1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Book the podcast playground. I'm Buzznight, the host of Taking 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: a Walk Music History on Foot. Follow us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and definitely share the 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: podcast with a friend. Feel free to leave a review 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: as well. We'd appreciate it. 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: Today we have. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: The author of a recent book, You Can't Judge a 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Book by Its Cover. He is musician Ron Young, the 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: founder of the band Little Caesar. He is an amazingly 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: transparent storyteller about this era of hard rock and glam metal. 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: He's had a wild ride and he talks about it here. 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: I'm taking a walk. Well, Ron, thanks for being on 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. It's really great to meet you. Man, 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. It's nice to be here. Describe 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: that first moment that you talk about in the book 16 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: you Can't Judge a Book by Its Cover that hooked 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: you on music. 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: Oh man, it was probably one of the first concerts 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: I ever went to. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: Was was Zeppelin song Remains the Same. 21 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 3: I actually got to see one of those nights at 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 3: Madison Square. 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: Garden and. 24 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 3: Just the power and this it wasn't even you know, 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 3: because they didn't have pyro and huge lights and you 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: know it was like a bunch of guys set up 27 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: twenty feet you know, they didn't have any of that 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: stuff that bands later became dependent on, and just the 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 3: hear power of the music and one of it just 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: tens of thousands of people and it was it was 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: totally intoxicating, and it just stuck with me that it 32 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: must just be so cool to get to do that, 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: you know, as your way of life, you know, So 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 3: it just always stuck with me. 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Well, then you had this other moment too that you 36 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: talk about in the book. Let's just call it the 37 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: hanky panky moment. 38 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: That yes, yes, yes, that's also where I got to 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: see the intoxication of this. 40 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: I was like six years old and I was living in. 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: This big apartment complex in Queensnew and they had this 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 3: big pool party and there was some just local cover 43 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 3: band that was set up. 44 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: Now you know the pools in New York City, in 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: these big, you know, apartment copplex is. We'd have a. 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: Thousand people come there on Saturday and just sit around 47 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: the pool and it was an Olympic sized pool. 48 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: And so this band is playing and. 49 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: When they were taking a break, I was like, I 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 3: would love to sing, you know, and they're like, you know, laugh, laugh, laugh, 51 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 3: and they're. 52 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: Like, what song does you know? 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: And I was like, my baby does the hanky Panky, 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: which I had no idea at six years old, was 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: such a sexually charged song. 56 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: And they thought it would be absolutely. 57 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: Hysterical for a six year old to get up there 58 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: and sing hanky panky, and I did terribly. Of course, 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter just hearing a six year old singing, 60 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: you know, mob, baby does that hanky pky, you know, 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 3: and it's like the irony was lost on me. But 62 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: all these people were laughing and clapping and cheering, and 63 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: it really got in under my skin. 64 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: You know. 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: I was told I was never a musician, but I'm 66 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, got stuck on the music business and the 67 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: radio business got. 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: It in my book. 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't remember this, but I was told in church 70 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: at two years old, I sang this song by Sabian 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: called Turn Me Loose that I don't even remember that song, right, 72 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: but apparently there. 73 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: I was in church singing it so well, you see, 74 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 3: it's uh, it is intoxicated. 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: I'm telling you. So. 76 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: I was a Mets fan. I grew up in Stamford, Connecticut, 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: and you were in that backyard of say stadium, should 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: we uh sing a version of the Meets the Mets 79 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: theme and see if we can really turn everybody off? 80 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: You know, I only yeah, I only remember like the 81 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: first couple of lines. But yes, I was totally in 82 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: the backyard. I was living in a place called Left 83 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 3: Rock City, where literally you could walk over to the 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: world you know, where Shehae Stadium was, which was over 85 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 3: by the World's Fair pavilion. 