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Speaker 1: A lost civilization. Matt, I think we both love these stories.

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Speaker 1: Bring it on, let's talk about it. In the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: That place is incredible to behold. And when you see

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Speaker 1: those crevices deep down in the earth, and you just imagine,

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Speaker 1: could somebody have existed down there for safety for one

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Speaker 1: reason or another thousands of years ago. Oh, my brain

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Speaker 1: just reels. Dude. Yeah, And this is a question that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were asking, and for many decades

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Speaker 1: there was a real belief that a civilization had originated, grown,

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Speaker 1: and then died somewhere deep in the canyon. What's the truth?

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Speaker 1: How do we figure out where this story came to be,

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Speaker 1: and how do we separate the fact from fiction? I

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Speaker 1: guess we listened to this episode from January twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: From UFOs to Psychic Powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained defense. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 1: name is no. They call me Ben. We are joined

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Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Deckett. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 1: know have you guys, ever been to the Grand Canyon? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that was right at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It was, but it wasn't a jinx because we didn't

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Speaker 1: say the same thing. You're right, You're you're so right. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have been there. Have you been there been? Yes? Yeah, excellent. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What did you do on your travels? Yeah? Me too. Um,

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Speaker 1: that was not a yes? And yeah, yes we did, yes,

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Speaker 1: and I will, I will play these reindeer games. Travel

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Speaker 1: there on a family road trip, as a lot of

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Speaker 1: people do in the United States, was completely amazed and

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Speaker 1: beflummixed by the sheer scale of the thing. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when we fly out west in the course of our job,

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Speaker 1: which happens a couple you know, it happens on a

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Speaker 1: non uncommon basis, then we usually fly over the Grand Canyon,

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Speaker 1: and on a good day you can see it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and from up there it looks amazing. It looks like

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Speaker 1: kind of the photographs, like a little miniature version of it.

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Speaker 1: And you it's hard to understand truly how vast this

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Speaker 1: area is. And did you go on a family trip

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Speaker 1: as a child. No, I went with some friends. We

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Speaker 1: had a wonderful time. Did you trip acid. I did not,

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Speaker 1: though I probably wouldn't do that anyway. Did you ride

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Speaker 1: a bureau? I did not. I literally stood at the

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Speaker 1: precipice on one of the rims and just looked out

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Speaker 1: for about an hour. Probably South Rim, right, yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: South Rim is the easier, the easiest to access. Just

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Speaker 1: a little bookkeeping. We do have another guest on the

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Speaker 1: Today's Show, and it is called construction noise, So hear

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Speaker 1: that occasionally. We're not gonna just we're not gonna pause

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Speaker 1: the recording. We're gonna barrel right through. But just FYI,

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Speaker 1: we want you to know that you're not crazy. And

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Speaker 1: we hear it too, yes, which I think is an

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Speaker 1: important thing that people should say more often when there's

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Speaker 1: a weird noise around. So, Matt, when you took this

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Speaker 1: trip with your friends, first off, it does sound way cooler.

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Speaker 1: No offense to family, but I think a friend road

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Speaker 1: trip is probably just on average, more fun than a

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Speaker 1: family road trip. They were essentially my family too. Nah.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, it's true, And I believe you, you know,

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Speaker 1: I believe you and you and your friends had the

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Speaker 1: right idea. In fact, every year, more than four million

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Speaker 1: people visit the Grand Canyon National Park System just not me,

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Speaker 1: not yet, but hey, we'll get there. Man, you want

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Speaker 1: to go to the Grand Canyon. Maybe you want to

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Speaker 1: do like a friend trip to the Grand Canyon down?

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Speaker 1: Are you in? Yeah, we can do a space camp

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Speaker 1: as long as we can write a donkey. Yeah that

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Speaker 1: is a thing. I'm not making that out. But you

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Speaker 1: have to book it way in advance, no time like

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Speaker 1: the president, my friends. So where did this canyon come from?

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about what it is today. Most people living

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Speaker 1: in the US have a pretty solid idea of what

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Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon is. It exists in so much folklore,

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Speaker 1: so many tropes, it's referenced all the time, and physically

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Speaker 1: it's huge. It's kind of tough to miss. It's in

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Speaker 1: the northwest corner of Arizona and it's near the borders

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Speaker 1: of Utah and Nevada. It's managed by the National Park

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Speaker 1: Service and several tribal organizations who have an historic claim

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Speaker 1: to the land. It's divided into the North Rim and

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Speaker 1: the South Rim. When we go on a road trip there,

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Speaker 1: we'll probably go to the South Rim because it's open

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Speaker 1: all year and about ninety percent of the parks visitors

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Speaker 1: go there. The North Rim is apparently spectacular. It's closer

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Speaker 1: to Utah, but it's much less exc Yeah, it's one

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Speaker 1: of the craziest things about this. It takes roughly five

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Speaker 1: hours to drive the two hundred and fifteen miles or

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Speaker 1: excuse me, three hundred and forty six kilometers between the

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Speaker 1: South Rim where the villages there, to get to the

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Speaker 1: North Room. It takes that long five hours and if

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Speaker 1: you think, if you look at it on a map,

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Speaker 1: it does not seem like it should take that long.

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Speaker 1: And you have to be very careful when you travel

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Speaker 1: to the North Rim because it closes during winter. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's very true. So how did how did this thing

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Speaker 1: get here? It's been around a while, right, Well, the

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Speaker 1: general consensus from the scientific community as of the Grand

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Speaker 1: Canyon was formed by the constant erosion of the Colorado River,

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Speaker 1: and that started somewhere between five to six million years ago,

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Speaker 1: way way way back. It's a golden oldie. Yeah cut, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess the Grand Canyon is literally a deep cut.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, you win this round, Ben Bolin. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know we were we were playing. I feel like we

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Speaker 1: all lost for letting that joke pass or not. The

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Speaker 1: war recent research may upend the notion of the canyon

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Speaker 1: forming all in one go and at the same pace.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense right over the same span of time.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the Grand Canyon might have been the result

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Speaker 1: of two separate canyons converging. That's interesting. That makes sense

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Speaker 1: because of the way erosion works, right, So if there

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Speaker 1: were two canyons that just eroded continually, they sort of

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Speaker 1: grew into each other. Yeah, I mean that sounds like

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Speaker 1: that doesn't sound crazy, not at all. No, And it's

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Speaker 1: like two slightly less grand canyons, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: joining their forces and forming a much grander canyon. That's correct.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's hit some numbers really fast just to

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Speaker 1: get this whole scale thing under under a microscope lay

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Speaker 1: at all. Even though you couldn't ever fit any of

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Speaker 1: this under a microscope. It would have to be a

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Speaker 1: very big microscope, a massive one. A macroscope if yeah,

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Speaker 1: a macroscope. The Grand Canyon is two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: seven miles long, two hundred and seventy seven miles long,

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Speaker 1: and it's up to eighteen miles wide at any point.

