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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump has reversed his stance

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Speaker 1: on TikTok shortly after a major donor talk to him.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: New York Times Nick Coruscinity tells us about Republicans' latest.

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Speaker 2: Moves to PURBs the voter rolls.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to Frank McCort about his new book,

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Speaker 1: Our Biggest Fight, Reclaiming liberty, humanity and dignity.

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Speaker 2: In the Digital Age. But first we have the host

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Speaker 2: of the.

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Speaker 1: Mary Trump Show, the One, the Only Mary Trump. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back Too Fast Politics, Mary Trump.

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Speaker 3: And Molly, how's it going.

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Speaker 1: I was going to do a whole introduction about how

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Speaker 1: much I like you, but I felt I would spare

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Speaker 1: you because I feel like, despite having the last name Trump,

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Speaker 1: you are not a person for whom a five minutes

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Speaker 1: soliloquy about how much you like them is an ad.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I know, it makes me wildly not uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I thought I would save you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, as a NEPO baby myself, you're

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Speaker 1: obviously not a Nepo baby, have a more complicated relationship

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Speaker 1: with your I like to call them qualifiers because it's

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Speaker 1: a little homage to alan On but with your famous

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Speaker 1: qualifier uncle. But I have a famous qualifier mother. And

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Speaker 1: so when you know my sort of qualifier does something embarrassing,

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Speaker 1: I feel quite a lot of embarrassment. Now, obviously you

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Speaker 1: are quite far removed, and you have done everything beyond

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Speaker 1: everything you could do to try and stop the freight

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Speaker 1: train that is your uncle. But I want to ask you,

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Speaker 1: as you see Lara Trump take over the RNC, not

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Speaker 1: even Don Junior's wife, but Eric's wife discuss I.

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Speaker 4: Must die, Yes, I will.

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Speaker 5: I just want to start by thing that it's different,

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Speaker 5: like I don't take Donald's horrible behavior personally, like that

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Speaker 5: doesn't embarrass me.

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Speaker 4: What horrifies me and hurts me.

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Speaker 5: And wounds me still to this day, is how many

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Speaker 5: people are okay with it and enable him to do worse.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's not his mocking President Biden's stutter, which

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Speaker 5: just as a human being is it, you know, offends

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Speaker 5: me to the core.

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Speaker 4: It's all of the people in the audience who laughed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I mean I get it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, it's just like, that's that's what we need

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Speaker 5: to worry about, and here we are. The Republican National

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Speaker 5: Committee is now, as somebody wrote on Twitter, I think

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Speaker 5: a subsidiary of the moment's shop known as the drub organization,

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Speaker 5: which is infuriating in a totally different way. On the

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Speaker 5: one hand, it's just a dangerous indicator of the dark

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Speaker 5: slide we're on towards some fanata republic, which is the

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Speaker 5: old kind of republic. Thought old is qualified to rug,

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Speaker 5: But it's just that. Also, another reminder is that there

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Speaker 5: will always be somebody or some entity, whether it's the

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Speaker 5: RNC throwing the reins over him or Trubb posting bond

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Speaker 5: for him, there will always be somebody to bail him out,

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Speaker 5: which is why we need to figure out a better

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Speaker 5: way to box him in, because clearly.

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Speaker 3: Money's not going to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an interesting thing because when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about that, and I'd love to talk for another minute

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Speaker 1: about that, the story about how Trump did make fun

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Speaker 1: of Biden for the stutter and the crowd loved it,

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Speaker 1: and that was a sort of seminal moment in like

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Speaker 1: the scraping of the bottom in which we are living.

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Speaker 1: So I do think like that is really important thing

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Speaker 1: to just sort of pause and think about for a minute.

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Speaker 1: But the RNC giving itself up to Trump, I actually

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Speaker 1: think that ultimately this is one of these careful of

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Speaker 1: what you wish for things, right, Like the rn C

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Speaker 1: Rona had a relationship with a lot of the big donors.

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Speaker 1: Big donors didn't want to give to the R and

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Speaker 1: C because very wealthy people Obviously being wealthy is not

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Speaker 1: what makes them understand it. But sophisticated investors, I think,

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Speaker 1: know that that money is going to Trump's legal fees

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Speaker 1: and not too down ballid candidates, and so for them,

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Speaker 1: I think they were hesitant to give money to Trump.

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Speaker 1: And what I was explained to me was that earlier on,

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Speaker 1: when Nicki Haley was still in it, a lot of

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Speaker 1: large dollar donors gave to Nicki Haley because they felt

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Speaker 1: that she represented a sort of more normal Republican party

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Speaker 1: tax cuts without the fascism, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, that's what they all want.

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Speaker 1: But now she's out and the RNC needs money, and

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Speaker 1: so Trump decided to put Lara in there. But Lara

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Speaker 1: has a big problem, which is even though she's very

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Speaker 1: attractive and they use her face. Now, I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: saw that on the r and see fundraising emails.

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Speaker 2: There are large dollar donors.

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Speaker 1: Who are probably pretty pissed off that Trump fired all

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Speaker 1: their people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, at sixty encounting, I thought.

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Speaker 5: I thought putting her her face on the blood red

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Speaker 5: banner was vickery Man very well done.

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Speaker 6: Was it?

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Speaker 5: I agree that they agree with you that it is

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Speaker 5: like the dog catching the car. Yeah, okay, Now, well,

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Speaker 5: now we're going to bankrupt the RNC. Even though Republicans

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Speaker 5: don't seem ever to remember this, Donald does nothing but

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Speaker 5: bankrupt things and waste money and throw money away. You know,

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Speaker 5: the fact that there's a real possibility he did not

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Speaker 5: have the eighty eight million dollars to come up to

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Speaker 5: this bond is insane.

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Speaker 4: So this is that.

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Speaker 1: Well, and then and FYI, there's still more money that

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Speaker 1: Trump needs to come up with a lot more money.

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Speaker 5: Half a billillion dollars more money, and probably more than that,

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Speaker 5: because he just defamed eating Carold again over the weekend.

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Speaker 5: So I know it's right if he's going to be

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Speaker 5: able to find other people to pay his wan of trouble,

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Speaker 5: there's no incentive for him to stop defrauding, defaming, et cetera.

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Speaker 5: And this whole RNC takeover is just another mechanism through

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Speaker 5: which he plans to use other people's money to get

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Speaker 5: himself out of trouble, because that's one of the very

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Speaker 5: few things he's good at, is burning through other people's money.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 5: The truth of the matter is that Lara Trump is

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Speaker 5: just as qualified to the organization as Donald. So they're

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Speaker 5: in serious, serious trouble. And at this point, I think

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Speaker 5: the only hope for the party, not that I'd care,

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Speaker 5: but the future of the Republican Party is if Nickie

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Speaker 5: Hailey not to endorse Donald and try to draw a line,

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Speaker 5: you know, otherwise it's it's his party now and forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, now, I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that if you wanted to have

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Speaker 1: a republic Party that was normal at some point, and

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Speaker 1: again I don't, so you know, I'm with fuck I'm.

