WEBVTT - Ep 121: Weyes Blood

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<v Speaker 1>There are definitely times that people you know, will be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's from Hollywood, She's from Hollywood, And I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't live in Hollywood, but that's what they thought.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, there were definitely moments I felt discriminated against.

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<v Speaker 2>Good Evening and welcome back to Midnight Chats after quite

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<v Speaker 2>some time off, we're back. I'm Stuart Stubbs and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>here with Greg Cochran. Heist you. It's good to be back.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been a minute. This is it, isn't it? We're

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<v Speaker 2>back for quite a while here. We've got like a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of episodes coming up every Tuesday night at midnight.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you're already a subscriber, you're locked in. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're not, then please I don't think they call it subscribing,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's called follow. That's how long we've been away.

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<v Speaker 2>They've changed, They've changed the way they talk about podcasts.

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<v Speaker 3>They have changed the way they talk about podcasts. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we're going to be here every week bringing you some

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<v Speaker 3>of the biggest and best guests that we've ever had

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<v Speaker 3>on Midnight Chats. So it's so exciting to be to

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<v Speaker 3>be back. And we've yeah, we've been recording some conversations

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<v Speaker 3>to bring all of you listeners for the weeks and

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<v Speaker 3>the months to come. And we're starting with a banger Stu,

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<v Speaker 3>a conversation that you had.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. Tonight's guest is wise Blood and this is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the first, one of the earliest ones I recorded

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<v Speaker 2>for this new run. Recorded this back in November twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three. Natalie Marhring is Marring Marring Merring, Mrring. Natalie

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<v Speaker 2>was in la where she was born and where she

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<v Speaker 2>now lives. I was in London. This is a remote record.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of these are going to be remote, some are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be face to face. This is a remote one.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, she's got such a good voice for this.

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<v Speaker 2>This is like the perfect podcast voice. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>reasons why we wanted to start this new run with

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<v Speaker 2>wise Blood. As I say, Natalie grew up in She

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<v Speaker 2>was born in LA and then she moved to Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 2>Then she bounced around to Portland and people might not

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<v Speaker 2>know this, but she got very heavily involved in noise

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<v Speaker 2>music and experimental dr music. Sounds kind of strange now,

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<v Speaker 2>right when you think of what wise Blood record sounds like.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like sort of the Carpenter's soundtracking The Apocalypse.

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<v Speaker 2>But back then she was making all sorts of strange music,

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<v Speaker 2>So we talk about We talked to talk about lots

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<v Speaker 2>of things because her most recent albums have already been

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<v Speaker 2>out a year, so she wasn't in like four let's

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<v Speaker 2>sell this new record that Records called and in the

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<v Speaker 2>Darkness Hearts Aglow. We talk a little bit about that,

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<v Speaker 2>but we actually just talk more broadly about her life

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<v Speaker 2>in music.

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<v Speaker 3>And going and growing up in the same town as Pink,

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<v Speaker 3>growing up.

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<v Speaker 2>In the same town as Pink, Meeting lou Reid at

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<v Speaker 2>a rally in New York, and Lou reads one of

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<v Speaker 2>those people that tends to his name, pops up quite

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<v Speaker 2>a lot on midnight chats. I find always has done

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<v Speaker 2>all these, you know, one hundred and twenty episodes before

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<v Speaker 2>this one. He pops up every now and then. People

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<v Speaker 2>like to talk about lou Reid, and actually this is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the very rare times he's mentioned where he

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<v Speaker 2>was nice to somebody. Yeah, it was notoriously grumpy, bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a grouch. So we hope you enjoyed this first

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<v Speaker 2>episode back with Wise Blood. Give it a review. Another

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<v Speaker 2>couple of new things that we've got. As well as

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<v Speaker 2>this new run, we've got some new social channels which

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<v Speaker 2>we've not had before. We're on Instagram and we're on

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok Midnight Chats Pod. Give us a follow on there.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to be posting some clips and video clips

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<v Speaker 2>from the interviews and other bits and pieces us laughing

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<v Speaker 2>about looking very handsome. So please find us over there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's brand new, but for now here is Wiseblud on

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<v Speaker 2>tonight's episode of Midnight Chats. The first time I saw

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<v Speaker 2>you was here in London. It was in twenty fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>and you put you were one hundred percent solo at

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<v Speaker 2>that point. I'm pretty sure it was just you and

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<v Speaker 2>a guitar and acoustic guitar, and you played at a

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<v Speaker 2>place called the lock Tavern, which is a small pub

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<v Speaker 2>Camden Is upstairs.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember that really clearly.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm guessing this would have been when you were touring

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<v Speaker 2>The Innocence, right if it was twenty fifteen, Yeah, Would

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<v Speaker 2>that have been your first sort of trip to the UK? No?

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<v Speaker 1>Actually so, I toured in a band called Jackie O

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<v Speaker 1>Motherfucker in two thousand and seven, which was like a weird,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of kind of free experimental noise band from Portland, Oregon,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would do like solo wise blood shows on

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<v Speaker 1>certain shows, and then I kind of broke off of

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<v Speaker 1>that tour and did like a weird solo tour. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that was, you know, so deep in the history of

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<v Speaker 1>my musical trajectory. I was like nineteen and playing very loud,

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<v Speaker 1>crazy noise music and then with Jackie Oh, it was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of this very folky, improv kind of grungy situation.