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Speaker 1: At several of the points, it's the largest, and it's

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Speaker 1: more than a mile deep. If you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: surface level at the top all the way down, that's

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Speaker 1: a mile That is hard for me to fathom. It's

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Speaker 1: and again we're talking about erosion here. It's just over time,

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Speaker 1: five six million years, just all that water, all of

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Speaker 1: the weather, the sand, everything, the rocks, just getting weather

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Speaker 1: down and weather down and weather down, weather down till

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Speaker 1: you're a mile deep. And what type of rock are

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Speaker 1: we talking here, Well, there's a couple of different kinds.

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Speaker 1: We've got sandstone, We've got an old favorite shale, one

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Speaker 1: of my personal favorites, limestone. Yeah, yeah, all the good ones,

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Speaker 1: all the hits. That's only sunny in Philadelphia. Reference that

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Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't explain on a family show. And we

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Speaker 1: owe the If we were to write a thank you

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Speaker 1: card to something responsible for the Grand Canyon, we would

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Speaker 1: probably send that card to the Colorado River, right which

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Speaker 1: has worn this down. It's one thousand, four hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty miles long. And I'm sorry, Matt, I didn't check

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Speaker 1: the kilometers on that one. And it goes through seven

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Speaker 1: US states, two Mexican states. That's the lay of the land,

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Speaker 1: this very long river, this huge canyon that's a mile

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Speaker 1: deep do we do we already mention how many acres

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Speaker 1: it covers total? No, we did not. Let's let's just

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Speaker 1: do the number. One million, two hundred and eighteen thousand,

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Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy five roughly acres. Well, Matt, that's

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Speaker 1: the finest number reading I've heard in my days. It's

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Speaker 1: a huge number, that number of acres. If you think

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Speaker 1: about you know, if you're going to buy a house

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Speaker 1: anywhere near a city, you're going to get about point

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Speaker 1: two five to one acre, I mean one Do you

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Speaker 1: want to buy the whole canyon? Matt? No, I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying if you imagine that amount of space and then

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Speaker 1: multiply it by that number, Wholy Mackerel and people. It

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Speaker 1: turns out, have been living in the area for quite

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Speaker 1: a long time. As we record this in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Current archaeological evidence suggests that humans were in the Grand

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Speaker 1: Canyon as far as four thousand years ago, like a

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Speaker 1: permanent residential kind of situation. But before then, at least

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Speaker 1: six thousand, five hundred years ago, they were visiting the

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Speaker 1: Grand Canyon checking it out, going, whoa, I mean it

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Speaker 1: sticks out, yeah, markeable thing. Can you imagine just happening

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Speaker 1: upon that and just like you're, you know, a daily walk. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wonder too if when people were doing that, if

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Speaker 1: the weather would change, you know, if you're walking from

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Speaker 1: a long distance. Oh, man, I bet you're right, because

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Speaker 1: it's so massive that it could even have impacts on

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Speaker 1: like air pressure and all kinds of different variables that

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Speaker 1: could be perceptible, especially thinking about the flat arid land

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Speaker 1: that you'd be walking to to journey upon it and

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Speaker 1: just go, oh, what happened here? You know, some being

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Speaker 1: God or whatever, what have you created? This? Cool? We

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Speaker 1: should at least set something up here. And who is

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Speaker 1: the first person to get to the bottom and then

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Speaker 1: back up without dying? I feel like there were probably

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Speaker 1: a couple of people who got to the bottom and

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Speaker 1: didn't make it back. Yeah, Like this was a really

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Speaker 1: bad idea. Yeah, I guess we're going to start a

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Speaker 1: village down here now and today, this era, this group

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Speaker 1: of human inhabitants is referred to as the ancestral pueblo

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Speaker 1: of the Basketmaker three era. In archaeology, you'll often hear

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Speaker 1: them refer to as the Anasazi, although the modern pueblo

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Speaker 1: and people do not They don't really truck with this

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Speaker 1: name because the word Anasazi is Navajo for either ancient

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Speaker 1: ones or ancient enemies. And today people are still trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out exactly when this distinct culture emerged. But

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Speaker 1: the point is that there have been cultures there for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. Evidence suggest that these Inner Canyon

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Speaker 1: dwellers were part of Desert Culture, a group of semi

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Speaker 1: nomadic hunter gatherer Native Americans. They inhabited the Rim and

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Speaker 1: the Inner Canyon. They survived by hunting and gathering, along

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Speaker 1: with a little bit of agriculture, but not a huge amount,

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Speaker 1: and as you could probably tell by the name, they

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Speaker 1: were noted for their basketmaking skills. Yeah, they lived in

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Speaker 1: these little small communal bands inside caves, which makes a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense if you think about the structures around there.

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Speaker 1: What would give you shelter? And they made these circular

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Speaker 1: mud structures that they called pit houses or are now

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Speaker 1: referred to as pit houses. And then through further refinement

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Speaker 1: of agriculture and some technology as it's being developed, it

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Speaker 1: led to a more sedentary, more stable lifestyle for the

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Speaker 1: ancestral pueblos starting around five hundred CE, so that's when

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Speaker 1: things start to change a little bit from the hunter

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Speaker 1: gatherer into not close not what we would imagine as

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Speaker 1: being a sedentary life, but getting closer to that. And

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Speaker 1: there's this other group called the what is it the Coonia.

