1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,280
Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants.

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,600
Speaker 2: Hunt's let's go. Let's go Giants. Get out my Giants, bubble,

3
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,760
Speaker 2: give me some job. Part of the Giants podcast network.

4
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 2: Let's roll.

5
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 3: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Total Podcast, brought

6
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 3: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New

7
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,799
Speaker 3: York Football Giants. I am John Schmelt. Happy to be

8
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 3: joined again. Second time guest Mike Sando. He covers the

9
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,239
Speaker 3: NFL for the Athletic He is a Hall of Fame voter.

10
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 3: You can also find them on the Football GM podcast,

11
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,680
Speaker 3: which is part of the Athletic Football Show Feed, which

12
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 3: I promote a lot on our programming night because I

13
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 3: think you guys all do an excellent job over there.

14
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

15
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,479
Speaker 1: Always have enjoy coming on. I think we were two

16
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,000
Speaker 1: years ago. We were here for maybe a Giants preseason game.

17
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,480
Speaker 1: Had a good conversation, and we'll do it again today.

18
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So let's start here. You're pure Giants camp. We're

19
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 3: recording this just so we have this time. Stamps is

20
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 3: probably not going up until next week. This is Thursday,

21
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,640
Speaker 3: the Giants second day of practice from a national respective.

22
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 3: You show up the Giants camp, what are your goals.

23
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 3: What are you trying to find out? What are you

24
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 3: thinking when you think Giants? Where's your head at heading

25
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 3: into twenty twenty four.

26
00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's two different things for me when I

27
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: come to team. You know, I'm not going for I'm

28
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: not looking at like, hey, who's the hot team this year?

29
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 1: I want to be in that camp. I'm coming to

30
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,120
Speaker 1: renew relationships, create some new relationships. I'm usually working on

31
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,479
Speaker 1: some projects that really aren't specific to the Giants. I'm

32
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,399
Speaker 1: working on things around the league, things that people in

33
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,360
Speaker 1: the league find interesting. I find interesting, love to talk

34
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: to people, get some perspectives. Now that being said, when

35
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,320
Speaker 1: I dial in on the Giants, I think, you know,

36
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,080
Speaker 1: we all know where they're at in the timeline of

37
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: the coach. And so there was so much drama last

38
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: year and intrigue over what was going on with the

39
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 1: staff that I think we've got that component to watch

40
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: just how day Ball handles it. I Mean, he's admitted

41
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: and said he gets a little timpestuous out there, right

42
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 1: will temper. So how does he just sort of handle

43
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 1: this critical year handle the staff. There's been a lot

44
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: of talk about the play calling. Obviously it looks like

45
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 1: he's going to call the plays. But I think that's

46
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: an interesting dynamic. You then layer on top of that

47
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 1: this unique situation where the whole world got to kind

48
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,119
Speaker 1: of see your business on Hard Knocks, Right, So now

49
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: there's an awareness of what the owner was thinking on

50
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 1: Sayquan Barkley, what you could clearly tell what Joe Shane

51
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 1: the GM was thinking. It was a little less clear

52
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 1: where the coach was on some of this stuff, but

53
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 1: that stuff's interesting. So there's just a lot of storylines

54
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,680
Speaker 1: with the quarterback coming back, what is the the what

55
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 1: the running back does for the Eagles seems like it's important,

56
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 1: even though it has nothing to do with the Giants, Right,

57
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 1: So there's just a lot of things here to talk

58
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 1: about that you're not going to figure out in the

59
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 1: first week of camp, but you're definitely gonna watch play

60
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:43,360
Speaker 1: out with a lot of interest.

61
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 2: What was your overall impression watching Hard Knocks at this

62
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,320
Speaker 2: recording were four episodes in, and I think what I

63
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 2: take most out of it is that you know, every

64
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 2: organization will make some good decision decisions and someone make mistakes.

65
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 2: No one's one hundred percent on their decisions in the

66
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,240
Speaker 2: draft or whatever.

67
00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 3: But I think you want to see a good process, right,

68
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,959
Speaker 3: So when you see how the Giants process works, what's

69
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 3: your impression being a guy that talks to a lot

70
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 3: of gms and knows how teams function around the league.

