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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, Welcome to Breaking Points. I'm Sager and Jetty kidding.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how many times I can use.

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Speaker 1: That joke, Crystal, I think it lands every time. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like our ritual part of the morning routine when

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Speaker 1: you're here. Nice to see you, by the way, Emily,

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Speaker 1: great to have you as always, girl.

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Speaker 5: Show Yes, always fun indeed, and we have a big show.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, there's a lot to get into this morning.

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Speaker 1: So apparently Obama is back. He's going to try to

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Speaker 1: rescue Biden. He's all in giving advice, et cetera. We'll

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Speaker 1: break that down a' so kareem jump here having an

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Speaker 1: inexplicable meltdown on a radio program that we will share

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Speaker 1: with you as well. The rn C has an interesting

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Speaker 1: new hiring process and the litmus test that you definitely.

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Speaker 6: Definitely want to know about that.

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Speaker 1: We had a big abortion oral arguments at Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: this week. This is with regard to that abortion pill

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Speaker 1: and whether it could be potentially banned nationwide. Seems like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the justices were very skeptical of the

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Speaker 1: arguments that were being made, so we'll break that down

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Speaker 1: for you. We also had, related to that, a special

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Speaker 1: election for a House district in Alabama. I know you're

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Speaker 1: on the edge of your seats to find out the results,

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Speaker 1: but it was noteworthy because Alabama, of course, was where

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Speaker 1: that court ruling on IVF came down, and the Democrat

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Speaker 1: ran really explicitly.

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Speaker 6: On that IVF ruling and she cleaned up like.

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Speaker 1: The margin is actually really shocking. So that's why it's

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Speaker 1: worth paying attention to. Also have some major media fails

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Speaker 1: with regard to Israel coverage that we want to bring

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Speaker 1: you both The Atlantic and The New York Times. We

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Speaker 1: have Joe Rogan coming out and saying Israel is committing

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Speaker 1: a genocide and what he even described as a mini holocaust.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of genocide, I'm taking a look at a UN

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Speaker 1: report arguing that there are reasonable grounds to believe Israel

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Speaker 1: is in fact committing a genocide. Of course, the author

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Speaker 1: of that report was immediately smeared by State Department spokesperson

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Speaker 1: Matt Miller as being you guessed it anti Semitic. And

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Speaker 1: we have Max Alvarez, who is both a Baltimore City

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Speaker 1: resident and also a fantastic reporter, taking a look at

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Speaker 1: the very latest we know with regard to that horrible

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Speaker 1: bridge collapse in that city.

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Speaker 5: Very eager to hear Maxi's thoughts.

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Speaker 4: Let's start with this outrageous Korean John Pierre meltdown in

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Speaker 4: North Carolina.

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Speaker 5: Now North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: Is where Joe Biden and Kamala Harris we're visiting on Tuesday.

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Speaker 5: Hence why karrein John.

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Speaker 6: Pierre, I didn't realize that actually.

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Speaker 4: She was on WBT local radio AM radio in North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: And this is per the Daily Beast. They describe it

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Speaker 4: like this, they say in the audio. John Pierre called

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Speaker 4: out WBT Charlotte news director Mark Garrison for quote incredibly

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Speaker 4: offensive end quote, insulting question about President Joe Biden's health.

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Speaker 5: During the phone interview earlier in the day.

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Speaker 4: I would add to that she also was offended that

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Speaker 4: he asked about people's grocery bills, and later ended the

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Speaker 4: chat by cordially thanking the interview first time and hanging up.

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Speaker 4: The White House contended in a statement to The Daily

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Speaker 4: Beast that John Pierre had offered the interview seven minutes

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Speaker 4: of her time sandwich between other interviews, and that the

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Speaker 4: station was well aware of the time constraints.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot to say about this. Let's roll the

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Speaker 5: tape first, though.

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Speaker 7: When I told a number of people that I was

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Speaker 7: talking to you today that it was interesting though, they

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Speaker 7: all said, would you please just ask her?

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Speaker 3: Does the president have dementia? So before I move on

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Speaker 3: from that, does he that?

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Speaker 7: Mark?

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Speaker 8: Mark? I can't even believe you're asking me this question.

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Speaker 8: That is an incredibly offensive question to ask.

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Speaker 3: But you know people ask you.

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Speaker 8: Wait, no, no, no, no, no, you Mark, you you're

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Speaker 8: taking us down as rabbit hole. Let me let me

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Speaker 8: let me be very clear about this.

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 8: For the past several years, the president's physician has laid

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Speaker 8: out very in a comprehensive way, the president's health. This

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Speaker 8: is a president if you watch him every day, if

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Speaker 8: you really pay attention to his record and what he

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Speaker 8: has done, you will see exactly how focus he's been

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Speaker 8: on the American people, how historic his actions have been.

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Speaker 8: And so I'm not even going to truly truly uh really,

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Speaker 8: you know, take take the premise of your question. I

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Speaker 8: think it is incredibly insulting, and so we can, you know,

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Speaker 8: we can move on to the next question.

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Speaker 4: So the next question was in fact about grocery prices,

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Speaker 4: and these are basically crystal and cares for your take

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Speaker 4: on this. The two issues that Normy voters actually really

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Speaker 4: are focused on with Joe Biden specifically, is are you okay?

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Speaker 4: And why can't I pay for my groceries in the

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Speaker 4: same way that I used to just a few years ago?

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Speaker 4: If they are incapable of having good answers to those questions,

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Speaker 4: and by the way, there are good answers to those

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Speaker 4: questions from a political perspective, from the perspective of strategy,

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Speaker 4: maybe not so much the first one, but you can

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Speaker 4: at least, you know, go full Paul Krugman talking about

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Speaker 4: grocery prices.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely good.

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Speaker 6: They have plenty of data they can point to.

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Speaker 1: Is it, you know, totally representative of how the American

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Speaker 1: people are feeling and doing?

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Speaker 6: No, but there are things they could point to.

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Speaker 1: It's not that hard, and the Daily Beasts character is

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Speaker 1: she cordially hung up the phone cordially okay.

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Speaker 4: After seven minutes, almost like they took the White House's

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Speaker 4: line that she only had seven minutes.

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Speaker 5: She was generous with her time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just she very huffily after she

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Speaker 1: gets asked the grocery question, just like you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like I gotta go, hangs.

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Speaker 5: Up the phone.

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Speaker 1: And if you do have look, i know she's a

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Speaker 1: busy lady. I'm sure she did have other things scheduled whatever.

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Speaker 1: There's an actually cordial way to handle that of like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can we do like one more question. I'm really sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm just you know, super slammed. And there's the not

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Speaker 1: cordial way of just literally hanging up the phone.

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Speaker 5: It's we're done.

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Speaker 6: Listen, if you don't want.

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Speaker 10: To get asked tough questions, don't take this job.

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Speaker 1: Your whole job is to take these questions. You're the

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Speaker 1: press secretary. It's crazy, and you have the thing like.

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Speaker 6: This is not out of line.

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Speaker 1: People have a right to ask that question because we

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Speaker 1: have seen this man had to give an entire press

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Speaker 1: conference to assure voters that he was like mentally there,

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Speaker 1: and then he went ahead and confused the president of

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Speaker 1: Egypt with President of Mexico in the very press conference,

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Speaker 1: in the very like I'm not Senile, I promise press conference.

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Speaker 1: Pull from February, eighty six percent of Americans think the

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Speaker 1: President Joe Biden is too old to serve another term.

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Speaker 1: So you can't get all snippy and offended when a

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Speaker 1: radio host asked you a question that is clearly on

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Speaker 1: the mind of some eighty six percent of Americans at least.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this is kind of a it's a

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Speaker 1: typical I would say democratic strategy, but I think strategy

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Speaker 1: in general with politician rather than actually trying to deal

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Speaker 1: with this, which how do you deal with the age

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Speaker 1: question in particular? They're you know, all you can say

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Speaker 1: is like the nonsense. She said, Oh, just watch him,

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Speaker 1: which that's the problem we have been watching against. That's

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Speaker 1: why we have the concerns. Okay, but that's really kind

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Speaker 1: of all you can do with it. And he's not

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Speaker 1: getting younger, so there's no real effective way to parry that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas with the economic stuff, you know, there's at least,

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Speaker 1: like I was saying, there's at least something there you

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Speaker 1: can work with. Consumer sentiment is up. I do think

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Speaker 1: that is part of why you're seeing a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Biden positive movement in terms of the polls. But

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Speaker 1: you know, to just get snippy and hang of the phone,

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Speaker 1: is like, why did you do this interview in the

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Speaker 1: first place?

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Speaker 4: Then yeah, well, no exactly, and she should be perfectly

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Speaker 4: capable of handling these interviews great questions. I thought, like,

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Speaker 4: this is not getting down in conspiracy theory rabbit holes.

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Speaker 4: He did a great job. He just asked two clear,

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Speaker 4: fair questions.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: This is also on the heels of the New York

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Speaker 4: Times reporting that President Obama is getting a former President

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Speaker 4: Obama's getting increasingly involved in the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 4: We can put this tear sheet up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: The headline from the New York Times is Obama fearing

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Speaker 4: Biden lost to Trump, is on the phone to strategize,

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Speaker 4: They write, as the election approaches, President Biden is making

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Speaker 4: regular calls to former President Obama to catch up on

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Speaker 4: the race or talk about family. But mister Obama is

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Speaker 4: making calls of his own to Jeff Zeinz, the White

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Speaker 4: House Chief of Staff, and to top aids at the

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Speaker 4: Biden campaign just to strategize and relay advice. This level

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Speaker 4: of engagement illustrates mister obama support for mister Biden, but

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Speaker 4: also what one of his senior aides characterized as mister

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Speaker 4: Obama's grave concern that Biden could lose to former President

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Speaker 4: Donald J.

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Speaker 5: Trump.

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Speaker 4: So we've seen other people start really sounding the alarms,

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Speaker 4: saying this is not you cannot, for example with Karreean

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Speaker 4: Jean Pierre, you cannot just expect to be morally indignant

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Speaker 4: at questions about Joe Biden's age and people's concerns about

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Speaker 4: the economy and expect that Trump will be so crazy

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Speaker 4: you will just cruise to reelection. That is not going

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Speaker 4: to be a winning strategy. You have to have something

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Speaker 4: better than saying, look at Joe Biden, because to your point, Crystal.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of the problem.

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Speaker 4: So they've had that interesting relationship Obama and Biden for

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Speaker 4: a long time, and obviously this was even in the

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Speaker 4: Special Council. Her transcript, Biden conceded that Obama didn't want

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Speaker 4: him to run back in twenty sixteen, but now Obama said,

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Speaker 4: gotta get in there, Joe, because this one is going to.

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Speaker 5: Be pretty close by the way.

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Speaker 1: I think Obama's political instincts in twenty sixteen were dead wrong.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it didn't work out with Hillary Clinton.

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Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden, you know, he was much more

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Speaker 1: at the top of his game in twenty sixteen. I

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Speaker 1: think he was probably a more talented political figure. And

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Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden is right to feel like he

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Speaker 1: had a shot. I mean, if he could beat Trump

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty as a diminished Joe Biden, I think

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Speaker 1: he had a decent shot at beating Trump in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen as well, and was better positioned than Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: to do so. One can never know, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that Barack Obama's political instincts in that regard were

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Speaker 1: dead wrong. And with Obama, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 1: his political instincts, they've really never served anyone except himself,

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Speaker 1: Like he was very good at getting himself elected and

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Speaker 1: getting himself re elected did but also during his time,

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Speaker 1: over the course of that eight years, the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: was really decimated, especially in rural areas. There was just

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Speaker 1: you know, a thousand state house seats that were lost.

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Speaker 1: It was at a critical time because it was twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: and that's when redistricting happened, the number of governor's matches

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Speaker 1: that were lost. You know, ultimately, the lose the House,

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Speaker 1: and they lose the Senate, and then they lose the

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Speaker 1: presidency to Donald Trump. So while he is himself personally

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Speaker 1: an extraordinarily talented political figure, there's no indication that there's

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Speaker 1: really an ability to transfer that over to anyone else.

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Speaker 1: Now that being said, Obama, even though he kind of

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Speaker 1: stays out of the political limelight, he seeks other SERTs

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Speaker 1: of limelights that stays out of the political limelight. He

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Speaker 1: obviously has been incredibly influential in crafting the trajectory of

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party in his post presidency, and basically, you know,

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Speaker 1: his goal, his interests in terms of securing his legacy

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Speaker 1: have always been to make sure that no one does

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Speaker 1: anything like bigger and.

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Speaker 6: Better than he does.

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Speaker 1: So that's why he was on the warpath against Bernie Sanders,

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Speaker 1: because how does Obamacare look in retrospect if you end

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Speaker 1: up with Medicare for all, well, that kind of really

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Speaker 1: diminishes him and his legacy ultimately. So he uh famously,

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Speaker 1: you know, was very involved in DNC and putting Tom

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Speaker 1: Perez in charge. He was very involved then in helping

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden secure the nomination in twenty twenty, even though

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Speaker 1: all the indications were that once again he was very

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Speaker 1: reluctant about thinking that Joe Biden was the guy.

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Speaker 6: He waited.

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Speaker 1: He you know, flirted with Pete and Bato and a

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Speaker 1: whole cast of other Democratic contenders before it was clear like, okay,

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Speaker 1: if you actually want to beat Bernie, you got to

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Speaker 1: line up behind Joe Biden right now. And he made

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Speaker 1: the calls and got every ready to drop out and

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Speaker 1: fall in line behind Joe Biden. And so he really

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Speaker 1: does to a large extent, which I think probably greats

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Speaker 1: on him. Ohe his election and you know, his success

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Speaker 1: in winning the nomination to Barack Obama, as you reference,

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Speaker 1: they've always had. You just has an interesting relationship, a beautifulship.

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Speaker 1: It's a complex relationship because Obama is this you know,

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Speaker 1: Ivy league intellectually, He's got all those sorts of types

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Speaker 1: around him. That's the ecosystem that he's comfortable in. Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: I'm a Scranton you know, with is like working class.

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Speaker 5: Affects, a powering intellect.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's a stupid man, but he's you know,

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Speaker 1: they're they're sort of like oil and water when it

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Speaker 1: comes to their style of politics. Biden is all about

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Speaker 1: the personal and not way. He's kind of more like Trump.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's very hands on. He wants to be

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Speaker 1: in there working this person and that person.

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Speaker 6: And at this point, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, the politics have really moved past that era and

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Speaker 1: is sort of like, you know, very outdated that mode

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Speaker 1: of doing politics, and he and Obama just you know,

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Speaker 1: they kind of clash in terms of their political style,

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Speaker 1: though Obama people kind of look down their nose at him.

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Speaker 1: Reportedly from other reports, Joe Biden still is like talks

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Speaker 1: about Obama all the time, like, oh, I bet Obama

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Speaker 1: wishes he could have done that. So I think a

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Speaker 1: big motivation in his presidency is just to like prove

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Speaker 1: the Obama people wrong. So anyway, that's you know, when

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Speaker 1: you talk about their interesting relationship, that's some of the

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Speaker 1: backstory there, and that's why part of why it's noteworthy

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Speaker 1: that you know, Obama's jumping into the freight here wholeheartedly

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Speaker 1: to try to rescue Joe because clearly he feels that

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Speaker 1: this campaign is not exactly off to a stunningly successful start.

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Speaker 4: You know, there were people in twenty fifteen and twenty

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Speaker 4: sixteen that said, you know, bregsit really had a chance,

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Speaker 4: and there were people who didn't, and Obama was very

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Speaker 4: much among the people who didn't. And then that pretended

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Speaker 4: what happened in twenty sixteen with Donald Trump. And yeah,

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Speaker 4: I agree, I think that's that's a really good point.

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Speaker 4: And now, actually, here's an interesting glimpse also at maybe

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Speaker 4: how Democrats are trying to have good political instincts. We

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Speaker 4: can put this next tear sheet up on the screen

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Speaker 4: from Axios that writes for the first time in more

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Speaker 4: than two months, President Biden. On Tuesday, he was in

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Speaker 4: North Carolina again publicly uttered a word that he and

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Speaker 4: other Democrats have largely abandoned, quote biden nomics. It was

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Speaker 4: the first time that he did that since January twenty fifth.

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Speaker 4: Shout out to Axios for tracking the times that Biden

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Speaker 4: uses the phrase Bidenomics, because if you look at that chart,

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Speaker 4: it's extremely detailed. They also, i mean it started, yeah,

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Speaker 4: twenty nine, twenty nine times in July twenty one and fifteen,

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Speaker 4: thirteen fourteen. They have these like very detailed counts. But

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Speaker 4: it's also gone to congressional Democrats. They have a chart

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Speaker 4: in the same article where they show congressional Democrats mentioning

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Speaker 4: Bidenomics way less in the fall and now basically not

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Speaker 4: using that phrase at all.

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Speaker 5: Meanwhile, Republicans have.

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Speaker 4: Used bidenomics quote nearly five hundred times this month in

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Speaker 4: their public statements.

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Speaker 5: So there you see, And this is interesting.

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Speaker 4: It goes back to the Korean John Pierre interview, right

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Speaker 4: that she could have had some type of answer to

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Speaker 4: what was going on with the grocery bills and that

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Speaker 4: just basic question that is in a lot of people's minds,

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Speaker 4: even though Democrats don't want to admit that, some people

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Speaker 4: still aren't super happy with the economy, and a lot

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Speaker 4: of it comes down to, you know, the rate of

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Speaker 4: increase of inflation can decrease, it doesn't mean that prices

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Speaker 4: are any lower than they were when people remember, and

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Speaker 4: so they just it's like they're flailing to come up

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Speaker 4: with a good answer to this question. Yeah, Chris, it

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Speaker 4: actually shouldn't be that hard. Just from like a political.

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Speaker 1: Perspective, Democrats famously horrific at branding and messaging, just terrible

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Speaker 1: build back back, come on the inflation reduction. I like

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Speaker 1: they're so bad at this Apparently Biden was kind of

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Speaker 1: reluctant about the Bidenomics label to start with. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: his political team seemed like they were into it, and

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Speaker 1: he was like a little bit reluctant with it to

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Speaker 1: begin with. And his instinct in this case was much

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Speaker 1: better than the teams, because you don't want to own

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Speaker 1: with your name branded oh every aspect of this economy

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Speaker 1: right now, you really don't. And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: when they saw the way that Republicans found this branding

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Speaker 1: very useful and seized on it, and they sort of realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: people are not feeling great about this economy. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the economy is not great, and they still have a

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Speaker 1: lot of really legitimate problems with it. And there's also

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Speaker 1: like I could explain to you what Bidenomics is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that their team could explain to you what

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Speaker 1: Bidenomics is, but I don't. It's not like there's a

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Speaker 1: super clear like this is the biden way of approaching

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Speaker 1: the economy that most normies would be able to explain

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Speaker 1: to you. So it was a fail on every level.

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Speaker 1: It does sort of remind me of you know, the

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Speaker 1: Obamacare Affordable Care act Oba versus Obamacare debate. Back in

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Speaker 1: the day, Republicans wanted to brand it as Obamacare because

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Speaker 1: they wanted him to own anything that people were dissatisfied

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Speaker 1: with with the law, and they also wanted to put

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Speaker 1: you know, he was very unpopular at the time, so

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Speaker 1: they wanted to brand it in that way also to

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Speaker 1: undercut the program itself. And you know, at the time

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Speaker 1: that was listen that you guys know my thoughts on healthcare,

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Speaker 1: like it was better than the previous iteration, but obviously

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Speaker 1: still has a whole lot of problems. So at the

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Speaker 1: time that branding was really bad for them. Now it's

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Speaker 1: not as bad as things have worn on, and so

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Speaker 1: maybe ten years from now people would be able to

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Speaker 1: speak to a Bidenomics that they understand and that they

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Speaker 1: could relate to. But right now, in the here and now,

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Speaker 1: obviously this has this particular branding exercise has not worked

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Speaker 1: out well for them, and.

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Speaker 6: They've taken more to wanting to blame Trump.

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Speaker 1: For any dissatisfaction that people have with the economy, which

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Speaker 1: is a polar opposite approach of branding the economy like

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Speaker 1: Bidenomics and trying to own all of it. Instead they're

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Speaker 1: actually now trying to more like shift blame, like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: if you're not happy, it's because of the last guy,

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Speaker 1: and we're trying to clean up his mess.

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Speaker 4: If unless you're mailing people checks in an emergency or

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Speaker 4: any at any time like Donald Trump did, you're not

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Speaker 4: going to want to put your name on the state

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Speaker 4: of the economy because there are always a big chunk

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Speaker 4: of people who are like this is the nature of

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Speaker 4: the American economy. There's always going to be a big

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Speaker 4: chunk of people that are deeply dissatisfied with the economy,

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Speaker 4: especially after a pandemic and then recession and all of

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Speaker 4: the various economic fallout from that. It's just an incredibly

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Speaker 4: stupid move to want to put your name on that again,

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Speaker 4: unless you are literally mailing tecks and signing them Joe Biden, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it just makes no sense from a political perspective.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I said in a minute ago, I could

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Speaker 1: describe you a Bidenomics is I mean, if you actually

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Speaker 1: look at the record of this administration, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure what they mean by Bidenomics, to

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Speaker 1: be totally honest with you, like how they would describe

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Speaker 1: the policy. The actual policy record is allowing all of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic era social safety net pieces to expire, allowing

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Speaker 1: the child tax credit to expire, so.

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Speaker 5: Basically up student loan forgiveness.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically like undercutting the social safety net that's

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Speaker 1: been one part of Bidenomics. You've got the infrastructure, You've

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Speaker 1: got some sort of like you've got antitrust, You've got

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Speaker 1: the NLRB, which is much more muscular than it's ever been.

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Speaker 1: Those are the pieces that I would put on the positive.

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Speaker 6: Side of the ledger.

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Speaker 1: So those are like the actual realities of Bidenomics.

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Speaker 6: But I don't know that that's how they would.

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Speaker 1: They would probably not emphasize that stripping of the social

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Speaker 1: safety net piece.

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Speaker 5: Probably in particular.

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Speaker 4: They just like to talk about cracking down on corporate greed,

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Speaker 4: which I mean from the anti trust perspective, sure, but

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Speaker 4: they never talk about their anti trust policy.

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Speaker 5: Is funny enough. Let's take a look at the polling though.