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Speaker 1: They lived west of the current side of the Grand

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Speaker 1: Canyan village that part of the south room if you're

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Speaker 1: imagine you're looking at a map, and they lived there

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Speaker 1: around the same time that these ancient Pueblu people were living.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we know civilizations rise, the civilizations they

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Speaker 1: also do tend to fall, especially ancient ones. And archaeological

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Speaker 1: sites show that the ancestral Pueblo and the Coconina flourished

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Speaker 1: only until about twelve hundred CE. That's because something likely

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Speaker 1: happened one hundred years later that forced both of these

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Speaker 1: cultures to skidaddle. Several lines of evidence led to a

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Speaker 1: theory that climate change what's that caused a severe drought

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Speaker 1: in the region from twelve seventy six to twelve ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: and that forced these agrarian people cultures to move on

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Speaker 1: to greener pastures. Yeah, you can't get any crops to

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Speaker 1: grow here. Our animals don't have enough food. Let's get out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we should point out, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: this is about the timing of their move into an

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Speaker 1: increasingly agriculture focused Society's that's typically what we see happening

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Speaker 1: in cultures around the world. Right a hunter gatherer, you

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Speaker 1: grow some crops, domesticate some animals, etc. There's a curious

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Speaker 1: gap here in the record because it turns out that,

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Speaker 1: as Nul pointed out, this drought occurred and people's get addled.

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Speaker 1: And this is droughts are one of the reasons, one

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Speaker 1: of the common reasons behind a lot of civilizations in decline,

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Speaker 1: like angor Watt suffered from a drought which led to,

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Speaker 1: you know, the loss of the city's population. And in

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Speaker 1: the case of the Canyon, what we find is that

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Speaker 1: for about one hundred years after people left because of

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Speaker 1: this drought, just no one lived there. Yeah, we have

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Speaker 1: to wonder why we're people just telling their kids that

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Speaker 1: place sucks. It's for the birds. It could have been

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Speaker 1: thought maybe there was some kind of curse or you know,

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Speaker 1: something that was occurring there that was unnatural, the sort

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Speaker 1: of sala It's possible. I mean, you can imagine that

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Speaker 1: being a word of mouth tail. Sure, so for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years other than this one, this gap for about

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Speaker 1: a century. There's been a continual inhabitants, right, There's always

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Speaker 1: been some sort of human population there, primarily Native Americans

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Speaker 1: who built settlements within the canyon, and as Matt pointed out,

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Speaker 1: it's many caves. The Pueblo people considered the Grand Canyon

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Speaker 1: a holy site. They made pilgrimages to it, and of course,

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Speaker 1: at some point a European quote unquote discovers it. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The first European known to have even viewed set eyes

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Speaker 1: on the Grand Canyon was Garcia Lopez Decardenias from Spain,

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Speaker 1: and he arrived there in fifteen forty, so he was

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Speaker 1: a little late to the party, but when he discovered

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Speaker 1: tend to be. But you know, hey, he found it

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Speaker 1: and put it on a map somewhere, good guy. And

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Speaker 1: fast forward to the present. That's a quick and dirty

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Speaker 1: look at the past of the Grand Canyon. But there's

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Speaker 1: still mysteries in the present day. As we've covered in

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Speaker 1: earlier episodes, people disappear in public parks way more often

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Speaker 1: than you might think. Yeah. I don't know about you, guys,

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Speaker 1: but I was stunned to discover that there is no

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Speaker 1: federal database tracking these people. Yeah, it seems like there

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Speaker 1: probably should be. Even if it was, even if it

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Speaker 1: was just shorthand somewhere or a single Google doc that

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Speaker 1: would be that would make a lot of sense. But no,

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Speaker 1: and people forget the United States is very much a wilderness.

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Speaker 1: We have these vast swaths of unoccupied land, right, no roads,

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Speaker 1: no cities, no cell phones, etc. We do have wilderness here,

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Speaker 1: and thankfully a lot of it is protected. Otherwise, you know,

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Speaker 1: commerce would probably find a way to swoop in and

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Speaker 1: bulldoze a whole lot of it. Yeah, but it's the wilderness, dude.

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Speaker 1: Anything could be out there, It's true. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it can be tamed by combines, geese or

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Speaker 1: another thing that has absolutely nothing to do with this episode.

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Speaker 1: But I think is interesting is the habit that a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies have of buying access or buying land

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Speaker 1: that has a water source on it and then taking

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Speaker 1: that water and making bottled water. Yeah Nestlie, Yes, exactly

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Speaker 1: like Nestlie. It sounds like some evil Doctor Soda scheme

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Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, totally is. And the Grand Canyon is

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Speaker 1: no different from a lot of these other wild areas.

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Speaker 1: They're challenge trails, you know, Um, Nola is not joking

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Speaker 1: about the burrow. It's a real thing. Uh. There's tremendous

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Speaker 1: isolation in parts of it, right, Like can you imagine

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Speaker 1: some for some reason being stuck at the North Rim

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Speaker 1: in winter. It's not just a borrow, right, it comes

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Speaker 1: with a guide, Yes, someone who really knows the lay

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Speaker 1: of the land, and we'll you know, guide you on this,

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Speaker 1: uh this donkey ride down these steep passes and and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you know, get you there alive. You are excited

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Speaker 1: about this, Well, I'm into a manly want a book, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's book. Okay, let's go. So you're talking about these

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Speaker 1: these mile long or mile depth areas which you know

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Speaker 1: are really scary, Like you're talking about you've also got

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Speaker 1: the Colorado River which is just rapidly flowing down below

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Speaker 1: you in most of the places where you're going to

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Speaker 1: be visiting and climbing. Absolutely, and we also know that

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Speaker 1: these they're going to be disappearances, injuries, and deaths due

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00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 1: to natural causes, right, But there are some things that

301
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 1: are little more sinister, and we have to admit that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: over time, several people have likely been murdered in the canyon.

