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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 2: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple card playing Android

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Speaker 2: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: All that seems kind of moot in the context of

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Speaker 3: maybe our government's going to shut down tonight at midnight

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Speaker 3: when we'll be fast asleep. But Wendy Schiller, she joined

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Speaker 3: us in Brown University, and we want to get some

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Speaker 3: informed comments about how this might play out here.

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Speaker 4: So Wendy A, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Not sure if you're in the business of predicting shutdowns

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Speaker 3: or not, but I'd love to get your perspective on

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Speaker 3: just kind of how the whole process here is unwinding.

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Speaker 3: In Washington, We've got a couple of civilians, President elect

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Speaker 3: Trump and Elon Musk right smack in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the discussion in the news cycle. And I've got a

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Speaker 3: President of the United States who I haven't heard anything from.

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Speaker 3: So house is developing well.

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Speaker 5: I think President Biden has seeded sort of the negotiating

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Speaker 5: power of the Democrats to Jakim Jeffries, who's the Democratic

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Speaker 5: leader in the House Representatives.

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Speaker 4: And Chuck Schumer, Senator from New York.

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Speaker 5: Who's still the majority leader of the United States Senate

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Speaker 5: till January third. So there basically Biden said, you know,

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Speaker 5: you decide what our position will be, and I'll likely

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Speaker 5: you know, sign it.

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Speaker 4: So he's seated all of that negotiating power to them.

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Speaker 5: And I think this is really important for everyone to remember.

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Speaker 5: We have a bi cameral legislature. You know, the founders

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Speaker 5: set it up this way on purpose. You two institutions

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Speaker 5: that have very different electoral incentives, very different internal structure,

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Speaker 5: different terms of office.

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Speaker 4: And we're seeing that play out right now. I mean,

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Speaker 4: the Senate's just literally hanging out waiting.

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Speaker 5: For the House to deliver something, and the Democrats control

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Speaker 5: the Senate, so all of this is about.

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Speaker 4: Well, the passes the House, it'll go through not so fast.

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Speaker 5: The Democratic controlled Senate will say no, we're not going

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Speaker 5: to pass it. So the Democrats have some risk here

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Speaker 5: because they be party to the shutdown.

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Speaker 4: The way the Republicans are.

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Speaker 5: And since it's a divided government right now, it's really

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Speaker 5: unclear for the voters who are you actually going to blame.

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Speaker 5: Right now, the Democrats have decided they're going to blame

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Speaker 5: elon Musk. They have made Musk a target of their communications,

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Speaker 5: and you're starting to see a little bit of this

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Speaker 5: creep into some of those Republicans who voted against the

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Speaker 5: package yesterday.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we just had a story that came out

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Speaker 6: on the Bloomberg terminal saying that House Speaker Mike Johnson

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Speaker 6: is currently strategizing a way to rush a spending bill

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Speaker 6: through the Chamber to avoid a government shut down ahead

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Speaker 6: of that midnight deadline that we've been talking about. I

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Speaker 6: do know that the longest government shut down in recent

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Speaker 6: history was in twenty eighteen under the Trump administration. It

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Speaker 6: lasted thirty five days. If we were to enter into

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Speaker 6: a government shutdown, how do people actually analyze and predict

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Speaker 6: the longevity of how long it could last.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, if you're thinking Trump and Trump's strategy,

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Speaker 5: you think, well, if we're going to go into US shutdown,

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Speaker 5: let's shut it down till I get inaugurated, and then

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Speaker 5: then of course we'll open it back up because at

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Speaker 5: that point the Republicans will control the House and the Senate,

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Speaker 5: so we'll have more sway and he's willing to sort

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Speaker 5: of live with the costs that are incurred. Usually, you know,

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Speaker 5: a shutdown on this length usually costs several billion dollars,

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Speaker 5: not only in pay for federal employees, but for all

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Speaker 5: sorts of disruptions to all sorts of services that the

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Speaker 5: federal government provides to the economy. So you're going to

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Speaker 5: see a cost here. But then Trump gets to be

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Speaker 5: the hero by reopening.

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Speaker 4: The government on his terms, and I think that's the

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Speaker 4: way he's thinking.