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Speaker 2: Happy to have see them all go the way of

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Speaker 2: the wigs.

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Speaker 1: But if you were a conservative who wanted lower taxes

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Speaker 1: but not authoritarianism, you would tell Nikki Haley to keep

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Speaker 1: her powder dry and to wait this one out and

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Speaker 1: to come back in twenty twenty five when the bloodbath

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Speaker 1: is over. And try to rebuild from the ashes, and

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Speaker 1: maybe that's how that plays out, or maybe Trump wins

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Speaker 1: and we're all in Gitmo together with Jimmy Kimmel.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Jimmy Kimble and you and I and others have

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Speaker 5: seventy nine days to actually, so it's not.

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Speaker 1: That you know, thanks thank you, Mary, thank you first,

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Speaker 1: that's seventy nine days.

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Speaker 2: A life can happen in seventy nine days.

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Speaker 1: Side of residence. A good point. That's what's so weird

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Speaker 1: about this moment in American life is like every sort

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Speaker 1: of rational instinct I have says that Trump is absolute.

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Speaker 1: Just look, Trump is running for president, so he doesn't

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Speaker 1: go to jail.

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Speaker 2: I mean I didn't even say that. That was.

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Speaker 1: Republican one of the Republicans running against him, you know,

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Speaker 1: and the primary who said, you know, he's running so

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Speaker 1: he doesn't go to jail. So I mean, he's running

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Speaker 1: so he doesn't go to jail. And Republicans are still

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Speaker 1: scared of him because of Twitter, right, I mean that's

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Speaker 1: what this is, or because they're worried that they'll get primary.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all this is.

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Speaker 5: It's absolutely mind blowing that in eight years, you know,

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Speaker 5: he is completely this weak, pathetic and now quite old

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Speaker 5: man has remade his entire party into his image. And

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Speaker 5: where do you go from there? Because if things go

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Speaker 5: the way they should go and he loses, and the

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Speaker 5: fact that we've had to worry about it is such

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Speaker 5: a rustic indictment of our system. But we'll have to

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Speaker 5: deal with that at another time. If he loses, who

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Speaker 5: will ever trust this party again?

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Speaker 4: This party has.

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Speaker 5: No room to pivot to anything else, which I agree

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Speaker 5: with you is a very good thing. Let it burn

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Speaker 5: to the ground. We need something entirely out. We need

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Speaker 5: two parties. One is a progressive liberal party and the

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Speaker 5: other one the central central left party.

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Speaker 7: That's what we did in this country.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I'll take it man. Yeah, man, you know you've.

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Speaker 5: Never tried that, and we've tried to such a right

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Speaker 5: and fascist, So let's try sent your left and progressive please.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sort of seems like where we are. So

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Speaker 2: Lara's going to run the RNC.

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Speaker 1: Republicans are going to try to make the case that

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Speaker 1: Trump is totally fine and that Biden is the one

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Speaker 1: with the problems. On Monday, Trump called in to squawk

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Speaker 1: Box was it Squawkbox? CNBC? His guy, his Roy Cohen

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Speaker 1: and CNBC. By the way, I feel so bad for

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Speaker 1: all the serious people who work at CNBC who like

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Speaker 1: have to live in like mortal embarrassment of that Joe guy.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, called in spent.

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Speaker 1: Like two hours an hour, I mean the amount of

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Speaker 1: time Oh yeah, and said and was all to it,

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Speaker 1: like just rambling, had thoughts about oil. You know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of like hot takes from the nineteen eighties. What

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Speaker 1: the last time Trump read a newspaper and it was bad?

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Speaker 2: I mean, how do you square that?

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Speaker 5: It seems pretty simple to me. The Corkbork media has,

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Speaker 5: for whatever reason decided.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to just tell you CNN's take on it.

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Speaker 1: Trump's free wheelling CNBC interview gives glare willing the campaign

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Speaker 1: to come. Yeah, that was at the post of CNN.

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Speaker 2: CNN and free whilling.

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Speaker 5: But this is the thing, It's like, why didn't and

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Speaker 5: Donald to be democracy?

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Speaker 2: True? True says it's bad. Biden says it's good.

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Speaker 5: It's like one of them incited in its direction to

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Speaker 5: overthrow one the other one.

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Speaker 4: I got.

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Speaker 5: So this is this is what we're deal like with

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Speaker 5: a corporate media that when they do find something. Donald

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Speaker 5: has daughter said Nitties where they put it on page

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Speaker 5: twenty five. Otherwise it's all just baked in. He is

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Speaker 5: a rapist, So what do we need to talk about

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Speaker 5: that for any I mean, come on, we know that

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Speaker 5: he is. I cannot believe we're still having this conversation

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Speaker 5: since twenty fifteen. But it's they normalize all of it.

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Speaker 5: So that and between that and the delays in the judiciary,

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Speaker 5: which topic for you know, an other time, because that

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Speaker 5: is that is actually more dangerous and I think in

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Speaker 5: the long term more dangerous by delating. Thank you Merrek Garland.

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Speaker 5: The January sixth trial and the DIA pument stuff. What's

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Speaker 5: the message people who don't pay that much attention get

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Speaker 5: and are maybe inclined to want the status quo not

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Speaker 5: to rock any bootes. The message is it can't be

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Speaker 5: that important. If it's taking so long, what's the big deal.

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Speaker 1: Then I'm just going to interject a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Donald This is from the interview. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: a pioneer. Trump said of the indictments and the judgments

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Speaker 1: against him. What's happening is we have to be very careful.

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Speaker 2: By the way.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea that this guy is literally just

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Speaker 1: running because of the legal challenges, right, Like he's trying

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Speaker 1: to make a case that somehow defending Trump and candidate

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Speaker 1: Trump are the same person.

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Speaker 2: What's happening is we have to be very careful.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have a very fragile country, right, This

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Speaker 1: is he's talking about his legal cases. Here people are

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Speaker 1: rejecting it and they are watching. Wow.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so we got projection, and we've got paranoida. We've

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Speaker 5: got a description of the interior of his brain.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so that's just fine.

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Speaker 5: And meanwhile, who is doing anything to tell them otherwise?

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Speaker 2: There's no grown up in the Republican Party.

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Speaker 5: There's no growd up in the arts. He think about

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Speaker 5: what's happening with his cases, which is nothing. He's saying

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Speaker 5: everything needs to be delayed because of the immunity case

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Speaker 5: in front of the Supreme Court, which is its infinite wisdom.

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Speaker 5: Doesn't seem to think it's an emergency. And meanwhile, two

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Speaker 5: out of those three fredual cases is on hold because

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Speaker 5: of that. He wants the third one on hold, the

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Speaker 5: one in New York for election fraud, right, And I

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Speaker 5: was just thinking about that this morning. It's like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: he's asking for immunity. He's not asking the Supreme Court

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Speaker 5: to say that he committed no crime. So can't we

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Speaker 5: in the meantime find out if he committed a crime

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Speaker 5: and then either way, like if he against community, it

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Speaker 5: won't matter, but at least we'll know, Like, it doesn't interfere.

