1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Talking Politics. I hope you all had a 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: great week. There's so much going on. I want to 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: talk a little about Iran and then what Iran's actually about. 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: And I have a great guest joining later in the 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: show to talk about what Republicans are thinking as they're 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: heading into an election amidst one bad headline after another. 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: But let's start with Iran. And look, let me say, 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not anti war, but I don't like this war. 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: I don't think we should be in this war. I 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: don't believe the reasons Trump is saying that we're in 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: this war, and I don't support the reasons I think 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: we're actually in this war. But we're here, and I'm 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: rooting for our success. However, that's defined in a war 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: where the goal and the mission have not been defined. 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: If it feels hard to see clearly right now, especially 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to the war in Iran, you're not alone. 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: We've not been told specifically what our intentions there are, 18 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: what the end goal is, how long will be there, 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: whether there will be boots on the ground. The messages 20 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: on this war have been mixed, to say the least. 21 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: If you ask President Trump, he'll tell you, We've already won. 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: We've already won the war in Iran. He was asked 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: for an update by Axios on Wednesday, and Trump sounded 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: like he was talking about the progress on one of 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: his hotels. He said, the war's going great. We're way 26 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: ahead of the timetable. We've done more damage than we 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: thought possible, even in the original six week period. Then 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: he offered, there's practically nothing left to target. As for 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: an ending, he said, anytime I wanted to end, it 30 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: will end. The war is going great. How exactly are 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: we measuring that? And what's the timetable that he referred to, 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: and what's the original six week period he's referring to? 33 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: And shouldn't it end when the mission's achieved and not 34 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: like when Trump simply gets bored of it. His administration 35 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: has simultaneously given no rationale to justify our strikes in Iran. 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: They did not prove that we were the target of 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: an imminent attack, but also all the reasons why we 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: had to go and invade Iran from regime change to 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: oil to support for israel I. Mean, they've named every 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: possible reason while also not naming the goal. It sent 41 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: mixed messages on timing, promising both that it's practically over 42 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: and that it could take a while, and it's been 43 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: unreliable in its own accounting of what's actually happened. Have 44 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: we decimated Iran's nukes? Because I thought we did that 45 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: last year? So I was told who's responsible for the 46 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: attack that killed one hundred and forty school children in Iran? 47 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: We still have no answers to these really important questions. 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: And when pressed on the school attack, for one, Trump 49 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: has said everything from Iran was responsible for it to 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: most recently I don't know about it. An initial report 51 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: determined the US was at fault. The US struck that 52 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: school as the result of a targeting mistake. Okay, As 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: for the nukes, which the White House declared were obliterated 54 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: last June, our own intelligence assessment just found that Iran 55 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: can still right now, can still access about sixty percent 56 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: of its enriched materials stored at Eskahan. And as the 57 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: non partisan Arms Control Association notes, all those strikes can 58 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: set back Iran's nuclear program and destroy keat infrastructure. Military 59 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: force cannot eliminate Tehran's proliferation risk. They're going to get 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: right back to enriching uranium, I promise you, just like 61 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: they did after Trump quote unquote obliterated their nukes last summer. 62 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: Trump's version of events, as is so often the case, 63 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: isn't based on facts but wish casting, projection, bomb bast 64 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: bluffs and abroad, it isn't working. I took some time 65 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: to go through some European papers to find out what 66 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: they're saying about us. It's not good. In France, for example, 67 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Lamonde calls Trump's treatment of the war a spectacle. Lamb 68 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: basting his celebratory tone. It noted his grotesque joke that 69 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: it's quote more fun to sink Iranian warships than to 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: seize them, and they noted Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's boast 71 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: that quote, we're punching the Iranians while they're down, which 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: is exactly how it should be. 73 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: Ugh. 74 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: Between the two of them, Trump and Hegseeth, we're just 75 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: so gross, guys, We're so gross right now. In The Guardian, 76 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: columnist Raphael Bear points out that the chaos and incompetence 77 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: of Trump's war is a feature, not a bug. He writes, 78 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: regime change was the plan, but Trump finds it easier 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: to change plans than regimes. He says he's one, but 80 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: also that he is more winning to do. This is 81 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: the familiar stage of rhetorical climb down, indicating dawning awareness 82 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: that a problem is more complicated than the president initially thought. 