WEBVTT - Kindness: Do It

0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Heayan, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's here

0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:15.760
<v Speaker 2>and Jerry's here and this is Stuff you should Know

0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's a podcast and the three of us are

0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>part of it.

0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is an article on the science of kindness,

0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:29.520
<v Speaker 1>which somehow put me in a bad mood. I don't

0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.840
<v Speaker 1>know what that says about me. I don't know why.

0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why either. It's very odd, but I

0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of know what you're talking about. If we're like,

0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.640
<v Speaker 2>the topic overall that we're going to talk about, I

0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.960
<v Speaker 2>think is going to bring joy to people. But they'll

0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.880
<v Speaker 2>get angry along the way. But hopefully when by the

0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.239
<v Speaker 2>time we're done, those who are still listening will be like,

0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.200
<v Speaker 2>all right, I'm feeling good again.

0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.040
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's talk about it, and let's start with animals,

0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.800
<v Speaker 1>because in fact, we can direct people too. We did

0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.640
<v Speaker 1>a great episode I think on animal altruism.

0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Is that what it was called, Yeah, biological altruism something

0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.240
<v Speaker 2>like that, where we talked about this sort of leading

0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.199
<v Speaker 2>fact as we lead into humans and kindness, the fact

0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.400
<v Speaker 2>that you know, animals all throughout.

0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.680
<v Speaker 1>The animal world display acts of kindness, and many times

0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.440
<v Speaker 1>they are altruistic in that they're not looking for anything

0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.520
<v Speaker 1>other than to help out their bird meat or monkey

0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.039
<v Speaker 1>meat or ant meat.

0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you short on last minute gift ideas, go look

0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.600
<v Speaker 2>in on what the macaques are given each other kindness.

0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.880
<v Speaker 2>So it's in animals, we know that, we have evidence

0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.959
<v Speaker 2>of it. Yeah, it's also in humans. We have pretty

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.320
<v Speaker 2>good evidence of that too, that kindness is a thing.

0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.440
<v Speaker 2>But it definitely seems the fact that it's in animals

0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.360
<v Speaker 2>as well suggests that it's in us on some genetic level.

0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.840
<v Speaker 2>It's not just society being like be kind rewind, you know,

0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:58.320
<v Speaker 2>like like there's an actual imperative, a biological imperative for it.

0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.520
<v Speaker 2>And what's odd about is that most people would think

0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.400
<v Speaker 2>that flies in the face of survival of the fittest. Basically,

0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Darwin's whole jam that you know, looking out for number

0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.560
<v Speaker 2>one is kind of it might not be the antithesis

0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.040
<v Speaker 2>of kindness, but it certainly doesn't go hand in hand.

0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.560
<v Speaker 2>And yet when you dig into Darwin you're like, oh,

0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:19.640
<v Speaker 2>he was actually big time into kindness.

0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he talked, He wrote a lot of stuff about

0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.960
<v Speaker 1>communities cooperating and not just like hey, it's better if

0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.760
<v Speaker 1>you cooperate and to go kill that wooly mammoth. But

0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.800
<v Speaker 1>but like compassion and empathy are are are markers of

0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.400
<v Speaker 1>a healthy community and a community that will survive in

0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:40.240
<v Speaker 1>a fitter way.

0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like if Tuktok pushed jib Job out of the

0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:45.840
<v Speaker 2>way right as he was about to throw a spear

0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.600
<v Speaker 2>into the wooly mammoth, JibJab took took, took the shot

0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and took the mammoth down and got all the praise.

0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.919
<v Speaker 2>He's got hurt feelings between him and jib Job, right.

0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:58.680
<v Speaker 1>He's got to go to Jim introducing a new character.

0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's happening before your very.

0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Eyes, while it's exciting in you're sixteen.

0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so like in those communities and communities now, like

0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.360
<v Speaker 2>the thing that just kind of keeps things not just

0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.920
<v Speaker 2>going the you can go as a society in a

0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.480
<v Speaker 2>dystopian manner, but it's not a good society. It's not thriving.

0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the thing that makes it thrive, and then

0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.600
<v Speaker 2>a thriving society is much more likely to survive and

0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.120
<v Speaker 2>reproduce because everybody wants it to because they're having a

0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.240
<v Speaker 2>great time. Are things like kindness it's one of those

0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.480
<v Speaker 2>lubricators that helps us society go from surviving to thriving.

0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:38.280
<v Speaker 1>I agree. And it's also something that you know you see, well,

0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.920
<v Speaker 1>hopefully you see firsthand when you have a kid. If

0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.839
<v Speaker 1>you don't, that doesn't mean that you know your child

0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.480
<v Speaker 1>is broken, because there are all kinds of reasons that

0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.920
<v Speaker 1>a kid may not just sort of be innately kind.

0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:55.000
<v Speaker 1>They might not like you, maybe you're the problem, dad,

0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:00.640
<v Speaker 1>But the study after study has shown that men children

0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:05.000
<v Speaker 1>are sort of innately kind to other people. And that,

0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.240
<v Speaker 1>of course, this is just me editorializing the second part,

0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.040
<v Speaker 1>and it is later as you grow up and be

0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.080
<v Speaker 1>a cynical adult, is when those kindnesses go away. But

0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.680
<v Speaker 1>you see examples all the time when you have a kid,

0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.920
<v Speaker 1>of your kid and other children and their friends and

0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.520
<v Speaker 1>classmates being kind to one another, and it's it is

0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.680
<v Speaker 1>truly heartwarming to see and makes you think, like, oh,

0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.080
<v Speaker 1>like maybe because this is what we're kind of talking about,

0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.839
<v Speaker 1>like are we innately good people like as humans? And

0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.200
<v Speaker 1>those examples kind of indicate that, yeah, we maybe are

0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.560
<v Speaker 1>good humans to begin with, like, and we're going to

0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.640
<v Speaker 1>talk about a lot of studies and experiments in this episode,

0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.560
<v Speaker 1>but This one was one where they had a kid

0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.320
<v Speaker 1>and they had some treats like little candies or something.

0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.080
<v Speaker 2>They had goldfish or Teddy grams.

0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.400
<v Speaker 1>I was just I was trying to not name check,

0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.040
<v Speaker 1>but sure.

0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Those are money treats, man, they deserve, like we need

0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.240
<v Speaker 2>to lay it out there just how valuable these treats were.

0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:07.320
<v Speaker 1>And then they had these little puppet puppets. I was

0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna say puppet things, but puppets are puppets. So what

0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.920
<v Speaker 1>they would do was and what they're trying to get

0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.720
<v Speaker 1>at is like how happy did because you know, that's

0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.479
<v Speaker 1>sort of at the root of all all this is like,

0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.000
<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk later about when you receive a kindness.