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Speaker 5: You have to interfere with a jew indicating the facts

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Speaker 5: and evidence, does it?

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Speaker 4: It's making me crazy?

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Speaker 2: Yes, agreed?

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Speaker 1: And I think also what we're seeing here is that

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Speaker 1: this whole lie that the Guardrails held No, they didn't

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Speaker 1: fuck be hold right, like the guy did an insurrection,

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Speaker 1: and all the people down the scale, right, the violent people,

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Speaker 1: the people who smeared the feces on the wall of

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Speaker 1: the halls of Congress, those people, right, the guy who

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Speaker 1: put his feet on the desk of Fancy Pelosi, those people.

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Speaker 1: A lot of those people are either in jail or

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Speaker 1: paying huge fines. You know who's not in jail or

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Speaker 1: paying huge fines?

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Speaker 5: Let me guess, did you get me hints? Anybody responsible

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Speaker 5: for planning the garden. It's not in jail up to

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Speaker 5: an including Doldrop.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 1: But the one good thing I think, and I'm curious

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Speaker 1: what you think about this is a number of people

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Speaker 1: think that because these sort of lower downs were taken

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Speaker 1: in that there's this sense in which these people are

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Speaker 1: less likely to do violence. Okay, but I mean it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty pathetic bright spot.

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Speaker 2: But it's all we have.

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Speaker 5: I don't even know if it is a bright spot.

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Speaker 5: First of all, on the guard rails didn't hold. And

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Speaker 5: by the way, we don't know how the insurrection ended

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Speaker 5: yet because it's it's not over.

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Speaker 4: They'll part in all of them on day one of

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Speaker 4: his staship.

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Speaker 5: So it gets a race from history as it practically

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Speaker 5: has been.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there are all sorts of things that have

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Speaker 5: been shown not to be to durance, and he had

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Speaker 5: the opportunity, because of the failures of the system, to

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Speaker 5: activate even more people, to get them even more angry

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Speaker 5: and feel more agreed that I don't think.

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Speaker 7: So.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's like the same reason people smoke. I'm

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Speaker 5: not going to be the one that gets sick. People

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Speaker 5: have ways of convincing themselves that their cause is so

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Speaker 5: righteous or you know, the pleasure they get out of

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Speaker 5: the activity is so worth it that the consequences don't

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Speaker 5: even enter into their consciousness. So we're talking about a

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Speaker 5: situation in which if he loses, and especially if the

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Speaker 5: the electoral colleges margin is very narrow in Biden state, Bor,

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Speaker 5: do we really think people are going to say, well,

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Speaker 5: you know, the four years ago people get with now

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Speaker 5: they're going to be so trigger intentional and trigger or

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Speaker 5: activated or whatever the word you want to use. I

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Speaker 5: don't actually think that the rational consideration of consequences is going.

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Speaker 3: To come into play for anybody.

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Speaker 2: And that's really scary. Mary Trump. I hope my job back.

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Speaker 1: I also think you're probably right now that I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to you, I think you're probably right. Nick Corruscinity is

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Speaker 1: a reporter of The New York Times covering voting and democracy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome too Fast.

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Speaker 7: Politics, Nick, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: It feels like you've been doing the voter beat a

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Speaker 1: little bit. We want to talk to you about Trump's

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Speaker 1: allies ramp up campaign targeting voter rolls.

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Speaker 2: That's unscary. What does that mean?

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Speaker 6: So what this is is kind of like a continuation

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Speaker 6: and escalation of what's become a kind of common tact

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Speaker 6: among a lot of right wing activists and volunteers and

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Speaker 6: some leaders to try and.

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Speaker 7: In their minds, clean the voter roles.

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Speaker 6: But what they're actually doing is combing through voter roles

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Speaker 6: using their own kind of software that they've developed, and

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Speaker 6: trying to identify voters that they think are erroneously on

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Speaker 6: the roles and challenge them to get them kicked off

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Speaker 6: the roles. Now, they're doing this through a bunch of

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Speaker 6: different methods, and a few that we've uncumbered are are

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Speaker 6: pretty aggressive and might even have like either created a

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Speaker 6: loophole or an actual conflict between state law and federal

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Speaker 6: law kind of protecting voters from being removed from any

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Speaker 6: kind of voting roles, either quickly or without due process.

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Speaker 2: I want you to just.

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Speaker 1: Talk us through where this is happening and what it

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Speaker 1: looked like for my dad, who is actually quite smart,

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Speaker 1: but who might not be completely read in on this.

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Speaker 6: Sure, so this is happening state by state, and because

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Speaker 6: our electoral system in every state, I can't say that

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Speaker 6: for sure, because, as I was just about to say,

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Speaker 6: the United States electoral systems so decentralized. It runs their

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Speaker 6: own elections, and in some states they just punt it

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Speaker 6: down to counties, and in some states they even punted

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Speaker 6: down to municipalities. So in Michigan, for example, there is

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Speaker 6: state law, but they're really run by sixteen hundred you know,

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Speaker 6: local election offices at the municipal level. So it's really

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Speaker 6: hard to get a national grasp of how wide this

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Speaker 6: challenge effort is and you know, kind of exactly how

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Speaker 6: aggressive they're going all over the country. Now, we've identified

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Speaker 6: some areas. We kind of focused on battleground states because

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Speaker 6: that's where you know, this can maybe have a bigger

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Speaker 6: impact than twenty twenty four. In almost every battleground state

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Speaker 6: there are activists seeking to challenge voters and get them

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Speaker 6: removed from the roles, often before the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: Trump world knows that this is not a game of

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Speaker 1: the popular vote.

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Speaker 2: This is a game of the swing states.

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Speaker 1: But what this would look like is you go in

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Speaker 1: to vote and you're you're not on the rolls anymore.

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Speaker 7: That would be the kind of worst case scenario that

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Speaker 7: could happen.

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Speaker 6: And you know, we've iified a few voters who were

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Speaker 6: removed from the roles and were kind of unaware of

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Speaker 6: it until they were either notified by like activists on

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Speaker 6: the other side, or you know, journalists found problems presented

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Speaker 6: them to election officials and they had.

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Speaker 7: To redo what it done.

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Speaker 6: But the worst case scenario would be, yes, that you

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Speaker 6: show up to vote and your registration has either been

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Speaker 6: canceled or is in a challenged phase where you would

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Speaker 6: need to present more than sick, just like a simple

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Speaker 6: identification to prove that you are indeed registered to vote,

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Speaker 6: live in that jurisdiction and things like that.

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Speaker 1: What would be the argument that Trump's people are using

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Speaker 1: to de register them?