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Speaker 5: The debt ceiling is the interesting question here because the

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Speaker 5: Republicans have voted against this bill yesterday, really voted against

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Speaker 5: it because the dead ceiling extension ran through twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: seven and basically gave Trump an unlimited checkbook. And they

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Speaker 5: are deficit hawks, and even they were not willing to

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Speaker 5: go there for Donald Trump. So there must be something

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Speaker 5: that they're sensing about how they would face the voters

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Speaker 5: again in twenty six that says we don't want to

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Speaker 5: be responsible for blowing up the federal.

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Speaker 4: Debt and the deficit even more than it is.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we're sitting here in December, we're still about

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Speaker 6: a month away from inauguration day. Paul and I were

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Speaker 6: chatting earlier how typical Is it historically that we have

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Speaker 6: the president elect implementing it weighing in on these things.

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Speaker 6: Where is Biden and Harris in this conversation? Is this

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Speaker 6: all typical?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's you know, we haven't had as

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Speaker 5: much ringmanship, let's say, in December with an election switch.

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Speaker 5: We've certainly hadmanship with Ronald Reagan in December, with Barack

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Speaker 5: Obama in December.

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Speaker 4: So you've had sitting presidents have this issue.

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Speaker 5: But the transition in power, I mean, it does really happen, right,

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Speaker 5: I mean, you won the election, You're going to be president.

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Speaker 5: But in terms of the Trump sway of the GOP,

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Speaker 5: that's what we're talking about here, is that it is

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Speaker 5: a wholly owned subsidiary of Donald Trump. But right now

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Speaker 5: we're seeing cracks in that coalition. And the question is

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Speaker 5: what's driving those cracks. Is it get rid of Elon Musk.

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Speaker 5: Is it thinking that this is just a bridge too

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Speaker 5: far in terms of federal spending, or is that they

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Speaker 5: think they'll get some political gain by shutting it down

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Speaker 5: and we open under Trump with more capital with a

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Speaker 5: Republican control House and Senate. We're just not getting any

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Speaker 5: real signals from the Republicans that matter, meaning the ones

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Speaker 5: that voted against the bill yesterday.

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Speaker 4: But a shutdown is not a way to.

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Speaker 5: Start an administration, no matter what Donald Trump thinks. It's disruptive,

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Speaker 5: and he's got very high approval ratings. Now I'm not

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Speaker 5: sure those are going to go higher by inconveniencing a

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Speaker 5: lot of people over the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: Wendy is, do some people in Washington, on either side

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Speaker 3: or both sides of the auduld that they view President

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Speaker 3: elect Trump is maybe even a lame duck president. I

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Speaker 3: don't really need to bend over backwards for this guy

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Speaker 3: because he's only here for four years.

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Speaker 5: Well, certainly, if you're a senator that was elected in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four or even twenty twenty two, you're thinking

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Speaker 5: you're probably going to outlast Trump. But then again, lots

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Speaker 5: of people thought Trump might not run again, get the

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Speaker 5: nomination and win again. I just don't think you can

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Speaker 5: underestimate Donald Trump's political power. But you have an economy

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Speaker 5: that seems to be coming along in terms of growth,

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Speaker 5: and the employment numbers are sort of okay, you know,

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Speaker 5: not disastrous or anything, but inflation is really sticky.

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Speaker 4: And the question is if there isn't a real change in.

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Speaker 5: People's perception of the economy by the summer, I think

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Speaker 5: a lot of Trump's clout could diminish, even among his

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Speaker 5: own base, and.

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Speaker 4: Then you're looking at the next electoral cycle.

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Speaker 5: So that is where separation of powers is really crucial here.

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Speaker 5: It creates different incentives and we're seeing those incentives play.

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Speaker 4: Out right now.

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Speaker 6: When you am curious, do you know the intricacies of

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Speaker 6: what the potential financial implications could be for non essential

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Speaker 6: government workers? Do they get paid retroactively or do they

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Speaker 6: just go without pay?

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Speaker 5: Typically, Congress insists on passing a separate bill to authorize

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Speaker 5: retroactive pay for federal employees that have been furloughed or

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Speaker 5: not paid during a shutdown, So you know, it varies

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Speaker 5: depending on the shutdown, depending on the Congress. You can

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Speaker 5: see where most people would want to see people paid

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Speaker 5: for work that they do, but if you're not working,

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Speaker 5: then there could be an argument, well, you weren't working,

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Speaker 5: so this is a bloat of the federal government, and

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Speaker 5: we're not paying you for work that you didn't do.