86 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: And so I used to go to games all the time. 87 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 3: And you know, my brother would take me or cashaw 88 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: I'd go with my dad. And this is when the 89 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: Mets were in the toilet. I mean, these guys were 90 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 3: down in the basement, new team. You know, there was 91 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: maybe five thousand, four thousand people in the whole stadium, 92 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 3: you know, and then over the years, over the next 93 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: four or five years, they started to become the Miracle Mets, 94 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: you know. But I knew all the players and you 95 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: know everything about them, and you know, it was it 96 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 3: was really a huge part of my childhood sort of 97 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: you know, entertainment was going to see Mets games. 98 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: And I think you describe in the book this amazing 99 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: story about Banner Day at Shay stadium, and I think 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: I might have been at that banner day because I 101 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 1: went to a few banner days. Can you tell that story. 102 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nineteen sixty six and the Mets, you know, 103 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: trying to get people out to the park, did this 104 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: thing called Balaty where they invited all the fans down 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: on the field to parade around with banners and compete. 106 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 3: And you know, they had like a three or four prizes, 107 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: and you know, at this point, the grand prize was 108 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: we won, and the grand prize was a black and. 109 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: White Admiral black and white. 110 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 3: Television, a case of tuna fish, you know, as we 111 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: call it New York tuna fish, you know, can tuna. 112 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 3: And this was all they could afford, you know, once 113 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: they became world champions. 114 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 2: You know, it's like a trip to Hawaii. You know. 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: I think years later they'd given away cars and stuff 116 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: like that. No, we got a black and white TV. 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 3: But regrudgingly, my brother brought me down there. 118 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: He wanted to go. My mom made him take me 119 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: to the game, and he came up with this, you know, 120 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: clever little way of you know. 121 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: Dressing us up at six years old. And next thing, 122 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: you know, we're getting pulled into the dugout by these 123 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: famous ballplayers Jerry Groeder, Ronson Boda, Tom Seaver. You know, 124 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: start got to meet all my heroes, and I had 125 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: no idea, you know what this was. And yeah, next thing, 126 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: you know, we're where like we made it into the yearbook, 127 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: and you know, they invited us on television because you know, 128 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: I guess it was quite the novel concept for a 129 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: couple of six year olds to win Banner Day in 130 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: New York. 131 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: You know, and you described, you know that moment and 132 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: certainly you know the hanky panky moment, your moment of 133 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: fame with the New York Post and being on the 134 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: cover with May Lindsey and. 135 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no. And I was on candy camera too. 136 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: They came to my nursery school and they picked me 137 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: and a few other kids to be in a candy camera. 138 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: So here I am six years old. I've already been 139 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: on the cover of a major you know, US newspaper. 140 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: I've been on candy camera. I've been on a show 141 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 3: called Wonderama, which is regional. 142 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: Time, you know. So here I am six years old. 143 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: I've already had these brushes with fame and notoriety, and yeah, 144 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: definitely very addictive, you know, no doubt about that to 145 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: get you know, this is remember this is before social 146 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: media and the internet, you know, so I think there's 147 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: something in the human personality about having attention, you know, 148 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: wanting to be on TikTok or on Twitter, you know, 149 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: and even back then very much, you know, proving the 150 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 3: point that people all want to be their fifteen minutes 151 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: of fame. 152 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: But it was this odd paradox going up in your 153 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: life because you had this horrible phone life that was 154 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: going on, and you were you know, cowering at many 155 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: instances in that environment, but you had that addiction to 156 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: entertaining people. It was a strange paradox. 157 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, psychologically, don't you know. I think it's 158 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 3: you know, when you grow up in a household with 159 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: an alcoholic you know, and who is a drama queen 160 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 3: and wants all the attention, you know, and all you're 161 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 3: trying to do is stay below the radar because. 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: You don't want to fallout that comes with that. 163 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: And then you kind of get out into the world 164 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: and there's these ways of getting the attention. 