83 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: Complexity resists his whim, it bores him, yep, yep. And 84 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: in Germany's Built, Europe's highest circulating newspaper, they ask a 85 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: very pointed question, which is simply, whose pockets is Trump 86 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: filling with bombs? It declares the clearest winner in the 87 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: biggest Middle East conflict in decades is the US arms 88 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: industry and Trump's sons, who are conveniently now in the 89 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: drone business. So look, the world can see through Trump's charade, 90 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:08,119 Speaker 1: but do American voters. Most polls are showing that more 91 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 1: voters oppose the war than support it. But I'll be honest, 92 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: it's by a shockingly slim margin. This is like a 93 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: sixty forty fifty five forty five breakdown right now, and 94 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: most Republicans, somewhere around eighty percent of Republicans are still 95 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: with Trump on Iran. But here's what I can see clearly, 96 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you can see clearly. President Trump is lost. 97 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: He's decided to go to war with Iran with about 98 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: as much time and consideration as he has for choosing 99 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: between a big mac and a quarter pounder. He doesn't 100 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: know what the end goal is. He doesn't care. He's 101 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: there for the oil. He's there to get rich. He's 102 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: there to distract us from a terrible economy. And the 103 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: fact that he appears in the Epstein Files more times 104 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: than Harry Potter appears in the Harry Potter books. He's 105 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: never fought in a war. He's never had to send 106 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: his sons to fight in a war. He's probably never 107 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: read a book about a war. Because of this, he 108 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: does know how to talk about a war that is 109 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: both brutally and comically obvious, like any time he gets 110 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: in front of a microphone or a camera and says 111 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: literally anything about the war, because whenever he does, he 112 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: sounds less like the President of the United States and 113 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: more like a kid who just got the conch. I 114 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: just want to share a few things he's said about 115 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: the war, just to show you how out of his 116 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 1: depths he is. Take a listen. 117 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: We did a little excursion. 118 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: We had to take this little couple of weeks, few 119 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: weeks of excursion, but it's been incredible or military is unbelievable. 120 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: The job they are duly a little excursion. A little 121 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: excursion is what you take when your cruise ship gets 122 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: to port. It's not how you talk about a war. 123 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: Next shot, I. 124 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 3: Would say to put it mildly way ahead a schedule. 125 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: Okay, This is how you describe the ongoing renovation to 126 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: your basement or the group project you have to turn 127 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: in for ap bio. This is not how you talk 128 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: about a war. 129 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: Next shot, We're not leaving until that job is finished, 130 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: and it's going to be very fast. It's going to 131 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: be very fast. 132 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: This is also not what you say about a war. 133 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: This is what your contractor says when you ask how 134 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: long it's going to take to install new kitchen cabinets. Now, 135 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: here's what Trump said about the Strait of Hormuz, which 136 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: Iran has effectively closed. Straight of Hormos is a major 137 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: commercial waterway through which twenty percent of the world's oil flows, 138 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: and Iran's been attacking the ships in it since this 139 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: war started. Here's what Trump said about that. 140 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 3: And now we're going to look very strongly at the straits. 141 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,479 Speaker 3: The straits are in great shape. 142 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: Straits are in great shape. It's fundamentally untrue. There have 143 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: been twenty two reported attacks on ships in the Straits 144 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: since this war started. They're in great shape. What does 145 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: that even mean. That's how your mom describes the saucepan 146 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: set she's been saving for you for when you went 147 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: away to college. That's not how you describe the site 148 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: of major kinetic activity that's closing off the flow of 149 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: a major global commodity. Okay. Next, Trump was asked when 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: the war will end. Here's how that went on board. 151 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 2: You need to do militarily for this operation to end. 152 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: More the same, and we'll see how that all comes Okay. 153 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: The question was what more do you need to do 154 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: militarily to end of this operation? He says, more of 155 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: the same, and we'll see how that all comes out. 156 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: That's not a substantive answer. That's what you say when 157 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: you don't know, or that's what you say. That's what 158 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: your bikini waxer says when you ask how much longer? 159 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: She says, more of the same, and we'll see how 160 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: it all comes out. Next, Trump is asked about the 161 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: strike on the Iranian school. Here's what he said, and you. 162 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 2: Afford said, the military investation has found it was the 163 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 2: United States that struck the school. 