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Speaker 7: Basically so it does vary state to state.

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Speaker 6: And these are you know, a very loose network of activists,

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Speaker 6: some you know with kind of more direct ties to

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Speaker 6: say that the Trump orbit, like Cleida Mitchell, you know

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Speaker 6: who was a lawyer in him in twenty twenty to

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Speaker 6: return the results?

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Speaker 2: Where is Cleita working?

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Speaker 6: Clida has a very loose national umbrella organization and challenge

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Speaker 6: just has been you know, one of her main pushes.

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Speaker 6: She argues that, you know, voter roles are dirty and

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Speaker 6: they need to be cleaned up, and no one is

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Speaker 6: being disenfranchised if anything, allowing roles to stay quote unquote

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Speaker 6: dirty is diluting the votes of legal voters. A common

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Speaker 6: argument you hear on the on the conservative side.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a lie though, because we know that

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Speaker 1: there aren't illegal and legal voters.

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Speaker 2: If you're registered to vote, you are allegal voter.

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Speaker 6: What I feel like needs to be said every time,

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Speaker 6: but you know, sometimes we operate as if it's just

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Speaker 6: an understood thing is that voter of fraud in the

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Speaker 6: United States is exceedingly exceedingly rare. Yes, you know, maybe

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Speaker 6: dozens or like, you know, in the low hundreds number

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Speaker 6: of fraud or fraudulent registration or anything like that every cycle.

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Speaker 6: So it's a little bit that happens, but nothing that

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Speaker 6: ever comes close to any kind of margin, especially you

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Speaker 6: know what far President Trump says, like in the hundreds

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Speaker 6: of thousands or tens of thousands. That's right, never happens.

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Speaker 6: Bulshit never happened in American history, and you know kind

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Speaker 6: of can't given all of the systems we have in

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Speaker 6: place to check for that. What allow of these acts

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Speaker 6: are doing is seizing on either state laws or procedures

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Speaker 6: and trying to go a little bit further than say,

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Speaker 6: the average voteral clean up process would go. So for example,

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Speaker 6: in Michigan, activists found a law from nineteen fifty four

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Speaker 6: that has been kind of rarely used and referenced. And

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Speaker 6: what with this law says is that any elector in

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Speaker 6: the state can challenge another elector singular with a like

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Speaker 6: affid davit or official attestation that they know that that

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Speaker 6: elector doesn't live here anymore, and that starts a process

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Speaker 6: that you know, sends out a card to the voter

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Speaker 6: to check and if they don't respond within thirty days,

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Speaker 6: they get removed from the roles.

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Speaker 1: So this is like using the Comstock Act to stop

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Speaker 1: people from getting the abortion pill in the mail, right Like,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't originally made for this, it's just Republicans have

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Speaker 1: tried to figure out a way to use it.

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Speaker 6: I think it's a little different than the Comsak Act

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Speaker 6: because that is certainly like kind of two different areas.

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Speaker 6: This is a law from nineteen fifty four that is

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Speaker 6: indeed designed to kind of help keep voter rolls clean,

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Speaker 6: but it was never designed to be a mass challenge tool,

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Speaker 6: which is, you know, kind of what has happened in

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Speaker 6: the post twenty twenty election is these activists aren't challenging

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Speaker 6: a couple voters here or there. They're challenging hundreds or

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Speaker 6: thousands or in Georgia tens of thousands. This was never

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Speaker 6: designed for that. Also, it was designed to kind of

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Speaker 6: help stop like a lot of mail going to the

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Speaker 6: wrong place, and you know, in the fifties when that

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Speaker 6: was a popular way of campaigning, it was designed to

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Speaker 6: kind of each the burden of campaigning on residents. So

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Speaker 6: it certainly wasn't lying to have this mass removal effect

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Speaker 6: that also, you know, it was passing fifty four. But

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Speaker 6: it is kind of in direct conflict with the NVRA,

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Speaker 6: which is a national law that says, you know, if

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Speaker 6: a voter is challenged in there, you know, to be

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Speaker 6: removed from the roles, you need two federal election cycles

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Speaker 6: to go through before they're officially removed. So this sets

441
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 6: up a conflict where election officials are told by these activists,

442
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 6: you'd have to remove these people in thirty days.

443
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 7: You have to follow the law. It's the law.

444
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 6: If not, you know, we'll raise official complaints. But then

445
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 6: they're also you know, remembering training that will wait the

446
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 6: national you know, the NBRA says no, it's two federal

447
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 6: election cycles. So it's that level of detail that I

448
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 6: think we're seeing is evidence of this expansion and this

449
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 6: kind of accelerated effort to try and challenge voters and

450
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 6: remove them from the roles in these in these key

451
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 6: battleground states.

452
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: So are there people on the like on the left

453
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 1: making sure this doesn't happen or is it just going

454
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: along unchecked?

455
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 6: Well, I think a lot of election officials are starting

456
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 6: to catch up to this. You know, when you look

457
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 6: at different states, there's different levels of preparedness. So Michigan

458
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 6: is kind of perceiving this first big wave right now

459
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 6: that you know wasn't as prevalent, say in the mid terms,

460
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 6: Whereas in Georgia in the Senate runoff elections in twenty

461
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 6: twenty one, you know, kind of immediately following the point

462
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 6: twenty election that their election day was January sixth, there

463
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 6: was three hundred and sixty thousand challenges to voters just

464
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 6: in that small runoff window.

465
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 7: Wow. In Georgia.

466
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they thought that would help them when you

467
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: don't have to editorialize, I well continue.

468
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 6: There's actually email evidence showing that they did. Inde'd think

469
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 6: if you did these challenges and clean these roles, it

470
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 6: would have helped at least Trump make up his deficit

471
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 6: in the trial between fair Fight and True The vote

472
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 6: that email was brought into evidence. But so Georgia County

473
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 6: election officials are very very very well versed in the

474
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 6: challenge law and the challenge preparations, so they're you know,

475
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 6: doing their best to make sure no one is erroneously removed.

476
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 6: As for like organizations on the left, who are you know,

477
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 6: seeking to either rate these wrongs or anything.

478
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 7: There's certainly some.

479
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 6: I'm sure I haven't been necessarily focused on them in

480
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 6: my reporting, but there's voting rights groups in every state.

481
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 6: There's you know, fair fight in Georgia, the CLU that

482
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 6: you know are looking to prevent this spot. I'm not

483
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 6: as aware as to their operations or measures at the

484
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 6: state level.

485
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 2: So crazy.

486
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: Speaking of voting, there is a Democratic primary in New

487
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: Jersey for the Senate, and you have a really important

488
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: piece about this and basically, and again, as a beneficiary

489
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: of nepotism myself, I always.

490
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: Am hesitant to call it bad.

491
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: No, I'm just kidding, it's bad talk to me about

492
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: these ballots.

