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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. We're hearing about a

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Speaker 1: lot of cool new COVID treatments, from a nasal vaccine

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Speaker 1: to a pill from Murk. Let's bring in Lauren Sour

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Speaker 1: right now from the Johns Hopkins University. Um, Lauren, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what do you see in terms of the UM the

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Speaker 1: front runner here for the elusive anti viral UH covid quest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think we're also fune by how quickly

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Speaker 1: the vaccine work happened and how how fast we got

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Speaker 1: vaccine into arms and are getting vaccine into arms. That

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Speaker 1: now we can sort of take a breath and think

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Speaker 1: about the therapeutic side and UM really start to ramp

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Speaker 1: up UM the novel approaches. So a lot of the

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Speaker 1: early work was on repurposing drugs and trying out monacola antibodies,

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Speaker 1: trying out complescent plasma UM and and now we're going

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Speaker 1: to see innovation, which I think is great. This, this

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Speaker 1: new UM approach by Mirk and ridge Back is really

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Speaker 1: exciting because a pill is something we don't have right

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Speaker 1: now that can easily be given in the outpatient setting

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Speaker 1: or you know, through a pharmacy or even mail to

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Speaker 1: people UM to really reduce there that individual patients need

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Speaker 1: to come in and and get therapeutic treatment like UM

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Speaker 1: infusion or something like that. So for me, this is

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Speaker 1: a really exciting step. I mean, it's got to go

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Speaker 1: through all the regulatory processes, just like everything else, but

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to see this work. Lauren. You know, I

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Speaker 1: had dinner last night with a group of friends for

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Speaker 1: the first time in a year. You know, we eight outside.

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Speaker 1: We all felt comfortable. But what was acining to me

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Speaker 1: was everybody at the table either had their vaccine or

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Speaker 1: like me, were scheduled to get it the next few days.

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Speaker 1: And we talked a lot about vaccine hesitancy UM. I

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Speaker 1: just you know, there's a lot of folks out there

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Speaker 1: think that this is gonna be a big, big issue.

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Speaker 1: How are you, guys, what do you what do you

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Speaker 1: hearing at the Johns Hopkins University. What's been your experience.

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Speaker 1: I think there is still a lot of vaccine hesitancy,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's been UM in many cases. It's

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Speaker 1: in the communities that are most impacted by COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and we really have to focus our efforts on educating

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Speaker 1: UM people who are vaccine hesitant about the benefits, the

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Speaker 1: risks to be UM, the way the vaccine came to be,

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Speaker 1: and what that regulatory process looks like to ensure their safety.

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Speaker 1: I also think it's really important to work with community

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Speaker 1: members so that UM, if we can do the work

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Speaker 1: to reduce the hesitancy and people decide, yeah, I do

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Speaker 1: want to get my vaccine immediately, they're linked to the

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Speaker 1: space to get that vaccine and have access so that

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Speaker 1: UM they can get the vaccine quickly. Because there's nothing

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Speaker 1: worse than doing all the works to to help someone

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Speaker 1: to understand, to make them feel safe, to make them

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Speaker 1: feel like the process is rigorous and careful and protective,

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Speaker 1: and then not be able to give them vaccines or

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Speaker 1: to have them not be able to access vaccine. It's

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Speaker 1: a tough one. I think Carl Sagan said, you can't

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Speaker 1: convince a believer of anything if their beliefs are not

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Speaker 1: based in fact um, and I'm sure that could apply

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Speaker 1: to many people who are hesitant to get vaccines. On

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Speaker 1: the other hand, there have been vaccine disasters in history,

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Speaker 1: but this clearly looks safe. Has there been any issue,

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Speaker 1: any major issue arising from vaccine so far? Um, the

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Speaker 1: vaccines are looking unbelievably safe, and I think we're all

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Speaker 1: really excited, drilled, relieved to see that the data that

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Speaker 1: can continue to come in show safe and effective vaccines,

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Speaker 1: and the vaccines that wants effective were removed early in

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Speaker 1: the process, showing that our process does work. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think with the with everything that's happening with the