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Speaker 5: You know, the problem with the Republican Party is that

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Speaker 5: the federal government civilian force is large and diverse and

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Speaker 5: spread out all across the country. So in every congressional

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Speaker 5: district there will be federal employees or people associated with

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Speaker 5: the federal government that will lose income because of a shutdown,

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Speaker 5: and those congress people are going.

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Speaker 4: To hear from those employees.

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Speaker 5: So this becomes very sticky if they don't agree to

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Speaker 5: retroactively reimburse these employees.

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Speaker 4: But remember the reason that Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: Quote unquote caved in twenty eighteen and reopened the government

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Speaker 5: was that the FAA and air traffic controllers and sort

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Speaker 5: of our TSA employees, all of that became very difficult

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Speaker 5: for people who weren't.

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Speaker 4: Getting paid and decided not to show up for work.

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Speaker 5: And that clog in the economy is what pushed Trump

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Speaker 5: to the table, and so that's why it's curious that

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Speaker 5: he'd want to start an administration with another clog in

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Speaker 5: the economy.

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Speaker 3: All Right, Wendy, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: Wendy Shulis, she's a professor at Brown University and she

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Speaker 3: is the intermim director of the Watson Institute. Joining us

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Speaker 3: from Providence O Rhode Island versus that zoom thing. So again,

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Speaker 3: I guess the initial deadline is going to be midnight tonight, right,

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Speaker 3: so we'll wake up tomorrow and the government will need to.

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Speaker 6: Be open or not right obviously, like you exactly.

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Speaker 2: weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android

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Speaker 3: Normal Linda sitting in for Alex Steel here today on

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Speaker 3: Paul Suni where you are streaming live on YouTube. Ahead

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Speaker 3: over to YouTube dot com and search Bloomberg Podcast. Also

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Speaker 3: doing this whole live thing from the Bloomberg Interactive Broker

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Speaker 3: studio here in New York City. The government shutdown is

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Speaker 3: a thing, and we kind of kind of getting used

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Speaker 3: to it. I guess it seems to happen at least

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Speaker 3: once a year these days. Let's put this whole thing

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Speaker 3: in perspective and how the next several days might unfurlier.

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Speaker 3: Christopher smart joint is he's a managing partner at our

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Speaker 3: Growth Group, and he's a former Special Assistant to the

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Speaker 3: President for International Economics. Joining us from Boston via that

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Speaker 3: zoom thing. Hey, Chris, thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 3: I guess again, we've all in this market become I guess,

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Speaker 3: kind of used to these threats of government shutdowns. What's

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Speaker 3: a little bit different this time is we have a

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Speaker 3: couple of civilians that are really weighing in and almost

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Speaker 3: driving part of the conversation. That is President elect Trump

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Speaker 3: and Elon Musk really involved here. What do you make

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Speaker 3: of that whole dynamic, because that seems a little bit unique.

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Speaker 7: It seems very unique. I'm not sure we're supposed add

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Speaker 7: modify us to unique, but it is a very different

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Speaker 7: rhythm from the traditional government shutdown background music that many

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Speaker 7: investors are used to at this time of year. Along

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Speaker 7: with the Salvation Army bell ringers and anybody singing carols

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Speaker 7: at your door. There is always the drama of when

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Speaker 7: Congress will go home, will there be a budget or

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Speaker 7: will there be a continuing resolution? And what services married

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Speaker 7: and I may not get shut down for a few days,

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Speaker 7: as you say, the difference, one big difference this time

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Speaker 7: is we have a president elect who's not really president,

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Speaker 7: scuttling what had been agreed by all sides earlier this

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Speaker 7: week we have, as you say, as civilians, somebody who's

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Speaker 7: not even headed for a government role, an official government

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Speaker 7: role at least, who's also sort of driving the dynamics

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Speaker 7: on social media that we haven't really seen anywhere.

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Speaker 2: In the past.

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Speaker 7: And then I guess to me the third thing, as

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Speaker 7: from the market's perspective, there's one thing that the markets

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Speaker 7: always hate, which is the debt limit debate that comes

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Speaker 7: up from time to time and the threat of the

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Speaker 7: United States defaulting here the fact that President like Trump

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Speaker 7: has sort of introduced this is one of his asks

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Speaker 7: in the continuing Resolution, at least that's what it's been

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Speaker 7: in the last twenty four hours. We'll see how that evolved.