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Speaker 1: Some might remain undiscovered today. It's just gigantic. It's worse

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00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 1: than a needle in a haystack situation, especially before the

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Speaker 1: invention of GPS. Yeah, if you think about the number

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00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: of people over time that will visit any certain point

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00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: in the Grand Canyon, that isn't some of the most

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Speaker 1: trafficked numbers are going to be really small, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I mean think of all the neat, tuckaway kind of

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Speaker 1: spots on the way down too. There's probably little caves

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Speaker 1: and areas that would be harder to get to. And

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Speaker 1: if you had a really good sense of all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: you could probably hide a body pretty easily. That's a

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Speaker 1: really good point. You're right, we should go In nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, we have an example. Sorry, we have an example.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty eight, these Idaho farmers named Glen Hide

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Speaker 1: and Bessie Hyde traveled six hundred miles along the Green

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Speaker 1: and Colorado Rivers in this huge wooden boat, a sweet scow.

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Speaker 1: The boat was found intact, they found the couples food,

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Speaker 1: their diary, their guidebook, clothing, the gun. And it was

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Speaker 1: forty six miles from the mouth of the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: But the honeymooners, oh yeah, I should mentioned they were

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Speaker 1: on their honeymoon were never found, and ever since, Glenn

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Speaker 1: and Bessie Hyde have been the focus of campfire stories

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Speaker 1: and at least four maybe Glenn's and Bessies appeared or

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Speaker 1: sighted in later years and over these legends of this

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Speaker 1: miraculous escape. But that's just one example. That's just one

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Speaker 1: example of something that still remains officially unsolved. And if

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Speaker 1: you look by the way, I just want to say,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the sweep scow boat, it looks

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Speaker 1: like something that should not be going down rapids in

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Speaker 1: a river. It looks like this wooden I mean large,

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Speaker 1: like the shape of a boat, a big boat with

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Speaker 1: two humans on it that look away too small compared

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Speaker 1: to the boat to be going down a river like that,

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Speaker 1: with rocks like giant, huge boulders just kind of sitting

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00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: there in outcroppings. That sounds like Glenn and Bessie Hyde

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00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: may have signed up from more than they were ready for. Well,

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00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 1: they had, they had done it before, apparently like they

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00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: were a pretty seasoned right they had. I think they'd

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Speaker 1: done some rafting and wyoming. Yeah, they've done things very similar,

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Speaker 1: so I think they expected it to be okay. Because

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Speaker 1: there's no like Bunny trail in the in the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you said, one side is a

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Speaker 1: little easier to access than the other, but overall it

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Speaker 1: is some pretty punishing terrain. Yeah. True. And you're probably

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Speaker 1: asking us and maybe yourself, you know, Matt Noel, super producer,

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Speaker 1: Paul Ben this is interesting. But why are you telling

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Speaker 1: us about the Grand Canyon that this is all the setup? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All we've been doing now is setting up the actual

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Speaker 1: episode because today's twist, you see, it's not about a

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Speaker 1: normal disappearance of a couple, tragic as it may be,

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Speaker 1: nor is it about the disappearance of individ jewels. Today's

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Speaker 1: story instead is about the disappearance of civilization. And today's

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Speaker 1: question is there a lost civilization in the Grand Canyon?

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Speaker 1: And we'll dive right into that after a quick word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. What if

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Speaker 1: there really was some other, unknown to modern history, unknown

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Speaker 1: to you and I listening to this right now, some

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00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: ancient civilization that called the Grand Canyon home, that was

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Speaker 1: their way before any of the proven civilizations that we've discussed,

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Speaker 1: the ancient Pueblos. What if it's been there all along,

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Speaker 1: someone just had to discover it. Yes, what if not

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Speaker 1: not just some kind of like city of ghost city

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Speaker 1: of dead hikers, but like ancient forces, right, like what

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Speaker 1: has it been the Hopie the Keeper of Death? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: the Keeper of Death is said to reside in the

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Speaker 1: Grand Canyon. Have not independent all You got to do

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Speaker 1: a slip on a rock and you will meet him.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's in a hurry. The Hopie Keeper of

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Speaker 1: Death is waiting for you. They just don't put it

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Speaker 1: in a lot of the brochures, but they're out there.

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Speaker 1: And according to newspapers, the Hopie believed there was an

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Speaker 1: earlier iteration of civilization in the canyon. They believed that

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Speaker 1: their ancestors once lived in an underworld until dissension rose

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Speaker 1: between the good people and the bad people, which they

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Speaker 1: described as the people of one heart and the people

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Speaker 1: of two hearts, and this conflict led them to leave

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00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: this underground paradise. And the just this legend is really

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00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 1: cool to look into. It gets complicated quickly with the

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00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: different types of people how they're described, and you'll see

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00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: people that we'll talk about a little later, like David Ike,

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Speaker 1: who are ascribing things maybe differently to them than I

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00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: would ascribe to what I have read. But you get

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00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: into thoughts of lizard people here. You get into images

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00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: of other otherworldly humanoids right right, whether they are purported

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00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: to be purely folklore, whether they are purported to be

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00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, ancient extraterrestrials or some sort of parallel sapient

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Speaker 1: species that existed along with Homo sapien. I love this though,

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Speaker 1: this kind of mythology of the Grand Canyon being almost

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Speaker 1: like a gate to the underworld or a passage into

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00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: the afterlife. That is cool. Yeah, man, I keep harping

393
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: on this, but it's a mile down and that is deep.

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00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: You're getting close. So nowadays, although we have a wealth

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00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: of facts and information about the Grand Canyon, we don't

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Speaker 1: have the same sense of it that people had back

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00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: in the day. Like in the eight nineteenth century, the

398
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: Grand Canyon was this fascinating, mysterious and very dangerous thing.

399
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: US residents were stunned by the Formation, and to be

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00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: honest with you, a lot of readers, especially in the

401
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, would have believed any number of strange

402
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: things about it. They're probably not going to go right.

403
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: They probably only have a few newspapers that they read, right,

404
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: and they their chances of meeting someone who traveled there

405
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: are much lower than our chances of meeting a Grand

406
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: Canyon visitor would be today. Yeah, it's the thing that

407
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: Ben talks about a lot on this show, where the

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00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: cost of communication back in the day, as well as

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00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: the cost of transportation. When you add those two things

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00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: together and you're talking about the early twentieth century, it's exactly.

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00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: I'm just meaning to reiterate it. You're not going to

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00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: get to the Grand Canyon unless you have the means.