165 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: You know. 166 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 3: Definitely something truly psychological going on in that whole sort 167 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: of situation, definitely a lot of relief and a lot 168 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: of you know, you know sanctuary. 169 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: So speak. 170 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: On this podcast, we talk frequently about the power of 171 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: what music does for people in challenging times, whether it 172 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: be physical, emotional, mental. Music really was a saving grace 173 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: for you, wasn't it. 174 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt it was. It was an escape mechanism. 175 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: It was a fantasy mechanism, you know, being able to close. 176 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: My eyes and the music. 177 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: Music takes you places, you know, and it and it 178 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 3: paints these sonic. 179 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: Pictures and it tells these sonic stories. 180 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: And you know, when when you're young and impressionable and 181 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 3: these these. 182 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: Things that move you to feel these. 183 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 3: Emotions, it becomes incredibly powerful. And you know, everybody has 184 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 3: songs that have been woven into the fabric. 185 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: Of the their lives. 186 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: You know, you could play a song from high school 187 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 3: and you all of a sudden are taken back to 188 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: the memories, you know, And so music has these sort 189 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 3: of sort of time markers in your life, and it's 190 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 3: such a powerful psychological tool. And I think it's one 191 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: of the things that makes music, you know, just incredibly 192 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 3: powerful and. 193 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: Vital to people's lives. 194 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: So the band Little sees are. I would say the 195 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: band Little Caesar is also this paradox, this paradox of 196 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: success and then this breakdown of the whole system all 197 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: in one. Why do you think it was so complicated? 198 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 3: It was complicated between It was a combination of battles 199 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 3: of enormous egos and just you know, when everything that 200 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 3: could possibly go wrong goes wrong in like a one 201 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 3: month period in a business that doesn't have a lot 202 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: of patience, you know, and then you combine, you combine 203 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 3: adversity with a bunch of people who are trying to 204 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: protect their success, you know, column keep their batting average up, 205 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 3: so to speak. You put all together together, and it's 206 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 3: the perfect storm for a meteoric rise and then a 207 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 3: meteorite fall. 208 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 2: And that's what happened to us. 209 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately, you know, for for us guys in 210 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 3: the band, it's you know, this is our life. 211 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: We're not just a commodity. We weren't just you know, 212 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 2: a name on a roster. 213 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: So it was it was a really complicated whirl wind 214 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: kind of thing that that just kind of. 215 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: Steamrollers you know, the the Geffen years. As I'm reading that, 216 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: and I knew some of the characters from that period 217 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: of time, and they were always very gracious to me, 218 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: people like Marco Babinot as an example. But that era 219 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: the way you describe it. As I'm reading this, if 220 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: it were a movie, it almost reminds me of Part 221 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: Mob Goodfellas, Part three Stooges. 222 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 2: Oh totally, yeah, yeah, now that's a great description. Yeah. 223 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 3: You know, you have these larger than life characters like 224 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 3: John Kalodner, like Marco Babino, like David Geffen, like Jimmy Ivy, like. 225 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: Bob Rock all involved in one project. 226 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: And you know, the little spats and the battles of 227 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 3: the egos, and you know, these are guys that they 228 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: considered themselves rock stars in their own realm in what 229 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: they they did, and they had professional rivalries and they 230 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: had little power struggles, and when you put them all 231 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: involved in one project, more likely than not, you're going 232 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: to get turmoil more than you're going to get alignment. 233 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what wound. 234 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: It happened, and they liked to get it to arguments 235 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: with each other. 236 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: Oh god, they lived for it. I mean, you know, 237 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 3: Jimmy Iveean would love to. 238 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: Get into it with David Geffert you know, John Calodner 239 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: would love to get. 240 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: Into it with with you know, Eddie Rosenblatt and Marco 241 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: Baveno and. 242 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: All of these guys. 243 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 3: You know, they're they got to be where they are 244 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: because they have these enormous personalities egos as big as 245 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: any rock start. The classic example is John Kalodner, who 246 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: on every record puts his name twice, John Kalodner, John Colodney, 247 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: that was hook, you know, to brand himself. 