0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Of course that makes sense that you're gonna feel great,

0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.400
<v Speaker 1>but does it feel good and make you happy to

0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.600
<v Speaker 1>do a kindness? And so they had this little puppets

0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.320
<v Speaker 1>and they said, all right, we're going to give these

0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.359
<v Speaker 1>puppets a goldfish sometimes and we're going to see how

0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.840
<v Speaker 1>happy that makes you. A little kid, We're going to

0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.240
<v Speaker 1>give you a goldfish to give to that puppet. We're

0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna see how happy that makes you. And then we're

0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.560
<v Speaker 1>gonna also just give you a bunch of goldfish and

0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.720
<v Speaker 1>say those are yours, but maybe you should give the

0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.320
<v Speaker 1>puppet one of your own. And the ones where the

0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.680
<v Speaker 1>like the happiest kids were the ones where they are

0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:59.920
<v Speaker 1>instances at least, were the ones where the kids gay

0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.239
<v Speaker 1>of their own stash, of their own head stash right

0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:05.800
<v Speaker 1>to these puppets.

0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Like they were happy seeing the puppet get a treat, sure,

0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.719
<v Speaker 2>but they were happier to give that puppet a treat

0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:13.800
<v Speaker 2>of its own, right.

0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And they weren't necessarily doing that so they would

0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:17.080
<v Speaker 1>look good for the study.

0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.320
<v Speaker 2>It seems exactly these were toddlers. I think they were

0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.359
<v Speaker 2>two or less two or younger. There's another study that

0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.359
<v Speaker 2>kind of found something similar that paid attention to little

0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:33.560
<v Speaker 2>kids and how they responded to a grown up needing help,

0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:39.680
<v Speaker 2>and they showed that kids definitely do enter distress might

0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.600
<v Speaker 2>be kind of a harsh word for it, but there's

0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.200
<v Speaker 2>a concern state that's much better. They are concerned. And

0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.240
<v Speaker 2>apparently you can track that by your pupils dilating. And

0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.479
<v Speaker 2>this is the Max Planck Institute, so they're pretty legit,

0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.479
<v Speaker 2>but they were tracking kids pupils dilating. So an adult

0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.920
<v Speaker 2>would drop something and have trouble picking it up and

0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.240
<v Speaker 2>the kids pupils would dilate, so they were concerned. The

0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:07.360
<v Speaker 2>kids became happiest or became less concerned or unconcerned when

0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.400
<v Speaker 2>they were able to help, But then second to that,

0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.960
<v Speaker 2>they were also unconcerned. They stopped feeling concerned after they

0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.920
<v Speaker 2>saw somebody else help the grown up. So it's not

0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.000
<v Speaker 2>like you were saying, it's not just about getting credit.

0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.960
<v Speaker 2>It's not just about thinking you're making adults happy. Like

0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.320
<v Speaker 2>these kids were genuinely relieved to see somebody getting help

0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.520
<v Speaker 2>even when they couldn't help them, And that helps underscore

0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the idea that yeah, or were biologically kind in our genes.

0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Did the people who organize the study account did they

0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.840
<v Speaker 1>make sure they just accounted for the dilation of pupils

0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.560
<v Speaker 1>by making sure testing these kids for methan fetibine us.

0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's that's step one a p test.

0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right, that checks out. Then.

0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the ones who they find outside of the

0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.640
<v Speaker 2>lab hours before sunrise digging a hole inexplicably, they pretty

0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.160
<v Speaker 2>much just get them out of the population right away.

0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:08.920
<v Speaker 1>So people have been trying to I guess group and

0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.800
<v Speaker 1>measure and come up with scales on how to measure

0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.720
<v Speaker 1>kindness and happiness and stuff like that for a long

0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.640
<v Speaker 1>long time. And one way to measure it that they've

0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.600
<v Speaker 1>come up with is something called the Interpersonal Reactivity Index,

0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.800
<v Speaker 1>which is sort of an empathy measurement, which is great.

0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.680
<v Speaker 1>There's another one called the Inventory of Strengths that looks

0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:36.440
<v Speaker 1>at behavior treats kindness as a behavior. But these researchers

0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:41.599
<v Speaker 1>at Huddlesfield University of Huddlesfield in the UK in twenty seventeen,

0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.040
<v Speaker 1>they're like, all right, let's create a scale that's going

0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.920
<v Speaker 1>to measure like different aspects of being kind and see

0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.679
<v Speaker 1>if we can group them. And they did. They had

0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.439
<v Speaker 1>a forty item question in airon ended up clustering into

0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:58.240
<v Speaker 1>three groups, the first one being benign tolerance, which it's

0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:02.720
<v Speaker 1>like an everyday kindness, like hey you got groceries, why

0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.600
<v Speaker 1>don't you take my seat on the subway? That kind

0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.240
<v Speaker 1>of thing. Yeah, it's a kindness, Yeah, it's an everyday

0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:13.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of kindness. Empathetic responsivity responsivity yeah yeah, is the

0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.960
<v Speaker 1>next one, and that is a more emotional and then

0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.000
<v Speaker 1>much more personal and much more specific to a person.

0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, like this is somebody you have what they consider

0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.320
<v Speaker 2>strong ties to like a close friend or a family

0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.680
<v Speaker 2>member or something like that. So you're doing something kind

0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.720
<v Speaker 2>to them maybe when they need help, responding to them empathetically.

0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Which is great, really really well said yeah. And then

0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.960
<v Speaker 1>the last one is principal proaction, and this is altruism

0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.880
<v Speaker 1>but a little less emotional, like, you know, go look

0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:47.520
<v Speaker 1>at my record books. I give a lot of money

0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:48.079
<v Speaker 1>to charity.

0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Sure. So what they found though, so all of the

0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.400
<v Speaker 2>forty questions on the inventory, those they all basically clustered

0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.680
<v Speaker 2>into those three umbrellas. But they found three different things

0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.200
<v Speaker 2>that were common to all three of the little islands

0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of kindness, and those were they were, Yeah, Islands of

0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:13.199
<v Speaker 2>Kindness is a great band name, You're right, synthpop. Sure,

0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.600
<v Speaker 2>so they were I feel sorry for other people when

0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.600
<v Speaker 2>they experience problems. I like to make other people feel happy,

0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.080
<v Speaker 2>and people think I have a soft heart. And what

0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.280
<v Speaker 2>they came to, uh to kind of identify those three

0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:33.600
<v Speaker 2>things together that showed up under principal pact proaction, empathetic responsivity,

0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and benign tolerance. They can they said that that's your

0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.960
<v Speaker 2>core kindness. But that's that's the that's the basic thing

0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.560
<v Speaker 2>that makes people genuinely kind. Those are the things that

0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.440
<v Speaker 2>if you put those three things together, you have a

0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.440
<v Speaker 2>kind person. You can have other people doing kind things,

0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.360
<v Speaker 2>but they're not necessarily kind. And they even had a

0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.760
<v Speaker 2>measurement of unkindness. Nine of the questions were basically like

0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.600
<v Speaker 2>are you a jerk? Answer yes or no? They're like,

0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.559
<v Speaker 2>come on, answer that was question two. Be honest was

0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.000
<v Speaker 2>question three, and so on and so forth. And they

0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.280
<v Speaker 2>found that people who rated as unkind, say in one thing,

0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe benign tolerance, they still rated highly in

0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.200
<v Speaker 2>empathetic responsivity or principal pro action. So it's not like

0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.280
<v Speaker 2>even if you're unkind on paper that you don't do

0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.640
<v Speaker 2>kind things. What they were saying is genuinely kind people

0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:25.960
<v Speaker 2>check those three boxes.