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Speaker 1: astros and theic A vaccine right now, um, it is

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Speaker 1: still a safe and effective vaccine. I think where we're

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Speaker 1: seeing the problems is in the communication around it, and

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Speaker 1: it just demonstrates the absolute need for clear and efficient

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Speaker 1: communication around um you know what the process looks like

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Speaker 1: and what the safety checks are, because it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: how safety a vaccine is. If you mess up the

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Speaker 1: communication around it or the public feels like they're being

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Speaker 1: misled about it, then then you've lost the public on

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Speaker 1: that vaccine. Yeah, exactly. So, Lauren, how about the variants

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Speaker 1: out there. I know they're providing you know, some challenges

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Speaker 1: for you know, the vaccine makers and healthcare workers. What

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Speaker 1: do we know about the ability of existing vaccines they're

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Speaker 1: driving it looks like they're driving the spike at least here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So what do you see in terms of those variants. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of work things done to

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Speaker 1: look at the variants and to better understand um. You know,

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Speaker 1: for example, when we see vaccine breakthrough, is it from

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Speaker 1: a certain variant? Is it from you know, a certain

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Speaker 1: impact of the variants on the case. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that will help us determine that is that

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Speaker 1: this continued push towards more sequencing efforts, more genomics work

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Speaker 1: around the virus. So when we get those cases of

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Speaker 1: vaccine breakthrough UM or we get these these new spikes

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Speaker 1: in in cases, are we looking to see what variant

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Speaker 1: we have visibility on, what variants if it's a variant

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Speaker 1: at all, UM is causing that, And that is a

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Speaker 1: that is a global effort right now. But I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of work to do there. You know,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the US, we have a lot of sequencing

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Speaker 1: work to catch up on he Lauren, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We always appreciate chatting with you

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Speaker 1: at this time every week as we learn more and

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Speaker 1: more about this virus, more and more about therapeutics, and thankfully,

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Speaker 1: more and more about vaccines. Lawrence our Associate Professor of

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Speaker 1: Emergency Medicine that JOHNS. Hopkins School of Medicine. We should

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Speaker 1: note that the Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported

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Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Philanthropies and this Bloomberg Radio and TV operations. I want

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Speaker 1: to go over to Hans Olsen. He's the chief investment

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Speaker 1: officer at Fiduccieri Trust and he's got about nineteen billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of assets under management in Boston. Hans, we see

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Speaker 1: some green on the screen today. It's I guess the

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Speaker 1: reopening play um on again. What do you think about

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Speaker 1: markets with more room to run? Here? Well, I definitely

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Speaker 1: think we have more room to run. The reopening play

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Speaker 1: UM I think is is you know, we're into it,

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Speaker 1: but I think there's more to go, especially when we

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Speaker 1: get um you know, the successive ways of stimulus that

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Speaker 1: will come in form in the form of infrastructure spending

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Speaker 1: and human capital um um spending that the administration's talking about.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's definitely more to come through the

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Speaker 1: next quarter or so, and then at some point we'll

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Speaker 1: start to have to reckon with how we pay for

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Speaker 1: all of this stimulus. Yeah, that's a good point there, Hans.

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Speaker 1: I mean just definitely been concerned in the marketplace over

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Speaker 1: the last several weeks about inflation creeping into this economy

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Speaker 1: and whether it's maybe, you know, if it's good inflation

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Speaker 1: or maybe not so good inflation. How are you thinking

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Speaker 1: about those inflation worries in the market. I've often thought

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Speaker 1: the the the inflation worries would be a natural companion

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Speaker 1: to the recovery story, right, It would be only a

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Speaker 1: matter of time between from when people focused about the

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Speaker 1: economic woes to potentially inflation problems down the line. And

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Speaker 1: so I think this is all rather um uh, sort

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Speaker 1: of normal in the in the pace of markets. I

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Speaker 1: do think though these I'm sympathetic to these inflation warriors,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I think that might be a bit premature.

