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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Stetts Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is CEO and President of Blave Nation,

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Speaker 1: one and only, Michael Rapino. Michael, good to have you

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. You just announced this new effort, Vibe.

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Speaker 1: What exactly is it?

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Speaker 2: Biby is a destination event company. As you know you've

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Speaker 2: probably read over the years, there's more and more of

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Speaker 2: these on location companies where they're kind of taking the

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Speaker 2: current events doing a special package VIP. Maybe it's a

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Speaker 2: destination to see Lionel Richie just in Cabbo for a

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Speaker 2: thousand people. So anyway, you can kind of create above

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Speaker 2: and beyond special experiences around an artist event. So it

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Speaker 2: could be a current event, meaning we could do it

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Speaker 2: at La La Lose and do a jet in a

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Speaker 2: backstage and a VIP package. But most of it is

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Speaker 2: trying to create destination events for artists and fans to

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Speaker 2: have kind of an exceptional VIP experience.

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Speaker 1: So what is already booked for Vibe?

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Speaker 2: Well, we got a few going on. We've got a

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Speaker 2: hotel in can Kun, Mexico, Moon Palace. Luke Bryan the

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Speaker 2: Grateful Dead have done it there where it's a kind

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Speaker 2: of a three thousand limited package for three thousand people,

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Speaker 2: take over the hotel special two days live performance just

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Speaker 2: for those fans merchandise parties. We've got a couple ship

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Speaker 2: ideas that we've been working on, Holy Ship, where you

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Speaker 2: can go on to an Insomniac DC ship for three days.

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Speaker 2: So you've seen some of these before where the artists

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Speaker 2: take over the ship and kind of have that destination idea.

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Speaker 2: So we've got three or four ship projects right now

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Speaker 2: with DC Insomnia, got some Cabo Mexican, Luke Bryan, Grateful

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Speaker 2: Dead Adventures, and now we've got Lallapalooza we launched today,

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Speaker 2: and some of Vegas ideas that I think they'll launch

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Speaker 2: this week around special Formula one concert VIP experiences, So

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Speaker 2: just taking the experience VIP above and beyond what you

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Speaker 2: currently can buy at a typical concert and delivering a

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Speaker 2: higher end experience to the fan.

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Speaker 1: You know, just staying on this. It appears most people

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Speaker 1: don't know, but the most expensive tickets go first on

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Speaker 1: most of these conferences. Is there any limit to what

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Speaker 1: people will pay for a VIP experience?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's all new territory. You were right,

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Speaker 2: the house always sells front to back, so you've never

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Speaker 2: heard me say, you know, I can't sell the front,

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Speaker 2: but the back sold out. So it's always front back.

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Speaker 2: And what you see a lot of artists doing today,

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Speaker 2: even though they get a little bit of press from it,

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Speaker 2: is charge a bit more for the front. So the

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Speaker 2: real theory is you can actually charge a bit less

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Speaker 2: on the back and make sure that last row does

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Speaker 2: sell out. But right now, Bob, we've seen coming out

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Speaker 2: of COVID price resistance is not We haven't seen it

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Speaker 2: anywhere yet. As crazy as some of the secondary stuff

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Speaker 2: you see online where there are two three hundred times

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Speaker 2: what a face value is. Those things are selling out instantly,

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Speaker 2: So we have not seen yet. I don't think the

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Speaker 2: top end of what does a concert VIP platinum experience

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Speaker 2: look like if you want to go see that show.

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Speaker 2: I think this is new. You know, as I say

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Speaker 2: to my team, we've kind of been operating like American

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Speaker 2: airlines for a long time. One price not that much

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Speaker 2: of a variance from top to bottom. Probably a warm

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Speaker 2: beer and a cold hot dog and good luck. But

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Speaker 2: the idea that a concert is a memorable experience and

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Speaker 2: and fans will will pay for an upgraded experience all fans,

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Speaker 2: not just this isn't just for the rich the one

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Speaker 2: or two times a year you'll go to that show.

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Speaker 2: Our fans want a better experience, they want a higher

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Speaker 2: end experience, and they'll pay for it if we can

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Speaker 2: deliver it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Needless to say, ticket Master is a hot topic

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Speaker 1: in the news and Washington DC. You are literally at

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Speaker 1: the epicenter, So let's kind of drill down explain for

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Speaker 1: the average person how ticket fees are established.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it's definitely been the year to start

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Speaker 2: talking about this because it's been As you you point

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Speaker 2: out on your newsletter, you kind of understand the inner work.

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Speaker 2: So if you step back in the simplest context, a

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Speaker 2: venue wherever you are decides who is going to be

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Speaker 2: their ticketing company. Generally that venue and the irony of

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Speaker 2: this idea that we have control generally that venue is

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Speaker 2: a billionaire that is building a billion dollar plus arena

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Speaker 2: or stadium, SOFI stadium here in LA. You name the place,

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Speaker 2: the San Francisco New Arena, So you're the you're you

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Speaker 2: have a sports team generally, and you call us, you

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Speaker 2: call seak Geek, you call Access and say I want

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Speaker 2: an RFP to be who's going to be the exclusive

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Speaker 2: ticketing company for my business?

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Speaker 1: Not not everybody knows what's an RFP is.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna they're gonna call all of us and say,

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Speaker 2: we want you to bid on the rights to be

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Speaker 2: the exclusive ticketing company for our venue. And generally ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of time, here are the terms you're We don't

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Speaker 2: get paid on season tickets. That's a big unknown to

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Speaker 2: the industry. So we do all that one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty five million tickets that are season tickets. Uh, we don't.

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Speaker 2: We don't get paid on as a ticketing company. And

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Speaker 2: you get paid on the single ticket, the the one

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Speaker 2: off ticket for the game or the concert, and the

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Speaker 2: van You then dictates how much of the ticket fee

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Speaker 2: they're going to keep and how much they'll pay you,

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Speaker 2: and how how big the ticket fee will be. And

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Speaker 2: that's kind of the let's let's go a little bit slower, right.

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Speaker 1: They stand out the RFP request request. We are basically bidding, Yes,

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Speaker 1: what would typically be in that bid and what would

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Speaker 1: the varying competitors put in the bid such that then

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Speaker 1: you might choose one one or the other.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a there's a fundamental technology, basic program to it.

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Speaker 2: Can you do these things for my team, my venue.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's multiple teams and and every team. Uh geez,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with the Clippers right now. That's a very

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Speaker 2: technical r f P because Balmer and Microsoft background is

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Speaker 2: very different. Are working with Mark Cuban in in Dallas.

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Speaker 2: So it usually a technical basic basis to the to

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Speaker 2: the to the bid what they want to get done

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Speaker 2: with that. With the ticketing company, they's got to work

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Speaker 2: with this CRM company, it's got to work with their

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Speaker 2: food and beverage, it's got to work with their access,

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Speaker 2: it's got to work with their charity. So they kind

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Speaker 2: of a long technical spec on can your ticket company

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Speaker 2: deliver all of these different needs we have amongst our businesses.

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Speaker 2: That's the that's probably the fifty percent of it. Then

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Speaker 2: the next part is going to be how are you

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Speaker 2: going to how are you going to market and sell

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Speaker 2: incremental tickets for us? How are you going to help

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Speaker 2: us deliver our business? And again that's going to vary, Bob,

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Speaker 2: as you know, if you're the hot team that sells

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Speaker 2: out in a minute, that's different. If you're the Phoenix

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Speaker 2: hockey team, you're looking for the best marketing partner you

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Speaker 2: can to help you sell tickets. So again it'll vary

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Speaker 2: on how much the marketing and the and the marketplace

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Speaker 2: you have matters to the team. And then let's call

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Speaker 2: the final piece the financial. How much how low will

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Speaker 2: you deliver the business for? Will you give us an

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Speaker 2: advance against that a bonus? And is it three five years?

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Speaker 2: They'll they'll usually dictate those kind of terms. So it's technical, marketing, marketplace,

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Speaker 2: and then financial.

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Speaker 1: Okay, most venues, if not all, do want an advance,

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Speaker 1: isn't that correct?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, most of them are going to ask for some

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Speaker 2: version of an advance or a bonus based on getting

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Speaker 2: the contract.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And an advance would be recoupable and a bonus

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Speaker 1: would not be. Yes, okay. So going back to where

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Speaker 1: we were earlier, the venue is telling you how much

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Speaker 1: the fee is going to be. Yes, yeah, the venue

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Speaker 1: is going to define. You know, it's kind of evolved

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Speaker 1: over the last five ten years. It used to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, when Fred was on your call. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was easy in Fred's days. They would just say,

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Speaker 1: you know, add another dollar to the service fee and

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Speaker 1: we'll split it fifty to fifty. Today it's kind of

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Speaker 1: working backwards, where the venue says, I'll pay you three

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Speaker 1: four dollars a ticket, and then we're going to keep

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Speaker 1: all the upside and we're going to charge forty six

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Speaker 1: thirty seven whatever the service fee is. So it's still evolving,

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Speaker 1: but generally the net number is determined by the venue

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Speaker 1: because the venue has a net takeaway that they want

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Speaker 1: to take home from the ticketing business, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: percentage or whether it's a fee. Okay, and they established

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Speaker 1: it themselves and ticket Master has no negotiation with that

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Speaker 1: to raise it or lower it.

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Speaker 2: No, and again I'm you know, we can. We can

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Speaker 2: come to the part where I am the venue Live Nation,

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Speaker 2: so I can I can walk in that shoe later.

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Speaker 2: But no, it is a you know, although it doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem like it on Twitter at times, it's a competitive process.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you have you know, we're just we just

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Speaker 2: lost the stadium in Washington. The seat geek. So what

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Speaker 2: they ask for someone will pay, whether it's US AEG

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Speaker 2: access to stub Hub seat geek. So if they want

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Speaker 2: to pay someone two dollars and fifty cents a ticket,

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Speaker 2: I can go back and say no, I want four

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Speaker 2: and I want the service fee to be lower, but

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Speaker 2: they'll go someone else will be standing next door to

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Speaker 2: me that says we'll do it for two fifty and

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Speaker 2: charge thirty six bucks.

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Speaker 1: So okay, if I own an arena in a major market,

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Speaker 1: generally speaking, what is the advance in dollars?

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Speaker 2: You know, on a it's the team part that's important

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Speaker 2: that drives most of the economics. So could be a

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Speaker 2: multi million dollar advance, anywhere from zero to ten million dollars,

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Speaker 2: could be over for longer term contract.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so they're telling you what the fee is going

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Speaker 1: to be. But if someone is buying, let's focus on

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Speaker 1: concert tickets, where most of the controversy is the fee

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Speaker 1: is not the same for every ticket. Usually more expensive

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Speaker 1: tickets have a higher fee. Can explain that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think historically it's been a percentage. If you

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Speaker 2: look at Macro, the ticket percentage is somewhere in the

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Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five percent on average, So you're right.

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Speaker 2: If it's a ten dollars ticket, it's two fifty. If

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Speaker 2: it's a two hundred dollars ticket, it's twenty percent of that.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it can scale from twenty to maybe thirty thirty

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Speaker 2: percent on the top end. But it's a percentage scaling

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Speaker 2: that's set out from the beginning, and it goes up

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Speaker 2: as the ticket price goes up.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just say that you have round numbers

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Speaker 1: and this would be extremely low. The fee is out

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Speaker 1: of that ten dollars they are going to pay ticket

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Speaker 1: Master a certain number which is negotiated in advance. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and okay, so I buy a ticket.

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Speaker 2: Which, by the way, because republic we say it loud,

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Speaker 2: we would typically get two of that ten dollars. They

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Speaker 2: would get eight, right, which is the real unknown. Right,

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Speaker 2: that's where the you know you you would assume because

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Speaker 2: we have to take the punch that says it's the

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Speaker 2: ticket Master service fee, that we get more of it.

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Speaker 2: And that's the biggest kind of unknown to date.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when I buy a ticket, there are multiple fees.

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Speaker 1: There is you know, the convenience fee and other fees.

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Speaker 1: So typically under this paradigm where you have given it

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Speaker 1: advance to an arena, what would be all the fees

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Speaker 1: in the ticket as a percentage?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, when you have negotiated with a building. We're using

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Speaker 1: the example of ten dollars, which is low, you get

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Speaker 1: two dollars. Let's say but when the customer goes to

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Speaker 1: buy the ticket, there are more fees than ten dollars.

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Speaker 1: There are additional fees.

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Speaker 2: What are those could depend You could have a facility

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Speaker 2: fee which the venue would charge. That would be all

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Speaker 2: of their fee. So venues have a facility fee. Credit

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Speaker 2: card fee is separate. That's a small percentage that is

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Speaker 2: exactly what it is. It goes to the credit card company,

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Speaker 2: and it might there might be or it might be

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Speaker 2: dressed in a ordering fee which covers the ordering fee,

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Speaker 2: which would be the credit card fee within that that

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Speaker 2: might be three four percent as an ordering fee where

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Speaker 2: covers a credit card fee, and the venue and ticket

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Speaker 2: master would split that on that same kind of percentage.

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Speaker 2: So facility fee, ordering fee, service fee would be your

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Speaker 2: three typical fees.

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Speaker 1: And since the building is really at the heart of this,

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Speaker 1: why would there be a facility fee in addition?

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Speaker 2: I think that's just another way the venues have looked

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Speaker 2: to say, how can I get some revenue per ticket?

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Speaker 2: And we could. We're going to come later to whether

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Speaker 2: this is just or not, but I'm so now we'll

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Speaker 2: just talk to the technical part. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: a revenue stream that the venues put in place years

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Speaker 2: ago to gather revenue per ticket.

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Speaker 1: And that is determined in advance. And is that a

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Speaker 1: percentage number?

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Speaker 2: Now that's the venue add on.

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Speaker 1: That would be with the venue of charge, and that

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Speaker 1: would be across all events sports, concerts, rodio.

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Speaker 2: Generally. Yes, you know, again there's always going to be

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Speaker 2: someone going to tweet exceptions to the rules to all

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Speaker 2: of this, but yes, in generality, generally you would have

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Speaker 2: a facility fee on all your events. If you were

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Speaker 2: charging facility fees.

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Speaker 1: Okay, using this ten dollars, ticket master gets two dollars.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't the promoter also share in the fees?

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Speaker 2: No? Now you know this is like pulling one block

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Speaker 2: of jingle right, where does one? Where? Does? Where? Does

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Speaker 2: one get paid? Typically the venue is paying the promoter,

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Speaker 2: so you can in theory say did he pay the venue?

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Speaker 2: Did he pay the promoter out of his eight dollars,

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Speaker 2: or did he pay it out of his facility fee,

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Speaker 2: or did he pay it out of his parking fee?

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Speaker 2: But generally a venue has to incentivize the promoter to

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Speaker 2: bring shows, so there would be a promoter fee at

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Speaker 2: some sometimes that the venue would pay that would come

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Speaker 2: out of some version of their of their fees or

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Speaker 2: their revenue line, but we don't see it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're doing a settlement at the end of the night,

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Speaker 2: the promoter doesn't have a cut of the fees. That's

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Speaker 2: that goes to the venue direct, and then whatever rent

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Speaker 2: and venue deal you have with the venue is separate.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but the rent in the there's rent, right, But

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Speaker 1: you're also saying there's another line item where essentially the

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Speaker 1: building is paying you to have your concert in that building.

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Speaker 2: They're called rebates. You've probably heard of them over time.

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Speaker 2: You know. The way the venue would work is if

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Speaker 2: you have a big arena and probably three arenas maybe

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Speaker 2: in town, it's competitive. So you would come to me,

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Speaker 2: you'd come to aeg, you would come to any promoter,

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Speaker 2: and you would try to incentivize them and say, listen,

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Speaker 2: if you could bring ten shows a year, we'll pay

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Speaker 2: you five dollars a ticket. If you could bring twenty

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Speaker 2: shows and thirty shows. So they're going to try to

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Speaker 2: provide an incentive or rebate to bring scale and more

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Speaker 2: shows to their venue if you can as an added incentive.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's just use the concert example. Ticket Master

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Speaker 1: revenue stream other than the percentage other than a couple

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Speaker 1: of dollars on the then you feed, are there any

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Speaker 1: other income streams for ticket Master?

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Speaker 2: No, that's the complete business model is a percentage of

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Speaker 2: the fees.

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Speaker 1: Okay, needless to say what you have saying, these are

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Speaker 1: costs that are going to be built in. The costs

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Speaker 1: are never going to go away. Just for some people, understand,

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Speaker 1: even though you and we have discussed this, the position

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Speaker 1: of ticket Master Live Nation is you're all for an

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Speaker 1: all in ticket price.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that if you were a you know,

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Speaker 2: whether you're a small club owner or a Live Nation

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Speaker 2: you have a venue or these arenas that are spending

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Speaker 2: a billion dollars on their venues. The reality is the

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Speaker 2: artist has done a great job over the last ten

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Speaker 2: years or taking more of the door as you know,

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Speaker 2: so there's not any dollars left on the gross ticket.

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Speaker 2: The ticket goes to the artist. So as that kind

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Speaker 2: of has expanded. In order to pay for the venue,

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Speaker 2: to pay for the staff, to pay for your costs,

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Speaker 2: the service fees have become the revenue line. But you're right,

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Speaker 2: if you you couldn't take the service fee away and

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Speaker 2: then stay to the venue. Let's put the show on

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Speaker 2: the venue would say, well, who's paying all the costs?

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Speaker 2: I got to get paid, so they could crank up

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Speaker 2: the rent and stay to the artist. Hey, now the

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Speaker 2: rent's going to be a lot more money. And then

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Speaker 2: then the artist is going to say, okay, they're not

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Speaker 2: to charge higher ticket prices, so you wouldn't net it.