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<v Speaker 1>It was. It was a cool time in music where

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<v Speaker 1>you could be a band like that and book a

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<v Speaker 1>tour and there was just such a community of people

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<v Speaker 1>interested in experimental music. There's so much support that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, taking trains and staying with with

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<v Speaker 1>promoters and friends, and it's very different than the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of tours I did later.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you miss that that that way of doing it

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<v Speaker 2>at all?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, not like exactly, but I do really miss

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<v Speaker 1>the community. There is something really nice about coming to

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<v Speaker 1>a show and knowing people are going to come.

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<v Speaker 2>We've put on shows before for our magazine and I

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<v Speaker 2>have hated it, and I've hated that. Yeah, that feeling

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<v Speaker 2>of is anyone going to show up tonight?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I will say that I actually enjoy. I

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<v Speaker 1>did enjoy when nobody would come, like I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's more just like it makes financially more sense

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<v Speaker 1>to tour knowing people are going to come, but but like, spiritually,

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<v Speaker 1>there's something so special about the shows that people were

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<v Speaker 1>very sparsely attended at, Like the shows that I saw

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<v Speaker 1>a kid of bands, you know, coming through Philly that like,

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<v Speaker 1>I think I saw that band Hella play to like

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<v Speaker 1>nine people, and the drummer Zach I wish I could

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<v Speaker 1>remember his last name. He's the drummer of Death Grips.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And watching him play to nine people in like

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, a church basement as a teenager just

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<v Speaker 1>completely blew my mind. And I think if it was

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<v Speaker 1>full of people would have been cool too, But there

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<v Speaker 1>was something so unique about having such an intimate experience,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was always into that. I always loved small shows,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, playing for five people, I mean, maybe the

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<v Speaker 1>worst thing is playing for no people, but luckily, luckily

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<v Speaker 1>there was at least one person always.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I know Jackie O motherfucker and the music,

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<v Speaker 2>and I can completely hear their influence on what you're

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<v Speaker 2>doing now when you're saying like you'd play in that band,

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<v Speaker 2>but then you do your solo shows as well. Was

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<v Speaker 2>that under the name wise Blood Stale?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it was spilled b l uhd?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? Was it really aggressive noise?

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<v Speaker 1>I think there were hints of, you know, the Wise

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<v Speaker 1>Blood of the Future even in that, because there were songs,

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<v Speaker 1>they were just very much like loud and kind of

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<v Speaker 1>droning and blasting with the electric guitar. I had this

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<v Speaker 1>instrument that I built that was basically like a six

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<v Speaker 1>foot long slide guitar, and I would play the harmonics

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<v Speaker 1>on that and run my voice through it and have

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<v Speaker 1>tapes going and loops and you know, like it was

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<v Speaker 1>very modal, and I was very inspired by Nico and

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<v Speaker 1>the Velvet Underground. So there were songs in there, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was just kind of very loud. Those days were great,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think I never did a wonderful job of

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<v Speaker 1>documenting them. I was kind of too chicken to really

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<v Speaker 1>put out records because people offered me, but it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>until I think three years later I put out my

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<v Speaker 1>first album. After that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, would that have been the one on Not Not Fun?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I love that LABEO was that label was still going.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. I think they're just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a l SEE thing, but they I could be wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't touched base with them in a really long time.

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<v Speaker 1>I did make one other album before that called Strange

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<v Speaker 1>Chalices of Seeing. That was just a CDR that I

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<v Speaker 1>would sell at my shows.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're in LA. Now. You were born in LA,

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<v Speaker 2>but you grew up in Pennsylvania, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I moved around a lot as a kid. I

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<v Speaker 1>moved to Pennsylvania when I was eleven, so I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of spent the most of my formative years there.

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<v Speaker 2>And until then you were in LA. So you have

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<v Speaker 2>memories of La as a kid, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Big time? Yeah. I mean I consider California my true

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<v Speaker 1>true home. In Pennsylvania is like I always felt like

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<v Speaker 1>an outsider on the East Coast. I always wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>be from there, but it's such an old place that's

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<v Speaker 1>so like, you know, stubborn and stuck in its ways.

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<v Speaker 2>What was it that made you want to be from

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<v Speaker 2>the East Coast?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think yeah, because it just seemed cooler, It

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<v Speaker 1>just seemed less And I mean now I've kind of

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<v Speaker 1>grown to be more into the California thing. But California

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<v Speaker 1>is so progressive that, you know, it has this weird

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<v Speaker 1>nights to it. It's kind of lost and all the

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<v Speaker 1>culture is like completely fabricated, kind of smoke and mirrors culture,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of coinciding with also like the hippie movement,

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<v Speaker 1>which is very inspirational to me, like I love you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all that stereotypical stuff. But the East Coast has a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of Ivy League schools and people you know, read books,

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<v Speaker 1>So there's this the kind of cool that comes out

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<v Speaker 1>of the East Coast. I would compare it like the

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<v Speaker 1>Velvet Underground versus The Grateful Dead, Like both wonderful bands,

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<v Speaker 1>but the Velvet Underground just has this this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like reaching back into the nineteenth century kind of art trajectory.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, can you remember when you sort of realized

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<v Speaker 2>what LA was to the rest of the world, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>how it's looked upon the film industry, the whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>that is LA. Because obviously, when you're when you're when

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<v Speaker 2>you're born there, it's sort of for a certain amount

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<v Speaker 2>of time. I imagine when this is just home, it's

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<v Speaker 2>all I know. But can you remember when you sort

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<v Speaker 2>of was it. Once you moved away, you realized how

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<v Speaker 2>people felt about LA and how they sort of look

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<v Speaker 2>upon it, or was it whilst you was still there.