71
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: Well, I know when you do a TV show, you

72
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 1: want to have drama and suspense. So so they're not

73
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 1: going to put together just a bland Hey, this looks

74
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 1: like a good process show. In my opinion, they create

75
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,679
Speaker 1: some drama. I don't think it's necessarily a completely accurate

76
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 1: view into the full complexities of what happened. I was

77
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,160
Speaker 1: struck by this. I thought I was interesting when Joe

78
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 1: Shane said how much I've only watched the first three episodes,

79
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 1: so the fourth one came out, I didn't watch that

80
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: one yet. I will watch it. I've just been on

81
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 1: the road. But when he said talked about the chaos

82
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: of free agency and how much he enjoys the draft

83
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: because in the draft, you just your pick comes up

84
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: and while there's stuff flying around, you just get to

85
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 1: pick a player and you get him. It created the

86
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: impression to me, not being in the building, that wow,

87
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: free agencies out of your control, like like, oh my gosh,

88
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 1: Zavirad McKinney got more than we thought he was going

89
00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: to get. Oh wow, coined ended up with the Eagles.

90
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:07,000
Speaker 1: Instead of creating the impression that, hey, this off season

91
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: in free agency played out exactly how we we thought

92
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: we were in control of it, right. That wasn't the

93
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: message the TV producers sent, and it created a lot

94
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 1: of suspense for the show, but it didn't create the

95
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: impression for me that, uh, oh hey, this fell exactly

96
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 1: how we thought it was going to be. You really

97
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,279
Speaker 1: get the sense that in free agency you're at the

98
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,360
Speaker 1: mercy of a lot of things you can't control.

99
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 3: Which, by the way, is as people like me and

100
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 3: you and you're obviously making phone calls and figure out

101
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,799
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen. But you know, we all have NFL

102
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,680
Speaker 3: network on at four o'clock on that Monday, and we're

103
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,400
Speaker 3: all like whoa, and like who thought DeAndre swipp would

104
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 3: be the first free agent sign? For example, Like stuff

105
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 3: happens that I think, maybe don't realize this. They're surprised

106
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 3: a lot of front office people, and that being surprise too.

107
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know exactly exactly, you don't know what's

108
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 1: going to happen, So you know, I think those are.

109
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:53,680
Speaker 2: That was a part of it.

110
00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 1: To me that was just interesting and from a GM

111
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 1: perspective of Joe saying, you know, hey that the draft,

112
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: which you think the draft is chaotic in its own way,

113
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,160
Speaker 1: but it comes to you a lot more than fre

114
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 1: agency does where you're just really not sure. The other

115
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 1: thing that struck me about it was just it was

116
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,679
Speaker 1: just clear that, you know, Joe wasn't super excited about

117
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: investing in Saquin Barkley. I mean you can just tell that.

118
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: It was like you know, when you tell somebody who's

119
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 1: a valued employee, hey, go check out the market out there,

120
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, then get back to us. I mean, anybody

121
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,720
Speaker 1: who has any employer do that to him doesn't get

122
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 1: back to you know. That's sort of your cue that, hey,

123
00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: if you get something out there, you better take it.

124
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

125
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 3: I don't think it has to do with the person necessarily.

126
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,040
Speaker 3: I think it has more to do with the position.

127
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,320
Speaker 3: Quite frankly, I just think at the running back position,

128
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,480
Speaker 3: it's not something that he valued at that top of

129
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 3: the market, top of angle.

130
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,520
Speaker 1: And see and I think ten out of ten GM's

131
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 1: up on the DAYA said the Sloan Analytics Conference will

132
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,719
Speaker 1: agree with that it's a different equation, a harder equation

133
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: when you're talking about we don't have enough good players

134
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 1: in our team, and he's one of our two or

135
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,479
Speaker 1: three best players, maybe our best players. So can you ever,

136
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 1: that's what you balance. Can you afford to lose your

137
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 1: best player just because it's not a great positional value.

138
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,479
Speaker 1: And so that was just really coming through to me.

139
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,480
Speaker 1: And obviously they played up the part where hey, we can't,

140
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: We're not gonna. We didn't pay Daniel Jones all this

141
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,480
Speaker 1: money to hand off to an expensive running back was

142
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 1: an interesting quote, But I think most people in the

143
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 1: league feel like Daniel Jones needs to hand off to

144
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,680
Speaker 1: a good running back to bounce out the offense, to

145
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: help him out right, to get to who do you

146
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 1: want the defense keing on right? And so it's a

147
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: lot easier, probably the key on Daniel Jones if you

148
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 1: don't have a dynamic back that you're worried about. And

149
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 1: I think Darkley was one of those few backs that

150
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: you worry a little bit about, certainly in the game plan.