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Speaker 2: The same result is there is I think I think

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Speaker 2: Garstad at best on stage, there's one pizza to get

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Speaker 2: the show done. It isn't forty eight dollars, it's seventy six.

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Speaker 2: So the quicker we decide that it's a seventy six

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Speaker 2: dollars experience, the better will be as an industry than

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Speaker 2: what we're doing today. And you know, I use example

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Speaker 2: of Amazon. When I buy that hammer at Amazon, I

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Speaker 2: think it's a great deal. Now if I if they

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Speaker 2: said to me the hammer's five dollars, but the Amazon

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Speaker 2: service fee is four, I would think that's horrible. But

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Speaker 2: you know Amazon, Apple charge thirty to fifty percent distribution fees,

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Speaker 2: So call this fees the distribution fee the margin. The

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Speaker 2: challenge in our industry is we have we have kept

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Speaker 2: the margin the distribution cost, if you want to call it,

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Speaker 2: outside of the price generally in industries, when you buy

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Speaker 2: something at Walmart or Target, it's all built in the north.

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Speaker 2: Stroms gets paid that the Calvin client gets paid, the

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Speaker 2: distribution costs are paid, and it's ninety nine dollars to

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Speaker 2: buy the jenes our business for many reasons, it's stayed outside. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: we are, we as an industry think the We don't

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Speaker 2: think they're junk fees. We don't think there's service fees

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Speaker 2: that are just beautiful add ons to make a ton

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Speaker 2: of money. We're a very low margin company, so we

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Speaker 2: we we certainly are. Our numbers are public and financial

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Speaker 2: show you that we're not. We're not making a ton

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Speaker 2: of money on service fees other than the what you

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Speaker 2: need to pay for staff costs, structure and then have

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Speaker 2: a return on your capital.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just to get this nailed down, your position is

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Speaker 1: you would go to an all in ticket price. You're

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Speaker 1: pro that position.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're we're happy pro Jam announced it today on

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Speaker 2: their tour. We're we're talking to others. We would we

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Speaker 2: would tomorrow go all in pricing. We need we would

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Speaker 2: love the industry to do it. I mean New York

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Speaker 2: went to all in pricing. We're the only person doing

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Speaker 2: all in pricing right now, no one's monitoring it. You

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Speaker 2: go go to New York right now and try to

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Speaker 2: buy a ticket at subhub or seek geek, No one's

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Speaker 2: No one's following the all in pricing mandate law that's

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Speaker 2: been put in place there. Because we know, if you

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Speaker 2: one guy says it's seventy six dollars and one person

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Speaker 2: said it's forty two, but really seventy six, check out,

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Speaker 2: you're going to win on Google every day of the

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Speaker 2: week on the forty two dollars ticket. So to be

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Speaker 2: to be a level playing field for everybody, you would

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Speaker 2: want everyone to have to show the right price upfront.

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Speaker 2: So yes, we think that. We think showing the fan

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Speaker 2: the real price to go to the show upfront is

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Speaker 2: better for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what is impeding this process? Why can't it happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, I think his StubHub tried

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Speaker 2: it a few years ago, five years ago, six years ago,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they ended up pulling out of it

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Speaker 2: and inciting that their business went down fifteen to twenty percent.

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Speaker 2: I think that's scared most people. You looked at that

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Speaker 2: and went, geez, if I'm going to be the only

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Speaker 2: solo player moving. That's a big hit. So I think

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Speaker 2: the date we all have probably been scared of. Do

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Speaker 2: I want to absorb any of the leakage in that

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Speaker 2: mission because you're going to do it on your own.

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Speaker 2: The artists aren't going to give you a break. Then

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Speaker 2: no one's going to give you a break that the

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Speaker 2: venue's not going to say that's too bad. Will help

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Speaker 2: you out here? If you're going to go, you're going

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Speaker 2: to go. I think we've been scared to date, and

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Speaker 2: then obviously COVID came. We all just had to get

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Speaker 2: ourselves back together and back on the horse. So I

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Speaker 2: think to date it's been the fear of the unknown.

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Speaker 2: Will it hurt your sales? Will the agent artists ask

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Speaker 2: for more money because they now say it's all one?

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Speaker 2: Is it better to keep it separate? I think the

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Speaker 2: sports teams have always done it separate for different reasons too,

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Speaker 2: So I think to date there's been a fear of

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Speaker 2: the unknown if you went all in. I think at

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Speaker 2: this point though, we have to start acting more like

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Speaker 2: the leader and standing stronger and taking some of the

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Speaker 2: short term pain for the longer term win.

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Speaker 1: Well forgetting the resale market, which is where stub Hubbs

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Speaker 1: experience was and still is. You have all these acts

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Speaker 1: using round numbers, once again saying I said the price

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Speaker 1: was fifty dollars, but the checkout price was eighty dollars,

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Speaker 1: and that's terrible. So to what degree do the artists

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Speaker 1: not want all inke at pricing.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's split. I mean, as

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Speaker 2: you know, there's no one artist. There's you know, some

401
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Speaker 2: want the money and and some want twenty dollars tickets.

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Speaker 2: And there's a spectrum, right, there's no there's no I

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Speaker 2: wish I always joke I wish I saw Adam Silver yesterday.

404
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Speaker 2: I wish I had a I wish I was a

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Speaker 2: commissioner and can mandate a few a few few things

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Speaker 2: here and there. But we're dealing with fifteen hundred different

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Speaker 2: managers and artists a year, and they all have different

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Speaker 2: agendas and different parts of their life cycle. And and

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Speaker 2: so you're right, there are going to be some artists

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Speaker 2: that say, no, screw you. I'm not going to say

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Speaker 2: it's an eighty dollars ticket, it's fifty. Some artists like

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Speaker 2: Pear Jam, we're gonna say, I get it, let's let's

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Speaker 2: let's make it fair and do what's right. So you're right,

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Speaker 2: it hasn't been something to date. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: an industry we talk about is Live. It's very very unorganized.

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Speaker 2: As you know. The recording side is a bit more organized.

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Speaker 2: They've got you know, they got lobbyists, they've got kind

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Speaker 2: of organized, the Grammy's, the Riria. There's really no there's

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Speaker 2: no organization and Live we always joke the only actual

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Speaker 2: organization is the Ticket Broker Association. We're a really good lobbyists,

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Speaker 2: but there is not even a lobbyist group for us

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Speaker 2: as an industry, so we don't do well as an

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Speaker 2: industry making smart moves holistically. You're right. So I think

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Speaker 2: we're going to have to just move forward Live with

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Speaker 2: some short term pain of some artists or others, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's right for the fan and the experience overall. Now, Bob,

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Speaker 2: I would say, I don't want to you know, let's

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Speaker 2: go to the second part. I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: that there aren't times when the service fee is too

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Speaker 2: high and that doesn't have to be addressed too. This

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Speaker 2: isn't just jam all the service fees in. Put it

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Speaker 2: in one price so we can hide it there are

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Speaker 2: as you saw with the Cure. I think we do

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Speaker 2: have to look at some of our businesses on the

435
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: lower end ticket prices, the clubs, theater. I do think

436
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 2: as an industry we probably do have to absorb a

437
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 2: bit better and think a little smarter at what is

438
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: the add on fee because I think I think although

439
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 2: it's justified, I don't think it's justified probably at every

440
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 2: ticket price point. So we probably as an industry need

441
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 2: to be smarter there.

442
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: Okay, let's be very specific since you brought it up,

443
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: what exactly happened with the cure because ten dollars were

444
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: given back, which is a first, right, you.

445
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: Know, it was again when you you know, the system

446
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: isn't really built for artists like Robert the cure, right,

447
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: We're usually do a running fast put the ticket on sale,

448
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: and we kind of are proud of the ticketmaster's side.

449
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: We did a ton of work with Robert making sure

450
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: it was a non transferable, that it would be then

451
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: face valued exchange, and we kind of got verified and

452
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: doing all we could to put all the roadblocks to

453
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: help him deliver his ticket price to the fan. But

454
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: he's so active on Twitter, as you know, there was

455
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: a screenshot of a venue which wasn't even a Live

456
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: Nation venue. It was an amphitheater that we don't own

457
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 2: that showed a the ticket service fee of the twenty

458
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 2: on the twenty. Which it doesn't matter whether we justify

459
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: that the service fee is a good idea or not.

460
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: We have an industry where we got to build some

461
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: credibility back. So Robert reached out to me. We talked

462
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: about it. I couldn't defend that in any version of life,

463
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: we were going to add a twenty dollars service fee

464
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: to a twenty dollars ticket. So I made the decision

465
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: that we would go in, spend some money and help

466
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: on this case, give back the ten dollars, and get

467
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: it to a reasonable place for those fans.

468
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: Okay, let's be very specific where did the ten dollars

469
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: come from? Because using the earlier paradigm on the fees,

470
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the venue takes most of the money.

471
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: Right, we went to the venues and said we're going

472
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: to reduce it by ten and we will eat the

473
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 2: car if you don't want to join us well as

474
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: a one time hit, we'll take the cost to make

475
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: this right. And I'd say half the venue said listen,

476
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: will help you out. The other other half said good luck,

477
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: eat it. So it was a fast, moved, fast decision,

478
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: and we thought it was worth the million dollars or

479
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: so to say, let's let's let's make the right message

480
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: with an artist that does care to this level.

481
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: But if you leave all emotions out, is it reasonable

482
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: to expect to see the Cure for twenty dollars in

483
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: an arena which only holds fifteen to twenty thousand people.

484
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: No, I think you're I think the you know, I

485
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: think the pricing of concerts in general, I don't think

486
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: we should. I think there's this fine line between yes,

487
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: we want it accessible, but I think it's a great

488
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: art and I think there's a price to it, and

489
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: I don't think we should fool ourselves. The fans will

490
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: not pay, especially the cure age fans that will not

491
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 2: pay for the great show. But as I said, my

492
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: job isn't a debate whether the artist wants to take

493
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: all the money or give or or or or or

494
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: Zach or Cure want to charge too little. I'm just trying.

495
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: My job is just deliver that platform for them. In

496
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: this case, I think I think we were we thought

497
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 2: we'd be better off to respond and address it than

498
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: leave it. Leave it as is.

499
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: Okay, now Live Nation owns, clubs and smaller venues. Based

500
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: on what you just said, you believe in your owned

501
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: venues that you should address the fees because in some

502
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: cases you think they're inappropriate and too high.

503
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I think as a I think we are.

504
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: If you look at our fee structure, we're no different

505
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: than AG or Independence anywhere else. Sports concerts, nine to thirty,

506
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: club AG, We're all in the same ballparks. We're all

507
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: charging facility fee, service fees. We all have the same

508
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: economic challenge of running a venue, paying staff and as

509
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: you read about inflation, staff costs up, insurance costs, So

510
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: we're all in the same predicament. But I do think

511
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: as the leader, we probably have to make we have

512
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: to start acting and moving a little bit more on

513
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: the younger developing artists club and low ticket price. So yes,

514
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: I do look at my twenty dollars amphitheater tickets or

515
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: a twenty dollars ticket in general, and I don't care

516
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: if it's rational right now that we got to pay

517
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: staff and we have costs and the service fees should

518
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: be what it should be to a fan right now,

519
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: We've got to build some trust back, So I think

520
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: we got to go all in pricing. But I do

521
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: think at Live Nation we'll look at the lower end

522
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: ticket prices in the theater and clubs and say, can

523
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: we also scale them back and make sure or we're

524
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: a defendable fee on a service on a ticket price. Okay, well,

525
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: now we might have allay other ways Bob to get

526
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: revenue to pubblement that. But I think it's been too

527
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: easy to add a dollar to the service fee. And

528
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: I think I think at a certain point of fans

529
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: says listen, I get it. I even get a twenty percent.

530
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: We've done the research. I understand the service fee paid staff,

531
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: and I understand it. One, don't surprise me at the end.

532
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: Please tell me upfront. Two if it's more than twenty percent,

533
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: I don't understand it. Where's it going doesn't seem fair.

534
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: So I think we are looking at we got to

535
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: do a better job of saying where it's going and

536
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: how it's broken out. That would be a start. But

537
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 2: if we go all in pricing, I do think we

538
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: still also have to look at the bottom end of

539
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: the lower end and make it more accessible.

540
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: Okay, as I say, a lot of people listening to

541
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: this are emotionally invested but don't know all of the process.

542
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: So let's start with the process of how Live Nation

543
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: gets a date or a tour and how the money

544
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: is established, both the paybact and what the ticket prices

545
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: will be.

546
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: So an artist has an agent, and whether they are

547
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: selling a local date to an arena or a club

548
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: show in Philadelphia, or maybe the agent is trying to

549
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: sell twenty or thirty dates together as a tour. That

550
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: agent's going to call the promoters. Whether it's Live Nation,

551
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: it's going to be aeg, it's going to be the

552
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 2: local promoter, seth another planet. There's always a local promoter.

553
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: So the agent's going to call three promoters and say,

554
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: bandex wants to play October one in Chicago. Make us

555
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: an offer, and they might you know, they might say

556
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: here's the ticket price or not at the beginning, it'll

557
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: depend on the artist. But we want to an arena

558
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: or a theater on October one in San Francisco. Make

559
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: us an offer. We'll come in, we'll come we'll run

560
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: the math. Look at the arena. Thirteen thousand seats what

561
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: did they do last time, sixty nine, thirty nine, one

562
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 2: hundred and ten. Look at their scaling, they sold out,

563
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: didn't sell out. Put that math together and say, you know,

564
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: we think we think there's this business that is going

565
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: to sell eighty percent of the tickets. We think it's

566
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: a four hundred thousand dollars guarantee. And we'll send back

567
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: that guarantee and say four hundred thousand dollars against a

568
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: thirty fifty and one hundred and ten dollars scaling agent

569
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: will take all three of those. Generally come back to

570
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: all three of us and say we want four fifty.

571
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: Highest bid is four fifty, And now the ticket prices

572
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: gets rescaled based on the guarantee. So now your ticket

573
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: price will go to one twenty and seventy nine and

574
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: sixty nine. So you can look to scale and gross

575
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: that number at the door.

576
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: So in your original bit, your original offer, you do

577
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: put in ticket price points.

578
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: As I said, it's it's it's both ways. Sometimes the

579
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: artist is clear on what. The agent will say, you know,

580
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: here's what we here's the maximum he'll charge. Here's the

581
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: ticket prices he'll charge it. Usually only the top end

582
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: they worry about. So they'll probably say, listen, historically he's

583
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: never gone above one twenty for a P one, so

584
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: come back with the scaling. There's some version of a

585
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 2: of a top end established by the artist, so we'll

586
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: come back with that scaling in it. Typically that scaleing

587
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: will spit out a number less than they want, and

588
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: we'll all probably sharpen our pencils, the eight promoters and

589
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: come back and say, listen, if you go to one forty,

590
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: we can pay you a four to fifty a night.

591
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: And that tends to be how it gets defined. So

592
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: the guarantee drives the ticket scaling. It's just math. Just back,

593
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: you're just dividing thirteen thousand seats by the guarantee and

594
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: then debating how many are each in each level.

595
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: Well, let's be very clear, at the end of the day,

596
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: the act, through his agent, establishes the price of the ticket.

597
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: Yes, why the cure decided he would have a low price, right,

598
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 2: he would have. We wouldn't have we wouldn't have put

599
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: an offer in those low prices. That wouldn't have been

600
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: historically what you do that would have came back and said,

601
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: I want to charge twenty dollars and I'll live with

602
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: a lower gross and a lower walk out, or other

603
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: artists will say, agents will say I want I want

604
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: a million dollar guarantee. Come back with the math.

605
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just assume, based on your example, you're

606
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: paying the act four hundred thousand dollars. Now, just for

607
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 1: the newbies, there is a potential back end, an additional payment.

608
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: Explain that.

609
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: Again. I'm going to use generalities, but typically you're going

610
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: to pay an artist a guarantee versus a ninety ten.

611
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a ninety five to five. So if you

612
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: sell out whatever tickets you sell that night, you're going

613
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 2: to get your total gross. And if you grossed five

614
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 2: hundred and ten thousand dollars after at the top end,

615
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: you're going to take expenses out rent local, local ushers,

616
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: local security, local venue costs, and then you might end

617
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: up at four hundred thousand dollars net after venue costs.

618
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: If you guarantee them four fifty, you write to check

619
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: for four fifty, regardless if after costs it's five hundred,

620
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: they're going to get ninety percent of that five hundred

621
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: versus their guarantee of four fifty, So they're going to

622
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: get four seventy five and you'll make your your ten percent.

623
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: So at minimum they got a floor. Their job is

624
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: then to push us to keep expenses down, sell as

625
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: many tickets as we can, and try to get that

626
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 2: artist to what they call percentages.

627
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: Okay, overall, what is Live Nations profit percentage? And where

628
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 1: do you actually make the money since the acts get

629
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: most of the ticket revenue.

630
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: Well, listen at the core. This is a scale business, right,

631
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, I had to build this over the last

632
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: fifteen years because you don't get rich on any one show.