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<v Speaker 1>There were definitely times that people, you know, would be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's from Hollywood, She's from Hollywood, And I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't live in Hollywood, but that's what they thought.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, there were definitely moments I felt discriminated against,

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<v Speaker 1>just from like I think one time, like a yard

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<v Speaker 1>patrol person, like when you had recess, there's always like

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<v Speaker 1>adults kind of patrolling the situation. And I talked back

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<v Speaker 1>to her something and she said something like La La

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<v Speaker 1>Land or something like that. But to this day, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if I imagined it, like I wondered if

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<v Speaker 1>I just created my own fantasy about it being so unique,

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<v Speaker 1>but people were just like whatever. I mean. Culturally, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a culture shock, like going from LA to rural Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very different. But I remember also being so inspired

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<v Speaker 1>by like history, like being confronted with you know, history

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<v Speaker 1>that's hundreds and hundreds of years old, versus everything being

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<v Speaker 1>relatively kind of new.

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<v Speaker 2>Now considering what you do and do you have any

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<v Speaker 2>dealings with Hollywood? Do you ever sort of dip your

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<v Speaker 2>toe in that world.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, just as much as any other musician. I

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<v Speaker 1>guess maybe a little more because I love movies. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I mean you can, you can if you

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<v Speaker 1>want that. You can definitely roll up in LA and

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<v Speaker 1>you can go to parties and you can see celebs

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<v Speaker 1>if you want. It's a bit of a spectacle. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily like seek that out, but I'm sure it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's something that could be intoxicating to somebody who's never

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<v Speaker 1>experienced it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I find it very intoxicating. Have you been. Yeah, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's you know, that's the trade. We've got

0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.280
<v Speaker 2>the really old buildings and you've got the movie system

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and the stars, and it's very there.

0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Was I will tell one funny story. I actually have

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a roommate and he's way more connected with the film

0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.240
<v Speaker 1>industry because he dated an actress for a long time,

0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.320
<v Speaker 1>and so we were watching the Golden Globes just for fun,

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.439
<v Speaker 1>and then afterward he was like, well, that was pretty cool.

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to go see all those people? And

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.840
<v Speaker 1>I was just kind of like, I'm in my pajamas,

0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, and he's just like, throw on a dress.

0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:19.840
<v Speaker 1>And so I just put on a dress and we

0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 1>rolled to this party and saw like everybody. It was

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.960
<v Speaker 1>like the Golden Globes like after party or whatever, and

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.840
<v Speaker 1>saw everybody, and I remember thinking, like, you know, just

0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.040
<v Speaker 1>a second ago, I was like going to go to sleep,

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>and here I am like standing and Leo just walked

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.839
<v Speaker 1>by or whatever, and it was it was definitely fascinating.

0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I get bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is this is

0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 2>the allure of of La La to me.

0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I do think it's like it is important

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.600
<v Speaker 1>at least to mention that like the whole kind of

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 1>institution of fame and celebrity is really, you know, kind

0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.560
<v Speaker 1>of depressing. So I think, you know, living in La

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.840
<v Speaker 1>being from here and having you know, different qualities that

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.200
<v Speaker 1>I associate with it sometimes I do think that like

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that kind of attitude towards it makes it way less interesting. Yeah,

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, like as a community, I think that it's

0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 1>already really difficult because it's a huge sprawl of a

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.520
<v Speaker 1>city that's everything's just so spread out. It's like these

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 1>little tiny villages and so like to have a social

0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.960
<v Speaker 1>atmosphere kind of based on people, you know, trying to

0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>be in the right place at the right moment and

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>not really kind of being you know, present. It makes

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 1>for like, yeah, pretty dramatic variation and like social engagement

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.439
<v Speaker 1>when I think other cities have maybe a little bit

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.719
<v Speaker 1>more of a genuine, you know, physical situation like New York,

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.760
<v Speaker 1>where you kind of have to be around everybody all

0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 1>the time. Yes, I'm in La. You kind of drive

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 1>around in your pod and you pick and choose, and yeah,

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I can get really psychedelic. And I think that I

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 1>find it sad when people and artists and musicians move

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.480
<v Speaker 1>here and kind of just you know, want to sleep

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.160
<v Speaker 1>with a movie star and that's like why they're here.

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I think people I think La has changed, you know,

0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>I think people move here now to do music and

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>be cool.

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>How do you think it's better for it? Do you

0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 2>think that's a good thing.

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.600
<v Speaker 1>No. I think that a part of maybe what was

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>so cool about LA in the past was that it

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.360
<v Speaker 1>really did have a very distinct quality to it because

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.160
<v Speaker 1>it was it wasn't your typical city. And then I

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 1>think when a lot of people moved here, some of

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 1>those qualities, you know, kind of got a little blurred

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 1>with just basic gentrification. But I do think that that

0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 1>is the perspective any person would have, you know, like oh,

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 1>ten or fifteen years ago, it was really great. You know,

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 1>it's like that is definitely you know, just kind of

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 1>me revealing my age at that point.

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 2>What was Doyle's town like, because that's where that those

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>formative years we were talking about in Pennsylvania that we

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>were in Doylestown.

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, Doyle Doto.

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Doto is that what it's called.

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>That's what we would call it. Okay, Doylestown is like

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 1>a very cute small town near a lot of farms.

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 1>There's actually like a burrough with like a little clock

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 1>tower and an old tile factory from the nineteenth century

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>that's all made of cement. And yeah, I mean it was.

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.400
<v Speaker 1>It was definitely like, you know, not much going on.

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 1>There's a cool community of you know, hardcore bands.

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.359
<v Speaker 2>I've read that Pink is from Doylestown.

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the artist Pink totally. She was just In Guarini.

0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Who's just In Goreini? I don't know.