164 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 3: I don't know about it. 165 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Who does? Who is the 166 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: person we could call up who would know about that? 167 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: Who would know who struck an Iranian school that killed 168 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty children? Who would know? If you don't, 169 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. That's what you say when 170 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: your mom asks why her car is out of gas. 171 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: It's not what you say about a strike that killed 172 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty kids. Next time. 173 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 3: We've already won in many ways, but we haven't won enough. 174 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: We go forward more determined than to achieve ultimate victory 175 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: that will end this long running danger once and for all. 176 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: This is how you talk after only four people show 177 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: up to your college protest. This is what you say 178 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: when you're fumigating your apartment for cockroaches. This is what 179 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: you say when Canada drops out of the Kyoto Protocol. 180 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: This is not how you talk about a war. He 181 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: says some other things that we don't have sound for, 182 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: but they're worth pointing out. He said, I think the 183 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: war is very much complete, pretty much. Is that an 184 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: actual sentence from the President of the United States. Very much, complete, 185 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: pretty much. That's what you say when you send a giant, 186 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: a Spaniard, and a masked man to go kidnap the princess. 187 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: That is not what you say about a war that's 188 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: killing art troops and innocent civilians. Trump was asked whether 189 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: he had a message for the new Supreme leader. He said, 190 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: I have no message for him, none whatsoever. That's what 191 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: you say when you find your husband's profile, not how 192 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: you talk about a war or a new leader you 193 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: may need to negotiate with at some point. He was 194 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: asked about Iron's capabilities, and he said, they've shot everything 195 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: they have to shoot, and they better not try anything 196 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: cute or it's gonna be the end of that country. 197 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: This is unserious, you guys. This is how you talk 198 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: when you're about to roll three red dice in risk. 199 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: This is what Gargamel says to Asrael when he's about 200 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: to capture a smurf to turn it into a potion. 201 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: This is how the US men's basketball team talks when 202 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: it plays Luxembourg at the Olympics. This is not how 203 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: you talk about a war. Honestly, listening to Trump talk 204 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: about wars like listening to my dad talk about the 205 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: Real Housewives. All the names are wrong, he doesn't know 206 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: where anyone's from, and he's entering twenty year old storylines 207 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: without having watched a single episode. Except this isn't my dad, 208 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: this is the president and a war that's already seen casualties. 209 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: I think the lesson here is if you don't know 210 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: how to talk about a war, you probably shouldn't conduct one. Okay, 211 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: when we come back, Charlie Dent joins the conversation. Don't 212 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: go anywhere, Welcome back to talking politics. My guest today 213 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: is a friend and colleague. You've seen him on CNN 214 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: and MS now. Charlie Dent was a Republican member of 215 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: the House of Pennsylvania for Pennsylvania's fifteenth congressional district from 216 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: twenty five to twenty eighteen. Welcome to the pod, Congressman Dent. 217 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 2: Hey s C great to be back with you. Good 218 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 2: seeing you again. 219 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: It's always good to see you, and I'm really glad 220 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: you're here to get your take. I just want to 221 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: read you some headlines from this week, Charlie, just this week, okay. 222 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Stuart Varney declares Iran war not going that well as 223 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: oil prices rise mortgage rates increase due to Trump's Iran 224 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: war and inflation concerns. Forty eight percent of Americans blamed 225 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: Trump for high gas prices more than any other factor. 226 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: Trump brags about roaring phenomenal economy as jobs and stocks crater. 227 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: Trump brags about high oil prices as Americans bail at 228 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: the pump. US economy grew just seven percent I'm sorry, 229 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: zero point seven percent last quarter. And finally, nobody gives 230 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: an f about housing. Trump reportedly shouted about Senate Bill Charlie. 231 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: These would be very bad, very troubling headlines like any time, 232 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: but it's an election year. I know Trump doesn't care 233 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: about that, but don't Republicans. 234 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: Well they should, especially given the approval numbers for the president. 235 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: They ought to be concerned because well, you know, the 236 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: president's name is not on the ballot. He is, he 237 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: most certainly is on the ballot, and voters are angry 238 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: at the president. They're going to take a lot of 239 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: voters are going to take it out on on his party. 