633
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: It's the service global business. We're going to do forty

634
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: thousand shows in one hundred cities and forty countries. So

635
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: I remember an analyst wayback said it's the river and nickels, right,

636
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 2: So you have to build a business that has a

637
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: lot of ongoing nickels of revenue streams around that flywheel

638
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: called the show. So you know, if you kind of

639
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: look at our model, we're going to do forty thousand shows,

640
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 2: We'll spend about ten billion dollars on guarantees or those

641
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: walkouts at midnight. We'll make a bit. We'll make a

642
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: small percentage on that so called door where we're going

643
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: to make our money now is okay, we have one

644
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: hundred million people walked into the door, so we're going

645
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: to one We have one hundred and thirty one hundred

646
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: and fifty of our own venues, amphitheaters, clubs, theaters, three

647
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: hundred festivals, so in those places will be the venue

648
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: we're going to make the food and beverage, the parking,

649
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: the service fees, and the sponsorship. So you're kind of

650
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: vertical on the non live nation shows. We're going to

651
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: make money on those rebates as we talk about bring

652
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 2: our content to the arena, bring them forty to fifty

653
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: shows and get paid a rebate. And then third is

654
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 2: we're going to spoil our global sponsorship business just in

655
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: general delivering global sponsorships to our shows, our festivals, our venues,

656
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: our access, image programs, pre sale programs, all of those

657
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: ways that we can deliver sponsorships to big brands. And

658
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: then Ticketmaster service fees those twenty percent that they're going

659
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: to make on that side. So those are the main

660
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: buckets that you're going to put together that deliver your

661
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: profitability above your on your forty thousand shows.

662
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, what's the margin

663
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: we're at.

664
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 2: You know, we're a combined basis. We're a ten eleven

665
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 2: percent margin business. Concert business is a low margin two

666
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: two percent margin, could be four. Sponsorship is a high

667
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: margin business. And ticketings it's thirty five percent business. But

668
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: you're netting out to a ten eleven percent margin business overall.

669
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: And compared to other companies. Apple strives for thirty percent margin.

670
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're a tech company, you're going to be

671
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: in your thirty forty plus percent margins. You would You

672
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: wouldn't find a monopoly in history that had a ten

673
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: eleven percent margin, if you want to kind of use

674
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: that analogy. Typically, monopoly means you've exerted, you have enough

675
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: power and pricing power, et cetera. You probably have a

676
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: very high margin return. So you're right, it is a

677
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: low margin business. At the core. You have to have

678
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: global scale like we built ultimately deliver a consistent, global

679
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 2: good business. But it's a it's a hand to hand combat.

680
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: How much of the income is from sponsorship.

681
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: You know what is ballpark? Were about forty percent sponsorship.

682
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: It's a big business for us in our festivals.

683
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk superstar acts and I'm gonna speak English.

684
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: Here there are a number of superstar acts, some of

685
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: them who used to be with AEG eight. But Live

686
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: Nation pays more, and sometimes the act goes with Live

687
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: Most of the time the act goes with Live Nation.

688
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,959
Speaker 1: How can Live Nation pay more?

689
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't go the pay more route.

690
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that's fair fair all the time as

691
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: I went to that earlier bidding process. When there's a

692
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: big global tour that AG and Live Nation are bidding on,

693
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: I can't remember the last latest one. We're both we're

694
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: both neck to neck. I mean, there's never a version

695
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: that a G they're calling me saying, oh god, you

696
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: so overpaid. It's yours. I mean, god, we're just we're

697
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: just too good as a company as is a G.

698
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: Nor are they overpaid. I mean, you're literally going to

699
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: win by a dollar either way. You're you you at

700
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 2: that point though, you're you're selling your global business, you're

701
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: selling your relationships, you're selling your marketing, you're you know,

702
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: so you're you're you're selling a bundle. But I wouldn't

703
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: tell you that we There would be no version that

704
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 2: we are waking up and stealing a tour from them

705
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: or winning a tour from them because we dramatically overpaid.

706
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: It's an inside baseball negotiating.

707
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, there's a lot of dollars involved here,

708
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: and I certainly know specific cases. At the end of

709
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: the day, Live Nation paid more than AG was willing

710
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: to pay, and the act went with Live Nation, let

711
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: me let me, let let me go to a different spot.

712
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: And while addressed, well, just I joke with my team,

713
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: right when we lose a tour, Age overpaid when we

714
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: went a tour for geniuses, right, So I deal with

715
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: this every day when when when we losed AG, my

716
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 2: promoter will come to me go, oh my god, they

717
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: so overpaid. They didn't you know. That's that's that's what

718
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 2: competitively wise, that's typically what you do is the only

719
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 2: way you must have lost is the other guy must

720
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: have dramatically overpaid. Most of us are every negotiation with

721
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 2: that agent, it's inside baseball. That agent is calling you

722
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: saying Age's at forty one million and you're at thirty

723
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: nine eight These calling Age saying they're at thirty nine Like,

724
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: it's not like we're at fifty and they're at forty two.

725
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: There's there's no version of that we're all it's none

726
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: of us and Nora's age. When they beat me, it's

727
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: not because they dramatically overpaid. You know, they won the

728
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: Luke Combs tour. They's got a good relationship with Capian

729
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: won that in the US, and and and and and

730
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: you know, there's kind of a combination of relationship meets

731
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: money meets you know, their package. But so I just

732
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 2: say that because I definitely don't believe that when we

733
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: win it's because we overpaid. We typically win because we

734
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: have a global business different than theirs. We have been

735
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: able to generally make artists more money overall, which really

736
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: matters not what you pay them. What the artist cares

737
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 2: about is what's the walkout in the end. And we

738
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: were the author of platinum and Dynamic Pricing and and

739
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: and VIP. So I do believe we've been able to

740
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: help deliver for the artists, but wouldn't say we overpay

741
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: to win. I think we both win on price, but

742
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: but there's always a package around it.

743
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk specifically about Ticketmaster. Ticket Master is also

744
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: a secondary platform, okay, meaning the ticket's already been sold,

745
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: it can be resold on ticket Master. Let's start first,

746
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: the fact that the ticket cannot be resold at less

747
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: than in the original price. Is that a Ticketmaster policy

748
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: or is that an act policy?

749
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: That's Ticketmaster. So when I took over Ticketmaster, our biggest

750
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: challenge of Ticketmaster and the reason it was to declining

751
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 2: five years in a row, Well, stubbub was kicking its

752
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 2: ass at ten o'clock. When you went to ticket Master

753
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: to buy that Tour of the Day ten years ago,

754
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: we said no tickets available, literally, and I followed it

755
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: one day and for the next six months, like eighty

756
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: six million people came to the page which we basically said,

757
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: go to stubhubb. So our sports clients then also our team,

758
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 2: team owners, NBA, NHL adopted exchanges and secondary fully at

759
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: that point. So number one reality was we need to

760
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: be able to say we need to open our platform

761
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: and let secondary dots live. We can't keep telling customers

762
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: we have no tickets at ten am. Well Secondary is

763
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 2: alive and well down the street.

764
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: But one of the.

765
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: Realities was what were we going to do that we

766
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: believe for the team and the artist would still be

767
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: something that is right for their business. Things we don't

768
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 2: do which hurt us overall market share is we don't

769
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: do spec selling and we don't underprice face. That probably

770
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 2: means at any given time we have fifty percent less

771
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: inventory than sea geek and stub Hub because, as you see,

772
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: a lot of this game that go on now is

773
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: spec selling where they don't have the seats, they don't

774
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: really have the ticket. They're masterful, they're very good marketers.

775
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: They'll put three seats together at eight hundred dollars and

776
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: two seats at two thousand, but they don't have any

777
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: of those. But if you buy the eight hundred because

778
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: it seems cheaper than the two, they'll email you and

779
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: they'll find seats a row difference and you'll buy them. Anyways,

780
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: So we don't do spec selling, and we decided that

781
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: we would always say we don't ever think content should

782
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: be underpriced from whatever the artist or team said it at.

783
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: So that's been our philosophy and we've stayed true to

784
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: that so far.

785
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the payment to ticket Master when a

786
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: ticket is re sold on its platform.

787
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: It's the same. So the secondary has to be approved

788
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 2: by the venue because the venue, again when they select

789
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: a ticketing company, they mandate what the secondary is or

790
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: isn't so it's the same split basically the secondary. I

791
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: can't turn on the secondary and that venue without the

792
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: venue approving it. And the third thing that we do

793
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: that scalpers I guess don't do is we get approval

794
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: from the artist. So again, a lot of times if

795
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: the artist says I don't want TM to turn on secondary,

796
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: we don't, even though Seekeek and others will, well, you know,

797
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: we'll fill up Taylor Swift for example, we didn't turn

798
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 2: on DM plus and Seekeek and others made a fortune.

799
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: But but the ultimate is the reality is the venue

800
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: controls the ticket secondary and turning on and turning off

801
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: for their teams.

802
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: Uh So on a concert, if the on a secondary

803
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: is the split similar to the.

804
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: Primary, similar prime? Yeah, they're all the similar.

805
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: And then to what degree does the fee change based

806
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: on the price of the ticket?

807
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: I would assume it has the same up scales up

808
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: as the ticket goes up twenty, twenty five, thirty, whatever

809
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: the actual.

810
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: St Okay, So Nicholas to say, on the secondary, the

811
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: venue is making the majority of the money's supposed a

812
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: ticket master, but.

813
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: Just the fees, not the yes, just for the unknown

814
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: there for the people out there it's not. The face

815
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: is the third party person making the real money. The

816
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 2: fee is then just split between the venue and TM.

817
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: Okay, there are many events the ticket master is the

818
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: ticketing company, but Live Nation is not the promoter. Yes, correct, Yes,

819
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: So if I am a promoter and Ticketmaster is the

820
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: platform I'm using for the gig, I would say, hey,

821
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: if their secondary market, why can't I share in that

822
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: income because Live Nation is sharing in the upscale upsell

823
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: on Live Nation shows, but they're also making money on

824
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: my show.

825
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you, as the promoter can say I don't

826
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: want to turn it on. So typically AG won't turn

827
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: it on. They'll say it's my show and we don't

828
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: want to turn on secondary in that venue. So the

829
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: promoter has the right with his show in that venue

830
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 2: to determine if if if TM does get turned on

831
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: for the platform and well and the promoter. You know,

832
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 2: remember the promoter is always going to go to the

833
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 2: venue and say, in general, I want to get paid

834
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: my rebate. So you know, his motive is always going

835
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: to be whether however much money the venue makes. Your

836
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: job is the promoter is to figure out how to

837
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: increase your rebates.

838
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: So theoretically, if you know it's an in demand show.

839
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: The promoter would be aware of this and say I

840
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: want to payment that in essence would be percentage of

841
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: your fees that you're making on the resale.

842
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to make clear we don't get

843
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: that misstated. The promoter in general isn't specifically saying give

844
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: me The artist or the promoter aren't specifically saying give

845
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 2: me some of that eight dollars or two dollars. That

846
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: conversation doesn't happen. The venue has already got a relationship

847
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 2: with the venue or the promoter, and the promoter is

848
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 2: getting his five, eight, nine dollars rebate as a business overall.

849
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: So if you are the venue and you want to

850
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 2: turn it on, the promoter isn't going to worry about

851
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 2: that one revenue stream that night. You're playing for the

852
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 2: full year, and there are some days where the show

853
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 2: loses money and the venues are great partners and help

854
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: you out on the rent or help you out on

855
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: you know, it's the bad shows. You want to save

856
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: the good days for the venue, not the days they

857
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: can make some money.

858
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about ticket prices. You know there have

859
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: been some amplified examples like Springsteen. Okay, you mentioned Pearl Jam.

860
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: It's a non transferable ticket. They're establishing the price. That's

861
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 1: what it costs. But there are other acts. Let's use

862
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: Springsteen who went over one hundred dollars, and people say,

863
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: I am a die hard fan, i am entitled to

864
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: be in the building. I'm entitled to get a good

865
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: seat at a low price. These are the same. No,

866
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: these are boomers mostly going to a Springstein show. If

867
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: they go to dinner, it's one hundred dollars a person. Yeah,

868
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: but for somehow to go to see Springsteen, one hundred

869
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: dollars is too much. What's the reality of pricing and

870
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: is it different for younger acts? And is it really

871
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: we should just charge what the ticket is worth.

872
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 2: It's a it's a really interesting complex problem, right. You

873
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: have this fandom, as you know, that fan is so

874
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: emotionally connected to that artist. They've listened a thousand times

875
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: and they really believe they have rights. It's very different

876
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 2: than sports, which is a badge of honor to say

877
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 2: this court side's cost sixteen thousand dollars. You know, I

878
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: was talking. I was talking little bron James the night

879
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 2: he broke the record and ticket on points and I said,

880
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, lebron tonight to sit courtside Laker games ten

881
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: to twenty thousand dollars, but they're mad. Beyonce's charge in

882
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: eight hundred for one tour every five years. But it's

883
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: a you know, the super Bowl. The sports business is

884
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: kind of embraced. It's expensive and for some reason that

885
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: Diehart fan doesn't get on Twitter and say that team

886
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 2: owner is an asshole because I can't see the Lakers

887
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: for sixty six dollars. So you're right, the fan is

888
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: very mostly connected. They've got great outlets now on Twitter

889
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: and other ways. They really believe that they have the

890
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: right to see that artist. But the reality, as you said, Bob,

891
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: then in this scarcity world of birkin bags and lbmhs

892
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: that you wrote about last week, the live experience is

893
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: a absolutely special moment in time. That front row is

894
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 2: a birkin bag and more. It's a an exceptional product.

895
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 2: And you're right, I do think the quicker the artists

896
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: figure out that we got to charge closer to market

897
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: for some of the seats. You know, Springsteen was a

898
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: great example. It was only one percent of the seats

899
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: were over one thousand dollars. All we did was transfer.

900
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 2: Last tour, the tickets went right to the scalper and

901
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: resold to the fan for two thousand dollars. So this

902
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: time we just took those same tickets and said, Bruce,

903
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: you should actually get the money, but let's make sure

904
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 2: we keep the rest of the house cheap. But the

905
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 2: stories don't get that headline. You know, ninety eight percent

906
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: of my shows don't sell out. Most shows are very affordable,

907
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: but you're going to have some burking bags in the

908
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 2: Beyonces and the Drakes and the bad Bunnies and these

909
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 2: these artists and the front rows are scarce business commodities.

910
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: And I do think that, well the secondary exists free

911
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: and free and clear in America, that you do have

912
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: to start saying, then, if the fan is buying it

913
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: from stub hub, they are fans, why wouldn't the artists

914
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 2: participate in that art and have more of it? So

915
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: I do think I think that they have to slowly

916
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: start charging closer to market at the front end. Now

917
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: you know, you know, we launched a fare ticket act,

918
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you'll mention all that, you know. I

919
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: do believe that the reality is the Digital ticket is

920
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 2: a great tool that could help us out in this mess.

921
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: I mean, the mess we have right now is that

922
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: creates the Twitter storms, is that fan comes at ten

923
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 2: am and they're pissed off because at ten oh one

924
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 2: it's sold out and there's ten pages of scalpers selling

925
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 2: tickets for three hundred times face and I get the

926
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: d ms and the hate mail and the and the

927
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: death threats that say, you know you asked whole you

928
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 2: must have given all those tickets to the scalper at

929
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: ten o'clock. It's not fair. That's the drama that we created,

930
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: right and we do our best with verified fan and

931
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 2: speed bumps and it's but it's a it's an arms

932
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 2: race because it's five billion dollars in secondary of vail

933
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 2: to make a very very very high margin business. So

934
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: while we're letting that run wild, then you either have

935
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 2: to control it or you have to price to it.

936
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 2: But I think if we let it run wild like

937
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 2: we are today and then it's silly of us then

938
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: not to let the artists participate in some of that

939
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 2: and price it better. Or we got to control it,

940
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: and we could with digital ticketing. We could tomorrow just

941
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 2: say there's a cap on it, or there's some rules

942
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: around it. A lot of countries in the world have

943
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: figured out this is probably not a great idea to

944
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 2: run wild and have fans have to pay these prices.

945
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 2: So I do think that it should be some control

946
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: put in place, so we could put some limits on it.

947
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of faith that we can

948
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: get much done in the government probably right now, or monitored,

949
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: or actually execute it properly. So I think you do

950
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: then have to say, probably have to price closer to

951
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: market for some of those front rows and some of

952
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: those seats. So the artist who's already paying that anyways,

953
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: they're paying it today. It's not that it gets not

954
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 2: being paid, it's just not being monetized by the artist.

955
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: Would you say people complaining about excessive ticket prices is

956
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: more of a boomer gen X phenomenon as opposed to

957
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: younger acts.

958
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this. It's an interesting you know, to see

959
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 2: that which ones do flare up? As you're right. I

960
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: sat at the Bad Bunny Stadium show here in La

961
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: credible show, credible performer with the third highest grossing stadium

962
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 2: in history. He broke most records, and I said, I

963
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: said to his manager, credible. The fans are, they're dancing,

964
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 2: they're having their blast, they dressed up. This is a

965
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: party tonight. And the tickets were you know, price well,

966
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: but there was no social about it. But but definitely

967
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: the the Springsteen fans seem to get really upset, even

968
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: though it was probably much older and richer. So it

969
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 2: did seem a bit ironic that week.

970
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: The other thing that people don't realize is the very

971
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: expensive tickets are not only going to the rich. The

972
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: hardcore fan will pay that price, even if I hear

973
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: from them all the time, even I'm stubum, and they're

974
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: very happy about being that close.

975
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 2: I so agree with you, Bob. I said this to

976
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: an artist last week who went on this low ticket price,

977
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: and I just like you, just you know, you're missing it.

978
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 2: I came from no money and I remember going to

979
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: my Robert Plant tour in uh In, Toronto from Thunder

980
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 2: Bay on a bus and yes, I saved my money

981
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: and I worked hard and it was all my money

982
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: for that month or whatever it was. But that was

983
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: a great experience. And you know, I get these emails

984
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: now from someone that says, oh my god, I had

985
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 2: to work two jobs to get to the Bad Bunny Show.