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Speaker 4: So this is where things are going to get really

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Speaker 4: interesting because we talked about Ryan and I talked about

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Speaker 4: the RFK junior vice presidential announcement on yesterday's show, and

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Speaker 4: you know, as much as I know, it's fun for

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Speaker 4: people online to like dunk on RFK Junior, there's going

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Speaker 4: to be there's potential for this to really affect the

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Speaker 4: Trump and Biden campaigns, So there's no question about it.

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Speaker 4: So if we put a four up on the screen,

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Speaker 4: what we will see is just Joe Biden and Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump head to head. So to Crystal's point she mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 4: Biden has seen this is quinnipiac. Biden has seen some

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Speaker 4: better polling recently, so he's at forty eight here and

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Speaker 4: Trump he's at forty five percent. So that's that may

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Speaker 4: or may not be within the margin of error. It's

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Speaker 4: pretty close. And the RCP average has Donald Trump up

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Speaker 4: one point four. So Trump's at forty six point seven

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Speaker 4: and Biden's at forty five point three in the RCP average.

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Speaker 4: But that said, it's actually been tightening for if you

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Speaker 4: look at it about the past month. So it's a

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Speaker 4: close race, and then it gets a whole lot closer

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Speaker 4: because increasingly the Biden Trump binary is not what is

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Speaker 4: going to be on the ballot. It's not realistic from

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Speaker 4: an electoral college perspective at this point either.

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Speaker 5: So we have more polling that we can put up.

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Speaker 4: The next element when you add third party candidates, and

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Speaker 4: that's an additional seven percent support if you're looking at

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Speaker 4: this on your screen for Jill Stein and Cornell West,

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Speaker 4: so not just RFK Junior, but if you put all

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Speaker 4: of them together, he's around thirteen percent. In that Quinnipiac

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Speaker 4: University poll, you are around twenty percent of support for

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Speaker 4: third party candidates. People have looked at the support for

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Speaker 4: both of the major party nominees and said the polling

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Speaker 4: is on track when you add a third party candidate

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Speaker 4: in the race for them to be at Clinton esque

439
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 4: eras when Ross Perrot was a bit of a spoiler

440
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety two. That's obviously hotly debated still to

441
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 4: this day, but the point remains that he took a

442
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 4: share of the vote away from both candidates, and that

443
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 4: meant Bill Clinton. I think he was what forty two

444
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 4: forty three percent he won the presidency somewhere somewhere in

445
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 4: there where it's not like the big mandate. When you

446
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 4: have somebody like Barack Obama winning in two thousand and eight,

447
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 4: you're realistically looking at a candidate that's going to win

448
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 4: with perhaps low forties or even high thirties percent of

449
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 4: the vote, and could be you know these candidates in

450
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 4: a state like Pennsylvania, right, And I talked about this

451
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 4: yesterday to Crystal. Jill Stein only basically needed to be

452
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 4: on the ballot in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in twenty sixteen

453
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 4: to make Hillary Clinton blame Russia for losing. Because Jill

454
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 4: Stein actually did take a decent chunk away from Hillary

455
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 4: Clinton in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin electorally.

456
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: Well, that also is hotly content because if you ask

457
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: a lot of jill Stein voters, if they're like, I

458
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: was not going to vote if it wasn't for Jill Stein.

459
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 5: I think that's true and obvious.

460
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, when you lose and you blame some

461
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 1: other entity, it's almost always cope. So we'll put all

462
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,239
Speaker 1: that aside. But by the way I looked it up,

463
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: you were very close. Bill Clinton forty three percent overall,

464
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 1: George hw Bush thirty seven point four, and Ross Borrow

465
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: eighteen point nine. So we are right in that ballpark

466
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: of those potential results.

467
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 6: Jill Stein, when.

468
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: You look at these three candidates, is the one who

469
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: actually has the clearest path to being on the ballots

470
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: in the most states. And you know there is a

471
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: chance she'll take a few percentage points from Joe Biden.

472
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: She's certainly not taking any from Donald Trump or very

473
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: minimal Cornell West. I think has probably the most challenging

474
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: path to getting ballot access in potentially any states.

475
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 6: I don't know.

476
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: RFK Junior, you know, he also has a challenging path,

477
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: but he has much more money behind him. He's got

478
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: apparently a real organization trying to get on the ballot

479
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: in a number of key swing states that they have targeted.

480
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: In Novada, yeah, well, maybe he did obtain the requisite

481
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 1: number of signatures, but my understanding is that you know,

482
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: they may they This is not really his fault. They

483
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: make these procedures as onerous as they possibly can to

484
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: try to keep third party candidates off the ballot. Apparently,

485
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: when he filed his signatures in Nevada, you had to

486
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: have a vice presidential pick. He didn't quite have a

487
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 1: vice presidential pick yet, so not with's in doubt whether

488
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: he'll actually get on the ballot Nevada.

489
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 6: I don't know what the.

490
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: Latest is with that, but it is a good illustration

491
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: of some of the obstacles that he faces, even with

492
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: a well funded campaign and now a vice presidential pick

493
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 1: who can further fund the campaign as you and Ryan were,

494
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: I think abstutely discussing which to me. You know, I

495
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 1: know people are a little confused in some ways by

496
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: his vice presidential pick. But if your number one challenge

497
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: is ballot access, is not the craziest thing in the

498
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: world to bring in a billionaire who can, you know,

499
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 1: front you one hundred million bucks and help you get

500
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: on the ballot.

501
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 6: If that's like old.

502
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: Number one, and you got your eyes on the prize,

503
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 1: then maybe that's not such a crazy, such a crazy

504
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: choice to make.

505
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 5: You guys should have picked billionaires to host counterpoints, be.

506
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 4: Doing this from like fund the top of the Empire

507
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 4: state building.

508
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 6: I'm happy with our choices personally.

509
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 4: No regrets, No regrets. That's from one of my favorite movies,

510
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 4: We're the Millers. Oh really, ma gosh, Crystal. Okay, you

511
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 4: know it's a pretty it's a pretty let's say basic movie. Now,

512
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is pivoting to RFK Junior.

513
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 5: Let's put this next image up on the screen.

514
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 4: This is a truth social post for Donald Trump, who

515
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 4: says rf K Junior is the most radical left candidate

516
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: in the race by far. He's a big fan of

517
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 4: the Green new scam and other economy killing disasters.

518
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 5: So if you're watching this, you see.

519
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: Trump posted a pretty hefty paragraph on truth social at

520
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 4: one am on March.

521
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: Six, always a sign of a cool, reasoned and rational

522
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: social media posting when it drops at one fifty two am.

523
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 4: Oh Man, well, soccer was already like doing his morning workout.

524
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 6: Is could plunge?

525
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 5: That was for soccer.

526
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: But so this is actually again, this is interesting, really

527
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 4: interesting from my perspective because I think we are going

528
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 4: to see more of this from Donald Trump. I think

529
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 4: he's actually like, really rankled that any group of sort

530
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 4: of anti establishment Republican voters that he has owned, he

531
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 4: has created to some extent this movement that is now

532
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: sort of looking at RFK Junior. Now, I don't think

533
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 4: that they're going to shift from in huge numbers from

534
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 4: RFK Junior to from Donald Trump to RFK Junior. I do, though,

535
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: think that Trump is really bothered by it. He knows

536
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: that those margins could be thin in a place like

537
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 4: Wisconsin or Pennsylvania. And as Trump pivots to RFK Junior

538
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 4: and says, for example, he's a fan of the green

539
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: news scam. My theory is that actually made more Biden

540
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 4: leaners become interested in RFK Junior. People who have only

541
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: heard of him as a crazy anti vaxxer from the

542
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: media turn and realize this guy.

543
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 5: Clean up the Hudson River.

544
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: Well, like, this guy has some real progressive bona fides

545
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 4: going back decades. So I think, I that's one of

546
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: the interesting things. Yeah, potentially about DEM voters Biden and RFK.

547
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: I wish he was actually in favor of the quote

548
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: unquote green new scam. But I mean I've interviewed him

549
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: a couple times and asked him specifically about his environmental policy,

550
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: and he was very explicit that he believes in, you know,

551
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: the free market's ability to clean up the environment. He

552
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 1: doesn't want to really talk about climate change because he

553
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: thinks that it's like off putting to you know, some

554
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: of the independents or Republicans potentially that he wants to

555
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: win over. So he does not in fact support the

556
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: quote unquote green news scam as much as I actually

557
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: wish that he would.

558
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 5: And that's why Trump is threatened by him, because he's

559
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 5: not talking about it.

560
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: Well, and let's put the next up on the screen.

561
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: This is the other reason why even though I know, recently,

562
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: polls have shown that more Biden voters defect RFK Junior

563
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: than Trump, although it continues to be pretty close.

564
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 6: You still have.

565
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: These favorable ratings that are much higher for RFK among

566
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: Republicans than they are among Democrats. So keep this up

567
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: on the screen so I can explain this. This is

568
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 1: from a New Economist you gov poll that I found,

569
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: and they ask rfk's favorability by voter intent. So if

570
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: you say you're you're you know, Biden and Trump are

571
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: the only choices, and you say you're going to vote

572
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: for Biden. Out of that group, only nineteen percent have

573
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: a favorable view of RFK. If your intention is to

574
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: vote for Trump fifty eight percent, so much higher number.

575
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: You know, large majority have a favorable view of RFK.

576
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: And of course the favorability is the polar opposite. Sixty

577
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: five percent of voters who are Biden intending voters have

578
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: an unfavorable view of RFK and for the Trump number,

579
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: it's only twenty seven percent. You have a negative view

580
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: of RFK Junior. I mean, he really is kind of

581
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: a prism, like depends on what issue, depends.

582
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 6: On what era.

583
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: Even his anti vax stuff, right, just ten years ago,

584
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: that would have read as like kooky left liberal, Hollywood

585
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: right viewpoint right right now it reads j yeah, exactly

586
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: now codes very heavy right wing right. You know, the

587
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: way he talks about censorship, like he really leaned into Ukraine,

588
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: which you know, his view of ending that war and

589
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: stopping the weaponship, the things I support, by the way,

590
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: but that codes at this point right wing, which is

591
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: kind of ridiculous, but anyway, that's how it often codes.

592
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: And then, like I said, the fact that he's so

593
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: prominent in the anti vax movement, I want to really

594
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: the leaders there that obviously codes right wing. So and

595
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: you had at the beginning of his campaign, when he

596
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: was running in the Democratic primary, all of these Republicans

597
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: who found it very convenient, including the Fox News types

598
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: two boost him and thought that was really useful as

599
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: a weapon against Joe Biden. And then when he switched

600
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: to running as an independant, they couldn't just turn that

601
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: off and be like just kidding, Actually, we hate this

602
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: guy and he's a liberal and he loves the Green

603
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: News crist who.

604
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 4: Was on Epstein's jet, Like that's the stuff that bubbles

605
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 4: up on this right in these corners of social media,

606
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: but truly like it's when you look at, for example,

607
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 4: how he's courted the Libertarian Party's vote and whether he

608
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: would run on the Libertarian Party ticket, which had the

609
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: infrastructure to get on the ballot in some of those

610
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: states in a way that you know, the knowledgeable people

611
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 4: that were doing this and had, like Jill Stein, she

612
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: knows how to do it. If you look back at

613
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: how he tried to court libertarian voters, a lot of

614
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 4: them had a problem with that sort of regulatory question.

615
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 4: But he's running to address that because he seems to

616
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 4: think that's his best path to getting significant numbers in

617
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 4: some of those states. And how that evolves if the

618
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 4: Republican Party starts really amplifying Trump's message. They have done

619
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 4: it a little bit before this true social post. It's

620
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: not the first time they've waited, Yeah, put out statements

621
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: and stuff.

622
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: Well they also, I mean, Sean Hannity had been like

623
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: his best buddy while he was running in the Democratic primary.

624
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: And then he comes back on and Hannity drops like

625
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: but clearly a whole abo file that he had gotten

626
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: from Trump of like here's all the ways you're a

627
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: liberal global is terrible whatever. So, I mean they did

628
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: try to turn on a dime with regard to their

629
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: attitude towards them. There were even some conservatives like on

630
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: Twitter who literally were like, now I'm going to attack

631
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: him because now he's no longer useful to me. All

632
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: of this is a long way for in terms of

633
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, my perspective saying, it's very unclear to me

634
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: who ultimately he's going to quote unquote.

635
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 6: Take more from.

636
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: I think, you know, with Jilli, with Jill Biden, Jill Stein,

637
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: and Cornell West much more clear, like they're lefties. You

638
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: know they're going to pull from that side of the spectrum.

639
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: That's very clear. RFK Junior. I still think it's a

640
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: giant question mark. The Kennedy name obviously very democratic coded

641
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: some more recent views, and the ecosystems he was inhabiting

642
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: much more Republican coded. Now he's got this new vice

643
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: presidential pick who does seem to be like a lib

644
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: you know in the causes she's funded, etc. And then

645
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: there's always the question of what ballots will even be on,

646
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: which is where the Libertarian Party nomination potential really comes

647
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: into play.

648
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

649
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 4: Absolutely, the RNC, speaking of the twenty twenty four election,

650
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: the RNC is gearing up to actually address concerns about

651
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 4: the election itself, which are rampant in conservative circles, in

652
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: conservative movement circles, in conservative supporter circles, conservative donor circles.

653
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: So you can understand why the RNC is then going

654
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 4: to try to make this a focus of its sort

655
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: of campaign on the ground in the next several months.

656
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 4: But Crystal, oh my goodness, a lot of people know

657
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: probably that Trump's daughter in law, Laura Trump, who's married

658
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 4: to Eric Trump, is now a co chair of the

659
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: RNC after the sort of soft coup that ousted Roni McDaniel,

660
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 4: who then faced another soft coup at NPC news just

661
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: can't get going from the revolutionaries in the Republican Party.

662
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 4: But Laura Trump is now a co chair of the RNC,

663
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 4: which is obviously the Republican Party's official apparatus. Here in Washington, DC,

664
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: she sat down for an interview with Garrett hak of

665
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: NBC News and they had a conversation about basically the

666
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 4: way they're going to handle the question of the twenty

667
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 4: twenty election, which is huge because it affects the way

668
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: they're going to handle the twenty twenty four election. It

669
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 4: affects the way voters decide whether or not to even

670
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 4: go to the polls, whether or not to how to

671
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 4: think about election results. So let's first start by just

672
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 4: rolling the clip and we'll dive into it after that.

673
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 11: Is it going to be the position of the RNC

674
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 11: in twenty twenty four that the twenty twenty election was

675
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 11: not fairly decided or the was stolen somehow?

676
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 10: Well, I think we're past that. I think that's in

677
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 10: the past. We learned a lot. Certainly, we took a

678
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 10: lot of notes. Right now, we have twenty three states

679
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 10: that have seventy eight law suits in these states to

680
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 10: ensure that it is harder to cheat and easier to vote.

681
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 10: We want fairness and transparency in our elections.

682
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 11: Does that support for him financially include paying his legal

683
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 11: bills directly, not from the RNC.

684
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 10: It does not support paying his legal bills.

685
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 11: How do you tell people who are sending money to

686
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 11: the RNC, people who may have never hired a lawyer

687
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 11: for themselves before in their life, but it's more important

688
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 11: to put their money towards paying the legal bills of

689
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 11: a billionaire than helping elect Republicans in Pennsylvania or in Michigan.

690
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 10: Well, if you've never had to hire a lawyer, you're

691
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 10: doing great stuff.

692
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 5: You're in great shape.

693
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 6: I'm very happy for you.

694
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 10: Look, that is the waterfall of the Joint Fundraising Committee

695
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 10: you're referencing, and anyone who does not want to contribute

696
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 10: to that very small amount of money is able to

697
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 10: opt out of that.

698
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 4: So I think he expected her to give a different

699
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 4: answer to the question about whether the RNC is going

700
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 4: to pay Donald Trump legal bills, because then he tried

701
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: to say, well, what do you say to R and

702
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: C donors who are giving money to pay Trump's legal

703
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 4: bills when she had just said that's through the.

704
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 5: Joint Fundraising Committee.

705
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 4: Now, obviously money is fungible and people are telling donors

706
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 4: where to put their money to do X, Y and z.

707
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 4: So that's still obviously part of the conversation. But you know,

708
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 4: Chrystal I was prepared based on the media coverage of

709
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 4: that interview. She stumbles, especially a little bit in the

710
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 4: beginning where she's like, that's in the past, it's in

711
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 4: the past, and kind of didn't know where to go

712
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 4: from there.

713
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 5: But it's a really really hard question.

714
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I thought, if you were just watching that

715
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 4: and not like looking at a transcript. She came out fine,

716
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 4: But that question Republicans still don't have a really really

717
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 4: good answer for it, which brings us to this tear

718
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 4: sheet we can put up. This is B two from

719
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 4: the Washington Post. Those seeking employment at the RNC after

720
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 4: a Trump back purge of the committee this month had

721
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 4: been asked in job interviews if they believe the twenty

722
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 4: twenty election was stolen, according to people familiar with the interviews,

723
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 4: making the false claim a litmus test of sorts for hiring.

724
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 4: In recent days, Trump advisors have quizzed multiple employees who

725
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: had worked in key twenty twenty four states and who

726
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 4: are reapplying for jobs about their views on the last

727
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 4: presidential election, according to people who spoke on the condition

728
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 4: of anonymity. So that's from the Washington Post. That is

729
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 4: why the RNC is in an incredible pickle. So a

730
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: lot of people lost their jobs but were invited to

731
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 4: reapply for them, as the story shows, And what they're

732
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 4: trying to do with the Trump people are trying to

733
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 4: do is filter out anyone who kind of like Ron McDaniel.

734
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 4: In her first interview with NBC News, when being pushed

735
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: about the twenty twenty election claims by Kristen Welker, said,

736
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 4: you know, when you work at the RNC, you just

737
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: got to take one for the team and I can

738
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 4: be more myself now, which is such a swampy thing

739
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 4: to say. They're now trying to filter out the operators

740
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: for the true believers, Like they want people who are

741
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 4: genuinely committed, and what they might end up getting are

742
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 4: people who are genuinely committed to acting like they're genuinely committed,

743
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 4: which is a real skill in Washington.

744
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 6: Well, in the end, what's the difference?

745
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 5: That's good?

746
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 6: Truly, you know, if you're in to me, that's well

747
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 6: what it is.

748
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 4: I think there were people who did that in twenty sixteen,

749
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: and they learned that those people when the going gets tough,

750
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: like in Alyssa Farah.

751
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, So are you willing in your job interview to

752
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: basically like accept these preposterous.

753
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 6: Things and state it publicly?

754
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: Like are you willing to kind of like debase yourself

755
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: to jump through that hoop? That's the requirement. They're being

756
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: hired back to the RNC.

757
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 4: They don't want Mike Pences like people who January sixth,

758
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 4: comes and they are not listening to what Donald Trump

759
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 4: and Johnny Sman are saying should be done with the electors,

760
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 4: Like that's what they're trying to screen out.

761
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's very I mean, it's obviously very dissonant

762
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: with what Laura Trump was trying to say in that

763
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: NBC interview, like, Oh, that's in the past.

764
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 6: Oh really, why is it.

765
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: A central part of your hiring process? Because Trump has

766
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: made this a central litmus for the Republican Party and

767
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: the Republican base. I think sees it as a central

768
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: litmus test. That's why you got the slate of candidates

769
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: you did in the midterm elections, which was really, you know,

770
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: unfortunate for Republicans who were hoping for better results there.

771
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: And obviously it's not in the past for Donald Trump,

772
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: who continues to talk about it all the time and

773
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen from Truth Social just

774
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: recently saying how many times is Fox New is going

775
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: to put on Rhino Bush apologist Mark Tieson he was

776
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: wrong about me in twenty sixteen, twenty twenty, I got

777
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: more votes than any sitting present in history, but the

778
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,479
Speaker 1: election was rigged, et.

779
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 6: Cetera, etc.

780
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: This is still you know, very standard at his rallies,

781
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: in his speeches. This is not the past for him,

782
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: and he's not going to let it go. He's not

783
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: going to move forward. And it has implications not only

784
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: in terms of this like R and C takeover and

785
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: making sure that they're you know, totally aligned with him

786
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: in every single way, which, let's be honest, the party committees,

787
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: like you know under Obama are now under by like that. Obviously,

788
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: the DNZ is fully aligned behind Joe Biden that primary

789
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: for him effectively. So it's not like it's unusual to

790
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: have the party apparatus totally in lockstep with whoever the

791
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: current president or the current nominee is. But it also

792
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: matters a lot when it comes to this question of

793
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: early voting. Yes, hugely because and that's part of what

794
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: Laura Trump was kind of like gesturing towards in that interview.

795
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: You know, if Trump had just leaned into getting people

796
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: to vote early and by mail, it's very possible he's

797
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: president right now. But instead of casting doubt on that process,

798
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: that everybody had to show up on election day, and

799
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: you guys, know how life is, right, you may have

800
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: every intention of voting and then you forget, or your

801
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: kid gets sick, or you got to stay late at

802
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: the job, or you're just really tired, or it's writing on.

803
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 6: You don't feel it like there's a million reasons. Yeah,

804
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 6: there's a million reasons. I can come up on election.

805
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: Day where you're like, Eh, this isn't going to happen.

806
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 6: For me today. This just isn't the cards.

807
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: So if you are banking on trying to get your

808
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: supporters there on that day, you are putting yourself at

809
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: a profound disadvantage.

810
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 6: Trump has clearly.

811
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: Been told by his political advisors that this was a

812
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: problem for him. At times he has signaled like, Okay,

813
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: now we got to do the mail in balloting thing,

814
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: But he also is very reluctant. And the views of

815
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: this among the Republican base are also pretty baked in now,

816
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: where they feel that this is susceptible to ringing. They

817
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: feel like they need to wait and show up on

818
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: election day. And so in every election we've had since then,

819
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: the early vote comes in more heavily democratic, the day

820
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: a vote comes in more heavily Republican. That is reversal

821
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: by the way of previous trends prior to COVID so

822
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: they're trying to reverse that. But the fact that this

823
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: election denialism and stop the deal stuff is still so

824
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: central to the Republican Party and so central and important

825
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: to Trump himself makes it very difficult to move beyond

826
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: that orientation towards early voting.

827
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just like an incredible catch twenty two. If

828
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 4: you talk about this and you tackle the issue head on,

829
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: which is exactly what your voters want you to do,

830
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 4: you also so distrust in the electoral process, which can

831
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 4: hurt turnout.

