WEBVTT - "Crazy Cubans"

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<v Speaker 1>So I was at Partner College. Eleian happened in November,

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<v Speaker 1>right Thanksgiving. Then there's winter break, and when I went

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<v Speaker 1>back to New York, there's a massive uproar of more

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<v Speaker 1>of these crazy Miami Cubans.

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<v Speaker 2>Vanessa Garcia was born and raised in Miami. She grew

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<v Speaker 2>up hearing stories about her Cuban family, including family members

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<v Speaker 2>who were imprisoned by the dictatorship in Cuba Aspresos Politico's

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<v Speaker 2>political prisoners. One of her grandfathers, she tells us, fled three.

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<v Speaker 1>Dictatorships, Franco Hitler and then Fidel.

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<v Speaker 2>This family history has deeply marked her, and so has

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<v Speaker 2>her upbringing as a Miami Cuban, because Miami is unique.

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<v Speaker 1>It's another world to the rest of the country.

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<v Speaker 2>The most Cuban place in the United States, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>She was used to the dominance of Spanish, of given

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<v Speaker 2>culture and politics and everything that came with it until

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<v Speaker 2>she went away to college in New York, and the

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<v Speaker 2>alien story magnified the differences.

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<v Speaker 1>When I laned in New York City, when I land

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<v Speaker 1>on campus, essentially, I very vividly remember going into an

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<v Speaker 1>office hoer with one of my favorite professors and she

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<v Speaker 1>looking at me and saying, you're so smart and your

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<v Speaker 1>Cuban American, you please explain these crazy Cubans to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, Oh, this is a very different perspective.

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<v Speaker 2>Crazy cue ones. Vanessa was confronted with a narrative about

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<v Speaker 2>her community that was new and unexpected, and she wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>the only one. There was a sense that Elian changed

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<v Speaker 2>how we were seen and maybe even how some of

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<v Speaker 2>us saw else. I am Pennileetera Metis and this is

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<v Speaker 2>a special bonus episode of Chess, Peace, Deli and Gonzalez Story,

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<v Speaker 2>a production of Utuda Studios in partnership with Iheart's Michael

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<v Speaker 2>Tuda podcast network. When we were reporting for this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>we heard this term of the crazy Cubans come up,

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<v Speaker 2>and it made us curious to explore the idea more.

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<v Speaker 3>Were these crazy people that don't want the kid to

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<v Speaker 3>go home?

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<v Speaker 1>Who are these crazy Miami Cubans.

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<v Speaker 2>On this episode, we're going to unpack this perception about

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<v Speaker 2>Miami Cubans and the idea that the Cuban American community

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<v Speaker 2>lost control of the narrative during the eliansaga. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to dig into this alone. I'm here with

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<v Speaker 2>my back a little loving producer Tasha Sandol, who you

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<v Speaker 2>know from the series from episode seven when we met

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<v Speaker 2>with her adorable a Wili Daladi. Hi, Tasha, Hi, Penny.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm excited to be here and excited to get to

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<v Speaker 4>air some of this interview tape that we really enjoyed

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<v Speaker 4>and really want to share with our listeners, but that

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<v Speaker 4>we didn't get a chance to include in our earlier episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>Me too, I'm so happy to be recording this with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just so sad that we don't have patelitos today.

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<v Speaker 2>But before we hear more from these interviews, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to take some time to really talk about why we

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<v Speaker 2>are focusing on this topic.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I agree, Penny. I think for me, I've just

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<v Speaker 4>been really interested in the fact that there was this

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<v Speaker 4>kind of us against them dynamic that seemed to be

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<v Speaker 4>growing between Miami Cubans and the rest of the country.

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<v Speaker 4>So some people outside the South Florida context didn't seem

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<v Speaker 4>to understand the Cuban American context, and I think that

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<v Speaker 4>that lack of understanding seemed to lead to judgment and resentment.