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00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: And now it's like the Internet is democratized like information

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Speaker 1: in such a way that like everybody knows everything, not everything,

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00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: but like they have access to it if they so

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00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: choose to seek out said information. Absolutely, Pandora's jar is

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00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: open for better or for worse. So we looked into

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00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: this because we had we had received several emails and correspondencies.

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Speaker 1: Do I see correspondencies? I think so? Yeah, cool, while

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00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: we're going with it, we received several messages from you

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00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: and your fellow listeners who asked us to look into

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00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: these stories of a low civilization in the Grand Canyon.

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Speaker 1: And one thing that was profound to us is we

424
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: deal with a lot of hoaxes, just in the nature

425
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: of our research, and we like to think we have

426
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: an okay nose for determining what's fake or determining what's real.

427
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: Noel and Matt are both audio and video experts, so

428
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: they are able to They're able to look at a

429
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: picture and say whether it's a it's a fuzzy light,

430
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: or if it's actually something spooky, able to analyze audio.

431
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: People back then didn't have that benefit. But I was

432
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: totally not expecting to find real newspaper articles. That's what

433
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: I should say, you know what I should say. At

434
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: the top, I thought I was going to find a

435
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: bunch of fake stuff. That by fake, I mean like

436
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: something someone made in twenty thirteen that day to look

437
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: like it was made in that time, not like the

438
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: fake news of today. I guess kind of like that. Yeah,

439
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: But like about the Grand King, it required a lot

440
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: more effort to do it back then, though we had

441
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: You had to really like go through with your paste

442
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: and you had cut out stuff and do a real

443
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: good job. Today people could just write bullcrap on the internet.

444
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: It's it's true. And in this instance it was an

445
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: actual newspaper, The Arizona Gazette, and it published an actual

446
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: story that ran in the paper. Was it was published,

447
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: it was printed, it was sent out to readers. It

448
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: was a series of stories. Yeah. A March twelfth of

449
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: nineteen nine, the Arizona Gazette reported that an explorer by

450
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: the name of Ge Kincaide. Please keep that in your mind,

451
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: because we'll get back to Ge. They said that he

452
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: was traveling alone or along the Colorado River and he

453
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: had discovered profound, previously unknown architecture and artifacts inside a

454
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: vast series of caverns within the Grand Canyon. This is

455
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, Yeah, nineteen o nine, so

456
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: unlike I mean Indian, Native American artifacts were very much

457
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: unknown quantity, right, yeah, so unknown, Like what are we

458
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: talking about? Right? He? Uh? Would The implication in the

459
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: story is that they were clearly not from any known

460
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: Native American source. Interesting. Yeah, we're gonna get into a

461
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: lot of that stuff. But the big question that I

462
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: had immediately upon reading this is, all right, who is

463
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: this mister Kincaide. Ge Kincaide, fellow. I'm glad you asked,

464
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: because we know very very all about him, other than

465
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: that he came from Lewiston, Idaho, and according to the

466
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: Arizona Gazette, he had worked as a scout for the

467
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: Smithsonian for over thirty years. Oh that's okay, all right.

468
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: He was. Also when you read newspapers from this time,

469
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: the things they choose as descriptors and the way that

470
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: they prioritize information just seems really weird. One of the

471
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: few facts we know is that the Arizona Gazette said,

472
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: Gee Kincaide is, in addition to being a scout for

473
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian, the first white child born in Idaho. I

474
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: just have to say that is the first thing that

475
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: they say about ge Kincaide in the article. That's how

476
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: they introduce him, Geek and Kaide, the first white child

477
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: born in Idaho, the first white child that's in Idaho.

478
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: That is what is printed on the page. And also,

479
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: I knowho seems like one of the whitest places in

480
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: America to me today, I got wow, Ida, who knew?

481
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: But I guess you know, you're talking about western expansion

482
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, so well, I guess it's his fault. Yeah.

483
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: Also nineteen o nine, Yeah, I know, really it just

484
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: seems like that's so funny. Yeah, it's it's a weird

485
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: way to describe someone. Yeah, you know. So Additionally, he

486
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: had spent time traveling down the Green River and he

487
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: was noted as carrying a camera unspecified type of camera,

488
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: but some sort of camera, and the initial article in

489
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: the Gazette prompted a series of expeditions by people who

490
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: were seeking the answers for themselves as well as wealth

491
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: and buried treasure. So if you're a scout for the Smithsonian,

492
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: you're not even like the ones actually taking the pictures

493
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: they're going to publish. You're just going out there and

494
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: identifying spots for the real photographers to come back out

495
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: there knowing that it's safe and then take the real pictures. Right.

496
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: I bet you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he was expendable.

497
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: That's why they sent him down the Colorado River. They

498
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: literally sold him down the river. He was a red shirt.

499
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Wow. So there's a lot that we haven't

500
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: unpacked about this yet, and it's pretty crazy. It's we're

501
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: gonna get into stuff you're asking about, Noel. The first

502
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: thing we have to really think about here is tracking

503
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: these sources, Like where where are we getting the information?

504
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: Where's the Gazette getting its information, and you know, the

505
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: Gazette itself. Yeah. So, according to the Gazette, again a

506
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: real newspaper, the exploration was being directed by the Smithsonian,

507
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: specifically by an anthropologist there named sa Jordan, Professor sa Jordan,

508
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: And apparently Kincaid was well known in these circles. They

509
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: paint him as sort of an Indiana Jones type, very

510
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: much so. And in the article Kincaid talks a little

511
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: bit about the location of the cavern system. Yes, he

512
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: said it was in the Marble Canyon region. You can

513
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: look that up if you'd like to, but we are

514
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: just gonna read it passes from the article here, the

515
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: cavern was described as being quote nearly a mile underground. Okay,

516
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: that kind of checks out. About one thousand, four hundred

517
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: and eighty feet below the surface. The main passage had

518
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: been delved into to find a mammoth chamber, from which

519
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: radiates scores of passageways like the spokes of a wheel.

