WEBVTT - Everything to Know About the 2X Nvidia ETF 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:07.200 Wellco Natrolius. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.800 I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric belchernas Eric. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.640 There is a company that I have been really fascinated 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.000 in because of the suite of products they have. This 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.480 is Granite Shares, and the thing that I've been looking 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.600 at this year is like Nvidia mostly just goes up, up, 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.960 up up, and Granite Shares as this ETF that is 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.280 a two x in Vidia, which basically is like, not 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.159 only is it a rocket ship, it's like a bigger 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.519 rocket ship. And I'm really curious about who's behind all this. 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:43.440 Yeah. I refer to this broader category as hot sauce 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.159 because a lot of portfolios in the middle of the 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.160 portfolio it's pretty dull. You buy and hold some low 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.319 cost beta vanilla index funds and you have to wait 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.960 thirty five years. So people like to have a little 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.760 fun on the outside speculate, and so single stock ETFs 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.880 are one of many varieties of hot sauce, and they're 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.280 taking off. The assets in these have doubled this year. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.280 We're only halfway through and they've already doubled. Probably the 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.120 big hit is NVDL, which is the Granite SHARE's two 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.920 x long Navidia, which now has Joel four billion dollars 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:17.880 in assets. That is big time money right there. And 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.039 there's a you know, a lot of this is them 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.680 trial and error that they launch different stocks and some 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.840 take off, some don't. So not all these are a hit, 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.319 but there's been a couple of breakouts that I think 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.399 have shown people, hey, this is a category that is 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.760 here to stay, and it's an interesting one. I think 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:36.679 for people on the outsets somethings they scratch their heads 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:41.399 like who needs that? But the people have spoken. There's 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:42.560 definitely an audience for this. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.720 Joining us on this episode, Will Rhynd, CEO and founder 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:51.560 of Granite Shares also worth mentioning. This episode was recorded 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.880 on June twenty fourth, as Nvidia had kind of a 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:04.120 down day, this time on trillions x single stock etf Well, 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.600 welcome with jillions, Thank you. How is going to start gambling? 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.800 Well, I think that, you know, with anything that's leveraged, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.919 there's an element clearly of speculation depending on who's using it. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:22.160 But underneath the leverage you're talking about real companies, and 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.560 in the case of Nvidia, you know, this has become 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.160 the most important stock in the market. You know, overtook 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.800 Apple and Microsoft very recently to become the world's most 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:35.760 valuable company. So, on the one hand, leverage is probably 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.120 the oldest concept that we have in finance, you know, 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:42.680 borrowing money to obtain more notional exposure. But this is 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.800 done in a very sort of modern way by putting 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:51.080 it in the ETF rapper, giving people institutionally priced you know, leverage. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.520 But with the access, the ease of access, the efficiency 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:55.800 of the ETF rapper. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.120 How do you think Jack Bogel would feel about what 0:02:58.160 --> 0:02:58.600 you offer. 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.880 I'm not sure he would be the biggest fan. But 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.440 it's funny because well, I know if you're about to 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.720 say this, Eric, but one of his big things from 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.239 day one was he was bearish or he did not 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:21.400 like ETF's period because of people's ability to trade them. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.760 And it's precisely that that this group of customers are 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:29.240 our group of customers. It's precisely that element that they love. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:35.280 So it's you know, very perhaps contradictory or different to 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.040 the buy and hold crowd. It's not something that they 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.840 subscribe to. But there's a massive now amount of people 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.320 and increasingly so that want to be self directed, who 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.160 are self directed and you know, want to trade. 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.680 Is there anything that Will make that is not rated 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.480 R or red light. 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.760 Sure they have like a gold ETF for example, that 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.160 would be greenlight, okay to be honest. So I think 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.040 some of the more recent ETFs that Will has put 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.600 out have been these sort of more red light ETFs. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.440 But back to Bogel, I mean he had problems with 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.520 like seventy percent of woo Vanguard offered. I mean, he 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.480 was pretty brutal to everybody. But I think one of 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.600 the things I try to explain to people about these 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:23.800 is when I show my pie chart of like a 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.960 modern portfolio eighty five percent cheap beta boring weight thirty 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.920 five years and then like ten to fifteen percent hot sauce, 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.120 is that the hot sauce can actually have a behavioral 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.200 purpose to it if it keeps you from touching the 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.240 eighty five percent, Right, So, because compounding returns or where 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.960 it's at, that is the magic that we're all here for, 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.440 but you can't touch it. So to give your idle 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.039 hands something to do and speculate, sometimes you win, sometimes 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.159 you lose. If that distracts you, that's a behavioral hack 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.839 to me in a way. So I do think you 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.840 could argue there's actually a bogulian purpose. He would say, well, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.680 why do you need to do that? But people are human, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.720 they like to speculate thematic ETFs I put in this category. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.880 Arc is a great example, So I'm fine with it. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.160 And I think you know, you can gamble on sports, 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.000 you can gamble. Stock investing is kind of gambling, So 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.440 I'm fine with it. I think it's you know, these 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.200 things have a small percentage of the assets too. If 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:24.560 they took over, it'd. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:24.920 Be kind of weird. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.800 But you have like your own little niche and you 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.320 are in what is very valuable these days, which is 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.039 a VFZ, a Vanguard free zone, so he never has 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.880 to worry about Vanguard coming in like ruining life in 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.960 that category. So that's got to be nice, right. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.799 Well, I mean it's something, as you know, an independent 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.440 issuer that clearly you need to be able to provide 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:49.039 products that frankly the larger companies like Bangard don't because 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.359 when you're an independent it's the sort of boutique argument 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.320 versus the big box store. So if you're trying to 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.560 be a big box store but on a boutique budget, 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.240 it's not going to work. So you have to be 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.719 offering something different and you know, ideally something that you 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:08.000 just can't get from those big players. And that's where 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.440 companies like us come into play, that we offer things 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.479 that are unique and with something like leverage single stocks. 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.200 I mean, this is a new category that we pioneered, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.839 and you know, leverage on single companies, in my opinion, 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.440 is more intuitive than some of the other applications. But 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.599 leveraged dtfs have been around for a long time. You know, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.560 you've been able to trade leveraged ETFs on broad equity benchmarks, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:37.240 fixed income benchmarks, commodity benchmarks, even individual commodities. So this 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.200 is really just an extension of that trend. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.120 You've like thirteen now of these single stock leverage gtfs. 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:45.240 Where did it all start? What was the one that 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.039 you were like, oh my god, we have to do this. 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.640 So we got to rewind a little bit because we 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.599 actually started this in Europe in twenty nineteen. And the 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.839 reason we did that was that when I started Grantwitch 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.440 Shas seven years ago in the US, there were only 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.800 two companies that could do leverage dtfs period in the 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.680 United States. So we couldn't do leverage dtfs even if 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.480 we wanted to at that time. That was a weird 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.960 sort of government exemption that existed at that time. It 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:16.800 no longer does. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.200 So there was an a sec thing, correct. 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.840 That was when the old sort of era was under 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.600 exemptive relief. That was a thing called exemptive relief and 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.920 exemption that was given to two companies and then not 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:30.040 given to anybody else. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:31.600 Pro shows and direction. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.360 Yeah, there you go. And then fast forward a few years. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.880 We thought the idea was really good, but we couldn't 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.280 do it in the US, so we started in Europe. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.840 And we have a platform in Europe where we offer 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:49.000 over one hundred products on different exchanges in every major country, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.360 so we started doing it there. In that time, the 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.640 regulation here changed and this exemptive relief or this exemptive 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.240 regime went away and was replaced by a generic rule 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.160 update that everybody nicknames the ETF rule. And what that 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:11.720 effectively allowed is any company to do leverage dtfs. Obviously, 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:16.600 with some caveats, two x is the maximum amount of 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.119 leverage that you can do. But that opened the door 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.640 for US to then bring leverage single stocks, which had 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:23.560 been doing in Europe. 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.240 Here in the US and in Europe, Joel, they've got 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.520 three x Navidia, they really party over. 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.240 There, which we'll come back to. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.960 But Eighthan on my team sometimes we joke about that 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.320 because they've got like five x the Queues two three 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.440 x Navidia, five x AI and we feel like it's 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.600 kind of wasted on that crowd, Like it's the American 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.560 gambling degenerate mindset that would really have fun with those products. 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.160 Maybe that's why the SEC limits it to two x, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.280 because they know that these would probably fly off the shelves. 