986
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know most most people look at concerts

987
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: as a really special moment in their kodact life. It's

988
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: it's magic moment maybe twice a year. Way cheaper than

989
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: Disneyland or the super Bowl, or the NFL or the

990
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: NBA playoffs or or an expensive night out. So it's

991
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 2: really cheap overall considering. And you're right, this is not

992
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: that the that the this just the rich people. This

993
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: is a great, great product that people will buy as

994
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: they're going to buy the Gucci bag. They're going to

995
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 2: buy moments in life where they will step up and

996
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: spoil themselves at the big screen TV or whatever it

997
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: may be. But you're right, this is a business where

998
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: we can charge a bit more. I'm not saying excessively,

999
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: but it's it's a great two hour performance of a

1000
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: lifetime that happens once every three four years in that market.

1001
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 2: You don't have to underprice yourself. Low low to middle

1002
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 2: income we'll we'll, we'll, we'll make their way to that

1003
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,919
Speaker 2: arena for that special night.

1004
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: About twenty years ago, the concept of platinum started. You

1005
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: got a seat very close to the stage, you might

1006
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: get to eat meat, a member of the band, you

1007
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: might get to hear a sound check, whatever. We learned

1008
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: that the extras weren't what we're selling the tickets. People

1009
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: just wanted the good seats. But when it came to Springsteen,

1010
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: the term platinum was used for tickets that were not

1011
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: right up front, and in addition, those were dynamically priced.

1012
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: How did we get there?

1013
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, the platinum, the VIP tickets, no different

1014
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: ways where there were higher ticket prices outside of thep ones,

1015
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 2: And you're right, they all got bought, regardless of whether

1016
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 2: it was a cocktail, shrimp and a laminate. It was

1017
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 2: just the good seats and they bought them. So recently,

1018
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: over the last five years a those sound checks and

1019
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 2: meet and greets and VIPs, especially through COVID, before and

1020
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: after it started to wean out, they were the cost

1021
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 2: to execute. They weren't that special anymore, and the business

1022
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 2: converted to more of a platinum ticket. Let's just charge

1023
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 2: for those good seats. Let's put some seats into an

1024
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 2: allocation where they're more than the pre ones and we

1025
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 2: can price them better. Started five eight years ago, band

1026
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 2: started to embrace this idea that there was an idea

1027
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: and again, artists are always just looking at the other

1028
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: side of the equation. As everyday secondary got more sunlight

1029
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: and went from the streets to the internet, and you

1030
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: could start seeing what they were paying the obviously the artist,

1031
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 2: the manager of the agent, promoter. We all looked at

1032
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 2: that and went, geez, look what's happening over here. How

1033
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 2: are we going to get the artists to charge closer

1034
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 2: to market on some of the good seats. So that

1035
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: that's when Platinum launched. It's done really well. Dynamics started

1036
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 2: same thing eight nine years ago when you started just

1037
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 2: we started with price Master, where you started to say,

1038
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 2: there's different you know, this scaling shouldn't be the same

1039
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 2: most dynamic products, hotels, airlines aren't sergeant the same on

1040
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 2: the last day, in the first day of the middle seat.

1041
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 2: So we started price Master years ago to say to

1042
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 2: the artist, you know, a Friday night in New York

1043
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: should not be the same ticket price as a Tuesday

1044
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: in Cleveland. The aisle seat's worth more than the middle

1045
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,959
Speaker 2: You can monetize the house smarter, you can sell it out,

1046
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: set charge less for the back seats more for the front.

1047
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: Said it as three scalings, which was always kind of

1048
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 2: the thirty years of doing three scalings and same markets

1049
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 2: all the time. So dynamic price Master had been used

1050
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 2: for the last probably eight years. And I think coming

1051
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 2: out of COVID dynamic platinum adding more increasing the allocation,

1052
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 2: the dry got a little sexy, and more and more

1053
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: artists started putting and promoters we started putting more in

1054
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 2: the platinum allocation to increase the gross and I think we're, uh,

1055
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 2: you know, I think we're learning now. H We've we've

1056
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: got to watch. If the definition of platinum is going

1057
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 2: to be platinum, we better make sure it's a platinum seat.

1058
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: And if we're gonna dynamic, we better put better rules

1059
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: in place on when we change ticket pricing, not not

1060
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 2: not in the price sale not or not in the

1061
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 2: on sale. So we're I think we're I think we're

1062
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: as an industry or learning how to price dynamic tickets

1063
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 2: to demand. And that's kind of what's been going on today.

1064
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: I think we're slowly putting better rules in place to

1065
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 2: figure out how to do it smartly.

1066
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: Let's use Springsteen as an example. Demand was heavy and

1067
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: tickets in the platinum area spike to momultiple four figures.

1068
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: Anybody experienced in the business knows. No one's buying those

1069
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: tickets at those excessive prices. They're waiting for them to

1070
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: come down. What happened there was that purely a program,

1071
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: an algorithm. Was that something Spreedsteam was aware of in

1072
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: advance how expensive the ticket should be. Is this something

1073
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: that needs to be done by hand? Was it done

1074
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: by hand? Yeah?

1075
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 2: Again, artists are you know, as you and I talked

1076
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 2: about there, there's nothing done in price in that a agent,

1077
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: artist manager aren't agreeing too. There's no no promoter gets

1078
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 2: to just run the clock. It's all part of your plan. Listen.

1079
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 2: I think we're as an industry, we're still learning what

1080
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: it means to dynamic and platinum. And you're right, there

1081
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 2: are a few tours where you put a few tickets

1082
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: in this twenty five hundred up to five thousand dollars

1083
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: limit and said, let's put some platinums at that price.

1084
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: Reality is ten of those sell. It's not a smart

1085
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 2: strategy because the headline's so bad, but the volume is

1086
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 2: not there. I think that's a lesson quickly learned. I

1087
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 2: don't think you're seeing a lot of platinum now. That's

1088
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 2: probably more than a thousand seems to be the quick

1089
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: learning curve. I know we did it in Vegas and others,

1090
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 2: So I think the imperfect science of how do we

1091
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: manage the secondary business that's going to boom instantly at

1092
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 2: ten o'clock, how do we get some of that captured

1093
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 2: on this side of the ledger. The pricing isn't perfect

1094
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 2: right now, and it is manually done, not complete algorithms.

1095
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 2: You're looking at algorithms to figure out the pricing of

1096
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: secondary and demand to come up with a range. But

1097
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 2: I think we're quickly learning on platinum. Any major tour,

1098
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 2: whether you can really sell a thirty three hundred dollars

1099
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 2: ticket or a twenty seven isn't worth the small upside

1100
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 2: You probably should just put some good platinum somewhere in

1101
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 2: the five to one thousand dollars range seems to be

1102
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: the sweet spot right now where you can sell a

1103
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: decent scale of those in the good seats and the

1104
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: good sections and be happy with that uplift that didn't

1105
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 2: go to the secondary.

1106
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: Okay, conventional wisdom is that ticket Master is a monopoly.

1107
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: You hear this from elected officials, you hear this from

1108
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: ticket buyers. What is your response to that.

1109
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's a it's a business that when we

1110
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 2: merged ten years ago, the DOJ in there. I think

1111
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 2: IRV and I spent eighteen months going through that process

1112
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 2: of the DJ digging in deep. So and when the

1113
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 2: DOJ digs in deep, I mean there's ten thousand emails later.

1114
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: So they did that when we merged and let the

1115
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: let the let the acquisition go through. They let the

1116
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 2: merger happen. So that that's step one that says they

1117
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 2: didn't believe it was a monopoly. You know, it couldn't

1118
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 2: find facts that said Ticketmaster was a monopoly, or they

1119
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 2: wouldn't approved it. We agreed to a dissent degree for

1120
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 2: ten years that said we will absolutely then if there

1121
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 2: is concern, we won't leverage. We won't punish any venue

1122
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: that doesn't use Ticketmaster. And that went on for ten years.

1123
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: I think it was the ninth year. DJ opened up

1124
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: the case again four or five years ago now said

1125
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 2: we have a couple of cases where we think you

1126
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 2: threaten threaten the venue and front of the venue means

1127
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 2: you know, a random promoter. And of my nine said

1128
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 2: you should renew a Ticketmaster. You're not going to get

1129
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: a show. I mean, this isn't like you know of

1130
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of shows, and nine years later, this

1131
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 2: isn't as we always said, this isn't an ongoing structural

1132
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 2: reality doesn't happen. And by the way, those venues when

1133
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 2: you looked at him, they didn't actually get reduced. Show

1134
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 2: camp facts didn't support that, so there was no real

1135
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 2: actual venue that got punished. We just decided at that

1136
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: point that we would extend the decree for five years,

1137
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 2: as you always do, to make sure you just kind

1138
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 2: of simplify this case and move on. But they spent

1139
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 2: a year deposing me and going through it again. That

1140
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 2: was the three or four years ago. So again I

1141
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 2: would say to you, if we were the monopoly a

1142
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 2: year after the DOJ probing, you trust me, if there

1143
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:52,959
Speaker 2: was real structural legal data that said Live Live Nation,

1144
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 2: Ticketmaster together, single or momopoly, they would have sued us,

1145
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 2: done something, gave us a five year extension, and moved on.

1146
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 2: So you know, it's not like we haven't been already

1147
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 2: investigated deep and haven't seen every email I've ever written

1148
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 2: and everyone else's and all of our promoters and ticket Master,

1149
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: they've been down the deep dive many times. So I

1150
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: say that in the sense of, you know, that's kind

1151
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 2: of a clean bill of health to date. Now I

1152
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 2: understand why it's easy to jump on the wagon. The

1153
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 2: ticket master and the service fees and what you and

1154
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 2: I've been talking about. We haven't done a good job

1155
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 2: as an industry, especially on my front as Live Nation Ticketmaster,

1156
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: explaining out loud what happens to fees, how they're set,

1157
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: what happens. It hasn't been a It hasn't been a

1158
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: big motive historically for me to kind of go out

1159
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 2: loud and say, hey, the venue, my client has taken

1160
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:51,200
Speaker 2: most of the money, or the artist is setting the

1161
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 2: ticket price. I'm a B to B business. I serviced

1162
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 2: the artists and venue and Ticketmaster's job is to been

1163
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 2: to take that punch in the head for the industry.

1164
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 2: That's been part of what people do why they hire you.

1165
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 2: There's no glory in being the ticketing company who no

1166
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: matter who you are, Sea Geek, Access, anyone, they all

1167
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 2: have the same challenges when there's ten million fans that

1168
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 2: want a million tickets and then secondary So I understand

1169
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: why the flurry of energy can be spent on it

1170
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: because it looks big and it looks like there's service

1171
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 2: ticket master fees and challenges, but we don't think there's

1172
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 2: any basis to a legal challenge that says in any

1173
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 2: way we're monopoly. Our margins prove that our daily battles

1174
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 2: to win that venue or lose that venue or win

1175
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 2: that tour are live and well that's well documented. There's

1176
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with being big, nothing wrong with being great,

1177
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with offering a great product and being better

1178
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: than the other guy and winning. We don't set ticket prices.

1179
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: We're not harming fans. Artists have all the options in

1180
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 2: the world. Do you know that as well as I do.

1181
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 2: There's only one aerosmith that has one hundred dates of

1182
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 2: a and a thousand venues that want those dates and

1183
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 2: every promoter and partner that wants it. So the business is,

1184
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, widely misunderstood. As you know outside of the industry,

1185
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 2: big as big as an easy target. Ticketing is an

1186
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 2: easy target. But on the fundamentals on a monopoly, no,

1187
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 2: we're We're far from that.

1188
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: So let's go a little deeper here. Administrations change, and

1189
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: presently under Biden, the woman who's head of the FTC

1190
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: lead at Khan is very active. Everything that she has

1191
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: tried to uh get through has not ultimately passed. But

1192
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 1: inside the business, it's well known that she is looking

1193
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: at ticket Master in Live Nation questions of monopoly antitrust?

1194
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: Are they asking you for information? Do you have a

1195
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: team at Live Nation who is dealing with this?

1196
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to be clear, though they there tends to

1197
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 2: be you tend to either deal with the FTC or

1198
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 2: the DOJ, and they kind of split it up. If

1199
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 2: they're going to probe, it's the DOJ that are doing

1200
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 2: the investigation on us right now, not the FTC. So

1201
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 2: that wouldn't be in not that she couldn't, but she

1202
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't be doing it if they're doing it. So right now,

1203
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,799
Speaker 2: we have been working with the DOJ since November, providing

1204
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 2: them all of the data. They want to take a

1205
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 2: look at our business and see if there's any new

1206
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 2: data that would support any thesises around our ticket monopoly

1207
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 2: or descent decree. So we're working with them and that's

1208
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 2: that'll be an ongoing process and somewhere in the next

1209
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 2: somewhere this year. The sad part about the DJ is

1210
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 2: they get to kind of leak when they're looking at you,

1211
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 2: but you don't really get a final date when you're

1212
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 2: going to be done with it. So we'll live that

1213
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 2: this year and be cooperative with them, But we don't

1214
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 2: we think legally. Dan Wall, who now works for US

1215
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 2: full time, has not a great great article on kind

1216
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 2: of the technical legal part the DOJ and the case.

1217
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 2: So we think we're complying and we'll we'll get through this.

1218
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 1: What do you say to the people who say, since

1219
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: you have an excess of fifty percent market share, you're

1220
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 1: inherently a monopoly.

1221
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't. I don't you know the market share? You know?

1222
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: I could go down a whole bunch of you're a lawyer,

1223
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 2: so I could go down a whole bunch of paths

1224
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 2: on how big a market how big is the competition

1225
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 2: today versus when we merged. I don't have fifty percent

1226
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 2: market share with you, and I can debate how to

1227
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 2: define market share. There's thousands of venues, there's lots of promoters.

1228
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 2: The math will say on promoting side, I don't have

1229
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 2: fifty percent in America. And when you look at the festivals,

1230
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 2: the ticketing, the arenas, the theaters, the clubs, there's more

1231
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 2: competition ticketing today than there was ten years ago. Seakeek

1232
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 2: today announcing going public. Stub Hub Access didn't exist. I

1233
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 2: mean when we merged this company, there was nobody. We

1234
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 2: had to white label our software to AEG for three

1235
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 2: years so we could start a competitor called Access. That

1236
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: was the mandate from the DOJ. But that was at

1237
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 2: a time when they didn't think we're and they didn't

1238
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 2: think we're operly. Then there wasn't even close to the

1239
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 2: competitive nature there is today. So I would say to

1240
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 2: you we we have grown globally really well. In America.

1241
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 2: Our market share since we merged to today has gone down.

1242
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 2: Sea Geek, Access have taken more venues because they didn't

1243
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 2: exist when we merged. So today, if you're a venue bob,

1244
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 2: you're going to have no there's no debate. You're going

1245
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 2: to be able to say, I got three great competitive

1246
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 2: options that I can get the best deal I want

1247
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 2: from Access, see Geek or ticket Master. I don't have

1248
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 2: to pick ticket Master. Take Master maybe better than the

1249
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 2: other ones that might have better technology. They may they

1250
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 2: may they may have a better product, and that's where

1251
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:11,760
Speaker 2: we tend to win. But you don't have to pick

1252
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 2: us as the Washington Redskins or Commanders just picked Seakeeek

1253
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 2: for their stadium. So, you know, we think it's still

1254
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 2: a really competitive business. Our margins are the best ultimate

1255
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 2: dictation of that. If you're if you have margins of

1256
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 2: where we are, you're you're not exerting or leveraging any

1257
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 2: power against your your your your, your user base. So

1258
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 2: we think the artists have great options. We think venues

1259
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: have great options. We think we've been able to demonstrate that,

1260
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 2: and we think the market's more competitive today than it

1261
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 2: was before. Even as big and strong and great as

1262
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 2: our businesses globally, we still think there's competition.

1263
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: Okay, in other territories ticketing is different and the you

1264
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 1: k there are multiple ticket sellers for venues. Can you

1265
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: explain a how that works and how you're involved in that,

1266
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: and b you have your competitors who I speak with

1267
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 1: who want that model in the US, so if you

1268
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:19,679
Speaker 1: could address that.

1269
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the UK, I think, you know, Germany is not

1270
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 2: really like that a little bit. But yeah, So historically

1271
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 2: outside of America, it was an allocation market. If you

1272
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 2: were the venue, you allocated to multiple ticketing companies. The

1273
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:48,760
Speaker 2: exclusive venue model was a US red model. I would

1274
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:50,760
Speaker 2: say to you though, that if you look at where

1275
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 2: the trend is going internationally. Generally, as the new buildings

1276
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 2: are being built, they're looking to go to a more

1277
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 2: exit exclusive model because they're you know, think about the

1278
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 2: difference in internationalist. They didn't have NBA, NHL arenas they

1279
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 2: have soccer stadiums, so not a lot of things were built.

1280
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 2: As the new buildings were being built, whether it's a

1281
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 2: soccer or or a hockey arena, they tend to now go,

1282
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: you know what, if I'm building a billion dollar arena

1283
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 2: or a football stadium, I should go monetize my ticketing rights,

1284
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 2: and I probably could get somebody to pay me more

1285
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 2: money to have exclusive ticketing rights than three people have

1286
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 2: the rights. So that's where the model grows out. So

1287
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 2: you look now at some of the businesses in the UK,

1288
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 2: the football businesses, they tend to go exclusive. Now SEEKIK

1289
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: had a few, We have a few. So I would say,

1290
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 2: you know, I think the venues as they get built,

1291
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 2: and you build a building, your job is to figure

1292
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:56,719
Speaker 2: out where am I going to get paid the most

1293
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 2: for all of my revenue streams. And I think you're

1294
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 2: starting to see some of those venues say I actually

1295
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 2: think I can monetize it differently. Now, I'll back up up.