0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 1>He was the first American idol. He was him and

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Kelly Clarkson against each other.

0:15:58.200 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh and did did Kelly win that?

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Yeah, she won.

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:01.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Pink. Pinks are quite a bit older than you, maybe

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 2>ten years older than you, I think. So it's not

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 2>like you. You probably wouldn't have come into like contact with

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>her at school and stuff.

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 1>I met her once in middle of school, Oh you did.

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>She came and visited my choir teacher. That was her

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 1>choir teacher.

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Was this once she had already become a star mm hmm.

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I just remember I went up to her

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, do you like the Kids in

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>the Hall? Because I was like obsessed with that TV show,

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 1>The Kids in the Hall. And she's like, I like

0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>that show. That's all we said to each other.

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 2>That's that's a nice And you haven't met since, no,

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>but when you do meet her, you're going to have

0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>lots to talk about.

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk about Doorstown, I know. She so I live

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 1>off a road called Pebble Hill Road, and I remember

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 1>she had some connection to that road. She would like

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.480
<v Speaker 1>practice with some grungy band.

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 2>So at what point did you move to Portland for college?

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I went to college for one year in Portland.

0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 2>You went into the noisey that but were you already

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of interesting?

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>So I got into noise in high school. I think

0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 1>it was when I started going to shows in the city.

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.480
<v Speaker 1>I take the train to Philly and just try to

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.199
<v Speaker 1>go to as many shows as I could. And I mean,

0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the hardcore noise kind of overlap was just kind of

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.040
<v Speaker 1>starting to happen. And I saw this band Buzzard Stain,

0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 1>which was yeah, Nate from wolf Ey's and Twig from

0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Nautical Almanac, and that was, like, I guess, the first

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 1>proper noise band that I saw live. And I just

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 1>remember immediately being like, this is the future, Like this

0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.119
<v Speaker 1>is it. These guys have cracked the code. This is

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 1>completely new. It completely deconstructs rock and roll, like this

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:46.440
<v Speaker 1>is the logic, logical progression of music. So I really

0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.480
<v Speaker 1>drank the kool aid, and then I, you know, got

0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 1>the Wolfy's sub Pop record and started just going to

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 1>record stores and combing the new Arrival section and looking

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.359
<v Speaker 1>for weird kind of noisy music. And then, you know,

0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 1>because the Internet that was starting to happen, getting on

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 1>MySpace and kind of posting my weird kind of noisy

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 1>music to MySpace. I met a lot of people. It's

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.440
<v Speaker 1>really funny. When I later on, when I lived in Baltimore,

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.000
<v Speaker 1>I met Alex from Beach House and we were just

0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.080
<v Speaker 1>chatting and he's like, you know, what's really funny? Maybe

0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.400
<v Speaker 1>like in two thousand and six, I saw your MySpace

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.400
<v Speaker 1>page and I thought it was really weird and cool

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.119
<v Speaker 1>and I never forgot that and I was just like, yeah,

0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 1>like that was a cool time. You know, you could

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 1>book a whole tour on MySpace. It was really funny.

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 2>It was great, wasn't it. It was like sort of

0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the I guess it was this little window when social

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>media was sort of felt quite pure and very community led.

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 2>People hadn't started just using it to sort of it

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been weaponized as much, I guess, or it hadn't

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.600
<v Speaker 2>been co opted. And no, I think because it was

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:56.919
<v Speaker 2>so music focused that you know, you just discovered so

0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 2>much stuff and it was just it had just had

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.919
<v Speaker 2>a real diy quality to it, didn't it that I

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.400
<v Speaker 2>think it did. Yeah.

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that's because that kind of golden age we're

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 1>talking about was when people were taking what they knew

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 1>from real life and just applying it to the medium, yes,

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.919
<v Speaker 1>versus the medium informing real life, which I think like

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.680
<v Speaker 1>at a certain point the scales tipped. Sure, but like yeah,

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 1>you'd go on MySpace and you'd connect with people, but

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.560
<v Speaker 1>you would connect with them because you wanted to find

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.040
<v Speaker 1>out where to go. You know. It wasn't like this

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.880
<v Speaker 1>disembodied Internet only presence.

0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and people weren't really lurking on there like you know,

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 2>everybody felt it felt like everybody was active. If you

0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.400
<v Speaker 2>were on it, you were contributing something to it.

0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:44.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.199
<v Speaker 1>I lurked a little bit too. I've always been a lurker.

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:50.160
<v Speaker 1>What happened?

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.160
<v Speaker 2>How are you with like like social media now?

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I try not to get to into it.

0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm like everybody else where, like the algorithm has figured

0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.679
<v Speaker 1>out the reels that I want to see. And I

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.439
<v Speaker 1>mean I'm kind of just as complicit as most people,

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 1>which is funny because I do preach the negative effects

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of having your life constantly kind of interrupted by this

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:21.000
<v Speaker 1>dopamine machine. But I think for me, touring and kind

0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.680
<v Speaker 1>of engaging with my fans kind of eclipsed my desire

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 1>to be you know, totally private. Doing an album cycle

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 1>and doing social media at the same time was really fun,

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.119
<v Speaker 1>just to let them know what's going on. Because I

0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.879
<v Speaker 1>think nowadays we don't have necessarily the same kind of

0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:40.159
<v Speaker 1>music journalism we used to do, and getting people to

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 1>know about what's happening is difficult, and especially with the

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.479
<v Speaker 1>algorithm too, Like who knows if your fans or your

0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 1>followers are even going to see your posts. So I

0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.679
<v Speaker 1>think it is important to stay engaged with your fans.