240 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: So if are Republican, I be alarmed by many of 241 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: the things that are happening. All this focus on you know, 242 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: building ballrooms and you know, arches of course, the foreign 243 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 2: entanglements when he had promised that this was going to 244 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: do just the opposite. Uh and and lack of focus 245 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: on the domestic economy and particularly prices, an unnecessary and 246 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: destructive trade war that that the Supreme Court of course 247 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: has stepped in and thrown out the tariffs under APA, 248 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: and now Trump is trying to reinstate them and various 249 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: under various other authorities. So none of this is really 250 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: a particularly is very good at all. And you forgot 251 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: to mention food prices now that this war in Iran 252 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: is affecting fertilizer costs, it's affecting food generally. There are 253 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: certain things that we get from the Middle East that 254 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: are also stuck. It's not just oil that flows through 255 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: the Strait of Horror moves. There's various other commodities as well. 256 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: So there's a lot here that it's not going well. 257 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: But the look, all these midterm elections are always a 258 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 2: referendum on the president of the United States and his policies, 259 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: and in this case, it's going to be referendum on 260 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, the economy and his conduct in office. 261 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: If you were still in the House, what kind of 262 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: conversations would you be having with your colleagues or maybe 263 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: even with Mike Johnson. Speaker. 264 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: My conversation with Mike Johnson would be, you know, voters, 265 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: especially in a midterm, want there to be a bit 266 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: of a check on the executive. They want to check, 267 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: might as well be your own party to do it. 268 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: And I would say to the Speaker, you know, your 269 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: job as the Speaker is to protect the institution. Your 270 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: job is not to be the deputy legislative director for 271 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: the White House. Your job is to protect the institution. 272 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: And I'd be I would have been screaming bloody murders, 273 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 2: saying you should have fought back against this mid decade redistricting, right. 274 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: I'd be pushing back on the tariffs, saying these are 275 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: destructive and certainly contrary to what I thought. We're core 276 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 2: Republican principles about the opening markets for our producers. Instead 277 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 2: we're making it harder for our producers. I mean, I'd 278 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: be fighting like hell, pushing back saying, you know, why 279 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: don't we stand up for certain things that we believe? 280 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: And it's okay, you know we can have different views 281 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: than the president on some issues, Well we agree with them, great, 282 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: but when we disagree with them. You know, we don't 283 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: have to roll weak. Congress in the Republican Conference in particular, 284 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: does not have to roll over and embrace policies that 285 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: they know are bad for their constituents and for the country. 286 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: Your constituents in let you know, let's say you're still 287 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: in the House. Your constituents in you know, Pennsylvania steel towns, right, 288 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: what kind of conversations do you think they're having right now. 289 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: Saying conversations everybody else's have and they're yeah, they're in 290 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: the Lehigh Valley area. It's actually, you know, it was 291 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: at once a great steel producing area. It is not anymore, 292 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: but it is a very dynamic, robust area. It's a 293 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 2: great economic success story. Actually, Eli Lilly just announced, uh, 294 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 2: you know, a multi billion dollar investment here to make 295 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 2: some of these GLP one drugs, and so, you know, 296 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 2: this is an area that's been doing very very well 297 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 2: on a heavy manufacturing base. But they're worried about things 298 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: like tariffs. These are adding costs to our region's manufacturers. 299 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: I'm not hearing any manufacturers saying this is a good thing. 300 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: People think, because I'm from an area that produced a 301 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: lot of steel, we'd be all in just quite the opposite. 302 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot more steel users here 303 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: than there are steel makers. Yeah, and there are a 304 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: lot more people impacted that way, you know, say on 305 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: steel tariffs. But but the whole point is there, they're 306 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 2: they're angry like everybody else. You know, our housing prices 307 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: here have gone up because of our proximity to New 308 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,239 Speaker 2: York and Philadelphi. Yeah, seventy eight. We have a you know, 309 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: it's a dynamic area, but housing prices are high. You know. 310 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: Obviously we're feeling the effects of grocery prices like everybody else. 311 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: And of course electricity bills are higher than they used 312 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: to be. And now because of the war, gasoline prices 313 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: have again surged. 314 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and those economic headlines I read had to do 315 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: both with tariffs and the war. That's not even touching 316 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: like Epstein's stuff. I mean, I've never seen such a 317 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: disregard in the White House and in the Republican Party 318 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: for bad news, bad polls, bad headlines, bad news. I mean, 319 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: I've just never seen such a disregard in an election 320 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: year for what voters are telling the President and the party. 321 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: What's the strategy here? Do they think that, like there's 322 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: just too much time between now and midterms, and they'll 323 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: forget about all of this stuff. 324 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: I think the White House's political strategy is the same 325 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 2: one that it's always been, which is to simply, you know, 326 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 2: keep the base together, especially the MAGA base. Everything they 327 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: do seems to play to the MAGA base. But there's 328 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: a problem with that. They're the numbers. Poll numbers among 329 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 2: Independents are terrible for Republicans right now, They're just horrible. 