832
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 7: Yea.

833
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 5: So it's a really hard problem.

834
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: And I think that's one of the things that you know,

835
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 4: the Democrats made Katie Porter apologize for saying that she

836
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: felt her primary was rigged, which it's.

837
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 5: Like, clearly money does rig elections.

838
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 4: And as much as I hate to test the quote

839
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 4: stolen talk, and that's one of the interesting things about

840
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 4: Trump's true social posts is that he said rigged, and

841
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 4: he kind of started off staying stolen and has now

842
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 4: moved to using that rigged parlance. More that takes a

843
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 4: lot of money to push back on. You know, Molly

844
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 4: Ball had a long report and Time Magazine about all

845
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 4: of the money that Mark Zuckerberg poured into early voting efforts,

846
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 4: ballot curation, all of these things.

847
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 5: That party apparatuses.

848
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 4: Democrats just realized during COVID that they can use all

849
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 4: of these mechanisms put a lot of money behind it

850
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 4: in Democratic districts.

851
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: And that's politics.

852
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: So as much as I have an ideological disagreement with

853
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 4: huge early voting, which is a totally fair debate, I

854
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: think it's an interesting conversation.

855
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 5: As much as I might not like that, it is

856
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 5: the reality.

857
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 4: And so that's why they want to have loyalists stacking

858
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 4: the RNC because they know they need to get on

859
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: one page about this question, because it actually when you

860
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 4: have such a close match that could be within one

861
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 4: point between Trump and Biden, and you have all these

862
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 4: third party candidates we already talked about, you need to

863
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 4: be confident that you did absolutely everything you could in

864
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 4: those respects and that your voters wanted to vote because

865
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 4: they felt like their votes were going to be counted

866
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: in a place like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, whatever. So it's a

867
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: hugely difficult issue for Republicans. They're in a pickle catch

868
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 4: twenty two whatever you want to call it, and it's

869
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 4: not there's really no easy answer, But I guess they've

870
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 4: realized from a political perspective, it's better that they're on

871
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 4: the same page.

872
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 6: Yeah.

873
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: The proof that this is a real problem for them

874
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: comes from those Georgia elections that happened right after the

875
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: runoff election for those two Senate seats. And typically, you

876
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: know Sager and I when we were looking at the

877
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: election day results and we're like, oh, it's going to

878
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: a runoff. These are probably both going to be Republican

879
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: seats because that usually historically was the way the trend went,

880
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: that Republicans would out turn out Democrats in the runoff period.

881
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: And I think two things ended up being really critical.

882
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: Number One, Democrats, for once in their lives, actually had

883
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: a really good message that was very clear, which was

884
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: vote for us and you will get checks.

885
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 6: That worked very effectively.

886
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: But the other thing was you had all the stop

887
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: this Deal staff and you had people literally going down

888
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: to Georgia ostensibly the campaign for these candidates who were

889
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: calling into question whether your vote is even going to

890
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: be counted. So, yeah, if you're a voter and you're like,

891
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: what why am I going to take time out of

892
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: my life to go and vote when these people are

893
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: telling me, it's right and it's not going to be counted.

894
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: So I do think that that played into as well

895
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: the fact that they lost both of those seats and

896
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: therefore control of the Senate.

897
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 4: So let's pivot over to Alabama, where a fascinating special

898
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 4: election for a state House seat was just held.

899
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 5: There are results.

900
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 4: I you know, Chrystal, the media has talked a bit

901
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 4: about it, but I don't think they've talked about exactly

902
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 4: how impressive this margin of victory is for Democrats based

903
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 4: on what happened just in the twenty twenty two election

904
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 4: in this district. So we can go ahead and put

905
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 4: the first graphic up on this up on the screen.

906
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 4: This is Alabama State House District ten where Marylyn Lands

907
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 4: ran against Teddy Powell. She ran against a different candidate,

908
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 4: David Cole, back in twenty twenty two. You can see

909
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 4: the margin there. It was fifty two to forty five Republican.

910
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 4: Marylyn Lands just won this district sixty two to thirty

911
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 4: seven thirty eight Democrat. A huge flip and she even

912
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 4: as a conservative. Media and Alabama has pointed out she

913
00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 4: ran explicitly against the IVF decision in the Alabama Court

914
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 4: that got headlines for literally weeks because it was so huge.

915
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 4: She made that a centerpiece of her campaign, to the

916
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 4: point where, actually, Crystal I took a look at conservative

917
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 4: media and Alabama's coverage leading up to the vote on Tuesday,

918
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 4: and a lot of people seem to think that she

919
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 4: was running this national media campaign that wouldn't necessarily resonate

920
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 4: in a hyper local statehouse race. Oh interesting that the

921
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: other candidate, the Republican candidate, had localized it. Yellowhammer News

922
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 4: had an article I read them for like the conservative

923
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 4: take on Alabama politics. They have some good stuffy They

924
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: wrote basically that he was focused on these hyper local

925
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 4: issues and that she had made the abortion conversation a

926
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 4: centerpiece of her campaign.

927
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 5: And look at the margins. Wow, it wasn't you know what.

928
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 4: Some people might have expected, which is if she nationalized

929
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 4: a really local race and talked about these heavy, divisive issues,

930
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: she would turn off voters. And it wasn't you know,

931
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 4: resonant with people in this is like a district are

932
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 4: Huntsville who wasn't resonant That's actually turned out to be

933
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 4: very resonant.

934
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, well this is a district.

935
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: I know everybody, you think Alabama, you think super read

936
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: this is a swing district Trump wanted by a single point,

937
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: but she won it by a whole lot more than

938
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: a single point. I mean, I was kind of shocked

939
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: when we put this graphic up. I actually didn't realize

940
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: that it was that large of a margin. It's quite astonishing.

941
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: And I think there's a couple things going on here

942
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: in these special election results, which.

943
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 6: This is not a one off.

944
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: We've consistently seen a trend of Democrats really outperforming in

945
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: these special election off year elections that we've seen this

946
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 1: year and before. I think there's two things. I think

947
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: one row is absolutely huge, the fact that she tied

948
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,959
Speaker 1: this right into that IVF decision and just went after

949
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: it really hard and you have this kind of a result.

950
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's pretty undeniable, right. But the other

951
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: issue you have for Republicans is now that you've had

952
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: more of this realignment of college educated voters like white

953
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: collar voters.

954
00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 6: Into the Democratic coalition.

955
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: Republicans used to always have this advantage in mid terms,

956
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: off your election, special elections, et cetera, which is that

957
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 1: their coalition was more likely they were the more reliable voters,

958
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: and that's not the case anymore. You partly have the

959
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: issue we were talking about before about how there's a

960
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: deep skepticism of things like early voting or early in

961
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: person or mail in balloting or whatever. So you're limiting

962
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: yourself in terms of options you have getting the polls anyway,

963
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: making onerous on you anyway, and then you have these

964
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: ships in the coalition that lead to Democrats actually having

965
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: more of the like sort of I come out every

966
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: single election no matter what voters, and you end up

967
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: with these you know, consistent outperformances in the special elections.

968
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: It does make me question too, you know, the polling

969
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: we've been looking at it hasn't been reflective in terms

970
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: of I don't know that there was even any public

971
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: polling done in this race. But we've seen in other instances,

972
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: we've seen Trump underperforming in his primaries. We've seen you know,

973
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: Democratic out performances consistently again outside of the poll in

974
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: these special elections.

975
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 6: So it also does make.

976
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: Me question, like, are the polls missing some dynamic that's

977
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: going on here that may have an impact on the

978
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: presidential race. Now, on the other hand, that benefit of

979
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, the Democrats having in their coalition the reliable

980
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: voter that's going to turn up. Even in the off

981
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: year election, that may not matter as much when you're

982
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: talking about a presidential election, when you know you have

983
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,839
Speaker 1: a large turnout and so then you you know, are

984
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: bringing in more of the Republican coalition to the mix.

985
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: But you've had this polling trend as well where Biden

986
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: does really well with people who actually voted in the

987
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: last presidential election. Trump in one poll I think is

988
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: the New York Times Siena poll, he was winning people

989
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: who hadn't voted before who said they were going to

990
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: vote this time by twenty three points. So this will

991
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: be one of the central dynamics of you know, whatever

992
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: happens Trump b Biden.

993
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 5: That's a really good point.

994
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 4: And actually, if we put the A C two back

995
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 4: up on the screen, the actually this is probably not

996
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 4: entirely surprising, but the Lands campaign or Lands herself said today,

997
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 4: Alabama women and family sent a clear message that will

998
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 4: be heard of Montgomery and across the nation. Our legislature

999
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 4: must repeal Alabama's no exceptions abortion ban, fully, restore access

1000
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: to IVF, and protect the right to contraception. The president

1001
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 4: of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, it's the big dem

1002
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 4: organization in Alabama that's sort of squarely focused on these

1003
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 4: state races called the victory quote a political earthquake, And

1004
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 4: of course Democrats are going to spin something in a

1005
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: way that's best for them. But it's extremely telling that

1006
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 4: when Lance declared victory in a local house race, she

1007
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 4: said women and families sent a clear message about the

1008
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 4: no exceptions abortion ban, access to IVF, and the right

1009
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 4: to contraception. I mean, it's interesting because Republicans and conservatives

1010
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 4: in Alabama weren't necessarily wrong to look at a campaign

1011
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 4: like that in a local race and say other things

1012
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 4: like don't we need new sidewalks or bike trails or

1013
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 4: something like that. That's it's a common, you know, strategic

1014
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 4: mistake that people make.

1015
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: Not in this environment, all politics as national now, you know,

1016
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: it really is. It's just a different it's just a

1017
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: different landscape. And I also think it's very telling though

1018
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: that the Republicans decided to run the hyperlocal race and

1019
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: just avoid because you also, I mean, the other thing is,

1020
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: it's not like this IVF decision was a national decision.

1021
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: It was an Alabama situation, so it is also local.

1022
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: It's not like she was opening on something over which

1023
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: you would have no say and no input in the

1024
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: state house there. But I do think it's it's a

1025
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: tell because you see this dynamic often, you know where

1026
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: let's say you have a Democrat running in a rural

1027
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: area that's trending red. Let's say in Ohio. You know

1028
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: this trending rud or whatever. Yeah, they'll try to localize that.

1029
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: I'm not like those Democrats in Washington. This isn't about them,

1030
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: This about us right here in this place, et cetera.

1031
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: And that used to work very effectively, and I just

1032
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: don't think that it does really anymore. And you know,

1033
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: you can certainly point to certain examples where the trend

1034
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: goes in the other direction. But I think buy in

1035
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: large politics, it's national and if you're fighting against some

1036
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 1: big national issue that voters really have on their mind

1037
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: and you just don't want to talk about it, and

1038
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: then you're just trying to push it off to the side, like,

1039
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: don't think about that and don't worry about that. It's

1040
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: a challenging landscape to try to operate in. But like

1041
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: I said, the fact that the Republican just didn't even

1042
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: want to really approach this, didn't ever I don't know

1043
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: what their response was.

1044
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 6: I don't know how they were talking about it, but.

1045
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: They clearly didn't want to lean into that in their campaign.

1046
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: Is indicative of how, even in a district that Trump

1047
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: did win by a point, this ruling was so toxic

1048
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: that they know they just have to run away from it.

1049
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: And even when they did, they're losing by you know,

1050
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: more than twenty points.

1051
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 4: So now, speaking of losing, yeah, a lot of people

1052
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 4: predicted that the Supreme Court's oral arguments in Actually it's

1053
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 4: a case where conservatives are running against the FDA right

1054
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 4: because of methipristone, which is the oral abortion drug that

1055
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 4: is now accounting for more than half of abortions.

1056
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 5: We'll talk a little bit about that.

1057
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 4: But Aaron Hawley, who is actually the wife of Senator

1058
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 4: Josh Hawley, was arguing on behalf of an alliance of

1059
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 4: doctors that is upset about the FDA's fast tracking of

1060
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 4: MEPhI Perstone.

1061
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 5: This was back in like two thousand.

1062
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 4: This happened a really long time ago, and finally someone

1063
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 4: brought a case about it. That was the Fifth Circuit,

1064
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: which Ryan calls the crazy Circuit.

1065
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 5: It tends to be more conservative.

1066
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 4: Agreed that the FDA was wrong to fast track the

1067
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 4: approval of MEPhI Perstone when it did so at the

1068
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 4: time all those years ago. But basically standing was a

1069
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 4: huge question during the oral arguments that happened this week,

1070
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 4: and yet on standing and other issues. That question of

1071
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 4: standing meaning whether or not the alliance of doctors that

1072
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 4: Aaron Holly was representing has the sort of standing, has

1073
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 4: the legal sort of not right, but the legal case

1074
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 4: to present this argument to object to the approval.

1075
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 5: All those years ago.

1076
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 4: Aaron Hawley was getting really tough questions from the Conservative justices,

1077
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 4: so not just Kentanji Brown Jackson, but also from Brett Kavanaugh,

1078
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 4: also Amy Cony Barrett, who of course was ushering in

1079
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 4: the era of the Handmad's tale when she was confirmed,

1080
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 4: and others on the Supreme Court. I think even Justice

1081
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 4: Roberts joined the sort of pile on against Aaron Hawley.

1082
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 4: So there's an interesting exchange here with Neil Gorsich. Just

1083
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 4: listen to how he asks. It's a pretty pointed question

1084
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 4: to Aaron Hawley.

1085
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 12: If we were to find that there are conscientious objections

1086
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,720
Speaker 12: that say hospitals take them into account, and these doctors

1087
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 12: do have a way to not do these kinds of

1088
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 12: procedures should we in this case on that basis, No.

1089
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 9: You're honor, we would welcome that holding, but it's not

1090
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 9: broaden up to remedy our doctor's harm. Why because these

1091
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 9: are emergency situations. They can't waste precious moments scrubbing in No.

1092
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 12: No, no, I'm saying, assuming we have a world in

1093
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 12: which they can actually lodge the objections that you say

1094
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 12: that they have, my question is, isn't that enough to

1095
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 12: remedy their issue?

1096
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 3: Do we have to.

1097
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 12: Also entertain your argument that no one else in the

1098
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 12: world can have this drug or no one else in

1099
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 12: America should have this drug in order to protect your clients.

1100
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 5: So, again, your.

1101
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 9: Honor, it's not possible given the emergency nature of these situations.

1102
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 13: So let me interrupt there.

1103
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.

1104
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 13: I think just as Jackson's saying, and let's spots you

1105
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 13: all that, okay with respect to your clients. Normally, in

1106
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 13: Article three traditional equitable remedies we issue and we say

1107
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 13: over and over again, provide a remedy sufficient to address

1108
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 13: the plaintive susserted injuries and go no further. We have

1109
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 13: before us a handful of individuals who have asserted a

1110
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 13: conscious objection. Normally we would allow an equitable relief to

1111
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 13: address them. Recently, I think what Justice Jackson's alluding to,

1112
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 13: we've had one might call it a rash of universal

1113
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 13: injunctions or vacatures, and this case seems like a prime

1114
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 13: example of turning what could be a small lawsuit into

1115
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 13: a nationwide legislative assembly on an FDA rule or any

1116
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 13: other federal government action.

1117
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: So what you heard there is a heavy focus on

1118
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 4: the question of standing. If you were listening to this

1119
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 4: and not watching, you heard Kontanji Brown Jackson ask questions

1120
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 4: about that, and then you heard Neil Gorsich trumpet pointed

1121
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 4: Justice interrupt with some really pointed questions of his own.

1122
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, for Aeron kind of came in over the top, like,

1123
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: let me break this.

1124
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 5: Down right, Crystal. Are you surprised by that?

1125
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 4: A lot of conservaives are not remotely surprised by how Kavanaugh, Gore,

1126
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 4: such and Amy Cony Barrett have expressed their skepticism. Obviously

1127
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: standard disclosure. You never know based on oral arguments. People

1128
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 4: are often very surprised by what happens after oral arguments.

1129
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 4: Yet this one was sort of resoundingly against Aaron Hawley

1130
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 4: and her alliance of doctors.

1131
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: I'm not particularly surprised because I think the Supreme Court

1132
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 1: is trying to almost like rescue Republicans from the most

1133
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: extreme conclusions of the positions that they've you know, staken, staked.

1134
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 6: Down, staken out.

1135
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 5: So it's just sticking.

1136
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 6: Sticking, sticking down.

1137
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll go, We're going to go with that in

1138
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: any case. I so, you know, they also are very

1139
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: concerned with especially Roberts, with the standing of the incredibility

1140
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: of the court.

1141
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 6: So if the Court is.

1142
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,280
Speaker 1: Going out there and like, hey, Ivey have his band

1143
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: and no more you know abortion pill that is used

1144
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: now for sixty three percent of abortions, and they're just

1145
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: like going wild after Dobbs, then you're going to have

1146
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: a real problem of legitimacy of the court. You could

1147
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,479
Speaker 1: have a real movement to you know, stack the court

1148
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: or term limit or age limit or something. And by

1149
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: the way, those sorts of things, certainly the age term

1150
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: limits really popular if you ask the American public. So

1151
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: you can easily see some momentum getting behind an idea

1152
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: like that. If you have decisions routinely coming down that

1153
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: are wildly at odds with where the American people are.

1154
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: You know, my view of the court is that they

1155
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: take into consideration more of the political aspect of things

1156
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: then they do necessarily like then they'll find the legal

1157
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: grounding for wherever they want to be politically, ideologically, etc.

1158
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: But in terms of this legal question of standing, in particular,

1159
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: multiple of the justices, many of the conservative justices, we're

1160
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: saying basically like, listen, Okay, so you're a group of

1161
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: doctors that has this religious based objection to prescribing mif

1162
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 1: of pristone or performing abortions.

1163
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 6: Ordinarily, the normal.

1164
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: Sort of resolution or solution to that problem would be

1165
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: to give you a conscience exemption.

1166
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 6: You already have that. So now rather than you know.

1167
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: Being fine or filing some small lawsuit as Gorsich was

1168
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: suggesting there, now you're trying to clean injury even though

1169
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: you already have an exemption here. You don't have to

1170
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: prescribe mefipristo. No one is making you do that. You're

1171
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: trying to stretch to find some sort of harm that

1172
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: could theoretically be done to you. And in the course

1173
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: of you know, establishing that standing, then you want to

1174
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: take the ability of the entire nation to have access

1175
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: to this FDA approved drug. So a lot of the

1176
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: questions focused on that and didn't even get into what's

1177
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: called the merits of whether or not you can, you know,

1178
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: use this process to overturn what the FDA found because

1179
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: the FDA said, hey, this is safe. There's lots of

1180
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: studies that say it's safe. You know, there are very

1181
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: few problems or complications with it. And their argument is no, no, no,

1182
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: the FDA was wrong and they didn't go through they

1183
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 1: didn't do enough to make sure that it's safe. And

1184
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: so that's part of why we're harmed as doctors because

1185
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 1: we could hypothetically, theoretically have to treat a woman who's

1186
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: been injured by these pills even though we didn't prescribe it.

1187
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: And so I do think it's fair to say it's

1188
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: a bit of a stretch. They couldn't point to an

1189
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: example where this has actually happened. They're just sort of

1190
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: theorizing that maybe it possibly could potentially happen and using

1191
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: that as a way to try to, you know, undercut

1192
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: the FDA's approval for this drug for everyone in the

1193
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: entire country. So I mean, bottom line, listen, like you said,

1194
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: you never know how it's going to come down. You

1195
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: gotta wait and see and how it's going to go whatever.

1196
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: But if you've got Amy Coney Barrett, who is obviously

1197
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: very religious and very ideological on these issues, if even

1198
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: she's looking at your case like, no, this doesn't make

1199
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: any sense to me in terms of the harm, in

1200
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: terms of the standing, then I think you are in

1201
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: a pretty tough position in terms of prevailing here. And

1202
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I bet there are a lot of

1203
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: smart Republican and operatives out there who are praying, oh

1204
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court to say no to this and

1205
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: to you know, keep MiFi pristone legal. Because of the

1206
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: results we were talking about in Alabama, and because of

1207
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: the national trend which has now consistently been postdobs for

1208
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 1: more and more and more people to actually embrace abortion rights.

1209
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it really has sort of tipped the scales

1210
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: on an issue that previously was very much a fifty

1211
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: to fifty issue.

1212
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, our viewers know that I represent

1213
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 4: the minority of the minority on the question of abortion,

1214
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 4: pretty anti abortion. I do think there's some scary stuff

1215
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 4: out there about MEPhI pristone, and mostly it relates to

1216
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 4: doctors not doing a good job of prescribing it and

1217
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 4: saying this is what might happen. You know, these are

1218
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 4: possible complications, and there are some stories of women having

1219
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 4: awful experiences. You know, that's not happening every time people

1220
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 4: take mephipristone.

1221
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 5: But that's why.

1222
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 4: That's at least an explanation for why conservatives felt that

1223
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 4: they should bring this case, and why religious doctors conservative

1224
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 4: doctors felt like they should bring this and so one

1225
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 4: exchange that was interesting just on that question of standing

1226
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 4: was between Justice Alito and the Solicitor General, who was

1227
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 4: representing the FDA. Alito said, so, your argument here is

1228
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 4: that it doesn't matter if the FDA flagrantly violated the law,

1229
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 4: didn't do it was what it should have done, endangered

1230
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 4: the health of women. It's just too bad. Nobody can

1231
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 4: sue in court. There's no remedy. The American people have

1232
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 4: no remedy for that. The Solicitor General replied, well, I

1233
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 4: think it would be wrong to suggest that if the

1234
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 4: FDA had made a mistake and a drug were actually

1235
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 4: producing safety consequences, that there was nothing to be done.

1236
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 5: I thought that.

1237
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 4: Exchange was sort of the best clash of both sides

1238
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,439
Speaker 4: of the sort of Alito objection and the Solicitor General

1239
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 4: the government's position here.

1240
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 5: It is just an interesting question also.

1241
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 4: Again, christ kind of like a flipping of the general

1242
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 4: political positions on like the FDA versus doctors. Like a

1243
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 4: lot of times you would have the FDA is basically

1244
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 4: funded by pharma, and you have a lot of conservatives

1245
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 4: that are very in the past have been very defensive

1246
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 4: of the FDA because generally the positions of pharma and

1247
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 4: so here you have that like totally different clashing of opinions.

