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Speaker 1: I I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling, Railvalry, No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 1: You don't do that with your mouth, Vely. That's good, Oliver. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I love this interview so much. You got off. We

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Speaker 1: got off this interview and you were like, I'm so inspired.

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Speaker 1: You were so inspired. You wanted to like go into

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Speaker 1: the desert and make some weird avant garde movie about nothing.

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Speaker 1: That's how inspired you were. You just wanted to like

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be a Doplas brother. I did. I

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Speaker 1: wish that I was a part of I wish I

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Speaker 1: was the I was the third brother. You know. I

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Speaker 1: just very cool, very very cool guys. But it was interesting,

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Speaker 1: one of the most unique, I think interviews that we've

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Speaker 1: had as far as siblings go, because there was a

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Speaker 1: codependency that you will listen to it. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to spoil anything, but it was it was so deep

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Speaker 1: that they had to do something about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: there had to be a breakup of it. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is what their book is about, which it's it's

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Speaker 1: like brothers and it's available right now in paperback. But

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Speaker 1: it's almost I said it, it's like a cosmic, almost

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Speaker 1: a multiple lifetime type connection that's so deep that it

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Speaker 1: took them this lifetime. And for those people who aren't

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Speaker 1: into that, that's okay, but it kind of is a

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Speaker 1: good kind of way to talk about how tight and

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Speaker 1: how close they they are and how they've had to

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Speaker 1: deconstruct their relationship a little bit and re kind of

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Speaker 1: look at like their dependencies on each other so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I loved it. And they're so smart and fun. They're

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Speaker 1: smart and talented. They're talented actors and filmmakers and producers

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Speaker 1: and they're just talented people. But I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: just I love their openness and I loved getting to

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Speaker 1: know them like that. I love that they're constantly seeking

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Speaker 1: new ways to tell stories and that that is really

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Speaker 1: truly like a deep passion for them is to be storytellers.

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Speaker 1: And like you said, it was inspiring to me. And

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Speaker 1: then you left and you were like, I wish those

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Speaker 1: were my siblings. No I do. I'm actually petitioning to

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Speaker 1: actually become part of the family. I have a few

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Speaker 1: calls in and they also have their HBO documentary which

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Speaker 1: we talked about, which we've been getting into, called The

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Speaker 1: Lady and the Dale, and that's out awesome, awesome story.

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Speaker 1: They find these very cool stories. Oh what an amazing

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Speaker 1: check that out. Woman like this whole the history of

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Speaker 1: this woman and the story is so awesome and we

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Speaker 1: won't again ruin it for anybody, but but definitely check

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Speaker 1: that out. That's on HBO. Yeah. Well, I hope you

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Speaker 1: guys enjoy this. This is the Duplas brothers. What about guys,

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Speaker 1: how's it going? What's happening? I feel like we know

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Speaker 1: you guys, and we don't really know you, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know you at all. You should

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Speaker 1: I know you. You guys should get to know us.

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Speaker 1: You work with Meredith. You guys both worked with our other,

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Speaker 1: with our sister in law, our cousins on Wild Wild Country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of weird, kind of weird. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've been watching I'm on second season of Search Party,

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Speaker 1: so you're all up in my ground. Oh my god, dude,

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Speaker 1: that show is so incredible. It's so freaking good and

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Speaker 1: everyone is so good. Dude, Your character though, is it's

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Speaker 1: I'm not just jerking you off here because you're on

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Speaker 1: our show, but like it's you are so fucking good

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Speaker 1: in this. You walk this line of femininity, masculinity, you're

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Speaker 1: sort of all of it. You know, we don't know

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Speaker 1: where you stand. And it's just the perfect interpretation or

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Speaker 1: character characterization of one of these asshole directors is just

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Speaker 1: thank you, so fucking you guys. I'm so happy you

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Speaker 1: came on our podcast. So let's like jump right into it.

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Speaker 1: Usually we see usually have you guys ever made out? Ollie?

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Speaker 1: This is this is my only off camera So where

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Speaker 1: were Where were you? Guys? Born Metro Louisiana, which is yeah,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who've been to New Orleans, it's

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Speaker 1: like five miles outside of the city, the suburb right

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Speaker 1: next to the danger And I think it was you know,

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Speaker 1: it was like one of those places that developed in

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Speaker 1: the seventies with the spread of the middle class. And

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Speaker 1: it felt very safe, and it felt very cozy, and

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Speaker 1: we could ride our bikes. Super white flight by the way, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: White flight Yeah, White Flight TM trademarked, Yeah for sure,

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Speaker 1: particularly in New Orleans, and and it was like pretty boring,

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Speaker 1: you know, like we we didn't have much going on,

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Speaker 1: and our parents just let us do our own thing

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Speaker 1: there and very unsupervised, right yeah, yeah, And and we

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Speaker 1: didn't have like any any sort of like I mean,

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Speaker 1: just different than what I imagine your guys wasn't circumstantially unsupervised,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, were your parents work. Now,

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Speaker 1: we were surprisingly unsupervised as well. Yea. Ours was more

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Speaker 1: just like it's safe here, so we're just gonna go

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Speaker 1: let them do their thing, you know. And what happened

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Speaker 1: to us is like there our parents were not like

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Speaker 1: creatives or anything like that. There was no curation of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's usher in a life of the arts for our boys.

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Speaker 1: It was just like, well, we're busy, so you guys

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Speaker 1: just go run around. And we never really, I think,

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Speaker 1: thought that we could actually have a life in the

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Speaker 1: arts or any kind of career in the arts legitimately,

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Speaker 1: because there was just no there were no models for

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Speaker 1: that around us, you know. But I think that once

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Speaker 1: we moved to Austin, where Jay went to college and

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Speaker 1: I followed him there, that's where we started to kind

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Speaker 1: of be like, oh, I think there there's a way

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Speaker 1: we might be able to But you guys were making

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Speaker 1: movies and stuff as kids, right, I mean you were

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Speaker 1: screwing around, messing around with videos. We were just like

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Speaker 1: blindly kind of creative and you know, but to be clear,

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Speaker 1: our movies were not prophetic of any future potential goodness

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Speaker 1: at all. Like you would not want to go back

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Speaker 1: and watch these movies. They were really bad. But we

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Speaker 1: did lots of creative stuff. I mean, we really did

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Speaker 1: have a lot of flexibility. And we used to make

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Speaker 1: stained glass with Marty Gras beads. I'm sure we inhaled

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Speaker 1: toxic fumes and we just and we had to make

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Speaker 1: up a bunch of shit. Like it's interesting. I feel

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Speaker 1: like our parents grew up super super poor, so we

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Speaker 1: just didn't. We weren't poor at all, but we just didn't.

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Speaker 1: We didn't grow up in a culture of buying things

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Speaker 1: at all, Like there was nothing to be bought or

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Speaker 1: acquired at all if we wanted to do something. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like our parents were like, this is really good.

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Speaker 1: We should support Mark and Jay and their endeavors, and

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Speaker 1: let's get them before track so that they can record

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Speaker 1: their music. It was like, great, figure it out, and

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Speaker 1: so like Jay and I were just like these weird

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Speaker 1: little cave dudes, and we were just making all these

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Speaker 1: things out out of nothing, and I think it was

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Speaker 1: weirdly good for us. It kind of taught us how

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Speaker 1: to scrap and it kind of built this like mentality

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Speaker 1: we had along the way. Yeah. Yeah, we were into

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Speaker 1: making money as kids. Actually we would set up popsicle

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Speaker 1: stands in New Orleans and like sell popsicles for a profit.

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Speaker 1: I mean we would make money. Trust, Oliver loved to make.

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Speaker 1: Oh I love the making. I still do. That's why

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Speaker 1: I'll do anything. What did you do? What did you

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Speaker 1: Why do you think he's doing this podcast? What you

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Speaker 1: couldn't listen the Oliver? There used to be a big

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Speaker 1: golf tournament by our house, right and Oliver used to

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Speaker 1: basically use moms. Well John's across the street. My best

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Speaker 1: friend was John, and then of our house, so that

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Speaker 1: they used their driveway and our driveway and use the

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Speaker 1: van again and basically shuttle people. Shuttled people so and

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Speaker 1: we were fifteen. By the way, people park in that

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Speaker 1: house did not have a license, and so we would

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Speaker 1: they would park way up the street, and so we

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Speaker 1: would just shuttle people for a dollar each and we

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Speaker 1: made coin. I mean we made a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was great, and then they and then they,

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Speaker 1: so we sold we sold fake IDs, you know, I did.

