WEBVTT - Former NBA GM Ryan McDonough Joins Trysta 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.680 Welcoming into this show. We've got our guy, Ryan McDonough. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.119 We're gonna be asking him some of the inside baseball 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.000 questions on the draft. I have not spoken ever to Ryan, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.320 so I'm happy to meet you. I'm super excited. Former 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:22.680 GM the Phoenix Suns spent a decade working for the 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.840 Boston Celtics, where he was everything from an international scout 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.639 to assistant GM to my man Danny Trader, Danny Ainge. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.960 Currently our Odyssey Basketball inside. That's where I'm from, Odyssey 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:39.040 Basketball Insider cannot wait to ask him a ton of questions. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:40.600 How are you doing, sir. 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.560 Hey, Hey, Tristan, I'm doing well. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.720 I want to because there's a lot of people doing mox. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:50.519 I'm not really too interested in debating who's gonna go 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.519 where or who's the best fit wear. I'm really interested 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:58.080 in the process of drafting and just kind of how 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.279 it all works from someone who's been there and has 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.160 been there with a bunch of different teams. First and foremost, 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:11.520 there's this big debate about team needs versus best available. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.720 What is your stance on that and is that a 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.520 trend that sort of changes over time? And what are 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.920 some examples of ways that door one works and doesn't work, 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:24.640 and door two works and doesn't work. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:27.200 Yeah, really good question. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.280 I think the first thing you have to ask as 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:34.319 a franchise is if player X in the draft is better, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.560 And he probably won't be better immediately, obviously these things 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.840 take some time. But if he has a chance to 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.319 be better than anybody on our roster, we should probably 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.920 draft player X because we can move the other guys 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:46.600 on the roster, you know, if he's that good, if 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.320 he has a chance to be a special, transcendent player. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:51.880 Now, now there are some arguments the other way. 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.280 I mean, one of the things that we get criticized for, 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.080 and I certainly had some involvement with was deandret and 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.880 with the number one pick in Phoenix. Thought process at 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:02.560 the time organizationally right or wrong. And keep in mind 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.680 I was fired the following preseason, so there may have 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:05.520 been some disagreement. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:06.280 But was it. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.040 We had a young backcourt star and Devin Booker offensively gifted, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.320 you know, struggled a little bit defensively and rebounding. He 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.760 certainly improved in those areas, but the thought process was 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.400 devon in the backcourt eight and in the front court. 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.720 Mckail Bridges, who we later acquired on the wing. You know, 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.520 people can nitpick, and they certainly have about the Luca 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.760 donsas versus eight and pick and I understand that and 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.800 I take responsibility for that. Obviously, the Suns were in 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.840 the finals a year ago and won sixty four games. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.680 So that's why so hard Tristan. 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:37.880 That's where I think people on the fan side or 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.720 even some of the media side, don't realize as much 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.240 you were picking for a team. You know, you're not 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.239 just picking in a vacuum individually, and when people will 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.000 go back and do redrafts and things like that, the 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.640 context and the roster at the time is important because 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.480 you know, the reality is once we get in October 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.440 and training camp starts, you have to hand the coach 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.120 the ball and say, figure out how to play these 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.720 guys and put together a functional team. So you know, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.640 generally speaking, it's most talented player you'd want that, but 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.360 there is some context and nuanced to that as well. 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.399 I wasn't planning on asking you this, but I think 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.320 one of the greatest steals in that draft was mckil bridges. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.640 Can you can you give me just a little bit 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.240 of insight into how that all went down, if outside 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.000 of what's already kind of been written about. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.680 Yeah, it was a really unusual deal, tristed just because 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.080 Philadelphia seventy six ers, who had the tenth pick, drafted 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:27.760 Bridges with the intention of keeping him. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.239 Yeah, I was there for that was at Barclays. 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.760 Okay, and you know mckhill's history and what it was 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.640 like at Barclay's. His mother worked for the franchise. He 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.280 won multiple national championships of Villanova. He's a Philadelphia kid, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.560 and it seems on paper, at least to me, like 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.240 a very good fit between Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.880 But Philly was big game hunting, I think, and we 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.520 had a draft pick, a future first round pick that 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.360 we got in twenty fifteen for Goran Dragics from Miami 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.800 that was unprotected, and then we had the sixteenth pick 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.880 in the twenty eighteen draft as well. So it's a 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.920 bit unusual because I called Philly's front office we were 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.120 chasing picks up in that range. Because one of the 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.600 things that I think people don't talk about enough Christa 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.280 is there are tiers in gaps in the draft. And 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.480 what I mean by that is you know, the value 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:12.720 of each player to the next is not always even right. 