493
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 6: So what's unique in New Jersey is in the primary

494
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 6: system they have a thing called the line. And what

495
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 6: that is is it's a specific column or row on

496
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 6: a physical ballot in each county where a candidate is

497
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 6: given preferential treatment. So if you in the line and

498
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 6: say Hudson County for the Democrats, you appear with all

499
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 6: the other Democrats from county freeholder to senator, all in

500
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 6: one line. That gives the impression that these are the

501
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 6: official Democratic candidates. And then other candidates can be all

502
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 6: over the place. Some are put in what's known as

503
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 6: ballot Siberia, which is, you know, four to ten columns

504
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 6: over and you wouldn't even know if unless we're looking

505
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 6: for them. So it's this system that creates an appearance

506
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 6: of an official endorsement that if you're a Democratic voter,

507
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 6: these are the people you should look for, and that's

508
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 6: on the physical ballot. Now, how the line is one

509
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 6: varies from county to county, but often in a lot

510
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 6: of situations, the county party chair carries immense influence over

511
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 6: the line endorsement. In some it's just the county chair

512
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 6: and a few others. In some it's this committee and

513
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 6: others their endorsement helps guide the precinct delegates who are

514
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 6: going to vote for this, and then in others it

515
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 6: truly is an open convention. What's really unique about this

516
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 6: already unique system in New Jersey is that this year

517
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 6: Danny Murphy, the first lady, is running for a Senate

518
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 6: and seeking the line in different counties, while her husband,

519
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 6: Governor Murphy, is still the sitting governor and will be

520
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 6: next year, so he's in charge of the next two

521
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 6: budgets for New Jersey. Now, each of these county chairs

522
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 6: in their personal lives has some business tied to the

523
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 6: state summer lobbyists, some are lawyers, some have state government

524
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 6: positions and are drawing state government paychecks. So regardless of

525
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 6: necessarily you know how they're going to step back and

526
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 6: view the race between Ammy Murphy and Andy kim is,

527
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 6: the other most prominent candidate running, They're going to have

528
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 6: their own financial interest in the back of their head.

529
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 6: So we saw very quickly as soon as Tammy Murphy announced,

530
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 6: all of these powerful county chairs fall in line and

531
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 6: immediately endoor service. Within I think a week, most of

532
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 6: the major population centers fell, and that bothered a lot

533
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 6: of Democratic base bullers in New Jersey who saw it

534
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 6: as either a coronation or an anointing, or kind of

535
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 6: moving beyond the simple, open primary process that you know

536
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 6: they claim to support. So as evidence, I think of

537
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 6: how angry some of these voters are at the open conventions.

538
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 6: Andy Kim, who was considered an underdog to Tammy Murphy,

539
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 6: has been winning most of these open conventions, including one

540
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 6: in Mommut which kind of set the pace for exactly

541
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 6: how this primary is starting to play out. So it's

542
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 6: this weird system in New Jersey that's always had a

543
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 6: little bit to a lot of insider powers, smoke filled

544
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 6: back rooms, back dealing, that this year was so much

545
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 6: more at the forefront simply due to the dynamics of

546
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 6: the first lady running while the sitting governor is still

547
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 6: in office and will be in office next year.

548
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: That is crazy.

549
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: And really the ballot staff is really unusual, Like there

550
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: are forty nine other states and nobody else has.

551
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 7: That as far as I know, That's.

552
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: What Andy told us. Yeah, it could be wrong.

553
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 6: It would shock me because I mean, granted, I'm from

554
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 6: New Jersey and a proud, proud and loud New Jersey

555
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 6: and but I've you know, written a couple articles about

556
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 6: this over the past five years and have never heard

557
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: anyone else say, oh, this is how we do it.

558
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: You know it.

559
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 6: Certainly maybe they did years ago it certainly has, you know,

560
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 6: those relics of political machines, and New Jersey is one

561
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 6: of the few states where, like political machines really do

562
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 6: still matter. About six or seven years ago, George north

563
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 6: Cross was at the height of his power as this

564
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 6: unelected but powerful insurance broker from South Jersey who really

565
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 6: commanded the entire South Jersey delegation and could you know,

566
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 6: force ben governors to as will both Murphy and former

567
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 6: Governor Chris Christy. Now there's you know, the hundred in

568
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 6: county politically machine, that's the most popular county populist, so

569
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 6: they move or as most Democratic voters, so they can

570
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 6: move a lot. So New Jersey still is very much

571
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 6: a political machine state, whereas in other states we've seen

572
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 6: machines completely crumble and fall.

573
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 7: Just you know, looking at AOC's.

574
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 6: Election that was actually a long time, which it feels

575
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 6: it's like a few years ago.

576
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: I want to get to a PC. He wrote.

577
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: Pretty recently, racial turnout gap has widened with a Weekend

578
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act. So in twenty thirteen, the Supreme Court

579
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: Justice Roberts Weekend that some of these protections were no

580
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: longer necessary and surprise, surprise, what happened.

581
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 7: Well, what's kind of always been presumed is that when

582
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 7: you've removed the kind of the most critical part of

583
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 7: the Voting Rights Act, that it would have negative impact

584
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 7: on communities of color and turn out among voters of color.

585
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 7: But up until this Brennan study that you know, was

586
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 7: completed a few weeks ago, those attempts at kind of

587
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 7: quantifying this possible change was left to either exit polling,

588
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 7: or opinion surveys or the census, all of which are

589
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 7: like a little bit more imperfect than what Brennan decided

590
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 7: to do, which was take about a billion voter files

591
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 7: from multiple elections since twenty thirteen and assess exactly what

592
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 7: has happened in all the counties and states that were

593
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 7: covered by this part of the Voting Rights Act that

594
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 7: was changed in twenty thirteen. And what they found was that,

595
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 7: you know, it was a five percent difference that had

596
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 7: the Shelby decision not happened, the racial gap in these

597
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 7: counties and states would have been five percent lower than

598
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 7: it is right now. And five percent is a significant

599
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 7: margin in modern elections. I mean, so many as swing

600
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 7: states you know, are within two to three in some

601
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 7: of these counties that were. You know, under section five

602
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 7: are massive counties.

603
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 6: Harris County, you know, in Texas is bigger than I

604
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 6: think twenty three states in terms of population.

605
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 7: That's home to Houston.

606
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 6: What they found was, you know, kind of a statistical

607
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 6: proof that the Shelby County decision did indeed exacerbate the

608
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 6: racial turnout gap, and that it beyond other like qualifiers

609
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 6: that people have often sought. So it persists across class, income,

610
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 6: education lines, even in poorer communities. While turnout was down

611
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 6: amongst poorer computer communities, across the line, there was still

612
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 6: a greater racial gap. You know, poorer white voters still

613
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 6: voted at a greater turnout than poorer voters of color.

614
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 6: At the very wealthy, wealthier white voters still voted at

615
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 6: a higher rate than voters of color. And they found

616
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 6: this racial turnout gap growing nationwide over the past ten

617
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 6: years since the twenty twelve election, but it grew at

618
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 6: a faster rate in these former Shelby counties.