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Speaker 1: I tried to do everything to try to make a

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Speaker 1: little more money. He tried. It just wasn't enough for him. No,

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Speaker 1: it was spiked lemonade. Yeah, the fake id's racket we made.

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Speaker 1: We made those. We would always mark. I was just

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Speaker 1: talking with somebody about this, but even in our early

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Speaker 1: days in Austin, we always made fake passes to south

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Speaker 1: By Southwest two hundred dollars. Was like, there's no fucking

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Speaker 1: way in a million years for that. Yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: can't do it. And it's just like we're not hurting anybody.

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna like hang out in the back and

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Speaker 1: be nervous the whole movie, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't didn't make it fun, but like

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Speaker 1: we did get in to see that shit, But yeah

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Speaker 1: we did. We were kind of schemers and yeah, we

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Speaker 1: would just do shit tons of chores. We were kind

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Speaker 1: of kids who were like what can I do for

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Speaker 1: more money? And our parents were not generous with it

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Speaker 1: at all. Like if you washed windows for like an hour,

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Speaker 1: you would make like a dollar, you know, maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: like fifty cents. They were like pretty tight with all

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Speaker 1: of it, so we were just kind of came up

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Speaker 1: did you know why you wanted money? Meaning like did

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Speaker 1: you know what you wanted to spend it on? Or

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Speaker 1: you just like, yeah, I just want money? Kind of.

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Speaker 1: It was different at times, Yeah, different times. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: started as just money because it was power and we

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Speaker 1: didn't have stuff, and we definitely did have some neighbors

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Speaker 1: who had stuff and we didn't have much stuff. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: later on when we started making music and stuff, it

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Speaker 1: was to buy four tracks and to buy guitars, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, we would go to pawn shops and even

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Speaker 1: when you go to a pawn shop, it was just

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Speaker 1: like the mentalities like don't make mom wait too long,

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Speaker 1: like know what the fuck you want? We would call

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Speaker 1: the music shop when we're ten years old, try and

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Speaker 1: make deals, to discuss in fucking detail what the snare

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Speaker 1: was like and what the ship was like, so that

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Speaker 1: when you showed up with genuinely sometimes piles of fives

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Speaker 1: and ones, we would go in and make a transaction happen.

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Speaker 1: Which is all to say they did a really good

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Speaker 1: job raising us to be resourceful by robbing us of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and we have very quickly turned around and

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Speaker 1: spoiled a ship out of our children. Yeah, it do

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Speaker 1: you want? What do you want? Honey? What do you need?

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Speaker 1: How can I support you? What are your feelings? Tell

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Speaker 1: me all of them so I can save it all

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Speaker 1: and not equip you with any of the skills to

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Speaker 1: deal with the real world. It's funny you bring that

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Speaker 1: up because I was going to ask that question, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, now you have your kids, I mean,

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Speaker 1: those values are still deep in you. We talk about

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Speaker 1: that you must instill that to some extent. No, I

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Speaker 1: mean even though they get more. But is that I

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Speaker 1: think there's it's a half and half thing for me

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Speaker 1: and my household. And it's not dissimilar with Jay. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're very similar in this regard. It's like there's the

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Speaker 1: survivor's guilt mentality of we felt like we worked really

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Speaker 1: really hard to break in as artists and it kind

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Speaker 1: of almost killed us emotionally, spiritually, physically. So when we

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Speaker 1: see our kids exhibiting some of the behavior that they

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Speaker 1: might want to go on this track, we want to

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Speaker 1: make that road easier on them. We want to support

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Speaker 1: them because we don't want them to suffer. It's just

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Speaker 1: something I cannot curb in myself because I love them

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Speaker 1: and they're my children. But at the same time, my

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Speaker 1: brain is telling me, stop it. You're robbing them of

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Speaker 1: the necessary skill sets you developed on this journey. Stop it,

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Speaker 1: stop and stop it. Did you guys parent each other?

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Speaker 1: Did you guys parent each other? I'm just curious because

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Speaker 1: Mark and I feel like, in retrospect we realized that

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Speaker 1: we parented each other quite a bit along the way,

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Speaker 1: like we really kind of worked on that for each other.

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Speaker 1: Question that. I mean, if you think about it, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm consciously unconscious parenting. That could be our new book.

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Speaker 1: But you could make a lot of money on that book,

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Speaker 1: if you guys want to let me know, you can

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Speaker 1: sell that book on the title alone. Oh my god. Yes.

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Speaker 1: But when you think about it, like when when I

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Speaker 1: had my first, like real heartbreak, it was you in

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Speaker 1: the big times. I was there and then you were

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Speaker 1: there when I constantly fall down. It was different though,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were off doing our own things for

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Speaker 1: the most part. I mean, you guys seemed to be

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Speaker 1: like this. You guys, we were lockstep. You were sleeping

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Speaker 1: in the same twin bed. This is what I read,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, guys, it's really it sounds like we

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Speaker 1: made that up. Okay, but let's let's talk about this

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Speaker 1: for a second. Like was there another bed right next

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Speaker 1: to the two twins? Yeah? Our own rooms. Here's the

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Speaker 1: here's the truth, guys. We each had our own bedroom.

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Speaker 1: I had a full sized bed, Jay had two twin beds,

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Speaker 1: and we slept in one of Jay's twin beds. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, old figure out like you were like eight

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Speaker 1: and twelve, or I mean from younger than that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and onward, you know, but still it lasted for a while.

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Speaker 1: You probably until I was like eleven. Do you remember

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Speaker 1: the moment where it was like, hey, buddy, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to sleep in here tonight and we need

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Speaker 1: to figure out a different sleeping arrangement. Was there that?

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Speaker 1: No consciousness whatsoever on my part? How about you? Mark?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, honestly, that sounds so logical

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Speaker 1: when you say that, and I can't imagine how that

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Speaker 1: didn't come up. But if I'm being totally honest, Jay

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Speaker 1: and I just very strange and very different in the

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Speaker 1: way that we related. And I attribute most of this

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Speaker 1: to Jay being someone who was four years older than me,

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Speaker 1: who was willing not only to hang out with me,

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Speaker 1: but actually willing to relate to me and validate me

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Speaker 1: as I was, and that contributed to this weird little

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Speaker 1: village that we were a village of two people, and

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Speaker 1: every little brother wants to hang out with the older brother,

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Speaker 1: of course, but the older brother doesn't want to do

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Speaker 1: that with a little brother. So that's what keeps it

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Speaker 1: from happening in our village. We had the anomaly of

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Speaker 1: Jay willing to do this thing, and so that's what

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Speaker 1: kept us going for so long. And then what prevented

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Speaker 1: it from shifting, like you're talking about, Oliver, is at

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Speaker 1: a certain point, our personality, our taste levels have always

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Speaker 1: been exactly the same. What we like, what we enjoy,

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Speaker 1: what we want to make, what we want to see.

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Speaker 1: But our personality started to diverge a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: I started to develop this more like brash, confident I'll

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Speaker 1: just barrel forth through the world and hit walls and

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Speaker 1: whatever happens happens. And Jay, who was more intelligent and

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Speaker 1: more mature, started to see the world as a dangerous

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Speaker 1: place that we should be nervous about and that brought

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Speaker 1: his age level down a little bit, my age level up,

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Speaker 1: so we can get closer there. And then when Jay

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Speaker 1: went to college when he was eighteen and I was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: everything shifted in our dynamic because he missed home and

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Speaker 1: he kind of had close to an emotional breakdown being

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Speaker 1: away from our support system. And at that point, he

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Speaker 1: went from being the leader in our village and basically

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Speaker 1: my personal god to meeting me for the first time.

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Speaker 1: And I was just dumb and confident en off at fourteen,

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Speaker 1: basically like you Oliver driving the van around like I

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Speaker 1: got this, you know, to booie him, you know. And

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Speaker 1: then I became kind of an equal at that point.