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.920 But still, you know, when you just design these products, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.400 you put them out there, it looks to me like 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.600 the ones that sell are the ones connected to stocks 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.160 that are like see the most trading Navidia, Tesla. We 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.600 ran a study. It looked like they're like maybe eighty 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.040 percent of the market share of all single stock ETFs, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.520 even though they probably cover for fifty stocks. But those 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.200 two companies are like the majority of them. Is that 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.280 just because people just love trading those two names, and 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.199 if you can make putting on a different trade around 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.400 them easier to me sort of like a parlay, I'm 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.599 going to trade that, whereas Microsoft, Eh, I'm not that 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.559 interested in that stock. It's not that volatile it's not 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.600 that hot. Is Is that why those sell? 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.040 In a way I think I would I would add 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.000 them one more thing to that, which is less quantitative, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.240 more qualitative, I'd say, it's about the enthusiasm for the 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.400 stock at the given time. An enthusiasm is a concept 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.200 that you know, you can't really sort of measure as such. 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.560 But my example is NVIDIAs the stock today that has 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:03.320 all the enthusiasm, and Tesla, which you mentioned, is the 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.280 second most popular. However, if we are talking about, oh, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.720 we're having this conversation three years ago, I would argue 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.319 that we'd be talking about Tesla being the most popular 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.520 because there was the most enthusiasm at that time for 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.160 that stock. In Europe, we've seen where we have a 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.320 lot more of these products, you know, We've seen huge 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.880 amount of enthusiasm for companies like Neo for example, which 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.520 is another EV car manufacturer from China. Less so these days, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.800 of course, as that has moved on into AI and 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:31.320 so I think. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.040 It's matured slightly and there's more competition for Neo etc. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.840 Exactly. I think it reflects, you know, the two biggest 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.520 trends in my mind of this year have been AI 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:45.320 and cryptocurrency, So naturally in our product offering, the two 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.040 biggest products and the most of activity enthusiasm we've seen 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.480 are for Nvidia and we have coinbase two x Coinbase, 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.120 So that's kind of where we've seen that enthusiasm. And 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.439 to Eric's point, you know that it hasn't been necessarily 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:04.640 for companies like Microsoft because arguably that was you know, 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.520 maybe sort of twelve to eighteen months ago when that 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.880 stock's kind of made a big move. But you know, again, 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.760 I think it's it's really down to what investors care 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:15.839 about at that time. 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.240 I don't think we were rewound the clock all the 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:20.960 way there. What was the what was the one that 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:21.960 made you go we got to do this. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.800 I don't know if it was one per se. I 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.160 think it was more the learnings from what we'd been 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.920 doing in Europe, where we have more of a platform 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.720 based approach, and I think kind of what we're all 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.720 dancing around as this concept of okay, tech works. That's 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.960 something that people like. There's a lot of enthusiasm for 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.640 certain tech companies, and so when we launched here, we 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.320 launched with a lot of the large tech names, but 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.280 we did try and do some things that were different. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.280 So at the time, the reason why we did a 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.839 two x coinbase was because there was no crypto. I mean, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.520 I should be a specific no spot Bitcoin tea, which 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.120 was a huge, huge thing that you know Eric's covered 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:10.439 for he knows all too well exactly. But you know, 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.240 that was kind of a way to bring exposure to 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.640 to bitcoin slash cryptocurrency, but also with leverage because there 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.480 was no way to obtain leverage on that. So Ali 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.520 Baba is another one that we have where again it 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.360 wasn't necessarily that there was the most enthusiasm for Ali 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.520 Baba as a stock, but it was a way to 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.120 give people exposure to Chinese tech, you know, a very 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.640 concentrated way that didn't exist. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.679 And so let's go over how this happens because you 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.760 use swap contracts, right, yes, And let me just for 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.000 anybody listening, do you remember the scene in The Big 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.959 Short when Michael Burry wants to bet against the housing market. Yes, 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:47.480 he can't. 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:48.400 He can't figure it out. 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.600 So you go to Goldman and they make you it's 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.760 like a bar bet, but more formal. This is all 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.440 you're doing, right, You're basically being Michael Burry. You're going 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.480 to these big banks and you're making these daily bar bets, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.160 and that's the leg work you're doing that somebody at 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.280 home can hit by and all of a sudden they 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.240 now have this swap contract bet. Is that about right? 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:09.880 Yeah? 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.520 I mean that's the instrument itself, But it's actually a 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.640 kind of a much simpler concept, which is it's just financing. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.680 So it's using the balance sheet of a big bank 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.400 to effectively lend the fund money to take an increased 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.560 exposure on a particular stock. And in order to do that, 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.199 you need to have a bank that has a balance 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.520 sheet and is in a position to be able to 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:32.560 make that financing or lend that money. 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.240 So to me, this is in a weird way. You know, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.080 we talk about ETFs democratizing investing, in a way that's 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.320 democratizing that Michael Burry move. Most people do not get 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:48.360 access to JP Morgan's like swap desk. So exactly this 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.920 is all part of the same theme, which is you 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.360 click a button and things happen, and in this case 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:55.800 it's this swap contract. 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:56.320 Yeah. 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.240 And I think it's even perhaps even more fundamental than that, 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:07.120 which is it's democratizing access to margin and institutional price leverage. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.240 So the same price of leverage that we are getting 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.560 via and delivering via the ETF is not the same 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.240 price that you're getting at your you know, in your 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.880 margin account at a Fidelity or Schwab, et cetera. And 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:22.920 so again it's a classic case of the ETF disrupting 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.320 and existing mechanism that's been used by the banks and 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.920 broco dealers you know, for many, many years, but making 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.680 the whole process a lot more efficient, a lot more cheaper. 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.280 Because you have a platform, I'm curious that allows you 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:47.160 to basically see who's using these perhaps more than other people. 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.560 Is this I mean like it clearly has an audience 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:56.760 for traders, professional ones, institutional ones, but obviously there's because 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:00.480 of the popularity and enthusiasm for these company like the 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.880 retail crowd and the editors of the world would feast 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:05.920 on this. Can you tell who's using it? 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.480 To certain extent? So I think, like any ETF manager, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.520 we're disintermediated always by two entities, which is the stock 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:22.080 exchange one hand, and the brokerage that ultimately has the 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.880 transaction or handles the transaction for the customer. There's something 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.720 called the thirteen F report, which is a regulatory report 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.040 that we can look at that gives some analysis or 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.400 some look through into the shareholder base. It's not perfect, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.920 and it's a once a quarter snapshot, but what I 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.400 can tell you is that I think, like any successful etf, 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.040 it's always a spectrum. So you have retail investors clearly 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.280 on one hand or the barbell, and then you have 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.480 some of the world's most sophisticated hedge funds and proprietary 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.240 trading firms on the other hand, and probably everybody in between. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.360 So the other interesting aspect to this is that when 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.440 you have a company like in VideA, in Vidia has 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:08.520 not just appeal with Reddit retail investors, right, this is 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.280 a company and this is why I say so repe 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.600 this has become the world's most important company. This has 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:18.920 true global appeal. So if you're in Japan, or if 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.800 you're in career, or if you're in South America somewhere 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.640 and you want exposure to that company, you can only 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.800 get that in the US stock market. And therefore you 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.400 can only get the leveraged version of Nvidia through our 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.560 product NVDL here in the US. So providing a broker 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.200 has access, then you access to the market and increasingly. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:44.080 We're also seeing this trend as well, whereby markets around 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.600 the world are becoming more connected. Individuals are becoming more 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:52.240 interconnected through technology. The first market they look to outside 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.800 of their home market, and typically the home market may 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.680 or may not be that developed, is the US market. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.280 And the reason why the US market is because the 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.760 US market has performed very well. Why because of some 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.080 of these stocks like Nvideo. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.240 I know they're hot stocks. Navidia is now trading four 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.520 times any other stock speaking of trading, listen to this statroll. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:19.200 So even an NVDL is probably at four billion, maybe 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.879 right around the top in the top two hundred and 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.680 fifty ets by assets. It's in the top ten regularly 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.440 in trading. So today it's already traded one point five 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.800 billion as of whatever time it is two thirty pm today. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:39.880 That's more than ready General Motors, Berkshire, Dell Computer. Right, 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.399 these are massive names. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.120 How does it compair with Spy, which would be day 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:46.160 and day out number one. 