151
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 1: And we can debate whether it would have been a

152
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: smart idea to give him all that money at this

153
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 1: age with his injury history. It may not have been,

154
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,599
Speaker 1: but you're not a better team without him, and that's

155
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,119
Speaker 1: just the facts.

156
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 4: You loved turf you're good at it, So you start

157
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,240
Speaker 4: a turf bus business grows, your savings grow, become the

158
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 4: most celebrated name. Are you ready for all that? Life rings? No?

159
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,679
Speaker 2: Hundred percent? And it's funny.

160
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 3: One conversation we've had on all our shows over the

161
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,239
Speaker 3: past five months now is Saquon Barkley's been the guy

162
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 3: every week at defensive coordinator comes in and he has

163
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,400
Speaker 3: the big red SHARPI and he's the guy you circle

164
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 3: on the game plan right, Who's who's the red sharpie guy?

165
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 2: Now?

166
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 3: Like is Daniel Is it gonna be Malik Neighbors at six?

167
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 3: You know, you know they've had more of a run

168
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 3: heavy offense I think the last couple of years because

169
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 3: of Saquan, But you know Brian Dable as well as

170
00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 3: I do, I don't think that guy wants to run

171
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 3: a run heavy offense. I think that guy wants to

172
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 3: throw the.

173
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 1: Football absolutely, and you need a healthy quarterback to do

174
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 1: that and an offensive line that can block. So you know,

175
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 1: I thought it was you know, I read the first

176
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: day of camp coverage and there's all kinds of motions

177
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 1: and Belgian whistles, and so maybe that's what they have

178
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: to do, is really and I think you know some

179
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: of these teams that are in this situation, like I

180
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,840
Speaker 1: see uh, you know, Doug Peterson to some extent in Jacksonville,

181
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: these offensive coaches who have delegated some and there's been

182
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 1: some ambiguity exactly to who's calling what hey when you're

183
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 1: when the ship's starting to you know, when the ships

184
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,160
Speaker 1: eat are going to sink or go, those guys got

185
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 1: to take control of the offense sometimes. So is that

186
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 1: what Dave Ball is going to do and try to

187
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: scheme this thing up and get the absolute most out

188
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 1: of what, in the short term is certainly a different offense.

189
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 1: And depending on how good Leak neighbors is and replacements

190
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 1: are for say Quin Barkley, you know, is it a

191
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:25,880
Speaker 1: more talent one? We don't know.

192
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 3: Joe Shane thought was pretty clear yesterday talking about Daniel

193
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 3: Jones in his contract that look, this is the year

194
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 3: that you have to find out, right, because you have

195
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 3: a decision to make after the season based on the

196
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 3: contract and from what I could tell watching the way

197
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 3: they've operated and talked about it. This offseason, they're trying

198
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 3: to put the best situation around Daniel that they can.

199
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 3: They give them the best chance to succeed. And let's

200
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 3: be honest, since he's been here, they have not had

201
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,680
Speaker 3: a top receiving corps, they have not had a top

202
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 3: offensive line. And I don't think I would characterize either

203
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 3: one of those groups as a top five, top ten

204
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 3: group this year. Right, But can you get to all

205
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 3: right league average? Can you get the functional to see

206
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 3: exactly to make the most informed decision you can about

207
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 3: your quarterback next offseason?

208
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 2: Yep?

209
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 1: And they made a couple moves with guard. We saw that,

210
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: and you know they're gonna need a little bit better

211
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,679
Speaker 1: health probably elsewhere on the line, and yeah, that's gonna

212
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 1: be a huge key to the season. So we just

213
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that yet, but you know

214
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:20,959
Speaker 1: we'll find out soon.

215
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

216
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 3: I have not had a chance to listen to your

217
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 3: last couple of podcasts with Randy Mueller. We had him

218
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,280
Speaker 3: on our show back in April. Awesome guy. You guys

219
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 3: do a great job on the football GM again Athletic

220
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 3: Football Show'll check it out. What's his reaction to seeing

221
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,240
Speaker 3: this part of what his job used to be being

222
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,240
Speaker 3: played out on camera on Hard Knocks.