520
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running

521
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: from the main passage, one of them having been explored

522
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: for eight hundred and fifty four feet and another for

523
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: six hundred and thirty four feet. This is amazing. How

524
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: would you have accessed this like the from the grant

525
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: from the canyon, because that's all open to the sky,

526
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: so it's for it to be underground. Does that mean

527
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: you would have to go into like a cave and

528
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: then go down through a passage and so yeah, here's

529
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: here's my issue with this whole thing. So the entrance

530
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: is about one thousand, four hundred and eighty feet below

531
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: the surface, so we have to imagine the surface would

532
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: be top of the Grand Canyon, right, and then go

533
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: down that much then you get to the entrance and

534
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: then nearly a mile underground from there. I don't know.

535
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: Perhaps these two things are being described as the same,

536
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: not just trying to picture. This is amazing though, and

537
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: go on, what what what did he find? Yeah? What's

538
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: in there? Well? They found numerous artifacts from some ancient

539
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: unknown civilization, articles which have never been known as native

540
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: to this country, and doubtless they had their origin in

541
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: the Orient. Wall weapons, kappa instruments shop edged as hard

542
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by

543
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: these strange people. The people. Sorry, there was also this

544
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: Buddha like I would describe it as Buddha like statue

545
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: which sits with its legs crossed like in a almost

546
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: like a meditative, meditative pose, Yeah, with a lotus flower

547
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: or a lily in each hand, and that that description

548
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: is very um. That description is meant to further their

549
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: argument that these seem to be somehow asiatic and extract Well,

550
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: it even is quoted as saying, quote, the cast of

551
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: the face is oriental. Unquote. Well, what the devil were

552
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: they doing here in the canyon? I don't know they were.

553
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: According to the article, um, the scientists are not certain

554
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: as to what religious worship it represents. It is possible

555
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibetan.

556
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: Tibet It sounds very Tibetan, doesn't mean. Among the other

557
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper

558
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: and gold, made very artistic in design. And we know

559
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: that using the term oriental is incredibly racist. Yes, and

560
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: that's why that's just kind of lopping it in with

561
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: the whole white child thing. But the steel weapons, the

562
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: lotus flower holding, you know, Buddha figure, this all really

563
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: does sound like stuff that would have been around, you know,

564
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: in Asian cultures. Well sure, yeah, and it sounds amazing,

565
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: and you can imagine why this article being printed caused

566
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: so many people to want to get out there and

567
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: like find that stuff. Oh man, I'm gonna be rich.

568
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the big question. Why was this

569
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: so important? What happened next? We'll tell you after a

570
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. So I hope everybody had a

571
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: good break. We're going to look at why this was

572
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: so crucial and so important, why it means such a splash,

573
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: And probably one of the best ways to do that

574
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: is with an excerpt from the gazette directly discoveries which

575
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious

576
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: cavern heune and solid rock, by human and was of

577
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: Oriental origin Cringe, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramseys.

578
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: If their theories are born by the translation of the

579
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: tablets engraved with hieroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples

580
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: of North America, their ancient arts, who they were, and

581
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: whence they came will be solved. Egypt and the Nile

582
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a

583
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: historical chain running back to ages, which staggers the wildest

584
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: fancy of the fictionist. Wow, well done, and I love

585
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: the idea of using fictionist as ancientist. You sir, let's

586
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 1: do that. Can we make that happen on this show? Yeah?

587
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,439
Speaker 1: And then we slap them with a glove, yes, yes,

588
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: bite our thumbs, all right, we have to get gloves. Paul,

589
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: are you in? Yes? Okay, he's not one hundred percent,

590
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: but he's gonna he's gonna go along with it. He

591
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: gave us a glove thumb up right. So this excerpt

592
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: shows something that we have seen before in different cultures.

593
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: You know, when European explorers found ancient African cities, if

594
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: you know, they tried to write it with their preconceived ideology,

595
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: their framework through which they saw the world, which unfortunately

596
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: usually meant them going, ah, yes there's evidence of white people.

597
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: But they called it civilization as a euphemism. But let's

598
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: be clear, that's what they meant. They meant like something

599
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: that was closer to what they thought of as society,

600
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: which was European. And you can read a lot of

601
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: criticism for stuff like ancient alien theory that we've talked

602
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: about before, and stuff like claiming to find a laws

603
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: civilization in One of the tent poles of this sort

604
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: of criticism is saying that the people who believe that

605
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: or argue it despite the evidence are actually unconsciously or consciously,

606
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: they're devaluing the work and the existence of the people

607
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: who were really there. So we can't we can't read

608
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: this and not recognize that on some level, the implication

609
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: here is like Native Americans are not as good as

610
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 1: you know us the first white child and Idaho. Speaking

611
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: of the first white child in Idaho, though this story

612
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: has sort of a spooky stories to tell him the

613
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: dark esque kind of twist. It's either that or it

614
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: just means the whole thing was a hoax. But whatever

615
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: the case may be, the Smithsonian have no record of

616
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: either ge Kincaide or his supposed supervisor, the professor sa

617
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: Jordan Gas. Yeah, there's no records, So that can mean

618
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Yeah, either it really is an

619
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones style explorer and maybe maybe Essay Jordan's as pops,

620
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: We just don't know that, maybe that's his dad and

621
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: Sean Connery style. Yeah, yeah he was kidnapped. Didn't told

622
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: Indiana no. But but but really, if we look into it,

623
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian spokespeople have asserted that quote, no Egyptian artifacts

624
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: of any kind have ever been found in North or

625
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: South America. Therefore, I can tell you that the Smithsonian

626
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: Institute has never been involved in any such excavations. So

627
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: so our primary source here is still just this gazette article,

628
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: this Arizona Gazette article that identifies these people with their

629
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: as having an affiliation with the Smithsonian, right, and the

630
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: later series of articles they published because ge kincaide for

631
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't exist went on a couple of adventures.

632
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but we know, you know, journalists get stuff wrong.

633
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: But that's that's a that's a doozy to get that

634
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: kind of that level of attribution completely wrong, don't you think. Yeah, So,

635
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: just to go back, either they did get some attribution

636
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: wrong or this these two guys got wiped out of

637
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: the record for some reason, or they didn't exist. Maybe

638
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: it was a back to the future type scenario where

639
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 1: they were sort of ghosted out of existence by their

640
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: actions in the ghost tunnels. We do know that we've

641
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: run into this in the past. We do know that

642
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: there have been multiple beliefs or theories that paint the

643
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: Smithsonian Institution as villainous. Oh yeah, like they're stealing ancient

644
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: or irregular skeletons and hoarding them for some reason and

645
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: then denying their existence and then just not telling anyone.