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Speaker 1: After all, we're still about ten million people fewer lighter

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Speaker 1: in the LA market then we were roughly last time

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Speaker 1: this year, and there have been some changes in the

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Speaker 1: in the commercial markets, the labor markets that I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure we fully appreciate it yet. If you were working

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Speaker 1: at a you know, a kmart or a Lord and Taylor,

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Speaker 1: there's no job for you to go back to. And

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Speaker 1: and if you look at hospitality and the travel industry

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Speaker 1: that were built really on a very profitable business traveler, uh,

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Speaker 1: that is going to change. So I mean, those are

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Speaker 1: just a couple of instances the way that the pandemic

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Speaker 1: has probably changed our commercial lives that are yet to

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Speaker 1: be fully fully appreciated. So I think inflation, while it's

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Speaker 1: certainly problematic, is probably a concern for for another day

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Speaker 1: at this juncture. But I mean, as the FED tries

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Speaker 1: to push down the U six, which is at eleven

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Speaker 1: point one percent right now, surely, especially together with fiscal

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Speaker 1: they're going to bring on some inflation into in doing that.

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Speaker 1: Eventually it would be reasonable to expect inflation to to rise.

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Speaker 1: And you would see you're seeing this already happening, I guess, uh,

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Speaker 1: really more worries about how they fund it, all right,

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Speaker 1: And you're seeing a bit of a rebellion in the

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Speaker 1: bond market if you look at at the shape of

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Speaker 1: the curve over the last since the end of let's

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Speaker 1: say January um the ten twenty year um or, they're

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Speaker 1: up about half to three quarters of a percentage point.

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Speaker 1: So that's a that's a pretty big move. And you've

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Speaker 1: had a couple of bond auctions, the seven year auctions

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Speaker 1: of late, that have gone poorly. So I think there's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a rebellion going on in the UH

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Speaker 1: in the bond market. Makes one wonder whether the said

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Speaker 1: will be forced into some sort of full on your

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Speaker 1: curve control as a result. You know, I love I

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Speaker 1: love to look at Hans on the on the Bloomberg terminal.

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Speaker 1: Debt go is a very simple function that shows you

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Speaker 1: the owners of US treasuries. And of course the federal

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Speaker 1: reserve line has just skyrocketed, as Japan, China, UK they

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Speaker 1: all stay at similar, similar levels. How difficult do you

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Speaker 1: think it's going to be de fund especially when Biden

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Speaker 1: comes out with a three or four trillion dollar infrastructure package,

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Speaker 1: Well already you have. I think it's going to be tough,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to force problem without a reserve to

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Speaker 1: step in to be the buyer of last resort. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you look at UM selling over the last several

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Speaker 1: years of US treasuries by foreign investors, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: we're we're hitting some pretty big selling. They're voting with

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Speaker 1: their feet, uh, and it's obvious. It's obvious that they're

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Speaker 1: concerned about the fiscal direction of the country, whether its

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Speaker 1: sustainable or not. So who buys this and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: at what price they buy this debt is something that

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to work out in the months ahead,

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Speaker 1: and especially right especially as we think about another three

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Speaker 1: maybe four trillion hitting the markets, that that needs to

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Speaker 1: get financed, and then uh, part of that's going to

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Speaker 1: be financed through uh rising taxes. So that's gonna have

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Speaker 1: an implication for the after tax return on equities that

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Speaker 1: we'll have to start thinking about. Hans talk to us

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Speaker 1: about emerging markets here. We've heard really over the last

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Speaker 1: several months in particular, kind of a rising UH interest

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Speaker 1: in emerging markets as people, as investors globally search for

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Speaker 1: yield and returns. How are you guys thinking about that

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Speaker 1: at Fidishary. Yeah, I'm thinking about it more in the

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Speaker 1: context of both growth and currency. UM. You know, emerging

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Speaker 1: market they are going to be I think in fine

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Speaker 1: form in terms of the UH, the growth pots you

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Speaker 1: probably double two x that of the developed world. So

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Speaker 1: so there's a good story there. UM. Their fiscal position

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Speaker 1: tends to be a lot better than the developed world.