223
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 2: The way this has been.

224
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: Fat Well, he wouldn't like it. I think most people wouldn't.

225
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm sure Joe would rather not

226
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,240
Speaker 1: have it, right, I mean, just nobody. That's why teams

227
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,480
Speaker 1: try to get out of these things, right.

228
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 3: I think every team would avoid every version of Hard Knocks,

229
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 3: except for maybe Jerry Jones and the Cowboys.

230
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 2: I feel like they lead into it a little bit.

231
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 2: Everyone else, I think wants to avoid it.

232
00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,840
Speaker 1: I agree because Jerry Jones is is is a show

233
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,880
Speaker 1: and then wants to promote the product first, really, and

234
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,200
Speaker 1: so most teams are not set up that way. So,

235
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's we had or anything. I

236
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,320
Speaker 1: did have a conversation about that component of the chaos

237
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 1: of free agency versus the and that it takes. The

238
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: chaos of free agency is not for everyone. That's a

239
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,880
Speaker 1: hard process to handle, and a lot of times the

240
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 1: general managers, just through their training don't necessarily that's not

241
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: necessarily their wheelhouse, right, Or some guys come up in

242
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: the draft is their thing.

243
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been in college scouts or.

244
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,840
Speaker 1: College scouts or whatever. So it's a lot on the

245
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: plate of the GM. There's a lot of player on

246
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 1: the GM who is, like I said, many cases, you're

247
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,080
Speaker 1: learning on the job as a GM because there's no

248
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,559
Speaker 1: way to know. You're not going to know all the

249
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 1: aspects of this thing.

250
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 3: Football season is coming and so was the next college semester.

251
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,200
Speaker 3: If you need funding, a Citizen Student loan could help

252
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,680
Speaker 3: you pay for one hundred percent of your school certified costs.

253
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,079
Speaker 3: Get your re quote in about two minutes at citizensbank

254
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 3: dot com. Slash pay for college. Citizens is a proudsponsor

255
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 3: of the Giants Total podcast and the official bank of

256
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 3: the New York Football Giants.

257
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:04,720
Speaker 2: Mike.

258
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,480
Speaker 3: The other big addition that we saw in Hard Knots

259
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 3: was the addition of Brian Burns, and I think, yeah,

260
00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 3: you know, Giants historically, as you well know, have been

261
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 3: a defensive front type of team, and they've been good.

262
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 2: They've had a really good defensive front.

263
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,000
Speaker 3: And I don't think we know exactly what this front's

264
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 3: going to be, but I think they do have pieces

265
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,920
Speaker 3: in place, whether it's Bobby Ocake a linebacker at the edge,

266
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 3: guys in Thimbadau and Burns, Dexter Lawrence in the middle.

267
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 3: For the first time in a long time. This is

268
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 3: actually a defensive front that I think can compete with

269
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 3: Dallas and Philly in the division, which frankly, since the

270
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 3: heyday of the you know, the Justin Tuck defensive lines,

271
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,679
Speaker 3: they really haven't had a group like this together in

272
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 3: a long.

273
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 1: Time, I would agree. I think Brian Burns was one

274
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: of those players that a couple of years ago you

275
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 1: would have been surprised would be moved on from. But

276
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 1: in this league, when you have so many changes, especially

277
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 1: in a place like Carolina, all of a sudden, this

278
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,160
Speaker 1: guy who's young and is a really good player becomes

279
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,800
Speaker 1: available for probably a lower cost of return of draft

280
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 1: choices than anyone would have thought at one time. Now

281
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,680
Speaker 1: you have to pay him a ton of money. But

282
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: I agree, I think that was a nice addition for them,

283
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,200
Speaker 1: and and you know, it was interesting to me. We

284
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,040
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about some of the coaching turnover.

285
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 1: I think it's important to them, but the defense is

286
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: better this year. I think it's important today because you

287
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 1: had this name coordinator and that was its own sort

288
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 1: of story and a little bit of a sideshow at

289
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 1: the times last year at the end of the year,

290
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: for sure, But I think I think it's just such

291
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 1: an important year, pivotal year for so many people in

292
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 1: this organization. I think that move of Burns, my mind

293
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 1: went to, Okay, we can't be getting worse on defense

294
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,240
Speaker 1: now after making this high profile change and just where

295
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,440
Speaker 1: we're at, and like you said, the evolution of the offense, right,

296
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,199
Speaker 1: maybe there's going to be some growing pains as Daniel

297
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: Jones comes back as the line tries to gel already

298
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 1: an injury on the first day of camp, as you

299
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: don't have barklay and you're looking for your identity. The

300
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,319
Speaker 1: best way to weather that is to not allow a

301
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 1: lot of points, right and really to have a good defense.