646
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Lots of other ancient human artifacts that are

647
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: allegedly being you know kept. Yeah, and to be like

648
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: kind of like the first game in town down as

649
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: far as like cataloging and getting all of this very

650
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: priceless stuff. You know, some corners got cut, and some

651
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: people probably did some things they weren't proud of. I

652
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: don't know. I would never accuse the Smithsonian of doing

653
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: anything like that. Don't comin any place, at least for

654
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah, man, I hope you know what, if

655
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: someone from the Smithsonian is listening and there is any

656
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: sand to that, yes, please come at me. I want

657
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: that to be true. I don't think it is. I

658
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: just personally I have a really tough time believing that

659
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian is up to something villainous. But I do

660
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: completely agree with Noel's point that in the past they

661
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: probably did some stuff. That's all I meant. Yeah, yeah,

662
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean the Smithsonian is as a storied history and

663
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: the stuff that they have that they have preserved. It's

664
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: around and you can see in there are many museums

665
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: and publications. It's all priceless to you know, human culture

666
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: and civilization and the preservation of all that stuff. But

667
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: you know, the wild West man, when you're like going

668
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: on these expeditions and sending out scouts and all this stuff,

669
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: who knows what good goes down in the wilderness. And

670
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: they hadn't dealt with the ethics of taking things from

671
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: other cultures, right, And that's still sort of a problem.

672
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: But we that's still a huge problem. That's sort of

673
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: a problem. But we do know that the Smithsonian has

674
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: done amazing work preserving culture as well. Oh absolutely, And

675
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm being completely facetious about saying the Smithsonian's gonna come

676
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: get me. No one ever expects the Smithsonian. Yeah, that's

677
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: very true. But let's get back to the article itself

678
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: and just discuss if you're gonna post something in an

679
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: Arizona gazette, you're going to publish a story. Sure, as

680
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 1: a reader reading that, you're not exactly going to have

681
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: the time or perhaps the money, as we spoke before,

682
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: to go and independently verify what's being said in this

683
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: story to fact check it not like today, especially in

684
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: nineteen yeah, nineteen one. Come on, you, you know, think

685
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: about how inconvenient that would be for you. If you're

686
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: just a Matt Frederick reading the Arizona Gazette just opening

687
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: up on the Sunday morning and going, oh, well, look

688
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: at this incredible, you'd most likely write a letter to

689
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: the editor if you wrote to anyone. So we can

690
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: imagine the Gazette received a ton of inquiries about this information.

691
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: But we have to ask ourselves what happened? Yeah, right,

692
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: If the Grand Canyon is such a popular site now,

693
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: as we said at the top of the show, over

694
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: four million visitors a year, and if it's been extensively

695
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: covered by surveillance right in terms of scouts going out, physically,

696
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: park rangers, GPS, satellite imagery, if there's something there, how

697
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: is it still hidden? Is this hidden history or a

698
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: hopeless hoax? It is a very illiterative day. Well. The

699
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: host of Skeptoid, which is a great podcast, Brian Dunning,

700
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: summed it up as such. Quote, these stories were not

701
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: just isolated pranks or whimsies in regional newspapers, not even

702
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: fads or trends, but we're emblematic of much broader cultural currents.

703
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: The American Romanticism and Transcendentalism movements were at full bore,

704
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: rejecting the corruption of modern society and yearning for the

705
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: perceived purity of ancient Eastern cultures, of which Egyptian and

706
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: Tibetan were among the most revered. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah,

707
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: so how did get into the paper? How did pass muster?

708
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: You know, just one person as editors? Yes or no? Yeah,

709
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: some hippie. We got to get readership up, guys. It's

710
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: first quarter nineteen oh nine. Papers. They aren't getting bought

711
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: as much anymore. People are buying them for that dime

712
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: over in the diner. We gotta get more readership. Put that,

713
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: Put that Green Canyon story page one. Yeah, nobody wants

714
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 1: to lose out to the Tombstone Pickaune. It's true. Main rival.

715
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: I made that up. But there are people who will

716
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: tell you that there is a cover up a foot

717
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: particularly writer known as John Rhodes known as John Rhodes

718
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: because that's his name, not to be cryptic about it.

719
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: He claims to know the exact location of the caverns,

720
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: and the site is guarded today, according to him, by

721
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: a loan soldier carrying an M sixteen, and that the

722
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: caverns are actually a museum for the shadowy cabal that

723
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: runs civilization. So, okay's a bit of a fringe writer,

724
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: shall we say? Right? Yeah, just let's just quickly talk

725
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: about John Rhodes. If you go to the website reptoids

726
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: dot com, that is where he does a lot of

727
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: his writing. You know, it's a It's a person who's

728
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: doing a lot of research and has an outlet to

729
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 1: write about it and has some very interesting ideas. I

730
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: have not spoken to him, But here's the thing. I

731
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: have not been able to locate this any quote that

732
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: is close to what is being said here, because that

733
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: what Ben just read was from a Gizmoto article. And

734
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: again I cannot verify independently that he said anything about

735
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: shadowy elites and caverns and a lone M sixteen carrying

736
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: guy that guards it. But wow, that's a cool idea.