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Speaker 1: And through the years that dynamic has We're on this

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Speaker 1: flowing little seesaw of like who's going to be the

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Speaker 1: older brother, Who's going to be the big brother. And

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Speaker 1: that's I think why we stayed so close, in how

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Speaker 1: we stayed so connected. Did you have outside friends growing

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Speaker 1: up or was it just you two? Yeah? We did,

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Speaker 1: we did, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had one common

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Speaker 1: friend across the street who was right in between us

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Speaker 1: in age, and that was pretty incredible, Like we but

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Speaker 1: we tried to I don't know. What was interesting is

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Speaker 1: we would I don't know, we subconsciously kind of weeded

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Speaker 1: out the friends who weren't willing to hang out with

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Speaker 1: both of us a lot. I mean, there were definitely

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Speaker 1: times where I was in high school and Mark was

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Speaker 1: in junior high where you know, the age gap shows

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Speaker 1: up much bigger, yep. And so at that time I

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Speaker 1: wasn't like socializing with Mark, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: But I was just like brooding in a corner, wanting

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Speaker 1: to murder him and all of his friends. At that time.

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Speaker 1: I got him, I got him back. So but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we always carved out that time for each other,

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Speaker 1: and we always knew that that was the sacred relationship

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Speaker 1: on some level. And Mark was saying too. When I

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Speaker 1: was in Austin and he was still in New Orleans,

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Speaker 1: it was interesting. I mean, Mark was so advanced for

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Speaker 1: his age. At first, I was flying home to New

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Speaker 1: Orleans because I did miss it, and it is culturally

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Speaker 1: so unusual and so unique that it was very hard

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Speaker 1: for me to adjust out of it. You know, It's

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Speaker 1: like a very old old world place, and Austin is

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Speaker 1: actually a very very new world place. But as we

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Speaker 1: started to realize like how special Austin was. It kind

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Speaker 1: of shifted and then Mark's we started flying Mark out

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Speaker 1: to Austin on like long weekends and stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: Mark became a part of my college experience super early.

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Speaker 1: And like Mark said, I mean, we we did grow

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Speaker 1: up kind of we kind of regard ourselves as like caveman.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I was just very for my age.

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Speaker 1: I weighed like one hundred and twenty pounds in college,

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Speaker 1: Like dating was like kind of not possible for me,

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Speaker 1: and I was like more like the girls that I

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00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 1: was like the boys, that the girls were babysitting more

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Speaker 1: than they wanted to date. Early on, we were just

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Speaker 1: like these two high school looking kids running around Austin, Texas,

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Speaker 1: starting to figure out what a new world might have

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Speaker 1: to offer us. And you know, like Mark said that,

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Speaker 1: around that time, we did start to see people like

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Speaker 1: Richard link later and Robert Rodriguez hanging out around Austin.

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Speaker 1: And that's when it started to occur to us that, oh,

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Speaker 1: people who look like us, who wear jeans and T

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Speaker 1: shirts can also make movies. And Slacker and El Mariachi

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Speaker 1: were twenty thousand dollars. That was still way way more

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Speaker 1: than we could ever think about spending on anything. But

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Speaker 1: it was like a close It was a dollar yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a dollar amount where we were like this,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing. And the diy art making scene

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00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: in Austin, beyond just even filmmaking, just music and people

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Speaker 1: making art and distributing it on their front lawn was

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Speaker 1: like sort of the ethic of that town at that

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00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: time kind of still is was that was? That was?

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Speaker 1: That was huge for us. Yeah, and I think it

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00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 1: made us double down on our brotherhood and our bond

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00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: at that moment of like we're already close, we already

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Speaker 1: share the same taste. Now we're going to try to

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Speaker 1: migrate out of our existing world, which has no connection

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Speaker 1: to the arts or anything, and try to make it

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00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: in an industry which is essentially impossible by by all accounts.

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00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: So we got to stick together even more closely. Zach's

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00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: Mighty Tortilla Chips, I you know, I do these calls

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00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 1: with some of these people, the founders is to talk

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Speaker 1: about stuff. And I actually was in the desert and

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00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 1: talk to this guy, Zach, who created this chip company,

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00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: and they're really fucking good. What's great about them? First

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00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: of all, they're really they taste amazing because of the

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00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 1: specific corn that he uses. It's flint corn. He I

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00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: got the whole rundown on where it came from the

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00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: migration of corn from Mexico into the Northeast. Actually, we

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00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: won't get into that, but it has created a taste

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00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: in this chip that is like I've never had before.

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00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 1: Not only that you can scoop up guacamole and not

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00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: have it break. This is what this chip does. It

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00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: can carry a heavy load and it's not gonna snap,

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00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: it's not gonna get soggy. It's really really incredible. Plus

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00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: they're certified organic and then non GMO verified, which I love.

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00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 1: I'm a chip insane person. No, it's sort of like

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00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 1: I can't see you know, you know what my wife

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00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: is like, fifty percent of our our pantry is chips, okay,

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00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: and then and then half of that fifty percent is

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00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: corn chips. So I'm a bit of a connoisseur. And

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00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: these are honestly some of the favorites. Yeah, next time,

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00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: we also should be eating them while we're doing it,

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00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 1: that's true. So they can't hear a word, right, So

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00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,200
Speaker 1: these are so amazing that we want you to try

379
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: zax Mighty tortilla chips as well, So pick up a

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382
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Speaker 1: a full list of online and in store retailers at

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Speaker 1: zachxmighty dot com. Check these chips out, get your crunch,

384
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385
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Speaker 1: you don't have a whole foods market in your area,

386
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387
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388
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389
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Speaker 1: love this. This is my natural deal that I love.

390
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: I actually just put it on about two hours ago

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00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: and it's my it's my favorite. It's vegan, cruelty free,

392
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: founded by women, and you know, I'm the natural. I

393
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: like a natural, clean product. That's kind of my go to,

394
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: especially for women. And you know, anything with I try

395
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: to not do anything with aluminum under my armpits because

396
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: it's near your lymph nodes, which as we know, is

397
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: not great for cancers. So I try to eliminate any

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Speaker 1: aluminum into my system near an area like that. Each

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400
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402
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403
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404
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405
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406
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407
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408
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417
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Speaker 1: Did you ever think of? Did you ever? Because you

418
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: guys are obviously so realized, and it's almost like you've

419
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: done analysis, even self analysis, and did you ever look

420
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: back at your relationship or still to this day and

421
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: say there is something on health about this. There's a

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00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: codependency that's just Yes, it works for us, but I

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00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: would never I would never say to two brothers, this

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00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: is how you should go down there. Yeah, yeah, one

425
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: hundred percent. I mean, we've talked about it so much.

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00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: I mean a big part of that journey for us

427
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: was actually in the writing of our book, and we

428
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: talked about, really, what does it mean to have been

429
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: this close, what it has done for us, and how

430
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: frankly odd it was to be that close into our

431
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: thirties and our forties. And the first part, the first

432
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: part of it was really, you know, and I'm not

433
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: sure how much of this you guys have experienced, but

434
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: when you migrate from your immediate family, which is your

435
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: siblings and your parents, to the new immediate family, which

436
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: is your spouse and your children, and that was really

437
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: confusing for us and difficult, and we just felt so

438
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: many times, you know, just being like, well, yeah, it's

439
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: me and Jay and the bunk, but whoa, whoa, wait, No,

440
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: this is my wife and my children, and they do

441
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: integrate and it feels normal sometimes, but then sometimes it doesn't.

442
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: And I think that when Jay and I were making

443
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: our TV show Togetherness for HBO, it really was sort

444
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: of like the zenith of our brotherhood as us being

445
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: close personally, us working together fourteen hours a day, side

446
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: by side in a chair, and also us building our

447
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: new immediate families. We both had really young kids. We

448
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: were just like in the shit on every possible level.

449
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: And it was during that time when things really started

450
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: to shift for us about like something's gonna have to

451
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: give here. Everything that we are giving each other and

452
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: our creative and our personal lives, there's not enough life

453
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: force stuff to give that to each other, to give

454
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 1: that to our wives, to our children, to our work,

455
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: and something's got to give. How are we going to

456
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: do this? And it was heartbreaking and it took us

457
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: years to figure that out and come through that. Wow,

458
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: and how did you come to terms with that? And

459
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 1: how did you some sort of I guess you don't compartmentalize,

460
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: but you have to free up energy in space for

461
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: the different relationships that you have in your life. And

462
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: and you guys took up so much of that energy

463
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: in space. How did you parcel that out uncomfortably? Yeah,

464
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think a big part. I mean, in retrospect,

465
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: we kind of now see it as a bit of

466
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: like a conscious uncoupling on some level. You know, it's

467
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: like a healthy divorce on some level. But you know,

468
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: I think it along with everything Mark said too, it's

469
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: like we're middle aged men now too, and our tastes

470
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: are diverging a little bit, and we are not. We don't.