248 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: Who walks around in this white linen suit with this. 249 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: Long brownish hair and John Lenning glasses like he's some 250 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 3: sort of spiritual son guru, and you know, he's got 251 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: this weird kind of voice, you know. And meanwhile it's like, 252 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: we go into his office and I brought him. 253 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: I remember when I brought him a shirt, our first 254 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: little Caesar shirt. And I go in and I give 255 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: him the shirt and I'm like, here, here's here's our 256 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 2: first shirt. You oh oh wait hold out a second, 257 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: let me return the favor. And he opens up his closet. 258 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: And he's got four of his own T shirt designs. 259 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 3: He's got his own merch right, I mean, and it's 260 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: four times as large as our selection of merch, and 261 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 3: I just it dawned on me that these guys are there. 262 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: There is much character as any bandits, you know. 263 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: And then you talk about the amazing Gene Simmons and 264 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: what you learn from being around that character. What did 265 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: you learn from mister Simmons, Oh. 266 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 2: So many things. I mean, Gen g is one of 267 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: those guys that everybody has a love hate relationship. You know. 268 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: He's very outspoken, he's very opinionated, he's very caustic, he's 269 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: very confrontational. He's also inside a sweet guy. There's a 270 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: nice father and husband, and he tries to be helpful 271 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: to people. 272 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: But on the other side of the court, he. 273 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: Will turn around and snuff you like a candle, just 274 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: because it suits. 275 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: His ego, you know. 276 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: And so to be around a character like that and 277 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: to watch him, I mean literally every day on tour 278 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 3: he's holding co He had this he had a couch 279 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: that the crew would bring out and put into the middle, 280 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: like we were doing a lot of outdoor shits, so 281 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: outdoor venue, so they would bring this sort of leather 282 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 3: at couch out into the middle of catering and he'd 283 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 3: come and hold court like he was the Queen of 284 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 3: shiba or job of the hunt, depending on the way 285 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 3: he saw him, you know. 286 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: And he would just sit there and comment. 287 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 3: On women, how they were dressed, what they look like, 288 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 3: what guys were doing, what guys were saying. 289 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: He'd call people over, how him sit down next to him. 290 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: It was it was astounding to watch. And this is 291 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: how he entertained himself. It's almost surreal. Oh, it totally was. 292 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: I mean, because we were like, look at this guy. 293 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 3: He's he's I mean, seriously, you couldn't have written a 294 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 3: character in a movie any any deeper than this guy was. 295 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: And yet on the other side of the corner. 296 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 3: He used to come back backstage every night after our 297 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: set and he would he would give us like like 298 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 3: like a like a coach at halftime, he would he'd 299 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: come back and eat critique. Okay, tonight, this song was 300 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: a little too fast. You guys are moving around on 301 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 3: stage too much. Slow down. 302 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 4: You know, you have to be more exaggerated in your movements, 303 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 4: wear different clothing to I mean, and he he was 304 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 4: vicious in his commentary. 305 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 2: You know, he pulled no punches. 306 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: But the reality is is that eighty ninety percent of 307 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: the time he was right on the money. I mean, 308 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: this is a guy that has been he's been doing 309 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 3: arena shows. You know, this is like our tenth show 310 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: on tour, and this guy has has done this thing 311 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 3: like four or five, six hundred times. 312 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 2: So how could you not take his input as being gospel? 