330 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: And so that's an issue, you know, certainly because of 331 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: what's been happening with immigration enforcement. You know, the scores 332 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: of Latinos are now turning against GOP, both on immigration 333 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: and on the economy. And so even women. You know, 334 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: if you look at what happened in New Jersey and 335 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 2: in Virginia in the most recent off year election, those 336 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: two women, I think they won women by about twenty 337 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: one points if I'm not mistaken, and and Trump lost 338 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: women in those two states by about six points, So 339 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 2: that that's a big that's a big flip there. Yeah, 340 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: But if you're in one of these suburban New Jersey 341 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: or eastern Pennsylvania seats that are competitive, or one of 342 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 2: those suburban New York seats. I can't imagine that you 343 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: just simply can't play to your base and expect that 344 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 2: to carry the day because you're basically isn't big enough. 345 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: You need to win independence And in some cases in 346 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: my old district, depending on the election cycle, I needed 347 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 2: to win twenty to thirty percent of the Democrats. So, 348 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: I mean, how do you do that if you're just 349 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 2: you know, wave in a maga flag. 350 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: Every day and write them off completely. And speaking of seats, 351 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of members are retiring besides upsetting the math, 352 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: Like how badly does that bode for the party. 353 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: Well, look, when you're the incumbent party, you're the Speaker 354 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: of the House, you want as many of your members 355 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: as possible to seek reelection because they have a better 356 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 2: chance of winning. So look, it's hard to see a 357 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: path for Republicans in the House right now to hold 358 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 2: on to the majority. Hell, they could lose the majority 359 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: before the election at this rate, if there are any 360 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: more or resignations or you know, God forbid a death. 361 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: You know, there's no one Neil done who's not in 362 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 2: good health. Yeah, you know, so, I mean, but they 363 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: could they could easily slip to the minority. Before the election, 364 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: and so but I mean, I just I'm just trying 365 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: to see how you get there. I mean, there's anything 366 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 2: can happen in politics, but it just don't see the 367 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: path forward in the House, and even the Senate, which 368 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: you know, a few months back, you know, we thought 369 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: was okay, you know, lean lean Republican. Now looks like 370 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 2: the Senate's a toss up. And so none of this 371 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: is good. And the retirements, the retirements are certainly making 372 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 2: the task for Speaker Johnson and Leader Thomed much harder. 373 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: I was just with Jeff Flake at CNN and you know, 374 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: you guys left the Hill around the same time. 375 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: My paddle ball partner for years. 376 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just love him, and I mean the 377 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 1: two of you, both of you just remind me of 378 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: such a bygone era, even though it wasn't that long ago. 379 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: Can we ever get back to your time when lawmakers 380 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: were like you, sent in civil and sober and wanted 381 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: to solve problems and that was rewarded or is that 382 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: just over. 383 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 2: Well, you know, the the whole U political vocabulary, the 384 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 2: rhetoric has gotten so toxic. I mean, just look at 385 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 2: the last day. I mean, Tommy Tuverville and others are 386 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 2: out there saying really horrible things about Muslims. 387 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 388 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: Uh, and you know, you just see you just see 389 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: it all the time on a daily basis. And you know, 390 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: Frankly the president, you know, his he's very he makes 391 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: these incendiary comments himself routinely. Uh you know what he 392 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: just did with the Obamas posting the ape photographs images, 393 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, by any other standard, we would yeah, that's 394 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: that's like, that's just out of the closet racism, you know, 395 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 2: just take the hood off, you know. Just but but 396 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 2: I mean that's where we are. And you know, and 397 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: like Jeff Flake, you know, I was he and I 398 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: are really good friends. And you know, he was in 399 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: the house. You know, it was a little bit of 400 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 2: a while. Man. He would probably tell you that, you know, 401 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: he would vote against just about everything. He was purely libertarian. Yeah, 402 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 2: but he always did it with a smile on his face. 403 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 2: And he was always you know, and everybody liked them. 404 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: I mean uh, and he had his you know, he 405 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: had strong views. He was highly principled. But nowadays there's 406 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: very little tolerance for any type of dissent within the conference, 407 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 2: on within the party, on any issue that this whole 408 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: thing about Magga. You know, Trump is right about something, 409 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 2: you know, maggit is whatever he