1296
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, the golden child that says that

1297
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: all has to be exclusive. That's the model I inherited.

1298
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,599
Speaker 2: It's been working in this industry for long before my time.

1299
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 2: It's the model we run to date. I'm not telling

1300
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,440
Speaker 2: you that I think the future needs to be exclusive.

1301
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,680
Speaker 2: I could Ticketmaster could operate on an allocation model as

1302
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 2: well as an exclusive model and do really well. The

1303
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 2: irony is the double side of the venue is if

1304
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 2: you go back to the venue and say, great, you're

1305
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 2: not going to be exclusive, we don't have to pay

1306
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 2: as much. I'll be happy to sell sixty percent of

1307
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 2: your tickets without having to buy exclusivity. If that's the

1308
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 2: model we want to market. So it's a balance, right,

1309
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 2: I don't have to be exclusive. The cost of exclusive,

1310
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 2: so in the industry is expensive. Now the venues have

1311
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 2: done a good job charging a very real premium for that,

1312
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 2: and maybe at a certain point the business model is

1313
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 2: better for everybody, meaning the ticket master and companies if

1314
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 2: we don't have exclusive because the best, the best seller

1315
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 2: still wins in the end. Okay, just to be.

1316
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 1: Very very clear for those not in the know in

1317
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 1: the UK, let's just use an example of three ticket

1318
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: resellers or ticket sellers actually A do they pay the venue?

1319
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: B do they pull inventory from the same database.

1320
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 2: No, you're going to have a you know again, if

1321
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 2: you look what's happening. AE g owns the O two arena,

1322
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 2: So they're gonna in theory, they favor their ticketing company,

1323
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 2: just like CTS does in Germany. So they're going to

1324
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 2: run the They're going to run their database, the central database.

1325
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: They're going to give most allocation to their own ticket companmpany,

1326
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 2: and then they're going to give as limited amount of

1327
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 2: as tickets as they can to us and others to

1328
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,639
Speaker 2: kind of finish off the market. But it's not a

1329
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 2: free for all allocated. How to three companies equally access

1330
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 2: that venue. I could give you the opposite there where

1331
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 2: we're not getting paid or have the same allocation as

1332
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 2: the venue because they're allocating to their own company, but

1333
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 2: it's off one database, and they would the venue would

1334
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:32,320
Speaker 2: pay a piece of the service feed to the ticketing companies,

1335
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:35,320
Speaker 2: So the ticket companies would get a piece of the

1336
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:37,440
Speaker 2: service fee for the tickets they sold.

1337
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 1: But there's no advance from the other companies to the venue.

1338
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: It's starting now. Yes, there are because your job because

1339
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 2: what really happens now is you want to be the

1340
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 2: You want to get a higher percentage of the allocation.

1341
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 2: So you're now going to start paying to be in

1342
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 2: pollpase position of the good seats and more of them.

1343
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 2: So that's where it's morphine. The venue is now figured out.

1344
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 2: Oh someone will pay me. You know, you can us

1345
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 2: to wake up and say here here ticket companies for free,

1346
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 2: take all my tickets. Good luck. You're going to start going.

1347
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 2: Someone wants the good seats and so we'll pay me

1348
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 2: for it. So we are now competitively doing that as

1349
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 2: an industry, and festivals tend to be more one one company.

1350
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: Let's talk about traditional new building arena meaning they have skyboxes, etc.

1351
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 1: Inside there's always an issue of all the tickets are

1352
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: not on the manifest. You reference this earlier, but can

1353
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: you explain from my audience.

1354
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, generally a venue in America, I'm you know, we're

1355
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:55,919
Speaker 2: going to talk arenas and stadiums. You know their primary

1356
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,679
Speaker 2: business is to sell that sports team season tickets, sweet

1357
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 2: spotship and as you're selling those eighty games whatever the

1358
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: sport is, the sponsorship, you know, your your box and

1359
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:15,360
Speaker 2: your premium seats are only you know, exciting for how

1360
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 2: many of those eighty games. So the best way to

1361
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:23,799
Speaker 2: deliver that box season ticket sponsor is to say, listen,

1362
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 2: spend this much money. You're going to get the season

1363
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 2: tickets for the hockey team. You're also going to get

1364
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 2: it for the thirty five concerts that come to the

1365
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 2: venue a year. You're going to you're going to get

1366
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 2: first assets those tickets. So that's generally every arena is

1367
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:45,839
Speaker 2: going to have some level of a club box system.

1368
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 2: One thousand and two, three thousand tickets that are within

1369
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 2: that venue system sold to their current client base, which

1370
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:56,559
Speaker 2: is a lot of reasons why people say, word its

1371
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 2: scalpers get tickets. That's another big leaky bucket. But that's

1372
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 2: so that's why when you sell, when you put this

1373
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 2: inventory on sale, it's not the fourteen thousand seats in

1374
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 2: that venue and then there's club seats and then there's boxes.

1375
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 2: It's not everything in that venue is going for sale.

1376
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 2: Some of it has already been pre sold or held

1377
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 2: back for customer basis.

1378
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,599
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the secondary market. You reference that. Yes,

1379
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: they do get it from the people who receives and

1380
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 1: ticket holders, To what degree are the bots a problem

1381
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: on the on sale and to what degree can it

1382
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 1: be addressed or possibly eradicated?

1383
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bots are you know, it's an arms race.

1384
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 2: It's it's an impossible mission right now because again as

1385
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 2: an industry, you really only have ticket Master even trying

1386
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 2: to stop them. There's no one else, you know, Access

1387
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 2: isn't spending much money on it, and Seekik and stub

1388
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:07,400
Speaker 2: bubber obviously that's with their businesses. So right now, when again,

1389
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 2: when you have that the famous tailor scrift moment, but

1390
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 2: when you have that level of you know, if you

1391
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 2: looked in the tailor script moment, there you go on

1392
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 2: the dark web right now, you can buy a whole

1393
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,280
Speaker 2: bunch of software to try to hack the latest on sale.

1394
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very organized and unorganized kind of

1395
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 2: underweb of five billion dollars that people are trying to access.

1396
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 2: So there's bots, there's tons of software on the dark

1397
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 2: web to how to break the code, what's the password?

1398
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: That's what happened on Taylor. So you have a lot

1399
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 2: of a lot of global parties trying to break and

1400
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,759
Speaker 2: allocate that on sale to try to get those tickets

1401
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 2: and put them on a secondary platform. The Bought Act

1402
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 2: has never been enforced, which is our big complaint. As

1403
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 2: much as all everyone loved tweeting Taylor Swift and their

1404
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 2: tweet to get a lot of likes, none of them

1405
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,680
Speaker 2: want to address the challenge, right. It's the challenge at

1406
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 2: the end of the day is you know, I use

1407
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 2: the example of when you see those videos of someone

1408
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,719
Speaker 2: breaking in the protest store on Beverly Hills stealing the purses.

1409
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 2: You know, people go, oh, what's going on with the

1410
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 2: Beverly Hills police department. We got to staff up. They

1411
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 2: don't blame product. Well, what happened in Taylor Swift was

1412
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 2: the product story, right is they broke they tried to

1413
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 2: break the doors down. Really does we stopped them. Now,

1414
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,599
Speaker 2: we had to slow the system down, but we kept

1415
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 2: them out and they didn't steal one bag. And we

1416
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:38,879
Speaker 2: still ended up by the end of the day delivering

1417
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 2: two million tickets to Taylor Swift fans. And then you

1418
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 2: have the congressmen putting their hands up, going, oh my god,

1419
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 2: what's going on, And we're going, well, you're doing nothing

1420
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:52,320
Speaker 2: to enforce the Bought Act. We had a bought attack,

1421
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,479
Speaker 2: we had a cyber attack, we did our best to

1422
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 2: fight it off ourselves. We're the protest store, so we're

1423
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 2: now start to enforce the bought police, or you have

1424
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 2: to enforce the plice. So you know, we kind of

1425
01:25:04,479 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 2: get in that circle. Right. If you're gonna let if

1426
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 2: you're gonna let Second run wild like we are today,

1427
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 2: then you've got to just forget about even blaming anybody

1428
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: for what happens on on sales. It's a free for all.

1429
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 2: Or you have to then decide are we going to

1430
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: legislate anything, Are we going to try to limit bots?

1431
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 2: Are we going to try to limit that on sale mess?

1432
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 2: And right now we have it, so right now the

1433
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:26,560
Speaker 2: on sale is going to be a mess. On a

1434
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:32,000
Speaker 2: high profitable show, the bots will end up getting seats

1435
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 2: and they screw up the system and they try to

1436
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 2: break the system for the hours. It's all part of that.

1437
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,839
Speaker 2: All their job is is to figure out give a mess,

1438
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,000
Speaker 2: scare you that they're all sold out fast, right. They

1439
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 2: try to hold tickets forever. That's the big game they

1440
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 2: play is get on the map and hold all the

1441
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 2: dots so you only see a few dots for sale,

1442
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 2: and you'll buy them, or you'll go to stubbub and

1443
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 2: buy them. Then they release the dots later and that's

1444
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:57,599
Speaker 2: why you end up seeing at the end of the day,

1445
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 2: why is there more tickets available? Because the they got

1446
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 2: in and held tickets, you got scared. You went to

1447
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: seat Geek bought tickets for two thousand dollars because you

1448
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 2: thought it was sold. When you come back to ticket

1449
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 2: Master and go, oh, there's tickets available, what happened. So

1450
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 2: it is a big challenge, it's a big mission. Again,

1451
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 2: we haven't been that vocal historically. We've we've stayed on

1452
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,479
Speaker 2: the sidelines and tried to battle it. But now we're

1453
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 2: we're being pretty vocal on the Fair Act and we

1454
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 2: do think that you got to start there. And I

1455
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 2: think there's a bill coming up from NIVA and others,

1456
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 2: so I do think it's time we do. Let we

1457
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:36,679
Speaker 2: do think about legislation around the secondary in some sense,

1458
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 2: as a start we went to all in ticketing and

1459
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: some legislation on secondary. The experience starts to get real,

1460
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 2: bit real different.

1461
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 1: Okay, just going back to the Taylor Swift on sale,

1462
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 1: the perception was every buddy's got an uh got a

1463
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 1: computer at this point, and everyone knows if there's an

1464
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:09,200
Speaker 1: incredible demand. Even with Apple products, the system slows down.

1465
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: Are you saying you intentionally slowed the system down? In

1466
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 1: two you said you made it so the bots didn't

1467
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: get tickets. Is that really what happened with Taylor's with

1468
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 1: the bots really didn't get tickets?

1469
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 2: No, they didn't one hundred percent. Yeah, I mean you know,

1470
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 2: I'm you know again, some some percentage I'm sure slip

1471
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 2: in because bots can dress up as Taylor fans pretty

1472
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 2: good too, But generally on a verified fan percentage wise

1473
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 2: is we do a really good job of knowing the

1474
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 2: difference between a bot and a fan, and the result

1475
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 2: is you end up knowing instantly on what's on sale

1476
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 2: on the secondary is if it's successful, right, if there's

1477
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 2: less inventory on secondary, you absolutely cut out a lot

1478
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:56,920
Speaker 2: of the bots. So no, that was a that that

1479
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,639
Speaker 2: was about not letting the bots in. The bots didn't

1480
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 2: get in for the bad guy didn't get the tickets.

1481
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 2: But unfortunately it was a bad consumer experience for the

1482
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:09,719
Speaker 2: day as the system needed to get needed to operate

1483
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 2: at a slow level to ultimately get those two million

1484
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 2: tickets out. The single biggest ticket day in history was

1485
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: nine hundred thousand tickets. So the mission that day and Tigamaster,

1486
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,760
Speaker 2: we actually sold one million pink tickets that day too.

1487
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 2: So if you want to talk about the load that

1488
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:27,880
Speaker 2: that was able to deliver by the end of the

1489
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 2: day was a huge, huge, deliverable although readily so the

1490
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 2: fans jumped on and we're not happy, but but no,

1491
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 2: we were proud at the end of the day that

1492
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 2: the tickets didn't get the purse, didn't get stolen. We

1493
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 2: were able to limit that and make sure that the

1494
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,599
Speaker 2: tickets got to the hand of the verified fans' hands

1495
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 2: in the end.

1496
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: Okay, go back to Miiley Cyrus. She went on tour

1497
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: this about twelve to fifteen years ago. All the mothers complained, Hey,

1498
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: we can't get tickets. The next tour was totally paperless

1499
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: and didn't sell out instantly. If we go back to

1500
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:14,960
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, the last time she went on tour pre COVID,

1501
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: she did not go clean in every market. So we

1502
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 1: have all these competing interests that changed the perception of

1503
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 1: the fan as to availability. Hey, can we say that

1504
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: some acts want to put on a lot. I want

1505
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 1: to create this demand which will incentivize people to buy

1506
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 1: tickets and two. If another superstar came to you today

1507
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 1: and said, I have thirty stadium dates unless they Taylor

1508
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 1: Swift wanted them all on sale on one day. But

1509
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 1: as the ticketing company, if the act was opened to

1510
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,599
Speaker 1: another take, would you say, let's not do it that way.

1511
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: Let's do it market by mar market or fifty one day,

1512
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:04,040
Speaker 1: fifty the next week.

1513
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the lesson, obviously is we should we

1514
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:15,320
Speaker 2: should spread the load. That's the given. But Bob, I

1515
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 2: want to just state something so we don't get it wrong.

1516
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 2: I am not against secondary, just to be clear where

1517
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,480
Speaker 2: I stand, because you are right. Secondary is an incredible

1518
01:30:25,479 --> 01:30:29,640
Speaker 2: distribution platform right now. Meaning you're right. They buy a

1519
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 2: lot of tickets and they help out a lot of

1520
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 2: on sales, and in the sports business, it's it's very

1521
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 2: valuable because that's how a lot of people sell their

1522
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 2: eighty games. I'm not against I'm not saying that we

1523
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:45,280
Speaker 2: should outlaw secondary, although that would be the simplest way

1524
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:47,440
Speaker 2: to fix it, all right, as Gar said on stage,

1525
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,759
Speaker 2: just outlaw but that's not going to happen in America.

1526
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm fine on the idea that tickets should be exchanged.

1527
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 2: I'm first though, big believer that the artists should have

1528
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:03,760
Speaker 2: the ability to decide. And I know that sounds not

1529
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 2: as simple as it is. But right now, as you said,

1530
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,639
Speaker 2: some artists don't care, some do. Right now, I can't

1531
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, as you know that secondary lobbyists are doing

1532
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:16,799
Speaker 2: any great job state by state, dressed up in fancy

1533
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 2: bills around service fees, to say, don't let transferability get changed,

1534
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 2: right that's the core challenge right now, And they've convinced

1535
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,679
Speaker 2: a lot of people that we must be the bad

1536
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 2: guy because we want to limit transferability and we only

1537
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:32,880
Speaker 2: want the ticket a ticket master and resold a ticket master.

1538
01:31:33,240 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 2: That's not the agenda at all. I believe that the

1539
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 2: PDF that used to be on the airline and used

1540
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,719
Speaker 2: to be you know, in the hotel went digital, and

1541
01:31:43,880 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 2: just like you used to be able to walk up

1542
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 2: on the airline, the digital ticket, when it went to

1543
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 2: PDF went to digital, means you can do things with

1544
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 2: it now, you can have some level of control. And

1545
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 2: I do believe when Pearl jam or an artist says,

1546
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:57,959
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want my secondary ticket resold

1547
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 2: at a premium, execute that or I don't care, you

1548
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 2: know what, I want it sold. I want I only

1549
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:07,519
Speaker 2: want a twenty five percent uplift on the secondary. I'm

1550
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 2: fine if people make money, but I don't want to

1551
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 2: make in three hundred percent. We could deliver that as

1552
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:15,639
Speaker 2: an industry, not just Ticketmaster and or I don't care,

1553
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,680
Speaker 2: exchange it wherever you want free for all, great, then

1554
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,200
Speaker 2: then let the market deliver it. But right now, you

1555
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 2: if we don't stop some of this legislation, the legislation's

1556
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 2: moving towards, you know, this idea that you can never

1557
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 2: have a non transferable ticket rule. And I've never said

1558
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 2: that I want this to happen because I only want

1559
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,559
Speaker 2: the ticket resold. Ticket Master should I'm fine if it's

1560
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 2: resold everywhere. You know. The NFL, I think, is the

1561
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:45,720
Speaker 2: great example on what we delivered on exchange. So the

1562
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:49,760
Speaker 2: NFL used to have a system where we would pay

1563
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 2: the NFL to be the secondary preferred partner, but it

1564
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 2: meant nothing because ticket Master would have secondary tickets, but

1565
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 2: so would everyone else. So I was paying the NFL

1566
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 2: a lot of money, but you could go get all

1567
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 2: your same tickets at subub seat geek. They just didn't

1568
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 2: have the NFL logo or they didn't have a few things.

1569
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 2: So NFL smartly sat with us five years ago and

1570
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 2: said how do we capture it all so it's more organized,

1571
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:20,080
Speaker 2: and we put a system forward that said, listen, we

1572
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:23,559
Speaker 2: should deliver an exchange for you. We should make sure

1573
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:26,959
Speaker 2: that c g Can, Stubbub and others have to abide

1574
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:32,000
Speaker 2: by the exchange rules and then that way they're authorized

1575
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 2: and everyone should be able to sell the tickets. But

1576
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,479
Speaker 2: they're all authorized, they're playing by the NFL rules, and

1577
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,680
Speaker 2: the NFL can take a percentage of those fees. So

1578
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 2: the NFL exchange today is an exchange where if you

1579
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:47,960
Speaker 2: seek Geek, StubHub have been authorized, they pay the NFL

1580
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,760
Speaker 2: an advance versus a percentage. And all of these platforms

1581
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,759
Speaker 2: are authorized NFL resellers now like an authorized Rolex reseller,

1582
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 2: but it means they have to play by the rules.