313 00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 2: You know? 314 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: So on one hand, Easter the Drive is crazy because 315 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 3: there was some things that we really disagreed about, and 316 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: then on the other hand, we were really grateful that 317 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 3: he was taking the time to coach us the way 318 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 3: he was, you. 319 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: Know, and come on a genius of merchandising, I mean 320 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: to kiss coughin right, Oh. 321 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: No, this guy invented it. 322 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 3: I mean seriously, I mean the Beatles did merch, but 323 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 3: they took Kean took it to a level that, you know, 324 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 3: was unsurpassed. I mean, I don't think there's one thing 325 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: on this planet that hasn't been made once with a 326 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 3: kiss the logo on it and soul like you say, 327 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: a coffin this probably kissed toilets, you know. I mean, 328 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 3: it's absolutely incredible the amount of things that they stuck 329 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 3: the kiss logo on and sold it. 330 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: And you had this other, uh surreal moment that was 331 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: almost like a an example of a Wharton School of 332 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: Business moment with a big Al from the Salem Hell's 333 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: Angels and Salem, Massachusetts speaking to Steven Tyler from Aerosmith 334 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: about a little situation. Can you tell a little bit 335 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: of that story. 336 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, we did a show for the Hells Angels up 337 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 3: in Boston and we got thrown out of our hotel 338 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 3: because we were misbehaving. It was us and Junkyard. We 339 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 3: were playing together up there and we got thrown out 340 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: of the hotel. So I was like, Okay, come stay 341 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 3: at my house. So I'm staying at Alic's house. 342 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: Now. 343 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 3: I'll big Al as the president of the Salem chapter 344 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 3: in the Hells Angels, and I am not very comfortable, 345 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 3: you know, because here I am, you know, with this 346 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 3: rather large man, with all of these sort of unscrupulous. 347 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: Characters coming in and out of the house. 348 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 3: And I'll get some phone call while I'm there about 349 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: a problem that they're having that. Aerosmith came out with 350 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: a new T shirt designed for their next tour that 351 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 3: looked very how should I say, suspiciously similar to the 352 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: Hells Angels logo, the red and white letters, the lettering 353 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: that they used for Aerosmith in Boston, Massachusetts in Rockers, 354 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 3: and I was like, you know, so listening to ou 355 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 3: get all of this information from some of the other members, 356 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 3: you know, he's doing this due diligence, so to speak. 357 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 3: And he's making notes on a notepad and then he's like, okay, 358 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: I got one more phone call to make, and he 359 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: dials the phone and he's like Steven, yeah, big alp, 360 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I'm good, I'm good. 361 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: You know. 362 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 3: Okay, so listen, word has it is that you've got 363 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: a new T shirt design that looks just like our 364 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 3: logo And he's like, well, listen, you know, I make 365 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: as many excuses as you want, but let me tell 366 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: you that logo is trademarked. The colors the red and 367 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: white in that left he lists this whole long thing 368 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 3: like he's a lawyer in court. Not when I see you, 369 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: I'm gonna break your face or you guys are gonna 370 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: you know, you're gonna fall off the pier in the 371 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: no no threats whatsoever, purely methodical legal jargon, like he 372 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: was some seasoned to two me with threats of injunctions, 373 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: threats of trademark infringement. And he hangs up the phar 374 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 3: and He's like, Okay, well, got that taken care of. 375 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 3: There's gonna be a whole warehouse of T shirts that 376 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: will never see the light of day. And I was 377 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 3: completely blown away by the masterful, not emotional, no threats whatsoever, 378 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: other than using the tools of the legal system which 379 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 3: had been used against gentlemen like this a million times, 380 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: who has now turned the tables and who has gotten 381 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 3: on the phone with someone who knows. 382 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: A thing or two about the music business. 383 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: And completely decimated him on a legal standpoint to do 384 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 3: as of verbal season desist. And it was beautiful, beautiful 385 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 3: to watch. 386 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: And listen to me. 387 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: I love it. So you had an almost moment involving 388 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: the Red Hot Chili Peppers as well, And it was 389 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: this moment in time where Flee was in some harms 390 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: way in terms of what he was doing. 391 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 2: It was Anthony that was harms way. 392 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, yes, Anthony. 393 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: This is nineteen eighty six. I'm living in Los Angeles. 394 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: The Chili Peppers were. 395 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 3: Just you know, they were just a local band that 396 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: was signed to a record deal. 397 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 2: I think this is now. 398 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 3: This is them coming up on the Uplift MOFO Party 399 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 3: Planned record, which is the record that really made him explode. 