1248
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 4: So it's definitely like reading the tea leaves here, it

1249
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 4: looks like Thomas and Alito might be the only descents

1250
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 4: in this space. And especially because like Gorsach, Amy, Cony, Barrett,

1251
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 4: and Kavanaugh, a lot of conservatives see them as being

1252
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 4: more libertarian than quote unquote like a conservative like Burkian

1253
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 4: conservative positions, whether or not that's true Gorsis, especially, people

1254
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 4: suspect that of So just a really interesting presentation at

1255
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court and the political consequences to your point, Crystal,

1256
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 4: We've got some polling.

1257
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is pretty interesting. Our producers pulled this. Let's

1258
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: go and put this first one up on the screen.

1259
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 1: So we've got specific question here from Fox News on

1260
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 1: that liberal rag outlet Fox News views on mifipristone and

1261
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: on a nationwide abortion law, and you have sixty eight

1262
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: percent saying that access to abortion medication if a pristone,

1263
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: should be legal and only twenty eight percent saying it's illegal.

1264
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: I would actually like to see the partisan breakdown there,

1265
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 1: because that level of support means there is a significant

1266
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: chunk of Republicans who also think that you should have

1267
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: legal access to this.

1268
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 6: They also asked about.

1269
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: Support for a law guaranteeing access to legal abortion nationwide

1270
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: sixty five percent, so more than a supermajority say yes,

1271
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: we're in favor of that law guaranteeing access to legal abortion.

1272
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: Only thirty two percent of pose That would have been

1273
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: a very different result predobs in terms of views on abortion.

1274
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: Here you can actually see the trend which continues to

1275
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: move only in one direction. So now in March of

1276
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, you have thirty five percent who say

1277
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: abortion should always be legal. You have twenty four percent

1278
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: who say it should be legal most of the time.

1279
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: You have thirty two percent who say it should be

1280
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: illegal except for the tipical exceptions for rape incests and

1281
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: life of the mother. And you only have seven percent

1282
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: who say it should always be illegal. And you know

1283
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: that matters because there are a number of states where

1284
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: that is the de facto positions that should always be illegal.

1285
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: That's how you end up with a decision like in

1286
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: Alabama even outlawing IVF. And you can see the way

1287
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: that this has shifted over time to move where people

1288
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: are moving more and more to the pro choice position

1289
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: as it becomes really clear what the actual landscape looks.

1290
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 6: Like if you don't have those rights enshrined.

1291
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: In law, and people very you know, people very unhappy

1292
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: with potential IVF limits are going back to the stem

1293
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: cell debates or banning myth of pristone. These are wildly

1294
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: unpopular positions with a majority of the American public.

1295
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 4: One thing I wanted to point to in the polling

1296
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 4: is if you're looking at the movement between April twenty

1297
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 4: twenty two and March twenty twenty four, a lot of Republicans, conservatives,

1298
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 4: anti abortion groups will say Democrats' biggest vulnerability on this

1299
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 4: is the always legal group. That group has gone up

1300
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 4: since April of that's the largest group now look at

1301
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 4: that thirty five percent right now in March of twenty

1302
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 4: twenty four, and I agree, I think politically that is

1303
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 4: the sort of anti abortion side's best, like that's the

1304
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 4: best political message to defend themselves.

1305
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with that.

1306
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 4: I think they're right about that, but it's getting less

1307
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 4: and less effective when polls show people say the should

1308
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 4: always be between a woman and their doctor. You know,

1309
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 4: if they want an abortion in the third tremester, its

1310
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 4: must be for a good reason. That's the argument now

1311
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 4: that anti abortion candidates groups have to address, and it's

1312
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 4: actually getting even that's becoming more and more of an

1313
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 4: uphill battle. Also, what you see there is the legal

1314
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 4: except for rape incest, say the life of the mother,

1315
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 4: that has gone down to thirty two percent from forty

1316
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 4: three percent since April of twenty twenty two. And it

1317
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 4: is generally and it was back in twenty twenty two

1318
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 4: that was the biggest group and now always legal is

1319
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:57,479
Speaker 4: the biggest group.

1320
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 5: To your point, Crystal H.

1321
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 4: One reason for that might be people are having experiences

1322
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: with mephipristone that aren't the exceptions we can put the

1323
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 4: Washington Post.

1324
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 5: This is actually c five guys. You can put this

1325
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 5: up on this screen.

1326
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 4: The Washington Post headline here, abortions outside medical system increase

1327
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 4: sharply after row Fell study fines abortions after row Fell

1328
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 4: are actually going up. And I think a lot of

1329
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 4: that is because of MEPhI pristone. I mean, undoubtedly a

1330
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 4: lot of that is because MEFI pristone. Pro abortion groups

1331
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 4: have made a concerted effort to increase the availability of

1332
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 4: MEPhI pristone and to increase public awareness about MEFA pristone.

1333
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 4: So this is something that has to be contended with

1334
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 4: in ways that I don't think. And of course it

1335
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 4: was clear Ryan and I said this as it was

1336
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 4: happening on air when the Dobbs decision came out. The

1337
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 4: Republican Party has never been prepared for this, never been

1338
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 4: prepared for this, even though the writing was on the

1339
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 4: wall that something like this could be coming and that

1340
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 4: people would be really deeply unhappy about it. And Chris,

1341
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 4: with your point about the Court's perspective on itself, you

1342
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 4: know how it the threats to the sort of institutional

1343
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 4: trust of the Supreme Court. I bet that is weighing

1344
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 4: on their minds as they consider this huge case.

1345
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean, they're looking, they're consuming the news,

1346
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: they see this what has been an extraordinary backlash. I mean,

1347
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: I really underestimated just what a massive, massive shift this

1348
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: would be in terms of the politics of the issue,

1349
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: how much it would matter to people, how much it

1350
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: would dictate the results of elections. Every time, no matter

1351
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: what state you put it up in, if you've got

1352
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: a ballot initiative that's a bout abortion, the pro choice

1353
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: side has won every single time, you know, results in

1354
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: Alabama where you're winning by close to thirty points based

1355
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: on you know, the fallout after this decision.

1356
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 6: They're very aware of that.

1357
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: They're very aware of that, and that, you know, if

1358
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: they continue to you know, push in that direction and

1359
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: codify things that go even further than the Dobbs decision,

1360
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: that they're going to be on really thin ice. Because

1361
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: one thing that was noteworthy to me looking at some

1362
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: of that polling is that it's not like after Dobbs

1363
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: there was a major shake up and opinion and it

1364
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 1: just stopped there. The trend continues in this direction of

1365
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: more people saying, you know, I should just always be legal,

1366
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: or it should at least be legal in most cases,

1367
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: and the people who are on the pro life side.

1368
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,439
Speaker 1: That number is dwindling and dwindling and dwindling, even within

1369
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: the Republican Party. And then the other thing that has

1370
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: really changed is previously the group that was most organized

1371
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: and most activated on this issue, we're almost all on

1372
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: the pro life side, where this was like the voting issue,

1373
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: and that's just not the case anymore. Now you have,

1374
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: i think probably many more people who are really activated

1375
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: on the other side of this equation. And that's why

1376
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: you see such a tremendous shift in terms of electoral results.

1377
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: We played previously Trump getting asked about abortion, his instincs on.

1378
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 5: This are much better than most Republicans.

1379
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can also tell like he knows it's

1380
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 1: a problem, yes, and there is no He did the

1381
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: thing that you suggested of like, oh, let's talk about

1382
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,439
Speaker 1: you know, these partial board the versions or and the

1383
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: third trimester or when the baby's been born, which of

1384
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: course doesn't doesn't happen, but anyway, he tried to pivot

1385
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: to that. But that's just not the landscape that things

1386
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: are being fought on right now. The landscape that's being

1387
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: fought on is if of pristone and IVF and how

1388
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 1: much are you going to curtail the rights and you know,

1389
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 1: personhood bills and is there going to be a national

1390
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 1: abortion band, et cetera. And so I really don't think

1391
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: there is a messaging fixed for this. So, like I said,

1392
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure Trump and a lot of other Republicans are

1393
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: very happy that the Supreme Court is going in the

1394
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: other direction with the Smith of Pristone decision, likely because.

1395
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 6: It would be a total political catastrophe.

1396
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 1: For them if they went in in the other direction.

1397
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 1: And they're just hoping that emotions around this die down

1398
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: and that they're able to reassure people enough that they're

1399
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, not totally out on the fringes on this.

1400
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: But Trump is the guy that put those justices there,

1401
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: and you can't really, you can't really run away from

1402
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,560
Speaker 1: that ultimately, Like it's very difficult. Like I said, I

1403
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: don't think it's something you can message your way out

1404
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: of because the reality has become so apparent to people.

1405
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 4: No, it would need to be a culture shift for

1406
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 4: the politics to shift, and that would be a dramatic,

1407
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 4: it would have to be a dramatic, major culture shift.

1408
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 7: Churs.

1409
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 5: I hear the media is.

1410
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 1: Doing their thing as usual again all right, So let's

1411
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: go and put this up on the screen from the

1412
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: New York Times. So leave us up for a moment,

1413
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: because I'm going to give a little bit of a

1414
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: preview here. You guys will recall we've been covering it here.

1415
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: Ryan's some great work on this. Grey Zone has done

1416
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,400
Speaker 1: a lot of work. There's a lot of journalists who

1417
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: have done a lot of work on this. But New

1418
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: York Times published at the end of last year this

1419
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: piece that was supposed to be this seminal investigation into

1420
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: systematic rape as a weapon of war used by Hamas

1421
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 1: on October seventh. Okay, this piece drops, you know, they

1422
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 1: news alerted, they get it in under the deadline to

1423
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: try to submit it for Pulitzer, etc. And immediately some

1424
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: of the accounts are called into question, in particular the

1425
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: main account in the story that they lead the story

1426
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 1: with that makes up you know, a third of the

1427
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 1: written out reporting in the story. The family of this

1428
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: woman that they're alleging in the piece was subjected to

1429
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: sexual assault by Hamas says, we don't think that happened,

1430
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: and we didn't know that this is what you were

1431
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 1: reporting on. You interviewed us under false pretenses. Some of

1432
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: them went so far to say this is just not true, this.

1433
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 6: Is a lie. They have other evidence that contradicts is.

1434
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 5: So you got that.

1435
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: Then you have the reporters themselves very much called into question.

1436
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: So there were three people on the bilining of Jeffrey Gettlman,

1437
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: who's sort of like the heavy hitter, Pulitzer Prize winner, etc.

1438
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: He comes out after the pieces is like, well, what

1439
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: I do isn't really providing evidence, It's just telling stories.

1440
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 6: Like wait what. The other two on this who.

1441
01:10:54,600 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: Shared this byline had very little journalistic experience. One of

1442
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,879
Speaker 1: them are not Schwartz, literally a none. Prior to October seventh,

1443
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: she had been a small time like document documentarian and

1444
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,679
Speaker 1: they're sent into Israel to do all on the ground

1445
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: reporting and are this is an incredibly sensitive topic, Like

1446
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,759
Speaker 1: the fact that they're working with the New York Times,

1447
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of journalistic excellence around the world, and they're

1448
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: put on this assignment is crazy. And she gave an

1449
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,799
Speaker 1: interview Ryan Unearth Thiss in Hebrew talking about her process.

1450
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: As she's going around the country talking to the hospitals.

1451
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 5: She can't find podcast Yeah, right.

1452
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 1: Can't find a single survivor, can't find any for forensic evidence,

1453
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: but she finds this. She finally lands on this account

1454
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: of a medic who claims, and they write this out

1455
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: in the piece, that he saw two teenage girls murdered

1456
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 1: at Kibbutz Bier and describes them in this state seamen

1457
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: smeared on one of these their backs, horrific things that

1458
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 1: he describes. Right, So she runs with this, this is

1459
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: put into the piece, etc. Now, the New York Times

1460
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: itself is debunking that portion of the story, so they say,

1461
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 1: Israeli soldier's video has undercut this medics account of sexual

1462
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: assault at Kibbutz Bei a re. Kibbut's residents concluded that

1463
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: two sisters killed on October seventh were not victims of

1464
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: sexual violence. And again, this was a key part of

1465
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 1: the story. And in fact, I believe, if memory serves,

1466
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 1: when she came upon this account, this was what Anna

1467
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: Schwartz said, convinced her that, oh there was something systematic here.

1468
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: You've got two teenage girls here, and this is what

1469
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: persuaded her that there weren't isolated incidents, that it was

1470
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: a pattern of conduct. Well, this turns out to now,

1471
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,759
Speaker 1: according to the New York Times, have been debunked.

1472
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 6: Let me read you this. They say.

1473
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: New video is surface that undercuts the account of an

1474
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: Israeli military paramedic who said two teenagers killed mcmas led

1475
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: terrorist attack on October seventh were sexually assaulted. The unnamed

1476
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 1: paramedic from an Israeli commando unit was among dozens of

1477
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: people interviewed for a December twenty eighth article. Even that

1478
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 1: is very disingenuous because most of those dozens of people

1479
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: said they had no evidence of sexual assault. He said

1480
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 1: he discovered the bodies of two partially clothed teenage girls

1481
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,759
Speaker 1: and a home in Kibbutz be Are that bore signs

1482
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 1: of sexual violence. But footage taken biden is Raeli soldier

1483
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: who was in Beery on October seventh, which was viewed

1484
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: by leading community members in February and by The Times

1485
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: this month, shows the bodies of three female victims, fully

1486
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 1: clothed with no apparent signs of sexual violence, at home

1487
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: where many residents had believed that the assaults had occurred.

1488
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you you know what they say.

1489
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: They say that it's unclear if the metic was referring

1490
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: to the same scene. Residents said no other home in

1491
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 1: Beery were two teenage girls killed. They concluded from the

1492
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: video of the girls had not been sexually assaulted. A

1493
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: member of that Kibbutz said, quote, this story is false.

1494
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 1: By the way, Ryan had also gotten a statement from

1495
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: the Kibbutz, also saying this story is false. Of the

1496
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: Times backing up his reporting, of course, he doesn't don't

1497
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 1: give MA any credit, but put that aside. I also

1498
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: em I mean, you know, these are human beings who

1499
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: were slaughtered in a horrible and brutal way, two sisters

1500
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 1: alongside their mother. But one of the people at the

1501
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: Kabbutz says what happened to them was horrifying, but it

1502
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: was a great relief to find out they.

1503
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 6: Were not sexually assaulted.

1504
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: So think about what the Times did here to these

1505
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,960
Speaker 1: people and to their families. Like, on top of all

1506
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: the horror, you have to go with a now thoroughly

1507
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: discredited account claiming that they were raped and that there

1508
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:36,639
Speaker 1: was semen smeared on one of their backs and totally

1509
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: debunked and ispriven. And by the way, in that original report,

1510
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 1: screams without words is what it's called. Rather than take

1511
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 1: out that section, rather than retract the whole thing, which,

1512
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 1: based on all of the questions that have been raised

1513
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: on is what's really called for At this point, they

1514
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 1: kept that reporting in about the you know, semen smeared

1515
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 1: on her back and the partially clothed, etc. Which they

1516
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,759
Speaker 1: are now reporting is not true based on this evidence,

1517
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 1: and they just added this note in so they still

1518
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: have all the language there.

1519
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 6: And then they add in this note update.

1520
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: Newly released video viewed by the Time show the bodies

1521
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 1: of two teenage girls in kilbots be a refully closed,

1522
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: undercutting this account from an Israeli military paramedic who recovered

1523
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: bodies in multiple locations after the October seventh attack. It

1524
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,599
Speaker 1: was unclear if the paramedic was describing bodies he discovered elsewhere.

1525
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:23,519
Speaker 1: There is no indication that there are any other bodies

1526
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: elsewhere that.

1527
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 6: Could have fit this description.

1528
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: So it's just one more incident where The Times has

1529
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 1: found itself has created this incredible controversy for itself, and

1530
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, it really has gotten to that level of

1531
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 1: like WMD or the Caliphate podcast. And I saw one

1532
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 1: person who's been involved in you know, really digging into

1533
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: this story online saying it's quite noteworthy that the three

1534
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,919
Speaker 1: major scandals for The Times recently from a journalistic perspective,

1535
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: all had to do with reporting out of the Middle East.

1536
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 4: So I mean, yes, that this original time story the

1537
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 4: end steps piece on this. As you've mentioned, Crystal and

1538
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 4: other people have done work in the space too on

1539
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,560
Speaker 4: that particular screams without words a piece. I like the

1540
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:10,759
Speaker 4: way that Ryan puts it, which is that there's about

1541
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 4: a zero percent chance that there was no sexual violence

1542
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 4: on October seventh. There's like, it is overwhelmingly clear that there.

1543
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 5: Was some sexual violence.

1544
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 4: So to see this time story I think get absolutely

1545
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 4: ripped to shreds. It's like the byline problem is shocking,

1546
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 4: and it shouldn't be shocking, but it's something that happens

1547
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 4: across the board on a lot of stories. So this

1548
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 4: is it's kind of the tip of the iceberg as

1549
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 4: to corporate media doing that the byline. There were people

1550
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 4: at the Wall Street Journal who were former members of

1551
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 4: the IDF who were writing covering this stuff and it

1552
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 4: wasn't disclosed. Meanwhile, they are sneering at the standards of

1553
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 4: other publications, looking down at New Media US as though

1554
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:57,599
Speaker 4: we have no editorial standards, which is absurd given all

1555
01:16:57,640 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 4: of this and I say that as someone I like

1556
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 4: you said it. Chrysal ninety seven civilians were slaughtered at

1557
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 4: this commits. There were I think more than twenty hostages taken.

1558
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 4: I think it was close to thirty hostages were taken.

1559
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 4: Some of them are probably still in Gaza. This was

1560
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 4: a traumatized and absolutely devastated community of people. That was

1561
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 4: just the fact that so many people the way you

1562
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 4: put it, also about people being upset to and relieved

1563
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,919
Speaker 4: to learn that these daughters were not victims of sexual assault.

1564
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 4: They're turned into political pawns by people with partisan causes,

1565
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 4: and that's not journalism. Don't do it in the service

1566
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 4: of journalism. I don't do it period, but definitely don't

1567
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 4: do it in the service of journalism, which is a

1568
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 4: giant lie that just completely completely eradicates credibility for the

1569
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,679
Speaker 4: entire industry as a whole. Again, as a pro Israel person,

1570
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 4: if you are a pro Israel, you should be upset

1571
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 4: with this because it has undermined the credibility of the

1572
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 4: pro Israel position because now people are going to look

1573
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 4: at all of the reporting on it and have these

1574
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 4: lingering questions, how could you that story was, as you pointed, out.

1575
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 4: It was like a watershed piece of reporting is how

1576
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 4: it was treated. And so the people who are now

1577
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:22,560
Speaker 4: learning that there are questions about the story's credibility. That's

1578
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 4: lingers in your mind when you read the media going forward.

1579
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:28,439
Speaker 1: And the response from the Times was not, how did

1580
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: you know these incredibly inexperienced junior reporters get put on

1581
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: the story? How did they get so many pieces wrong?

1582
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 1: Where you have families who you have reached tru I mean,

1583
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 1: you have added to their pain and suffering. Who are

1584
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,560
Speaker 1: coming at you saying first of all, you lied to

1585
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 1: give this interview. Second of all, this isn't what happened.

1586
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: You know, here's video evidence, et cetera. Rob figuring out

1587
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: what the hell went wrong here. Instead, they went after

1588
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: the leakers and launched a whole leak investigation to figure

1589
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 1: out who was providing, you know, internal information to Ryan

1590
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 1: and other reporters. That was their response. And so, yeah,

1591
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 1: they had a partisan agenda. They wanted this story to

1592
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 1: come together in a specific way. They didn't want to show,

1593
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, a few isolated incidents. They wanted to be

1594
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:15,000
Speaker 1: able to paint this picture because this is what was

1595
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: being offered both by the US government, by the Israeli

1596
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 1: government of rapes systematically used as a weapon of war.

1597
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 6: And they basically found.

1598
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,799
Speaker 1: The facts or fit the facts to create that narrative.

1599
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: And it's just peace by piece been falling apart. But

1600
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, I always come back to it. I'm not

1601
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: sure it's again. She had never worked so bad. She

1602
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: didn't have a single byline before she gets picked up

1603
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: by the New York Times. Journalists spent their entire career

1604
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 1: winning a byline at the New York Times.

1605
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 6: How does this happen?

1606
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 5: Does not make sense.

1607
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 1: On such like the most sensitive issue you can imagine,

1608
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:52,759
Speaker 1: mind blowing.

1609
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 4: It's inexplicable, and it doesn't make a lack of sense.

1610
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,880
Speaker 4: Her career path does not make any sense whatsoever to

1611
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 4: be to sort of be a documentarian and then to

1612
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 4: be suddenly plucked to the New York Times as a

1613
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 4: reporter on the ground, right, you said, Crystal, Like people

1614
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 4: have to you know, sort of pay their dues in

1615
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 4: you know, like Middle Eastern bureaus, you know, doing the driest.

1616
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:22,200
Speaker 5: Copy like wire reports. Basically, so it's very very odd.

1617
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:22,679
Speaker 5: I think.

1618
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 4: Let alone, it's odd enough that the byline was there

1619
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 4: without any disclosures, but it's it's odd that that byline exists.

1620
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 1: Well, as you're noting, because I don't think I mentioned

1621
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 1: that she had previously served in the idea.

1622
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, in an intelligence unit. So in an intelligence unit

1623
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 4: and then randomly gets a job at the New York Times.

1624
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 6: Riddle me that one.

1625
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:43,520
Speaker 1: Guys, all right, we have another incredible use of journalistic

1626
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: resources coming at you from the Atlantic.

1627
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:47,799
Speaker 6: We can put this up on the screen that's.

1628
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: Got a lot of a lot of interest for reasons

1629
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 1: that will quickly become a parent. So headline here in

1630
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 1: the war at Stanford, I didn't know that college would

1631
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: be a factory of unreason by fo Baker some of

1632
01:20:58,600 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: New York Times reporter.

1633
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,879
Speaker 6: Heater Baker No way really, Oh oh yeah.

1634
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 1: His mom is also a journalist. So you know, he's

1635
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:09,719
Speaker 1: a sophomore at Stanford and gets this big cover story

1636
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: at the Atlantic. I'm sure it's fully on his merit, emily,

1637
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: and absolutely nothing else. So in any case, in this story,

1638
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: he says he spent five months reporting on basically any

1639
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 1: views of his fellow classmates that he felt he should

1640
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: hall monitor as being a little bit outside of the

1641
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 1: norm or the mainstream.