471
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: We've allowed for that space, we almost we allowed for

472
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: it for a while, Yeah, we don't, because we were

473
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: like existing this sort of what I call like an

474
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: immigrant mentality of like we have no business being here.

475
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: We could be killed at any moment. You know. It's

476
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: like that's how our grandparents grew up. They had three

477
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: brothers and they lived in three row houses next to

478
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: each other in New Orleans, and they all owned theify

479
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, business fortified, you know. And so we

480
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: were also feeling those urges too, and so it took

481
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: us a while to kind of come around to this

482
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: idea that as filmmakers too, that we I love the

483
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: stuff that Mark does, and he loves the stuff that

484
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: I do. But that we're also like have evolved to

485
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: be leaders in our own way, and and for us

486
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: to evolve as artists and people. It's like you kind

487
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: of almost need to have your own individual reaction to

488
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: something as it unfolds, you know, like you have to

489
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: own something as an actor. It's just like in the end,

490
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: it's it's on you, It's on your heart, it's on

491
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: your spirit, and it needs to be so that the

492
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: mystery and the surprise can unfold in the right way.

493
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: Part of that we had to figure out and to

494
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: figure out how we can still support each other in

495
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: doing that, you know, And we're lucky to have this

496
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: company and these sort of family members like mel Eslin,

497
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: this incredible woman who runs their company, who kind of

498
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: holds space for us and hold space for the unfolding

499
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: of how it's going to be and how how I'm

500
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: going to help Mark with his stuff and how he's

501
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: going to help me with mine, but to not have

502
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: to be in locksteps so that we're just honestly just

503
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: limited in terms of how we can evolve as like

504
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: people and as filmmakers. I don't know how spiritual you

505
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: guys are, but it sounds to me I'm listening, and

506
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you guys have some past

507
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: life karmic ties and connections. Yeah, it's deeper than just

508
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: like one lifetime. It's like whatever it is that is

509
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: those times where you guys have to really concentrate on

510
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: individuating it's it's bigger than even just the one life

511
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: experience that you've had. Yeah, it's bigger than being brothers.

512
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: It's bigger than making art. It's more like I need

513
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Mark to figure out who I am and what it

514
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: is that I'm doing here, and his existence, his and

515
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: his input in my life is at one hundred percent

516
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: critical to what it is that we're doing here on

517
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: the planet. Because I you know, you felt it in

518
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: the last comment. I mean, I feel like we're both

519
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: moving more towards like what the fuck are we doing here?

520
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: And where is all this leading? And art is a

521
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: part of that, and it's the great expression of that

522
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: that's such a fun part of it. Yeah, but staying

523
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: on that theme, you know, of whether this was cosmic

524
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: intervention or not, you know, going back, it's all cosmic,

525
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: I know it's all, but going back, why love this

526
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: moment that's happening right here? It's my favorite stuff, my

527
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: favorite stuff. There was a pause you guys for Kate

528
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: and Oliver here that was pregnant. If you will, I'll

529
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: just I just put that in an audio moment. I

530
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah, but why do you think that's happened? Like,

531
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: how did this happen? Was there? Could you trace it

532
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: back to being, you know, not really parented or not

533
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: not not parenting but having freedom or why did you

534
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 1: guys get like this? I feel like it's implanted in

535
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: the seeds of who we are as human beings, because

536
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: none of it really makes that much sense to us.

537
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: Our obsession with each other and are a hundred It

538
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: feels like when you see two planets that are sort

539
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: of revolving around each other for like eons and eons

540
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: and you're like, what the fuck. That's what it feels like.

541
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: And it's it's like, I mean, to be completely, completely honest.

542
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: As as as much as Mark and I have similar taste,

543
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: we're very different in a lot of ways, like incredibly different.

544
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: We're incredibly similar in other ways, but we're people who

545
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: know us really well start to realize we're very different

546
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: animals in other ways, and that's a whole other conversation

547
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: about how we feel that we were essentially one being

548
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: that was working together for the first forty years. We

549
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: we're one entity, and we're expressing different parts of one entity.

550
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: And that's truly how we functioned. And that's also why

551
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: our girlfriend relationships early in life were not I know,

552
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: I like, what would it be like one of you guys,

553
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it was like.

554
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: It was basically like, just assume that you are. You

555
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: have decided to come into a threesome, and you come

556
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: in there and you're very, very excited, and then about

557
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: three minutes into it, you realize like they actually just

558
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: don't want you there, and they just start having all

559
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: the great sex about you. They're just they're just using

560
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: you to fuck each other. That's really what happened on

561
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: an emotional and spiritual level with all the well what

562
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: am I doing here? Exactly what am I even doing here?

563
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: But what about what about your current wives? I mean,

564
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: did they have to go through anything to finally accept

565
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: you know that this is who you guys were. I mean,

566
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: you should get them both on here and let them

567
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: tell their last thing I want to do is tell that.

568
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, there were, you know, immense growing pains, and

569
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: that was all part of what Jay was talking about

570
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: with that sort of this is so unique conscious uncoupling.

571
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: But I think that Jay, you really hit on something

572
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: with that sort of the DNA of we came in

573
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: baked to be in each other's orbit and and just

574
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: not normal the way that normal siblings are for whatever reason.

575
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: And I remember distinctly being in eighth grade at the

576
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: height of my like most vapid, pubescent hormone filled stupid

577
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: North American maleness like Beavis and but had obsessed love.

578
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: And I had to read Weathering Heights for school and

579
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: I read Weathering Heights and I'm like, I don't want

580
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: to read this is like the furthest thing and the

581
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: relationship between Heathcliff and Catherine and how they were with

582
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: each other. I was riveted by it, and I was like,

583
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: this is me and Jay I recognized it immediately. I

584
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: am I've never read me when I was like, it's

585
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: kind of weird that I'm thinking about my brother during this,

586
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: but like it's actually really beautiful. I was just saying

587
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: that Oliver has no idea what you're talking about, because

588
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: of course, withering Heights is my favorite book. Oliver's trying

589
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: to pretend like you really understands. Hey, I read I

590
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: read books. Laugh. But it's just jealous my intellect, my

591
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: natural intellect. It's true. It's so true. What about your

592
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: parents in respect to your guys' relationship, Do they ever

593
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: feel left out? No? I think they're just they They

594
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: are very excited about it. They loved it. They they

595
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: love it, and they have They moved to la like

596
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: eight years ago. I mean, you know, these are people

597
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: who never lived more than two miles from where they were,

598
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: grew up in New Orleans, very you know, anchored, old

599
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: world's people. But I think they in a weird way.

600
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: They loved movies. They came from very poor place, and

601
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: their whole mission was like, we're gonna make some motherfucking money.

602
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: That's what That's their whole thing. That was their whole world.

603
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: Our dad went to law school and was like, I'm

604
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: going to it. Whats up a class? And he buried

605
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: his head down and he did it, you know, and

606
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: he brought us to the middle class. And he was

607
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: able to get me and Jay through school and without

608
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: any debt, and then they were able to give us

609
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: like ten thousand dollars in our late twenties to make

610
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: our first feature film, and that's what they wanted to

611
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: do for us. And and so they're really they're incredibly

612
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: supportive from a I would say logistical perspective, and I

613
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: don't want to say materialistic, but just the elements that

614
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: were required to get us there. Yeah, it's like you

615
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: didn't get the bike, but you've got the education and

616
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: you got everything. Yeah, dude, we got all that stuff. Yeah,

617
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: that's so amazing. Are you guys in a breakup phase? Now?

618
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: Is this? I'm feeling like, you know, like you've you've

619
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: recognized that this is a little crazy and now you're

620
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: learning how to be a part. Are you breaking up?