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Speaker 1: And I think even though that the dollar has been

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Speaker 1: strong lately, the reality is that we're running massive twin

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Speaker 1: deficits and that's never a good thing for for the dollar. UH.

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Speaker 1: And so I think if we look forward, you know,

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Speaker 1: a year, two years, let's see a lower currency, UM,

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Speaker 1: the dollar is gonna get sorely tested. And with that UH,

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Speaker 1: international markets should catch a nice bid, especially the emerging markets,

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Speaker 1: which are particularly sensitive to that. UM. So I think

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Speaker 1: emerging markets great play right now. Number one and number

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Speaker 1: two if if we look beyond right what the goings

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Speaker 1: on are in Europe with their problems with their vaccines,

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Speaker 1: which are which are significant. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: markets there right now, they're telling you that there's a

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Speaker 1: turn their markets. UH. The local currency return in those

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Speaker 1: markets this year's been really quite good right than the US. Indeed, Hans,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us and sharing your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: We always appreciate that. Hans Olsen, Chief investment officer for

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Speaker 1: Fiduciary Trust based in Boston, talking about kind of where

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Speaker 1: they are allocating some of the money, where the folks

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Speaker 1: that fiduciary are seeing some opportunities, talking a little bit

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Speaker 1: about the emerging markets again potentially an area of opportunity,

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Speaker 1: particularly against his weaker dollar outlook. Well. Over the past year,

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Speaker 1: the pandemic has opened up several new legal battles, from

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Speaker 1: death tied to COVID outbreaks on cruises, to concerns at

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Speaker 1: the workplace, and even f all tied to stimulus payments.

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Speaker 1: It all adds up to a mountain of new litigation.

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Speaker 1: Some of it's tied to laws that date back a

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Speaker 1: hundred years, while other complaints are garnering calls for new

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Speaker 1: legal measures. We get more on the matter from Greg

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Speaker 1: jar in this Bloomberg Radio special report. Many things have

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Speaker 1: changed in this time of pandemic, from where and how

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Speaker 1: we work to what we wear, how we marry, how

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Speaker 1: we recreate, and how and why we sue each other.

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Speaker 1: Pandemic related lawsuits are expanding and new law is being

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Speaker 1: created from workers comp claim suits against healthcare companies, hotels, airlines,

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Speaker 1: and possibly the most recognized cruise lines who can forget

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Speaker 1: the images of ships unable to dock or docked and

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Speaker 1: unable to disembark, like the Grand prind Sets owned by

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Speaker 1: Carnival Corporation, which was stuck in San Francisco Bay. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Nishimura of Cochet, Petrie and McCarthy, famed Towards firms, says

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Speaker 1: they're hampered in their lawsuits by a law fast in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, the Death on the High Seas Act, also

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Speaker 1: known DOSA. D o h s A was designed to

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Speaker 1: simply compensate only money for the amount the person had earned,

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Speaker 1: maybe funeral and burial expenses and very little more. And

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Speaker 1: DOSA has not grown up to meet the needs of

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Speaker 1: the world now, and it was not designed for the

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Speaker 1: cruise line world. It really was not. Miss Moore says

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Speaker 1: that law has he empowered the cruise lines. The cruise

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Speaker 1: ships fell impervious to liability, and I think that's a

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Speaker 1: motivating factor for why they continued to sail, even though

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Speaker 1: they knew that Carnival in particular had one of its

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Speaker 1: cruise ships already under quarantine in Japan from February. Our

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Speaker 1: clients at sail afterwards MOA thanks one of their wrongful

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Speaker 1: death suits has a chance because of where the client

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Speaker 1: fell ill. Our position is that he contracted the coronavirus

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Speaker 1: while stuck in the San Francisco Bay and as a consequence,

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Speaker 1: he was not outside the three mile limit of the

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Speaker 1: United States Shores for the defendants to invoke the depth

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Speaker 1: on the High States Act. Then there's fraud surrounding unemployment benefits.

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Speaker 1: Billions of dollars in unemployment benefits have been ripped off

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Speaker 1: in many states, and in many cases by inmates in

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Speaker 1: various prisons, some of whom fraudulently applied for benefits, and

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Speaker 1: others who intercepted debit cards used to distribute those benefits.