1642
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 6: Starts the story, I'm not.

1643
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: Even going to read this piece because I find it inappropriate.

1644
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 1: Starts the story by basically doxing this twenty three year

1645
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 1: old Stafford student that he goes to school with and

1646
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, calling out, like listing out his views and

1647
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 1: framing them, you know, as inappropriate. There certainly, I think

1648
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 1: outside of the mainstream, it's fair to say, but this

1649
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 1: is a you know, powerless twenty three year old. You

1650
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 1: would think that the Atlantic would have journalistic resources like

1651
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: better spent in other directions.

1652
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:02,759
Speaker 6: While there is this.

1653
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: Massive assault going on in Gaza that a majority of

1654
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: Biden voters and probably a majority of Stanford University students

1655
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: think is a genocide. You might want to focus on

1656
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 1: the powerful people that are involved in the policy making

1657
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,520
Speaker 1: versus these powerless students whose views you find to be uncomfortable.

1658
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: There was this one part of the story though that

1659
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: to me, Emily, it almost irritated me the most. I

1660
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:28,520
Speaker 1: think there are genuine, like privacy issues with this Tattletale

1661
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: Hall monitor putting this person's name in highlighting their views

1662
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,719
Speaker 1: first and foremost, like, I think that is inappropriate and

1663
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 1: incredibly unfortunate. Again, this is just one person, but in

1664
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 1: any case, he also writes, Elite universities attract a certain

1665
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 1: kind of student, the overachieving driver who's won all the

1666
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 1: right athletes for all the right activities. Is it such

1667
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,560
Speaker 1: a surprise that the kids who are trained in the

1668
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: constant pursuit of perfect scores think they have to look

1669
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 1: at the world like a series of multiple choice questions

1670
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,000
Speaker 1: with clearly right or wrong answers, Or that they think

1671
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,439
Speaker 1: they can gamify political cause in the same way they

1672
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 1: ace a stand test. Everyone knows that the only reliable

1673
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:04,439
Speaker 1: way to get into a school like Stanford is to

1674
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: be really good at looking really good. Now that they're here,

1675
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 1: students know that one easy way to keep looking good

1676
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 1: is to side with the majority of protesters and condemn Israel.

1677
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 1: So he smears this entire group of student protesters who

1678
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: are opposed to Israel's onslaught in Gaza, which un report

1679
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 1: has just called a genocide. I'll be breaking that down

1680
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,080
Speaker 1: in my monologue. He thinks he smears all of them

1681
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 1: as basically just like disingenuous drivers who are trying to

1682
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: be on the cool side of a popular cause. Rather

1683
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,680
Speaker 1: than saying, hey, maybe, just maybe they see these images

1684
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: of kids being murdered with weapons that our tax dollars

1685
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: are paying for.

1686
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 6: Perhaps they have a genuine.

1687
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: Issue with that, maybe that's like actually a moral problem

1688
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: for them. So it's just astonishing on every level. I mean,

1689
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 1: the NEPO baby part is always present.

1690
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 6: The fact that The.

1691
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 1: Atlantic again spent apparently five months of journalistic resources doing

1692
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 1: tattletale work on college kids and frame this is important

1693
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:05,600
Speaker 1: journalism in the context of everything that's going on, and

1694
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: the way that these kids were just sort of lumped

1695
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 1: together and our college students, I mean, they are mostly adults, right,

1696
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:16,440
Speaker 1: but college students lump together and smeared as having disingenuous

1697
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: motives and you know, being extremists, I think is just wrong.

1698
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 6: It's just wrong, and it's inappropriate.

1699
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 4: So here's a line on this piece of recess. I've

1700
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 4: watched many of my classmates treat death so cavalierly that

1701
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 4: they can protest as a pregame to a party.

1702
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:33,320
Speaker 5: And what's interesting about.

1703
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 4: That is, listen, not to like both sides things, but

1704
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 4: this is, as with any like extremely politically charged hot

1705
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 4: button issue, people on both sides are treating death very

1706
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 4: cavalierly on this question.

1707
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 5: You know, And that's that's something that you've talked about.

1708
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would.

1709
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:58,799
Speaker 1: I would argue that by fixating on what college students

1710
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: say or don't say in the middle of tens of

1711
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: thousands of people getting slaughtered, you tell me who's the

1712
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 1: one who's treating death cavalierly? Right, because you know, to

1713
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: spend that time and energy and you know, precious space

1714
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 1: in a very prominent elite magazine fixated on what basically

1715
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 1: powerless people are doing and saying and painting them all

1716
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 1: with this very broad brush, rather than you know, actually

1717
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:29,799
Speaker 1: challenging the powerful people who are running the Israel policy.

1718
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 1: You know, again, you tell me who's treating death more

1719
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:35,640
Speaker 1: cavalierly and who is you know, more interested in like

1720
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,599
Speaker 1: college debates than what is actually happening to people right

1721
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: now in Gaza, all of whom are one hundred percent

1722
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 1: of whom are suffering from, you know, on the verge

1723
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: of famine, ten children to day, starving to death, et cetera.

1724
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 4: Well, Stanford is also the home of the Hoover Institute, which,

1725
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 4: by the way, is the sort of home of a

1726
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 4: lot of the architects of the Iraq War. So it's

1727
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 4: you know, there are criticisms of the university system that

1728
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 4: I actually think are really important, and I do have

1729
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 4: a different perspective on this. I think it's I've actually

1730
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:05,680
Speaker 4: always found what happens on college campuses to be newsworthy

1731
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 4: and salient.

1732
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 5: I've reported on a lot of the.

1733
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 4: Stuff myself because I think what people were so caught

1734
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 4: off guard by everything that happened in twenty twenty. It's like, well,

1735
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:15,719
Speaker 4: if you were paying attention to some of these trends

1736
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:19,240
Speaker 4: on campuses, the public would have understood that young people

1737
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 4: have very different ideas than they think young people do,

1738
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:25,120
Speaker 4: and people have been shocked. For example, we're blaming TikTok

1739
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 4: for all of the anti Israel sentiment and the sort

1740
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 4: of disparate pro Palestine versus pro Israel sentiments that were

1741
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 4: going viral on TikTok after October seventh, And it's like, again,

1742
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 4: if you were paying attention to college campuses, this wouldn't

1743
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 4: have been surprising to you at all, and you wouldn't

1744
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 4: have blamed China. You would have understood that this is organic.

1745
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 4: And by the way, we know that it's not China

1746
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 4: that was manipulating this sentiment entirely because it was repeated

1747
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 4: on different social media platforms that are not controlled by

1748
01:26:55,439 --> 01:27:00,639
Speaker 4: China because young people are supporting Palestine on the questions,

1749
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 4: so I don't necessarily take issue with the concept of reporting.

1750
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 4: Like he talks about how people have had massusa's ripped

1751
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 4: from their doors at Stanford, and you know the quote

1752
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 4: that he has from his his section leader saying he

1753
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:18,160
Speaker 4: thinks Joe Biden should be dead. Someone should kill Joe Biden.

1754
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:22,160
Speaker 4: If that's true, that's pretty wild. And I think it's uh,

1755
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 4: you know, like messusas if people are rippingssusa's off people's doors,

1756
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 4: then you know, and Stanford isn't doing anything about it.

1757
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 5: That's insane.

1758
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:33,559
Speaker 4: But that's one of the crazy issues on this is

1759
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 4: how poorly college campuses have been able to defend their

1760
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 4: own like anti speech policies and then like that of

1761
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:47,599
Speaker 4: silence and suppressed conservative ideas and then tried to explain away,

1762
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 4: you know, punishing students who take issue with israell It's

1763
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 4: been a glaring incoherency and it's one of the I've

1764
01:27:57,560 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 4: talked to Ryan about this before. It's one of the

1765
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 4: issues where elite the polarization and elite opinion is unusual,

1766
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 4: where you have some very virulently pro Israel voices in academia,

1767
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 4: high profile academia positions like this is what Bill Ackman

1768
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 4: has basically been reacting to. And then you have some

1769
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 4: people in academia that are deeply pro Palestinian, and there's

1770
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 4: this weird clash happening on college campuses. Now I don't

1771
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 4: think so. I saw someone tweet this and say it

1772
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,839
Speaker 4: was ritually reported. I wouldn't call this story richly reported.

1773
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 6: I think that might have been as Dad. That's right

1774
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 6: in that he did tweat something to the fact.

1775
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: Well, let me just say that, I think you know,

1776
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 1: your nuanced perspective is well taken and appreciated, because certainly

1777
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: we talk here like about the pulling about young people

1778
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: and how their perspectives are different generationally. To me, I

1779
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: find that very relevant. Yeah, what one kid thinks about

1780
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 1: Joe Biden at Stanford when he has literally no power

1781
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 1: in the context of what is actually happening in terms

1782
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 1: of our foreign policy. Do I find that particularly like relevant,

1783
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:04,680
Speaker 1: certainly relevant enough to like dox him in a way

1784
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:06,720
Speaker 1: that could direct a lot of hate.

1785
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 6: And horror in his way.

1786
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 1: No, And to use that quote then to paint with

1787
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 1: a broad brush.

1788
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:13,360
Speaker 4: Well, did he know that that was being reported on

1789
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 4: when he said it, by the way, because that's another thing,

1790
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:16,639
Speaker 4: like if.

1791
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 1: You he very much disputes some of the quote unquote

1792
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 1: facts that are in the in there, including that you know,

1793
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: THEO Baker says all I move sections and apparently even

1794
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:27,639
Speaker 1: that he says, that's not why.

1795
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 6: He moved, et cetera.

1796
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 1: So he does dispute some of the way that he

1797
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 1: was characterized. But you know, I think what we've seen

1798
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: is if you had a similar piece reported about let's say,

1799
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: a crazy Trump supporter who says some QAnon insanity, and

1800
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: then that's used to say, and I think everybody at

1801
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 1: the Trump rally or everybody that's supporting Donald Trump, like

1802
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,679
Speaker 1: this is what's really going on with them, not picking

1803
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: would I object to that too? And that's what we

1804
01:29:57,200 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: don't do that, you know here, and we really to

1805
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 1: avoid these like you know, a man on the street

1806
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 1: type things where you find the craziest person and then

1807
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,599
Speaker 1: you use that to say everybody thinks this way and

1808
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: this is now should we look at pole Okay, how

1809
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 1: prevalent are q andon theories, What are the actual views

1810
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 1: of Trump supporters? What can we glean from the data

1811
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,680
Speaker 1: very different? And why are people coming to those conclusions,

1812
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 1: not smearing their intentions. So I try to be consistent

1813
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 1: in objecting to that form of quote unquote journalism, whether

1814
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,760
Speaker 1: it is with people who agree more with me ideologically

1815
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 1: or oppose me ideologically. So you're right that there is

1816
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 1: something important and relevant about what's happening on college campuses

1817
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: and the fervency, the fervent emotion that many young people

1818
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 1: see and have voiced and you know, come out and

1819
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: protested and engage in whatever activism they can figure out

1820
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,480
Speaker 1: with regard to that conflict. I'm not saying that's not important,

1821
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: but to you know, smear them, tag them all as

1822
01:30:57,160 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 1: extremists to engage in this like five month long journals

1823
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 1: stick odyssey in order to accomplish that goal that I

1824
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 1: find to be disgusting well.

1825
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 4: And to be congratulated for like a journalistic accomplishment. We

1826
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:10,519
Speaker 4: don't need to not pick on the show like and

1827
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 4: find someone throw a microphone in their face and have

1828
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 4: them say something crazy, because.

1829
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 5: We have Sager.

1830
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 4: That's why he's like the crazy perspective of like your

1831
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 4: cousin on the street, like spend ten minutes every day

1832
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 4: staring right into the sun when.

1833
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 5: You wake up. Sorry, Okay, don't drink booze.

1834
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 1: Let's transition into what mister Rogan is thinking about this conflict,

1835
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 1: because you know, to the point of whether the views

1836
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: of these college students are extremeor mainstream. At this point,

1837
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 1: when you have a majority of Joe Biden voter saying

1838
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 1: this is a genocide, when you have the International Criminal

1839
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: Court of Justice saying that's plausible, when you have a

1840
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:56,680
Speaker 1: new UN report saying there's reasonable grounds to believe. And

1841
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: now you can add, oh, you have Alex Jones saying

1842
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 1: it's a genisid I believe, can't someone's has said similar things.

1843
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: AOC has now come out and said the same. You

1844
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:07,920
Speaker 1: can add to that growing list of voices Joe Rogan,

1845
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 1: who made.

1846
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:10,400
Speaker 6: Some very interesting comments on his podcast.

1847
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:12,479
Speaker 14: Let's take a listen, even in the right, like look

1848
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 14: what's going on with Candice Owns and Ben Shapiro, Like

1849
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 14: what did she say? I want to know what was

1850
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:21,919
Speaker 14: what she was fired for? Because was it criticism of Israel?

1851
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 3: Was it?

1852
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 14: I mean, did she show that Edward Snowden video that

1853
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:28,479
Speaker 14: he put up on Twitter that shows them Jrome bombing

1854
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,599
Speaker 14: those kids? That are those men, I should say, unarmed

1855
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 14: people that were walking towards the rubble that clearly weren't

1856
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:37,320
Speaker 14: causing any danger to anybody.

1857
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, just bombed them, yeh know, it's your duty.

1858
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 5: It's just like for Biden or whoever you like, you're

1859
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 5: supposed to cover up for them because things.

1860
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 14: Like they're always saying they're only targeting Hamas and everybody

1861
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 14: else is a casualty. Well, if those guys are just

1862
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 14: unarmed civilians and they're walking alone, that's what they appear

1863
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:57,559
Speaker 14: to be, Dresden and you just blast them from the

1864
01:32:57,600 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 14: sky with robots.

1865
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 6: This is that of war.

1866
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, this is insane and no one knows what to

1867
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 14: think now, because if you can't talk about that, if

1868
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,560
Speaker 14: you can't say that's real, then you're saying that genocide

1869
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 14: is okay as long as we're doing it, And that.

1870
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 3: Is what we're saying.

1871
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 14: And if you're saying that from a perspective of someone

1872
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 14: who literally went through the Holocaust or your your people,

1873
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 14: your tribe went through the fucking Holocaust, and now you're willing.

1874
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 6: To do it, I hope the irony is not lost

1875
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 6: on you.

1876
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 3: It's so nuts.

1877
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 14: It's so hard to imagine that someone where a culture,

1878
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 14: like a country was like officially founded in what forty seven,

1879
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 14: forty eight, okay, officially founded. So that's so recent, and

1880
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 14: you guys are willing to do what was done to

1881
01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 14: you that led you to believe that you need to

1882
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:50,559
Speaker 14: start your own country. You're willing to do that, at

1883
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 14: least in a small scale in Gaza, like there's nothing

1884
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 14: left if you see the videos, let's let's see some

1885
01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 14: recent footage of Gaza.

1886
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 1: So some really pointed the Atlantic would say those comments

1887
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 1: were extremist.

1888
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:06,560
Speaker 5: Greg greg Abot would say antisemitic.

1889
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: There you go many and apparently Matt Miller would as

1890
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:12,760
Speaker 1: well talk about that also in my monologue, but I

1891
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,200
Speaker 1: mean he really, he really goes in. Apparently that video

1892
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 1: that Al Jazeera obtained, the drone footage of them striking

1893
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 1: and killing these four unarmed civilians who are just walking

1894
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 1: along in con Unis.

1895
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's horrible to watch.

1896
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,800
Speaker 1: We played just a little bit of it, but if

1897
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 1: you do watch the whole thing, you know, you see

1898
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 1: the initial drone strike, You see one of them at

1899
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 1: least like crawling after being hit initially wounded.

1900
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:42,800
Speaker 6: And then hit again, and all of them killed.

1901
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 1: And you know, you can't butt hamas that, you can't,

1902
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 1: Oh human shield that it's just so naked, and I

1903
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:50,840
Speaker 1: think one of the things that people have reacted to

1904
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: so strongly, because I've been rapping trying to wrap my

1905
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 1: head emily around why this video. This seems to have

1906
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 1: been the thing for Alex Jones, that's what he quote tweeted.

1907
01:34:58,160 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: It seems to have been, you know, the thing for

1908
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:02,920
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, and just judging by the tenor of the

1909
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 1: commentary and the shift, you know, AOC then comes out

1910
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 1: shortly thereafter. I also calls it a genocide. I've been

1911
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 1: trying to wrap my head around what it was about

1912
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 1: this video because we've seen so many horrors play out

1913
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 1: in front of our eyes, and I think it's the

1914
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 1: fact that all the typical justifications are null. You can't,

1915
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 1: like I said, you can't, but hamas it.

1916
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 6: You can't.

1917
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: There's a tunnel there, you can't. You know, it's anti

1918
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:29,679
Speaker 1: semitic to say this. All the normal justifications are they're

1919
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,680
Speaker 1: not human shields are kind of null and void, and

1920
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 1: then there's something so nightmarish and terrifying. Alex Stroen is

1921
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 1: called a robotic mass genocide. I believe about the fact

1922
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:44,560
Speaker 1: that they're walking along totally unawares and then out of

1923
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:49,640
Speaker 1: the sky boom, it's over. And also the David and

1924
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: golithe nature of that, I mean, they're unarmed, they have

1925
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,880
Speaker 1: nothing right and everything around them in the video too,

1926
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:57,720
Speaker 1: is complete rubble, as Rogan is saying, right there, look

1927
01:35:57,720 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 1: at gods, there's nothing left his guys.

1928
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 6: It's like Dresden.

1929
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 1: They're completely unarmed, they're completely vulnerable. And meanwhile Israel has

1930
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: this incredibly high tech killing technology, and that's what they're

1931
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 1: up against. And there's something about that video that marked

1932
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 1: a real turning point for the way a lot of

1933
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 1: people were viewing this conflict.

1934
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:21,519
Speaker 4: So Alections apparently has also been calling Rabbi Shmooley the

1935
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:22,519
Speaker 4: butt plug Rabbi.

1936
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 6: They had a debate. He did, Yes, he did?

1937
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 5: Okay, good? Interesting enough.

1938
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 4: Well, the Rogan clip to me is fascinating because he

1939
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 4: goes back and says, listen, this is really recent history,

1940
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 4: like the Holocaust is really recent history in the living

1941
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:44,320
Speaker 4: memory of many people. That the founding of modern Israel

1942
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 4: comes in nineteen forty eight, and what also happens there

1943
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:50,639
Speaker 4: is Brian and I talked about this a little bit yesterday,

1944
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 4: But the new definitions are the formal international agreement on

1945
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:59,720
Speaker 4: what the definition of genocide is, because basically, the UN

1946
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 4: come together after World War Two and says we need

1947
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 4: to prevent Dresden, we need to prevent the Holocaust, we

1948
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 4: need to you know, all of that, and that living

1949
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 4: memory is also why you know, you see net Yahoo

1950
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:17,760
Speaker 4: and other leaders in Israel, and even by the way,

1951
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:24,760
Speaker 4: some well intentioned liberal Israelis feel the need to turn

1952
01:37:25,280 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 4: Gaza into a quote, parking lot, because those threats remain

1953
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 4: so ingrained in the minds, and that's what Rogan is

1954
01:37:33,160 --> 01:37:35,559
Speaker 4: reacting to and saying it's strange, it's a it's a

1955
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 4: strange like dissonance between you know, saying we want to

1956
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 4: prevent another Holocaust and then seeing the destruction of Gaza

1957
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 4: and calling for the destruction of Gaza, calling for it

1958
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:48,519
Speaker 4: in the name of stopping another Holocaust be turned into

1959
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 4: a parking lot. And I understand, you know why, that's

1960
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 4: why that hits home.

1961
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:56,080
Speaker 5: With people like Joe Rogan.

1962
01:37:56,200 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 4: I completely understand the perspective of UH being grown out

1963
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 4: by the drone attacks and the sort of like it is,

1964
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:08,120
Speaker 4: this is a different kind like since we have since

1965
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:08,760
Speaker 4: World War Two.

1966
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:10,679
Speaker 5: This is a new.

1967
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 4: Kind of conflict, and I don't think the net and

1968
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:17,320
Speaker 4: Yahoos and the Joe Biden's of the world were prepared

1969
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 4: for how the public was going to react to it.

1970
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,920
Speaker 4: It's similar to other conflicts like high like urban warfare,

1971
01:38:23,960 --> 01:38:28,479
Speaker 4: but Syria other places, but it's it's different, it's completely different.

1972
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:32,160
Speaker 4: And I think they underestimated where the public would be

1973
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 4: when watching this, because I mean, it's just these videos

1974
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 4: are tough.

1975
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it is sort of There are quotes

1976
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,920
Speaker 1: from the early Zionists, and I think it's very much

1977
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:49,599
Speaker 1: illustrated in not just the Israeli response here, but in

1978
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, wars since they're founding basically this notion of

1979
01:38:54,920 --> 01:38:57,800
Speaker 1: because of the whoors that they were subjected to, and

1980
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:00,320
Speaker 1: this idea that they're quote unquote in a tough neighborhood.

1981
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 1: Part of why they go in with such overwhelming you

1982
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 1: know force and commit these ores and war crimes and

1983
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, totally annihilate all.

1984
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:13,839
Speaker 6: Of Gaza is this idea.

1985
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:17,640
Speaker 1: But we have to demonstrate that actually were the biggest assholes,

1986
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:20,640
Speaker 1: that we are just as tough, tougher.

1987
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 6: And badder than anyone else.

1988
01:39:23,479 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 1: And they talk openly about you know, restoring deterrence and

1989
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 1: that's code for basically what I said, we need to

1990
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 1: put on display that we can be the brutal barbarians

1991
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:38,800
Speaker 1: just as much as anyone else. And so you know,

1992
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:43,920
Speaker 1: it is a deep horror and deep irony that the

1993
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,600
Speaker 1: people who you know suffer through the Holocaust, and you know,

1994
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,640
Speaker 1: the state that is founded out of, you know, the

1995
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:53,760
Speaker 1: ashes of World War two and the holocausts that then

1996
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 1: would turn around and repeat some of the same ideologies

1997
01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:01,240
Speaker 1: some of you know Rogan calls like on a small scale,

1998
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 1: and obviously the death count isn't approaching on what the

1999
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 1: Holocaust is, but it is there is a similar like

2000
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:11,800
Speaker 1: quest towards annihilation. There is a similar I mean, there's

2001
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:15,759
Speaker 1: a Jewish supremacist ideology here. So I think his comments

2002
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 1: are entirely appropriate. In another way, it's not. It shouldn't

2003
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 1: be surprising because you see this on a human level too,

2004
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: people who were victims of abuse and then they turn

2005
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: around and become the abusers. I mean, that is a

2006
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:30,680
Speaker 1: common pattern that plays out psychologically.

