what is this lady doing here?

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Speaker 2: I later did have an experience where there was a weird,

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Speaker 2: repetitive thumping noise happening in the night that I was like,

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Speaker 2: what the go is coming for me now? And when

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Speaker 2: I got up in the morning, I realized it was

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Speaker 2: apples falling out of the apple tree. But I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that cabin is standing. It's in an area

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Speaker 2: that was like really really hard hit by Helene, Like

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Speaker 2: all the roads around it are still closed, and I

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Speaker 2: honestly I don't know if that was still there at

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Speaker 2: some time before this, because this was twenty something years ago,

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Speaker 2: and the people that I've rented it from were in

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Speaker 2: their elder years when I did that, so who knows.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that whole part of North Carolina is very

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Speaker 2: close to my heart, and so I don't know if

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Speaker 2: anyone else is listening to the show who's from that

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Speaker 2: part of the state in the southeast, Like that's all

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Speaker 2: still really difficult times happening out there.

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Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have had a couple of weird incidents. The one

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Speaker 2: that I always tell people and I know I've told you,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I've told it in a live

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Speaker 2: show was the ghost cat.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where when we were in our old apartment,

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Speaker 1: there was a period of time where Brian and I

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Speaker 1: both independently had been seeing a cat out of the

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Speaker 1: corner of our eyes and couning and realizing there was

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Speaker 1: no cat there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And we had two cats at the time, but

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Speaker 1: it was always like we thought it would be one

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Speaker 1: of them, and we would turn and be like that

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Speaker 1: is neither gg nor zisu, Like what's going on, It's

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Speaker 1: just the stairs. And then there was an incident where

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Speaker 1: we both independently heard very clearly my deceased mother's voice

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Speaker 1: and we were like, what the hell was that? And like,

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Speaker 1: I had a not always awesome relationship with my mom, right,

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Speaker 1: but it would be very much in line with her

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Speaker 1: personality for her as a way to like try to

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Speaker 1: build a bridge to show up with an animal, okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so it was like the day after we heard

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Speaker 1: about that, some friends contacted us and we're like, we

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Speaker 1: found and the cat we had both seen was a

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Speaker 1: solid gray cat. And our friend was like, I found

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Speaker 1: these gray kittens, right, you take kittens. And we were like, jam,

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Speaker 1: did you bring us a cat? Like that's how we

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Speaker 1: got Veers and Ozzl. Hey to you know, Veers is

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Speaker 1: no longer with us and Ozl is gonna turn twenty

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Speaker 1: in the Yeah, so it's been a while, but we

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Speaker 1: have always joked that they were brought by my deceased mom. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The day that we moved into this house, you know,

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Speaker 2: with the movers moving all of our furniture and everything,

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Speaker 2: we had gotten sheets on the bed. We were going

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Speaker 2: to bed for our first night in this house that

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Speaker 2: we live in now, and I felt the sensation of

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Speaker 2: a cat jumping up onto the bed and like, we

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Speaker 2: don't have We did not have any cats at that time, right,

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Speaker 2: But that was my only experience with ghost cat in

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Speaker 2: the house.

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Speaker 1: I did have one other weird one that happened in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco when we were staying at a hotel there

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Speaker 1: that is rumored to be haunted. And there was one

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Speaker 1: night there were two things. One thing we solved on

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Speaker 1: our own, and we laughed at ourselves, and then I

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Speaker 1: was relaxed. And then something else happened, which is in

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Speaker 1: one night we were in bed and we heard like

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Speaker 1: a jingling noise and it just was persistent. Then it

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Speaker 1: sounded like it was coming from the closet, and we

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Speaker 1: eventually like it wouldn't stop, and we got up and

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Speaker 1: we turned on the lights and we went and we

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Speaker 1: realized that there was a little a little like hole

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Speaker 1: in the wall through which some plumbing passed and the fitting,

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Speaker 1: like a fitting that would normally close that whole, like

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Speaker 1: seal it off, had come loose, and that was what

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Speaker 1: was jingling. We were like, ha ha ha, we've been

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Speaker 1: taken in. And then the next day Brian was taking

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Speaker 1: a shower and I was like, I'm gonna lie down

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Speaker 1: and get a nap while you take a shower. And

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Speaker 1: I felt just what felt like someone scratching their fingernails

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Speaker 1: gently on my back, and I just said, no, thank you.

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Speaker 1: What's the end of it. But for all I know,

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Speaker 1: it was like a bug that I never found. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it was. It did scare, the scare

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Speaker 1: the who sits out of me For a moment, I

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Speaker 1: was just like, ah, all right, no thank you. That's

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Speaker 1: literally how I would talk to a ghost. No thank you, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ski dadd all. If they were a ghost, I hope

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Speaker 1: they were not offended. But I mean not wanting to chat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I hope to be a ghost one day. Because

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Speaker 1: I have plants. That's outside of the Hauna mansion. I

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Speaker 1: have plants. There will be hauntings. I hope since we

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Speaker 1: are now, as you're listening to this just past Halloween season,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you had a wonderful Halloween, if that

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Speaker 1: is a holiday that you celebrate. If you don't like Halloween,

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Speaker 1: I hope that you can live in the relief that

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Speaker 1: it's all over, unless you come to my house where

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Speaker 1: it never ends. We are going to be back here

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Speaker 1: tomorrow with a classic, and then on Monday we will

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Speaker 1: have a new episode.

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Speaker 2: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.