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 1>So I kind of look at it like it's really

0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 1>between me and them, and everything else is just kind

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:03.119
<v Speaker 1>of whatever, and I can't pretend to be anything that

0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm not, so I kind of gave up on that

0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>a long time ago. I would say, though, like last

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:13.919
<v Speaker 1>thought about social media is I do think the industry

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>of music kind of I think people who do nine

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.359
<v Speaker 1>to five's at a label or like you know, A

0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and R people, I don't think they really know why

0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.399
<v Speaker 1>people love music. And I think they think, oh, you

0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 1>just need to get viral or you just need to

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 1>be like out there, like look at these numbers, you know,

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Like that's all true, But I think there's like a

0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:40.240
<v Speaker 1>deeper mystery to what makes music good, and the people

0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 1>that actually just record really good music and make good

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.880
<v Speaker 1>songs don't have to be on social media, as you see,

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 1>like sometimes the biggest people eventually just say like see

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.720
<v Speaker 1>you like, no need. So I do think that that's

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 1>a myth that needs to be broken as this idea

0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>that like, oh, I'm a musician and it's so hard

0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 1>because I have to keep posting, and it's like sadly,

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.679
<v Speaker 1>maybe you should listen to your music and you know,

0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>like kind of take it from there versus we work

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.960
<v Speaker 1>on catching up with all the TikTok trends. Like I

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 1>think if people focused more on on, you know, writing

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 1>great music, it would create a better environment versus like

0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 1>learning how to be digitally savvy or something. I don't know.

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that's true of new artists as well, though,

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:30.919
<v Speaker 2>because someone might see her for example, you know, she

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 2>definitely doesn't need to be on there, but she's sort

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 2>of already got that fan base that's going to find

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.159
<v Speaker 2>the stuff. I think if you're sort of operating in

0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 2>an underground DIY scene, then maybe you're you're still sort

0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>of attracting an audience, a core audience, in quite an

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:51.199
<v Speaker 2>effective way without it, And then there seems to me

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.600
<v Speaker 2>to be this big gap between that sort of crowd

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>of artists and you know, established artists who without it

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.760
<v Speaker 2>would sort of be a bit stuck with how do

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 2>they know? Share release dates, all of that sort of thing.

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think they therefore are forced into falling into

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 2>this world where the social media becomes almost as important

0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:14.919
<v Speaker 2>as the thing they're making.

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, no, of course. I think what I mean

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.200
<v Speaker 1>more is actually, like you do when there's no way

0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:23.640
<v Speaker 1>for anybody to know anything about you, it is important

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.560
<v Speaker 1>to have like a centralized place that exists in the

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 1>hyperspace of the Internet for people to find out whether

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:31.840
<v Speaker 1>or not that's your voice, or whether or not you're

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:35.000
<v Speaker 1>posting selfies or posting what you ate that day. I mean,

0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of more. What I'm talking about is like

0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.720
<v Speaker 1>you can be like a you know, you can have

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 1>information about you on the Internet, and unfortunately without the

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.280
<v Speaker 1>same kind of DIY scene that I used to have

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.600
<v Speaker 1>in terms of just like being on a tour circuit,

0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.359
<v Speaker 1>a lot of those venues shut down, so it is

0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:56.960
<v Speaker 1>harder to kind of tour and build this grassroots IRL presence.

0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:02.240
<v Speaker 1>But I still think that, you know, the music is

0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.879
<v Speaker 1>what gets you to the place.

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely, talking of venues that shut down,

0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:12.080
<v Speaker 2>is the smell still there in LA or is that gone?

0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>The smell is still here?

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 2>It is still there? Okay, nice, because I remember.

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:17.359
<v Speaker 1>I think it's an institution.

0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:23.040
<v Speaker 2>I got so into the first Health album Oh Yeah,

0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.160
<v Speaker 2>which they recorded in the inside the Smell. I think

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.399
<v Speaker 2>they spent days just hitting snares in there and micing

0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:32.480
<v Speaker 2>it all up. And around that time I became really

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 2>sort of just fascinated by that whole scene and that venue,

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 2>and it was, you know, had a bit of sort

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 2>of presence in UK, sort of underground media, I guess,

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>but I haven't haven't heard it written about for a while,

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:46.679
<v Speaker 2>so I was wondering if it was if it was

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 2>still there, or if it had been sort of you know,

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 2>closed for whatever reason. But good to hear that still there.

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I also think there was a my

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.000
<v Speaker 1>friend had a DIY space for a while and he

0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>shut it down because people just wouldn't show up. And

0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:01.960
<v Speaker 1>my my other friend in Nashville made a joke T

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:05.680
<v Speaker 1>shirt called yeah I Love DIY, and then across DIY

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:11.360
<v Speaker 1>was spelled doubt I'll go to your show. So, I mean,

0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I do think there's a couple of reasons why the

0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 1>DIY scene dried up. I do think in some ways

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:24.439
<v Speaker 1>people became less interesting performers, and I think that people

0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.920
<v Speaker 1>also started being there looking at their phones, not thinking

0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.000
<v Speaker 1>it was the center of the universe, like being like, oh,

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>there might be another place to be, or like this

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:37.919
<v Speaker 1>might not be the place, and that lack of you know,

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:40.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of focused because when I was young, it's like

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.199
<v Speaker 1>any show you'd go to, you'd show up and it

0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:44.119
<v Speaker 1>just felt like the center of the universe. It felt

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>like there was no other place you could possibly want

0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.439
<v Speaker 1>to be or be like that was the place. And

0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if people still get that feeling as

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:54.600
<v Speaker 1>much at these little shows. I'm sure they do. I

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:58.119
<v Speaker 1>think it's kind of always going to be subsisting in

0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:02.199
<v Speaker 1>the underground of with like young people always, but I

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:06.679
<v Speaker 1>do think that there was like a noticeable dip in attendance.