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Speaker 1: Attorney Brian Dennits is suing Bank of America. At Bank

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Speaker 1: of America, which has the exclusive contract to distribute unemployment

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Speaker 1: funds to unemployment recipients in California, they should have known

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Speaker 1: that fraud was going to pick up, and they saw

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Speaker 1: it happening, and they did not put in the measures

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Speaker 1: that needed to be put in to protect the unemployed

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Speaker 1: and recipients than it says. The claimants keep calling hundreds

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Speaker 1: and hundreds of people who are desperate they've lost their

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Speaker 1: only lifeline. I've heard from a father of three who

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Speaker 1: is now sleeping in his car with his family. I've

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Speaker 1: heard from someone who gets prescription medicine that he can

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Speaker 1: no longer afford. These stories are coming in every day

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Speaker 1: and it is very sad, and there's no relief in sight.

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Speaker 1: That's why we filed our complaint. Another area of law

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Speaker 1: that's expanding due to the pandemic. It's no wonder that

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Speaker 1: business owners are concerned about bringing their workers back to

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Speaker 1: work because they are concerned that they will not be

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Speaker 1: covered if the worst happens, if somebody contracts the virus

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Speaker 1: at work. And and sus agrees, I think some employers

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Speaker 1: are very concerned. That is why they're not requiring all

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Speaker 1: their employees to come back there asking them too. As

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Speaker 1: for those cruisers, Cardinal CEO Arnold Donald says, despite the

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Speaker 1: ascension of litigation, he's not concerned. Business looks good. There

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Speaker 1: will be plenty of pentop demand, as evidence by the

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Speaker 1: booking's already um as you look at late and a

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Speaker 1: secon first half second half twenty two where the book

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Speaker 1: he's are stronger uh than they were even prior to COVID.

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Speaker 1: On the same basis, which begs the question why would

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Speaker 1: cruisers want to get back on the boat after what

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Speaker 1: happened in people love the experience. What remains to be

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Speaker 1: seen is how all this will shake out post pandemic,

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Speaker 1: which has yet to arrive in San Francisco. I'm Greg

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Speaker 1: Janet Bloomberg Greggy fantastic recording there by Greg Jarry with

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Speaker 1: some good tunes as well. Greg Jarret joins us. Now.

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Speaker 1: Greg's just a great piece. I can't imagine the amount

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Speaker 1: of litigation that's going to flow from this pandemic and

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Speaker 1: the economic disruption it will be, keeping lawyers busy for years.

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on the cruising business because that

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Speaker 1: just fascinates me. I mean, I've never been on a cruise,

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Speaker 1: but if I were to board a cruise ship, I

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Speaker 1: I recognize I'm basically boarding a floating Petrie Dish. Don't

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Speaker 1: I assume some risk there? I guess, well, it's not

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Speaker 1: so much that follows what she was talking about the

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Speaker 1: Death on the High Seas Act enacted in nineteen twenty.

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Speaker 1: If you're beyond the three mile limit of the US

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Speaker 1: or any other country that has laws against laws that

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Speaker 1: would enforce, you know, wrongful death suits, it doesn't count.

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Speaker 1: Because there's this death on the High Seas Act, and

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Speaker 1: there's other laws, and the ship is its own little

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Speaker 1: country floating out there, so you don't think you don't

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of rights. Maritime law absolutely fascinating.

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Speaker 1: How does how do insurance industries deal with this? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting because the insurance companies are pretty much

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Speaker 1: fighting at tooth and nail every step of the way,

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Speaker 1: and the law is pretty much on their side. If

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Speaker 1: you look at it, you google it, if you do

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Speaker 1: a search, you see that most of the lawsuits have

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Speaker 1: already been dismissed. It's only the ones that were within

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Speaker 1: that three mile limit that are being held up. In

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Speaker 1: any case, it's being pursued and new law is being made,

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Speaker 1: just like with the Internet. You guys remember when we

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Speaker 1: started internet. Uh, they always had laws against murder, they