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<v Speaker 4>They just didn't understand what the fuss was all about.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it was like several things happening at

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<v Speaker 2>the same time. On one hand, you had these very

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<v Speaker 2>strong feelings of anger and resentment from Cubans in Miami,

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<v Speaker 2>and something else that was happening was about the way

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<v Speaker 2>that Miami relatives were presented in the media because they

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<v Speaker 2>were on the news all the time.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think I started questioning how Cuban Americans were

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<v Speaker 4>perceived from the outside only when I first left Florida,

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<v Speaker 4>so much like Vanessa, I was surprised, but it didn't

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<v Speaker 4>happen to me when I went away to college. It

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<v Speaker 4>actually happened right after college, when I started traveling abroad

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<v Speaker 4>in places like Europe and going back to Columbia, where

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<v Speaker 4>my dad's family is from. And that's when I started

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<v Speaker 4>realizing that people sometimes seem suspicious when I told them

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<v Speaker 4>about my mom's side and told them that my mom's

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<v Speaker 4>side was Cuban American. It's almost like they wanted to

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<v Speaker 4>know more in order to understand what kinds of Cuban

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<v Speaker 4>Americans my grandparents were, and kind of once it came

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<v Speaker 4>out they were or what we would call golden exiles,

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<v Speaker 4>so folks who left the very very beginning the first

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<v Speaker 4>few years of the revolution that suspicion kind of became confirmed,

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<v Speaker 4>and there was a sense that those particular Cuban Americans

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<v Speaker 4>had a negative connotation. Maybe for the people I was

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<v Speaker 4>talking to. It seemed like there was this idea that

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<v Speaker 4>everyone who left early on, you know, was the wealthy elite,

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<v Speaker 4>and they didn't care about the revolution or didn't care

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<v Speaker 4>about equalizing society. So after that, you know, I started

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<v Speaker 4>to gain this new political awareness and understanding of Cuban

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<v Speaker 4>Americans and how they're perceived from the outside, but also

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<v Speaker 4>how it's really complicated baggage for them as well. And

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<v Speaker 4>I think that in this reporting, coming across this narrative

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<v Speaker 4>of crazy Cubans did set off some alarm bells for me.

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<v Speaker 4>I have to say, it made me feel defensive.

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<v Speaker 2>Really defensive.

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<v Speaker 4>Why because, as you heard in episode seven, I'm in

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<v Speaker 4>some ways part of that community through my mom and

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<v Speaker 4>of course through myo Elita, And so yeah, make me

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<v Speaker 4>defensive because I love Miami and Cuban Miami and Miami

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<v Speaker 4>Cubans like my family, and I'm just not a fan

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<v Speaker 4>of this idea that the community had been branded crazy

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<v Speaker 4>in this narrative during and after Alien.

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<v Speaker 2>And I understand I have some of the same reaction

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<v Speaker 2>because also most of my family lives in Miami.

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<v Speaker 4>And so from what Vanessa and Joe Garcia told us,

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<v Speaker 4>I think that the Alian case really marked the image

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<v Speaker 4>of the Miami Cuban community and how they would be

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<v Speaker 4>viewed during the aftermath. Joe Garcia, who we'll hear from

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<v Speaker 4>in a bit, is a Cuban American politician.

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<v Speaker 2>So really, on both sides of the Florida Strait, the

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<v Speaker 2>Cuban community and the Kuban government were pushing their own

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<v Speaker 2>narrative because both sides were saying, we love Cuba, we

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<v Speaker 2>are real paid to it. The only problem is that

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<v Speaker 2>loving Cuba meant something completely different from Lavana and from Miami.

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<v Speaker 2>So another thing we heard in our reporting is that

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<v Speaker 2>in Miami, the Quan Americans lost the narrative. You might

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<v Speaker 2>remember this, Tasha.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it was one of the things that

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<v Speaker 4>really most struck me. That joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Arcia said he was living in tallahasse which is the

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<v Speaker 2>capital of Florida, when the Lean saga started, so he

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<v Speaker 2>told us what it was like.

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<v Speaker 5>This is one of those events where you didn't have

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<v Speaker 5>to be a scientist to understand. You understood that boy

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<v Speaker 5>his father, I got it. Who are these crazy people

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<v Speaker 5>that don't want the kid to go home? Likewise, for

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<v Speaker 5>a Cuban, you didn't have to explain it. They understood.

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<v Speaker 5>Of course he should be with his family because he

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<v Speaker 5>escaped Cuba. It makes all the sense in Orland, why

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<v Speaker 5>would you send the boy back if the mother died

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<v Speaker 5>trying to get him out. You don't even have to

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<v Speaker 5>have that conversation. People immediately understood, and so you could appine.

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<v Speaker 5>And in this case, it's a very simple case.

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<v Speaker 3>That people understood.