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.160 Yeah, So as of right now, Spy has traded thirteen 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:53.240 billion and his is one point five billion. Now that 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.160 is a pretty big gap, but everything's a big gap 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.840 from Spy in the queues. But one point five billion 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:03.160 puts you ninth. That's above HyG, above XLF. These are 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.000 some big legendary names that. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.760 But also Eric on Spy. Remember that NVDL is, like 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.800 I said, it's four billion dollars. Spy is over half 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.000 a trillion. Yeah, yeah, right, I mean the difference in size, yeah, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:18.040 is monumental. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.480 Just getting yourself like you know, Ibit is in the 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.640 top twenty two and that's obviously very impressive. It's hard 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.199 to get on this leaderboard. You know, ARC did it 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.639 for a couple couple of years there. So anytime an 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.800 outsider can come in on the volume list and be 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.880 like right there with those legendary spider sectors and it's 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.800 it's a major feat. And when you have volume, then 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.760 you get bigger fish volumes like chumming the water for 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:43.520 big fish. 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.800 So it's a very interesting business model. And it's like 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.720 feels like you found a corner of the ETF universe 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.040 that was more or less kind of open, open enough 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.560 that you could come in and make a name for yourself. 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.359 I'm curious, though, what are the limitations? Can you go 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.520 to black Rock and say I'm going to take ibit 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:02.880 and to exit. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.320 Well, this is actually a really good question. So in theory, yes, 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.800 you can. Again, remember the concept of leverage is the 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.000 most basic concept in finance. It's just borrowing money to 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.719 get an increased exposure to a given security. So in 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:24.240 theory you can leverage anything. What we have to be 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.320 careful of or mindful of is that with an etfor 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.760 it's open ended and therefore there has to be a 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:35.960 scale aspect to it, and part of that means that counterparties, 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.680 spot counterparties, investment banks have to be able to continuously 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.520 finance and provide more exposure to it. So a better 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.680 example might be something like a game star or or 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:51.120 an AMC, where as you may or may not imagine, 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.119 we get a lot of requests for these on a daily, 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.680 if not intra day basis. Now the problem is in. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.680 Theory from roaring kidding or other people. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.640 That's from all sorts of people. That's from all sorts 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:09.560 of people. On the one hand, yes, it's it's easy 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:14.359 to provide some leverage against that. The harder aspect is 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.760 how much and for how long? And so that kind 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.600 of is really at the core of, you know, how 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.119 we think about building these products for the longer term 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.440 and not just you know, flash in the pan whereby 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.960 you know, we might be able to provide twenty million 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.720 dollars a capacity, but if somebody wants a hundred then 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:35.040 we have no way to deliver on that. 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.000 But that would be one that you know, back to 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.800 your enthusiasm, like there's enthusiasm. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.439 For it, correct, and so providing that we could provide 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:46.640 or get leverage against that, then yes, you could provide it. 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.479 Just a question of how much we'd be able to 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.919 get would really be the key question. 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.720 Joel, Ready for some trivia. There's thirteen I found like you're. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.440 Going to give it to me no matter what. But yes, okay, 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.359 now I'm ready. 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.720 I'm sorry. There's eleven thousand, seven hundred ETFs in the world. Okay, 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.280 the world, the world? 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.640 What is it? Does that include exchange traded products? 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.920 Yes? Okay, yes? What is the top performer year to date? 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:15.440 I'll give you a hint. It came up. 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.639 Already in video two x three x three x three x. 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:20.040 Guess how much it's up here to date? 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:26.520 Well, like five hundred percent, double double one thousand, You're 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:27.480 up one thousand percent. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.400 It's not even June thirtieth. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Now, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:34.000 guess what the worst performing ETF is year to date. 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.160 Uh Tesla short? 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.680 Actually no, no video the video, so. 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:42.919 There is a negative, yes, which that was gonna mean. 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:46.080 My next question is when you bring one of these 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.640 into the world, do you have to think about let's 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.320 call that the yen. Do you have to think about 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.280 the yang simultaneously, because for every bowl there's going to 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.280 be somebody who's like, I'll take the other side of that. 0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:00.760 Bet we do. Now, it doesn't exactly the US we 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.680 do for some now. Part of the reason is, first 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.080