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Speaker 1: had laws against theft, but they had to refashion the

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Speaker 1: laws in order to be able to fit the internet

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Speaker 1: usage of the crimes. Now they're having to refashion law

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Speaker 1: to fit a pandemic and also what's going on in

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Speaker 1: the high season. By the way, as far as employers

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Speaker 1: are concerning businesses, there were already many exclusions in there

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Speaker 1: that specifically read not in the case of a pandemic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's interesting, it's you know, just as

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Speaker 1: part of the stimulus packages. You know, when I see

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Speaker 1: you know, the numbers being banded about, it just screams

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Speaker 1: organized crime. I'm sure when they see those dollars, they

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Speaker 1: just say, boy, there's a gold a gold mine right out.

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Speaker 1: If you have the ability to intercept electronically on the internet.

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Speaker 1: And this brings two sets of laws together. If you're

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Speaker 1: able to intercept that, why not spend the money? And

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Speaker 1: that's what a lot of people in prison apparently are saying,

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Speaker 1: according to the attorneys that I interviewed, that the it's

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Speaker 1: just just rampant with billions of dollars. And that's another question.

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Speaker 1: How are the states going to recoup that? How are

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Speaker 1: they going to come back from that? On top of

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Speaker 1: the of the uh of of all the stimulus that

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Speaker 1: has already been paid out. Where will that money come from?

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Speaker 1: It will be interesting to see if a solution is

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Speaker 1: found for people who do want to go on a

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Speaker 1: cruise of Paul does want to pull the trigger on

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Speaker 1: that carnival, uh, you know Caribbean stream but uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: are worried about this. Maybe you can buy some additional

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Speaker 1: insurance that will cover you even um when you are

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Speaker 1: at high see Greg Jared, thanks very much for that reporting.

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Speaker 1: Great package. Well, some news out this morning about Fox

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Speaker 1: Corporation and voting machine company Dominion is suing Fox News

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Speaker 1: over election claims. The suit is amounts to one point

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Speaker 1: six billion dollars. Let's get the latest on this. We

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Speaker 1: turned to Larrik Eric Larson, us legal reporter for a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Eric, thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about this suit? Well, it is

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Speaker 1: a one point six billion dollar lawsuit against Fox accusing

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Speaker 1: the company of a really huge defamation campaign over its

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Speaker 1: coverage of the aftermath of the November election. Uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Fox is accused of falsely accusing Dominion of of

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Speaker 1: rigging the election by flipping millions of votes away from

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, falsely claiming that the company had ties to

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Speaker 1: Venezuela and the Hugo Chave, and accusing it of paying

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Speaker 1: kickbacks to government officials to use its machine. So it's

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Speaker 1: pretty wide ranging claims here. How difficult will this be

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Speaker 1: to prove? How difficult our defamation suits um to prove

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Speaker 1: in court? They can be pretty tough UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a First Amendment defense and

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Speaker 1: and when a case like this they might have to

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Speaker 1: prove that box intentionally, like knowingly maybe these false claims UM,

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Speaker 1: rather than unintentionally, and that they did so with actual malice.

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Speaker 1: They just sort of disregarded the truths UM. And it

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Speaker 1: can be a difficult UM thing to prove. But Dominion

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Speaker 1: says that they have just tons of evidence here with

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Speaker 1: all the exhibits and the complaint. It comes out over

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Speaker 1: four hundred pages, lots of screenshots and transcripts of UH

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Speaker 1: guests and and on air talent UM on Fox News

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Speaker 1: UH saying UM claim making claims about dominion that we're

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Speaker 1: just frankly not true. UM. And it wasn't just that

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Speaker 1: they were saying, hey, we made a mistake here. They

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Speaker 1: had the Dominion says that they pointed out these errors

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Speaker 1: over and over again, UM, and that Fox chose to

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Speaker 1: sort of ignore that to point it is to the

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Speaker 1: suit and just can continue to um spread these these

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Speaker 1: lies about the election, UH in order to keep viewers. UM.