1583
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 2: They can't spec some they can't put Super Bowl on

1584
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,720
Speaker 2: sale before it's announced. Play let's all play by the

1585
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 2: same rules, so the NFL fan and knows what they're doing.

1586
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,560
Speaker 2: Now there's a couple exchanges like Vivid that don't participate

1587
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 2: in the program and still do it on their own.

1588
01:34:14,120 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 2: But it's a big move forward where you had multiple

1589
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,799
Speaker 2: platforms playing by the same rule addressed by the NFL.

1590
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 2: That's the model I think we should get to, right

1591
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 2: where Access Seak, Geek, stub Hub, Live Nation, Ticketmaster. You know,

1592
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:31,720
Speaker 2: if the artist says this is the rule, I want

1593
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 2: to play a twenty five percent premium on my ticket,

1594
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 2: then we should all all execute that on our digital

1595
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:41,000
Speaker 2: ticket an honor written be authorized to do it. Or

1596
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 2: if there's no exchange, like seat geek did with with

1597
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 2: the cure, great, then let's all none of us got

1598
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 2: to turn on the exchange. None of us made money

1599
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 2: on the secondary business. But that's what the artist wanted.

1600
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 2: We played that way other times artists won't be that

1601
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 2: obsessed with it. Let the market exchange, let the market

1602
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 2: run free. Great. So I'm not against secondary I don't.

1603
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 2: I think we're an American market free enterprise. We're never

1604
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,560
Speaker 2: going to get to a place where you're going to

1605
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 2: ban it. I don't want to pretend we have fake

1606
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:14,799
Speaker 2: rules around bots and it doesn't work. I'd love spec selling.

1607
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:17,800
Speaker 2: I would love all these deceptive websites and all of

1608
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 2: these things to go away and be cleaned up. You

1609
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 2: could get that done by FTC tomorrow. And I do

1610
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 2: I do believe that content should have the right on

1611
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 2: the ticket. Just like the sports teams get to do

1612
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:34,280
Speaker 2: whatever they want. They define the rules of the game

1613
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,600
Speaker 2: for their sports league. I think the artists should be

1614
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 2: able to say this tour, I want it my way,

1615
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:41,800
Speaker 2: this way. If I'm Zach Bryan, I want to do

1616
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 2: it this way, or I don't care, or I do care,

1617
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 2: but right now so I'm a big fan of that.

1618
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 2: I think content and the artists should control and put

1619
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 2: the rules. We have the technology as an industry in

1620
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 2: digital now to be able to do that. So I

1621
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:02,320
Speaker 2: want to state that I'm not an anti secondary I may.

1622
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 1: Want to. I want to weigh in here too, because

1623
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 1: the public does not have clean hands. They want to resell,

1624
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 1: and unfortunately they get caught up in what the secondary

1625
01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: legislation is uh saying. The other thing is if you

1626
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 1: make it too tight, the public isn't happy.

1627
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 2: You're right.

1628
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 1: The public wants to know if I decide that I

1629
01:36:29,560 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 1: want to go to the show tomorrow and there's no

1630
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: limit to what I I will pay, there will be

1631
01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:35,400
Speaker 1: a ticket for me.

1632
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,720
Speaker 2: It's it's you're dead right. It's the challenge of you know,

1633
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,360
Speaker 2: the voices on Twitter versus the reality of the marketplace. Right,

1634
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,400
Speaker 2: and as you think you've written about me. I had

1635
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 2: a fan rate me last week about some Taylor Swift

1636
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 2: show and I'm like, I went onlines to this thoughts.

1637
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 2: Tickets available at a decent price. You can still go

1638
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 2: to see Taylor. So you're right, want it their way

1639
01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:03,360
Speaker 2: when they want it. They've been accustomed to that on

1640
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:08,240
Speaker 2: every other platform and marketplace today, So you're right. It

1641
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 2: is a It is a double edged sword right now

1642
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:14,880
Speaker 2: on how do you how do you try to deliver

1643
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 2: some level of secondary legislation or rules that would simplify

1644
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 2: the system for the on sale really all you're trying

1645
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 2: to solve. But you're right, the free enterprise of the

1646
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 2: American market says, I want to do whatever I own

1647
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 2: that ticket, and I want to do whatever the hell

1648
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 2: I want with it. The challenge we have, though, Bob,

1649
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 2: is it's not you know, I'm not worried about Billy

1650
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 2: that you know, the lobbyists are so great at doing.

1651
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,880
Speaker 2: You know, Billy in Texas just he's going, he's paying

1652
01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 2: for school by selling a couple of tickets. We're not

1653
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 2: worried about him. That's not the problem being created at

1654
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 2: ten am. It's the bots at ten am. That is

1655
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:57,400
Speaker 2: the challenge right now. So if we can address that

1656
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:01,600
Speaker 2: part at least, then the ca acsual secondary seller or

1657
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 2: the seller, we're less worried about him. But we have

1658
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 2: to address the first part on the ten AM free

1659
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:12,800
Speaker 2: for all right now is not being done by you know,

1660
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:15,599
Speaker 2: Billy who wants to sell a couple of tickets. It

1661
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:17,240
Speaker 2: is industrialized.

1662
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,639
Speaker 1: Your CEO of the company, how much of your time

1663
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:27,519
Speaker 1: is dedicated to managing your stock price? And your stock

1664
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:30,519
Speaker 1: price now is a little depressed from where it was.

1665
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 1: To what degree do you pay attention to that? Address that?

1666
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, he listen. I don't want to sound like that

1667
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 2: guy that says I don't ever look at it. Of

1668
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 2: course I do. I've lived long enough now from when

1669
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:49,360
Speaker 2: we went public, I've been two dollars, I've been twenty eight,

1670
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:53,640
Speaker 2: been one hundred. I do say that. You know what

1671
01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:55,880
Speaker 2: what I spend most of my time on is ultimately

1672
01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:59,400
Speaker 2: what matters in any company, whether it's my stock or

1673
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 2: AG's private company or your own, is the business growing.

1674
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:07,679
Speaker 2: How's the fundamentals of the business, Because the stock price

1675
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:11,680
Speaker 2: will ultimately follow performance, and you're always going to have

1676
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:13,599
Speaker 2: when you're as big as we are, and been doing

1677
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 2: it this long, there's going to be moments of you know,

1678
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 2: we'll have a little DJ overhang for a few months

1679
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,800
Speaker 2: or this year. While they will the investors debate what

1680
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 2: that means or doesn't mean. All I really care though,

1681
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 2: I obsess around the performance. That part is what really matters.

1682
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 2: You don't want to be having a depressed stock and

1683
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 2: having a business that isn't growing and healthy and has

1684
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:41,759
Speaker 2: a great future ahead of it. So I'm I'm blown

1685
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 2: away at the resilience of this business, Bob. Coming out

1686
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:47,559
Speaker 2: of COVID, I mean, I'm I get that, you know,

1687
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:49,839
Speaker 2: we had a little bit of a kent up demand,

1688
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:55,959
Speaker 2: but seeing the continuation of it on a global basis,

1689
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:01,480
Speaker 2: it's just just mind blowing. Whether that's truly that experience

1690
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 2: economy on steroids, your point of content being free everywhere

1691
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 2: and driving all these customers, globalization of it overnight where

1692
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 2: you know, we're doing ten sold out river stadiums for

1693
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 2: Coldplay right now. By middle of the road festivals are

1694
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 2: selling out bands more than ever want to have a

1695
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 2: have a great experience. So that's that's the part that

1696
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 2: your stock is. You know, you're kind of in your

1697
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 2: mind debate the stock price is only relevant if you

1698
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 2: if you if you don't think your business is going

1699
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:41,640
Speaker 2: to deliver, then that's a those those those kind of

1700
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 2: companies are in trouble. This is a business where this

1701
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 2: is an industry forget my own agenda, this is an

1702
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 2: indituative for the next five to ten years is going

1703
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:51,960
Speaker 2: to have an incredible boom. Yes, we're going to live

1704
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 2: with some pr realities at the ticket price, and the

1705
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 2: artists are going to start charging a bit more and

1706
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 2: right sizing their product and and and and and taking

1707
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,439
Speaker 2: some of that secondary and there'll be some news around that.

1708
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:05,479
Speaker 2: But this is an industry that is I think still

1709
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:10,200
Speaker 2: massively underpriced, still doesn't do a great job experientially. So

1710
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:13,000
Speaker 2: lots of great venues are going to be built, better venues,

1711
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 2: better experiences, higher end premium experiences. I think there's a

1712
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:22,479
Speaker 2: lot of upsiding upsize in this industry. When I look

1713
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 2: at the sports industry and almost how well they've done.

1714
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 2: Look at the Masters four hundred and ninety dollars per

1715
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 2: head spent that weekend sports has really done a much

1716
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 2: better job at you know, the high end. It's not

1717
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 2: and I mean again it doesn't mean the rich people

1718
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:39,799
Speaker 2: experience the just if I want to go to the Masters,

1719
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 2: or I want to go to the super Bowl, I

1720
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 2: want to go to the NBA All Star Game, or

1721
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 2: or just the new Arena for the end for the

1722
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 2: Chargers game. That's a beautiful arena with a lot of

1723
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:53,800
Speaker 2: great clubs and VIP rooms. We've been you know, I

1724
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 2: think it's an industry. We've been playing backwards, behind on

1725
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:58,280
Speaker 2: the ball and all that. So I think as an industry,

1726
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 2: you're going to see better venues built, better new products

1727
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 2: being built around experiential stuff, more globalization more than ever,

1728
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 2: and more of these great artists that you know, bad

1729
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:15,960
Speaker 2: money and international where it didn't it didn't matter before international.

1730
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:19,960
Speaker 2: I've been in forty countries and for most years there

1731
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:22,200
Speaker 2: was always a tragically hip in that market, but it

1732
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 2: didn't matter. They weren't really going to break. What mattered

1733
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 2: was Springsteen coming to the market, and you just been

1734
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 2: able to see my local markets now where that's that

1735
01:42:32,120 --> 01:42:35,240
Speaker 2: tragically hip does matter now because they get a TikTok

1736
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:38,920
Speaker 2: hit or they get some exposure and everyone knows who

1737
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,599
Speaker 2: they are now they're not they're not limited by that

1738
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:45,320
Speaker 2: kind of domestic media agenda. So I think you got

1739
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:48,759
Speaker 2: a huge supply of artists that are going to surprise

1740
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:53,240
Speaker 2: us from all over the world. So stock price will

1741
01:42:53,280 --> 01:42:57,040
Speaker 2: will ultimately follow the performance of our company. And I

1742
01:42:57,040 --> 01:42:59,000
Speaker 2: think this is an industry worth betting on.

1743
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:03,560
Speaker 1: Okay, you we talk generally about the industry, but specifically

1744
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:07,000
Speaker 1: where are the growth opportunities for Live Nation and Ticketmaster.

1745
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 2: I've said it for a while, you know, it's a

1746
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:13,679
Speaker 2: global is our biggest kind of you know, I've always

1747
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 2: been obsessed with outside of the American growth. We've got

1748
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 2: a great US business. There's great opportunities to still do things,

1749
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:24,320
Speaker 2: but just grow. You know, this business is Latin America

1750
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 2: has just been a huge new growth area. Obviously, we

1751
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:33,040
Speaker 2: bought Osessa in Covid. That was the big promoter we've

1752
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:36,479
Speaker 2: We've obviously can have a bunch of businesses in Brazil.

1753
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 2: We just launched a new festival this week in Brazil

1754
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 2: called the Town from our Rock and Real Company. So

1755
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:46,360
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty thousand tickets on its opening day,

1756
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 2: brand new festival Rock and Rio. So we like international.

1757
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:52,200
Speaker 2: I think you're going to see a lot of a

1758
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:56,080
Speaker 2: lot of expansion in South America Asia. We continue to

1759
01:43:56,080 --> 01:44:00,280
Speaker 2: expand in so globalization there are tons of markets, Bob,

1760
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:04,920
Speaker 2: where there's crappy arenas, there's maybe a festival, there's an

1761
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:11,439
Speaker 2: under probably a crappy ticketing system, maybe no sponsors, you know,

1762
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 2: so kind of professionalize these businesses when you roll in.

1763
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:17,080
Speaker 2: You launch Live Nation Brazil and we just launched our

1764
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:21,760
Speaker 2: Ticketmaster Brazil. We upgraded the festival team there. We're going

1765
01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:24,919
Speaker 2: to build an arena there and a club there. We launched.

1766
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:28,800
Speaker 2: We brought a lot of palooza to those markets. So

1767
01:44:28,840 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 2: we look ran Lollapaluza to India, launching them some new

1768
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 2: businesses in Cape Town and Africa. So all about international

1769
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:41,000
Speaker 2: tons of great growth opportunity. Uh. Number two is we've really,

1770
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:44,720
Speaker 2: through COVID, really put a front foot forward on our

1771
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:49,280
Speaker 2: venue development. And it's something we had not historically been

1772
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 2: as aggressive in on the higher end. We'd been more

1773
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 2: a club theater amphitheater business. And then we stuck our

1774
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 2: toe out in Austin with OVG and and that building

1775
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 2: in Austin, that arena. It's been a home run success.

1776
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:08,759
Speaker 2: So we've been looking at markets where outside of mostly

1777
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:11,400
Speaker 2: outside of America, where you don't have that NBA, NHL

1778
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:15,639
Speaker 2: beautiful arena, we have a. We have an arena now

1779
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:20,800
Speaker 2: in Dublin, one in Copenhagen, Portugal. I've got a few

1780
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:23,719
Speaker 2: others in the pipe with OBG and Latin America and Asia.

1781
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 2: So I think venue development is a is a big opportunity.

1782
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 2: Going back to our math earlier, Bob, you know, it's

1783
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:33,639
Speaker 2: a vertical business, right, So the more the more vertical

1784
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:37,800
Speaker 2: you are with the content and the food and the

1785
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:41,639
Speaker 2: beverage and the peanuts, the better your businesses. So you'll

1786
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:46,120
Speaker 2: see us continually like a Netflix analogy, I guess is

1787
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:48,080
Speaker 2: you want to rent a lot of shows and put

1788
01:45:48,120 --> 01:45:49,439
Speaker 2: them on other venues, but you got to have a

1789
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 2: lot of your home grown brood shows in your own

1790
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:55,559
Speaker 2: venues and festivals where they're higher margin. So we'll keep

1791
01:45:55,680 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 2: expanding our global venue platform, so in ant national global expansion.

1792
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 2: And you know, every time you put a new venue,

1793
01:46:05,680 --> 01:46:08,599
Speaker 2: you open up a bigger sponsorship opportunity and a ticketing

1794
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 2: opportunity in those markets. So I think you'll see for

1795
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:15,559
Speaker 2: the next five years. We told the market, jeez, we

1796
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:18,639
Speaker 2: did about fifty million fans four or five years ago.

1797
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:21,320
Speaker 2: We're over one hundred and twenty five million, meaning they

1798
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:24,640
Speaker 2: went to a live nation show in twenty two, like

1799
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 2: we've now told them, we're we can see one fifty

1800
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:31,320
Speaker 2: to one seventy five over the next five years of

1801
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:33,479
Speaker 2: fans going to our show. So we think the pie

1802
01:46:33,479 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 2: gets bigger globally, our market share just growing. If the

1803
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:41,040
Speaker 2: pie gets bigger, we get bigger and before we have

1804
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:43,920
Speaker 2: to even take more market share in entering new markets

1805
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:46,440
Speaker 2: that we're not in. So we think this is a

1806
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 2: global business that will grow, and we'll obviously grow as

1807
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:51,840
Speaker 2: the tide goes up.

1808
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,920
Speaker 1: Now North America is pretty myopic. They don't really know

1809
01:46:55,960 --> 01:46:59,320
Speaker 1: what's going on in these other countries. What is the

1810
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 1: market and who are the competitors of live Nation around

1811
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:03,799
Speaker 1: the world.

1812
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 2: Well, you have CTS in Germany, they're done a good

1813
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 2: job there, and then most of the markets that you're

1814
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 2: going to go to are going to have let's call

1815
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:17,800
Speaker 2: it the Golden voices, right, they're going to have a

1816
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:21,240
Speaker 2: local and grain promoter. I mean, Japan is a big market,

1817
01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 2: big market, second largest market in the world, and we

1818
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 2: have no market share. They're really small and there's four

1819
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 2: historic promoters there that have owned the market. So you've

1820
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:32,840
Speaker 2: got to figure out how to be in business. Is

1821
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:35,799
Speaker 2: one of those four we've launched a live nation in Japan.

1822
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:39,679
Speaker 2: We're bringing artists there. But generally in a market place

1823
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:45,439
Speaker 2: that matters, there's an established Merrick Liberberg, there's a promoter

1824
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:50,280
Speaker 2: that probably owns the market market and has two other competitors,

1825
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:54,040
Speaker 2: so still a local business where they'd probably be a

1826
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 2: festival and a promoter in those markets with their good

1827
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 2: you know, good scale within their current market. Australia is

1828
01:48:02,360 --> 01:48:04,599
Speaker 2: the same as you know, three or four old time

1829
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,879
Speaker 2: promoters own the market there. We bought one of them, Copple,

1830
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:11,479
Speaker 2: But so you tend to have to go into those

1831
01:48:11,479 --> 01:48:15,400
Speaker 2: markets there's probably one or two historic promoters that own

1832
01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:18,160
Speaker 2: the market. We tend to try to partner with one

1833
01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 2: of them and then help them supercharge their business by

1834
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:25,599
Speaker 2: bringing tours and sponsorship and capital.