says, it is right 410 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: and and and you know, many of us thought, okay, 411 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: if there is some defining aspect of trump Ism, I 412 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 2: thought it was okay, it was isolationism, protectionism, nativism, you know, 413 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: a lot of it's a lot of nationals, a lot 414 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: of things like that, and nihilism, populism. You know, now 415 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: it's turned into adventurism. You know, maybe the isolationism is 416 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: less of an issue. It's not a coher yeah, imperialism, 417 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: it's not a it's not a it's not a coherent 418 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: governing philosophy. And you know, and you may remember se 419 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: two prior to Donald Trump coming on this on the stage, 420 00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: you know, we used to have what I used to 421 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: call self designated chiefs of the Republican Purity Police. All 422 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: these outside groups like Heritage Action, Club for Growth, always 423 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: telling us that's right, we needed to be ideologically doctrinaire, 424 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 2: that we had to be you know, we had to 425 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: be loyal to principle. And if we weren't, we were 426 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: a rhino, a squish of bed wetter. You know. We 427 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 2: were called all kinds of disparaging names. And here comes 428 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. You know, we can agree on one thing 429 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 2: about Donald Trump. He is not doctrinaire, is right, And 430 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: he's all over the place, and and and those guys 431 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: were flummoxed by it. And so all these guys who 432 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 2: are all big time free traders. 433 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 4: And all of big bail farmers, I mean, talks all 434 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 4: out the window, all out the window, and the new 435 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 4: litmus test became fidelity to one man. 436 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: And that's how they wanted to stay relevant and continue 437 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 2: to raise money. So I'm convinced that a lot of 438 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 2: our politics is just driven by people who are in 439 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: the ecosystem, both right and left, who want to stay relevant, 440 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 2: and they can never deviate, uh from their orthodoxies whatever 441 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: they are. They can't deviate because there's a financial interest 442 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 2: that they're going to be upsetting, it seems, uh. And 443 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 2: you know, there's it's really sad in our country is 444 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: we used to have parties that did tolerate some certain 445 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 2: degree of ideological diversity within them, and it had a 446 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: moderating effect on how we used to operate, right and 447 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 2: now now there's there's a there's a demand for conformity 448 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 2: in both parties. 449 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I used I haven't been to Seapack 450 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: in years, but I used to go to Seapack, and 451 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 1: I'm sure you remember, uh this. 452 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 2: I never went. I never went. I never went because 453 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: I was I always thought it was a clown show. 454 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: Well I was always that. But you could go to 455 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: Sea Pack, you know, and see like the Ron Paul 456 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 1: is over here, the religious right, the ralph Reads over here. 457 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Of course there were the tricorn hat people, but also 458 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: like there were civil liberties people and libertarians over here. 459 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: And you know, we did tolerate a lot inside the party, 460 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: and we fancied ourselves a big tent party. And that 461 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: all changed. It actually changed before Trump. It kind of 462 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: changed when the Tea Party came in and populism started 463 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: dictating where the party was going. But I really miss 464 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: the time that we opened our arms to get more 465 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: voters inside the tent, whereas now Trump is actively kicking 466 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: good conservatives, right, good conservatives like Adam Kinsinger and Liz 467 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: Cheney and you and Jeff Flake, like, you know, pushing 468 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: people out of the party. It's just so gross, and 469 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: I just don't understand the endgame. I understand the short 470 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: term gain was just to get Donald Trump in power. 471 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 1: But what is the long term goal here when it 472 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: comes to the health and survival of the Republican Party. 473 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: Well, it's always been a problem. You know, the party 474 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 2: was always supposed to be about addition, not subtraction, multi multiplication, 475 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: not the vision you know, we were supposed to. We're 476 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: trying to get more people into the tent. And then 477 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: you know, it's not a club. We're trying to get 478 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 2: people in. We're not trying to throw people out. They 479 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: want to, they want to excommunicate heretics all the time. 480 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: But the problem is they they say, but they'll tell 481 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: you they're a big ten party too. They're letting people 482 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: and the problem is the people they're letting in when 483 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 2: you allow them. The Nick flents Is of the world, 484 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: the Taylor Greens before she was the earlier version, people 485 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 2: like that. We welcome those folks in. And then and 486 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: then we say, boy, but this Cheney and Adam Kins 487 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 2: and you're you're out of step. But you know, but 488 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 2: a flent Is and Marjorie Taylor Green, your consideration all good. Yeah, 489 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: So that's what's really bizarre. So okay, so you're these 490 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 2: were once considered extreme voices that were always not permitted 491 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 2: within the party structure, have been unfortunately, uh welcomed in 492 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: and in too many cases these people who used to 493 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: be on the fringes you now have it, now have 494 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 2: a seat on the stage. 