0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think on the questionnaire it should say are

0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.960
<v Speaker 1>you a jerk? And the only option is no? And

0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.160
<v Speaker 1>then the next question is do other people think you're

0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.880
<v Speaker 1>a jerk? And the only option is yes. Between those

0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.840
<v Speaker 1>two is the truth. They also found that women scored

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:47.560
<v Speaker 1>higher than men generally speaking, and very specifically on benign

0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 1>tolerance and principal pro action. Yeah, and this was very interesting.

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 1>There was no overall difference based on the age of

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the participant, but if you were over forty, then you

0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.720
<v Speaker 1>would score higher on Prince pro action, which kind of

0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.800
<v Speaker 1>makes sense if that's like giving to charity, because I mean,

0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:08.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I had enough money to even give

0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.320
<v Speaker 1>to charity when I was younger.

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I think too, that's that's also a measure of like replacing,

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.120
<v Speaker 2>like adding distance to your kindness, you know.

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sure, it's not just like donating.

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.320
<v Speaker 2>You don't show up at like the house that the

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 2>charity is, like, you know, supporting, you're just giving to

0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 2>that charity.

0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And also you know I said that I didn't

0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.160
<v Speaker 1>have enough money to give to charity. That's not true you.

0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna say always there are people that are

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:43.000
<v Speaker 1>genuinely living like week to week and day to day

0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 1>with their finances, so I'm not talking about that. But

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 1>in my twenties I could have, you know, not done

0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the one thing to give ten dollars to another thing.

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.240
<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm saying. I know it was, But

0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.080
<v Speaker 1>you can't give time if you don't have money. It's

0:12:59.080 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 1>just another way to be cheir.

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 2>So one thing about that though, real quick before you

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>move on. I remember plenty of studies have turned up

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that people of middle to lower socioeconomic status tend to

0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.360
<v Speaker 2>give more to charity than people higher up in the

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>socioeconomic status.

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is that more total monies are more like based

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.000
<v Speaker 1>on their relative income?

0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I think yeah, I think relatively speaking, yeah, because I mean,

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a billionaire could give a million dollars

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.320
<v Speaker 2>and be like eat my dust. Right, lower socioeconomic people,

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.480
<v Speaker 2>but that you know, relative to their wealth, it's not

0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 2>really that big of a deal. Whereas somebody lower on

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:41.520
<v Speaker 2>the scale or with less money, they gave a thousand dollars,

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.640
<v Speaker 2>that might mean a lot more than a million dollars

0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:44.559
<v Speaker 2>to a billionaire.

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and boy, what a lesson to Let's say you're

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>a single parent with a few kids and you're really struggling.

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 1>What a lesson to your kids to be like, you

0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>know what, I found a twenty dollars bill a day

0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to put two dollars in this eyes can.

0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 1>That seems like he needs it more than we do,

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>even but.

0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna get it and change. So it sounds like

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.199
<v Speaker 2>a lot because he's not paying attention, but he'll hear it.

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Go get two hundred pennies. Said, should we take a break?

0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, all right, let's take a break. We'll be

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:47.840
<v Speaker 1>right back, all right. We've talked about the runners high before,

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 1>that uphooric sense that a runner can feel at a

0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>at a certain mile on the road or in the

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>woods or wherever you're running. Can you get a runner

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>sigh on a treadmill?

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, anytime, anytime you're exerting your body running for

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 2>a while.

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I didn't have. I had something to do with

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 1>the environment and fresh air and stuff like that.

0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 2>It might trigger it a little faster, who knows, but yes,

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>you can.

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Right all that to say, there's a helper's high that

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 1>they found. This is in the nineteen eighties that they

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 1>first reclued into this, and that is just what you

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 1>might think is after doing a kindness to someone, you

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 1>might feel a sense of exhilaration, you might feel a

0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>very nice period of calm afterward. They have found, depending

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>on the kindness I guess in the person, that can

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>really get you going for a few weeks sometimes. And

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>this is really interesting, I thought, psychologically, are these next

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 1>couple of things is that you can get that same

0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>high just by thinking back on that kindness you did

0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 1>like a month ago.

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Heck yeah, that's interesting. But if

0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>you stop and think about it, it's anecdotally speaking of

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 2>course that works like that, but when you see it

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 2>on paper, it's kind of astounding that you can think

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 2>about something like you said you did a month ago

0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and feel good about it all over again. That's pretty cool.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And we do know that there are literal physical

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 1>symptoms of kindnesses and the effect like better immune function,

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 1>your stress hormones are going to go down and stuff

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>like that. But it makes me wonder, if you, like,

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 1>if you can call up that kindness you did a

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>month ago when you're starting to feel like you're getting

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 1>a cold, would that literally help you avoid a cold? Oh?

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, without a question. Okay, it's a good reason

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 2>to be kind Yeah, and have a good memory. Yeah,

0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.359
<v Speaker 2>there's there's another so another way you could put kindness.

0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 2>It's probably not exactly interchangeable, but it's close enough. It's

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>pro social behavior. Yeah, because I don't think we said

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>something that's really important. Kindness is it's it's it's action.

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 2>It's always an action, like it's not just thinking something.

0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Thinking something is not kindness. You can have kind thought, sure,

0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.040
<v Speaker 2>but kindness is always an action and in fact, kindness

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.679
<v Speaker 2>dot org, which is a nonprofit that's basically like a

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.640
<v Speaker 2>that supports kindness research. They say that kindness is a

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 2>meta value which is just right out of the gate,

0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:19.000
<v Speaker 2>knocks your socks off, and that it encompasses acts of altruism, empathy, justice, respect,

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and more. And that is always an action, often done

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 2>with the intention to benefit and sometimes but not always,

0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:27.879
<v Speaker 2>driven by emotion, which I mean if you get to

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:32.160
<v Speaker 2>define kindness there, it is right there. And another way

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.720
<v Speaker 2>to explain that is saying pro social behavior, you're acting

0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:41.040
<v Speaker 2>in a way that is kind, right, So people have

0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.399
<v Speaker 2>studied pro social behavior more than they've studied kindness, So

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 2>you can kind of take some of those pro social

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.199
<v Speaker 2>behavior studies and apply them to kindness research too. And

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly what a twenty twenty meta analysis did from

0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Hong Kong Polytechnic.

0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.120
<v Speaker 1>You that's right, great school, it's got to be right.

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:01.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was reading about it. I think it's actually

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the best schools in the world. Yeah. See,

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.679
<v Speaker 2>And they do not have a mask guy. As far

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 2>as they could tell, it's either an owl or winning

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 2>the Pooh. I couldn't make heads or tails of some

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 2>of the photos.

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Let's go with me the pooh go poos. All right,

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 1>So they did a meta analysis like you're saying, in

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.639
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty and found that pro social behavior that you

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.800
<v Speaker 1>so aptly defined was very closely linked with something called

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna call it udae amonic well being I think so,

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>or either that or you demonic maybe that's a silent eye,

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 1>who knows, But that is a happiness. That is, it's

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of happiness. Plus it's associated with more meaning and

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 1>more purpose than an ordinary happiness, like oh boy, this

0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 1>ice cream tastes good.