621
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: We're in the post breakup, your post breakup or the

622
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: post the post conscious uncoupling phase, which is I think

623
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: that you know, after we made our show Togetherness, we

624
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: sort of realized that this is going to be hard

625
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: to sustain. And when Togetherness got canceled after the second season,

626
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: we both sort of found ourselves in this very unique

627
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: place of being kind of relieved as much as it

628
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: was a dream to make that show and enjoying that space,

629
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: and a little scared of it. And then I think

630
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: what happened was we had to have a more conscious

631
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: conversation about where do we go from here? You know,

632
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: what's it going to be. And Jay did a really

633
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: good job of taking leadership there. I think that, you know,

634
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: if I'm being totally honest, I was very scared to

635
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: make that change. I was used to the fortification of us.

636
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: I love my brother, I love our collaboration. I had

637
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: already stepped out of our collaboration a little bit. I

638
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: was already making a lot of movies as an actor

639
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: with other collaborators. I was actually already scratching a little

640
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: bit of that itch where Jay hadn't done as much

641
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: of that yet, and he really was able to identify

642
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: that before I was able to see some of the

643
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: unhealthiness of what we were needing outside of just this bond.

644
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: And then there was some timing evolved. To be perfectly

645
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: honest with you, this is like less maybe less interesting,

646
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: but it's true in that, like you know, we're We've

647
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: made a lot of art about white men and their

648
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: feelings for each other through the years, and it sort

649
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: of became a time of do we need to keep

650
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: making this right now? And what could we do with

651
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: our platform that might be a little different than that,

652
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: and supporting other voices and other kinds of stories. So

653
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: so the bifurcation of that unilateral voice into Jay and

654
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: I going off and collaborating with other people using the

655
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: platform to support their stories. That also helps with our

656
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: like survivor's guilt of like giving other people their first

657
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: chance in the industry. You know. So a lot of

658
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: things kind of conspired to make it the right time.

659
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: And so I think that that was more of what

660
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: you're sensing, Oliver. That was more like two or three

661
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: years ago, you know, And I think we found more

662
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: more peaced with that now. And I think now it's

663
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: now sort of like the time of all right, well,

664
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: we've had a little more or that space. And and

665
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: if anything, the last couple of conversations, like Jay's out

666
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh right now shooting the show, and I'm back

667
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: in la shooting on the Morning Show, and we have

668
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: a lot of space, We're finding our conversations starting to

669
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: slightly drift towards this have this idea you're also doing,

670
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: you know, you're both acting a lot in different things.

671
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: So I would think that that in itself it's not

672
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: like you're going to do you know, a three week

673
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: movie Morning show is like six months, and with COVID

674
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: probably like eight months. Yeah, exactly, And jealous. I wish

675
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: I was like you guys. I wish I was like

676
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: more like you guys, like just so many ways. What

677
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: do you mean? You guys seem amazing? What are you

678
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: talking about? No, I'm not saying our relationship. I'm just

679
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: saying you guys are like so cool, and you've got

680
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: this great You've got this great at all you are,

681
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: You've got this great story, you do things that you love,

682
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: you're in fired, and you're also inspirational, and you've worked

683
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: your ass off and it's such a unique voice that

684
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: you guys have brought. Me say something because I think

685
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: this is important. This is a big thing that we learned,

686
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: not just in making our art, because I think the

687
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: best thing that we get back when we make a

688
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: movie is somebody comes up and they say, hey, I

689
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 1: feel less alone because our art is really a lot

690
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: about the struggle and loneliness and intimacy and all that stuff.

691
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: It's so nice for you to say that, but I

692
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: just want to be honest and just say that, like

693
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm in Pittsburgh for three months, trapped in a frozen tundra.

694
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: It feels like I'm in a federal prison in a

695
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: highest house up here. I feel sad and lonely, and

696
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: also I feel confused about all this stuff. Still, it's

697
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: not you know, when we have these talks, it feels

698
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: it's nice to have them because it helps you shelf

699
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: up and articulate in your mind what's happening. Right, But

700
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: we're really just in the middle of it. And I

701
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: wonder if I'll make another piece of art with Mark

702
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: and want it to be great, and there's a lot

703
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: of pressure on it, and there's all that stuff, and

704
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, like our main goal right now is

705
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: to be friends. That's our main goal, because you know

706
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: we have I think the scariest thing, and I think

707
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: we caught it at a good time, is that our

708
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: immigrant mentality and making so much art and fighting so

709
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: hard to break into this kind of impossible world, as

710
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: Mark would say, and being one being is like we're

711
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: both kind of ruthless, like immigrants can be, and we

712
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: were kind of ruthless with each other in a full agreement,

713
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: I mean, in an absolute, full agreement but I think

714
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: part of what we're doing now too is saying that

715
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: we're not willing to cannibalize our brotherhood and our friendship

716
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: and our history just to make a piece of art

717
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: so that it can be successful or so that we

718
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: can like eat food or like do our dreams and stuff.

719
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: We're kind of reorienting to say that, how do we

720
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: be brothers again, and how do we do it without

721
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 1: being lockstep in like a piece of art that feels

722
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: like it's trying to kill you at all times. It's

723
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: a weird reorientation, and it's like we don't have any

724
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 1: more rules anymore, and we're also like old and shit,

725
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: and there's a pandemic going on, right, So I just

726
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: wanted to say that, like we haven't figured out. It's

727
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: a very good point. It's a very good point. Jay

728
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: and I have unfortunately gotten good at the art of

729
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: distilling these feelings and saying them in multi syllabic ways

730
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: that make us sound like we've got them more under

731
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: control than we do. But we don't. Yeah, no, no,

732
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: you wrote. I was just reading some of the things

733
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: that you guys wrote, and one of them is the

734
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: art of compromise is one of the hardest things we've

735
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: had to learn over the years. So it's not like

736
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: all of the relationship or the power of the relationship

737
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: was like all you know what I mean, Well, we're

738
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: constantly having it. Well, actually, it's a good question, like

739
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: when there is a moment you do disagree in an

740
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: artistic way, how do you get through that? And do

741
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: you ever not? I mean meaning like do we say,

742
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: how do you who wins? It's a great question, and

743
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: it's something that we have nuanced a lot through the years.

744
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: The way we traditionally have dealt with it is that

745
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: we have this belief right or wrong, that no matter

746
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: how passionate one or the other person might be about

747
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,479
Speaker 1: their perspective, there's a good chance that that person is wrong.

748
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: And the reason we feel that way is because coming

749
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: up making art the way we did, we made so

750
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: much bad art that our egos were beaten out of us.

751
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: And we just know that, like, as convinced as you

752
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: are that you are right, you have a really good

753
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: chance that you are wrong. So what we try to

754
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: do is just be objective about it. And so Jay

755
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: will have a thing he wants to do, and I'll

756
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: have a thing I want to do, and then we

757
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: look at each other and one of us will get

758
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: the sense that the other one is a little bit

759
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: more passionate about it, a little bit more stuck on it,

760
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: or maybe just has a little bit better of a

761
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: chance of being right about it, and that person usually

762
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: gets a chance to win there. And we know that

763
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: in the history of our relationship it will totally even

764
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: out and go the other way at some point. And

765
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: then if we can't agree, like if if we're on

766
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: a scene we're shooting, we'll shoot both options and we'll

767
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: see what happens. But the core of it is that

768
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: we don't often get gridlock because we being that lockstep

769
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: group of people that we used to be. There is

770
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: this essential belief that this person, my partner, has just

771
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: as good of a chance of being right as I do,

772
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: is convinced as I am that I am right, because

773
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: we just just don't know. Art is a great mystery.

774
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: What about jealousy, Yeah, you know, I'm not jealous plenty either. Yeah,

775
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: not jealous at all. I mean it has played. It

776
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: has played a weird part in our relationship, and it

777
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: came out in different forms than I expected. You know,

778
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: there's the obvious jealous stuff of just like you know, well,

779
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: I wish I wish Amanda Pete had invited me to

780
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: go to Pittsburgh to do that show. That's kind of cool.

781
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: Did she like Jay? Is he the better du plus brother?

782
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: Is there an empirically better due plus brother? Oh God?