619
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: It's not surprising, but it's still upsetting. Do you think

620
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: that enough attention is being paid to this voter role?

621
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 6: Staff, It's tough for me to say, you know, where

622
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 6: people should be focusing their attention. I do think election

623
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 6: officials are becoming, you know, more familiar with the challenges,

624
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 6: with the rules and regulations that are guiding what should

625
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 6: be done to keep voters on the rolls or not.

626
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 6: I do think probably the biggest challenge to this challenge program,

627
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 6: like repeating myself, is that these election officials are still

628
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 6: overworked and underfunded. In the I forget if it was

629
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 6: the budget or another recent funding bill or whatever a

630
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 6: fiscal cliff we decided to near or shut down over

631
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 6: there was money, you know, that was supposed to be

632
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 6: given to run the twenty twenty four election, and that

633
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 6: kept getting whittled down to nowhere near what the request was.

634
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 6: And so even with have A funds and the other

635
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 6: federal money that's came to elections, it's just simply not enough.

636
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 6: And there's been you know, new laws that he about

637
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 6: other forms of funding elections outside funding of elections. So

638
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 6: these local officials are really kind of, you know, between

639
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 6: a rock and a hard place. And so when you

640
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 6: layer in all of this extra work of sifting through

641
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 6: these challenges making sure you're both protecting everyone's right to

642
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 6: vote while at the same time not you know, erroneously

643
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 6: keeping someone who shouldn't be on the rolls on the rolls.

644
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 6: It's a massive effort. And so while they're having to

645
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 6: do this, they're still having to make sure polling locations

646
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 6: are open in the right place, make sure that they're

647
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 6: doing the right testing of the machines, making sure that

648
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 6: like voting locations have the right power to power the machines,

649
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 6: like we saw that in the Georgia primary in twenty twenty. So,

650
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 6: you know, there's so much that goes into this, and

651
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 6: there's so much of these election fishals that to do,

652
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 6: and often they're volunteers or they're part time, and so

653
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 6: to layer on all of these challenges I think is

654
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 6: something that there hasn't been the proper kind of relief,

655
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 6: either adding help to them or financial help to them.

656
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 6: That I think is kind of where the biggest gap

657
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 6: is at the moment.

658
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us.

659
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me.

660
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: Frank McCord is the founder of Project Liberty and author

661
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: of Our Biggest Fight, Reclaiming Liberty, Humanity.

662
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: And Dignity in the Digital Age. Welcome to Fast Politics, Frank.

663
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Well Wall, it's great to be with you. Looking forward

664
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: to the conversation.

665
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: Explain to us, how you got to this idea.

666
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: Like you and millions of others, I see and feel

667
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: what's wrong, and it's something's wrong right, something's big as

668
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: a myths, and so I get curious about that and

669
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: started to dig into it. And that's where I, you know,

670
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: came to the conclusion that all these things that you know,

671
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 3: we find creepy and all the harms that we see

672
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: being done or many of them, can be linked back

673
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: to how technology is currently being used, and how the

674
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 3: Internet has been almost hijacked right by a few big companies.

675
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: And I, you know, I say that should mention that

676
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 3: I'm a fifth generation builder and my family's been building

677
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: the infrastructure for over one hundred and thirty years and

678
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 3: a great great grandfather started building roads when Henry Ford

679
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: started building cars. So it's kind of hardwired. We look

680
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: at problems and you know, try to figure out what's

681
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: strong and go fix it. I brought that mentality, let's say,

682
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 3: to this problem. But I'll tell you one anecdote that

683
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: really stuck with me. And this was after I had

684
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: started a public policy school with Georgetown University in Washington,

685
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: d C. And you know, that was at twenty thirteen

686
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: and we knew that big data was important, and we

687
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 3: put a massive data institute inside of the Court School,

688
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: and a faculty member there who was doing great research

689
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: it told me the following story. She had a theory

690
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 3: that you could predict when a large scale human migration

691
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: was going to occur by seeing what words got amplified

692
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: on social media. And she developed this theory based on

693
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: what she was able to pull together on your publicly

694
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: available social media. Our government was quite interested in that

695
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 3: project and gave her two hundred thousand dollars to refine

696
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: her model, because if there was in fact a predictor

697
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 3: of large scale migration, that would be massively helpful to

698
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: humanitarian organizations a society more broadly. So, yeah, she got

699
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: a couple hundred thousand to do the project, and new

700
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 3: Twyter had the information she needed and went to them

701
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 3: to get the data and they said, yep, we have it,

702
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: but it will cost you one hundred thousand dollars.

703
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

704
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 3: And she said, I can't give you a hundred thousand

705
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 3: dollars because I could get the data, I won't be

706
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: able to do the project because I don't have the budget.

707
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: And they said, well, you can't have it then, So

708
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: that really said a lot to me. Moly, because you

709
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: have the most vulnerable people in the world who created

710
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 3: the data. Right. It was their conversations that this academic

711
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: who was not going to commercialize this, just wanted to

712
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: improve the lot of society, help these four souls. And

713
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: they have Twitter, who's sitting on this data and saying

714
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 3: it's it's mine, you can't have it unless you pay me.

715
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: And I just felt the entire Internet was upside down.

716
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 3: It's our data. We should own it and control it.

717
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: If we want to use it for a good purpose,

718
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: we should be able to do that, and we shouldn't

719
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 3: be help hostage by big platforms. And by the way,

720
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: they are making massive amounts of money.

721
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: So run our data.

722
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, from our data, So let's share on that as well.

723
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 3: The value.

724
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: It's such an interesting solve. I'm hoping you could sort

725
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: of talk us through. The idea is actually quite complicated,

726
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: or at least it's complicated to someone like me who

727
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: knows many things very superficially. But I'm hoping you could

728
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: sort of explain to us this idea because if it

729
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: were to exist, it would be a decentralized internet, right, Yeah.

730
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: Well, it would be decentralized to the extent that we'd

731
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 3: be in control, right, and we'd don't to control our data,

732
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 3: and we'd have visibility and how it's baking used, and

733
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: we'd be able to share the value. But you know,

734
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 3: the Internet was built as a decentralized technology. That's why

735
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 3: it was built. You know, it was built too so

736
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: that we had a decentralized form of communication and the

737
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: effect of attack way back from the Soviet Union. And

738
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 3: then it evolved into the World Wide Web, and that,

739
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: by the way, was thirty five years ago today. Tim

740
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: burgers Ley released Stage GTP into the world and the

741
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 3: World Wide Web was created. And you know, I've talked

742
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 3: to him extensively about this, and his intention was that

743
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: it be a decentralized, human centric, empowering Internet, one that

744
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 3: would be the proverbial tide that less solve boats, right,

745
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 3: something where we could share information and get smarter as

746
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 3: a society, and not something that it became fifteen years later,

747
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: and especially over the last ten years, which has been

748
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: highly centralized, autocratic, surveillance based, app based internet. The apps

749
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 3: have taken ownership of they'd hijack the Internet. So you

750
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 3: know what I say in my book, our biggest fight

751
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: which comes out today is that we're back where we

752
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: were when in a way, when Thomas Paine in seventeen

753
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: seventy five wrote Common Sense, that powerful call to arms,

754
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: you know, the pamphlet that he wrote before the United

755
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: States became the United States, and he said to his

756
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 3: fellow settlers at the time, you have a choice. You

757
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: could continue to be a subject of a monarch and

758
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: not have any rights to speak of or be able

759
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 3: to own anything, or you could choose to be a citizen,

760
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 3: and with that comes all kinds of rights, including you know,

761
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: you're born with you know what became known as unalienable rights,

762
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: the rights that you're bo the same rights the king has.