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Speaker 7: But markets would love to see this thing go away.

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Speaker 7: The problem is getting the math to work on that

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Speaker 7: particular part of an already complicated bill becomes very, very difficult.

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Speaker 6: It feels like in markets we have so many things

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Speaker 6: to worry about right now. Honestly, my eyes are on

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Speaker 6: so many different things right now, especially with this being

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Speaker 6: a FED week. But of course as a concern, as

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Speaker 6: we're thinking about the uncertainty that could be upcoming in

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Speaker 6: this situation, what is the impact on markets here? Historically

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Speaker 6: do we really care about a government shut down in

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Speaker 6: terms of the near term, I.

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Speaker 7: Think probably less so this time around. First of all,

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Speaker 7: the sell off that we've seen this week was squarely

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Speaker 7: linked to the fed's statements and more hawkish music coming

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Speaker 7: from that part of Washington. If we were sort of

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Speaker 7: really on the verge of a recession and you worried

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Speaker 7: that government spending would be cut off and government activity

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Speaker 7: would tip the balance into a recession, then I think

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Speaker 7: markets will be paying much more, much closer attention to

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Speaker 7: what's going on right now. But you have an economy

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Speaker 7: that is on the margin running a little bit hotter

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Speaker 7: than the FED would like, and you know, from a

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Speaker 7: macroeconomic perspective, a little bit of cooling, even if it

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Speaker 7: comes from a shutdown, is probably not a bad thing overall. Obviously,

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Speaker 7: from a governance perspective, from a predictability perspective, from a

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Speaker 7: political perspective, it's it's never a good thing when you

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Speaker 7: have it this kind of dynamic in the in the background.

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Speaker 7: And I think the thing around these government shut off

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Speaker 7: shutdown excuse me, is that once they happen, it's never

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Speaker 7: clearer if it's going to be a quick one or

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Speaker 7: a long one, and once ide start digging in, this

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Speaker 7: could go on well into the into the new year.

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Speaker 3: So again, we were just talking with one of our analysts,

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Intelligence, who covers the Washington policy, and he had

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Speaker 3: raised his risk of a shutdown or os of a

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Speaker 3: shutdown to forty percent. That's up from I think twenty

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Speaker 3: or thirty percent just a day or two ago. My senses,

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Speaker 3: you feel like it's maybe even higher than that.

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Speaker 6: Here.

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Speaker 3: What are the what's the politics of a shutdown here?

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Speaker 3: How would you view the politics of a shutdown that

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Speaker 3: might go through the holidays.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not.

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Speaker 7: Sure anybody benefits from a shutdown, but the question is

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Speaker 7: always can you blame the other person more? And obviously

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Speaker 7: I think at this stage it looks like this has

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Speaker 7: been a shutdown that's been triggered by Elon Musk and

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Speaker 7: Donald Trump scuppering this late deal that the Republicans Democrats

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Speaker 7: had agreed to. Having said that President Trump just won

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Speaker 7: a big election, it's very easy for him to write

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Speaker 7: the narrative that this is Washington insider backroom dealing that

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Speaker 7: he is fighting against and has promised to eliminate in Washington.

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Speaker 7: So I'm not sure I think both sides feel like

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Speaker 7: they've got the upper hand here, which should think, as

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Speaker 7: you say, leads me to believe that the odds are

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Speaker 7: maybe higher than forty percent. Although you know, these things

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Speaker 7: tend to change very quickly from one hour to the next.

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Speaker 7: It just doesn't seem to me that anybody's got a

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Speaker 7: real reason to compromise at this stage. The one, you know,

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Speaker 7: minor deadline that's coming up is actually the president's inauguration.

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Speaker 7: Does he want to be sworn into office with the

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Speaker 7: government still shut down? But between now and then, I'm

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Speaker 7: not sure what's going to force one side or the

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Speaker 7: other to come to the table.

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Speaker 6: When we're thinking about the market, what sectors in particular

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Speaker 6: could be potentially exposed to the impact of a government

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Speaker 6: shut down.