783
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: Oh God does that? And then but you know, for me,

784
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: the the other aspect of it is Jay and I

785
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: discovered at some point that we had a hard time

786
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 1: being at parties together because we occupy a similar space

787
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: in a conversation. We have some similar jokes that we

788
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: tell we have a similar lane, like we would just

789
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: did that one. He just did that bit. Yeah, like

790
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: it's so weird, like you would like this, and we

791
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: kind of get like kind of get like like grossed

792
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: out by each other. Like it was really hard for

793
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: me to do one of my bits in front of

794
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: Jay because like he knows me so well, and it's

795
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: like I feel kind of gross and false, and also

796
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: he has a chance to do it in that conversation

797
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: and so every now. I remember one time Jay and

798
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: I were like at our closest and togetherness. It just

799
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: worked together like a twelve hour day and we're at

800
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: one of those industry awards parties, and we saw each

801
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: other from across the room and it was like, that's

802
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: my brother, I'm gonna see. We both kind of looked

803
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: at each other and both had without even saying, I

804
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: had this acknowledgement just like I don't want to be

805
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: with you here, and we're just like you say, didn't

806
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: even talk to each other. You'll be over there over here. Yeah,

807
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dazzle this group of people, and you do that,

808
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: never the tweens shall meet. Get the fuck off, my

809
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: dazzled bitch. That's so funny. I'm not jealous. There's end,

810
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 1: there's envy. But then I put it back on myself,

811
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, even going back to how I said that,

812
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: you know I would I was you, guys, I would

813
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: amend that by saying that I feel like I have

814
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: untapped talent and it exists sort of in your space,

815
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: in the in the writing and the directing and the creation.

816
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: In my vision, I feel like I have a unique vision,

817
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: a unique head, a unique mind. But I am too

818
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: content with just doing what I'm doing. And then I oscillate.

819
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, but I but I need to do more,

820
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: and I feel like I've got more to give. But

821
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: then I'm like, but you know, I'm having a beer

822
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: with my kids, and when I'm living my life and

823
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get in my trailer, I'm gonna go out

824
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: to Dodge right exactly, and I live a deathbed scenario.

825
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: It's like, what am I gonna remember when I'm on

826
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: my deathbed? Is it gonna be an award? Is it

827
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: gonna be this? Or is it gonna be these times

828
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: that I have experienced with my family. And not that

829
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: you can't have both, but I do wish I had

830
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: more of that work ethic, that belief in myself and

831
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 1: not being so overwhelmed by the process, have an idea,

832
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: and then I get so overwhelmed by the finish line

833
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: that I just quit. Can I offer one thing to

834
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: that end that may or may not be useful at all?

835
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: This is just my projection, and the place I'm coming

836
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: from is the part of me that feels so deeply

837
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: compelled and is willing to put aside the fear and

838
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: intimidation that you're talking about of how hard it is

839
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: to get to the finish line. That is a dark

840
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: place inside of me that will never be fulfilled enough

841
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: by the lovely family time, by the pool, and by

842
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: that sense of contentment that you actually already at least

843
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: have some of in your life. That's what I'm looking

844
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: for that I'm not sure I'm ever going to get,

845
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: so I will just offer you one person's perspective of

846
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: I would trade a lot of that to receive some

847
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: of that contentment that you have in your DNA as well.

848
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get closer to to where you are.

849
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a bad thing, right same, I would

850
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: totally agree, And like I would go one step further

851
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: and say that Mark and I did not enjoy our

852
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: lives very much at all. For the first thirty years.

853
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: We were like when other people were out in Austin

854
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: enjoying music, and we did it some. We were at home,

855
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: beating the hell out of each other, trying to like

856
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: make a good song come out of our bodies, trying

857
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: to make a good script come out of our bodies,

858
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: and failing, fucking relentlessly for decades. Yeah, and this and

859
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: the compulsion of it is also a thing that I

860
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: would say is like unhealthy. I'm with you, whereas as

861
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: I wish I could have, like sometimes I get jealous

862
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: of Alliver's satisfaction of nice like being out in and

863
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: just kind of like moving to Colorado and I'm sitting

864
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: there going what the fuck are you doing? Like like

865
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: I She's like, what are you doing? You need to

866
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: come home. I'm like, Kate, I'm like happy here she goes,

867
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: but what are you doing with your life? Yeah? And

868
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, Kate, I love you. I love you for caring,

869
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: but like I'm pretty good right now. And then I'm like, yeah,

870
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: but everything that I do, it's like I can't. I

871
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: have to stop myself sometimes and be like stop moving,

872
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: stop thinking about things all the time and what you

873
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: have to do and how you have to work something.

874
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: And you know, I bought this amazing book called How

875
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,399
Speaker 1: to Do Nothing that is all about this, and I've

876
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: had it for a year and I haven't read it

877
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 1: yet because you know, because that's we are who we are.

878
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 1: But I've got it. So I have a similar book

879
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: called The Art of Not Giving a Fuck, and I

880
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 1: haven't read it. You are I've heard of that one.

881
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: I give way too many fucks? Oh problem I have

882
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 1: that Literally, it stares at me. You love untethered soul,

883
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: well that you have to read. That's like, that's a

884
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: great book. That's my bible too. I'm given that book

885
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: to probably twenty people. I read that book and it

886
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: changed my life for a good forty five minutes. Yeah no, no,

887
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: so I went right back into my old habits. It

888
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: gave me a good year. Ye good, Yes. Isn't it funny?

889
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: How do that they literally get into your psyche for

890
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: a certain extended period of time. Like I'm reading Undaunted Courage,

891
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: which is the Lewis and Clark book, and it's the

892
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: Discovery of the West basically, and I'm so deep into

893
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: this story and now i want to like live primitively.

894
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: I'm open fire cooking. I have a new obsession with

895
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: open fire cooking. Now you're gonna you're gonna get a

896
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: week out of that. All that's gonna be great, or

897
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: at least another excuse to not be working. Or I'm

898
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: just gonna go I'm gonna go west. It's gonna go west.

899
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: Oh man, you guys are so awesome. This has been

900
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 1: such a guys right Saturday, Okay, let's do this. I'm

901
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: just gonna say real quick, I just want to say

902
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: that people ask Mark and me to do this a lot,

903
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: and we have done this so much over the last

904
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: twenty years that we always say no, but you guys

905
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: are really fucking special and you guys made this really fun.

906
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: Thank so, thank you, Oliver. I am currently in the

907
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: market for a helix. Yes you are, Kate, and I

908
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: need it. I was just saying to Danny, yes, last

909
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: night we're sleeping and I was like, it's time we

910
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: need a new mattress. We haven't been sleeping well and

911
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: we were like, God, I can't really sleep well. I

912
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, shit not sleeping. Look, you're

913
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: right now, you're yawning right now because you're not getting

914
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: good sleep and you're got healing helix. I have. I

915
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: have had a helix. I have had a helix on

916
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: my bed for a long long time now. It's really

917
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: an incredible mattress. You take a quiz, a little two

918
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: minute quiz, you know, you you give the ins and

919
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: the outs of how you sleep, whether you're a side

920
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: sleep or a back sleeper. You know, these sleep hot

921
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: or cold or this and that, and it spits out

922
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: this perfect mattress for you. So if you like a

923
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: mattress that's really soft or firm, you know, if you

924
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: if you sleep on your side or your stomach, your back,

925
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: Helix will have that exact mattress for you. Just a

926
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: quick quick quiz. They got our back. So I sleep

927
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: on my Helix mattress. I fall asleep very, very easily.

928
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: They have a ten year warranty. You get to try

929
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: it for one hundred nights risk free. They're gonna pick

930
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: it up for you if you don't love it, but

931
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: you will. Helix is offering up to two hundred dollars

932
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our

933
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: listeners at Helixsleep dot com slash sibling that's Helix h

934
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: E l i X Sleep dot com slash sibling for

935
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: up to two hundred dollars off. So I just want

936
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: to I just want to talk a little bit about

937
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: the Lady in the Day. Yes, you know, because you're

938
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: talking about not doing things together, but here we are

939
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: doing Lady in the Dale. This is what is then. Yeah.

940
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: So this is a documentary series that we have executive

941
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: produced together, and it's an incredible true story about a

942
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: woman named Liz Carmichael who in the nineteen seventies invented

943
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: the three wheeled car to sort of take on the

944
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: male dominated auto industry and the gas crisis, and she's

945
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: a very complicated figure. She's definitely a bit of a

946
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: schemer and definitely cut some corners. But at the same time,

947
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: she was attacked by the media in a kind of

948
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: grandiose way once they discovered that Liz Carmichael was a

949
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: trans woman. And so it's a four part doc series.