763
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 3: And you're a human being of worth, and you have freedom,

764
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: you have liberty, you have choice, autonomy, agency, and you

765
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: can own things and create value. And that happily we

766
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: chowse citizenship and we created this country. And I would

767
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 3: argue that we, as you say, we can make this

768
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: complicated if we want through it. I actually think it's

769
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 3: pretty simple. Now we're at another juncture. We have a choice.

770
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: We can be dragged into a future, buy machines and

771
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 3: be subjects again and lose our citizenship, or we could

772
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 3: create technology that actually allows us and celebrates the fact

773
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 3: that we are now digital citizens. We're being treated like subjects,

774
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: we're losing our rights, and we're not treated at all

775
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: like human beings on the current Internet. And so I

776
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: asked the question, why, pretel, would we give up all

777
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 3: of our rights for the ability to use the Internet.

778
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: It makes no sense.

779
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: Right, at one time it was not thought of as

780
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: giving up all of our rights, but now in hindsight,

781
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: that was what we were all doing. So what I

782
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: think is cool about this idea is that you are

783
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: doing this as an act of philanthropy. Right, you were

784
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: not making money on this idea. You're really trying to

785
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: sort of go in and make something that is really wrong.

786
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 2: Right.

787
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: If Congress wanted to, they could do this right now, right,

788
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: I mean, when that solved many of our technological problems.

789
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: If they said, like, no, we're going to have this

790
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: decentralized internet. Everyone needs to be a real person, no

791
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: more bot forms.

792
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: Like if you have.

793
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: To have a birth certificate or a driver's license or

794
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: a passport, you have to have a digital identity. I mean,

795
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: there's a world where that happens.

796
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: Right, there's a world where that happens, but it's obviously

797
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 3: not going to happen in the world we live in

798
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: because our politics is also become highly polarized and dysfunctional

799
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: because of the same technology that I'm referring to that

800
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 3: is designed to polarize us and separate us. It's not

801
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 3: designed to help us reach consensus. They reaching consensus is

802
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: no fund for an algorithm that's designed to keep you

803
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: online endlessly and in a triggered state constantly, you know,

804
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: responding to something someone says. So let's go back to

805
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 3: your premise. Though DS and P is an open source protocol,

806
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 3: then our labs team developed that would allow people to

807
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: own and control their data, as you say, have a

808
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 3: digital entity, and let all of us benefit from the

809
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: network effect of the Internet. Open source, it's been gifted

810
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: to humanity. People need to build on this molly for

811
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 3: it to be a real thing, and so there will

812
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: be lots of commercial endeavors that people will engage in

813
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 3: our rotam will probably engage some things that they build

814
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 3: on this protocol because without it, there's not going to

815
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: be a real alternative to the current Internet. So, but

816
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: the point is it needs to be built on by

817
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 3: millions of people. This is not you know, one person,

818
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 3: one family, one company project. It's never going to happen.

819
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: This is a collective action and we need to demand

820
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: it better.

821
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 7: A better intet.

822
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: Now, if the government wanted to say, hey, everybody needs

823
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 3: to adopt a protocol like DSNP, then that would help

824
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: move things along. We don't need the government to mandate

825
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 3: it is the point.

826
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: Right, But if they did, it would be solved tomorrow.

827
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: It would be accelerated, sure, and then suddenly you'd be

828
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 3: in a situation where we adopted other standards. Right, We

829
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 3: adopted other protocols, and what we didn't know when we

830
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 3: were adopting them is that we were giving power to

831
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: a few big platforms to own us. And I don't

832
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: want to be owned by someone else, whether it's the

833
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: Chinese government because of you know, TikTok, or whether it's

834
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 3: the you know, a few big American platforms. We need

835
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: to put human beings in charge of themselves on the

836
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: Internet for the first time.

837
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: Right.

838
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 3: We need to stop being an IP address, a device,

839
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 3: or stop just being viewed as data, as a as

840
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 3: a product. We're human beings. It's a privilege to use

841
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: the Internet, and we should be required to be a

842
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 3: person or at least verified as such to be on

843
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: the Internet. That doesn't mean we have to give up

844
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 3: our privacy or anything like that. We should be able

845
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 3: to live on the Internet like we lived prior to that,

846
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: where if you're dealing with a community that you know

847
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: and trust, well, you share a lot of details about yourself. Well,

848
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 3: if you're dealing with strangers, you don't share anything about yourself.

849
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: You or I don't share things about ourselves when we

850
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 3: walk down a city street to a stranger, at least

851
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 3: most people don't. But then when you get to know people,

852
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 3: you share more. And then we have close friends and

853
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 3: significant others and family members, you share a lot. Well,

854
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 3: the Internet should operate in a similar way where we

855
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 3: have control over what's shared about us, with whom and

856
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 3: on what terms.

857
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 1: So right now we're in the middle of a news

858
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: cycle about TikTok where it looked for a minute like

859
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: TikTok was going to be either forced as a sale

860
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: or banded, and there was like an incredible amount of movement,

861
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: and now it looks like that's not happening because Kelly

862
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: and Conway is a lobbyist for TikTok and Trump. Some

863
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: people got to Trump, And so I'm just curious, is

864
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: that the problem with tech regulation?

865
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: This is like an obsession of mine.

866
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: For example, you know, they're always congressional here things about

867
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: tech regulation. We're constantly seeing that, but we're not actually

868
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: seeing any regulation come out of any of this. I mean,

869
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: we have seen so much like carnage from technology. A

870
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: lot of great stuff too, but a lot of carnage.

871
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: It seems like our Congress and our politicians just seem

872
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: completely uninterested in providing any kind of regulation.

873
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you said, you know, this carnage and there's

874
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 3: a lot of harm, but this good stuff being done too,

875
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: I actually share myself kind of saying that from time

876
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 3: to time, and I hear others saying that, like it's

877
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: almost like we're defense mechanism or this obligation to say, well, well,

878
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 3: there's some good stuff too. And I've come to the conclusion,

879
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 3: if we get our construction company right, or some municipality

880
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: or or somebody built a plumbing system, a water system

881
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: for a city of a million people, and we turned

882
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: on the water, or people turned on the water in

883
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: their homes and six hundred thousand people got clean, healthy,

884
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: nutritional water, and four hundred thousand people got toxic poison

885
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: water that was causing illnesses and even some people to die.