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 1>It shows like that at a certain point, and I

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:11.639
<v Speaker 1>do think a part of it is the phone.

0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 2>The phones generally bother you when you're on stage.

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean I noticed when people are filming me and

0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:18.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh, I hope it sounds.

0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.879
<v Speaker 2>Good, but it doesn't bother you that that doing that

0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 2>rather than just listening.

0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:27.200
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean I don't. I'm not that like, I'm

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 1>not going to Bob Dylan it. I'm not going to

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:34.920
<v Speaker 1>be like put your phone down. I to each his own.

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:40.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, one thing I really wanted to ask you

0:26:40.880 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 2>about was the front cover the album art of Titanic Rising,

0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:52.399
<v Speaker 2>because it's such an amazing photo, and I wanted to

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 2>ask you how you created it and is it essentially

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:59.600
<v Speaker 2>as simple as it looks. I'm sure everyone does know

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:02.199
<v Speaker 2>what this image I'm talking about looks like, but in

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:06.480
<v Speaker 2>case they don't, it is an underwater a bedroom that

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:10.600
<v Speaker 2>is completely submerged underwater, and you're at the bottom of

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.600
<v Speaker 2>the tank. I guess if you shot it in a tank,

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:16.800
<v Speaker 2>as if you're standing in the room that has got

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 2>a desk in it and a bed and a laptop,

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, and stuff's on the table, and it's so

0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:26.439
<v Speaker 2>beautifully shot. But it's sort of a I'll put a

0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 2>link under this podcast so people can view it easily.

0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:32.880
<v Speaker 2>But how did that image come about? And how did

0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:34.080
<v Speaker 2>you do it?

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:38.919
<v Speaker 1>I did it in a swimming pool. I found a

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.960
<v Speaker 1>photographer who liked to shoot things underwater, who knew about

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>what it was like to work underwater, because everything is

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.600
<v Speaker 1>twice as hard, it takes twice as much time, twice

0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:52.560
<v Speaker 1>as many things can go wrong. I bet you can't breathe,

0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:58.119
<v Speaker 1>you know. So I was the root of the idea

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>started with I was talking to my roommate at the time,

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:05.439
<v Speaker 1>who's a painter Ariana Popata Metropolis. She's a really brilliant painter,

0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, I really want to do an

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:11.119
<v Speaker 1>underwater album cover, and I want it to be like

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 1>a living room and I'm like sitting on the couch,

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:16.119
<v Speaker 1>and then she kind of was like, hmm, maybe you

0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>should do a bedroom. And then I was like, oh

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.800
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, that's an incredible idea. So then I kind

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:25.399
<v Speaker 1>of gathered all the stuff for the bedroom, like I

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.520
<v Speaker 1>found things in the trash, I thrifted. I did all

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:32.600
<v Speaker 1>the creative direction, you know, with that with my manager

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:35.480
<v Speaker 1>at the time, and we actually hired somebody to build

0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the set underwater, but he failed because he didn't realize

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 1>how difficult it would be. So the second time around,

0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:43.880
<v Speaker 1>we were successful in making the walls and kind of

0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 1>stapling everything down so it didn't completely float away, and

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:49.560
<v Speaker 1>then we had, you know, a good three hours to

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:53.440
<v Speaker 1>shoot before everything started to disintegrate and bloat and really change.

0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 1>So it was like this very time and space capturing moment.

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I've got it. I've got it in front of me.

0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Here there's a dressing little dressing table on the right,

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:05.320
<v Speaker 2>But there's a sort of chest of draws I guess

0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 2>at the back there where you're high fi on it,

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 2>which I can see is sort of bowing. Was that

0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 2>because of the water or was it?

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, right, so when you put it in there, it

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:15.240
<v Speaker 2>wasn't doing that.

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's all like kind of particle wood furniture.

0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 1>So yeah.

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>You also look because you're in it as well, and

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:25.080
<v Speaker 2>you look so sort of you look very relaxed, and

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.600
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't look like you're being wayed down. Did you

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:30.520
<v Speaker 2>just work?

0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Did you you just got to exhale?

0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, like a free diver. Yeah.

0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 1>No, there was like a major learning curve with like

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 1>getting over the feeling of being in there and being

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.560
<v Speaker 1>like you're going to die because you're holding your breath

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 1>and kind of the mind over matter of like getting

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:47.520
<v Speaker 1>down and like sinking into the room and just spending

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, like kind of like ten seconds at a

0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:53.520
<v Speaker 1>time relaxed and then kind of going back up for air.

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 1>And it was really really difficult because the chlorine in

0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 1>the water was really intense. So by the end of

0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>the night I actually couldn't see anything. I was like

0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 1>blinded by how many hours I'd spent with my eyes

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 1>open underwater. Yeah, it was. You know, the sacrifices we

0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:11.640
<v Speaker 1>make for our it's really beautiful. It's all worth it.

0:30:11.720 --> 0:30:14.720
<v Speaker 2>We appreciate it as fans, we appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely,

0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:18.760
<v Speaker 2>it's worth it. Yeah. It's been a year almost to

0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 2>the day since, and the darkness heart's aglow. Do you

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:26.400
<v Speaker 2>genuinely like looking back on things or are you more

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 2>head forward looking for the next thing.

