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Speaker 1: One of the issues that animates so many of us

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Speaker 1: living in states like California, but people all across the

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Speaker 1: United States, from Florida, Louisiana, people in states that have

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Speaker 1: been ravaged by some of the most extreme storms and

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Speaker 1: our lifetime hurricanes, floods, fires here on the West Coast.

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Speaker 1: I think all recognize the imperative of focusing on the

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Speaker 1: issue of climate change. Of course, so much of our

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Speaker 1: focus is moved in other directions, but mother Nature, she

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Speaker 1: bats last, and she bats a thousand and that's why

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Speaker 1: this week, as we celebrate Earth Day in the United

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Speaker 1: States of America, I thought it was important to talk

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Speaker 1: about the state of climate policy in the United States

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Speaker 1: of America. California just reached two thirds of all of

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Speaker 1: our electricity now renewable electricity. We're in the how business,

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Speaker 1: and my next guest is also focused on how America

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Speaker 1: can lead the globe on low carbon green growth. This

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Speaker 1: is Gavin Newsom and this is Senator Sheldon Whitehouse Well, Senator,

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Speaker 1: thanks for taking the time to be on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and I thought it was a great time to have

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Speaker 1: a chance to sit down and talk to you about

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Speaker 1: one of the most pressing issues of our time. That's

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Speaker 1: issue of climate and what the climate is in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. The Trump administration has come in even more

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Speaker 1: ferociously from my perspective, trying to analyze some of the

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Speaker 1: progress that we've made here in the state of California,

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Speaker 1: but all across the United States. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: progress that was advanced you advanced in your colleagues during

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration and the IRA and the Infrastructure Bill,

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Speaker 1: promises that were promoted in Project twenty twenty five that

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Speaker 1: are taking shape. The EPA coming out with a set

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Speaker 1: of recommendations and rulemaking that they're looking to advance that

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Speaker 1: is jaw dropping. So I really appreciate the timeliness of

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Speaker 1: your visit and the opportunity to dialogue about some of

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Speaker 1: these things. Tell me what I don't know in this space,

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Speaker 1: and tell me what folks listening should know about the

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Speaker 1: state of climate policy in America.

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Speaker 2: I think what most people don't know is how close

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Speaker 2: we are to a climate driven economic collapse that comes

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Speaker 2: when climate risk becomes uninsurable so you can't get up

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Speaker 2: property insurance policy on your home. There are plenty of

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Speaker 2: Californians who are experiencing that. And then when you can't

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Speaker 2: get property insurance on your home, you can't get a

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Speaker 2: mortgage on it, you can't sell it to somebody who

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Speaker 2: needs a mortgage. So unless you're selling it to a

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Speaker 2: billionaire who can pay cash, you're screwed. So no mortgage

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Speaker 2: means your property values crash. And when your property values crash,

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Speaker 2: if that happens to enough people, which it will, because

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Speaker 2: this is driven by climate risk that touches millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of people, you then get an economic wipeout, like

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Speaker 2: the two thousand and eight mortgage meltdown caused across the country,

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Speaker 2: harming people who had no problems with their mortgage. It

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Speaker 2: was just the economic wipeout.

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Speaker 1: So someone listening may think that may be slightly hyperbolic.

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Speaker 1: Then again, folks living on the coasts, folks living in

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Speaker 1: the South, in places like Louisiana, obviously in Florida, not

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Speaker 1: just in California, are feeling that reality. Obviously, the wildfires

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Speaker 1: here in the Western United States, of the hurricanes in

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Speaker 1: the southern part of the country. What is a what's

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Speaker 1: the national prism them to begin to address this issue. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we've got to deal with some of the underlying issues

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Speaker 1: of climate change. But in an adaptation policy. We often

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Speaker 1: are talking about sea level rise, we're talking about other

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Speaker 1: strategies to mitigate, but you're talking about a looming financial crisis.

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Speaker 1: Chris raises the bar of concern. Correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Florida, I think is first and worst. Florida

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Speaker 2: has more liability from the fund it's set up to

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Speaker 2: backstop the insurers who go bust there, which is like

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Speaker 2: a dozen already because they're basically little pop ups that

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Speaker 2: aren't for real, right, and the state steps in when

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Speaker 2: they don't pay claims, and then the taxpayer has to pay.

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Speaker 2: And they've got a separate state backed insurance company that

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Speaker 2: is trying to look like an insurance company and carrying

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Speaker 2: all this liability that probably they won't be able to

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Speaker 2: make good on. Those two risks to ensure to Florida

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Speaker 2: are bigger than the state's actual sovereign debt. So there's

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Speaker 2: a huge overhang over Florida and it's going to do

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Speaker 2: nothing but get worse. You've got property insurance rates that

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Speaker 2: have tripled in a lot of places in Florida and

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Speaker 2: that are expected to triple again. You know, that's really brutal.

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Speaker 2: And when that happens, it starts cascading out through the economy.

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Speaker 2: The International Financial Stability Board put out a global warning

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Speaker 2: to banks look out for this. This is coming because,

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Speaker 2: for instance, if all these properties value go down because

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Speaker 2: they're not mortgageable any longer, then their value goes down

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Speaker 2: on the loan to value ratio of a bank. And

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Speaker 2: now suddenly a bank doesn't look solvent any longer, and

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Speaker 2: it's got its own problems. So these problems cascade out

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Speaker 2: into the economy, and that's what we have to prepare

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Speaker 2: people for. And I think you know you asked a

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Speaker 2: great question is what do we do about it? Step

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Speaker 2: one is to stop what is causing this, which is

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Speaker 2: a climate change. But behind that the climate denial operation

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Speaker 2: of the fossil fuel industry, which, through disinformation and political corruption,

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Speaker 2: is just ruining our ability to deal with a problem

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Speaker 2: whose solutions are actually pretty evident if we could get

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Speaker 2: around the wiles and the mischief of the fossil fuel industry.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the clarity on that. I mean, the climate

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Speaker 1: crisis is nothing more than a fossil fuel crisis. Is

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Speaker 1: the burning of oil and gas and.