2007
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 6: In human life.

2008
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:34,559
Speaker 1: So obviously, you know, for Rogan, who's kind of like

2009
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, Limus tests from normy opinion, you know, it's

2010
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:41,840
Speaker 1: not a particular ide logue in any direction to have

2011
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:44,880
Speaker 1: come to this conclusion, and again like that it was

2012
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:47,680
Speaker 1: this video that seems to have led him there. I

2013
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:50,680
Speaker 1: just found that very interesting, very noworthy, And obviously he's

2014
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,479
Speaker 1: very influential, very impactful, So in and of itself it

2015
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 1: matters a lot.

2016
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:56,000
Speaker 4: When I was going to say, just another kind of

2017
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:59,599
Speaker 4: wake up call, probably for Biden and Yahoo and people

2018
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,160
Speaker 4: like Ted Cruz who sat and respectfully talked to us

2019
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:04,960
Speaker 4: about this, would be that Joe Rogan also isn't going

2020
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:10,799
Speaker 4: to deny that Hamas and like actual Islamic extremism isn't

2021
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 4: genocidal towards Jews, it of course is, and he's not

2022
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:17,000
Speaker 4: going to He's not the kind of person that's going

2023
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,720
Speaker 4: to make the Judith Butler argument about Hamas being a

2024
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,599
Speaker 4: resistance organ a part of the global resistance whatever. He's

2025
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 4: not that kind of person, like you said, crysl his

2026
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 4: normy opinion on all of this. And so that's where

2027
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:34,400
Speaker 4: this becomes. And even I'm going to mention this Chris

2028
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 4: Rufo reacted to I've made a little joke about Greg

2029
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,560
Speaker 4: Abbott earlier in this segment. That's because Greg Abbott instructed

2030
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 4: universities in Texas to update their speech policies to ban

2031
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:48,639
Speaker 4: anti Semitic speech, and Chris Rufo, obviously a conservative, obviously

2032
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 4: pro Israel, and other kind of conservatives on the new

2033
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 4: right like Sager and people like myself who have objected

2034
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:59,680
Speaker 4: to the new speech policing since October seventh on the

2035
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 4: ground that it's sort of hypocritical from people like both

2036
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 4: wrong and hypocritical from people like Greg Abbott. Chris Ruffer

2037
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:09,200
Speaker 4: reacted and said, what's the difference between this and banning

2038
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:13,960
Speaker 4: anti black speech or anti white speech. It's not how

2039
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,760
Speaker 4: we do things in this country, and that has been

2040
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 4: again wildly underestimated by people like Greg Abbott, who probably

2041
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 4: had no idea or had no nobody in his circles

2042
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:28,320
Speaker 4: was like, you're going to upset people like a Chris Rufo,

2043
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 4: like others in those circles that take issue with this.

2044
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 4: They just they don't have awareness that it really rankles

2045
01:42:36,320 --> 01:42:37,839
Speaker 4: people because it's a bubble.

2046
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it is a bubble all the way around.

2047
01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:42,600
Speaker 1: And we have some polling that shows you also the

2048
01:42:42,880 --> 01:42:44,760
Speaker 1: public shift that I think speaks to some of the

2049
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:47,559
Speaker 1: points that you're making here. So these are the overall

2050
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:50,920
Speaker 1: numbers and you can see the difference between November twenty

2051
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,519
Speaker 1: twenty three, so we're talking about shortly after October seventh

2052
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 1: versus now, in November, a majority fifty percent of Americans

2053
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:02,639
Speaker 1: approved of Israeli military action in Gaza versus forty five

2054
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 1: percent who disapproves. So it's pretty closely split, but you've

2055
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:09,719
Speaker 1: got a majority in favor. Now totally different, only thirty

2056
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 1: six percent approve, fifty five percent disapprove.

2057
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:15,000
Speaker 6: It's interesting to me in these.

2058
01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 1: Polls, the no opinion number actually goes up in all

2059
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:20,400
Speaker 1: of these poles. I'm about to show you just kind

2060
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:22,840
Speaker 1: of in that as a conflict has gone on, there

2061
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 1: are more people who are moving from that approval to

2062
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:27,120
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, I don't have an opinion,

2063
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:29,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about this anymore, which you'd

2064
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:31,720
Speaker 1: see some in the discourse online where people who were

2065
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 1: previously like staunch defenders have just kind of gone quiet.

2066
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:37,120
Speaker 1: I think we have additional polling we can put up,

2067
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 1: don't we guys that has the partisan breakdown here, because

2068
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:44,240
Speaker 1: the way that Democrats have moved has been interesting. So

2069
01:43:44,320 --> 01:43:47,439
Speaker 1: here we've got an indication of how closely people have

2070
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:51,080
Speaker 1: been paying to the conflict and what their views are

2071
01:43:51,160 --> 01:43:53,599
Speaker 1: based on whether they say they're following very closely or not.

2072
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:57,880
Speaker 1: Those who are following very closely fifty five percent disapprove.

2073
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 1: Those who are following some closely fifty six percent disapprove.

2074
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:04,400
Speaker 1: Those who are not following closely fifty four percent.

2075
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:06,120
Speaker 6: Disapprove.

2076
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: The numbers in terms of approve are highest among those

2077
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 1: who are following very closely. So there's a bit of

2078
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:15,320
Speaker 1: an indication here. It's not like a huge shift depending

2079
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:17,679
Speaker 1: on the biggest difference you see is just the number

2080
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: of people who are offering no opinion and then put

2081
01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:22,240
Speaker 1: the next one up on the screen. Guys, this is

2082
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:26,120
Speaker 1: the partisan breakdown that I was mentioning. So we'll start

2083
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 1: with the Republicans relevant to the Chris Rufo and Texas discussion.

2084
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:35,080
Speaker 1: So back in November, seventy one percent of Republicans say yes,

2085
01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:36,599
Speaker 1: I approve of this military action.

2086
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:38,519
Speaker 6: Only twenty three percent say no, I do not.

2087
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:42,200
Speaker 1: Now both of those numbers have shifted. Sixty four percent

2088
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 1: say they approve. That's still a large number, but thirty

2089
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:48,200
Speaker 1: percent is a significant minority who now say they disapprove.

2090
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:53,519
Speaker 1: Independence big movement here. So it was split basically fifty

2091
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:56,760
Speaker 1: to fifty forty seven approved, forty eight disapprove. Now you

2092
01:44:56,920 --> 01:45:01,120
Speaker 1: only have twenty nine percent of Independence who approve, sixty

2093
01:45:01,160 --> 01:45:04,559
Speaker 1: percent disapprove, and the Democratic numbers are just overwhelming. So

2094
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:07,080
Speaker 1: you've always had a majority of Democrats who disapproved.

2095
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:08,640
Speaker 6: Now that number.

2096
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: Has shot up to seventy five percent and only eighteen

2097
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:15,760
Speaker 1: percent say that they approve, And once again you have

2098
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:18,360
Speaker 1: an increase in the number who are like, no opinion,

2099
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 1: count me out. I don't want to talk about this,

2100
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:22,960
Speaker 1: let's just move on, which I did find noteworthy, given

2101
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:24,960
Speaker 1: that you would think that as the conflict goes on,

2102
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:26,960
Speaker 1: where people form an opinion, but it actually has been

2103
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 1: the opposite here. I read into that people who previously

2104
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:31,640
Speaker 1: were on the approved side that are now like, I

2105
01:45:31,640 --> 01:45:33,519
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm just going to say no opinion.

2106
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:35,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right. But this is a huge

2107
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 4: blind spot. This isn't the same. The public is not

2108
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:39,519
Speaker 4: reacting to this in the same way that the public

2109
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:44,080
Speaker 4: has reacted to other conflicts, frankly, in Gaza, in Israel.

2110
01:45:44,200 --> 01:45:47,160
Speaker 4: It's just completely different this time around, and people were

2111
01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 4: unprepared for that.

2112
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:52,479
Speaker 6: Yeah. Absolutely, all right, Chris, Well.

2113
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:53,719
Speaker 5: I'm excited to hear your monologue.

2114
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:55,839
Speaker 1: What have you got for us today, Well Atlantic Magazine

2115
01:45:55,880 --> 01:45:59,400
Speaker 1: was dedicating months worth of journalistic resources to investigating whether

2116
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:03,400
Speaker 1: powerless college kids have opinions slightly outside of mainstream acceptability.

2117
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: The UN Special Rappertoire for Human Rights in Palestine was

2118
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:09,320
Speaker 1: engaged in what one might reasonably say was a slightly

2119
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 1: more pressing endeavor, reporting on whether Israel is in fact

2120
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:17,120
Speaker 1: committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Here is Francesca Albanies

2121
01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:18,120
Speaker 1: explaining her.

2122
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:23,799
Speaker 15: Task following nearly six months of unrelenting Israelia Sultan occupied Gaza.

2123
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:27,960
Speaker 15: It is my solemn duty to report on the worst

2124
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 15: of what humanity is capable of, and to present my

2125
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:39,240
Speaker 15: finding the anatomy of a genocide. History teaches us that

2126
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:43,600
Speaker 15: genocide is a process, not a single act. It starts

2127
01:46:43,760 --> 01:46:47,120
Speaker 15: with the dehumanization of a group as ada and the

2128
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:51,200
Speaker 15: denial of that group's humanity, and ends with the destruction

2129
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 15: of the group in all or in part. The dehumanization

2130
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 15: of Palestinians as the group as a group is the

2131
01:46:58,600 --> 01:47:04,600
Speaker 15: whole mark of their history of ethnic lensing, dispossession, and apartheid.

2132
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:11,080
Speaker 15: In the words of Edward's Eyde, Palestinians were made orphans

2133
01:47:11,080 --> 01:47:13,680
Speaker 15: of a homeland by the creation of the State of

2134
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:17,840
Speaker 15: Israel and its continuous policies intended to there is their

2135
01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 15: presence from their land. Genocide is defining international law as

2136
01:47:24,479 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 15: specific sets of acts committed with intent to destroy, in

2137
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:33,280
Speaker 15: whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group.

2138
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:35,760
Speaker 3: As such, it.

2139
01:47:35,680 --> 01:47:39,880
Speaker 15: Is often referred to as the crime of crimes due

2140
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:42,719
Speaker 15: to its complexity and because of the challenge of proving

2141
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 15: the specific intent as the Convention requires. And yet this

2142
01:47:48,360 --> 01:47:51,040
Speaker 15: complexity is not about the creation of a hierarchy among

2143
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:55,200
Speaker 15: atrocity crimes. It's rather a reflection of a different nature

2144
01:47:55,479 --> 01:48:01,400
Speaker 15: and scale. The height and th threshold for intent, namely

2145
01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:04,320
Speaker 15: to destroy a group, was prescribed by Article two of

2146
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:10,800
Speaker 15: the Genocide Convention must be proven directly or inferred from

2147
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:15,960
Speaker 15: facts which admit of no other reasonable inference. But when

2148
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 15: genocidal intent is so conspicuous, so ostentatious, as it is

2149
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:27,080
Speaker 15: in Gaza, we cannot avert our eyes. We must confront genocide,

2150
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:30,639
Speaker 15: we must prevent it, and we must punish it.

2151
01:48:30,920 --> 01:48:31,920
Speaker 6: I hope you really took that.

2152
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,680
Speaker 1: In here we have Albaniz She is a human rights

2153
01:48:34,760 --> 01:48:38,560
Speaker 1: lawyer hired by the UN Human Rights Counsel to provide analysis.

2154
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 1: She is telling them, in no uncertain terms that there

2155
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: are quote reasonable grounds to believe that Israel is in

2156
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:49,320
Speaker 1: fact committing genocide. The viewpoint, maligned as fringe and hysterical

2157
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 1: by the US media, is now finding widespread validation among

2158
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:56,800
Speaker 1: everyone from un hired experts to the International Court of Justice,

2159
01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,160
Speaker 1: to the majority of Biden twenty twenty voters, to cultural

2160
01:48:59,160 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 1: figures like O goodness, we showed you earlier. And as

2161
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:06,599
Speaker 1: time passes an awareness of what has already unfolded seeps in.

2162
01:49:07,080 --> 01:49:10,400
Speaker 1: The truth is only going to become more undeniable, which

2163
01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:14,040
Speaker 1: is why when questioned about this report, US State Department

2164
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:17,759
Speaker 1: spokesperson Matt Miller reacted in the most predictable way possible.

2165
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,719
Speaker 1: Rather than engaging with the compelling facts of the report,

2166
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 1: he smeared its author as an anti sentmite.

2167
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:25,600
Speaker 16: Let me ask you have you did you see or

2168
01:49:25,640 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 16: read the report made by Francisca alban As yesterday in

2169
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:33,759
Speaker 16: Geneva where she cited where she actually what she showed

2170
01:49:33,880 --> 01:49:37,120
Speaker 16: was irrefutable, as far as he's concerned, a refutable evidence

2171
01:49:37,160 --> 01:49:40,320
Speaker 16: that is well engaged in genocide. Did you see the report?

2172
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 16: What is your comment?

2173
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 17: I did see the report?

2174
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:43,400
Speaker 5: Let me say a couple things about it.

2175
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:50,160
Speaker 17: First, we have long, for long standing, for a long

2176
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:53,280
Speaker 17: standing period of time, opposed the mandate of this special Rapperteur,

2177
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:57,160
Speaker 17: which we believe is not productive. And when it comes

2178
01:49:57,200 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 17: to the individual who holds that position, I can't help

2179
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 17: but note history of anti Sybmitic comments that she has

2180
01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:05,599
Speaker 17: made that have.

2181
01:50:05,560 --> 01:50:08,560
Speaker 16: Been reported and made anti Semitic comments.

2182
01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:12,240
Speaker 17: She has and comments she made in December that appeared

2183
01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:14,560
Speaker 17: to add justify the attacks of October seventh, So I

2184
01:50:14,600 --> 01:50:17,080
Speaker 17: think it's important to take that into account.

2185
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:18,760
Speaker 3: But with respect to.

2186
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:23,200
Speaker 17: The report itself, we have made clear that we believe

2187
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:26,120
Speaker 17: that allegations of genocide are unfounded. But at the same time,

2188
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:29,759
Speaker 17: we have are deeply concerned by the number of civilian

2189
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 17: casualties in Gaza, and that's why we have pressed the

2190
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:38,120
Speaker 17: government of Israel on multiple occasions to everything it can

2191
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:39,759
Speaker 17: to minimize those civilian casualties.

2192
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:42,200
Speaker 16: Yeah, well, she's been getting a lot of the death

2193
01:50:42,240 --> 01:50:44,920
Speaker 16: threats and other threats and so on because people think

2194
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:46,840
Speaker 16: she made anti Semitic comments.

2195
01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 3: That's on.

2196
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,960
Speaker 17: Let me just go, Oh, can't make a comment like

2197
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:53,280
Speaker 17: that without letting obviously, death threats against anyone are inappropriate.

2198
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:58,160
Speaker 1: Of course, Francesca Albanize has not made anti Semitic comments.

2199
01:50:58,160 --> 01:50:59,160
Speaker 6: It's a baseless smear.

2200
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:01,760
Speaker 1: She has, though, and critical of Israel, and is now

2201
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 1: offering compelling evidence and analysis of grave crimes which directly

2202
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:10,280
Speaker 1: implicate the United States and Matt Miller himself. His nasty

2203
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:13,599
Speaker 1: response there is an indication of how significant this report

2204
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 1: actually is. It's especially impactful for three key reasons. First

2205
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:20,439
Speaker 1: because of the clarity and analytical precision with which it

2206
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 1: is written. Second because, as a report by UN hire

2207
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: and expert delivered for the benefit of that body, it

2208
01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:29,200
Speaker 1: may carry special weight with the International Court of Justice

2209
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:32,760
Speaker 1: itself a UN body. And finally, because it calls for

2210
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:36,080
Speaker 1: specific actions to be taken by UN member states, including

2211
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:39,639
Speaker 1: or perhaps especially, the United States of America. Now, let's

2212
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:41,519
Speaker 1: start with some of the details from the report which

2213
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:45,360
Speaker 1: led Albanies to her dramatic conclusion. She identifies three genocidal

2214
01:51:45,400 --> 01:51:48,280
Speaker 1: acts as defined by the Genocide Convention. Number one killing

2215
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:51,080
Speaker 1: members of the group, Number two causing serious bodily or

2216
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 1: mental harm to members of the group, and number three

2217
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:56,680
Speaker 1: deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to

2218
01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:59,759
Speaker 1: bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

2219
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:02,960
Speaker 1: now as evidence of these acts. She cites everything from

2220
01:52:03,040 --> 01:52:05,559
Speaker 1: the tonnage of explosives used in just the first several

2221
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:09,360
Speaker 1: months of the onslaught the equivalent of two nuclear bombs,

2222
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:12,679
Speaker 1: to the lifelong trauma those who survive will no doubt

2223
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:17,000
Speaker 1: struggle with after seeing every aspect of their civilian lives destroyed,

2224
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 1: and the siege which is causing ten children to starve

2225
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 1: to death every day. She writes in the report, quote,

2226
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:27,519
Speaker 1: Gaza has been completely sacked. Israel's relentless targeting of all

2227
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:30,280
Speaker 1: means a basic survival has compromised the ability of palace

2228
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:33,480
Speaker 1: means in Gaza to live on that land. This engineered

2229
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:37,479
Speaker 1: collapse of life sustaining infrastructure corresponds to these stated intentions

2230
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:40,599
Speaker 1: to make Gaza quote permanently impossible to live in where

2231
01:52:40,600 --> 01:52:44,480
Speaker 1: no human being can exist. She also, of course, critically

2232
01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:48,280
Speaker 1: spends quite a bit of time on intent. The mensrea

2233
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: or mental state required to prove genocide includes both a

2234
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:54,799
Speaker 1: general intent to commit the acts and a specific intent

2235
01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:57,640
Speaker 1: to eliminate a group in whole or in part. This

2236
01:52:57,680 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 1: would be the now somewhat infamous Dolls. Here is a

2237
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 1: portion of what Albanese writes with regard to how intent

2238
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,400
Speaker 1: may be established and why she believes that intent has

2239
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:10,880
Speaker 1: been demonstrated with regards to Israel in a uniquely clear

2240
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:14,560
Speaker 1: cut way. Quote, the nature and scale of the atrocities,

2241
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: if demonstrably capable of achieving a genocidal outcome, are strong

2242
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:19,400
Speaker 1: evidence of intent.

2243
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:21,240
Speaker 6: The words of.

2244
01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:25,160
Speaker 1: State authorities, including dehumanizing language, combined with acts, are considered

2245
01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:29,680
Speaker 1: a circumstantial basis from which intent can be inferred. Dehumanization

2246
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:34,160
Speaker 1: can be understood as foundational to the process of genocide.

2247
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:37,080
Speaker 1: Evidence of context may help determine the intent and must

2248
01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:40,600
Speaker 1: be considered with the actual content conduct. Intent should be

2249
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:43,479
Speaker 1: evident above all from words and deeds and patterns of

2250
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:47,759
Speaker 1: purposeful action, such that no other inference can be reasonably drawn.

2251
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:51,440
Speaker 1: Now in the latest Gaza assault, direct evidence of genocidal

2252
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:56,000
Speaker 1: intent is uniquely present. Vitriolic genocidal rhetoric has painted the

2253
01:53:56,040 --> 01:53:59,600
Speaker 1: whole population as the enemy to be eliminated and forcibly displaced.

2254
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:03,120
Speaker 1: Eye ranking Israeli officials with command authority have issued harrowing

2255
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:07,360
Speaker 1: public statements evincing genocidal intent. She then proceeds to list

2256
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:10,920
Speaker 1: a selection of such harrowing public statements, many of which

2257
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 1: you will probably already be familiar, and which taken together,

2258
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:18,400
Speaker 1: paid an undeniable portrait of dehumanization and intention to annihilate,

2259
01:54:18,720 --> 01:54:22,920
Speaker 1: coming from every level of government and echoing throughout society.

2260
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:26,000
Speaker 1: For anyone who has acquainted themselves with the South African

2261
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:28,599
Speaker 1: filing against Israel, the facts and utterances offered in these

2262
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:30,559
Speaker 1: sections will likely be pretty familiar.

2263
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:31,479
Speaker 6: But there were two.

2264
01:54:31,439 --> 01:54:35,240
Speaker 1: Areas in which I thought Albanese's report was particularly illuminating. First,

2265
01:54:35,600 --> 01:54:38,800
Speaker 1: she systematically exposed the way that Israel's perverted the language

2266
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:43,320
Speaker 1: of international humanitarian law in order to justify crimes against humanity.

2267
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:46,280
Speaker 1: Albani's writes that Israel's use this jarkin to transform all

2268
01:54:46,320 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 1: civilians into human shields who can be murdered at will,

2269
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 1: all civilian infrastructure into legitimate military targets. Quote After October seventh,

2270
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:58,280
Speaker 1: this macro characterization of Gaza civilians as a population of

2271
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:02,360
Speaker 1: human shields has reached unprecedented levels, with Israel's top ranking

2272
01:55:02,360 --> 01:55:07,200
Speaker 1: political and military leaders consistently framing civilians as either Hamas operatives, accomplices,

2273
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:10,680
Speaker 1: or human shields among whom Hamas is embedded. In November,

2274
01:55:10,760 --> 01:55:13,520
Speaker 1: Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs defined the resonance of the

2275
01:55:13,560 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 1: Gaza strip as human shields and accused Hamas of using

2276
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,480
Speaker 1: the civilian population as human shields. The Ministry defines armed

2277
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:23,320
Speaker 1: groups fighting from urban areas as deliberately embedded in the

2278
01:55:23,320 --> 01:55:25,839
Speaker 1: population to such an extent that it cannot be concluded

2279
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:29,120
Speaker 1: from the mere fact that seeming civilians or civilian objects

2280
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 1: have been targeted that an attack was unlawful. Now, two

2281
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:35,760
Speaker 1: rhetorical elementary rights of this key legal policy document indicate

2282
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 1: the intention to transform the entire Gaza population and its

2283
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:44,280
Speaker 1: infrastructures of life into a legitimate targetable shield. The use

2284
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:47,120
Speaker 1: of the all encompassing the combined with the quotation marks

2285
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 1: to qualify civilians and civilian objects. Israel has thus sought

2286
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:56,440
Speaker 1: to camouflage genocidal intent with humanitarian law jargon. Another particular

2287
01:55:56,480 --> 01:55:59,680
Speaker 1: strength of this report is how Albanese acknowledges the context

2288
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:02,880
Speaker 1: of this process of genocide, arguing that since the birth

2289
01:56:02,920 --> 01:56:05,760
Speaker 1: of the Zius settler colonial project, the groundwork has been

2290
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:09,800
Speaker 1: laid for exactly this current outcome of annihilation. That's a

2291
01:56:09,880 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: radical departure from the liberal Zionis claim that Israel simply

2292
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:14,720
Speaker 1: lost its way under BB in the current horror or

2293
01:56:14,800 --> 01:56:17,000
Speaker 1: due to a few bad apples, rather than being the

2294
01:56:17,080 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: logical outgrowth of a decades long attempt to ethnically cleanse

2295
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:23,680
Speaker 1: this land of its Arab inhabitants. Take a listen to

2296
01:56:23,680 --> 01:56:26,600
Speaker 1: how she describes this logic and its importance to the present.