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<v Speaker 5>When I was the chairman of the Florida Public Service Commission,

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<v Speaker 5>these events happened. I wasn't here. I lived Monday through

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<v Speaker 5>Friday in Tallahassee, and so you know, I was watching

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<v Speaker 5>Alian surrounded by communities that weren't my community. The same

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<v Speaker 5>sort of narrative that I've just tried on you. When

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<v Speaker 5>I tried it on them, they'd say, hey, ridiculous. A

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<v Speaker 5>boy should be with his father. And I remember talking

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<v Speaker 5>to some of the leaders that I knew around Elean

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<v Speaker 5>and said, listen, this story ain't playing here. My career

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<v Speaker 5>was after Alian, which was, you know, the government took Alian.

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<v Speaker 5>I was called by the kimin American National Foundation and

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<v Speaker 5>made executive directors. They realized that it been a disaster

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<v Speaker 5>pr wise, but I had been asked to become executive

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<v Speaker 5>director of this very powerful group, and we organized other

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<v Speaker 5>powerful groups around.

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<v Speaker 3>When I was hired to do this job. Part of the.

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<v Speaker 5>Reason that they brought me in is that they lost

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<v Speaker 5>control of the narrative. One of the things we did

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<v Speaker 5>is we did a nationwide poll about Cuban Americans, right,

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<v Speaker 5>and the perception people had of Cuban Americans. It was

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<v Speaker 5>a fascinating thing. First of all, in South Florida, the

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<v Speaker 5>polling numbers were horrible, Like, if you knew us, you

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<v Speaker 5>hated us.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 5>The overcrowding in Miami, it's the Cuban's fault. Bad economy,

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<v Speaker 5>it's the Cuban's fault. Global warming, it was the Cuban's fault. Right,

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<v Speaker 5>And we did a concentric circle diagram. The closer you

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<v Speaker 5>got to Miami, the more they hated Cubans. The further

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<v Speaker 5>way you got, the more they liked us. So to

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<v Speaker 5>know us was to hate us, right if you had

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<v Speaker 5>actually interacted with us. Correct, Like if you were close

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<v Speaker 5>to the eye of the hurricane, it wasn't that pretty

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<v Speaker 5>to look at right.

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<v Speaker 6>And did you get in that poll the sense of

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<v Speaker 6>why they were considering Cubans were the worst of the worst.

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<v Speaker 5>I think there was so little common ground when you

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<v Speaker 5>come at things from an archetypal point of view, from

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<v Speaker 5>a very basic understanding of the family. Of course, a

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<v Speaker 5>boy should be with his father. I will say that

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<v Speaker 5>to you, the boy should be with his father. However,

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<v Speaker 5>if that boy happens to be in a precarious situation,

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<v Speaker 5>you shouldn't, right. So the equivalent for Cuban Americans, if

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<v Speaker 5>the father of that boy was in a jail, you

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<v Speaker 5>wouldn't say, let's take the boy and put him in

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<v Speaker 5>the jail with his dad.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the closest of kin.

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<v Speaker 6>Which goes back to my question of what does free

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<v Speaker 6>Elian means in this case.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it depends where you're standing, and it depends who

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<v Speaker 3>you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Joe has a unique perspective because as a Kiban American

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<v Speaker 2>he really understood what Cubans in Miami were feeling during

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<v Speaker 2>the Earlyan case. But as a politician in Lahassee, he

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<v Speaker 2>also understood the optics and how mainstream America was seeing

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<v Speaker 2>Cuban Americans by the way that poll. Joe mentions was

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<v Speaker 2>never published. It was an internal poll the organization did

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<v Speaker 2>to gauge public opinion after the Ilian case. And at

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<v Speaker 2>some point I was also thinking about my dad. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>my dad got to Miami in nineteen ninety eight, so

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<v Speaker 2>just a year before the Liang case started. I asked

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<v Speaker 2>him why he was not there also protesting in front

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<v Speaker 2>of Aliant's house. And he said, first that he was

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<v Speaker 2>working hard and trying to bring his family to the US.

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<v Speaker 2>But also he was in the middle, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>he was part of the community. But at the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>he understood that the father wanted to be with Alian

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<v Speaker 2>because at the same time he was separated from me

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<v Speaker 2>and from my brother. So he understood the Liian's father's

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<v Speaker 2>right to be with his son. But he totally got

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<v Speaker 2>why Cubans in Miami were so upset and so frustrated

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<v Speaker 2>with the US government because from their perspective, the US

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<v Speaker 2>government was citing with Filas and as we have said

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<v Speaker 2>in this series, that's something you never ever ever do

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<v Speaker 2>if you're.