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I've seen so you have well being. I've

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.919
<v Speaker 2>seen you demonic well being or happiness as well, doing

0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.160
<v Speaker 2>like you're doing stuff that makes you happy rather than

0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 2>just feeling happy, and that in and of itself as

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a component of well being that's pretty cool. So there's

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.679
<v Speaker 2>also that same I think meta analysis turned up that

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>if you help somebody informally, you typically receive more personal benefits,

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 2>like more happiness or a sense of reward than you

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 2>do if you're formally you know, being kind, like organizing

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 2>a charity or even writing a check to charity.

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 1>That makes sense, yeah, because it's like a surprise for

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 1>you as well. If it's an opportunity to perform a kindness.

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.240
<v Speaker 1>And by the way, I don't only say a kindness

0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:42.400
<v Speaker 1>because of the gentleman from Winnebago Man, the Great Great documentary.

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember that, but I don't remember him saying

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:45.119
<v Speaker 2>a kindness.

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:46.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he said all the time, do me a kindness,

0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know, yeah, get me a coffee.

0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.200
<v Speaker 1>But it kind of fits though, because a kindness is

0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.239
<v Speaker 1>an act. So it's like it turns it into an

0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.199
<v Speaker 1>action almost by making it a noun or.

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, an adverb?

0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 1>Is that an adverb?

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:05.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not an advert.

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm about as good at English as I am at math.

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.399
<v Speaker 1>No that's not true. Oh thanks, you're much gooder at English.

0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.920
<v Speaker 1>So oh, I don't even know where I was going

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.800
<v Speaker 1>with this, because all I can think about is Winnibigo Man.

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 2>You were talking about, Oh.

0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 1>The surprise of a kindness that presents itself, that you

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.480
<v Speaker 1>can like, all of a sudden, you're at the grocery

0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.640
<v Speaker 1>store and there's an opportunity for you to perform a kindness.

0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 1>That I get that that might mean more to you

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.159
<v Speaker 1>than on a happiness level than like organizing a charity

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>because organizing a volunteer day or something is a lot

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 1>of work, and it can be a pain, and there

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.919
<v Speaker 1>can be frustrations, and even though the end result is

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 1>you've done something well, at the end of that day,

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.360
<v Speaker 1>you probably sit in your chair and you're like, oh man,

0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.760
<v Speaker 1>that was a lot. But when you just do a

0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 1>small kindness, it's a surprise for you, and so of

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 1>course you're going to be like, that was the best

0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.439
<v Speaker 1>thing ever. I was just the best dude, and it

0:20:58.480 --> 0:20:59.880
<v Speaker 1>only took me thirty seconds.

0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And what's neat is there's other research, so we'll

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.399
<v Speaker 2>talk about down the line that basically finds that surprise

0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 2>is an element of the happiness that can come out

0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 2>of acts of kindness.

0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I think there's definitely something to that.

0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Chuck, Yeah, and the best way to scare people.

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 2>So there's another study. I've got another study at my sleeve.

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 2>You want to hear about it.

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Let's hear it.

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.240
<v Speaker 2>They were trying to say, Okay, like, great job coming

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 2>up with a kindness skill. But what are we really

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.560
<v Speaker 2>measuring here? Are we measuring actual acts of kindness making

0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 2>people happy? Or is there some other thing that we

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 2>don't realize We're measuring. So they actually very cleverly kind

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.119
<v Speaker 2>of broke it out into a few components and they

0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.960
<v Speaker 2>had people either do something kind for others, an active kindness,

0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.080
<v Speaker 2>something kind for themselves still an active kindness, but not

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 2>for anybody else, totally extroverted behavior that's not kindness, So

0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe striking up a neutral conversation about the weather with

0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 2>a stranger it is hot, right, or doing something that's

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>open minded but it's not social and it's not kind.

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 2>And the example that Olivia gave was engaging with art,

0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 2>like going to see you know, going to a museum, right, Okay,

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.680
<v Speaker 2>all of those things can make you happy. And the

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.159
<v Speaker 2>University of California psychologists wanted to see if we were

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>accidentally measuring that, and what they found is that the

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 2>people who did acts of kindness for other people were

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.480
<v Speaker 2>far and away happier than the other three groups.

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty interesting. And in that little bit you mentioned,

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that covered for was doing a

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 1>kindness for yourself. There was a twenty nineteen paper from

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.199
<v Speaker 1>Oxford University where they found that acts of kindness to

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:50.159
<v Speaker 1>other people and acts of kindness to yourself had about

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the same positive effect on your happiness and I didn't

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.000
<v Speaker 1>read that as like, oh, well, that just shoots holes

0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.920
<v Speaker 1>in the previous theory. I saw it as like, well, yeah,

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 1>your brain is still receiving those triggers that like you're

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 1>doing a kindness and you're a person too, and you

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.800
<v Speaker 1>need kindness is to be done for you, and if

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.960
<v Speaker 1>you're the one doing it, then great. Exactly, you know

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:16.120
<v Speaker 1>you should be kind to yourself.

0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Be kind to yourself.

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>That's right, and rewind So I.

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Saw something explained like the feeling that you get from

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.240
<v Speaker 2>the helpers high, explained by pointing out that acts of

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 2>kindness are actually an exertion for us, just like exercises

0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.119
<v Speaker 2>an exertion. Anything beyond what we need to do to

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.280
<v Speaker 2>survive that day is technically an exertion, and our bodies

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.560
<v Speaker 2>created this reward system to overcome the sense of exertion

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.199
<v Speaker 2>or pain or sore muscles or loss of giving up

0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:51.119
<v Speaker 2>your goldfish treat to a puppet and flooding us with

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.240
<v Speaker 2>chemicals that make us feel better. So that totally explains

0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the biochemical basis for that Helper's high, for the sense

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 2>of being rewarded by doing an act of kindness or

0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 2>just a kindness, and that it's kind of apparently centrally

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.239
<v Speaker 2>located in the vegas nerve, which, if you'll remember from

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.639
<v Speaker 2>More Organism episode, is really responsible for that. It's a

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 2>huge part of the parasympathetic autonomic nervous system, which is

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of flight. It's like chill and chill instead

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:26.240
<v Speaker 2>of fight or flight.

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like getting your breathing under control and your tummy

0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 1>feeling good and your heart rate a little lower, stuff

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.640
<v Speaker 1>like that. We talked about it quite a few times.

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like over the years, it's only in mammals.

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 1>It's very unique to mammals. And because it is a

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:48.159
<v Speaker 1>part of that autonomic nervous system, it's connected to like

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 1>basically all the organs right, Like, it's affecting everything inside

0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 1>your body, which is great, and it's you know, what's

0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:59.080
<v Speaker 1>going to give you that warm feeling when it's active,

0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:03.280
<v Speaker 1>when you've done a kindness to someone, that's where that

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 1>warm feeling is coming from, basically.