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Speaker 7: Again, if it's shutting things down for a week or

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Speaker 7: a month, even two months, the macroeconomic impact is fairly

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Speaker 7: fairly limited. Obviously, you can see government contracts that don't

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Speaker 7: get written, you know, maybe defense contracts that don't get

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Speaker 7: done this year or get pushed into next year. You

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Speaker 7: get a lot of uncertainty. You know that maybe some

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Speaker 7: businesses aren't planning their investments the way they would like

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Speaker 7: to given the uncertainty around government spending. But the real

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Speaker 7: questions are not so much around the shutdown itself, as

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Speaker 7: I think everybody is looking to both the tax debate

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Speaker 7: that's going to come into line very quickly and what

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Speaker 7: sort of differences they can expect in terms of corporate

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Speaker 7: taxes and potential rollbacks of President Biden's subsidies to the automotive,

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Speaker 7: to the electric vehicle, to the clean energy industry. And

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Speaker 7: then the other piece of that I think that he's

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Speaker 7: driving things are the terraff wars that are building up.

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Speaker 3: Christopher Smart, thank you so much for joining us. Chris Smart,

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Speaker 3: he's a managing partner in a growth group, former Special

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Speaker 3: Assistant to the President for International economics, just giving us

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Speaker 3: his thoughts here on the potential shutdown. I think as

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Speaker 3: Chris was just mentioning, he kind of feels like this

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Speaker 3: is somebody that may come to fruition and so have

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Speaker 3: to see will pay attention. That's starting midnight tonight.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 2: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple car Playing and

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Speaker 3: Charlie Pellet, I'm trying to figure out what the heck

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Speaker 3: going on in this market, what's driving the higher here?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm seeing a couple of things, maybe, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at the top go on the Bloomberg terminal,

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Speaker 3: Fed's favorite inflation gauge cools to the slowest pace since May.

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Speaker 3: So maybe this economic data people is really starting to

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Speaker 3: digest it and say, all right, maybe this inflation thing

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Speaker 3: is is not as concerning as maybe we thought. That

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Speaker 3: might give the FED some room on the rates here,

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Speaker 3: you know. And I think the question is maybe the

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Speaker 3: reaction to the Fed's meeting on Wednesday again, SMP off

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Speaker 3: two and a half percent last top of three and

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Speaker 3: a half percent. Maybe that's a little bit of an overreaction.

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Speaker 6: We're seeing real estate the best performing sector today and

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Speaker 6: then information technology is the second best.

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Speaker 3: Real estate and that's my career.

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Speaker 2: Real estate.

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Speaker 3: All right, very good. We appreciate that Sandy Berger joins us.

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Speaker 3: She's the chief client officer. I'm sure she's got some

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Speaker 3: thoughts here. The firm's experient and she joins us via zoom. Sandy,

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Speaker 3: what do you make of the last I don't know,

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Speaker 3: four five, six days in this marketplace. We've got geopolitics,

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Speaker 3: we've got domestic politics with the government shutdown, We've got

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Speaker 3: federal reserve. Boy, there's a lot of cross currents for

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Speaker 3: investors to navigate.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's been an exciting week, and every day there

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Speaker 1: is a new twist. In turn. We've been telling our clients,

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Speaker 1: who are corporate executives, family business owners and entrepreneurs to

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Speaker 1: be ready for anything and to be thoughtfully and thoughtfully

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Speaker 1: diversified in their portfolios. That's what we've been doing for them.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of the economy right now, things are

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Speaker 1: looking pretty good in our We have a strong economy,

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Speaker 1: strong corporate earnings. There are some wild cards on out

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Speaker 1: there that could change things, and I think we got

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Speaker 1: a taste of some of those wild cards this week,

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Speaker 1: especially in terms of the Fed's decision regarding interest rates

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Speaker 1: and slowing down the pace. There so a lot of

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Speaker 1: volatility within the week. We wouldn't be surprised if volatility

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Speaker 1: continued into twenty twenty five. But at this point on

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Speaker 1: our base case scenario, we're not expecting any major changes.

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Speaker 1: We think things look good out there.

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Speaker 6: Sandy, you mentioned wild cards. There's so much volatility. Where

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Speaker 6: are you guys staying, what do you like right now?

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Speaker 6: And where are you avoiding?