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.920 Sometimes it is close. Sometimes there's a gap between players. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.560 Sometimes there's a gap between tiers of players. So that's 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.760 what teams do. It's there's like most teams use a 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.440 tiering system rather than let's just rank them one to six, year, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.240 one hundred or whatever. So with us, we felt the 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.240 group of players in that late lottery, you know, say 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.000 eight to fourteen range, we're going to be significantly better 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:34.680 than who was available or we thought was going to 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.040 be avaible to sixteen. So anyways, so long story, relatively short. 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.960 Philly drafted Bridges. I was on the phone with them, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:42.680 say is there anything we can do? They said no 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.400 at the time, and said, okay, we're coming back at sixteen. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.240 We like Bridges a lot we'd give you some value. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.640 We'd give you sixteen plus and we can discuss what 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.000 the plus is. But are there players you know, you 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.120 guys are potentially interested in and they said yeah, one 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.240 in particular. Obviously they didn't tell us who it was. 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.400 So fast forward to fourteen fifteen, picking that range, we 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.480 re engage with them and Zyer Smith, the Ford out 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.920 of Texas Tech was still on the board who they liked. Obviously, 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.159 Zayer's had some injury issues and other health issues that 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:15.040 have derailed his career, but that plus the future Miami pick, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.240 that was how that deal got done. And this is 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.040 funny in hindsight, especially given how well mckel's done and 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.160 how well the team has done Trista. But I wasn't 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.440 really looking forward to calling the kid his mom who 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.680 were excited being in Philly. His mom works for the franchise, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.400 and saying, I know you thought you were going to 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.039 stay at home, but what do you think about heading 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.040 a couple thousand miles to the southwest and Phoenix. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:40.000 That's wild. Another thing I think that people are interested 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.280 in is and I guess the context around it are 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:48.360 players like Shaden Sharp players like Jaden Hardy. So two 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.920 different paths, right. Both of those guys were consensus lottery picks. 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.640 Shaden doesn't end up playing a minute for Kentucky. Jaden 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.520 Hardy goes to the G League. Shayden Sharp's kind of 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.880 like a while card in terms of his draft hasn't 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.520 hasn't fell. I mean, we are not really sure. Maybe 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.560 he's top five, maybe he slips to mid maybe post lottery, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.240 but Jayden Harney seems to have fallen off a cliff 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.760 in terms of consensus draft picks. Should players that are 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:21.359 already deemed Patrick Baldwin Junior is another one deemed to 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.800 be a lottery pick. Is there some sort of debate 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.200 now in terms of whether they should actually play in 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.359 college or go to the G League or go the 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:31.280 Shade and Sharp path. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.040 Well, I speak from a former executive's perspective. I think 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.400 they should play somewhere. I think it's one thing to 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.760 try to manipulate draft stock and you know, potentially hide, 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:44.200 you know, things like that. 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:45.839 But at the end of the day, is you know Tristan. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:47.599 In fact, in just a couple of weeks, they're going 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.400 to be off on a court in Las Vegas with 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.400 ESPN and NBA TV and all these groups there, and 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.719 they're going to have to perform. So I think, especially 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.159 as a teenager, taking a year off and not playing 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:57.520 is not something I would advise. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:06:58.240 Now. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.919 I really like what the NBA has done with the 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.719 JU League Ignite. That was one of my criticisms of 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.040 the league or things I think the league could have 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.120 done better earlier instead of letting And I'm going back 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.040 aways here, but instead of letting Brandon Jennings go play 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.720 in Italy and Emmanuel Moodier go play in China. Recently, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.960 LaMelo Ball go play in Australia. You know a lot 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.000 of us executives in the league were saying, why don't 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.600 we keep these guys here? It's better from a fan 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.880 and marketing perspective, it's better for the players developmentally, it's 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.520 easier to recruit and evaluate them, and this is what 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.520 the players want. Those guys that you know, eighteen nineteen 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.760 years old didn't want to go live overseas by themselves 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.800 and things like that. So I bring it up. I 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:37.360 think the league's done a terrific job with the G 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.920 League Ignite. Just look at last year's draft. I believe 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.360 they had two of the top seven books. Jalen Green, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.119 who I think is going to be a star among 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.679 the scoring leaders in the NBA someday. And then Jonathan 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.760 kaminga who you know, talented young developmental player for the Warriors, 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.840 got some run in the playoffs on the NBA champion 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.840 and this year Dyson Daniels will be another lottery pick. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.240 So I think it's you know, it's good to have options, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.040 you know, shading sharp situation was unique. And the final 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.320 I guess point I'll make on Shade and trist is 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.160 that he is the kind of player as an executive 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:08.920 that keeps you up at night. And what I mean 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.160 by that is it scares you to take him because 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.040 you don't have a body of work, and it also 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.960 scares you to pass on him because of the talent. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:16.360 You know he's talented enough. 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.880 His highlight film is incredible that that kid can end 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:20.680 up being the best pick in the draft. But that's 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.680 why it's scary and hard to be an executive at 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.960 this point of be impossible to say either way where 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:25.760 his career ends up. 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.800 Yeah, and Drey and I would imagine that as a 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.199 GM job, security makes that decision making tree a little 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:37.280 bit more complex. I'm curious, why do some guys skyrocket 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.120 after the tournament has has been over and we've gotten 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:47.320 through the combine, we've gotten through team workouts, so it 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.800 seems like nothing's really happened, right, and you got take 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.480 a guy like Mathrin Matherin was like in the ten 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.480 that's like eleven to fifteen range and then all of 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:02.119 a sudden, now even though he looked awesome at Arizona, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.839 went to the tournament, looked good there too, to go 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.320 why do some guys fall significantly? And why does some 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:09.480 guys skyrocket? 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.040 Really good question, and that's one of the things where 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.680 as evaluators you have to remind yourself and keep going 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.439 back to the film because see, you know, at the 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:18.760 end of the day, the games are a little bit 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.520 different college or international versus the NBA, but it's still 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.840 five on five basketball. And after the guy season's over, 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.959 he's not really playing five on five basketball, he's doing 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.840 the individually. You know, they do a little five on 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.200 five there. But the recent trend, which is unfortunate as 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.200 the top players don't play there in the five on 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.000 five action, and then the workouts a lot of them, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.880 especially for the top prospects now are individual one on zero. 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.880 So that's one of the things as an executive you 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.080 have to manage expectations. Frankly, it can be really dangerous, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.360 especially when the people who don't do this year round, 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.199 like your coaches, your head coach in particular, if he 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.960 has a strong voice, strong personality, and your owner, especially 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.400 see a guy in an individual workout or you know, 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.640 as you know, trust to anybody in one or workout 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.080 can look great or look horrible. It's not really reflective 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:04.920 of who they are. But they can just have a 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.400 great day or horrible day. That's just you know, human nature. 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:09.760 So that's why you have to rely on your process. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:11.679 That's why you have to go back to the film 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.200 and watch them playing games. And then also you know, 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.040 bake in some of the offseason stuff with the combine 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.040 with the individual workouts and hope you make the right decision. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.079 But to answer your question, that is why. And I 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.880 always can't get a kick out of when somebody says 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.800 a guy's stock is rising or falling or this or that. Well, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.800 in reality, it hasn't gone anywhere. Nothing has happened till 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.120 tomorrow night. It's just you know, you know, media articles 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.440 and things like that seem to manipulate players up and down. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.440 The teams just set their boards probably today as far 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.360 as who they're going to draft, so and anything that 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.920 happened before today is I don't say irrelevant, but I 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.160 think you know, it gets more traction on the media 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.040 side than it does when you're working for a team. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:51.240 Wait, so the draft board gets created only the day 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:52.280 before the draft. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:54.480 Usually do it pretty late. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:56.520 You know, probably the week of the draft, I'd be 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.840 surprised if any teams did it well before this week 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.240 because as you look at on the league, teams are 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.840 still working out players as recently as you know, Monday 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.840 or Tuesday. I don't think we have any you know, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.880 on Wednesdays, we sit here about forty eight hours see me, 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:11.520 twenty four hours before the draft. And the NBA does 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.480 want the players to come to New York earlier now 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.960 to do the media circuit and be available prior to 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.280 Draft night. But yeah, when when I was in Boston, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.440 in particular, because the proximity to New York City, the 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.920 draft is you know, either Madison Square Gardener now the 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.160 Barclay Center in Brooklyn, we would try to get guys 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.640 in Wednesday morning, I mean the day before the draft, 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.600 and say, look, we know you're headed to the Northeast. 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:32.920 You know we have to do some recruitment. We love 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:34.599 your guy, get him in here. It will be the 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.520 last workout. We'll take good care of them, we won't 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:37.960 keep them long. We just want to see him one 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.000 more time and then we'll get them on the shuttle 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.560 down to New York, you know, to be available for 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.400 the draft. So that's why teams wait. And then also 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.079 the medical piece of at the intel. You want to 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.960 go over that with your trainers, doctors, people like that 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.520 one more time, tristed, just to make sure, because that's 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:53.800 the other thing that keeps you up at night, one 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.760 of the things as an executive, you draft a guy 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.200 who's not medically sound, he breaks down. That's probably one 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.680 of the quicker ways to get fired if you drafted somebody, 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.760 especially if you should have known and you didn't do 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:05.760 your job as far as knowing whether the guy was 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:06.480 medically fit or not. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.040 You mentioned ownership and a bunch of different voices in 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.280 the room. Can you kind of highlight just what it's 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.560 like on draft night in a war room, all of 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.720 the different people that are sounding off and kind of 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.839 what your experience is like for people who haven't really 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:24.000 had insight to that. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.360 Yeah, it's certainly different with different franchises. I did probably 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.480 ten or eleven drafts in Boston and then five or 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.920 six in Phoenix. You know, ideally, what you'd want is 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.480 the top decision makers in the room you're peat of basketball, 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.560 whether the president or GM his or her, you know, 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.080 top lieutenants, and then same with the head coach. You know, 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.120 the top men and women who work under the head 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.119 coach and then your owner. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:50.400 And really that's it. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.120 I mean, you don't want a lot of you know, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.480 theatrics and things like that. A lot of teams have 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.160 draft parties in both places, in Boston and Phoenix. Cre 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.080 did a good job of keeping that separate because you know, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.400 you have to concentrate and be prepared to pivot for 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.640 trades like the one we just discussed from Michel Bridges. 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.760 You know, you have to be prepared obviously to really 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:09.560 do anything. And what I mean by that is you 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.080 want to move up in the draft? Do you want 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.080 to move down in the draft? Do you want to 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.160 move out of the draft? Do you want to trade 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.079 the pick for a player? Do you want to trade 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:18.960 the pick for a future pick. You know, all that 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.319 happens in real time and is fluid, and then you also, 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.840 even as the draft is going, sometimes have to be 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.079 prepared in case there's a slider, so to think, you know, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.640 a guy you didn't think would be there all of 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.600 a sudden, you know, gravity sets in, the guy starts 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.560 coming down, the players nervous as agents calling you, and 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.199 then you have to kind of go through your process 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:36.880 to make sure you're prepared, you know, if he's on 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.160 the board when it comes up. So really the most 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.120 important people generally are the head of basketball, the head coach, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.280 and the owner. And you know, the ownership involvement depends 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.200 on the franchise and how involved they're uninvolved that guy 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:48.679 wants to be. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:54.920 How many or what percentage of NBA teams have extremely 0:13:55.600 --> 0:14:01.760 a vocal and hands on owners during draft night, I'd. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:02.679 Say a growing percentage. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:08.120 Honestly, I think as franchise values escalate and some new 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.400 money comes into the league, you know a lot of 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.040 tech and a younger group of owners. I guess I 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:14.600 think some you know, talking to guys who have done 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.160 the job longer. 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:16.200 Than I have. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.560 You know, some of the old guard owners frankly wouldn't 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.280 come around for draft night. They just you know, get 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.520 get a call or you send them an email, maybe 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.160 a fax back in the day. So here are the 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.120 guys we're looking at. You know, you try to prep 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.040 them for we might take this guy or that guy. Okay, 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.920 it sounds good. That is getting you know, less and 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.080 less standard, I guess, so they're more involved. So that's 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.400 one of the challenges, you know, from a front office 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.640 perspective or a coaching perspective. I think from any job 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.920 right managing out managing the boss and his expectations. But yeah, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.240 I don't think that's a trend that's going anywhere. Let 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:46.840 me put it this way. When the average franchise is 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.960 selling for one and a half to two plus billion 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.040 dollars and guys right to check at that level, I 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:52.760 think they're going to want to continue to be involved. 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.080 That's really interesting, especially considering I talk to somebody within 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.880 the Golden State organization and I asked them and I said, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:06.800 why do you guys consistently draft so well and find 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.560 value wherever you're at in the board. And they said, well, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.960 I think the main reason And they said a lot 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.480 of people get it confused like that. There are certain 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.040 teams that don't have great scouting departments or talent evaluation departments. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.160 There's pretty high level of talent evaluation all over the league, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.280 but it really is a matter of whether an owner 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.600 decides they want to allow those decision makers and evaluators 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.640 to have agency to make those decisions. And they said, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.360 you know, Joe Lacob has really given us a lot 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.840 of agency to make those decisions. What's it like when 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.800 you know, maybe you see a decision one way and 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:42.840 an owner disagrees. 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.560 Well, it's a challenge for sure. And I'd reiterate that 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.400 I've heard the same about Joe lacub. You know, he's 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.960 an owner, is very involved in the process. Obviously, he's 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.120 good at his team spin in the finals six of 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.280 the last eight years and won four championships. And I 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.320 give him a lot of credit, Triista, because as much 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.640 as you know any majority on I can think of 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.400 off the top of my head, he works. I mean, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.920 he goes around, he scouts games, he watches films, yet 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:07.600 he loves it. So where you get in trouble you 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.400 probably see where I'm going with this, but is where 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.480 you get in trouble is when a guy does not 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.920 do all that and bases it off of you know, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.240 pre draft workouts or highlight tapes or things like that, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.440 and thinks he knows, well, ultimately he's the boss, so 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.080 does he know you know? 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:22.840 And so it's hard. 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.720 I think, like anybody, when you disagree with you know 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.560 somebody you're working for, you need to be persistent and 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.600 make your points and be respectful, but also know when 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.840 to relent right, because ultimately, you know, at the end 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.560 of the day, unless you own a company or you're 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.360 you're the CEO or whatever, you work for somebody, so 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.760 you have to, you know, pick your spots. You hope 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.240 that the relationship you built up and the process you 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.600 have is sound. Maybe if you have a track record 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.320 of success doing something, you can fall back onto that. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.720 But yeah, I think anybody who's disagreed with the boss, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.600 you know, goes through the same calculation. When do I push, 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.680 how hard do I push? And when I realize it's 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.120 not going to go my way or not likely to 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:58.800 go my way? I do I let go of the 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.680 rope and relent, even if I don't agree with the 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:01.440 ultimate decision. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:03.800 I don't know if this happens at all, But when 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.919 I disagree with someone for whatever decision, if I'm in 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.000 a collaboration or I'm working for someone and I allow 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.040 them to be the one and it does not work 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.600 out or vice versa, it's pretty hard to not be like, well, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.200 you see, like Frank Kaminski really probably shouldn't have gone 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.440 like whatever the what was he thirteen twelve? 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.360 Maybe I say no so quickly because I know who 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.960 was the thirteenth pick in the twenty fifteen Oh yeah 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:29.440 it was Devin. 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:31.520 Booker wasn't here, so I think he came. I think 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.720 Frank Kaminsky ended up going right before Devin Booker, didn't 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:35.520 he I. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.600 Think Frank went ninth or tenth. Yeah, night change, maybe eleven. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.760 The direct pick before Devin was his college teammate Trey 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.720 Lyles with the Utah Jazz. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.000 And this is why it's so hard. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.359 I mean, Dennis Lindsay and staff did a phenomenal job 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.119 of building the Jazz when he was there. They drafted 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.399 Donovan Mitchell in the late lottery and Gobert in the 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.520