0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and specifically it's oxytocin. They've linked that to kindness

0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 2>and that helper's high and that is it's frequently called

0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:17.439
<v Speaker 2>the love hormone. It's it is around from every event,

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 2>like a mother holding a newborn baby. Skin to skin

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 2>for the first time. That's a huge oxytocin release. To

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 2>doing an active kindness for somebody, is that warm feeling

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:32.960
<v Speaker 2>in your chest, that feeling that where like you just

0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 2>suddenly are like I could if I really thought about it,

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.919
<v Speaker 2>I could cry right now, Like you just feel so

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:42.040
<v Speaker 2>good and just overwhelmed with positive feelings. That's oxytocin, and

0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:45.199
<v Speaker 2>acts of kindness have been shown to release oxytocin. That

0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 2>seems to be part of the basis of that helper's high. So, however,

0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:52.439
<v Speaker 2>you can get oxytocin, get it, that's my motto.

0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally an interesting thing to jumping back a sec

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:03.240
<v Speaker 1>to that twenty nineteen Oxford paper that talked about doing

0:26:03.280 --> 0:26:07.119
<v Speaker 1>a kindness on oneself. I found this particularly interesting. Okay,

0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:10.879
<v Speaker 1>just witnessing an act of kindness can also have a

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:15.440
<v Speaker 1>similar effect on you, which is amazing, And that makes

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.679
<v Speaker 1>me wonder if our old friend's mirror neurons are not

0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:20.040
<v Speaker 1>involved somehow.

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I would think so, because empathy has to

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:27.359
<v Speaker 2>be involved, Like you have to feel something towards somebody

0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:30.080
<v Speaker 2>who you're helping, or else you just wouldn't even think

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:32.200
<v Speaker 2>to help them. You'd probably just be like huh huh

0:26:32.440 --> 0:26:35.479
<v Speaker 2>you know m hm. So yeah, if empathy is involved

0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:37.600
<v Speaker 2>in the mirror, neurons have to be involved. It's just

0:26:37.640 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 2>the way it goes.

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Friend, But we've I mean, who hasn't watched the one

0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:48.840
<v Speaker 1>of those internet videos on Instagram or wherever where you

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.920
<v Speaker 1>see a real kindness and you know they got that

0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 1>piano music plan and all of a sudden you're tearing

0:26:56.119 --> 0:27:00.560
<v Speaker 1>up like your body is firing all those same neurons, apparently,

0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:05.200
<v Speaker 1>according to Oxford, as if you had done that kindness yourself, right,

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 1>like feel good neurons.

0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>You got that rascal for that veteran, like you did that.

0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:13.560
<v Speaker 2>For all intents and purposes, none of us have to

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.120
<v Speaker 2>do anything. As long as there's some people out there

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.720
<v Speaker 2>doing kindnesses and posting those videos on the internet, the

0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:22.240
<v Speaker 2>rest of us can just get the benefits from it

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 2>without having a lift a finger.

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:26.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you go into your therapist and they're they're like,

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:28.720
<v Speaker 1>I know you have a problem with uh empathy and kindnesses?

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Did you do any this week? And you're like, yeah,

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:31.440
<v Speaker 1>I watch like three videos.

0:27:31.480 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Exactly make you feel great. Yeah, So should we take

0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:37.719
<v Speaker 2>another break and then come back and talk about how

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:42.400
<v Speaker 2>it helps people who kindness is given to. Sure, Okay,

0:27:42.440 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 2>we're going to do that. So I think it's beyond

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:17.560
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous to say that a person who is the beneficiary

0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:21.880
<v Speaker 2>of an act of kindness gets something out of it too.

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.200
<v Speaker 2>They literally get something out of it in a lot

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 2>of times, like if it's a veteran and the rascal

0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:31.600
<v Speaker 2>that a bunch of people donated to buy him, it

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>can be a goldfish treat, like they benefit in that sense,

0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 2>but they also benefit emotionally as well. And what they

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:42.240
<v Speaker 2>found in a bunch of different studies is kind of

0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>what we were talking about before that other elements like surprise,

0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 2>just the gesture, the thought, Like they say it's the

0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>thought that counts well. Some kind of studies have basically

0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>turned that up that if you don't just think about it,

0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:58.240
<v Speaker 2>but you actually follow through, the people are more moved

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 2>by the thought, by the gesture than they are by

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 2>the goldfish treat or the rascal. Although I mean, if

0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 2>you give somebody a rascal, they're probably going to be

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 2>pretty happy.

0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:08.360
<v Speaker 1>What's a rascal?

0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's a little mobilized get around kart that you

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:17.760
<v Speaker 2>see people riding. Oh Okayan stage or immobility.

0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I got you all right, I didn't know those were

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>called rascals.

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 2>That is the original trading it for one of the brands,

0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.640
<v Speaker 2>and it's just it's become kind of a proprietary eponym, Okay,

0:29:27.680 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 2>at least in my house.

0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So one of the experiments they did to test

0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>this was in nineteen ninety five. They looked at unhoused

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.520
<v Speaker 1>folks who went to the ER a lot for treatment.

0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:46.080
<v Speaker 1>And they had a controlled group who just got their

0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>regular old er visit, and then they had another group

0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:52.680
<v Speaker 1>that had that visit plus student volunteers who would chat

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 1>them up, talk about stuff and life and listen to

0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:59.320
<v Speaker 1>them and held conversations and maybe gave them a goldfish

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 1>or something. And they found that the members of the

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>test group were twice as likely to rate their care

0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:10.440
<v Speaker 1>higher sure, which you know makes perfect sense, and that

0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>and this was interesting. The number of ER visits among

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.080
<v Speaker 1>that group dropped by a third. Yeah, which I guess

0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 1>indicates that they're healthier.

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I guess the researchers took it to mean that the

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.040
<v Speaker 2>unhoused people who show up to the r over and

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.840
<v Speaker 2>over and over again are basically showing up until they

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.800
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're being treated like a human being and

0:30:32.880 --> 0:30:36.000
<v Speaker 2>that that group were satisfied that they had received good

0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 2>care for once and they stopped coming back to try to,

0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, get it out of the people in the er.

0:30:42.560 --> 0:30:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh, and that is really interesting because another way to

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:48.200
<v Speaker 1>think of that is like, why didn't the people who

0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 1>got that warm care want to come back and say, like, boy,

0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:56.240
<v Speaker 1>that was you know, that was pretty great that goldfish.

0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>I had a nice conversation with.

0:30:57.400 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 2>A student I totally thought the same thing.

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting.

0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 2>So there's another study that involved cupcakes, and who doesn't

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:06.719
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about that.

0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a good one.

0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 2>It is, it's a great one. So the researchers gave

0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:16.959
<v Speaker 2>strangers or study participants a cupcake and said, here you go,

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:18.960
<v Speaker 2>here's a cupcake. You can do whatever you want with it,

0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>but you can also give it to a stranger if

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 2>you like. And apparently eighty percent of the participants gave

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>their cupcake away. Well I want to know those twenty percent.

0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I hope they didn't tell them what they were actually studying,

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.160
<v Speaker 2>because I think you'd really have some real soul searching

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 2>to do after you find out that you're part of

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:38.960
<v Speaker 2>the twenty percent who kept the cupcake for yourself in

0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:40.160
<v Speaker 2>a kindness study.

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they tell them that, like, your mouth is full

0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:45.240
<v Speaker 1>of cupcake, and they revealed that to you, and you're like.