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<v Speaker 4>In Miami, and Panny, that makes me curious, how is

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<v Speaker 4>Miami represented by the Cuban government. Did you grow up

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<v Speaker 4>thinking of Miami or having a sense of Miami Cubans.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what I remember is this clear perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>obsessive narrative. I remember it from the years I lived

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<v Speaker 2>in Cuba. I remember I was a child, and I

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<v Speaker 2>left Cuba when I was a teenager because the Cuban

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<v Speaker 2>government was day in and day out promoting this idea

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<v Speaker 2>that Cubans in Miami were all these hateful people that

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to destroy the revolution, that all they wanted was

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<v Speaker 2>to record their properties and their money back in Cuba.

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<v Speaker 2>And also the Cuban government have been calling these Cubans

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<v Speaker 2>living in Miami as gusanos. So worms, you know this, Tasha.

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<v Speaker 2>So in Cuba, the Cubans of Miami are treated as

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<v Speaker 2>undesirable and on patriotic.

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<v Speaker 4>For sure, Gusanos is pretty intense language. So, Panny, do

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<v Speaker 4>you think that this perception of crazy Cubans in Miami

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<v Speaker 4>started with Alian or did it start after maybe when

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<v Speaker 4>Florida really went red, or was it even before that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that definitely the Lian case was a big

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<v Speaker 2>inflection point, and both Vanessa and Joe said when we

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<v Speaker 2>interview them that Cubans in Miami lost the narrative during

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<v Speaker 2>the Alian case.

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I think that Elian was a formative moment for anyone

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.560
<v Speaker 1>that was Cuban, Cuban American, or American born Cuban like

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>myself in Miami or outside of Miami, or Cuban American

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.839
<v Speaker 1>around the States. So two things were happening at the

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>same time, which was an introduction to how I think

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.960
<v Speaker 1>the perspective of Cuban Americans was changing because of Elian,

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 1>but also what people thought of Cuban Americans outside of Miami,

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 1>because Miami is a bubble to a certain degree, and

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.800
<v Speaker 1>you leave the city and you start to get a

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:36.240
<v Speaker 1>different perspective. This is a very Cuban city. It's more

0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>than that now, much more in a great way. But

0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 1>it's a bubble in the sense that people know the story.

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 1>They know the story deeply of Cuba and the United States,

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 1>of what it means to be Cuban, what it means

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 1>to be Cuban American. All these sort of gradations.

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 6>And going back to this moment when you are told

0:14:55.600 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 6>by this professor that you'll help them understand this crazy Cubans,

0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 6>how did you deal with it?

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I remember saying it's complicated.

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:09.880
<v Speaker 2>We keep saying that forever.

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 1>But the biggest thing for me was the was the

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 1>piercing of the crazy, which was like, oh, we've already

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.520
<v Speaker 1>lost this, the narrative, the narrative because if she's asking

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>me the question in that way, we've lost the story.

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 1>We've completely lost it. And the Cuban government won, which

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.360
<v Speaker 1>is what I felt completely in that office.

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 6>How did you feel about that realization?

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Like a giant weight. It felt like like, now, what

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 1>what do you do with this? How do you get

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>out from under this rock? People were like, let me

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 1>scream through it, but you can't. The only thing you

0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 1>can do is lift it.

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.000
<v Speaker 2>So what I hear is that Vanessa understood that the

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 2>outsider's perspective dominated the media, and then she got a

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.440
<v Speaker 2>real taste of that perspective from her college professor in

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:35.840
<v Speaker 2>New York. I think she felt there was nothing she

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 2>could do about it, and I understand why that's frustrating,

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 2>because it's really hard to undo perceptions and stereotypes. And

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 2>all of this makes me think about Cuba because at

0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 2>the same time, in Cuba, there was so much propaganda

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>that Miami Cubans were selfish because they wanted to keep

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Elean no matter what. But we also knew that if

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Elean came back to Cuba. That would be very hard

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.439
<v Speaker 2>for his father to free himself from the pressure of

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.440
<v Speaker 2>you Castro. So this perception of crazy Cubans is happening

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.360
<v Speaker 2>on both sides of the Floody Straits.

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 4>And I have to say, really, one of the reasons

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 4>I was excited to do this project is because I

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:18.640
<v Speaker 4>wanted to hear this Cuban perspective from Newpenny.

0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Ah, that's very cute, thank you.

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.920
<v Speaker 4>Honestly, you're one of the very few people I've met

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 4>in my life who grew up in Cuba and is

0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 4>under like seventy years old.

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's because of most of the Miami Cubans you

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 2>know are from your family, right right.