302
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 1: And we see if you have a good defense, you're

303
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,120
Speaker 1: not going to be that bad of a team. You

304
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: have to be super bad on offense, which is possible,

305
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: but hopefully, like we said, for the reasons you talked about,

306
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:07,920
Speaker 1: isn't the case again for the Giants.

307
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,319
Speaker 3: A guy like Burns, to me is an interesting evaluation,

308
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 3: right because when he was coming out, I loved his pass,

309
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,400
Speaker 3: rush repertoire. He's got every move in the book. He

310
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 3: can rush, speed, power, he can do all that. Yet

311
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,439
Speaker 3: you look at his production, it's been solid, but he's

312
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 3: only crested past nine sacks once, right, Yeah, And I

313
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 3: wonder from your perspective, and I wonder if you and

314
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,080
Speaker 3: Randy have talked about this at all, the fact that

315
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 3: his team has frankly been bad for most of the

316
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 3: time he's been there. And you're a guy that's a

317
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 3: pass rusher, and as you well know, pass rushers have

318
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 3: their most success when their teams have leads. Other teams

319
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:38,679
Speaker 3: have to throw it and you know you can get

320
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 3: after the passer. How much do you think his numbers

321
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 3: and just sack numbers specifically, because I think you go back,

322
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 3: you watch the tape and you still see all the

323
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 3: same talent you've always so seen. How much is his

324
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,480
Speaker 3: numbers you think depressed a little bit sack wise because

325
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 3: of the game flow that he's been involved in a lot,

326
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,679
Speaker 3: whereas seems trailing in a lot of these games, other

327
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 3: teams don't have to, you know, go into pass mode

328
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 3: and it's a little bit more difficult to rush the passer.

329
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,000
Speaker 1: I would not I would cut that also. Its just

330
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 1: the energy of your team and just how do you

331
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: feel about things when you look at the way it's

332
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 1: been there. I think it's been a hard place to

333
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 1: come to work and really feel great about things. You

334
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: know that they've they've churned through coaches you know there

335
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 1: over the years. And look, Brian Burns wanted out that

336
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 1: That's why he was one of the main reasons why

337
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: he was available, is because he want to be there either, right,

338
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,320
Speaker 1: And so I think there's a malaise in an organization

339
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: like that. On top of what you talked about, you're

340
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: you're you know, when you have a team that your

341
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: players think has a chance, I think you get better

342
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 1: play out of guys. It's just human nature. And sure

343
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: you're a professional, and I'm sure Brian Burns has played hard,

344
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 1: but it's different when your team's good. So I would

345
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 1: hope from a giant standpoint that hey, he got he's

346
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 1: just a little bump of not being in Carolina. Even

347
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: if the situation here has its own history that recently

348
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: that hasn't been all that all that great, it's better

349
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 1: certainly a newer for him. You may just get a

350
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: little bit of a bump from leaving Carolina and being

351
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 1: in a better situation. That being said, are there is

352
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: this team going to be ahead all the time? You know,

353
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: it's putting up twenty five points a game. I think

354
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: that would be a revelation too.

355
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

356
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, all right, question about the league, then, I want

357
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 3: a couple of Hall of Fame questions for you.

358
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 2: NFC East.

359
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 3: The Eagles, I think no one would argue they probably

360
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 3: have the most talent in the division, but we also

361
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 3: saw how they absolutely fell apart at the end of

362
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 3: last year in a really weird way. I still haven't

363
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 3: quite figured out why all that happened. Two new coordinators Dallas.

364
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 3: We know about all the contracts that they have to

365
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 3: figure out. They lost almost a eight to a dozen

366
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 3: players in the offseason, maybe not their stars, but guys

367
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 3: that were big parts of.

368
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, their starting group.

369
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 3: So how do you view the nfcast and any of

370
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 3: the commanders do with the rookie quarterback, whole new regime there,

371
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 3: How do you see this division kind of playing out

372
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 3: over the course of the year.