495 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Yep. It's super interests and really disheartening and disorienting for 496 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: a movement conservative like myself, Charlie. We end with an 497 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: exit poll, which is three questions of varying degrees of seriousness. 498 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: The first question is what is your favorite movie about politics? 499 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: About politics? Oh, Darkest Hour, it's the British It's about 500 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 2: the you know, nineteen forty World War two, the inside 501 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: politics of the Tories, you know, with Winston Churchill, Lord Halifax, 502 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 2: you know, all leading up to you know, his great 503 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: speech about you know, we She'll Never Surrender. That's a 504 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: it's a wonderful movie. 505 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: Oh great, we haven't heard that one. That's great. Love it. 506 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: Who is someone you admire on the other side of 507 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: the aisle? 508 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: You know, I really like Senator Chris Coombs of Delaware. 509 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: You know, he's a very sincere individual. He you know, 510 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 2: he tries to work with people on both sides. He's 511 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: he's he's just a good guy. He's very approachable, he 512 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: cares about a lot of things, and I thought he was. 513 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 2: I liked working with him within Congress and now that 514 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 2: I'm outside over at the Aspen Institute. But somebody like that, 515 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: that's he's a He's terrific, I think. Yeah. 516 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: And finally, Charlie Dent, how do we save our democracy? 517 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? 518 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: I think it comes back down to people, you know, 519 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: this ordinary people. You know, I'm disappointed by some of 520 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: my friends in the business community who, you know, I 521 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: get it that they have to be worried about their 522 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 2: shareholders and their bottom line. But I've learned that, you know, 523 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: we can't rely on American business to protect democratic institutions. Yeah, 524 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: they need to protect their their bottom lines and their shareholders. 525 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: So I guess I kind of understand that. So, you know, 526 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: we're not going to get that kind of leadership out 527 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: of maybe some of the what I used to consider, 528 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 2: you know, the the establishment, you know, corporate community. But 529 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: what I think will happen is if ordinary Americans continue 530 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: to express themselves. They have a great way of self correcting, 531 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 2: and they, you know, like I have, I still have 532 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: faith and confidence that our institutions are a little stronger 533 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: than we like to believe. 534 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 3: That. 535 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: You know, the courts have stood up on the Trump 536 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: on say things like tariffs. I've seen other areas where 537 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 2: you know, people are standing up and saying enough is enough. 538 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: I mean, look, we even as a Republican who was 539 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: involved with very much involved with the Homeland Security when 540 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: I was in Congress, I was on the committee when 541 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: we stood it up, and you know I did the 542 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: Secure Fence Act. They did all we worked on immigration enforcement. 543 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: But to see how these programs have been like, you know, 544 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: how immigration enforcements has gotten so bad. But you know Americans, 545 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: you know who voted for the president, for example, are 546 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: many of them are saying, boy, what did I just do? Yeah, 547 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: And they're going to those same people. Enough of them 548 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 2: are going to self correct and they're going to go 549 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 2: the other way this time and when the Democrats get 550 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: too extreme. You know, That's that's what happened. That's why 551 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: Trump wont again because a lot of those soft Biden 552 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: voters turned around and said, well, you know, I'm not 553 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: too happy where those guys are taking us. They're too 554 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 2: culturally bizarre and yeah and whatever. It didn't like the 555 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: way they were handling the economy too anti business, or 556 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: those sorts of things. Yeah, you know what, I'm going to 557 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 2: give these I'll give Trump and the Republicans another shot, 558 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: but these same folks are going to probably swing back 559 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: again because of the extremes that are are the discomfort 560 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: that they're feeling throughout the country right now. 561 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's a little optimism. I appreciate that. Charlie Den, 562 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me. It was really great 563 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: to see you and talk to you. 564 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, greatly with you too. 565 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: S Stay well and thanks to all of you for 566 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: tuning in. We'll see you next time. Off the Cup 567 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the 568 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: Reason Choice Network. If you want more, check out the 569 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: other Reason Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native 570 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: Land Pod. For Off the Cop, I am your host 571 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: SI Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our 572 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: executive producers are me Si Cop, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. 573 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or 574 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.