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking for the next thing usually, Yeah, especially with

0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 1>recorded music, because you spend so much time making it

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.440
<v Speaker 1>and recording it and mixing it that by the end

0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 1>of it you're kind of like, I just want to

0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 1>make another thing now to erase that memory, and then

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 1>also playing it for a year, you know, is really

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 1>fun and rewarding, but also like, yeah, you want to

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:53.280
<v Speaker 1>play new songs after a while.

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Is the plan still for the next record to be

0:30:55.400 --> 0:30:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the final part of the trilogy that you're currently working on,

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 2>Withonic Rising being the first part, the current album being

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:06.800
<v Speaker 2>the second. You've got one more, Yeah, which is going

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 2>to be from what I've heard and read in interviews

0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:16.959
<v Speaker 2>from yourself, hopeful, we're into the hope stage. Is that

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:17.600
<v Speaker 2>still the plan.

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've been writing, and I haven't really gone into

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>the studio yet, but I've been writing a lot.

0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 2>How's twenty twenty three been for you? Generally?

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Life changing? I think this year, I mean I love

0:31:30.320 --> 0:31:32.479
<v Speaker 1>twenty three anyway, So I kind of had good feelings

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 1>about the year anyway, But it was it was all chemical,

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 1>you know. I think, like everybody else, my experience of

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the pandemic really shifted my relationship with the world and myself,

0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and it was a pretty jarring experience for me. So

0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:51.520
<v Speaker 1>getting to come back out and sing these songs and

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 1>share it with an audience was really healing and kind

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.800
<v Speaker 1>of like reaching this point of just running on pure spirit.

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Because it was also really exhausting, because the pandemic was

0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:06.160
<v Speaker 1>such an exhausting experience, Like there would be these kind

0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:09.480
<v Speaker 1>of expansions and then contraction where it's like summer twenty

0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty one, we're back and everybody's raging, and then all

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:14.560
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, like, no, we're not back, you know,

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Like I think there was a little stop and go,

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.480
<v Speaker 1>stop and go, and so like everybody kind of had

0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:25.640
<v Speaker 1>their own reactions at different times because it was it dragged, dragged.

0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>On twenty one was my worst, and then twenty twenty

0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:31.480
<v Speaker 2>twenty one, what was that real? That was as low

0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 2>as it could get, I think for me.

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:34.880
<v Speaker 1>But the parties in that summer were some of the

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 1>most fun parties I've ever been to.

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:40.720
<v Speaker 2>So did you have a good time at Glastonbury this year?

0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:41.239
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I loved it. It was one of the best.

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Was that your first time or you'd been before?

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.880
<v Speaker 1>That was my first time? I also like I had

0:32:49.920 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 1>like a midlife club crisis. What is it? Is it

0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 1>called Sector nine? What is the section of the festival

0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:03.920
<v Speaker 1>that's all the clubs, It's you know, Block nine, Block nine. Yeah, yeah, No,

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:08.600
<v Speaker 1>I had a really good time at Block nine, and

0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I just found like the whole vibe of the festival

0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:12.560
<v Speaker 1>was so magical and it's so you know, funny that

0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 1>like we in America had Woodstock, but we just could

0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>not keep that energy going. And it's amazing that in

0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the UK you guys have kept that energy going since

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the early seventies with one festival. It's pretty miraculous.

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.280
<v Speaker 2>It's just amazing how yeah, that they've sustained it and

0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:32.920
<v Speaker 2>it hasn't got sort of fucked up in any way,

0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:35.000
<v Speaker 2>like with you know, they still don't really have a

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:38.040
<v Speaker 2>they don't have a big sponsor. The money goes to,

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:42.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, their partners, Green Peace, and it's it's it's

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:46.080
<v Speaker 2>this one weekend where everyone can sort of just experience

0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:51.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of how good things could be, perhaps for a

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:53.480
<v Speaker 2>finite time. I mean, I don't think I want to

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>live in Grastonbury forever, but whilst it's on it, I

0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:58.800
<v Speaker 2>mean it's quite it's quite unvaiable. I'm glad. I'm glad

0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you enjoyed it. You played under make you played a

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 2>lovely stage as well. That park stage on the Hill

0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.120
<v Speaker 2>is really a nice spot.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:06.520
<v Speaker 1>It was really special.

0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:14.759
<v Speaker 2>You're obviously a huge fan of the Velvet Underground and

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:16.920
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to ask you what it was like

0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.479
<v Speaker 2>to feature on John Kale's album Mercy this year.

0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 1>It was a huge, huge deal for me. It was

0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.200
<v Speaker 1>a really big moment. We actually recorded that many years ago.

0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 1>How I met John was I interviewed him for a

0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:34.160
<v Speaker 1>magazine and my questions were just so specific and deep

0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:36.680
<v Speaker 1>cut that I think he was a little intrigued about

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:40.520
<v Speaker 1>who I was, and he checked out my music and

0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 1>then invited me to come sing, and when I sang

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:45.520
<v Speaker 1>it was like he was, you know, kind of getting

0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:47.680
<v Speaker 1>me to sing these really low notes, which he ended

0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:50.479
<v Speaker 1>up kind of altering in post, and like the song

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 1>became unrecognizable to what we had recorded, which I thought

0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.520
<v Speaker 1>was really really creative and cool. And his studio was

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:02.320
<v Speaker 1>just kind of full of toy pianos and nothing else,

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:04.920
<v Speaker 1>which I thought was really wild, and apparently at the

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.879
<v Speaker 1>end of the recording he smashed them all. But yeah,

0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 1>just meeting him, it was so wonderful to get to

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:17.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of talk about classical music and just all these

0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:19.879
<v Speaker 1>things that I never get to talk to other musicians about.