373
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,600
Speaker 1: So I would lean towards Dallas. I mean I think

374
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 1: Dallas has I think Dallas now for the last three

375
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 1: seasons as the second best record in the league.

376
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 2: Too well, wins all three years.

377
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I would start there. I think the Eagles

378
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 1: are in a weird spot because because I think their

379
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 1: roster has some challenges when you lose guys like Jason

380
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 1: Kelcey and Fletcher Cox that are the glue up the middle,

381
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 1: big locker room guys. Remember their quarterback, Jalen Hurts had

382
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of a shaky season last year, And

383
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 1: so I think they're really interesting with volatile storylines because

384
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: I think they clearly missed Chainstike and he was a

385
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: big part of what they did in offense. Absolutely, and

386
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: now you're bringing in Kellen Moore, who is one of

387
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 1: those offens the coordinators perceived to want to pass the

388
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 1: ball a lot, but you just signed Sakwan Barkley. You

389
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 1: have a quarterback who's been best when he's sort of

390
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,560
Speaker 1: part of the run game, and everyone's respecting that run

391
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: game and he's not having to throw.

392
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 2: It all the time part of their offense. Yeah.

393
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of

394
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 1: things just took half a step back for them, Like, hey,

395
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: the tush push is that as good without Kelsey?

396
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:57,800
Speaker 2: A great question?

397
00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,880
Speaker 1: Great question. I don't think so. And look, you give

398
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 1: a another year of teams gearing up for that. So

399
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 1: let's just say they lose a little bit of effectiveness

400
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: there I think it's a high pressure market in a

401
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 1: high pressure situation with super high expectations. So now after

402
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,360
Speaker 1: with a lot of with like bringing in a Fangio,

403
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: bringing in a Kellen Moore, guys who could be head

404
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 1: coaches or have been or maybe want to be. Uh

405
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 1: with Nick Sirianni who sort of lost a little bit

406
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 1: of the footing last year, You've got an active front office,

407
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 1: Like I said, the media market there, you can't you

408
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: just see week two, Hey, coach Saquon only got fourteen touches.

409
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 1: You think you're gonna try to get in the ball

410
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 1: next week, and then Seque's on a podcast that week

411
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,120
Speaker 1: or whatever, and then a you know, the receivers are

412
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,360
Speaker 1: making a ton of money and those guys didn't get

413
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 1: their touches this week because they went to Saque and

414
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 1: now they're two and two. I just I think that's

415
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 1: a potentially volatile situation there where we look, they're good,

416
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,960
Speaker 1: they're talented, but I just don't I think there's potential

417
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,479
Speaker 1: for that to go sideways a little bite. And so

418
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,400
Speaker 1: that's why I don't feel quite as bullish on them,

419
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,640
Speaker 1: even though I think they're like said, they're good, they're talented,

420
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 1: but where's this headed in the year for them? I

421
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 1: think is an interesting question.

422
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens,

423
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 4: so go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.

424
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

425
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 4: you ready for all that life brings?

426
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah?

427
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 2: I think so too.

428
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 3: I think it'll be very fun to watch. All right,

429
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame stuff. We have Bob Globern here doing

430
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 3: NFL on. Bob's the best. We love Bob.

431
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 2: He's retired now. I talked to Bob yesterday.

432
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 1: I talked about yesterday. Yeah, yeah, I love Bob what

433
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: he got.

434
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 3: So we were talking about the Hall of Fame stuff,

435
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 3: and the Giants have a couple guys that are in

436
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 3: the mix here. Tom Coughlin was already in the mix

437
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 3: last year, so why don't we start there. He's obviously

438
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 3: part of the contributor category, not part of the player

439
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 3: category to Super Bowl titles. I don't think there's any

440
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 3: doubt he's going to get in at some point. I

441
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 3: don't know what do you think about that? How do

442
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 3: you think is looking for him in terms of the

443
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: other guys that are coming up in that contributor category.

444
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, So a couple of years ago, Robert Kraft was

445
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: super close to making it, almost made it in and

446
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: then hasn't. The last couple of years he's gotten close.