0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:49.040
<v Speaker 2>What, Yeah, it's just going to spit it back into

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:50.959
<v Speaker 2>the little wrapper and put it back and then go

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 2>give it to a stranger.

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's when they reveal the milk that you

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:54.800
<v Speaker 1>don't get.

0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 2>So the eighty percent of people who gave their cupcake away,

0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:04.480
<v Speaker 2>they asked them, how do you think how like how

0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>much of an impact do you think this gesture is

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:09.600
<v Speaker 2>going to have? And this is a really important thing

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:13.520
<v Speaker 2>that they turned up that the people who received the

0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 2>cupcake rated their happiness is higher than the person who

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:19.960
<v Speaker 2>gave them the cupcake expected it to be, like a

0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:25.000
<v Speaker 2>lot higher. And that's kind of a human flaw. Like

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:29.760
<v Speaker 2>we're we have genetic programming to be kind, we also

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:33.000
<v Speaker 2>have genetic programming to second guess ourselves and be self

0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:36.600
<v Speaker 2>conscious and that prevents us from doing acts of kindness

0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of ways. And even when we do

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.360
<v Speaker 2>acts of kindness, we underestimate their effect. But the other

0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:46.720
<v Speaker 2>part of that cupcake study that I found interesting is

0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that the people who got the cupcake basically said it

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 2>was the surprise that made it such a great happy

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 2>experience for them.

0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like the people who got the cupcake, the twenty

0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 1>percent who ate it, mm hmm. They rated their happiness,

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure they're fairly happy, but not nearly as

0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 1>happy at the people that were surprised by a stranger

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 1>right giving him them a cupcake.

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I feel like we fairly well established that

0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:18.920
<v Speaker 2>being kind is a good thing and that it exists. Yeah,

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 2>almost almost. What about your family, though, because think about this, Yeah,

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 2>giving a cupcakes to a stranger who you're never going

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:31.360
<v Speaker 2>to see again, there's nothing but pretty much an upside

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 2>to that. It's all upside totally. But if you gave

0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:38.840
<v Speaker 2>your cupcake away to a family member, you're going to

0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 2>see that family member later that day after they had

0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 2>a rough day at the office, and they're probably not

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 2>feeling much gratitude towards you for the cupcake you gave

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:48.640
<v Speaker 2>them earlier in the day, even though you're still feeling

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 2>good about yourself for having given them your cupcake. And

0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:55.760
<v Speaker 2>therein lies the big rub with acts of kindness in

0:33:56.160 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 2>what are known as strong tie relationships like your family.

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it seems in the case of family and

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:07.640
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine this might go for like very close

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 1>friend groups as well, but I'm just speculating. But in

0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:14.520
<v Speaker 1>this study in twenty seventeen, they showed a very strong

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 1>correlation in the happiness level, not being dictated by, but

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:23.360
<v Speaker 1>being influenced by whether or not these acts of kindness

0:34:23.360 --> 0:34:27.279
<v Speaker 1>were noticed and acknowledged. Sure, so, they got people that newlyweds,

0:34:27.280 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>people had just gotten married, and they said, spend a

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:36.520
<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks recording instances instance instance oh Man times

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:41.279
<v Speaker 1>in which one spouse would help out their partner put

0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:43.720
<v Speaker 1>aside their own like if you're in the middle doing something,

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:46.799
<v Speaker 1>you would stop with a small act of kindness that

0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:49.879
<v Speaker 1>your partner needs in that moment. And then also while

0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:52.200
<v Speaker 1>you're doing this, record your emotional state. And they found

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:54.239
<v Speaker 1>that acts of kindness that had the most impacts on

0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:56.799
<v Speaker 1>both the giver and the receiver was when they were

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:02.680
<v Speaker 1>noticed and acknowledged. And also found unsurprisingly that when there

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 1>maybe surprisingly yeah for sure, when the receiver did not

0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 1>consciously notice that it still resulted in improved moods for

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:11.359
<v Speaker 1>both especially the giver.

0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Sure, but they were like, these people are in the

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:18.279
<v Speaker 2>honeymoon phase of their relationship. Exactly if we did the

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 2>same experiment ten years down the road, would that second

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:26.279
<v Speaker 2>part still hold up? And there's a group. There's a

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 2>pair of researchers. There are a couple, John and Julie Gotman,

0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:35.239
<v Speaker 2>and they are incredibly famous, incredibly well researched and well

0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:39.560
<v Speaker 2>read and well cited, like couples researchers like they're the

0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:40.600
<v Speaker 2>real deal, legit.

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a marriage therapist, yes, exactly.

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:46.080
<v Speaker 2>They actually are the ones who teach the marriage therapists

0:35:46.080 --> 0:35:48.560
<v Speaker 2>who go teach other marriage therapists, like they're doing like

0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 2>really great firsthand research. And one of the things they

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.959
<v Speaker 2>found over the course of the career is that acts

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 2>of kindness, even incredibly small acts of kindness, they can

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.920
<v Speaker 2>take the the form of a huh, when your spouse

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:05.080
<v Speaker 2>is telling you about something you couldn't care less about

0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and you're actually really busy, just that counts as an

0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 2>act of kindness. And that the couples who give one

0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 2>another more active kindness than not. I think they came

0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:18.640
<v Speaker 2>up with some ratio of like four positive interactions to

0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:22.399
<v Speaker 2>one negative interaction is like the key to success. That

0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:25.320
<v Speaker 2>those couples who did more kind things to one another

0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:29.200
<v Speaker 2>had you know, much more successful and lasting marriages and

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.640
<v Speaker 2>that again, those acts can be very very small and

0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:34.000
<v Speaker 2>they still have a big impact.

0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because what they're talking about and this is something

0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:38.759
<v Speaker 1>I've seen in my own marriage at like Emily and

0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.879
<v Speaker 1>I've been together for over twenty years now, like all

0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:45.160
<v Speaker 1>in and once you get into the multiple decade span,

0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:50.600
<v Speaker 1>you find and you would be wise to learn how

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>to do this more, but you find that attention is

0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:59.560
<v Speaker 1>one of the biggest parts of being happily married. Sure,

0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:01.680
<v Speaker 1>and that go you know, that jibes with what you

0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:04.239
<v Speaker 1>were talking about there with the study or that you know,

0:37:04.280 --> 0:37:08.799
<v Speaker 1>the gotman stuff with like you know, I think when

0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:10.239
<v Speaker 1>you've been with someone for a long time, you find

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.520
<v Speaker 1>yourself in your routines and like, oh, I'm reading this thing.

0:37:14.160 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 1>And but like Emily will come home with a story

0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:22.400
<v Speaker 1>about something that just happened, and like the spouse's wise

0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:25.000
<v Speaker 1>who will stop what they're doing just for a moment

0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:27.880
<v Speaker 1>and pay attention to them in a real way and

0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:31.520
<v Speaker 1>do more than a huh like, oh wow, that's really

0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:33.960
<v Speaker 1>cool that that happened to you today, and chances are

0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:35.960
<v Speaker 1>you can probably get back to what you're doing. The

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:40.440
<v Speaker 1>unwise person does not, or they put out that they

0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:42.240
<v Speaker 1>have to stop what they're doing, or that their attention

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 1>is diverted, and that, my friend, is not a recipe

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:49.360
<v Speaker 1>for success. And I'm having to continually sort of in

0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>a like train myself still because I think certain people

0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 1>have deficits when it comes to stuff like that. And

0:37:58.560 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 1>also just there's so much stuff now when you know

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:04.600
<v Speaker 1>it was a lot easier before there were smartphones and

0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:07.839
<v Speaker 1>the internet and like constant other things that are distracting you.