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:23.040
<v Speaker 1>It's rare to meet somebody who there's so many meeting

0:35:23.080 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 1>points of kind of taste and kind of respect that

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:31.120
<v Speaker 1>I have for him, and every moment I get with him,

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I think is so precious.

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, for someone who loves that band, and

0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:38.279
<v Speaker 2>that band obviously means so much to you, It's sort

0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 2>of doesn't much get much better than that, does it,

0:35:42.080 --> 0:35:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Especially if the experience is a really positive one and

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you've not gone to meet John Cale and it's been.

0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:50.839
<v Speaker 1>Horrible, you know, I feel really lucky. I got to

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.239
<v Speaker 1>meet Lou Reed too, and he was really nice to me,

0:35:53.360 --> 0:35:55.160
<v Speaker 1>which is really rare. I feel like that was like

0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a weird like gift from the heavens or something. I

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.800
<v Speaker 1>was at Occupy Wall Street leaving with with a big

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:04.920
<v Speaker 1>protest sign and lou Reid literally came up to me

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and he was like, how's the protest? And then he

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.439
<v Speaker 1>took my hand and he started warming my hand because

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.120
<v Speaker 1>it was really cold, and looking into my eyes, and

0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what is going on? Like this guy's

0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 1>being so nice, and then I ran to my car.

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 1>I got a copy of The Outside Room, my first

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:25.840
<v Speaker 1>you know album, and handed it to him. And then

0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 1>I think he was a little like, oh, you do

0:36:27.280 --> 0:36:27.839
<v Speaker 1>music weird?

0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:33.719
<v Speaker 2>So he just approached you. And it wasn't because you

0:36:33.840 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>were analysis and he wanted to talk to you about that.

0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 2>He was just being a friendly guy.

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:40.360
<v Speaker 1>He just saw I was dressed pretty funny. I was

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:42.799
<v Speaker 1>like dressed in a weird medieval outfit and I had

0:36:42.840 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 1>like a you know, a sign about not letting the

0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:50.719
<v Speaker 1>capitalist zombies take over.

0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Did he join in in the in the protest or

0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:54.480
<v Speaker 2>was he passing by?

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:55.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:57.520
<v Speaker 1>He was. He was around for Occupy for sure.

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:00.919
<v Speaker 2>Definitely amazing God to me. Did you ever see him play?

0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:01.879
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I was just so young that I kind of missed.

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I also, I think at that age I wouldn't spend

0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 1>money on concert tickets, something I sorely regret now, but

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I always thought they were too expensive.

0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:19.360
<v Speaker 2>I saw him once towards the end, and it was

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:22.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, I mean, he certainly wasn't nice to

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:24.160
<v Speaker 2>the people on stage like he was to you. He

0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 2>was furious at his band. He must have liked you,

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:30.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't like me. I don't know what his band

0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:31.439
<v Speaker 2>had done, but.

0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I hear these stories all the time. It's scary,

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:36.439
<v Speaker 1>it's said.

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:39.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was pretty livid. He spent the whole time

0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:41.799
<v Speaker 2>just ragging on the whole band for everything they did.

0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:45.520
<v Speaker 2>And he played some really strange versions of Velvets tunes,

0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:47.520
<v Speaker 2>which you know is still great. You're getting to hear

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.880
<v Speaker 2>lou Reid play some Velvet underground, but he would just

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:54.279
<v Speaker 2>speak quite contrary and play them all at like half

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.759
<v Speaker 2>speed or just strange, strange lou reedness.

0:37:57.920 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 1>But you know, Bob Dylan does a very similar thing.

0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:01.319
<v Speaker 1>It's really weird.

0:38:01.440 --> 0:38:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, have you seen him?

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 1>I saw him play maybe eight years ago. I don't know.

0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.680
<v Speaker 1>His recent show is probably different. But the show that

0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:10.600
<v Speaker 1>I saw he would do, you know, like the answer

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:16.640
<v Speaker 1>my friend is blowing in the wind, Like you would

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:20.600
<v Speaker 1>just change all the timing and the audience would be

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.680
<v Speaker 1>singing the old timing. So there was like this weird, cacophonous,

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:28.719
<v Speaker 1>like kind of murky like you know version of the

0:38:28.800 --> 0:38:31.279
<v Speaker 1>song kind of roaring throughout the stadium, and he was

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:34.719
<v Speaker 1>just like free, you know, freestyling over it. It was

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 1>pretty psychedelic.

0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand why he does that.

0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.359
<v Speaker 1>I think they have to. I don't think they can

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:45.080
<v Speaker 1>keep doing the same thing for like forty to fifty

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:48.680
<v Speaker 1>sixty years, Like, yeah, that guy at this point sixty years,

0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:51.800
<v Speaker 1>could you sing the same song for sixty years?

0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:56.280
<v Speaker 2>That's true? But do you think like just don't play it?

0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Like it's fine to not play, isn't it? Because I

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>think people get more upset hearing it offbeat of strange

0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>than just not doing it.

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I don't know, I get it. It's a

0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:12.000
<v Speaker 1>weird decision, but I understand it. It's a meeting point

0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>to compromise. Just give the people what they want, but

0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 1>only a little bit.

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:24.000
<v Speaker 3>Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and Quiet

0:39:24.040 --> 0:39:28.200
<v Speaker 3>and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart Stubbs

0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:31.600
<v Speaker 3>and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines and

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 3>edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and TikTok

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.000
<v Speaker 3>to watch clips from our recordings and much much more.

0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:39.560
<v Speaker 3>We are Midnight Chats Pod.

0:39:39.800 --> 0:39:49.440
<v Speaker 2>For more information, visit loudan quiet dot com