447
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 1: Mike Holmgren has been very close too. Last year was

448
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of a weird year because Buddy Parker

449
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: made it along with the hooks from the Lions, but

450
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: then the full committee rejected him, which is a very

451
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: unusual thing. Once you get out of that subcommittee, usually

452
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: you're going to get in it. Very rarely would it

453
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: get kicked back. But he got kicked back, so I

454
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,959
Speaker 1: think he's out of the mix, which, even though it's

455
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 1: bad for him and probably a little bit bad for

456
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: the process, helps a Coughlin like everyone sort of moves

457
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 1: up a notch. Very difficult to predict though, how it goes,

458
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: And I know each one of these candidates feels like

459
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: when they don't make it an year that they were rejected,

460
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 1: and that's not really the way it is. It's just

461
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: when you get you know, twelve or thirteen people in

462
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,199
Speaker 1: a room hashing it out and then the votes get

463
00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 1: split up different ways, you're left sometimes scratching your head like, okay,

464
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 1: how did that happen this year, and trying to explain

465
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 1: it almost is impossible. It's just they're all pretty good

466
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 1: candidates that there was a year done. Coriel got it,

467
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: and I know that was going to happen, right man,

468
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: And it's fine. I mean, Don Coriel was you know,

469
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: obviously passed away, but it was waiting a long time

470
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: and had had his own case. So I think the

471
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: thing about Coughlin is I like it when coaches succeed

472
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: in more than one place. There's certain candidates who just

473
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: have a great you know, Bill Belichick with the Patriots,

474
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 1: it's it's an amazing run with one team and he

475
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: gets in. But some of these guys who go to

476
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 1: more than one team, I really hold that in high regard.

477
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: I think it's hard to win in multiple places.

478
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: That's the fact that he built Jack.

479
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: In turn places. So that's why I think Coughlin. I

480
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: think Mike Holmgren was able to do that. Go to

481
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 1: Green Bay, go to Seattle, your super Bowl team, both places.

482
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 1: Even Don Coriel was knocked for not winning the Super Bowl,

483
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 1: but went to the Cardinals and they were horrible, and

484
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 1: then had him win in a ton of games with

485
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: a great offense and then went to the Chargers, who

486
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: were horrible and had to win in a ton of

487
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: games with the records set offense. To me, that's really

488
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: a great way to measure some of these coaches because

489
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard to turn places and when you

490
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to also know where who gets the credit

491
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: is that the quarterback, is, the defense is how much

492
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: is the head coach? But when the head coach drives

493
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: success more in one place, I really pay attention.

494
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: And then it didn't end well.

495
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 3: But he eventually went back to Jacksonville, was a GM

496
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 3: there and he got that team within a player or

497
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 3: two from a super Bowl in the AFC Championship game

498
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 3: that year.

499
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: That's an interesting one because I think most people would

500
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: not perceive that to have been a positive experience for him.

501
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: And there was some other stuff that went on there

502
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, sort of the old school

503
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: approach with the with the players in Jalen Ramsey got.

504
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: And in fairness, the year after that, the team fell

505
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 3: off a cliff and those South Cap.

506
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: Issues I don't only look at when I look at

507
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: Coughlin's Canadacy, I don't really look at the second Jacksonville

508
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: stint as a as a good or bad I just

509
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: sort of put it off for the side. I think

510
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: we're evaluating him as a coach. Yeah, I'm with you

511
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: on that with these places.

512
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 3: So yeah, all right, then how about finally Eli Manning?

513
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 3: He he's coming up here. How do you think that

514
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: conversation is going to go? I imagine it's going to be

515
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,479
Speaker 3: polarizing your playoff success with regular season success and everything

516
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: that goes along with it.

517
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: It's not, it's a really fascinating one. It's because he

518
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: played a really long time and was good, uh and

519
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: won two Super Bowls playing lights out ball against good,

520
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: reallygue top teams.

521
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: How important are those eight games in the playoffs? Right?

522
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: Hugely important? Like, like you know, it's just this is

523
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: a little bit of a cynical take, but uh, Joe

524
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: Flacco did it for one playoffs, Eli Manning did it

525
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 1: for two. There the difference between the rest of the

526
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: resumes is probably not as great as you think.

527
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: I think Eli did it for a little bit longer,

528
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: a little bit longer. But that game, how do.