0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:11.080
<v Speaker 1>But you were wise to sort of try and be

0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:13.920
<v Speaker 1>aware of those distractions to pay attention to your family

0:38:14.000 --> 0:38:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and your spouse.

0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:16.719
<v Speaker 2>So the way that the Gotments put it is that

0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>when your spouse or your friend or whoever is meaningful

0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:25.160
<v Speaker 2>to you brings up something and saying something that is

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:27.600
<v Speaker 2>asking for your attention, they're making a bid for attention,

0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>and you have a choice. Like you said, you can

0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:33.240
<v Speaker 2>pay attention to them, that's what they call turning toward

0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 2>You can snap at them for always bothering you when

0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:42.160
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to read, or you can ignore them, which

0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:45.520
<v Speaker 2>is not as bad as snapping at them all the time.

0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 2>But when those ignoring instances add up, it can have

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.040
<v Speaker 2>a really harmful impact on the relationship. So I guess

0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:56.440
<v Speaker 2>the upshot of this is that the gotments prove that

0:38:56.480 --> 0:39:04.440
<v Speaker 2>a successful relationship is exhausting, right, and you never.

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Get to read the stuff you want to read on

0:39:06.040 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 1>your phone? Am I right?

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Guys, you're always bothering me.

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I guess we should talk a little bit here towards

0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 1>the end about gratitude and guilt, because acts of kindness,

0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:24.680
<v Speaker 1>many times will spring from guilt. And here's the thing

0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:28.479
<v Speaker 1>with guilt, Like being consumed by guilt is no good

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:31.759
<v Speaker 1>for anybody, But a little bit of guilt every now

0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:38.640
<v Speaker 1>and then can lead to more generosity. And the Catholics,

0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:45.520
<v Speaker 1>I feel like it's almost more of a It's not like, oh,

0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I feel so guilty so I have to do this.

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:49.319
<v Speaker 1>It's just like, boy, I feel a little guilty, so

0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:51.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm just a little more aware and on point and

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:54.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to do the right thing.

0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially if you know you've hurt someone's feelings and

0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:00.839
<v Speaker 2>that's what you're feeling guilty about, that's going to turn

0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:05.680
<v Speaker 2>your kindness into hyperdrive. But researchers have found that your

0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 2>your kindness is being laser focused on that person. You're

0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:12.239
<v Speaker 2>marshaling all of your kindness resources and you're focusing on

0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:14.359
<v Speaker 2>that poor person who probably doesn't even want to talk

0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 2>to you right now, but you're like, I gotta be

0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:18.360
<v Speaker 2>kind to you because I feel so guilty. And what

0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:21.480
<v Speaker 2>they found is that actually that kind that level of

0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:25.319
<v Speaker 2>kindness excludes other people. You're walking past other chances to

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:28.280
<v Speaker 2>be kind to other people who need acts of kindness

0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:30.880
<v Speaker 2>because you're so focused on this person. So that guilty

0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:34.040
<v Speaker 2>sense that can bring you to acts of kindness can

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:37.880
<v Speaker 2>very easily become overraw and overblown, and nobody.

0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Wins, right. And they've also found that ignoring like that

0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:44.840
<v Speaker 1>could cause you to ignore did you already say that

0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:45.680
<v Speaker 1>ignore other people?

0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Pretty much? Yeah, you're you're you're you're not paying attention

0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:51.080
<v Speaker 2>to other people's needs and just focusing on the person

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.280
<v Speaker 2>who's mattitude because you feel guilty.

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 1>The gratitude piece I don't fully understand in this context,

0:40:58.120 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 1>because they have found in experiment it's a gratitude does

0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:06.120
<v Speaker 1>seem to encourage generosity when even when it costs you something.

0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, normally, like people are in a good mood, or

0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:11.759
<v Speaker 2>if you're in a good mood, you will probably do

0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:14.480
<v Speaker 2>like acts of kindness. Holding a door for somebody doesn't

0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:16.720
<v Speaker 2>cost you a thing, it's an act of kindness. People

0:41:16.760 --> 0:41:20.360
<v Speaker 2>consider that a kind gesture. But if you feel gratitude

0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:23.520
<v Speaker 2>because somebody else did something nicier, or you're just happy

0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:26.759
<v Speaker 2>to be alive, you feel that sense of gratitude, you're

0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.200
<v Speaker 2>actually more likely to give somebody your only cupcake like something.

0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:32.480
<v Speaker 1>That's okay, all right, yeah, that makes sense, okay.

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>And then the other thing about it, though, is that

0:41:35.440 --> 0:41:38.720
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't even have to be gratitude toward the person

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 2>who gave you that cupcake, or you don't have to

0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 2>do something back to them. You can actually take that

0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:47.480
<v Speaker 2>gratitude and give it to a third party, which is

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.359
<v Speaker 2>pretty cool, like that whole pay it forward thing. But

0:41:50.400 --> 0:41:53.120
<v Speaker 2>what another study found, I think back in two thousand

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:57.120
<v Speaker 2>and six, they found that that third that paying it

0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:00.759
<v Speaker 2>forward thing is unconscious and that when they needed it out, hey,

0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:03.320
<v Speaker 2>you did a really nice thing for this other person,

0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:06.799
<v Speaker 2>the third party, because the first party did something nice

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:08.880
<v Speaker 2>to you the second party, if that makes sense in

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:13.719
<v Speaker 2>a super legal jargon way right, And when they told

0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.560
<v Speaker 2>them that, that sense of gratitude just kind of vanished,

0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>like when it became conscious, it went away, but unconsciously,

0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:24.319
<v Speaker 2>they were more prone to help other people commit acts

0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 2>of kindness for other people because they were feeling gratitude

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 2>that somebody else did something nice for them.

0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever seen we talked a little bit about

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:36.239
<v Speaker 1>I think you should leave the Sketch Show from Tim Robinson.

0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Did you ever watch any of it?

0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:38.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, I've watched it all.

0:42:39.239 --> 0:42:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, it always makes me think the pay it

0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:44.960
<v Speaker 1>forward thing. Maybe I don't know. They're all great, but

0:42:45.000 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 1>one of his best, my favorite sketches ever of his

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:53.400
<v Speaker 1>is the drive through when of buying paying for someone's

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 1>drive through behind you and then he speeds around and

0:42:57.320 --> 0:42:59.879
<v Speaker 1>then you know, fifty nine burgers, fifield milkshakes, one hundred

0:42:59.880 --> 0:43:04.080
<v Speaker 1>pe fifty coffees. Yeah so funny. Yeah, yeah, oh boy,

0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:07.880
<v Speaker 1>I love that guy. What else, Chuck, Well, we can

0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:10.520
<v Speaker 1>wrap it up with a little bit on compassion fatigue.