886
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 3: Would we be saying, oh, but the water system that

887
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 3: that water system does some good stuff too, or would

888
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: we be focusing on the damage that's done and be

889
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 3: saying fix that. That's unacceptable. So I just want to

890
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 3: put this in context that I think if they stop

891
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 3: being apologetic, oh yeah, but they do some good things too,

892
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 3: and just say enough is enough Number one, number two

893
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 3: on your issue of policy and so forth. We now

894
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 3: know and we learn more and more every day about

895
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 3: the damage being done by the way the Internet is

896
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,959
Speaker 3: being used, and you know this surveillance technology, the harms democracy,

897
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: our information ecosystem is being contaminated, trouble, civil discourse is

898
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: police officers at school board meetings, and most importantly we

899
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: see the harms to young people right, and they're very real.

900
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: The first stop should be to go to these big

901
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: tech platforms and say, look at there's damage being done.

902
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 7: Fix it.

903
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: Stop causing the damage, right, stop putting the water into

904
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 3: the pipe, stop fix this. And that hasn't been done.

905
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 3: And what we get is these apology tours and oh

906
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 3: I didn't know that, go back and check and fix it.

907
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 3: But then information comes out, and of course we now

908
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 3: learned they knew it. You know that Mark Zuckerberg knew

909
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: that the technology was designed to prey on young kids,

910
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 3: and so on and so forth, and yet it's still

911
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 3: not So then where do we turn. We turned to

912
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 3: our elected officials and our political system, right like we

913
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: did with tobaccos for instance, right, Well, we found out

914
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 3: it was harmful and the tobacco companies didn't fix it.

915
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: We went to our elected officials and said, please, we

916
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: need new regulations because they're not fixing it themselves. And

917
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: then those regulations came into place. There were warnings on cartoons,

918
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: there was a tax put on it so that there

919
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: was more expensive, so people would file us and people

920
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 3: were it was an educational campaign, and there were regulations

921
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 3: at laws, and you couldn't smoke under a certain so

922
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 3: on and so for you couldn't sell to a certain

923
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 3: and our political appbretes went into here. So now let's

924
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 3: come back to technology. We go to our political apparatus

925
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 3: and say, big tech, and is it in these social

926
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: media platforms? Aren't fixing themselves, please fix the problem. And

927
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 3: like you say, we see the theater, we see the hearings,

928
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: but nothing happens. I've come to the conclusion that either

929
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: our political elected officials are not understanding the technology and

930
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: the harm it's doing, or they are taking money from

931
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: these big platforms that are the wealthiest companies ever created

932
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 3: and have lobbyists and advocates all over the place, or

933
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 3: they're actually and this may be the most damaging evolve,

934
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 3: they're using the very platforms that we're talking about here

935
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: that are doing the damage and causing the polarization to

936
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 3: raise money and take extreme views and get followers and

937
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: clicks and donations. And so it's the ultimate irony here

938
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: or sad irony, is that what I talk about in

939
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 3: our biggest fight that we need to fix is very

940
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: technology that is disabling our political apparatus as well and

941
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: our ability to adopt good policies, which used to happen

942
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: years ago, and it's not happening now because of the

943
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 3: all powerful nature of this technology. So that's where I

944
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 3: come to the Project Liberty and the need for us

945
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: to actually take matters into our own hands, actually diagnose

946
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: the engineering problem, fix it. And then have a call

947
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: to action to demand that we have this alternative and

948
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: incentivize builders to build on it and get citizens just

949
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 3: people demanding the alternative. And I want to see people

950
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 3: talking about this at their kitchen table, at the sidelines

951
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 3: of the soccer kids soccer game, at their school board meetings,

952
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 3: you know, after church and so on and so forth,

953
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: so that we start to socialize this because we the

954
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: people need to fix this, because the platforms themselves aren't

955
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 3: fixing it in our elected officials.

956
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Thank you so much, Frank Well, I appreciate

957
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: you saying that.

958
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 3: I just ask that your listeners, you know, take a

959
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 3: couple of hours and read our Biggest Fight and because

960
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 3: it's it's hard and twenty minutes to get everything across,

961
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 3: but you know, the book that I had the privilege

962
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 3: of writing with Michael Casey, I think does a decent

963
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 3: job of explaining the problem and the solution so we

964
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: don't have to be helpless and hopeless. Here there is

965
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: hope and there is a bright future. And we're definitely

966
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: pro technology. It's not about being anti tech. We're definitely

967
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: pro tech, but use it the right way. Or your

968
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 3: listeners can go to our biggest fight dot com and

969
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: learn much more about the project. Thank you, Thank you,

970
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 3: Mollie a.

971
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: Moment, pet Jesse Cannon, Molly Jung Fast, Robert hur takes

972
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,959
Speaker 2: the stand in Congress today, and oh and.

973
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: He reveals himself to be the partisan hack we had

974
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: suspected he was.

975
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: There were a lot of moments to choose from.

976
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: I say, just play the whole hearing at the DNC,

977
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: but if you're pressed for time, definitely there were so

978
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: many moments. The best and the worst was him. So

979
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: Ted Lew asked Robert her her questions that were purportedly

980
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: about Biden but really about Trump. That was a pretty

981
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,320
Speaker 1: amazing moment, just in a very typical Republican fashion. Before

982
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: the report came out, her you know, sort of got

983
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: ahead of it and said that at points Biden couldn't

984
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: remember the day that bo died, which is actually just

985
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: a lie because when you look at the transcript, he

986
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: knew exactly what the day was, and then he was

987
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: sort of trying to figure out it was twenty fifteen

988
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: or twenty sixteen, But Madeline Dean said he did know

989
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: the day, and her refuse to admit it went back

990
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: to the transcript and then ultimately just punted.

991
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: So I thought that was the moment.

992
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: But there were a lot of incredible moments in that hearing.

993
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: It's worth going over them, and it's really clear that

994
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: like the mainstream media fucked up right. They ran hers

995
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: comments just like they did when they used Bill Barr's

996
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: comments about the Mueller investigation instead of using the actual

997
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: Muther investigation.

998
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: They took Republican's word for it. They let them shape

999
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 2: the narrative.

1000
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: And we've seen this before, so we lived through weeks

1001
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: and weeks of Joe Biden didn't know when bo Biden.

1002
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 2: Died, when in fact, he knew exactly when Bo Biden died.

1003
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: And so for that partisan hack Robert HRR, who by

1004
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: the way, refused to answer a question when Eric Swowell

1005
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: asked him if he would take an appointment in Trump's

1006
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: White House, partisan hack, her is our moment of fuck ray.

1007
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1008
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

1009
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

1010
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

1011
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for a

1012
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: snag