529
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: We put that into like, like to me, uh, Eli's

530
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: definitely got you know, a better a better case than

531
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: like a Jim Plunkett who won two with the Raiders,

532
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: but then was really you know, didn't play a lot

533
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: of earliers. It was hurt sort of a like, and

534
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: then was on these just amazing team stack with Hall

535
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: of famers. But I also never felt like he was

536
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 1: just a year in, year out, top three, top five

537
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: quarterback in the league.

538
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a top ten, but yeah, yeah, yeah, but

539
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 2: not top three.

540
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wouldn't have put him in there with the

541
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: Rogerses and and you know, Breeze won one Super Bowl,

542
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: but I think most people would say, you know, Breeze

543
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: was really driving an amazing game.

544
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: You know, I had that one amazing offensive year and

545
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 3: eleven that was the one year that really stood out.

546
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: But he wasn't consistently.

547
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: And there's what he's got gone. Though, played a long time,

548
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: two Super Bowls, huge stage, great last name, playing for

549
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: the Giants. I think that stuff helps. I think his

550
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: last name was Jones, and he was playing for Jacksonville

551
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 1: and they won a couple. It can be harder to

552
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: build a case or have the momentum around him.

553
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: And that was also everywhere in the media. By the

554
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 3: way people see his face all the time. Also doesn't

555
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: hurt it totally.

556
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: I think it helps a lot of these guys. I

557
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: think it helped Bill Cower and Jimmy Johnson probably L

558
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: Davis absolutely talked about a couple of these other guys like, uh,

559
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: like like those coaches a Cower and h and Jimmy

560
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: Johnson on TV versus like like a Mike Holmgren or

561
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: a Tom Coughlin who have kind of gone their own way.

562
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: They're not on TV all the time.

563
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: Tom Coughlin, not the TV analyst type. No, I think

564
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: that stuff.

565
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: I think it affects. It doesn't. It doesn't make or

566
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: break a guy getting in. Those guys are all going

567
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: to get in. But I think it can help, uh,

568
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: someone feel relevant sooner, whereas someone else you have to

569
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: sort of build a case around right and and there

570
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: an awareness can arise over time to where somebody gets

571
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: in deservedly. So I think he, like Manning, bypasses a

572
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: lot of that. Everyone knows it's recent, So I'm fascinated.

573
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 2: I don't know.

574
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,959
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really have a sense for how

575
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: it's going to go. Is it going to be everyone's

576
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: on board? Is there someone going to push back really hard?

577
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 4: Uh?

578
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I think it'll be fun, though.

579
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: I might feel free to promote anything that you're writing,

580
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: you're getting ready, or you have up on the athletic

581
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: tell the folks what you're up to.

582
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: Well, you can always count on the quarterback tiers to

583
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: come out.

584
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: But what is that.

585
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Well, uh, well, I think that's gonna be coming out

586
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: in August. I can say that, but I don't know,

587
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: or if I don't know, if I don't know, if

588
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: I even know the exact date. But it's it's coming

589
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: a little bit later this year. Sometimes it would have

590
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: already run by now, But.

591
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: You're doing after your camp tour.

592
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: Yes, it'll it'll probably run after my camp tour.

593
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: Where else?

594
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: Yelling by the way, So I've got I was at

595
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: the Patriots yesterday. I do Giants today, Jets tomorrow, and

596
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna go to the Eagles, and then I'm

597
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: going to go to the Commanders and the Ravens, and

598
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna head back home. Sometimes I go out

599
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: on the road for two weeks. This year, I'm doing one.

600
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: I love to get on the road. I went to

601
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of teams during June camps. Oh, nice, good,

602
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: Probably six or seven teams. Then, so I love being

603
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: on the road, but you're not as productive, like as first,

604
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: like getting actual work done. So of course I'm kinda

605
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: I love doing this, and I'm gonna get back to

606
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: my office and get some you know, get some stuff written.

607
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: And then I also take your time to do things

608
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: like this, or you're not getting your work done either.

609
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 3: Do you have any Egypt themed shirts ready for jets

610
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: Camp tomorrow? Do you have any pyramids going a Sphinx

611
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 3: maybe something like that?

612
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: Now, I don't.

613
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: I think that's probably good that I don't.

614
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 2: I think I think I think you're probably right. My

615
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: good stuff. Man, always a pleasure to talk appreciate.

616
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: Mike Sandel and the Giants Huddle podcast brought to you

617
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: by Citizens, the Official Bank of the Giants.

618
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. Everybody,