950
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: It's on HBO Max right now, and it really is

951
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: just what's amazing about it I find is that if

952
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,879
Speaker 1: this was a cis white male, we would have had

953
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 1: five movies about this story about what an amazingly complex character,

954
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: and Tom Hanks would have played it. But this story

955
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: has been buried. She has been erased. All trans people

956
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: are history are generally okay right back then, it's been buried.

957
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: Right now, there's probably a ton of stories. I mean,

958
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: some of it is accidental, some of it is like

959
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: our systems do not track this. Some of it is malicious.

960
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: So it's how did you guys stumblety? It was brought

961
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: to us by a filmmaker named Nick Camillary who had

962
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: been working on it for about ten years and was

963
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: just really having trouble getting it set up and even

964
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: just cracking the story because it just wasn't out there.

965
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: And when Mark and I first heard about it, you know,

966
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: we it's almost like it We couldn't believe it, and

967
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: we so we reached out to one of my really

968
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: good friends from Transparent. Her name is Zachary Drucker, and

969
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: she's a trans historian, she's an artist, she's a filmmaker,

970
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,920
Speaker 1: she's a producer, and we were like, what is this?

971
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: Is this real? She had not even heard about it,

972
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: and so she ended up coming aboard, becoming a producer,

973
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: becoming the co director of the documentary, and it's I

974
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: can't It's pretty exciting. I mean we we really did

975
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: get incredible feedback on Sila from Welldwell Country as being

976
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: like one of the most thrilling characters to appear in cinema,

977
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: and Mark and I looked at each other when we

978
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: won the Emmy and we were like, Okay, well that's

979
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: a one. That's a woner. That's you get that one

980
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 1: time in life. And weirdly, and this is partially because

981
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: of the gift of that film with with You, you know,

982
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: your cousins Liz Carmichael is probably going to give Shila

983
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 1: a run for her money. She's un believable. I can't wait.

984
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm loving these four part docs. Now that's like the standard.

985
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: Everything is a four part documentary. It's a great form.

986
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: It's really wonderful. Documentaries have gotten their due after after

987
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: so much time. Yeah, right, you know, the masses, everybody's

988
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: going to see him. It's awesome, awesome, And your book.

989
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 1: When does the book come out? So? Uh, the book

990
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: is February ninth. This is our paperback condition, which has

991
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: some extra material and sort of goes a little further

992
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: into where our relationship has been heading. As we talked

993
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: about on the podcast here. How was that writing process crazy? Yeah,

994
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: I mean, as anyone will tell you, you you know, when

995
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: you whenever you write a book, you try to give

996
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: the advance back three or four different times and go

997
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: kill yourself in the desert. But it did not work,

998
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: and we find somehow made it through. But it was

999
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: actually really therapeutic for us, honestly. I mean, the book

1000
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: is really an examination of the art of collaboration and

1001
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: how to get the best out of each other without

1002
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: destroying each other, but also an examination of our brotherhood,

1003
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, and what it's brought us and some of

1004
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: the negatives of that too, and it was it was

1005
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: a learning it was a learning curve. Honestly, I think

1006
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: the reason we took this book and we didn't even

1007
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: really know it, is that this was going to be

1008
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: a way for us to dig into the next phase

1009
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: of who we were going to be, and it helped

1010
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: us get there. That's amazing, Kate. We should write a book.

1011
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm scared terrifying. You should be. You should be, but

1012
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: that's probably that's probably why you got to do it. Okay,

1013
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: speed round. I do want to propose one thing that

1014
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: that we that I can be friends with you at

1015
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: some point and maybe yeah, a mentor, even though I'm

1016
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: forty five years old. Okay. One word to describe each other.

1017
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god, true strong? Mark said, Jay is true,

1018
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: and Jay said because a voice. Mark is Yeah, there's similar.

1019
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: This is one word to describe your relationship. Oh this

1020
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: is an interesting Now I guess currently m hm. My

1021
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: first response was just forever, but then you said now,

1022
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: so I'll think about now. Yeah, this is Mark and

1023
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: I would say new mm hmm, kindling, kindling, kindling, kindling, Yeah,

1024
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: I like that. That goes with my whole open fire

1025
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: cooking thing. Is going to be kindling all night. Also,

1026
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: Mark's going to be stalking you, because Mark is Mark's

1027
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: favorite single thing in this whole world is fire. Fire.

1028
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really, oh my god, I've become obsessed with fire.

1029
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: I've become obsessed with all the different kinds of woods,

1030
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: all the hardwoods and the soft woods, and how they

1031
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: burn and the kind of burn they give off. Just

1032
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: what I want to see right now is Mark. Space

1033
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: disappears from the screen and I hear a ding dong. Yeah,

1034
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: that's literally instantly at your house. Wait, are you obsessed

1035
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: with fire as a cooking as a tool or are

1036
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: you obsessed with fire period? Mostly it's as a like

1037
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: as a meditation source. Light a fire at a campfire

1038
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: at my house, the you know, the fireplace, all of that.

1039
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Are you a fire sign? No, I don't know. I'm sagittarius.

1040
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,919
Speaker 1: You go, Okay, who cries more? I think I think

1041
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: we're even. Yeah, I think that Jay cries more frequently.

1042
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: But when I cry, it's like big, It's like, do

1043
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: we need to go to the hospital? Dangerous? That's very

1044
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: very true. I cry more frequently, and Mark is like, Okay,

1045
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: we're going to the emergency. But the rain, but the

1046
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: average annual rainfall is the same. I would agree, what song,

1047
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: what one song would sum up your childhood? M summer

1048
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: breathe mm. Mark and I did a lot of cover

1049
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: songs of Lionel Richie as an acoustic duo in New Orleans. No, yeah,

1050
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: I was. I was just listening to Little Yeah Yeah.

1051
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: Duels says something about Christopher Crosses sailing on the Basis

1052
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: for Me, which we later found out was written about

1053
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: the lake outside of Austin that we oh really, Oh

1054
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: my god, Sailing is one of my favorite fucking songs.

1055
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: Takes me away where? Okay, first live show, mm, Rolling Stones,

1056
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: Steel Wheels Tours, come on. It was the Steel Wheels.

1057
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, it was my first one. And then

1058
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: and then it was George Michael. George Michael was amazing.

1059
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: Face mine was. I was at the Steel Wheels tour.

1060
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: Mine was cutting Crew Bangles nineteen eighty. Oh my god,

1061
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. The Bengals, the Bangles. I'm still getting oversession

1062
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: with her. It's just another man, It's not the Bengals

1063
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: written by Prince wrote that song. You can, by the way,

1064
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: when when you do know that, I mean you hear

1065
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: Prince all over that track. Yeah, I mean it's right there.

1066
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: First celebrity crush, like when you were kids, Olivia Newton

1067
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: John Grace, Oh my god, hot, I mean yet that,

1068
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: but but what what about when she trans what about

1069
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 1: when she transformed? That's what I'm saying. You get, you get,

1070
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: you get everything. Yeah, yeah, you know it is that's

1071
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: why she was so wonderful. She looked like my mom,

1072
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: and then she wasn't. And I was like, this is great.

1073
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of my first crush. It might

1074
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: be Olivia Newton John. But I liked her in the

1075
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: before better than the after. I was a little I

1076
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: was like, whoa. I was like scared, in on my heels,

1077
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: teased hair and shit. I was just like, I'm not ready.

1078
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's a good call, Mark. I think

1079
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah, okay, who's the better at assembling things? Like? Okay?

1080
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: So Jay was obviously four years older. He learned how

1081
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: to read the manual first, and I'm not kidding you,

1082
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: I cannot put together anything to this day because he

1083
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 1: learned it and I never learned it. And when Katie

1084
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: and I got married, I mean she just like looked

1085
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: at me. At a certain point when we had to

1086
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: like put together a piece of Ikea furniture and she

1087
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: was just like, really, like you literally are this useless?

1088
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: How is it possible you've gotten through the world at

1089
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: this point? Where do you? Where do you? Guys differ

1090
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: the most, you know what I mean, like, where are you?