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.600
<v Speaker 4>They all left really early on, in the early sixties

0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 4>or at latest in the seventies, and so you know,

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.680
<v Speaker 4>they've all been in Miami for a really long time,

0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.719
<v Speaker 4>and I've never met anyone closer to my age who

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.399
<v Speaker 4>really spent their formative years in Cuba. You know, I

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 4>think in doing this project, I've realized that even though

0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 4>our perspectives are totally different around Cuba, we have a

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 4>lot more in common than we have difference.

0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Like our love for past delitos, for example now, but

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 2>really we're Cuban, but we grew up thinking of Cuba

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.360
<v Speaker 2>very differently exactly.

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.320
<v Speaker 4>For example, I grew up thinking of Cuba as this

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 4>kind of untouchable place where you absolutely couldn't go, at

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.399
<v Speaker 4>least when I was little, and you grew up living

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 4>on the island. But telling the story has been exploring

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 4>about what it means to be Cuban and how expansive

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 4>that definition can be, which I think that you and

0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 4>I can kind of embody.

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Also to me, Tasha, it's been amazing to learn more

0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 2>from your perspective because most of the family that I

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.400
<v Speaker 2>have in Miami, they came to Miami in the nineties,

0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.640
<v Speaker 2>so they don't have that perspective of the early waves

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 2>of migrants. So I have learned a lot from the

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.439
<v Speaker 2>perspective that you have, that your mom has, and of

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>course the perspective from Yurauelita.

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm really grateful that through reporting the story, you know,

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 4>we were both able to learn so much and get

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 4>to some of this nuanced together from one side to

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.880
<v Speaker 4>the other. And I think we were both really struck

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.399
<v Speaker 4>by these lines, these specific ideas of the narrative of

0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.160
<v Speaker 4>crazy Cubans and of losing the narrative, and I'm really

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 4>glad that we were able to kind of dig into

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.280
<v Speaker 4>it a little bit more of this episode me too.

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Tasha for joining me on this bonus episode,

0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.720
<v Speaker 2>and also thank you for all the past delitos that

0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.399
<v Speaker 2>you shared with me what we were reputing this podcast.

0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>We don't know if the Elian case changed the perception

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of Cutane Americans forever, but we know that it made

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.679
<v Speaker 2>up clear mark and that at least for a while,

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.840
<v Speaker 2>the community lost control of the story it was telling

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.520
<v Speaker 2>about itself. So where do we go from here? We

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.399
<v Speaker 2>keep having this conversation, We keep meeting like I'm doing

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.320
<v Speaker 2>here with Tasha, like we did with Vanessa and Joe.

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.720
<v Speaker 2>We come to a story with different perspectives and we

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:19.560
<v Speaker 2>try to make meaning together. An Penny Leea Midez see

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 2>you in the next week's bonus episode.

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 7>My mother left, always thinking that Paulie's father, once he

0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 7>saw that she had left, would change his mind and

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.000
<v Speaker 7>let his son leave. But that just never happened. So

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 7>basically that was the beginning of this very painful family separation.

0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:43.360
<v Speaker 2>We'll be sharing an extended interview with Cuban American historian

0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Ala Ferrer, who will tell us about her own family's

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:51.159
<v Speaker 2>complicated separation and how it informed her view on Elian's story.

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Now Veemo Hencient Episolio. See you in the next episode.

0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:07.399
<v Speaker 7>Jess Peace.

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.760
<v Speaker 2>The Lean Gonzalez Story is a production of Utudo Studios

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.320
<v Speaker 2>in partnership with Iheartz Michael Tura Podcast Network. This show

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 2>is written and reported by me Penni Lei Ramirez, with

0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Maria Garcia, Nicole Rothwell, and Tasha Sandowa. Our editor is

0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Maria Garcia, additional editing by Marlon Bishop. Our senior producer

0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 2>is Nicole Rothwell. Our associate producers are Tasha Sandoval and

0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Elisabeth Loental Torres, and our intern is Evelin Fajardo Alvarez.

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Our senior production manager is Jessica Elis, with production supports

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 2>from Nancy Trujillo, Francis Poon and Lodi mar Marquez. Mixing

0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 2>by Stephanie Levo, Julia Caruso, j J. Carubin and gabrie Lewis.

0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Scoring and musical creation by Jacob Rossadi and Stephanie Levo

0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 2>and credits music from Los Ace geos Or. Executive producers

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 2>are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia, who Tua Media was

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:10.960
<v Speaker 2>founded by Maria Novosa. For more podcasts, listen to the

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 2>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.359
<v Speaker 2>favorite shows. A Penillea Mirez, see you in the next

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>episode Novemoes and episode