400 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: And the band that got really tired of. 401 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 3: Anthony's antics, his drug antics, and he was a mess 402 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 3: at the time. 403 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: And you know, at the time hellel was also in 404 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 2: the band. 405 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: He subsequently rounded the volverdosing and dying from heroin. But anyway, 406 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 3: they kicked Anthony out of the band and just they 407 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 3: had figured that there was no Anthony was going to. 408 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 2: Get himself together. He tried a million times. 409 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 3: So I went in and we started to work together 410 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: and write songs together and rehearse together. We started actually 411 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 3: we did demos of the whole record of everything that 412 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 3: I wrote, because I had written the whole set of 413 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: melodies and lyrics for all of these songs, and. 414 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: We demoed them all. 415 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 3: And then the next thing I know, I get a 416 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 3: phone call from Flee saying that Anthony was out of 417 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: rehabit and he was doing great, and you know that 418 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: he was coming back into the band. It was great 419 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 3: because the way he put it was, this is not 420 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 3: about business, this is about family. You know, me and 421 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 3: Anthony are family. We grew up together, We've had each 422 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 3: other's back. He didn't need to explain any further to me. 423 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: I totally understood it, and I totally respected it, you know, 424 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 3: he totally did the right thing. 425 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: And then obviously years later, the. 426 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 3: Band has evolved and Anthony singing is evolved and his 427 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 3: performances have evolved, and it was just that band without 428 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 3: Anthony just wouldn't be as successful for who they are, 429 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 3: you know. So but yeah, one of those almost another 430 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 3: almost famous movements, you know. 431 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: So I read the book and I think about the 432 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: fact of so many trials, tribulations, great moments, lousy moments, 433 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: and so many learnings. So in closing and thinking about that, 434 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: for maybe a musician that is, you know, challenged trying 435 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: to work their way up, that's listening to this podcast, 436 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: what are some lessons that you would pass on that 437 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: you know you learn the hard way. 438 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 2: Well, Always be true to yourself into your music. You 439 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: really believe in something, Stick to your guns. 440 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 3: Don't let some attorney or manager or record company guy. 441 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 2: Or any of those people fear you off of your 442 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: path musically. 443 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 3: The reality is is that any of these people that 444 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 3: come to you to try to do. 445 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: Business with you were attracted to you because of your music. 446 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: Never let them forget that. 447 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 3: Now, there's always other things from a business side, or 448 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: a marketing side. All those things you can be flexible in. 449 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: But you've got to be true to yourself musically, because 450 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: first of all, that's the only way you're going to 451 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: like who looks back in the mirror every morning, because 452 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 3: you stay true to your art and to who you are, 453 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 3: and just stay persistent, stay you know, creative, stay prolific. 454 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: Don't keep reworking the same song ideas over and over 455 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 3: and over again. Just keep writing song or keep trying 456 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 3: to play with as many people that you can, because 457 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 3: each person that you play with will teach you something. 458 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 3: You'll learn something from them, sometimes in a good way, sometimes. 459 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 2: In a bad way. 460 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 3: Sometimes you you know, sometimes you learn what you don't 461 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: want to be, which is can be as helpful as 462 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 3: knowing what you do. 463 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: Want to be. 464 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 3: Never equate commercial success with talent. There's a lot of 465 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 3: really untalented people that become really famous and rich, and 466 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: there's some incredibly talented players that you've never heard of. 467 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 2: One thing has nothing to do with the other. 468 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: Great advice and a great book, a great read. You 469 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: can't judge a book by its cover. Transparency about everything 470 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: and must have been therapeutic for you, Oh totally, yeah, 471 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, but so. 472 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: Like drinking too much and throwing up. You know, it's very. 473 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: Thanks Ron for being on taking a walk my pleasure, 474 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: buzz Thank you so much. 475 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 3: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple 476 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 3: podcast 477 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: Or wherever you get your podcasts.