1835
01:48:26,760 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 1: So what's a typical day in the life of Michael Rupino?

1836
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 2: Jeez, stressful now thanks to the check my Twitter feed

1837
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 2: and they see who's see who's mad at me that day?

1838
01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:45,759
Speaker 2: But you know, I think it's it's I think listen, let's.

1839
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,720
Speaker 1: Slow down there. You're a CEO. How much time do

1840
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:54,360
Speaker 1: you spend on Twitter? And what's your feeling about musk

1841
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:56,000
Speaker 1: running it and where it's going.

1842
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:02,519
Speaker 2: Well, that's a loaded one in Twitter. You know, it's

1843
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:05,680
Speaker 2: an addiction you hate, right because you know, you know,

1844
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:07,360
Speaker 2: you know, they don't go on there and say thank

1845
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:11,840
Speaker 2: so thankful, I got great tickets today. So it's it's

1846
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,320
Speaker 2: only the pissed off that are going to go hit

1847
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:17,840
Speaker 2: you up. But I do think it, you know, it

1848
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:20,720
Speaker 2: is a you know, as Kara Swisher and Prophergy who

1849
01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 2: we both like talk about, you know, it's still a

1850
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:26,280
Speaker 2: damn good lightning rod to figure out what's going on

1851
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 2: in the world, right. I mean, you still go to

1852
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 2: that I go to that trending Explore page and just

1853
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:34,240
Speaker 2: quickly go what's going on? And I still think it

1854
01:49:34,320 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 2: is an incredible lightning rod and a quick way to

1855
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:40,920
Speaker 2: figure out whatever the drama of the day is going

1856
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 2: on in the world. So I think I think he's

1857
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:48,919
Speaker 2: you know, I think he's a you know, obviously a genius.

1858
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 2: But I can't imagine why he wanted this this mission.

1859
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,000
Speaker 2: This is a this is not a fruitful mission to

1860
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:59,560
Speaker 2: come back to. But I think so, you know, I

1861
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 2: was my job, I would say, you're the reality is

1862
01:50:03,120 --> 01:50:07,040
Speaker 2: the one thing that has changed is in the world

1863
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:10,080
Speaker 2: it's much more complex to run a comp business today.

1864
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of voices right every day,

1865
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 2: So I think that's a new part of the business.

1866
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:16,400
Speaker 2: You have to figure you have to spend time on it.

1867
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 2: You didn't before. You know, mostly it's going to spend

1868
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:22,440
Speaker 2: your time on your strategy and your business and your divisions.

1869
01:50:22,160 --> 01:50:25,200
Speaker 2: And we're we've got a credible global team and that's

1870
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 2: where I spend most of my day dealing with my

1871
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:31,719
Speaker 2: team's internal and figuring out what talent we're buying and

1872
01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:36,280
Speaker 2: what models and venues and strategy we're pursuing. And I

1873
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:38,639
Speaker 2: think that just right there.

1874
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 1: To what degree do you delegate? To what degree do

1875
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:42,200
Speaker 1: you get your hands dirty?

1876
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:46,479
Speaker 2: Oh? My team, would you know? They know I'm still nuts.

1877
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:49,040
Speaker 2: This is this is my baby. I'm I'm night and

1878
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:52,439
Speaker 2: day here, I'm three feet and thirty thousand feet. I

1879
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:55,760
Speaker 2: you know, I really look at running a business and

1880
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:58,719
Speaker 2: I love it still. You know, one of the realities

1881
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 2: of being a CEO is you know, I always say

1882
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:02,840
Speaker 2: there's kind of three things you can spend time on,

1883
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 2: your family, your business, and a lot of the external stuff.

1884
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:10,880
Speaker 2: And the external stuff is gratifying for for for a

1885
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:16,120
Speaker 2: lot of people, but you can't do all three something breaks.

1886
01:51:16,680 --> 01:51:20,160
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty obsessed with my three boys. It's making

1887
01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:22,880
Speaker 2: sure i'm a good dad and snowboarding and all the

1888
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:26,200
Speaker 2: things you and I have talked about. And then two,

1889
01:51:26,280 --> 01:51:29,360
Speaker 2: as i'm internal focused, I really believe it's it's my

1890
01:51:29,479 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 2: team needs me. So I'm you know, every Tuesday at

1891
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,160
Speaker 2: two and a half hours my concert team, and Wednesday

1892
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 2: is ticketmaster for two hours, sponsorship Thursday and venues and

1893
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 2: so I go. I'm I'm a I'm an active parent

1894
01:51:43,880 --> 01:51:48,240
Speaker 2: making sure all these divisions have access to me, help

1895
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:52,280
Speaker 2: them cut through bureaucracy, make good decisions, deal with drama.

1896
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,679
Speaker 2: So I'm pretty. I'm pretty. I go deep and stay

1897
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:59,320
Speaker 2: stay very engaged. And as you know one of your

1898
01:51:59,320 --> 01:52:02,479
Speaker 2: famous lines about the bunker, I'm an introvert, so I

1899
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 2: don't spend a lot of time on the external. I

1900
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 2: figured that that all comes with good results and all that.

1901
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:11,479
Speaker 2: You know, the good strategy and good results take care

1902
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:15,880
Speaker 2: of the profile and the other things. But so that's

1903
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:16,599
Speaker 2: kind of my day.

1904
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,400
Speaker 1: Are you reachable twenty four to seven? Are you working

1905
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:21,400
Speaker 1: twenty four seven?

1906
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, that's the that's the curse for sure. Artists.

1907
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:30,520
Speaker 2: Middle of the night, whoever it is, I'm always available, Yeah, absolutely,

1908
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's listen to a gift where we run

1909
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:37,400
Speaker 2: an incredible fun industry. I came from nothing and to

1910
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:38,840
Speaker 2: be able to sit here and work with some of

1911
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:41,920
Speaker 2: these great artists and have access and be part of

1912
01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:46,839
Speaker 2: their lives and help them deliver it's a pleasure.

1913
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:52,720
Speaker 1: And why are Canadians so prominent and play above their

1914
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:54,479
Speaker 1: weight in the concert industry?

1915
01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:57,400
Speaker 2: I don't, oh, you know, I do think this one,

1916
01:52:57,560 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 2: you know, is so when I was in Toronto, I

1917
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,160
Speaker 2: thought Michael Cole and this idea of touring was an

1918
01:53:04,240 --> 01:53:09,000
Speaker 2: everywhere experience. I didn't really understand that that was such

1919
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:16,360
Speaker 2: a uniqueness that you bought multiple So when when when

1920
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:18,400
Speaker 2: Steve Herman I started a core audience, and you know,

1921
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:20,839
Speaker 2: we bought tours across the country about the Rod Stewart

1922
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:24,400
Speaker 2: tour for the country. You bought fourteen dates and it

1923
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:26,679
Speaker 2: was you know, huge money for us at that time.

1924
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 2: I remember we remember we bought Janet Jackson from Jack

1925
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:32,200
Speaker 2: remember Jack Usick? What was his name, the guy they

1926
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:33,719
Speaker 2: went to jail jack?

1927
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:37,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Jack Utsick? Yeah yeah, oh man, he was

1928
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 1: a character.

1929
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:40,479
Speaker 2: What a character? Hit off and we bought Janet Jackson

1930
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:44,120
Speaker 2: lost four hundred thousand dollars and we went to Mel's

1931
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:45,760
Speaker 2: diner that night, thought how are we going to pay

1932
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:48,320
Speaker 2: for this? So when you buy tours it was exception.

1933
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:53,479
Speaker 2: Only when I moved to America and then Europe, I

1934
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 2: really realized that the promoter, as rich as he was

1935
01:53:57,200 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 2: in his great he never left town like Don Law

1936
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:04,360
Speaker 2: made a fortune living in Boston or and whoever they Larry,

1937
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:08,559
Speaker 2: Larry Maggott and Philly Merrick Leberberg in Germany. So their market,

1938
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 2: they were just buying these you know, they were buying

1939
01:54:10,640 --> 01:54:15,640
Speaker 2: their market. So this idea that you know that I

1940
01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:18,640
Speaker 2: was that that Michael and Canada you were buying tours.

1941
01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 2: It just was so foreign to these people because you

1942
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:23,840
Speaker 2: just you never crossed the lines here as you know,

1943
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:26,639
Speaker 2: it was that it was the mafia, right you had Philly,

1944
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:30,360
Speaker 2: you didn't buy a New Jersey, and so I do

1945
01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 2: think out of necessity in Canada because you didn't buy Toronto,

1946
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:36,520
Speaker 2: you bought the world. Michael broke that model for me

1947
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:39,840
Speaker 2: and Cole and Jerry Baird and Omar and myself and

1948
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 2: Steve Herman. We just that's the model we thought was right.

1949
01:54:43,440 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 2: So I think that did excel us because I think

1950
01:54:46,240 --> 01:54:49,920
Speaker 2: it when I was sitting in the room, I was

1951
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 2: able to talk about a bit more complexity than just

1952
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:56,760
Speaker 2: one market. And and and in Canada, uh, you know,

1953
01:54:56,800 --> 01:55:00,160
Speaker 2: you had Quebec, you had some different geographies. You know,

1954
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,720
Speaker 2: you had the second largest landmass in the world, so

1955
01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:05,400
Speaker 2: it wasn't like they were close markets. So you were

1956
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:09,920
Speaker 2: mine a gena cross country business. And I think that

1957
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:13,200
Speaker 2: was really really in the concert world that was so decentralized.

1958
01:55:13,240 --> 01:55:16,960
Speaker 2: Still that that and still is still there's still a

1959
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 2: fight for for for the local promoters, you know, versus

1960
01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:24,000
Speaker 2: the tour. Still that battle exists. So I think I

1961
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 2: think that kind of just unlocked why the concert business

1962
01:55:27,480 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 2: moved fast with with Michael and that CPI model. When

1963
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 2: he broke that model in the Stones and kind of

1964
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 2: pushed that forward, we all looked at it and thought

1965
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:40,400
Speaker 2: that was business as usual. I didn't realize till I

1966
01:55:40,520 --> 01:55:43,920
Speaker 2: moved here how much they hated us and in terms

1967
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 2: of Michael and that and that model and in the

1968
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:50,120
Speaker 2: Stones and that history of breaking that local model. So

1969
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:51,800
Speaker 2: I guess that that was a bit of it.

1970
01:55:52,440 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 1: Needless to say, to be an artist, people have no

1971
01:55:54,640 --> 01:56:00,080
Speaker 1: idea what a backbreaking job it is. So to what

1972
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:04,839
Speaker 1: degree are residencies like Harry styles And to what degree

1973
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:08,640
Speaker 1: is Vegas where the act, where the audience comes to

1974
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:11,840
Speaker 1: the act. Is that just going to be a stasis thing?

1975
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:12,760
Speaker 1: Is that going to grow?

1976
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:16,280
Speaker 2: Well? As a side note, you just hit on one

1977
01:56:16,280 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 2: thing on going back to pricing, you're dead right these artists.

1978
01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:22,240
Speaker 2: First of all, to go on the road right now

1979
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:26,760
Speaker 2: is expensive, and to run a venue is expensive. But

1980
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,880
Speaker 2: as you know, everything is increased dramatically. I mean every

1981
01:56:30,120 --> 01:56:32,440
Speaker 2: costs went up. If you look at the ticket price

1982
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:37,480
Speaker 2: increases from twenty nineteen to today, know they've gone up

1983
01:56:37,560 --> 01:56:43,640
Speaker 2: nineteen percent, but so did labor, rentals, lighting, transportation, and gas. Right,

1984
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:49,080
Speaker 2: so the costs are expensive for these artists. They're all in.

1985
01:56:49,280 --> 01:56:52,040
Speaker 2: They all want to have the greatest production arms race,

1986
01:56:52,120 --> 01:56:57,720
Speaker 2: so their production costs are intense. Now you can see

1987
01:56:57,720 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 2: Taylor's show or Beyonce's, but Dona is what they put

1988
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 2: on that stage. It's crazy expensive. So you are right

1989
01:57:05,480 --> 01:57:08,960
Speaker 2: there are I think Vegas has unlocked this idea that

1990
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:11,440
Speaker 2: I could I could have a bit of a life

1991
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:15,720
Speaker 2: and still deliver an incredible gross So I think Adele

1992
01:57:16,120 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 2: really really took it to the next level of being

1993
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:22,040
Speaker 2: a modern artist that could have just done a stadium

1994
01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:25,440
Speaker 2: tour and decided to sit in Vegas for a while.

1995
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 2: So I think you're going to see, you know, the

1996
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:34,560
Speaker 2: Harry style fifteen fifteen venue, fifteen amphitheaters or a fifteen arenas.

1997
01:57:35,480 --> 01:57:38,760
Speaker 2: But I would back up and say, every artist that

1998
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:42,520
Speaker 2: you talk to knows that ultimately, when they get to

1999
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 2: the market, they make lifelong fans. You don't make a

2000
01:57:46,000 --> 01:57:49,120
Speaker 2: lifelong fan on Spotify. You make it when you show

2001
01:57:49,200 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 2: up at the city and they see you in stage

2002
01:57:51,240 --> 01:57:54,320
Speaker 2: and live. So every artist will still talk to me

2003
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:57,160
Speaker 2: about they got to go play the world like they

2004
01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:59,480
Speaker 2: get that model now. I think once you've done it

2005
01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:02,560
Speaker 2: a few times, yes, then you can start saying do

2006
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:05,280
Speaker 2: I need to go back to South America or can

2007
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:08,200
Speaker 2: I I'm going to do thirty dates and I'm going

2008
01:58:08,280 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 2: to pick five cities. So I think you're going to

2009
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,560
Speaker 2: see a bit of those models where the artists will say,

2010
01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 2: you know what, I'll play five markets. I'll play London

2011
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 2: and you know, New York and Miami and Brazil and

2012
01:58:24,200 --> 01:58:26,920
Speaker 2: try to do more residency that way. So I do

2013
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:31,400
Speaker 2: think the cost of production, transportation and the wear and tear.

2014
01:58:32,840 --> 01:58:34,560
Speaker 2: I think you'll start to see some of those models

2015
01:58:34,600 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 2: emerge where they won't do the one hundred dates, so

2016
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:41,080
Speaker 2: they'll do sixty, but they'll be in five cities, not

2017
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:44,160
Speaker 2: fifty cities. But I would say it all depends on

2018
01:58:44,200 --> 01:58:47,280
Speaker 2: your life cycle, right. Every artist knows Coldplay knows right

2019
01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:50,840
Speaker 2: now that they're making worldwide, global fans for life. They'll

2020
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:54,000
Speaker 2: run around the world. Maybe there's a point where they say, Okay,

2021
01:58:54,480 --> 01:58:57,360
Speaker 2: we won't run as far now that we've done it,

2022
01:58:57,400 --> 01:58:59,120
Speaker 2: but they all know they got to go. They all

2023
01:58:59,280 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 2: everyone in the touring business, and you know, it has

2024
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 2: the stories of the artists that didn't do it and

2025
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:08,920
Speaker 2: why they're not today able to be that global star.

2026
01:59:09,160 --> 01:59:12,360
Speaker 2: And then there's the Metallica model and lars on why

2027
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 2: they're selling and then their brand is so big forever,

2028
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:18,800
Speaker 2: or the U two model, the Stones model. So most

2029
01:59:18,840 --> 01:59:21,480
Speaker 2: people look at that model and go, Okay, if I'm

2030
01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:24,280
Speaker 2: gonna have longevity, if I'm going to make money forever

2031
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:28,120
Speaker 2: and be a global brand, I got to go actually

2032
01:59:28,200 --> 01:59:32,480
Speaker 2: do those one hundred date global tours. But I think

2033
01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 2: you're right, there'll be artists now that once you've done

2034
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:37,400
Speaker 2: it three or four times start to say, can I

2035
01:59:37,440 --> 01:59:41,560
Speaker 2: still make money doing that sitting down in a city,

2036
01:59:42,440 --> 01:59:43,920
Speaker 2: and that's definitely happening.

2037
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:46,960
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the health of the festival mark? You talked

2038
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 1: about that great on sale in Brazil. So we had

2039
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:55,640
Speaker 1: a couple of huge festivals Coachella, Lallapalooza, bon Aru, and

2040
01:59:55,680 --> 01:59:58,920
Speaker 1: then there were a million imitators. What's the health of

2041
01:59:58,960 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 1: the market now?

2042
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:03,120
Speaker 2: You know, if you'd asked me a few years ago,

2043
02:00:03,160 --> 02:00:07,200
Speaker 2: I might have said I was worried that there was

2044
02:00:07,480 --> 02:00:10,080
Speaker 2: the headline, kind of the big ones that made it,

2045
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:14,520
Speaker 2: and there were a lot in the middle trying to

2046
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 2: be big but didn't have soul. What I see today is,

2047
02:00:20,280 --> 02:00:22,680
Speaker 2: you know, if you are the if you've crossed the

2048
02:00:22,680 --> 02:00:29,080
Speaker 2: line like Coachella obviously has, or Lollapalooza, Blastonbury, E d C.