1091
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: Where are you? Worlds apart? If you are at all

1092
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: in anything? That's a good question. The first thing that

1093
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: occurs to me when you say that is that the

1094
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: the the the instinctual, brazen confidence that I have of

1095
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: youth has not been knocked out of me just yet.

1096
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: So when it comes time for us to say should

1097
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: we do X, whether it's a project, whether it's go

1098
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: camping in the Grand Canyon without a permit, it is

1099
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: always me being like yes, and always Jay being like WHOA,

1100
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: maybe not? And thank god he is there to do that,

1101
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: and thank god I am there to do that, because

1102
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,479
Speaker 1: somewhere between the two of us we find a way

1103
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: of making it work. Yeah. Yeah, when you ask the question,

1104
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: the words that came into my mind where Mark is

1105
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: a sprinter and I am long distance And that is

1106
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: literally what we were in high school, Like Mark was

1107
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: a sprinter and I was cross country, but it's also

1108
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: in scripts, like Mark is so incredible in a first draft,

1109
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: but the idea for Mark of writing twenty drafts of

1110
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 1: something is like he would rather jump off the building.

1111
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 1: And also like editorial, we have been through like seven

1112
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: month editorials sometimes and it's just like it so we yeah, yeah, yeah.

1113
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 1: Even when we did our like conscious uncoupling, it was

1114
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: a little hard. Mark was like it felt like forever

1115
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: to him, and I was trying to communicate that this

1116
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: is a long game, you know, and we've been doing

1117
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: this for three days, man, but you know, and and

1118
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: what's been interesting too is now that we're doing more

1119
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 1: stuff on our own, I've had to learn how to

1120
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,919
Speaker 1: throw myself off of a cliff more because usually Mark

1121
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: would just be like, uh, sorry, but you know, it

1122
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: was like you know, when you parachute and you have

1123
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: to be hooked to somebody else, Like We're staying on

1124
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 1: the cliff looking over, and Mark would just like secretly

1125
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: like put a hook into my belt loop while I'm

1126
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: not looking and be like I'm really but you know,

1127
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: And of course I resented the funk out of it

1128
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: while we were like three falling in the air. But

1129
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: that one moment, as you guys know as creators, that

1130
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: is that's the hardest moment. That is the single hardest

1131
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: moment of any creation. Our speed round is so slow,

1132
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: you guys slow, all right. Who's the stricter parent? I

1133
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I think I think I am. Katie and

1134
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: I are a little strict. I don't know if it's

1135
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: a good thing or not, but I think I am.

1136
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm strict too, but that probably means

1137
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: we're both super permissive. What was your favorite working experience together.

1138
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's got to be a tough one. The

1139
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: first short film for me that we that was good

1140
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: was called This is John, and it was just an

1141
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: idea and it was Mark essentially improvising, trying to perfect

1142
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: a personal greeting of outgoing message of his answering machine.

1143
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: It lasted eighteen minutes and it was like the first time.

1144
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: It was the first time that I saw Mark. It

1145
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: was the first time that we were expressing ourselves and

1146
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: uniquely what we have to offer. And it was the

1147
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: first time I was behind a camera, laughing and like

1148
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 1: being riveted by what was in front of the camera

1149
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: instead of that thing that happens as Indie filmmakers where

1150
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: we're like, I think we got it. You know, if

1151
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: you're saying that you didn't get it, you didn't get shit.

1152
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: You know, you learn later that when it happens, it happens,

1153
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: and it goes in the camera or it doesn't. You know.

1154
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: That for me was It'll never be more thrilling than that.

1155
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even understand it at the time. I was

1156
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, it just was a different

1157
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: thing than we had done before. That's cool. There was

1158
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: a moment for me when we were shooting the pilot

1159
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: of Togetherness and we were shooting the last scene of

1160
01:07:55,720 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: the pilot and it just wasn't there and it wasn't

1161
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: working the way we wanted it to do, and we

1162
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: were feeling the apparatus of the larger budget machine, you know,

1163
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: where you feel like the clock is ticking, everything is expensive,

1164
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: and we just felt like, well, we got to stay

1165
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: on budget, we got to stay on schedule, and we

1166
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: just kind of made this decision of just like no,

1167
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: like we got to do what we used to always do,

1168
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: which is when it's not working, we stop, because you're

1169
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: going to make something bad if you keep moving forward.

1170
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: Just to stay on schedule, and we took a walk

1171
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: around the block and we talked to our actors and

1172
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: we found a new way into the scene, and then

1173
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 1: we ended up getting it. And I remember looking at

1174
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 1: Jay after that and feeling like we had kind of

1175
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: come full circle of like we captured what we used

1176
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 1: to be good at as like kids, as artists and

1177
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 1: brought it into the grown up Hollywood machine and found

1178
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 1: a way to like keep our special spirit inside of

1179
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: the machine. It felt so cool. Good moments. I love moments.

1180
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: We love those moments. Yeah. Our last questions are usually

1181
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: it's a two part question, and the first part of

1182
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: it is if you could alleviate something from your sibling

1183
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 1: that you believe would better their life, what would that be?

1184
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: And then the other part is if you could emulate

1185
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: something from your brother, from your sibling that you wish

1186
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: you had more of in your life, what would that mean? Wow?

1187
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: A good question. Yeah, it's a really good one. My

1188
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: first thought on the alleviation for Jay as I would

1189
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 1: alleviate whatever it was in his childhood or his DNA

1190
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 1: or anything that I might have done that caused some

1191
01:09:54,640 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 1: of the self doubt that is there and creative decision

1192
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: making and personal decision making. Just just take that away

1193
01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: and try to lay bare some of the certainty that

1194
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: very smart, truthful, soulful, steady human being. You know what

1195
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: you're doing, You're fine, close your eyes, trust your instincts.

1196
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: You're good. Thank you. I think I would alleviate for

1197
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: Mark the desire compulsion need to be everything for everybody emotional.

1198
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 1: I know I don't really do that, though. Do you

1199
01:10:55,439 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 1: guys want some fries or anything? And what would you

1200
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 1: what would you want to take from your brother? What

1201
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: would you want to emulate something you wish you had

1202
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: for yourself. I know very clearly what this is, which

1203
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: is that I have to set this up just a

1204
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 1: little bit. But I am a very forward and brave

1205
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: and bold person in this world, and I'm often the

1206
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: first step, as Jay has said, to lead us into

1207
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: a situation. And I say, get behind me. Jay, I

1208
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: got this, and he gets in my back and we

1209
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: go and we go and we go, and then usually

1210
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: we get to this terrifying point that we could never

1211
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 1: have perceived. And at that point I lose it and

1212
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: I do not have it. And in those ultimate crisis moments,

1213
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 1: Jay is at his absolute best, clear, certain and just

1214
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: great and I would love to have that ability on

1215
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: my own to be able to do that, because that's

1216
01:11:55,080 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: not Yeah, I don't. I mean that's great. I mean

1217
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,560
Speaker 1: mine is probably just the yang of that is. I

1218
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 1: wish that I had Mark's confidence, but I think that's reductive.

1219
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: The way that I the word confidence is I think

1220
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: a little bit reductive in terms of the value that

1221
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: he has it and the way that I see it

1222
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: more now is Mark is like brave in terms of

1223
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: willing to walk into imperfection. That's that's a level of

1224
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: courage that I think is incredibly high value in life.

1225
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's easy to say that somebody has courage

1226
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:47,679
Speaker 1: and you can can be like written off to something

1227
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: you're born with, which Mark does have some of that,

1228
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, but as we all know, especially as creators,

1229
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 1: but everybody in this world, to walk into something with

1230
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: imperfection where you can look fucking bad, it's just something

1231
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: that I am like so enamored with in Mark and

1232
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: amazed by on a regular basis. Love. Yes, I wish

1233
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: I was at the class, Brother Oliver. I present you

1234
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 1: with this plaque my first award. I love you, guys,

1235
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: Love you guys, thank you for I love you guys,

1236
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: this is wonderful, awesome. I hope in all of this

1237
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: we can all hang out. Sometimes I love it too.

1238
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: Oh God, I can't wait. I can't wait. I feel

1239
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: like we can just know. I know. Sibling Revelry is

1240
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is

1241
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 1: Alison President, Editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson

1242
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,400
Speaker 1: a k a. Uncle Mark. If you want to show

1243
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: us some love, rate the show and leave us a review.

1244
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: The show is powered by simplecast