2297
01:56:26,720 --> 01:56:29,360
Speaker 15: The genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of

2298
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:32,480
Speaker 15: a long standing settler colonial process over issure of the

2299
01:56:32,800 --> 01:56:37,520
Speaker 15: native Palestinians. For over seventy six years, this process has

2300
01:56:37,560 --> 01:56:41,960
Speaker 15: oppressed the Palestinians as a people in every way imaginable,

2301
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:51,080
Speaker 15: crushing their in the inalienable right to self determination demographically, economically, territorially, culturally,

2302
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:56,040
Speaker 15: and politically. Israel has attempted to displace them, expropriate their

2303
01:56:56,120 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 15: land and other resources, and ultimately replace them the colonial

2304
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:05,600
Speaker 15: Amnija of the West as condon Israel's colonial settler project.

2305
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:08,000
Speaker 15: From the violity story of the very birth of the

2306
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 15: State of Israel to its oppressive occupation since nineteen sixty seven,

2307
01:57:12,280 --> 01:57:15,400
Speaker 15: the crippling enclosure of Gaza since nineteen ninety three, and

2308
01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:19,160
Speaker 15: its military assaults on Gaza since two thousand and seven,

2309
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 15: the world now sees the bitter fruit of the impunity

2310
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 15: afforded to Israel. This was a tragedy foretold.

2311
01:57:29,080 --> 01:57:30,280
Speaker 6: Tragedy for told. Now.

2312
01:57:30,280 --> 01:57:33,160
Speaker 1: The report's not particularly long, It's about twenty five pages.

2313
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,320
Speaker 1: It's not intended to be exhaustive, but it is a

2314
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:39,560
Speaker 1: highly affected summation and analysis of what's becoming increasingly undeniable.

2315
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:43,200
Speaker 1: This is not it's never been a targeted hunt for Hamas.

2316
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:45,880
Speaker 1: It's an excuse to attempt to finish the job of

2317
01:57:45,960 --> 01:57:49,120
Speaker 1: Zionism by fully dominating the Palestinians, destroying them in Holler,

2318
01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 1: and part establishing a new demographic reality that can safeguard

2319
01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:56,240
Speaker 1: their state policy of Jewish supremacy. The second reason that

2320
01:57:56,320 --> 01:57:58,360
Speaker 1: this report is consequential is because, as.

2321
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 6: A report prepared for and delivered.

2322
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:02,760
Speaker 1: To the UN, it may carry special weight with the

2323
01:58:02,800 --> 01:58:05,760
Speaker 1: International Court of Justice, which is of course a UN body.

2324
01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:09,000
Speaker 1: The International Court of Justice has already determined that South

2325
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:12,040
Speaker 1: Africa's case against Israel on violation of the Genocide Convention

2326
01:58:12,480 --> 01:58:13,600
Speaker 1: is strong enough.

2327
01:58:13,400 --> 01:58:14,520
Speaker 6: To be plausible.

2328
01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:17,040
Speaker 1: I the chance to speak with Muen Rabani this week

2329
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 1: for Crystal Colin Friends. Fresh off his debate on the

2330
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:22,000
Speaker 1: Wex Friedman podcast. He went so far as to say

2331
01:58:22,280 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: that Albanes's report obligates the ICJ to take seriously.

2332
01:58:26,680 --> 01:58:28,440
Speaker 6: A finding of genocide. Take a listen.

2333
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 18: I think the significant issue here is that the International

2334
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:38,640
Speaker 18: Court of Justice, unlike the International Criminal Court, is a

2335
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 18: UN organ It's one of the principal UN organs, and

2336
01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 18: therefore you could almost consider it a kind of obligation,

2337
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:51,760
Speaker 18: even if that's putting it too strongly. The ICJ will

2338
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:56,840
Speaker 18: take UN documents particularly seriously, and I think this is

2339
01:58:56,920 --> 01:59:00,320
Speaker 18: part of the reason that it ultimately rest on it

2340
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:05,360
Speaker 18: positively to South Africa's application in December, was because so

2341
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:10,040
Speaker 18: much of the information contained that the South African application

2342
01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 18: was based on UN sources, so the ICJ basically had

2343
01:59:15,800 --> 01:59:19,640
Speaker 18: to either confirm the validity of what the UN was

2344
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:23,680
Speaker 18: saying or go against its own organization, so to speak.

2345
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:30,440
Speaker 18: I think this report is a little different because of

2346
01:59:30,480 --> 01:59:33,720
Speaker 18: the way it was produced, but nevertheless it will now

2347
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:37,120
Speaker 18: become an official UN document. It will have to be

2348
01:59:37,200 --> 01:59:41,240
Speaker 18: carefully studied by the ICJ, and again I have to

2349
01:59:41,240 --> 01:59:43,760
Speaker 18: read it in detail, but from what I've seen it

2350
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:48,280
Speaker 18: seems to be a well argued summary of the case

2351
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:52,480
Speaker 18: against Israel, which once again finds that there is a

2352
01:59:52,680 --> 01:59:58,120
Speaker 18: plausible case against Israel for genocide.

2353
01:59:58,280 --> 02:00:01,360
Speaker 1: And finally, this report is significant because it demands action

2354
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:04,080
Speaker 1: of the UN and its member states. After all, it

2355
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:06,920
Speaker 1: is incumbent on every signatory to the Genocide Conventions not

2356
02:00:06,960 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 1: just to abide by the conventions themselves, but to work

2357
02:00:09,680 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 1: to prevent genocide and to punish genocide. Specifically, Albaniese calls

2358
02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:17,640
Speaker 1: for a complete arms embargo of Israel and suggests sanctions

2359
02:00:17,720 --> 02:00:22,320
Speaker 1: may also be required to secure an immediate and lasting ceasefire. Unfortunately,

2360
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:25,040
Speaker 1: of course, the US has gone in the polar opposite direction.

2361
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:27,960
Speaker 1: The very weak that this report, titled Anatomy of a

2362
02:00:27,960 --> 02:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Genocide was presented, the US outrageously claimed that Israel was

2363
02:00:32,080 --> 02:00:35,920
Speaker 1: acting in compliance with international humanitarian law, accepting that country's

2364
02:00:36,040 --> 02:00:39,760
Speaker 1: perversion of such law and the logic that all civilians

2365
02:00:39,760 --> 02:00:43,840
Speaker 1: and civilian infrastructure can be safely marked for destruction and extermination.

2366
02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:47,880
Speaker 1: This certification was granted specifically in order to enable the

2367
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:51,320
Speaker 1: weaponshipments on which Israel is wholly dependent for continuation of

2368
02:00:51,360 --> 02:00:54,680
Speaker 1: their genocidal acts. The US State Department additionally asserted that

2369
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:58,280
Speaker 1: Israel is not blocking humanitarian aid, which is funny since

2370
02:00:58,280 --> 02:01:00,880
Speaker 1: the US has been reduced to dropping aid into Gaza

2371
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:04,320
Speaker 1: from the sky at great danger to civilians, as if

2372
02:01:04,360 --> 02:01:06,800
Speaker 1: into some hostile territory rather than into a strip of

2373
02:01:06,880 --> 02:01:10,440
Speaker 1: land controlled by our great ally Israel. Those of us

2374
02:01:10,480 --> 02:01:12,919
Speaker 1: who have been paying attention have been watching this genocide

2375
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:16,320
Speaker 1: unfold clearly for months, from the reporting on how civilian

2376
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:19,440
Speaker 1: power targets were being intentionally destroyed, to the early announcement

2377
02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:22,000
Speaker 1: of a complete sage in which Palestinians were described as

2378
02:01:22,120 --> 02:01:25,720
Speaker 1: human animals, to the dire warnings of starvation, and seeing

2379
02:01:25,760 --> 02:01:29,920
Speaker 1: those dire warnings becoming a nightmare reality. But for some reason,

2380
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:32,360
Speaker 1: the last couple weeks do seem to have really shifted

2381
02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:36,120
Speaker 1: perceptions that Al Jazeera drone videos showing four unarmed Palestinians

2382
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:39,920
Speaker 1: strolling along obviously before being killed by a robot which

2383
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:42,560
Speaker 1: was controlled by some murderous human being who was doing

2384
02:01:42,560 --> 02:01:46,000
Speaker 1: the bidding of their entire genocidal government, seems to have

2385
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:49,320
Speaker 1: been what flipped Alex Jones Joe Rogan. The Flower massacre,

2386
02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:52,120
Speaker 1: where over one hundred Palestinians were murdered for the crime

2387
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:54,760
Speaker 1: of seeking aid for their starving families, that seems to

2388
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:57,360
Speaker 1: have brought home from any the scale of barbarism and cruelty,

2389
02:01:57,680 --> 02:02:00,560
Speaker 1: the levels of absolute desperation that Israel had has driven

2390
02:02:00,600 --> 02:02:03,760
Speaker 1: these people too with our help. Of course, a new

2391
02:02:03,760 --> 02:02:06,360
Speaker 1: poll taken after the Flower Masker actually shows the majority

2392
02:02:06,360 --> 02:02:10,320
Speaker 1: of Americans now disapprove of Israel's military action. Democrats disagree

2393
02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:14,080
Speaker 1: by a margin of seventy five to eighteen. In addition

2394
02:02:14,120 --> 02:02:18,440
Speaker 1: to everything else, this report is validation you aren't crazy.

2395
02:02:18,920 --> 02:02:21,840
Speaker 1: The horrors you're watching every day are exactly what they

2396
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:25,200
Speaker 1: seem to be. The powerless college kids who oppose this genocide,

2397
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:29,440
Speaker 1: they're not the maniacs, They're not the monsters. The supposedly

2398
02:02:29,520 --> 02:02:32,840
Speaker 1: civilized class of DC elites who have turned the Gaza

2399
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:38,040
Speaker 1: Strip into a pit of human misery, death, starvation, and despair, they.

2400
02:02:37,880 --> 02:02:38,919
Speaker 6: Are the true demons.

2401
02:02:39,600 --> 02:02:41,960
Speaker 1: One day, I'd like to see some deep reporting on

2402
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:46,120
Speaker 1: how these supposedly liberal humanitarians learn to love the crime

2403
02:02:46,160 --> 02:02:48,320
Speaker 1: of crimes. So, guys, we still have our eyes on

2404
02:02:48,360 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 1: that horrific bridge collapse just outside of Baltimore.

2405
02:02:52,200 --> 02:02:52,360
Speaker 6: Now.

2406
02:02:52,400 --> 02:02:55,760
Speaker 1: The expectation is that six construction workers who had been

2407
02:02:55,800 --> 02:03:01,040
Speaker 1: there repairing potholes are presumed dead after they plunged into

2408
02:03:01,080 --> 02:03:04,080
Speaker 1: that river after the bridge collapse, where fortunately joined this

2409
02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:07,400
Speaker 1: morning by Maximilian Alvarez. He is editor in chief of

2410
02:03:07,440 --> 02:03:10,080
Speaker 1: the Real News. He's also the author of the fantastic

2411
02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:12,640
Speaker 1: book The Work of Living, and also happens to be

2412
02:03:12,760 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 1: a Baltimore resident who had just gotten back from a

2413
02:03:15,680 --> 02:03:19,960
Speaker 1: really important reporting trip to East Palestine, Ohio when this

2414
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:22,400
Speaker 1: bridge collapsed, and was there on the scene talking to

2415
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:25,160
Speaker 1: some people who were associated with those workers.

2416
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:26,480
Speaker 6: It's great to see you, Max.

2417
02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:28,680
Speaker 3: Great to see you too, sister. Thanks for having me on.

2418
02:03:29,440 --> 02:03:31,840
Speaker 1: So first, let's talk about who these workers were. We

2419
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:33,720
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a report here from the

2420
02:03:33,760 --> 02:03:36,880
Speaker 1: Washington Post we can put up on the screen. They write,

2421
02:03:36,960 --> 02:03:40,320
Speaker 1: six presumed dead in bridge collapse were immigrants, soccer fans,

2422
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 1: family men.

2423
02:03:41,280 --> 02:03:41,640
Speaker 6: They say.

2424
02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:44,200
Speaker 1: The key bridge, now twisted wreckage submerged in the Potapsco,

2425
02:03:44,240 --> 02:03:47,640
Speaker 1: once held six men high above the river. They were fathers, husbands,

2426
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:50,240
Speaker 1: and hard workers. At least some of them had traveled

2427
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:52,640
Speaker 1: to this country for a life they hoped would be

2428
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:56,440
Speaker 1: prosperous and long. Just reflect a bit Max about the

2429
02:03:56,600 --> 02:04:00,240
Speaker 1: circumstances that put them in this position of danger and

2430
02:04:00,320 --> 02:04:01,880
Speaker 1: who they were in their lives.

2431
02:04:03,120 --> 02:04:07,560
Speaker 7: Well, I'll start with the men we have identified so far,

2432
02:04:07,760 --> 02:04:10,320
Speaker 7: because I want people to know their names right, because

2433
02:04:10,480 --> 02:04:13,200
Speaker 7: as we try to show every week here at the

2434
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:15,320
Speaker 7: Real News Network as I try to show on the

2435
02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:18,000
Speaker 7: Arctic Class Wars segment breaking points, and you do the

2436
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:19,839
Speaker 7: same with your coverage.

2437
02:04:19,880 --> 02:04:20,040
Speaker 3: Right.

2438
02:04:20,080 --> 02:04:23,200
Speaker 7: These are not just you know, name tags and job titles.

2439
02:04:23,240 --> 02:04:26,440
Speaker 7: These are human beings who had lives and families and

2440
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 7: backstories and dreams, and who were just trying to make

2441
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:31,640
Speaker 7: a living and provide for their families, just like all

2442
02:04:31,720 --> 02:04:34,800
Speaker 7: of us are. These were workers, just like you. These

2443
02:04:34,840 --> 02:04:39,080
Speaker 7: were you know, community members. And so far, we, according

2444
02:04:39,120 --> 02:04:41,080
Speaker 7: to the New York Times, have been able to identify

2445
02:04:41,280 --> 02:04:44,800
Speaker 7: four of the men, two of whom were recovered in

2446
02:04:44,840 --> 02:04:48,520
Speaker 7: the last twenty four hours dead in a car. But

2447
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:52,680
Speaker 7: the names we have so far are Alejandro Hernandez Fuentes

2448
02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:58,600
Speaker 7: thirty aged thirty five, dor Lean Ronean Castillo Carrera twenty six,

2449
02:04:59,440 --> 02:05:02,720
Speaker 7: Miguel who was in his forties and from El Salvador,

2450
02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:05,480
Speaker 7: who was married with three children and been living in

2451
02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:10,400
Speaker 7: Maryland for nineteen years. Maner Yasir Suazzo Sandoval, who was

2452
02:05:10,400 --> 02:05:13,440
Speaker 7: in his thirties from Honduras and immigrated here more than

2453
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:17,080
Speaker 7: seventeen years ago. What we know, and what I've been

2454
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:21,520
Speaker 7: reporting at the Real News is that we all know

2455
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:25,160
Speaker 7: what happened to the bridge. This this cargo ship on

2456
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:27,320
Speaker 7: its way to Sri Lanka that had just left the

2457
02:05:27,360 --> 02:05:32,520
Speaker 7: port minutes earlier, experienced a catastrophic propulsion failure, issued a

2458
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:36,120
Speaker 7: may Day call about ninety seconds, where we had about

2459
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:39,120
Speaker 7: ninety seconds from that call to respond to it. And

2460
02:05:39,160 --> 02:05:43,520
Speaker 7: that is why police responded to that call to block

2461
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 7: traffic from entering the bridge. And you know, credit to them,

2462
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:48,400
Speaker 7: they did save lives. But you can hear in the

2463
02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:53,960
Speaker 7: dispatch recordings an increasingly desperate dispatch. You're asking if anyone's

2464
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:56,440
Speaker 7: going to go tell the work crew on that bridge

2465
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,080
Speaker 7: about what was about to happen to them, And you

2466
02:05:59,120 --> 02:06:02,280
Speaker 7: hear a police officer saying, I'm here at the bridge

2467
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:04,080
Speaker 7: like waiting for backup, and then I'll go up and

2468
02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:06,400
Speaker 7: tell them. And then the next thing you hear is

2469
02:06:06,440 --> 02:06:09,560
Speaker 7: another voice saying, the bridge just collapsed. The thing that

2470
02:06:09,600 --> 02:06:12,200
Speaker 7: I've been trying to point out to people and the

2471
02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:16,720
Speaker 7: thing that Hasu's compos another construction worker who works for

2472
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:19,840
Speaker 7: Brauner Builders, that's the contractor that employed the crew on

2473
02:06:19,880 --> 02:06:23,000
Speaker 7: that bridge. They were contracting with the State of Maryland

2474
02:06:23,040 --> 02:06:25,400
Speaker 7: to fill potholes on the bridge. In the middle of

2475
02:06:25,440 --> 02:06:27,800
Speaker 7: the night, so the rest of us could have a safe,

2476
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:31,440
Speaker 7: smooth drive to work in the morning. They got no

2477
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:34,240
Speaker 7: warning that they were about to meet their debts. They

2478
02:06:34,280 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 7: were on that bridge without it like, in a clearly

2479
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:40,640
Speaker 7: potentially hazardous work environment. And let's not forget the construction

2480
02:06:40,760 --> 02:06:43,000
Speaker 7: is one of the deadliest jobs in the country.

2481
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:43,560
Speaker 3: Already.

2482
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,720
Speaker 7: Six crew members on a similar crew died last year

2483
02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:49,960
Speaker 7: in Baltimore County when a car barreled into their crew

2484
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:50,800
Speaker 7: on the.

2485
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:53,520
Speaker 3: Side of the road. Right, So it was already dangerous.

2486
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:58,200
Speaker 7: They were doing that work, they were contracted out, They

2487
02:06:58,200 --> 02:07:00,880
Speaker 7: were doing that work in the dead night while these

2488
02:07:00,920 --> 02:07:03,560
Speaker 7: mega ships were passing beneath their feet, and they had

2489
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:07,160
Speaker 7: no direct line to emergency dispatch. That's why the police

2490
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:09,840
Speaker 7: couldn't get to them in time. Was I'm not saying

2491
02:07:09,880 --> 02:07:12,600
Speaker 7: that the police should have raced faster to tell the

2492
02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:14,200
Speaker 7: men on the crew. I'm saying the men on that

2493
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:16,560
Speaker 7: crew doing that job should have had a direct line

2494
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:20,280
Speaker 7: to emergency dispatch in case something like this happened. We

2495
02:07:20,400 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 7: see why that's a necessity. But these men were just

2496
02:07:24,080 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 7: like so many other men who are and women who

2497
02:07:27,280 --> 02:07:30,920
Speaker 7: were working in this country trying to, you know, make

2498
02:07:30,920 --> 02:07:33,840
Speaker 7: a life for themselves. Right, They went to work, they

2499
02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:37,160
Speaker 7: kissed their families good goodbye that night to head to

2500
02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:39,560
Speaker 7: their night shift, which went from nine pm to five

2501
02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,880
Speaker 7: am in the morning, and they never came home, right,

2502
02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:45,520
Speaker 7: I mean, like, and these are the kind of people

2503
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:48,120
Speaker 7: people like hasus, people like the men on that bridge,

2504
02:07:48,160 --> 02:07:51,240
Speaker 7: people like me, people like my own foster daughter and

2505
02:07:51,320 --> 02:07:55,080
Speaker 7: her friends. She's undocumented from Honduras as well. Like, I mean,

2506
02:07:55,080 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 7: these are just regular people who we are all trying

2507
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:00,960
Speaker 7: to make a life for ourselves. And right now, Trump

2508
02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:03,880
Speaker 7: and the people he is poisoned with his ideology are

2509
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:07,200
Speaker 7: out there saying that we are the enemy destroying this country.

2510
02:08:07,360 --> 02:08:10,200
Speaker 7: But what are we actually doing. We're filling your potholes

2511
02:08:10,240 --> 02:08:13,440
Speaker 7: at night, We're cleaning your office buildings. Our children are

2512
02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:17,120
Speaker 7: being found cleaning bone saws in meat packing plants and

2513
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:23,160
Speaker 7: working in parts distributing manufacturers for Hyundai in Alabama, or

2514
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:28,920
Speaker 7: picking tomatoes in Florida under slave like conditions for the

2515
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:31,440
Speaker 7: hamburger that you get at Wendy's right.

2516
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:32,320
Speaker 3: But it's not just that.

2517
02:08:32,480 --> 02:08:34,120
Speaker 7: I mean, there are so many of us who are

2518
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:38,520
Speaker 7: just out there doing regular jobs, trying to live our lives.

2519
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:41,040
Speaker 7: We're not out here to try to destroy this country.

2520
02:08:41,040 --> 02:08:43,960
Speaker 7: We are helping making this country great, while the people

2521
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:47,000
Speaker 7: who are destroying it are clear and obvious and in

2522
02:08:47,040 --> 02:08:49,320
Speaker 7: front of all of us. And yet people have been

2523
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:53,880
Speaker 7: so brain poisoned by this, this xenophobic crap that they

2524
02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:57,960
Speaker 7: can't they are too cowardly to confront the reality that

2525
02:08:58,040 --> 02:08:59,800
Speaker 7: is staring us right in the face, which is that

2526
02:08:59,840 --> 02:09:03,440
Speaker 7: the rich, the corporations, and they're bought off politicians are

2527
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:04,920
Speaker 7: screwing over all of us.