2049
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:33,720
Speaker 2: They seem to be passage to rite. So they there

2050
02:00:33,880 --> 02:00:38,080
Speaker 2: there's and there's Rock and Rio and Brazil and Rector

2051
02:00:38,120 --> 02:00:40,000
Speaker 2: in Belgium. There tends to be one of those in

2052
02:00:40,240 --> 02:00:43,720
Speaker 2: every market and they're reading leads. They're fine. I think

2053
02:00:43,760 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 2: where the market got smart and we're seeing successes. Oh

2054
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:52,240
Speaker 2: quickly the market whoever you are, realized you can't just

2055
02:00:52,440 --> 02:00:58,040
Speaker 2: rent this field and put Drake, Billy, Joel and little

2056
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:00,560
Speaker 2: weighing on like that kind of idea that there was

2057
02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 2: that was happening everywhere the festivals had, you know, wherever

2058
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:07,640
Speaker 2: they were, we had some, everyone had them. And I

2059
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:10,400
Speaker 2: think quickly those those got killed. Quickly you you realize

2060
02:01:10,440 --> 02:01:13,560
Speaker 2: you lost three million bucks who you didn't stand for anything.

2061
02:01:15,280 --> 02:01:17,640
Speaker 2: And and then what happened, though I'm seeing now is

2062
02:01:18,200 --> 02:01:20,760
Speaker 2: they quickly went to these one and two days, these

2063
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:26,080
Speaker 2: nicher ideas that have more focus, and we're having a

2064
02:01:26,280 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 2: really really big success with these this year. You know

2065
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:32,400
Speaker 2: when when we were young, last year in Vegas and

2066
02:01:32,440 --> 02:01:35,600
Speaker 2: again this year one day, two day festival, but really

2067
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:38,960
Speaker 2: meant to be a one day tim Sweewood's got a few.

2068
02:01:38,960 --> 02:01:41,760
Speaker 2: We got this year, C and C. We just did

2069
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,360
Speaker 2: one on the weekend. Charlie Walker texted me, I didn't

2070
02:01:44,360 --> 02:01:46,960
Speaker 2: even know we're doing in Texas a one day. So

2071
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:50,720
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing is either you were already made it

2072
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:54,280
Speaker 2: to the big big league and you're established and you

2073
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:56,400
Speaker 2: just got to keep reinventing that brand and do what

2074
02:01:56,440 --> 02:01:59,320
Speaker 2: you do at the top end, or you're probably playing

2075
02:01:59,360 --> 02:02:04,040
Speaker 2: for a local or a niche idea that bottle Rock,

2076
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:07,120
Speaker 2: for example, where or the market or the idea is

2077
02:02:07,280 --> 02:02:11,160
Speaker 2: niche enough to be a better experience, But it's probably

2078
02:02:11,160 --> 02:02:14,040
Speaker 2: a one day, maybe it's two on a on a

2079
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:16,480
Speaker 2: good day. But so I think you've seen a lot

2080
02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:19,520
Speaker 2: of those pop up now where the risk is less.

2081
02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:22,600
Speaker 2: You're not betting on a three day, fourteen million dollar

2082
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:27,360
Speaker 2: all in idea that's that's this multi genre festival. I

2083
02:02:27,360 --> 02:02:30,600
Speaker 2: think those are dyed. You've got to now be a

2084
02:02:30,760 --> 02:02:35,920
Speaker 2: more single shot festival that stands for something. And that

2085
02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:37,920
Speaker 2: idea that festivals, you know, that old idea that you

2086
02:02:37,920 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 2: could you know, put in the middle of anywhere. It

2087
02:02:40,480 --> 02:02:43,360
Speaker 2: doesn't work anymore. Like you've got to put that festival

2088
02:02:43,360 --> 02:02:46,040
Speaker 2: where you and I want to go on Saturday anyways.

2089
02:02:46,600 --> 02:02:48,680
Speaker 2: So why it works in Vegas, why it works in

2090
02:02:49,320 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 2: Palm Springs. But you can't put them in the middle

2091
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:55,080
Speaker 2: of nowhere anymore. People want to want to want to

2092
02:02:55,120 --> 02:02:58,120
Speaker 2: go to either a destination or a town or a

2093
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:04,760
Speaker 2: location where it's already got built in cool factor or destination.

2094
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:08,200
Speaker 2: So so I think it's actually in a good space

2095
02:03:08,720 --> 02:03:10,480
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of we had a lot

2096
02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:12,600
Speaker 2: in the middle. We had some of those in the

2097
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:15,360
Speaker 2: middle where you're bent and big. You're trying to be

2098
02:03:15,440 --> 02:03:18,440
Speaker 2: the next Coachella. You're never going to get there. You're

2099
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:20,200
Speaker 2: trying to be the next Law of Palooza. So you're

2100
02:03:20,200 --> 02:03:22,760
Speaker 2: almost stuck in the middle. You don't stand for any

2101
02:03:22,800 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 2: you know, I always joke with my team, you know,

2102
02:03:24,920 --> 02:03:28,240
Speaker 2: a bad logo, a Ferris Will, an artist village and

2103
02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 2: free headliners and they think they have magic, right, and

2104
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:35,400
Speaker 2: it was formula, but it wasn't standing for anything. So

2105
02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:40,080
Speaker 2: we're seeing in the UK here Europe, if you're starting

2106
02:03:40,200 --> 02:03:44,320
Speaker 2: smaller and simpler, you're you're probably going to have success.

2107
02:03:44,480 --> 02:03:47,200
Speaker 2: And you're also in our view you can start five

2108
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:48,920
Speaker 2: or six of those a year and if two don't

2109
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:53,000
Speaker 2: make it, you're not You're not going down for ten millions.

2110
02:03:53,160 --> 02:03:56,080
Speaker 2: They're simpler to start more and if they got a

2111
02:03:56,120 --> 02:03:58,840
Speaker 2: flash like whence we were young. When we were young

2112
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 2: was on you. We put one day on an epssee

2113
02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:03,960
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty thousand tickets. If you hit a

2114
02:04:03,960 --> 02:04:06,680
Speaker 2: little mark an idea that can run, then you can

2115
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:09,480
Speaker 2: run with it. But you don't start in a multi

2116
02:04:09,520 --> 02:04:12,560
Speaker 2: genre big idea. So top Pen seems to be doing

2117
02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:15,560
Speaker 2: we Coachella did well We're having a record year in Lollapalooza,

2118
02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:19,720
Speaker 2: Bonna rue is roared back, so I'm thrilled. I mean,

2119
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:23,160
Speaker 2: the lawas outside of America are doing really well. Rock

2120
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 2: and rear, so the big boys and kind of the

2121
02:04:26,320 --> 02:04:29,120
Speaker 2: established ones seem to be doing really well this year.

2122
02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:34,120
Speaker 2: And I think if you're starting something smaller and niche,

2123
02:04:34,120 --> 02:04:37,240
Speaker 2: you're probably going to be Okay, what we miss?

2124
02:04:37,320 --> 02:04:39,240
Speaker 1: What do you have to tell my audience that we

2125
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,160
Speaker 1: didn't cover? Well?

2126
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:43,680
Speaker 2: I think we talked. I mean, listen, I think the

2127
02:04:43,760 --> 02:04:48,520
Speaker 2: idea that you know, it's as we're not a perfect business,

2128
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:52,720
Speaker 2: but I think the industry of the venues and the

2129
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:55,240
Speaker 2: cost that they're incurring, I don't think, you know, I

2130
02:04:55,240 --> 02:04:57,480
Speaker 2: think people just have not that everyone's going to understand

2131
02:04:57,560 --> 02:04:59,680
Speaker 2: or have a sympathy. But being a guy that owns

2132
02:04:59,680 --> 02:05:01,720
Speaker 2: a lot of venues, I looked at my venues this morning.

2133
02:05:02,240 --> 02:05:05,400
Speaker 2: You know, my amphitheaters. We you and I have talked

2134
02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:08,760
Speaker 2: about this before. My Amphitheater's lost one hundred and forty

2135
02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 2: three million dollars at the door. So you wonder why

2136
02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:15,320
Speaker 2: I have a twenty dollars service fee right That means

2137
02:05:15,360 --> 02:05:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm paying not just the one hundred percent of the door.

2138
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:20,360
Speaker 2: I'm paying one hundred and something percent of the door, right,

2139
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:21,920
Speaker 2: So you got to pay for that somehow, right, So

2140
02:05:22,920 --> 02:05:25,520
Speaker 2: you got to pay for the perky and the booze

2141
02:05:25,520 --> 02:05:28,440
Speaker 2: that you know, the food. So this is an industry

2142
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:30,600
Speaker 2: where your capex is going up, your costs are going up,

2143
02:05:30,600 --> 02:05:33,720
Speaker 2: and your artists costs are going up. So guess what

2144
02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:35,440
Speaker 2: that means. The fees are going to go up or

2145
02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:40,320
Speaker 2: revenue has to be generated to cover the costs. None

2146
02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:43,520
Speaker 2: of them are none of them are are evil in themselves.

2147
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:46,000
Speaker 2: They're all part of the plot that says, to put

2148
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:48,720
Speaker 2: a great show on in a great venue with the

2149
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:51,520
Speaker 2: right staff and the and the insurance and the capex

2150
02:05:51,560 --> 02:05:53,600
Speaker 2: and all the things that come with putting a show on,

2151
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:56,720
Speaker 2: it costs this much. And I think we're finally as

2152
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,360
Speaker 2: an industry ready. I think we will move towards that

2153
02:05:59,480 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 2: all in because my my point is the artists should

2154
02:06:02,640 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 2: take all the money they deserve it, they should charge more,

2155
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:09,040
Speaker 2: and the venues deserve to figure out how to pay

2156
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:13,200
Speaker 2: for those venues and put that show on. So I

2157
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:16,080
Speaker 2: just think as an industry, we've got to be presented

2158
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:18,080
Speaker 2: it in a way that we can no longer proceed

2159
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:22,400
Speaker 2: with because it's not defendable the way it's broken out today.

2160
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:28,040
Speaker 2: So I think that's you know, you've been always it's

2161
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:30,600
Speaker 2: a complex problem. I mean, I meet with you meet

2162
02:06:30,600 --> 02:06:34,120
Speaker 2: with a Senator, a congressman. They look at you and like,

2163
02:06:34,160 --> 02:06:36,040
Speaker 2: oh my god, the service fee, and you try to

2164
02:06:36,040 --> 02:06:38,160
Speaker 2: explain why the service fee at this, you know, and

2165
02:06:38,160 --> 02:06:40,120
Speaker 2: then you talk about the hockey game down the street

2166
02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:42,760
Speaker 2: and why the service fee and who the scalper is

2167
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:45,400
Speaker 2: and why the scalper. I mean, it's a complex industry,

2168
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:51,600
Speaker 2: hard to win any public opinion polls on explaining it.

2169
02:06:52,120 --> 02:06:55,800
Speaker 2: So it's a challenge in that front. But I do think,

2170
02:06:56,080 --> 02:06:58,440
Speaker 2: you know, we talk about the crisis in the last

2171
02:06:58,520 --> 02:07:02,000
Speaker 2: year has been our opportunity to actually start talking about

2172
02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:04,400
Speaker 2: it because I think I think will be better for

2173
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:07,360
Speaker 2: it in the end, whether it's all in pricing the fair,

2174
02:07:07,880 --> 02:07:12,240
Speaker 2: some legislation will happen around secondary. There's enough movement now

2175
02:07:12,280 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 2: around that I think there'll be something that'll come around

2176
02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:19,640
Speaker 2: all in and or secondary. So I think that's a

2177
02:07:19,640 --> 02:07:23,120
Speaker 2: step forward because it's a sideshow to the actual great

2178
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:24,640
Speaker 2: growth that the industry has.

2179
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:32,680
Speaker 1: And what do you look for in hiring somebody, you know, it's.

2180
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:38,360
Speaker 2: It's always a challenger. Your batting rate is fifty sixty percent,

2181
02:07:39,440 --> 02:07:43,360
Speaker 2: it's usually the the IQ is easily, it's usually I'm

2182
02:07:43,400 --> 02:07:46,280
Speaker 2: looking for EQ. Right. A lot of smart, smart people

2183
02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:49,120
Speaker 2: can get things done. But this is a rare industry

2184
02:07:49,560 --> 02:07:52,400
Speaker 2: where you can. You can come from Harvard, it don't matter.

2185
02:07:52,760 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 2: Can you actually get things done with people? You know?

2186
02:07:58,320 --> 02:08:00,800
Speaker 2: I joke that I, you know, I went to university

2187
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:03,040
Speaker 2: and got an accounting a psychology degree, and I need

2188
02:08:03,040 --> 02:08:06,960
Speaker 2: them both every day here because this is not about.

2189
02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:10,000
Speaker 2: This isn't whether I have great strategy. I tomorrow could

2190
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:13,760
Speaker 2: write down the April fruls idea you had, which was fabulous.

2191
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:15,520
Speaker 2: I could give you the thirteen things we should do

2192
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:18,920
Speaker 2: tomorrow to make this a better industry. It's irrelevant because

2193
02:08:18,920 --> 02:08:20,760
Speaker 2: I got get a lot. I got to herd a

2194
02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:23,240
Speaker 2: lot of cats. We got to move a whole industry

2195
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:26,480
Speaker 2: and a lot of agendas at odds, and we got

2196
02:08:26,480 --> 02:08:29,880
Speaker 2: to find like common ground that we can move it

2197
02:08:29,960 --> 02:08:34,160
Speaker 2: somewhere forward and move the business forward. So we get

2198
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:36,760
Speaker 2: lots you know, we'll hire them in sponsorship sometime and

2199
02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:39,360
Speaker 2: they'll come from somewhere and they have these great ideas

2200
02:08:39,400 --> 02:08:40,720
Speaker 2: and you know if we could just get Beyonce it

2201
02:08:41,080 --> 02:08:44,200
Speaker 2: on stage to do its like, Okay, that's not going

2202
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:47,080
Speaker 2: to work. So you know, it's a it's an industry

2203
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:50,800
Speaker 2: where you know, you got to understand and bring people

2204
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:53,200
Speaker 2: in that definitely have the IQ. But can they manage

2205
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,360
Speaker 2: understand our industry well enough to make sure we can

2206
02:08:56,440 --> 02:09:00,000
Speaker 2: move the people, manage the egos involved, put your egos

2207
02:09:00,400 --> 02:09:02,160
Speaker 2: and hopefully try to get something done.

2208
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:07,760
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in your mid fifties. How long are you

2209
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:10,800
Speaker 1: going to do this? This is a business where people

2210
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:13,840
Speaker 1: tend to work in touring until they drop, unlike on

2211
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:18,000
Speaker 1: the record side. And as we've discussed before, you know

2212
02:09:18,080 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 1: Liberty has a position in Live Nation. Greg mcfay is

2213
02:09:23,000 --> 02:09:26,760
Speaker 1: active as they have in Serious they have other interests.

2214
02:09:27,440 --> 02:09:31,520
Speaker 1: Could you ever be tempted to take a different job,

2215
02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:32,480
Speaker 1: another job?

2216
02:09:34,640 --> 02:09:37,400
Speaker 2: Well, so you know Greg does read your emails because

2217
02:09:37,400 --> 02:09:40,200
Speaker 2: he forwarded me or April Foles. So I didn't He said,

2218
02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:42,640
Speaker 2: I didn't think I had any See I must have power.

2219
02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:45,640
Speaker 2: Now Liberty has been a Greg and John have been

2220
02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:52,440
Speaker 2: incredible shareholders. They've been fabulous shareholders today. No, I think

2221
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:57,120
Speaker 2: this is listen. I think the you got to be

2222
02:09:57,120 --> 02:09:59,200
Speaker 2: self aware as the CEOs to trust me, I don't

2223
02:09:59,200 --> 02:10:02,360
Speaker 2: take anything for grant in it. I know I'm not

2224
02:10:02,400 --> 02:10:06,200
Speaker 2: on the golf course. I get. I I don't do

2225
02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 2: this for money. I do it because I love it.

2226
02:10:09,440 --> 02:10:12,840
Speaker 2: But I do think I think we have another chapter left.

2227
02:10:12,960 --> 02:10:15,800
Speaker 2: So I think there's I think there's another another move

2228
02:10:15,840 --> 02:10:18,440
Speaker 2: and another chapter left. We you know, when I launched

2229
02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:20,720
Speaker 2: this company, we're a few hundred million dollars market cap.

2230
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:24,840
Speaker 2: We we started to build, we went global. Ticketmaster was

2231
02:10:24,880 --> 02:10:29,440
Speaker 2: a huge moment to differentiate our business. I think I

2232
02:10:29,480 --> 02:10:32,080
Speaker 2: got a few other moves in the in the playbook

2233
02:10:32,120 --> 02:10:34,520
Speaker 2: still that can make us a different business. So I'd

2234
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:36,760
Speaker 2: like I'd like to I'd like to, you know, this

2235
02:10:36,840 --> 02:10:39,480
Speaker 2: new five year deal I have, I think we got

2236
02:10:39,480 --> 02:10:42,160
Speaker 2: some some moves left in the tank in this five years.

2237
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:47,280
Speaker 2: I'm certainly not going to go run another business at

2238
02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:53,120
Speaker 2: this level, you know. I you know, I guess never

2239
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:56,920
Speaker 2: as long and I love Disney and other companies, But

2240
02:10:56,960 --> 02:10:59,480
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm I'm I think I got I

2241
02:10:59,480 --> 02:11:01,720
Speaker 2: think I got a trick or two left here that

2242
02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:06,520
Speaker 2: we can unlock and make this an exciting place. And

2243
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:09,200
Speaker 2: I think that's the way I finished the game.

2244
02:11:10,760 --> 02:11:13,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Michael, thanks so much for taking the time to

2245
02:11:13,760 --> 02:11:16,400
Speaker 1: speak to my audience. You've been very open and honest

2246
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:18,680
Speaker 1: and forthcoming, and I thank you for that.

2247
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:20,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bob, much appreciated.

2248
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:24,600
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left Sets