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Speaker 1: So within our portfolios, as I was mentioning, we really

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Speaker 1: truly believe that now more than ever, diversification is important,

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Speaker 1: and we're pretty well balanced between bonds and equities, though

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Speaker 1: tilting toward equities. Within the equity markets, we do like

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Speaker 1: the US market, particularly large cap value. It really has

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Speaker 1: not been the place to be for a long time.

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Speaker 1: On balance, we think that there's some real opportunity there.

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Speaker 1: We also like small caps in the United States, also

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Speaker 1: on the value side, and really looking at the higher

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Speaker 1: quality small company so companies that have strong balance sheets,

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Speaker 1: that have great business models, that are going to do

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Speaker 1: well during good economic times and bad. And then we

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Speaker 1: do have some of our allocation overseas. We're particularly more

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Speaker 1: bullish on Europe at this point and also Japan.

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Speaker 6: When we look at the fact that we've hit so

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Speaker 6: many record highs for the S and P five hundred

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Speaker 6: in the market more broadly this year more than fifty times.

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Speaker 6: Is there any discussion around whether or not market valuations

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Speaker 6: have been too high?

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Speaker 1: In our estimation, the US large cap growth area is

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Speaker 1: running pretty hot. Still, we think valuations are high there.

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Speaker 1: You look at the SMP five hundred earnings currently pees

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Speaker 1: at twenty two, an average is more like sixteen. So

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Speaker 1: you could make some arguments that some stocks have gotten

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Speaker 1: ahead of themselves. That's why we are tilting toward value

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Speaker 1: in some of the areas of the market that haven't

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Speaker 1: gotten as much play. But you know, it all depends

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Speaker 1: upon what happens in the economy in how corporate ar

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Speaker 1: needs continue in the period ahead. And again, without some

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Speaker 1: of these wild cards coming into tuition I talked about inflation,

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Speaker 1: interest rates would be another wild card, and of course

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Speaker 1: we have deficits and tariffs out there as well. We

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Speaker 1: could see sustained levels in the markets if those wild

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Speaker 1: cards don't show their ugly faces and create some surprises

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Speaker 1: and sandy.

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Speaker 3: You know, since the election, at least from my perspective,

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Speaker 3: has been a palpable sense of optimism, economic optimism, optimism

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Speaker 3: about the markets, optimism about taking risk. Do you get

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Speaker 3: that when you talk to your clients.

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Speaker 1: So, our clients are mostly based in the United States,

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Speaker 1: we have some that are located overseas, and they represent

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Speaker 1: all aspects of the political spectrum. And so what I've

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Speaker 1: noticed it's clients who have strong political views on one

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Speaker 1: side of the spectrum, where the other that are either

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Speaker 1: the most bullish around economy or the most concerned. So

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Speaker 1: we're hearing a lot of different things from our clients,

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Speaker 1: and our jobs really is to meet them where they are,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind what they're trying to achieve with their

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Speaker 1: long term financial plans and what they're really focused on,

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Speaker 1: and making sure that we're helping them make decisions about

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Speaker 1: their portfolios that are going to be invested in service

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Speaker 1: of what they're trying to achieve, and keeping them keeping

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Speaker 1: a check on any strong feelings one way or the

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Speaker 1: other between bolishness or bearishness. We hear it all, Paul Sandy.

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Speaker 6: One of the latest wildcards, of course, that we're monitoring

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Speaker 6: and the rest of the market is monitoring today is

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Speaker 6: the potential government shutdown. How have markets historically responded to

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Speaker 6: government shutdowns and what are you all thinking about what

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Speaker 6: we're seeing today in about thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: Or less, Nora, the shutdowns tend to be a non

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Speaker 1: market event, in a non economic event, so we've been

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Speaker 1: telling clients who've been concerned not to worry about it.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing about this potential shutdown is that it

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Speaker 1: really is an early test, perhaps of the cohesiveness of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. So if we were to see a

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Speaker 1: prolonged shutdown, and that's not necessarily what we're expecting, but

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Speaker 1: if we saw one, that could put into question some

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party's ability to rally around other policies

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Speaker 1: that people are expecting to come into fruition, like tax

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Speaker 1: reform later next year.

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Speaker 3: Sandy, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thanks for

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Speaker 3: your time, Sandy Berger, Chief Client Officer, Experient giving us

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Speaker 3: her thoughts on the markets.

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Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast, available on apples, Spotify,

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