2528
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:06,480
Speaker 3: And pitting us against one another.

2529
02:09:06,720 --> 02:09:11,360
Speaker 7: Well, everything from East Palestine to Boeing planes is crumbling

2530
02:09:11,400 --> 02:09:14,760
Speaker 7: all around us. I'm truly, as you can tell, kind

2531
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:15,960
Speaker 7: of overwhelmed right now.

2532
02:09:16,160 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2533
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:19,160
Speaker 1: Well, and I wish we could say it was just

2534
02:09:19,200 --> 02:09:21,840
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or it was just right wing media, but

2535
02:09:22,080 --> 02:09:26,600
Speaker 1: we've seen the way that Democrats have fully embraced the

2536
02:09:26,640 --> 02:09:29,080
Speaker 1: republican position. I mean, you literally have Joe Biden going

2537
02:09:29,120 --> 02:09:30,120
Speaker 1: out and saying, you.

2538
02:09:30,080 --> 02:09:31,520
Speaker 6: Know, I thought Donald Trump.

2539
02:09:31,560 --> 02:09:33,600
Speaker 1: Previously they were talking about how he's a fascist on

2540
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:35,840
Speaker 1: the border. Now Biden's going out and saying, oh, why

2541
02:09:35,840 --> 02:09:37,800
Speaker 1: don't you work with me? I would love to adopt

2542
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:43,040
Speaker 1: your your border policy. The media consistently frames immigrants in

2543
02:09:43,160 --> 02:09:47,080
Speaker 1: a negative light, very similar to the Trumpian framing as criminals,

2544
02:09:47,200 --> 02:09:50,920
Speaker 1: as invaders, as a problem to be dealt with, versus

2545
02:09:51,360 --> 02:09:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, when you see who the actual human beings

2546
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,240
Speaker 1: who were here literally risking and losing their lives so

2547
02:09:57,280 --> 02:10:00,840
Speaker 1: that you can have a safer and smoother commute, it's

2548
02:10:00,840 --> 02:10:03,480
Speaker 1: a very different reality that's out there of who these

2549
02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:07,440
Speaker 1: actual individuals are, which, by the way, almost everybody in

2550
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:09,920
Speaker 1: this country has to know an immigrant from somewhere, right.

2551
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's impossible not to think about who those

2552
02:10:12,080 --> 02:10:15,440
Speaker 1: people are in your life, Like, think about who those

2553
02:10:15,440 --> 02:10:17,280
Speaker 1: people are, because I can tell you in my life,

2554
02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:21,440
Speaker 1: literally the best people I know in my entire life

2555
02:10:21,760 --> 02:10:25,000
Speaker 1: are people who immigrated to this country. And so even

2556
02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:29,280
Speaker 1: though it's not, you know, affecting me directly personally my family,

2557
02:10:29,440 --> 02:10:34,240
Speaker 1: it does because I'm personally insulted by the caricature that

2558
02:10:34,280 --> 02:10:36,640
Speaker 1: has been painted of them and the way that they're

2559
02:10:36,640 --> 02:10:40,320
Speaker 1: consistently smeared. Again now at this point across the board.

2560
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know what else to

2561
02:10:43,280 --> 02:10:45,480
Speaker 7: say at this point, but I mean, like to anyone

2562
02:10:45,520 --> 02:10:48,960
Speaker 7: on breaking points, to sager to to anyone who listens

2563
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:53,200
Speaker 7: to him, and like, I mean, if you can't think

2564
02:10:53,240 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 7: of anyone else at least think of me. You guys

2565
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:57,880
Speaker 7: watch me on this channel too, Think of me and

2566
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:00,840
Speaker 7: my family, right, I mean, like you know, and I

2567
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:03,600
Speaker 7: don't know, maybe that's not enough, but you know, I

2568
02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:07,960
Speaker 7: just really want to stress to people that, I mean,

2569
02:11:08,080 --> 02:11:11,840
Speaker 7: like we are human beings and fellow workers just like you.

2570
02:11:11,920 --> 02:11:14,880
Speaker 7: Our kids are your kids friends at school, Like you know,

2571
02:11:14,920 --> 02:11:18,160
Speaker 7: we're sitting next to you in the pews at church, right,

2572
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:21,440
Speaker 7: I mean, we are not some horned, fanged, you know,

2573
02:11:21,600 --> 02:11:25,800
Speaker 7: like monstrous race of mongrels coming here to quote unquote

2574
02:11:25,960 --> 02:11:29,040
Speaker 7: destroy this country. And you're absolutely right, Crystal, Like, I mean,

2575
02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:32,360
Speaker 7: shame on the Democrats for just jumping on board this

2576
02:11:32,440 --> 02:11:36,320
Speaker 7: crap and totally throwing us and the constituents who voted

2577
02:11:36,360 --> 02:11:39,560
Speaker 7: for Biden in twenty twenty under the bus because we

2578
02:11:39,560 --> 02:11:41,520
Speaker 7: were shocked and horrified by what we were seeing at

2579
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:44,240
Speaker 7: the border and now we're just seeing a continuation of that,

2580
02:11:44,600 --> 02:11:46,880
Speaker 7: and like what are we supposed to do? Who's gonna

2581
02:11:46,880 --> 02:11:48,960
Speaker 7: fight for us? And I just want to make like

2582
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:50,880
Speaker 7: one more point here because you mentioned at the top

2583
02:11:51,560 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 7: that like I got back from East Palestine, Ohio, where

2584
02:11:54,640 --> 02:11:57,800
Speaker 7: I've been like like twenty four hours before this bridge collapsed.

2585
02:11:57,920 --> 02:12:00,000
Speaker 7: I was there filming with the Real News. I've been

2586
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:03,160
Speaker 7: interviewing people from that community. That's Trump country, right. I've

2587
02:12:03,200 --> 02:12:05,920
Speaker 7: been talking to those people all year about the hell

2588
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:08,839
Speaker 7: that they are going through and lifting up their voices

2589
02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:09,720
Speaker 7: and their stories.

2590
02:12:09,800 --> 02:12:10,000
Speaker 9: Right.

2591
02:12:10,240 --> 02:12:13,920
Speaker 7: And I told East Palestinians in East Palestine this Saturday,

2592
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:16,840
Speaker 7: it's not that working people have forgotten you. It's that

2593
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:19,840
Speaker 7: so many other people out there feel just as forgotten

2594
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:20,800
Speaker 7: as you do.

2595
02:12:21,000 --> 02:12:21,160
Speaker 17: Right.

2596
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:25,800
Speaker 7: Because I remember when Donald Trump came to Lordstown, just

2597
02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:28,880
Speaker 7: a few miles down the road from East Palestine, and

2598
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:32,280
Speaker 7: told all the manufacturing workers they're particularly the workers who

2599
02:12:32,320 --> 02:12:36,240
Speaker 7: worked at the famous GM plant in Lordstown, don't sell

2600
02:12:36,280 --> 02:12:40,160
Speaker 7: your homes because we're bringing manufacturing jobs back. I remember

2601
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:43,720
Speaker 7: talking to workers at the Lord'stown GM plant who felt

2602
02:12:43,720 --> 02:12:47,200
Speaker 7: hopeful about that. I also remember when Trump achieved his

2603
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 7: signature policy goal, which was a truly massive tax cut

2604
02:12:50,800 --> 02:12:53,880
Speaker 7: for the rich and for corporate America in twenty seventeen.

2605
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:56,960
Speaker 7: I remember him gleefully at mar A Lago going to

2606
02:12:57,000 --> 02:12:59,640
Speaker 7: tell his rich friends, quote, you all just got a

2607
02:12:59,680 --> 02:13:03,200
Speaker 7: lot richer. And the you in that sentence includes companies

2608
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:06,720
Speaker 7: like GM and their CEO, Mary Barra, and I remember

2609
02:13:06,760 --> 02:13:10,160
Speaker 7: when GM got their tax cut, they were making great profits,

2610
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 7: and they still laid off fourteen thousand people and shuttered

2611
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:17,040
Speaker 7: the Lord's Town plant. In twenty nineteen, I talked to

2612
02:13:17,080 --> 02:13:20,160
Speaker 7: those workers. I interviewed some of them on my podcast.

2613
02:13:20,480 --> 02:13:24,480
Speaker 7: The Congressional Budget Office estimated that Trump's tax cuts alone

2614
02:13:24,600 --> 02:13:28,520
Speaker 7: would cost nearly two trillion dollars over the next ten years.

2615
02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:31,400
Speaker 7: That's two trillion dollars worth of money, like out of

2616
02:13:31,440 --> 02:13:35,000
Speaker 7: the tax space, into the pockets of the one percent,

2617
02:13:35,160 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 7: into the offshore accounts. And now these same people, the

2618
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:43,160
Speaker 7: same corporate class that is like buying off Republicans and Democrats,

2619
02:13:43,200 --> 02:13:46,160
Speaker 7: like you said, is telling all of us that immigrants

2620
02:13:46,200 --> 02:13:48,560
Speaker 7: are the ones destroying these countries. They are going back

2621
02:13:48,680 --> 02:13:52,240
Speaker 7: to communities like East Palestine and Lordstown, Ohio, and saying

2622
02:13:52,280 --> 02:13:54,960
Speaker 7: that people who look like me, the workers, the migrants

2623
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:56,720
Speaker 7: who are coming here for a better life, they're the

2624
02:13:56,760 --> 02:13:59,400
Speaker 7: ones who are ruining your country while they're robbing all

2625
02:13:59,440 --> 02:14:00,480
Speaker 7: of us blind.

2626
02:14:00,560 --> 02:14:02,960
Speaker 3: We have to be able to see through this crap.

2627
02:14:03,200 --> 02:14:05,200
Speaker 7: We have to be able to find one another on

2628
02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:08,320
Speaker 7: that basic human level and say I will fight for you.

2629
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:10,200
Speaker 3: You are not that much different than I am.

2630
02:14:10,520 --> 02:14:12,720
Speaker 7: We are working people who are all just trying to

2631
02:14:12,720 --> 02:14:14,839
Speaker 7: make a better life, and we are all getting screwed

2632
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 7: over by this oligopoly, by this or this oligarchy that

2633
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:22,960
Speaker 7: is that has taken over our economy, that is steering

2634
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:26,040
Speaker 7: our politics, that is profiting off of war, that is

2635
02:14:26,080 --> 02:14:29,640
Speaker 7: cutting costs, cutting corners, leading to Boeing planes falling out

2636
02:14:29,680 --> 02:14:33,520
Speaker 7: of the sky, railroads derailing in our backyards. This country

2637
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:35,839
Speaker 7: is going down the twos because of them, not because

2638
02:14:35,880 --> 02:14:38,680
Speaker 7: of us. And if we band together and actually fight

2639
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:42,200
Speaker 7: as one, as a community of the forgotten, as working

2640
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:45,440
Speaker 7: people who say we will be forgotten no more, we

2641
02:14:45,560 --> 02:14:48,520
Speaker 7: can actually make a difference. But if you are buying

2642
02:14:48,560 --> 02:14:50,800
Speaker 7: into the crap, if you're taking the bait, and you're

2643
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:53,800
Speaker 7: letting yourself believe that immigrants like the men who are

2644
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:56,800
Speaker 7: working on this bridge filling potholes for you and me

2645
02:14:57,040 --> 02:14:58,920
Speaker 7: in the middle of the night, then I don't know

2646
02:14:58,960 --> 02:15:01,200
Speaker 7: what else to tell you. You're being played, You're doing

2647
02:15:01,240 --> 02:15:02,520
Speaker 7: the boss's work for them.

2648
02:15:03,200 --> 02:15:05,920
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that ideology that is

2649
02:15:06,120 --> 02:15:08,240
Speaker 1: the problem. To put this up on the screen. I mean,

2650
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:11,760
Speaker 1: I honestly I shouldn't have been surprised, but this is

2651
02:15:11,800 --> 02:15:16,520
Speaker 1: the type of logic that passes for elite economic thinking.

2652
02:15:17,080 --> 02:15:22,080
Speaker 1: So City Group's Andrew Hollenhorst was asked by Bloomberg about,

2653
02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:25,240
Speaker 1: you know, rebuilding the bridge, which seems like a pretty

2654
02:15:25,280 --> 02:15:28,800
Speaker 1: obvious basic priority, and he said, quote, the US is

2655
02:15:28,800 --> 02:15:31,720
Speaker 1: already grappling with an unprecedented deficit that is threatening to

2656
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:34,080
Speaker 1: balloon in the coming years without substantial changes. If the

2657
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:37,280
Speaker 1: US borrows even more to invest in nuts and bolts,

2658
02:15:37,280 --> 02:15:39,720
Speaker 1: it would be inflationary in the short term, even if

2659
02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:40,560
Speaker 1: longer term.

2660
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:42,240
Speaker 6: It fosters greater price stability.

2661
02:15:42,360 --> 02:15:46,800
Speaker 1: So he's saying, no, the actually the federal Garment shouldn't even.

2662
02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:50,360
Speaker 6: Pay to rebuild this bridge. That's his argument.

2663
02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:53,560
Speaker 7: I mean, like again, like this is this is the

2664
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:56,640
Speaker 7: kind of crap that like you, you the conclusions you

2665
02:15:56,760 --> 02:16:00,000
Speaker 7: come to when you live in this sort of elite

2666
02:16:00,040 --> 02:16:03,040
Speaker 7: bubble and everything that you're talking about is just a concept.

2667
02:16:03,040 --> 02:16:06,200
Speaker 7: But you're not talking to the actual people on the ground,

2668
02:16:06,240 --> 02:16:11,120
Speaker 7: working people, Democrat, Republican, non voter, immigrant, non immigrant, a union,

2669
02:16:11,160 --> 02:16:13,600
Speaker 7: non union. If you just talk to people on the ground,

2670
02:16:13,640 --> 02:16:16,280
Speaker 7: you will get a very different picture of America than

2671
02:16:16,320 --> 02:16:18,560
Speaker 7: what people like that are trying to present to you.

2672
02:16:18,840 --> 02:16:20,200
Speaker 3: And we're already seeing this, I.

2673
02:16:20,200 --> 02:16:23,240
Speaker 7: Think, I know, Ryan and Emily kind of covered this

2674
02:16:23,320 --> 02:16:28,200
Speaker 7: about the you know, ridiculous you know, right wing conspiracy

2675
02:16:28,240 --> 02:16:31,960
Speaker 7: theories that are already like filtering through social media about

2676
02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:34,920
Speaker 7: this bridge collapse. And again I say to people thinking

2677
02:16:35,040 --> 02:16:37,359
Speaker 7: like that, you know like that that stop being a coward.

2678
02:16:37,600 --> 02:16:39,760
Speaker 7: Look at the reality that is staring you right in

2679
02:16:39,760 --> 02:16:41,400
Speaker 7: the face. You don't need to come up with some

2680
02:16:41,480 --> 02:16:45,760
Speaker 7: boogeyman explanation for what is patently obvious. I understand that

2681
02:16:45,800 --> 02:16:47,879
Speaker 7: people are going to try to use towns like East

2682
02:16:47,879 --> 02:16:51,080
Speaker 7: Palestine and play them off Baltimore and say like, oh,

2683
02:16:51,120 --> 02:16:53,960
Speaker 7: this is Trump country and Biden hasn't helped them, But look,

2684
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:55,640
Speaker 7: he's going to go try to rebuild the bridge as

2685
02:16:55,720 --> 02:16:58,960
Speaker 7: quick as possible in Baltimore. And what I would say

2686
02:16:58,959 --> 02:17:01,320
Speaker 7: to you is someone who has been covering this on

2687
02:17:01,360 --> 02:17:05,800
Speaker 7: the railroads in East Palestine and now in Baltimore, that like, actually,

2688
02:17:05,879 --> 02:17:08,760
Speaker 7: what Biden is doing is incredibly consistent with what happened

2689
02:17:08,800 --> 02:17:12,840
Speaker 7: in East Palestine, because that's probably why they made the

2690
02:17:12,920 --> 02:17:17,039
Speaker 7: disastrous decision. In Norfolk, Southern pressured the local officials to

2691
02:17:17,200 --> 02:17:20,680
Speaker 7: vent and burn five cars worth of toxic vinyl chlorides,

2692
02:17:20,760 --> 02:17:24,040
Speaker 7: set them on fire. Release that massive death plume into

2693
02:17:24,040 --> 02:17:27,720
Speaker 7: the air, even though the manufacture of the vinyl chloride.

2694
02:17:27,320 --> 02:17:28,840
Speaker 3: Said that that was not necessary.

2695
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:31,760
Speaker 7: There were no signs that the contents of those cars

2696
02:17:31,760 --> 02:17:34,640
Speaker 7: were going to explode like Norfolk Southern said they would,

2697
02:17:34,800 --> 02:17:37,080
Speaker 7: which has led people in the community to, I think

2698
02:17:37,160 --> 02:17:40,120
Speaker 7: rightly surmise that the whole reason that they have been

2699
02:17:40,200 --> 02:17:45,520
Speaker 7: poisoned by that decision was not to prevent an explosion,

2700
02:17:45,560 --> 02:17:47,800
Speaker 7: but it was to clear the way so that Norfolk

2701
02:17:47,879 --> 02:17:51,160
Speaker 7: Southern could reopen those rail lines as soon as possible,

2702
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:54,680
Speaker 7: which I saw trains going through there every fifteen minutes.

2703
02:17:54,720 --> 02:17:57,240
Speaker 7: That's why Biden is committing to rebuilding this bridge. It

2704
02:17:57,360 --> 02:17:59,840
Speaker 7: is a major thoroughfare. A lot of our trade depends

2705
02:17:59,879 --> 02:18:02,840
Speaker 7: on it. It's gonna hit the economy hard, I mean, like,

2706
02:18:02,920 --> 02:18:05,760
Speaker 7: but that's why they're rushing to again, like protect the

2707
02:18:05,840 --> 02:18:08,760
Speaker 7: sort of business interests, the economic interests, like, but they

2708
02:18:08,760 --> 02:18:09,760
Speaker 7: are not gonna.

2709
02:18:09,520 --> 02:18:13,200
Speaker 6: Like about the people. It's about protecting capital. Yeah, that's

2710
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:13,959
Speaker 6: exactly right.

2711
02:18:14,120 --> 02:18:16,840
Speaker 1: Well, Max, tell people where they can they can find

2712
02:18:17,040 --> 02:18:19,040
Speaker 1: more of your work. And I wish Saga was here

2713
02:18:19,080 --> 02:18:21,160
Speaker 1: today so he could have this exchange with you as well,

2714
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:22,840
Speaker 1: since his name came up we'll have to have you

2715
02:18:22,920 --> 02:18:25,080
Speaker 1: back on so you can have some of these conversations,

2716
02:18:25,680 --> 02:18:27,440
Speaker 1: you know, face to face and engage on the topic.

2717
02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would love to.

2718
02:18:29,000 --> 02:18:32,039
Speaker 7: I'd love to tell you with have heart to heart

2719
02:18:32,120 --> 02:18:34,440
Speaker 7: right because this is you guys. This is personal for me,

2720
02:18:34,480 --> 02:18:36,360
Speaker 7: this is personal for a lot of people that you know.

2721
02:18:36,440 --> 02:18:39,360
Speaker 7: We're not just abstractions. If we can at least talk

2722
02:18:39,400 --> 02:18:42,119
Speaker 7: on that level, I can deal with differences of opinion.

2723
02:18:42,160 --> 02:18:45,039
Speaker 7: But look me in the face, see the people that

2724
02:18:45,080 --> 02:18:48,040
Speaker 7: you were talking about, and then let's talk about how

2725
02:18:48,120 --> 02:18:51,680
Speaker 7: to move forward. So Sager, I welcome the conversation, brother,

2726
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:54,360
Speaker 7: and I appreciate again all the work that you guys do,

2727
02:18:54,480 --> 02:18:56,920
Speaker 7: but of course, for obvious reasons, like I feel very

2728
02:18:56,959 --> 02:19:00,240
Speaker 7: strongly about this, I feel very strongly about you know,

2729
02:19:00,320 --> 02:19:03,760
Speaker 7: working people and our collective struggles, which is what we

2730
02:19:03,800 --> 02:19:06,640
Speaker 7: try to cover every week at the Real News Network.

2731
02:19:06,680 --> 02:19:09,880
Speaker 7: Folks can find us at the realnews dot com. Please

2732
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:12,520
Speaker 7: support the work that we're doing. Like every other media outlet,

2733
02:19:12,560 --> 02:19:13,879
Speaker 7: we're trying to do our best.

2734
02:19:13,640 --> 02:19:14,600
Speaker 3: With what we've got.

2735
02:19:14,879 --> 02:19:18,920
Speaker 7: You can find my podcast Working People wherever you find

2736
02:19:18,959 --> 02:19:22,119
Speaker 7: podcasts are listened to, and of course you can catch

2737
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:24,760
Speaker 7: me occasionally on the art of class war here.

2738
02:19:25,400 --> 02:19:27,480
Speaker 3: Thank you so much Crystal for having me on.

2739
02:19:27,760 --> 02:19:28,640
Speaker 6: Oh it's my pleasure.

2740
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:32,440
Speaker 1: And we always love your segments that on the art

2741
02:19:32,440 --> 02:19:34,240
Speaker 1: of class war that pop up here and the audience

2742
02:19:34,280 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 1: really enjoys them, so I'll have to work on one

2743
02:19:36,320 --> 02:19:38,240
Speaker 1: of those again soon in the future. Great to see you, Max,

2744
02:19:38,280 --> 02:19:40,879
Speaker 1: take care you too. Thank you guys so much for

2745
02:19:40,959 --> 02:19:43,480
Speaker 1: watching today. Sager should be back next week. Thank you

2746
02:19:43,480 --> 02:19:45,880
Speaker 1: to Emily. She has like five different jobs, so she

2747
02:19:45,879 --> 02:19:47,560
Speaker 1: had to run to do her other job as the

2748
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:50,280
Speaker 1: show went long today, but always fun to spend time

2749
02:19:50,280 --> 02:19:50,959
Speaker 1: with her as well.

2750
02:19:50,959 --> 02:20:00,120
Speaker 6: And we'll see you guys next week. Y