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Speaker 1: It really was about an economic interest, according to Dominion,

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Speaker 1: they say that that Fox was really concerned about its

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Speaker 1: share value. It's loss of viewership after Trump. Viewers turned

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Speaker 1: two more conservative outlets after the election, and they said

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Speaker 1: that this is a specific campaign by Fox to spread

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Speaker 1: these lines to keep viewers and to save its stock price.

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Speaker 1: All right, So, Eric, I mean Dominion has been very

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Speaker 1: aggressive with its legal strategy here. They've sued Rudy Giuliani,

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Speaker 1: they sued former Trump campaign attorney Sydney pou the my

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Speaker 1: Pillow CEO Mike Lindell. What really is their strategy here?

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Speaker 1: Are they really looking, um, to drive these suits all

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Speaker 1: the way to the end, or they maybe just trying

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Speaker 1: to make a point? Um. I have spoken with Dominion

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Speaker 1: CEO and its words, Um, they are absolutely ready to

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Speaker 1: go to trial. That's what they say they want here.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they say that the trial when all of

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Speaker 1: this supposed evidence about the Dominion's activities is supposed to

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Speaker 1: come forward, you know, that's when they say it'll be

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Speaker 1: obvious that it was all a lie. So they are

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Speaker 1: they're not joking around, you know. They say they want

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Speaker 1: they want to take these as far as they can.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to go to trial. They want the world

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Speaker 1: to see that it's evidence of vote manipulation does doesn't exist,

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Speaker 1: and that they never had any of this evidence they

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Speaker 1: claim to have. So you know, it's uh, the ones

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned earlier, the suit against Juliani and Sidney

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Speaker 1: Powell and Mike Mondel. Um, this really sort of like

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Speaker 1: caps it off. It's not stay the last one. They've

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Speaker 1: even hinted that they might sue uh over President Trump

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Speaker 1: as well. But this is certainly where they've been signaling

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Speaker 1: they're gonna go. Um, and and certainly other students are

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Speaker 1: probably going to be filed as well. And it's not

431
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: just dominion, right. Smart Maddock is also another voting machine

432
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: company is also suing Fox and some of its anchors.

433
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting the anchors are named specific

434
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: stically in the suit. Yeah, the Smartmatock UH suit that

435
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: was filed earlier, for example, named Lou Dabbed. Shortly after

436
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: that it was filed, you know, his show was canceled.

437
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 1: Um that Fox did not say it was for that reason,

438
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: but a lot of people drew that conclusion. Um. But

439
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: I should point out that Fox has moved to dismiss

440
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: that suit already. UM. And today they said in an

441
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: emailed statement to me that they plan on fighting this

442
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: new suit by dominion as well. And so that it's

443
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: without merit. Alright, So Eric, I mean, is without merrit

444
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of boilerplate response is there? What? What is kind

445
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: of the defense for uh Fox is simply First Amendment. Well,

446
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: they're going to I'm sure that they will probably argue

447
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: that they were just doing their jobs as journalists, UM,

448
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: having people come on to discuss in the you know,

449
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: the most important news of the day, the election. UM.

450
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: Certainly there were allegations of voter fraud that we're going around,

451
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: and they will argue that they were just reporting on

452
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: those facts and allowing people to come on and give

453
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: their opinions. So, UH Dominion says that that can only

454
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 1: get you so far, though. UM. In their complaint they

455
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: do spell out they anticipate this defense and point out that,

456
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, they had made so many attempts to reach

457
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: out and tell Fox that what they were doing was

458
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: just spreading lies upon lies, UM, and that they refused

459
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: to retract what they were saying, and they continued to

460
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: have folks come on who were spreading what they said

461
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: were demonstrably false, you know, you demonstrably false claims. It

462
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: wasn't just an opinion. Dominion says, these were just false claims.

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Speaker 1: All right, Eric, thanks very much for joining us. Eric

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Speaker 1: Larson is a Bloomberg legal reporter talking to us about

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Speaker 1: the lawsuits being brought against Fox and others over the

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Speaker 1: election coverage. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to. Interview is an Apple

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00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller,

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00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller. Yet I'm fall Sweeney.

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00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio