Speaker 1: My name is Matt Soon. I was a camera operator.
Speaker 1: I was a director of photography, and I was a
Speaker 1: director of the TV show at the Office. Hello one
Speaker 1: and all, thank you for joining me on another episode
Speaker 1: of the Office Deep Dive. It is so great to
Speaker 1: have you here. I am your host, Brian baum Gartner.
Speaker 1: Now today we are diving deeper into our camera as
Speaker 1: character mini series with a conversation with my dear, dear friend,
Speaker 1: Matt Son. Matt was hired by Randall Einhorn as his
Speaker 1: camera operator starting in season one, and then Matt went
Speaker 1: on to replace Randall as our director of photography, and
Speaker 1: then eventually, just like Randall, became a big time director.
Speaker 1: In fact, he's so big. I had to travel to
Speaker 1: New York to conduct this interview, which I would not
Speaker 1: do for just anyone. Let's be clear, And speaking of
Speaker 1: New York. In my conversation with John Krasinski, who I
Speaker 1: also spoke to in New York, I explained that Matt
Speaker 1: and I had a very special relationship on set. As
Speaker 1: I told John, I thought of it like a quarterback
Speaker 1: and a wide receiver, where Matt would give me a
Speaker 1: nod and I'd know he was going to toss the
Speaker 1: camera to me for a button or a look of
Speaker 1: some kind. And when I told John this, as you
Speaker 1: may recall, John ripped me apart for saying that. But
Speaker 1: let's just say in this interview, I get fully vindicated.
Speaker 1: So take that, Mr Krasinski. Um. In addition to being
Speaker 1: the quarterback to my wide receiver, Matt is an all
Speaker 1: around fantastic guy, and he shared so many wonderful insights
Speaker 1: about what made our show truly special. So sit back
Speaker 1: and enjoy my conversation with the very wise, always correct,
Speaker 1: never wrong John Matt Song, Bubble and Squeak. I love it,
Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker. Cook at every
Speaker 1: month left over from the night before. Oh there is.
Speaker 1: I was just reading your text messages. You you look
Speaker 1: way way less haggard than Ram this full beautiful thing
Speaker 1: like he's got. I think he's trying to emulate Larry
Speaker 1: Charles right with the beard. No, you look very I mean, look,
Speaker 1: you've got a directing. Actually, I remember that about you.
Speaker 1: That was well, that was my differences. Yeah, when on
Speaker 1: set you used to change wardrobe. Well for my directing.
Speaker 1: When you directed, you would dress up. That was your
Speaker 1: signature thing. Well, no, it was so people would look
Speaker 1: at me a little differently than the jeans and the
Speaker 1: because I would get judged. Man, No, I mean you
Speaker 1: never were Paul Feig though, of course not. Um are
Speaker 1: you comfortable? Are you you need to? I noticed it
Speaker 1: just jumping right into this are we because it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like what do you mean? I wanted just to
Speaker 1: say hello. I know we're saying hello. There's nothing, there's nothing,
Speaker 1: No one has any control over us. Yeah. Um, it's
Speaker 1: very good to see you, as always you It's been
Speaker 1: too long, That's that's usually the case these days. I
Speaker 1: saw John Salada. We I talked with her last week
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Oh did you interview her? And I
Speaker 1: love her and we keep in touch. So do you? Yeah? Oh,
Speaker 1: good for you. Well, it's interesting because Jen and my
Speaker 1: daughter have a relationship because my daughter is now thirteen.
Speaker 1: Both my kids were born during our time on the office.
Speaker 1: I know, what was it that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So she's she's a big fan of the show. Now.
Speaker 1: It's it's so funny because she's both my kids. My
Speaker 1: my son has just started watching it, and and so
Speaker 1: both of them are huge fans. And and it was
Speaker 1: great to watch her see the show for the first
Speaker 1: time because she was like, wait, it's Mindy, it's it's
Speaker 1: b J, it's you know, all the people that were
Speaker 1: over for our Halloween parties and that she had no
Speaker 1: onceptob And then she was like, wait, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. Yeah. Oh yeah. And my son
Speaker 1: likes to tell people that, you know, he was on
Speaker 1: an episode of the Office. Who was it? Who was
Speaker 1: he again? So I think it was baby shower. Greg
Speaker 1: asked both Mike sher and I if we could bring
Speaker 1: our babies to set, okay, because Steve needed to hold
Speaker 1: a couple of babies, and our wives are in the
Speaker 1: background of the shot and the kids Michael's Michael's holding
Speaker 1: the two babies, and you see, uh, Mike Sure's wife
Speaker 1: and you see my wife kind of in the background
Speaker 1: behind it. That's so cool. Yeah. So my son, my
Speaker 1: eleven year old son, likes to make the point that
Speaker 1: he was on the Office. My gosh, that is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny. So you, um, let's go back to early
Speaker 1: two thousand's you are well, you did the first two apprentices,
Speaker 1: is that right? Season one and two? I did and
Speaker 1: Survivor I did. Now when with Survivor, was that early
Speaker 1: Survivor was before Survivor was was before the Apprentice, and
Speaker 1: then before Survivor was Eco Challenge the Adventure Race. Okay,
Speaker 1: now that you shot with Randall, I think Australia was
Speaker 1: like the third season of the Eco Challenge and that's
Speaker 1: where Randall, That's where Randall and I. So you found
Speaker 1: Randall in a bush in Australia, I would say Mark
Speaker 1: Burnett found him. And you were a camera operator. I
Speaker 1: was a camera operator and then I started deepeeing reality stuff.
Speaker 1: I was deepeing documentaries. I was doing low budget movies.
Speaker 1: So how did you get hooked up with the folks
Speaker 1: from the office that was all? Randall? Randall? Yeah, Randall
Speaker 1: got hired. I think Randall had some kind of relationship
Speaker 1: or new or got to know Ben silver and Silverman,
Speaker 1: and then I think it was Ben that brought him in.
Speaker 1: And because Randall and I knew the dance and you know,
Speaker 1: he was planning to operate, he wanted somebody that understood it,
Speaker 1: brought me in and h yeah, we did it together. Now,
Speaker 1: when you say do the dance, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: So when with the particular style of show because it
Speaker 1: was a mockumentary documentary. It was what we did in
Speaker 1: the bush, you know, for survivor, for whatever, and your
Speaker 1: storytelling from behind the camera, you're finding everything that you
Speaker 1: need to to find, and a lot of times you're
Speaker 1: by yourself, so you need to make it look like
Speaker 1: there are multiple cameras covering a scene and you're you're
Speaker 1: having to react quickly, you know, to catch the moments.
Speaker 1: I think that was sort of what was brought into
Speaker 1: the style of of The Office. I mean, it existed
Speaker 1: in the style of the original version, but I think
Speaker 1: we kind of honed it down. It was something that
Speaker 1: Randal and I did anyway for our reality and documentary stuff.
Speaker 1: So when you're shooting documentary reality type stuff, is anybody
Speaker 1: prompting you about what to get or in theory, there's
Speaker 1: a producer out there. But a lot of times when
Speaker 1: someone talks in your ear, it's more of an annoyance.
Speaker 1: It's it's all about having instincts and listening and being
Speaker 1: able able to kind of edit things within your head
Speaker 1: and understand what shots you need to tell the story
Speaker 1: interesting and on the show, you had earpieces on on
Speaker 1: the Office at least part of the time. And I remember,
Speaker 1: now you guys yanking them out. Now, why who was
Speaker 1: talking to you on the office. Well, it depends upon
Speaker 1: when when you ask that question, because there there would
Speaker 1: be times where you know, we had I think we
Speaker 1: had the smallest camera department in all of Hollywood. It
Speaker 1: was you know, it was random myself, it was Chris.
Speaker 1: It was ed for the first season, first two seasons.
Speaker 1: I think we had a did and the theory with
Speaker 1: it did what they would roll the iris, they would
Speaker 1: control things. But the problem is is that Randal and
Speaker 1: I kind of did all at ourselves. We were pulling
Speaker 1: our own focus. We were changing the exposure and when
Speaker 1: you do a camera move, and that did is realizing
Speaker 1: what it is and slowly doing pulling the iris. It's
Speaker 1: not as quick as me knowing, Okay, I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: to somebody over in the corner, and I see it's
Speaker 1: darker over there, so I'm gonna open up my exposure
Speaker 1: and pull my focus and zoom in for the shot.
Speaker 1: It's kind of multiple things going on at once. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that answered your question. No, it does.
Speaker 1: I mean it's also giving me a greater appreciation that
Speaker 1: you kind of knew what you were doing, which until
Speaker 1: this moment I didn't realize that you thank you. I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. No, no, but that's interesting. So in a way,
Speaker 1: because you guys were taking care of so much of
Speaker 1: it yourself, other people were just kind of getting in
Speaker 1: your way that you needed it to be more rugged,
Speaker 1: ragged or well. I mean that was the feel of
Speaker 1: the show. I mean, we we we would lay out,
Speaker 1: you know, you'd have a director come in and you
Speaker 1: talk about the shot and it's the only you know,
Speaker 1: there are very few shows that can on the same lens,
Speaker 1: start with a super wide lens and then zoom in
Speaker 1: tight to someone's face in the first moment and do
Speaker 1: a whip across the room to catch somebody else's reaction.
Speaker 1: You know. It's a plus for the show is that
Speaker 1: it could look a little dirty and didn't have to
Speaker 1: be perfect. I mean, I think we were good at
Speaker 1: what we did, but you could see, you know, when
Speaker 1: things aren't you know, immediately in focus or you're missing
Speaker 1: it and you're finding it. But it's all part of
Speaker 1: you know, the show, right. Was it a conscious decision
Speaker 1: by you? You're working in reality television? Did you want
Speaker 1: to be working in the scripted world or was this
Speaker 1: just a job that showed up I was playing in
Speaker 1: the scripted world. I would I would come in and
Speaker 1: operate on Scrubs and a handful of other shows. I
Speaker 1: was shooting scripted you low budget feature stuff, and I
Speaker 1: enjoyed it and it was something that was interesting for me. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: it came at the right time, you know. I ended up.
Speaker 1: I got dangay fever on Survivor Thailand and that I
Speaker 1: was sick for I don't know, like six months from that. It.
Speaker 1: Ultimately it did two wonderful things for me. Number One,
Speaker 1: the girlfriend that I had that took care of me.
Speaker 1: I realized I needed to propose to That was the
Speaker 1: most important. Number Two is it sort of knocked me
Speaker 1: out of reality television. I was supposed to go from
Speaker 1: that Survivor to do the next season of The Amazing
Speaker 1: Race because I was bouncing back and forth between five
Speaker 1: and Amazing Race, and I physically couldn't do it because
Speaker 1: I had no energy, I had no strength. And it
Speaker 1: was a little while after that then I got the
Speaker 1: call from Randall that said, hey, do you want to
Speaker 1: come and operate on this new show? And I jumped
Speaker 1: at the opportunity. You know, once you're working in a
Speaker 1: particular field, you get kind of buttonholed into it and
Speaker 1: it's what you get known for and it's where you
Speaker 1: end up. And you know, so it was nice to
Speaker 1: break that gravitational pull in that direction and to get
Speaker 1: into scripted um. He attributed this to Greg. But one
Speaker 1: of the things that Randall talked about was this sort
Speaker 1: of adage, everything that makes it harder makes it better.
Speaker 1: There was originally Einstein or something, but it the idea
Speaker 1: was Einstein, Greg Greg Einstein, Randolph. It's all the same
Speaker 1: um that the idea that you didn't want to shoot
Speaker 1: something perfectly, like having to fight through a pillar that
Speaker 1: was in the middle of the room, or or even
Speaker 1: moving a plant over into the shots appear to make
Speaker 1: it more difficult without a doubt. Well, and it's also
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, after takes you would learn the
Speaker 1: script and know when the line was. You didn't want
Speaker 1: to beat a whip to somebody who had a line.
Speaker 1: You wanted a reason to have to pan over to accounting,
Speaker 1: to whip over to Stanley. You know, you needed that moment.
Speaker 1: You didn't want to beat it there. But you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you did well. I remember actually, now that I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about it, you guys would ask at times for
Speaker 1: uh handles exactly, particularly if the line was short, without
Speaker 1: a doubt and a handle. It would just be something
Speaker 1: as simple as a H or Michael, yeah, just something.
Speaker 1: And then it just gave us that excuse to do
Speaker 1: that whip to that person, because a lot of times,
Speaker 1: you know, it's impossible to truly cover a true conversation
Speaker 1: when you got six people talking, and when people talk
Speaker 1: naturally and they're saying something as simple as why yes
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you want to be able to get
Speaker 1: that and sell the joke. So just to have a
Speaker 1: little handle on there, you know, gave us a fighting chance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was great because the camera was definitely
Speaker 1: a character in the show and and it was great
Speaker 1: to be a part of that. And it did you know,
Speaker 1: there were there were scenes that were written as a
Speaker 1: spy shot, and there were scenes that were written you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: the camera's obviously there, so you can feel free to
Speaker 1: look at it. But there were also scenes that I
Speaker 1: think we discovered once we shot them, what felt better
Speaker 1: and what worked better. And you know, it might have
Speaker 1: started out as a spy shot and then someone was
Speaker 1: caught and you saw that little look to Cameron, a
Speaker 1: reaction and a change in a tone, and um for
Speaker 1: a comedy, it was very different stylistically, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think that the Brittish show was very different stylistically. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, one of my proudest accomplishments is
Speaker 1: being a part of this show that has, you know,
Speaker 1: become so much more than I feel like it ever was. Now,
Speaker 1: however many years it's been, you know, since it was
Speaker 1: on the air, and that it still holds up and
Speaker 1: that the joke still lands and that the comedy is
Speaker 1: still there. Yeah. Do you remember you shot most of
Speaker 1: the talking heads? Yes, that I did. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the most difficult or some of the most difficult things
Speaker 1: that you had to shoot from a standpoint of not
Speaker 1: laughing or I'm fortunate that I am kind of a
Speaker 1: laughing on the inside clown and I could keep it in.
Speaker 1: And the good thing about breaking in a talking head
Speaker 1: is the camera was on a tripod, not on my shoulder.
Speaker 1: The bigger challenges was to break during scenes that we
Speaker 1: were shooting and the cameras on my shoulder, and there
Speaker 1: are some extra little shakes and giggles. Um. And there's
Speaker 1: one particular scene that I remember, not a talking head
Speaker 1: of of Steve Krill. I don't know what it was,
Speaker 1: Steve Krell saying, ah, how Benjamin Franklin is a douche.
Speaker 1: We had the Ben Franklin uh impersonator as a stripper. Yes,
Speaker 1: and and I don't know what it was, but I
Speaker 1: was in tears and I could not hold the camera
Speaker 1: because I was giggling so much with that moment. And
Speaker 1: that was the one true time that I broke. Now
Speaker 1: it was a regular thing, like Jens Alata broke a
Speaker 1: lot when she did her interviews for the Talking Heads. Yes,
Speaker 1: we discussed she having to be banished from the room.
Speaker 1: I often she would have to go out and and
Speaker 1: we'd give them another eyeline. Um. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: for Talking Heads, rain Dwight had the most ridiculous talking
Speaker 1: heads of anybody and comedy and without a doubt, and
Speaker 1: those were the ones that I feel like not only
Speaker 1: broke him, but broke everybody around him. Were you consciously,
Speaker 1: I mean you talked about the camera being a character.
Speaker 1: What characters did you like? Well? It was so funny though,
Speaker 1: because I feel like I was so invested in so
Speaker 1: much of it, and and it became a thing that
Speaker 1: it was like I knew that I could give you
Speaker 1: a look and throw the camera your way, and you
Speaker 1: were always there to give me a reaction. And and
Speaker 1: I recall that I could have a shot of John
Speaker 1: or of Michael, and I could just peek over and
Speaker 1: catch your eye and give you that look and do
Speaker 1: a whip to you, and you would be there with
Speaker 1: some kind of eye roll or giggle or something that
Speaker 1: would make me laugh. And it was a worse while
Speaker 1: worthwhile moment, know, and I know that it wasn't everybody
Speaker 1: that I could do that with. And I know that
Speaker 1: you and I had that relationship and and it worked well,
Speaker 1: you know. And I know that the accounting department as
Speaker 1: a whole, knowing your guy's backgrounds, I know you guys
Speaker 1: always had your little bits that you did and that
Speaker 1: you worked really hard in trying to find those moments.
Speaker 1: I mean, in the early days, you know, all those
Speaker 1: other characters kind of blossomed into what they were. They
Speaker 1: were all so minimal, and it was fun to find
Speaker 1: moments and to find stories that weren't necessarily there, and
Speaker 1: to make more out of a moment, and to be
Speaker 1: able to do it with just a look, you know,
Speaker 1: throwing the camera to you to get a giggle, and
Speaker 1: then finding Angela being annoyed because you're giggling at whatever
Speaker 1: Dwight is saying at the moment. It was priceless and
Speaker 1: it made it in and it was funny. Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, I want everyone to know I did not
Speaker 1: prompt him to say those things. This was that was
Speaker 1: a spontaneous thing. And I have told people that you
Speaker 1: specifically we would do like the wide receiver quarterback nod,
Speaker 1: like I got you, got me, I got you, It's
Speaker 1: it's coming. I told John this story. He just railed
Speaker 1: into me. He really like, We're like, we're having a
Speaker 1: great scene and now you want to take credit. But
Speaker 1: you know what that that was my small contribution at
Speaker 1: times too, without scenes well and when they couldn't get
Speaker 1: it together, that's it. Randall and I would have the
Speaker 1: running joke that we would throw to John and he
Speaker 1: would give us the number four, which was a particular
Speaker 1: look that he would give to camera nub four. We
Speaker 1: had it numbered, so there were a couple of looks
Speaker 1: that were sort of the John looks, and and it
Speaker 1: depending on what the scene was, we would know this
Speaker 1: is a Dwight moment. Up he's going to give us
Speaker 1: the number four. I'm throwing to John there it is
Speaker 1: the number four. Well, and that's that's so funny because
Speaker 1: my really my question about that like the you know,
Speaker 1: if the camera is a character, then obviously you're affecting
Speaker 1: that relationship, but also like, did you feel like Jim
Speaker 1: was more simpatico with you know, the documentarian or oh
Speaker 1: without a doubt. So yeah, I think that Jim's character
Speaker 1: as a whole, more than anyone else, Jim was the
Speaker 1: one that had the biggest relationship with camera. He was
Speaker 1: the one truly grounded, relatable person on the show, and
Speaker 1: he was the one that I think had the best
Speaker 1: relationship with the crew and that he kind of knew
Speaker 1: what we were going through and what we were dealing with.
Speaker 1: So you could always find Jim for a look or
Speaker 1: a nod and and you know, he got it right.
Speaker 1: So what was always discussed externally was the the character's
Speaker 1: relationship to the camera and whether it was there or
Speaker 1: it wasn't there, or was it seen or not seen
Speaker 1: or were trying to hide from it or whatever? Was
Speaker 1: there any discussion about you as the cameraman having an
Speaker 1: opinion or having a perspective on what you were seeing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like our perspective came across in
Speaker 1: how we covered the situations, So I don't I feel
Speaker 1: like we went into it with a plan. I think
Speaker 1: something kind of grew out of it. You know, there
Speaker 1: were characters who almost never played the camera. I feel
Speaker 1: like Mindy never really played. Yeah, like I did more
Speaker 1: than obsc I feel like, yeah, I mean Creed, no, Kate, No,
Speaker 1: not really, Leslie. I mean I feel like they were
Speaker 1: aware but just doing their thing. You know. Michael would
Speaker 1: get caught and he would catch the camera and see
Speaker 1: the situation that he was in and feel caught. Jim
Speaker 1: seemed to always know where the camera was at all times.
Speaker 1: Um Kevin seemed to be aware of the camera because
Speaker 1: it was another kind of play toy for him. Dwight,
Speaker 1: it went kind of both ways. There would be times
Speaker 1: where he would kind of try to present play to
Speaker 1: the camera and other times where he would kind of
Speaker 1: just get caught. Did you feel like how much did
Speaker 1: you feel open to making suggestions on the show. Well,
Speaker 1: what was interesting with the show is that that we
Speaker 1: had we had great directors. We had a who's who
Speaker 1: of directors come into the show. You know, when you
Speaker 1: have Paul feig Kin, kopis Um, Harold Ramos, J. J. Abrams,
Speaker 1: what was great. I mean, ultimately all of these directors
Speaker 1: were my directing school and and my whole thing once
Speaker 1: I started directing on the show was that I throughout
Speaker 1: my time there, I tried to pull something from each
Speaker 1: of these directors to keep with me, whether it was
Speaker 1: a positive thing or a negative thing that I learned.
Speaker 1: With all of these directors coming in, they all had
Speaker 1: such respect, which I'm thankful for for both Randall and
Speaker 1: I to let us do our thing because we knew
Speaker 1: the show so well. And I think Charles McDougald might
Speaker 1: have been sort of the only director that was so
Speaker 1: specific with his moves. You know, he had such a
Speaker 1: vision of it that he would say, zoom into his face,
Speaker 1: down to the credit card, up to the computer, down
Speaker 1: to the keyboard, right to his face. You know, he
Speaker 1: had these other times, you know, most of the directors
Speaker 1: would say, well, yeah, just cover of this and make
Speaker 1: it feel you know, like the office, and Randal and
Speaker 1: I would do our thing. Okay. Quiz question Okay, you
Speaker 1: have to answer honestly, what type of scene would cause
Speaker 1: the biggest disruption in our work day or week. The
Speaker 1: conference room scenes were the black holes scenes. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were brilliant for what it was. But when you
Speaker 1: got the entire cast sitting in chairs and you have
Speaker 1: Michael Scott doing one of his bits, and depending on
Speaker 1: what kind of mood you were in, but depending on
Speaker 1: what kind of mood John was in, who was messing
Speaker 1: with who it would it would decide if we were
Speaker 1: going to be there for hours or if we were
Speaker 1: going to get through it. You know. But constantly people
Speaker 1: were breaking, people were messing around, people were Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was chaos. Okay, that's a good answer. You you failed
Speaker 1: the quiz. Oh shit, really yeah. I have said that
Speaker 1: nothing could halt production like a Jim Pam scene. Oh see,
Speaker 1: I thought you meant an overall scene. Oh god, there
Speaker 1: would be all sorts of huddles and groups and clearings
Speaker 1: of sets when there would be like a Jim and
Speaker 1: Pam moment. I had a very specific Tom Waits impression
Speaker 1: that I would do, which would be something like there's
Speaker 1: a discussion at themonitor and the writers would get so
Speaker 1: aggravated but it was true though the writers would get called,
Speaker 1: they would all come down, we would dissect the scene,
Speaker 1: we would rebuild it. It also don't depended on who
Speaker 1: was directing and who had written it, you know, and
Speaker 1: who was present at the time those early Jim and
Speaker 1: Pam scenes where they were just starting or I mean
Speaker 1: the kiss, Oh my god, you know, we cleared set.
Speaker 1: I feel like for an hour and a half. I
Speaker 1: think that that Kim, because it was Kim coppas that
Speaker 1: was with them on set, and then just Randle and
Speaker 1: I came in and we were shoved in corners just
Speaker 1: to see where we would get our shots from, and
Speaker 1: we had our game plan and just getting to the
Speaker 1: point of rolling on that. Why do why do you
Speaker 1: think those were so important? Well, again, I think that
Speaker 1: their relationship was such a great thing, and it was
Speaker 1: a slow burn early on, and they didn't want to
Speaker 1: go too far too fast, and they wanted to keep
Speaker 1: it grounded and they wanted to keep it real. And
Speaker 1: I think that it was finding that exact tone that
Speaker 1: kept everybody happy, that kept their relationship, you know, on point,
Speaker 1: to give it that slow build. And the great thing
Speaker 1: about their relationship is it felt real and it felt grounded,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't one of these ridiculous, romantic, silly things
Speaker 1: that you seeing a lot of shows that just happens.
Speaker 1: It was a slow burn that basically grew fruits of
Speaker 1: their labor. Right. But you guys, I mean, it's occurring
Speaker 1: to me right now. You guys were so instrumental in
Speaker 1: telling that story because it really was just about you
Speaker 1: guys finding very very small moments. Because they were so small,
Speaker 1: they were super charged, right, And and with that, the
Speaker 1: cameras were always hidden. It was always at the end
Speaker 1: of the lens. You know, you would you would be
Speaker 1: so still that the only movement in the camera would
Speaker 1: literally be your heartbeat. Yeah, I mean, I think that
Speaker 1: those moments were so well written and so well acted
Speaker 1: that it was easy for us, being hidden, to tell
Speaker 1: our side of that story. And then you got to
Speaker 1: tell like a fun love a couple of fun love
Speaker 1: stories with Dwight and Angela and Kelly and Ryan, which
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite and and and just the same
Speaker 1: with with Ellie and Andy. Yes, you know, there were
Speaker 1: a lot of relationships that that blossomed within that that office. Um,
Speaker 1: anything specifically different about how those things were, I mean
Speaker 1: the Dwight and Angelo was really about, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to like fight hunt them down sort of like
Speaker 1: you know, maybe some pairing on Survivor, right, And that
Speaker 1: one was specifically fun just because of who those characters
Speaker 1: are and how they dealt with each other, and and
Speaker 1: it was it was wonderful in its own right. And
Speaker 1: then you know, Mindy and and Ryan was its own
Speaker 1: dysfunctional relationship that you know, had other echoes of based
Speaker 1: on reality kind of moments that were kind of fun
Speaker 1: to to to be aware of, sort of like with
Speaker 1: the with the Ryan and Kelly stories. When I would
Speaker 1: we would be reading an episode and a table read,
Speaker 1: and I would sort of immediately go and be like,
Speaker 1: who wrote this episode? Again? Okay, all right, I see
Speaker 1: where this one's coming from. Well, I had heard that
Speaker 1: there were sometimes where when those two were fighting in
Speaker 1: real life, that the writers would come together and make
Speaker 1: sure that there was some scene that they were making
Speaker 1: out on set just to kind of poke the bear. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: that sounds like it, like like Mike Sheer playing most
Speaker 1: which which well in that first season where they made
Speaker 1: him grow the beard and keep it, I remember we
Speaker 1: had there was like a we didn't get a shot,
Speaker 1: or we needed him with the beard and he had
Speaker 1: to wear it to the Emmys or something ridiculous. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that, man? No, I have some vague recollection
Speaker 1: of it. Randall leaves. Randall left, uh and I became
Speaker 1: the DP and Sarah Levy came in. Sarah Levy was
Speaker 1: a camera operator and she came in and day played
Speaker 1: with us when Randall was still around. But she was
Speaker 1: also just a great fit for the show. So it
Speaker 1: was perfect to get her in. You know, right now,
Speaker 1: Sarah's doing she did Captain Marvel. She Yeah, she works
Speaker 1: all the time. She's a rock star. Yeah. Was it
Speaker 1: a big change for you taking over that role on
Speaker 1: the show or not really? I mean I was fortunate
Speaker 1: enough that I knew the show so well and had
Speaker 1: worked so closely with Randall that I felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: I was, I was ready and it was an easy
Speaker 1: transition to make. But then you start directing. Actually that
Speaker 1: was before Randall left that I got my first opportunity.
Speaker 1: You got your first opportunity during Happy Hour? Was it
Speaker 1: happy Hour or was it? It was? It was Happy Hour? Sorry,
Speaker 1: because they the name changed at some point in time.
Speaker 1: It was Date Mike, but it got changed to Happy Hour.
Speaker 1: Happy Hour was the episode and that was in season six.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about that? Was that? Was that
Speaker 1: something you'd always wanted to do? It was something I
Speaker 1: was interested in doing. Um. Greg gave a number of
Speaker 1: us our first true opportunities to direct. He gave Randall
Speaker 1: the opportunity that Randall took and ran with. Uh. He
Speaker 1: gave it to Dave Rogers, editor, to Claire Scanlon who
Speaker 1: was an editor. But I feel like Greg gave us
Speaker 1: all these opportunities that helped step us all to you
Speaker 1: know where we are now as directors. UM. I was
Speaker 1: thrilled to get the opportunity to direct. It was great
Speaker 1: being on this show because I felt like I had
Speaker 1: so much support from the cast because they all knew me.
Speaker 1: I you know, I always got some level of ship
Speaker 1: from somebody, but I felt super supported and um it
Speaker 1: was also a great episode because we spent so much
Speaker 1: time out of the office and I think we were
Speaker 1: in a what's the arcade name the two names the Dusters.
Speaker 1: It was like that, yeah, but it was a David
Speaker 1: Buster was the David Busters up at Universal and but
Speaker 1: the name it ended up going with was sid and Dexter's,
Speaker 1: which are the names of my kids. Well, I pitched it.
Speaker 1: They were kind enough to accept it, which was kind
Speaker 1: of fun. Um, what's so great about this episode to
Speaker 1: me is that you know, he's getting set up by
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam with one of Pam's friends, and he's
Speaker 1: so sweet and genuine to this woman until he realizes
Speaker 1: that he's on a date, and then he goes back
Speaker 1: to his car and he puts on his kangle hat
Speaker 1: on backwards and he becomes date Mike. He becomes this horrible,
Speaker 1: horrible other person that he that Michael Scott believes is
Speaker 1: what he needs to be to make this date work.
Speaker 1: And he causes a huge scene and you know, everything
Speaker 1: with this woman that Pam has trying to set him
Speaker 1: up with goes to pot but he ends up ultimately
Speaker 1: making an impression with the manager of the bar and
Speaker 1: gets a phone number, so he leaves thinking he succeeded.
Speaker 1: So it was ultimately a win from Michael in a
Speaker 1: very sad waystrous way. Right. Um, Well, you mentioned people
Speaker 1: who Greg gave an opportunity to direct, and the support
Speaker 1: that you felt from the actors because you were a part.
Speaker 1: But you know, he also gave Steve an opportunity and
Speaker 1: John and Rain and myself an opportunity to direct, and
Speaker 1: I think we felt so at ease because of the
Speaker 1: support that you gave. On the other side of it
Speaker 1: was uh kind of a yeah. We kind of helped
Speaker 1: each other out without a doubt. You know, the the
Speaker 1: the the show was like a family because there were
Speaker 1: so many people that were on the show for so
Speaker 1: many seasons, and you know, to spend that much time
Speaker 1: with that many people, to have lunches with everybody day
Speaker 1: in and day out, to be trapped on our small
Speaker 1: set day in and day out, you have no choice
Speaker 1: but build a friendship, right and I you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's the most fortunate experience I've ever had and I
Speaker 1: think I will ever have in TV. You know, it
Speaker 1: has truly given me everything else that has come since,
Speaker 1: and it has set me up to deal with everything
Speaker 1: that I've dealt with and taught me, you know, to
Speaker 1: get to watch actors who start out as kids and
Speaker 1: nuancet to become huge mega celebrities, and junior high kids
Speaker 1: today are binge watching it, you know, day in and
Speaker 1: day out. It's amazing. I I love the fact that
Speaker 1: my dad has all of the swag that I got
Speaker 1: from the show. Your dad, I gave all my stuff.
Speaker 1: So he wears the jackets, he wears the hats, and
Speaker 1: you know, my dad is eighty six. He goes out
Speaker 1: to the store whatever was wearing an Office season two
Speaker 1: season three jacket or hat, and no matter where he goes,
Speaker 1: he gets stopped and somebody's like, wow, did you work
Speaker 1: on the Office, and and it makes him laugh and
Speaker 1: he makes him proud and uh, yeah, it's funny. When
Speaker 1: did you here that Steve was leaving? Do you remember, Oh, boy,
Speaker 1: did you when you realized that he was leaving and
Speaker 1: we went and we shot Goodbye Michael? Do you remember
Speaker 1: emotions that came up again? Because I'm not only a
Speaker 1: laughing on the inside clown, I'm also a crying on
Speaker 1: the inside clown. So it was a running joke on
Speaker 1: set to guess who was going to cry next on
Speaker 1: during that week, because boy, it was. It was contagious
Speaker 1: and it just went around and there was a lot
Speaker 1: of emotion and all I were members going, man, we're
Speaker 1: never going to get through this week. It was the
Speaker 1: end of an era, you know, the fact that he
Speaker 1: was leaving, and it was one of those things that
Speaker 1: there was that level of unsure nous of wondering what
Speaker 1: happens now? You know, is this ship just going to
Speaker 1: immediately sink as soon as he steps off of it?
Speaker 1: Or can it continue to sail? Well? You you directed
Speaker 1: the next episode after he left Inner Circle with Will.
Speaker 1: Do you remember any specific I don't know, pressure that
Speaker 1: you felt or I hadn't realized that that was the
Speaker 1: one after he left. Yeah, what a horrible thing to
Speaker 1: do to me, Probably just because no one else was
Speaker 1: willing to take that episode. Yeah, it was all on
Speaker 1: my shoulders. How was that directing that right after Steve left? Well, again,
Speaker 1: it was it was that whole thing that the show
Speaker 1: must go on. We were still marching forward. It was
Speaker 1: sad not having Steve round, but we still had a
Speaker 1: job to do, and you know, to have Will, there
Speaker 1: wasn't a bad thing, right, And then the office goes
Speaker 1: to Florida and you direct two of those episodes, and
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit hurt that you didn't mention your
Speaker 1: favorite director that you worked with was me, hands down,
Speaker 1: who directed another one of those episodes? Yes, of the
Speaker 1: tallahassee episodes. Now, as a first time director of the show.
Speaker 1: What were your biggest challenges? Well, you screwed me. I
Speaker 1: mean that my biggest challenge was you actually excellent. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if we have discussed this before, but
Speaker 1: I will tell a story. So in my episode, there
Speaker 1: was a little bit of Ryan actually also kind of
Speaker 1: flirting with Ellie Oh sorry, Aaron played by Ellie Kemper.
Speaker 1: And they decided to break into the kitchen and they
Speaker 1: were gonna make a waffle. Yes, they were gonna make
Speaker 1: hum guess. And so suddenly some people came into the
Speaker 1: kitchen who worked there, and they weren't supposed to be there.
Speaker 1: This was at a big hotel. So they hide under
Speaker 1: a table, okay, and we shoot this and I'm looking
Speaker 1: and I'm very attuned to their performance under the table,
Speaker 1: and you know, I really felt like I did really
Speaker 1: great on my job. And we had a background performer,
Speaker 1: and we had background performers who were walking back and forth.
Speaker 1: You could see their legs and they were in the shot.
Speaker 1: And at one point a background performer was standing right
Speaker 1: behind the industrial table where they were hiding under, and um,
Speaker 1: please can I can I And I'm I'm I have
Speaker 1: a vision now? Was this the guy that was cracking
Speaker 1: the imaginary eggs. Yes, So I'm very focused on our
Speaker 1: principal actors. You are supposedly looking through the camera lens
Speaker 1: at what we're shooting and making sure that everything looks appropriate.
Speaker 1: And there's a background performer who for multiple takes stood
Speaker 1: above the table just in and took a bowl and
Speaker 1: cracked imaginary eggs on that bowl and did the yoke
Speaker 1: thing and threw the eggs away and kept cracking eggs
Speaker 1: into this bowl. So I go into edit this episode
Speaker 1: and they're like, see the guy back there And I'm like, what, No,
Speaker 1: b J looks great, what do you mean? And they're like, no,
Speaker 1: the guy cracking the imaginary eggs. So they literally had
Speaker 1: to go in and zoom in to cut out now
Speaker 1: that you could only see the guy's hands, Like you
Speaker 1: couldn't see space or anything else, but you could see
Speaker 1: him fake cracking. And here's my big question. Yes, was
Speaker 1: it my camera or was it the other camera? Actually,
Speaker 1: here's the important thing. The important thing is is that
Speaker 1: I think we only had one camera going because we
Speaker 1: were shooting. I think should have been watched. You either
Speaker 1: shot it or you should have been watching. I think
Speaker 1: I again was mesmerized much bought like you by the performance.
Speaker 1: That's my jobs. That's my job. I'm the director. You
Speaker 1: need to pay attention to what you're added to the list,
Speaker 1: Brian Um, season nine comes, you hear the show is
Speaker 1: coming to an end. What's your What was your feeling then?
Speaker 1: To me, it was time. It felt right for my
Speaker 1: career personally, it was time because then it was after
Speaker 1: this show that I stepped away from camera as a
Speaker 1: whole and just started directing. And you know, it was
Speaker 1: interesting for me for my career. When I got my representation,
Speaker 1: when I got my agents, they said to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's time for you to step away and just become
Speaker 1: a full time director. And I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: the office gave me all of these opportunities. I'm not
Speaker 1: leaving them. I'm going to stay and finish the show.
Speaker 1: And you know, I was. I was happy to be
Speaker 1: a part of it again. To be on a show
Speaker 1: for nine seasons is in my mind, unheard of. It'll
Speaker 1: be the longest I'll ever be, you know, on any show.
Speaker 1: And I feel super fortunate and I'm glad that I
Speaker 1: stuck it out and was there for the whole run
Speaker 1: up the show so you laugh and cry on the inside.
Speaker 1: Did you do you remember specific emotions like it's the
Speaker 1: last final table read. It was a great episode, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you remember of that episode.