0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Doing kindnesses is great, but they have found that if

0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:18.200
<v Speaker 1>you are someone who works in an industry where you

0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:20.200
<v Speaker 1>have to have a lot of compassion, if you're a

0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:25.120
<v Speaker 1>hospice nurse, if you are a single parent and you

0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:28.760
<v Speaker 1>have a child with high needs, if you work at

0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.760
<v Speaker 1>a shelter for unhoused people and you're just constantly having

0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:37.719
<v Speaker 1>to give of yourself every day that you know, you

0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:41.440
<v Speaker 1>can exhaust yourself of that, and it can be very

0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:47.040
<v Speaker 1>difficult to work those hours of being nothing but empathetic

0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.080
<v Speaker 1>all day long and doing kindnesses all day long. And

0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:53.640
<v Speaker 1>that's compassion fatigue. You can have mood swings, you can

0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:58.200
<v Speaker 1>be irritable, you can be anxious and depressed, and like,

0:43:58.400 --> 0:44:01.239
<v Speaker 1>bad things can happen. So that's like why you need

0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 1>to take care of yourself, Like self care is so

0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>important when you have a situation like that.

0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can also lose your general like basic drive

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:12.560
<v Speaker 2>for compassion. Like you could start being like I don't

0:44:12.560 --> 0:44:14.759
<v Speaker 2>care about any of these people that I'm treating in

0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:15.640
<v Speaker 2>the er anymore.

0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so burned out. That's tough stuff.

0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Fortunately that's pretty limited to certain occupations or situations

0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:26.040
<v Speaker 2>like people taking care of a loved one at home

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:28.879
<v Speaker 2>twenty four to seven basically. And yeah, there's a lot

0:44:28.920 --> 0:44:31.719
<v Speaker 2>of resources. If you are thinking that you might have

0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:34.560
<v Speaker 2>compassion fatigue, you should just start reading about it on

0:44:34.600 --> 0:44:36.839
<v Speaker 2>the web and there's a lot of really good solutions

0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:37.880
<v Speaker 2>to that that can help.

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:42.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, take it easy on yourself because it's painful to

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:44.920
<v Speaker 1>admit sometimes that stuff is very hard and that you

0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:49.919
<v Speaker 1>feel resentment and like it's human like let yourself up. Sure. Nice, Nice,

0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:50.719
<v Speaker 1>that's what I say.

0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 2>And there's one last thing about kindness that I thought

0:44:53.080 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 2>was really great, Like it can be hard to be mindful,

0:44:58.440 --> 0:45:01.720
<v Speaker 2>it can be hard to cultivate attitude. Like those aren't

0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.239
<v Speaker 2>just things that just snap into into mind like when

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.640
<v Speaker 2>you want them to write. The great thing about kindness

0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.400
<v Speaker 2>is it's an action. So you can just do it,

0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:12.440
<v Speaker 2>like you don't have to Like, it's not something you

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:14.600
<v Speaker 2>have to cultivate or work on or a mindset you

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:15.400
<v Speaker 2>have to be in.

0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can just do it.

0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:21.240
<v Speaker 2>And again, as we've shown as study after study after

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 2>study after study has shown it's beneficial to you and

0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:28.720
<v Speaker 2>the receiver and it keeps society going, so said Darwin,

0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 2>So do it.

0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:32.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do a little experiment if you if you find

0:45:32.160 --> 0:45:36.840
<v Speaker 1>you're having a very blue period, try holding open that door,

0:45:36.840 --> 0:45:38.359
<v Speaker 1>do a kindness or two and see what that does

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.280
<v Speaker 1>for you. And just just chart it and see what happens.

0:45:40.360 --> 0:45:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Very nice. Well, since Chuck said chart it, everybody, that

0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:45.800
<v Speaker 2>means it's time for a listener mail.

0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Uh, I'm gonna call this sportsy. I thought this was interesting. Okay,

0:45:54.719 --> 0:46:00.480
<v Speaker 1>this was in regards to our bad business moves, bad

0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:03.759
<v Speaker 1>business decisions. Sure, and this was a good one. And

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:06.160
<v Speaker 1>as an NBA fan, I can't believe I didn't know this.

0:46:06.239 --> 0:46:09.880
<v Speaker 1>And you're an NBA fan too, Yes, you'll appreciate this. Hey, guys,

0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:12.200
<v Speaker 1>was late to the show, discovered you during the pandemic,

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:13.879
<v Speaker 1>and was happy to have your voices in my ears

0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:17.280
<v Speaker 1>through those long days on the worst ish business deals.

0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:20.000
<v Speaker 1>I thought i'd share one of my favorites. When the

0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:23.960
<v Speaker 1>ABA merged with the NBA back in the seventies, some

0:46:24.000 --> 0:46:29.080
<v Speaker 1>teams became NBA franchises, like the Nets and Indiana and

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:32.840
<v Speaker 1>San Antonio and Denver, the Nuggets. The rest were bought

0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 1>out by the NBA. Like you know, hey, I'm sorry,

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Kentucky Colonels will give you three million dollars to stop

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:42.200
<v Speaker 1>being an ABA team.

0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:45.040
<v Speaker 2>You know you're bad if somebody pays you three million

0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 2>dollars to stop playing.

0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 1>The owners of the Saint Louis, well, they just had

0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:51.759
<v Speaker 1>to make them go way, you know. The owners of

0:46:51.800 --> 0:46:55.120
<v Speaker 1>the Saint Louis Spirit, the Silna Brothers, negotiated a smaller

0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:58.319
<v Speaker 1>deal two point two million, which included a share of

0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:02.440
<v Speaker 1>television rights in Perpo two oh up through twenty thirteen.

0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.719
<v Speaker 1>This earned the silma's about three hundred million dollars for

0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>not operating an NBA team from the seventies. In twenty fourteen,

0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 1>the NBA finally bought themselves out of that clause by

0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:17.960
<v Speaker 1>an agreement of a lump sum five hundred million dollar payment.

0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:22.680
<v Speaker 1>What so, the silma's total pocket was eight hundred million

0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:27.200
<v Speaker 1>dollars from the NBA. To not have an NBA team

0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:29.799
<v Speaker 1>may not be the worst business deal of all time,

0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:32.120
<v Speaker 1>may have been the worst in pro sports worst I

0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:35.480
<v Speaker 1>guess for the NBA. Sure, that's amazing. I'd never heard that.

0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:40.000
<v Speaker 1>So that is from Steve Sonon in Seattle. Sorry about

0:47:40.000 --> 0:47:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the super Sonics Washington.

0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Steve. That was a great That was a great one.

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:46.799
<v Speaker 2>I had not heard anything about that, and.

0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:49.400
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of crazy to hear some It's amazing.

0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Some people in Kentucky making eight hundred million dollars. Northern

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Kentucky probably too. Yeah, if you want to get in

0:47:56.160 --> 0:47:58.360
<v Speaker 2>touch with this, like Steve did, you can send us

0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.359
<v Speaker 2>an email. Send it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio

0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:05.040
<v Speaker 2>dot com.

0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:12.319
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts, Myheart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:14.280
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.