737
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: And where are you telling me earlier that David Ike

738
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: has a connection with this? Yeah, the book that you

739
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: put on our Instagram, Ben, The Biggest Secret, the nineteen

740
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 1: ninety nine I think guest book that was written by

741
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: mister Ike. It connects the Grand Canyon discovery, specifically this one,

742
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: the Concaid discovery with the Reptilian overlords. Like we were

743
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: talking in the beginning, like perhaps this is where they

744
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: started or one of the places where they landed, or

745
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: one of the places where they arose from. Yeah, and

746
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: you can see this the connective tissue of these various

747
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: fringe theories stretching out right in either direction. And with that,

748
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: we do have to say that at this point it

749
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: does not seem as though there is some sort of

750
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: non Native American law civilization in the Grand Canyon, unless

751
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: it is being so well covered up and protected that

752
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: we just don't know about it. But why, maybe it's

753
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: like a place to worship the lower ones. My favorite

754
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: tidbit in all of this is the idea of the

755
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: Grand Canyon being this gateway of the underworld that fascinates

756
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: me and captivates me more than the hidden civilization stuff. Personally,

757
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: I'm really into this idea of a shadow museum, like

758
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: a top secret evil museum. I want to go. I mean,

759
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: I guess if there's not one like that already, I'll

760
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: just eventually build one, right, Yeah, someone should so we

761
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: do know that the odds are right now that there

762
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: isn't some sort of low civilization at least in the

763
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: Grand Canyon. However, these rumors, these hoaxes, these beliefs, do

764
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: not come out of thin air. In the modern era,

765
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 1: our species has discovered cave dwellings that radically redefine what

766
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: we thought we knew about the course of humanity. Here

767
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm thinking specifically of go Beckley, the Turkish cavern system. Yes,

768
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: oh man, that really changed things there, Like you said,

769
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: been there're been numerous versions of this. Even if you

770
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: look at some of the cave paintings that we've discovered

771
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: over the years, you discover you realize that humans have

772
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: been around for much longer in places that we didn't

773
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: think they existed at the time, right And for in

774
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: the case of go Beckley Tepe, it wasn't even excavated

775
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 1: until starting in the nineteen nineties, and people were there

776
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: from the tenth to eighth millennium BC. So there are

777
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 1: still things out there in the ground waiting to be found.

778
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: And we've talked before about the technology that is aiding

779
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: in the search, and we also talked just a little

780
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: bit about this is a wild theory, but it's completely

781
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: plausible about how some countries don't want old sites to

782
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: be found because then they're responsible for preserving them, reconstructing them,

783
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: guarding them. Yeah, and it's a huge drain, could be

784
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: a drag even like those an ESCO Heritage sites and

785
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: things like that, that can be prohibitively expensive for places

786
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: that don't have a whole heck of a lot of money. Yeah,

787
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: unless you're talking about NGEO or a nonprofit or something,

788
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: you're going to spend tax dollars on that. And also,

789
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: the majority of the time that someone rediscovers an ancient site,

790
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: they've put a lot of work in And I'm not

791
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: dinging the people who've done this work, but the majority

792
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: of the time what we see is that native populations

793
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: or people who've lived in the area for a long time,

794
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: we're already somewhat aware of something. Yeah, you know, so

795
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: we know that in our lifetimes and probably the next

796
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: few years, they are going to be more discoveries. We

797
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what or where they will be, but

798
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 1: we do have questions for you. Do you think there's

799
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: any kind of significant undiscovered ruins or structures that exist

800
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: deep in the Grand Canyon. Somewhere maybe in the middle

801
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: of the canyon, about half a mile down, there's an

802
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: cave entrance that's extremely hard to get to. Do you

803
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: think that exists right to us? And where in the

804
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: US have you heard of other alleged sites of law civilizations?

805
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: Speaking of you? That reminds us it's time for jah Conna.

806
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: Our first shout out comes from Kathy. Kathy says, how

807
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: about looking into what is being labeled the Bama boom.

808
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: It is occurring in other locations as well. The ones

809
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 1: located around Alabama are just getting some of the best average. Thanks.

810
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: And this is another one of those things where it's

811
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: a mysterious sound. In this case, it is literally a boom.

812
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: And you can find a Fox News article that discusses

813
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: this mysterious boom that jolted part of the state. And

814
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: apparently it's happened more than once. In this case, evidence

815
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: pointed to a sonic boom from either an aircraft that

816
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: was flying overhead or meteor some kind of explosion in

817
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: the air. Also a delicious fruit flavored malt beverage. Yeah, ma'am,

818
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: a boom. Let's look into this. Thank you for writing Kathy.

819
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: We also have a message from Narison. I hope I'm

820
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: pronouncing your name correctly, who says, FYI head rest in

821
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: your car ar me to have pointed tips to break

822
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 1: windows in case you're stuck or submerged with windows closed.

823
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 1: And then he followed up, Yeah, he followed up saying

824
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: it looks like that was an internet myth. Sorry for

825
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: the misinformation. Fell into the conspiracy myself, but I saw this,

826
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: and I mean, they are the little kind of pointy

827
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: parts that go into the seat where you can pull

828
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 1: the head rest off. The ends of them are apes

829
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: very similarly to the kind of tool you would use

830
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: to break a window. So whether or not it's intentional,

831
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: and I certainly think you could use that to break

832
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: a window possibly. I think the problem is when you

833
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: are trying to hold that headdress and then hit the window,

834
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: I think maybe there's a problem. They're in there are two,

835
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: so your decree like having the amount of impact. I

836
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: want the focus to be on a single point with

837
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 1: one of those little hammers or whatever. Yeah, there's also

838
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: a cool trick that you well, you'd probably never do it,

839
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: but it's possible to break a window just using the

840
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: resonance of a soft touch in a pattern. We're singing

841
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: a particularly high note right, which is far out of

842
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,359
Speaker 1: my range. We have one more shut up. This one

843
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: comes from Lena on Twitter tweets at us if you

844
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: dudes are ready to start an adult Triple X space camp,

845
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm in and I probably know other Triple X ladies

846
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: who are super interested as well. What does triple X

847
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: stand for? Is it? Well, is it like the alcohol thing? Yeah,

848
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's on my Alabama Canabama boom. Yeah. Yeah.

849
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: The X does we talked about this owner interview of

850
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: like A Yates. The X does indicate the number of

851
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: times something has been distilled. Oh okay, yeah, exactly, superpotners

852
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: so a, I guess just highly refined. Lena's talking about

853
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: a highly refined space camp for adults. Okay, that's cool.

854
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: I'm done with that and thank you Lena, Nearrison and Kathy.

855
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: This concludes our but not our show, and that's the

856
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts

857
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Speaker 1: or questions about this episode, you can get into contact

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00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,960
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860
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Speaker 1: want to do that, you can send us a good

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Speaker 1: old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

863
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Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

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