Speaker 1: Greg was writing up to it was almost as if
Speaker 1: he did not want the show to end. He kept
Speaker 1: writing more and more, and we kept shooting more and
Speaker 1: more and more. Yeah, was that your first acting work
Speaker 1: as documentary crew member? I was told, I was assured
Speaker 1: that they were going to replace my voice with a
Speaker 1: more masculine documentary documentarian voice. So I'm in Dwight's car,
Speaker 1: he's dry having and it scripted that the dogumentarian asks
Speaker 1: him a question, and I was asking him the question,
Speaker 1: so he had someone to answer to. And again the
Speaker 1: discussion was, Oh, yeah, we'll we'll change it in the edit.
Speaker 1: Lo and behold, there's my My first and only acting
Speaker 1: credit for anything is the Office. So I guess as
Speaker 1: things go, it's it's not bad. What do you think
Speaker 1: it's harder acting or operating a camera? Oh? Boy? I
Speaker 1: think acting is harder only because you're getting judged constantly
Speaker 1: by everybody. I feel like my operating can get judged
Speaker 1: one or two people. But yes, but but but nobody's
Speaker 1: judging my physical appearance, nobody's nobody's seeing into my soul.
Speaker 1: What are you most thankful for the show? I mean,
Speaker 1: the show gave me so much. It gave me, you know,
Speaker 1: nine years of regular work, which is huge in this business.
Speaker 1: It gave me basically the career that I've continued on,
Speaker 1: you know, Greg Daniels, gave me my opportunities to direct.
Speaker 1: It gave me friendships with a whole lot of people
Speaker 1: that I never would have met if I hadn't have
Speaker 1: been part of the show, you know. But it also
Speaker 1: gave me such an amazing look into sort of the
Speaker 1: underbelly and behind the curtain of what it takes to
Speaker 1: make a show. You know. I was very privileged to
Speaker 1: get to go to meetings and get to be in
Speaker 1: rooms and get to hear conversations and get to be
Speaker 1: part of conversations that you know, in any other case,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been provided to And it's hands down,
Speaker 1: it will be a highlight of my career. Yeah, where
Speaker 1: do you think that you would be right now if
Speaker 1: the office had never happened, if you hadn't gotten dany
Speaker 1: fever boy, That's a very good question. I I don't
Speaker 1: want to think about that. Ryan. I feel very fortunate,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I mean, I feel like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be where I am now without the show, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about where I would be
Speaker 1: without the UM. Well, thank you so much, busy big
Speaker 1: time director. I don't know about that. You're a busy,
Speaker 1: big time director, happy to be working, and I so
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming and talking to me about these old times.
Speaker 1: It's my pleasure. It's really fun. I'm sure there's other
Speaker 1: stuff that I've forgotten. It doesn't matter. Now. I have
Speaker 1: one other thing. Did you do you remember the conversation
Speaker 1: with J. J Abrams his first day on set? No,
Speaker 1: what was the conversation? How he freaked out his first
Speaker 1: day on set? Oh? Tell this, J J. Abrams freaked
Speaker 1: out the first down set. So the first season we
Speaker 1: shot the show in Culver City. We used the Felicity
Speaker 1: offices right and when he was on our set because
Speaker 1: it was a copy of that set. The conference room
Speaker 1: was his office on Felicity when he ran that show,
Speaker 1: and he said every time he was on the set
Speaker 1: it freaked him out because all he remembered was that's
Speaker 1: a conference room. But that's my office office. No, I
Speaker 1: did not remember that. Yeah, I remember that. Um J J.
Speaker 1: Abrams wanted to direct a whole season of the show,
Speaker 1: and Greg said, no, he wanted direct a whole season.
Speaker 1: Wanted to come in and direct a whole season. Does
Speaker 1: that guy have the time to season? I don't know
Speaker 1: how he had wanted to do everything he does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember him bring us food trucks every day. But
Speaker 1: I remember also we had a conversation just in between
Speaker 1: takes about Coldplay, and I had mentioned I was a fan,
Speaker 1: And the next day he comes in and he says, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I got you the new CD Cold Plays new CD.
Speaker 1: I thought you might enjoy it. I was like, who
Speaker 1: are you? How can you have time to go get
Speaker 1: this place exactly? How can you be this nice of
Speaker 1: a person? Yeah? No, I mean so many. Harold Ramos,
Speaker 1: Harold Ramoso? Who else? I mean? Jon Favreau was great.
Speaker 1: Brian bamb Gardner, Brian bomb Gardner, he was unbelievable. I
Speaker 1: recall he was strong. He brought it. You know, we didn't.
Speaker 1: We weren't sure, but he brought it. Thanks buddy, you
Speaker 1: got it, my friend. Well there you have it. This
Speaker 1: is what I heard Matt Son said that I Brian
Speaker 1: bomb Gardner was one of the best directors ever in
Speaker 1: the history of the Office. His words, not mine. I
Speaker 1: hope you all enjoyed this, this mini series on camera
Speaker 1: as character as much as I did. Do yourself a
Speaker 1: favor and go back and watch an episode of the show,
Speaker 1: a scene of the show that you enjoyed, and just
Speaker 1: imagine Matt and Randall holding the cameras trying their darnedest
Speaker 1: not to laugh. It's a fun exercise. Thank you all
Speaker 1: for listening, Have a wonderful week, and I will see
Speaker 1: you next time for another installment, another chapter of The
Speaker 1: Office Deep Dive. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
Speaker 1: Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producer
Speaker 1: is Adam Massias, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and
Speaker 1: our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man in
Speaker 1: the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
Speaker 1: performed by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode
Speaker 1: was mixed by seth Olandskip