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Speaker 2: Then lying about it to the public at industrial scale.

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Speaker 1: And having the best scientists having the best researchers in

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Speaker 1: this space for decades and decades and being able to

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Speaker 1: see into the future and then knowingly lied about it.

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Speaker 1: They weren't just in denial, they actually suppressed this information

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Speaker 1: from the public for decades.

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Speaker 2: The scientists have known their stuff about climate this whole time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the scientist community can really take a bow

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Speaker 2: for really excellent presentations and really excellent understanding and predictions.

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Speaker 2: And that includes the ones paid by Exxon.

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Speaker 1: Ago, and Exon needs some of the greatest geologists. They

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Speaker 1: hire some of the best in the brightest minds, best

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Speaker 1: can be broadly described, but for the job intended. So

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Speaker 1: they're to be able to track the talent because they're

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Speaker 1: able to dig deep into their wallet to get that talent.

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Speaker 1: But as a consequence, they're deep deeper into our wallets right.

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Speaker 2: Now because spend similar talent in the disinformation propagandizing, setting

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Speaker 2: up phony front groups.

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Speaker 1: The whole armada.

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Speaker 2: Of disinformation effort that they run is also being done

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Speaker 2: at a very uh I hate to say it, it's

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Speaker 2: being done very professionally.

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Speaker 1: And so, Senator you're one of the few folks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a handful of you, and I you know I

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Speaker 1: give a do where it is deserved. There is a

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Speaker 1: handful of US senators that have the guts because I

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Speaker 1: think it takes guts to say what you just said

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Speaker 1: and the courage to be out front, to call balls

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Speaker 1: and strikes and to call out those that are responsible

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Speaker 1: polluters should pay. But they're socializing the con one one

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Speaker 1: incon one o one on all of us. So the

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Speaker 1: question is why is it just simply because it's electorally

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Speaker 1: ill advised to be so candid? Is it because of

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Speaker 1: the corruption that is sort of imbued in the system.

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Speaker 1: It's the unwilling to take the risk of to be

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Speaker 1: more resolved in this space. Is it just what we've

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Speaker 1: come to expect, and that is big money influencing having

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Speaker 1: outsized influence.

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Speaker 2: Boom, big money having outsized influence. If you set up

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Speaker 2: an enormous armada of phony front groups and you put

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Speaker 2: Madison Avenue tested fake messaging through that, and you backstop

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Speaker 2: it with literally billions of dollars in dark money into Congress,

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Speaker 2: into the back pocket of Mitch McConnell so that he

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Speaker 2: can throw super packs drop ads on Democrats. You put

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Speaker 2: that whole machine together, and up against it, you have

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Speaker 2: Democrats being like well meaning and talking about polar bears.

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Speaker 2: It's like, totally not a fair fight. It's the panzer

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Speaker 2: tanks versus the Polish cavalry. You just don't have a chance.

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Speaker 2: So we need to be much better about it. The

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Speaker 2: good news is we don't have to build the apparatus

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Speaker 2: of lies. All we have to do is build a

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Speaker 2: much more adept and shark apparatus to point out the

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Speaker 2: lies well said, and we'll people see what has been

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Speaker 2: done to them when they understand did what was his name,

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Speaker 2: Harvey used to say, the end of the story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, Yeah, that's the end of the story.

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Speaker 2: That's the end of the story.

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Speaker 1: You allied to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you allied to at an industrial scale.

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Speaker 1: So we're all dealing with the consequences. Of course. You know,

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Speaker 1: as a governor of California that's dealt with more natural

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Speaker 1: disasters than most governors, and I think Jerry Brown could

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Speaker 1: have said that prior to me. And in the last

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Speaker 1: ten years, we've experienced some of the worst wildfires in

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Speaker 1: US history, not just California history. Obviously, the wildfires in

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Speaker 1: southern California that occurred instead of winter, Yeah, nine months,

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Speaker 1: the driest conditions we've experienced down there in modern history,

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Speaker 1: and in January, with one hundred mile an hour winds

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Speaker 1: attached to a fire, we experienced a loss of thirteen

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Speaker 1: plus thousand properties. The issue of insurance, by definition, is

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Speaker 1: top of mind. Is the number one concern people have

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Speaker 1: right now of accessing whatever insurance they had so they

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Speaker 1: can recover their lives and get back on their feet.

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Speaker 1: But the idea of getting back and rebuilding, the number

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Speaker 1: one concern is can I get a mortgage now? Because

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Speaker 1: can that mortgage be attached to a requirement.

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Speaker 2: To have insurance? Yeah, and that's the cascade. You can't

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Speaker 2: predict the risks, so you can't get the insurance. So

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Speaker 2: the buyer who you want to sell your property to

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Speaker 2: you can't get a mortgage, so you have to drop

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Speaker 2: the price, and you've got this property values crash that

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Speaker 2: then cascades out through the economy. And it has been

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Speaker 2: warned of so clearly that the Chairman of the Fed,

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Speaker 2: Jay Powell, Federal Reserve, came a month ago to the Senate,

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Speaker 2: spoke to the Banking Committee and said, you know, ten

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Speaker 2: to fifteen years from now, there'll be whole regions of

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Speaker 2: the United States where you can't get a mortgage anymore.

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Speaker 1: And he's a pretty conservative, I mean not pretty very concerned,

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Speaker 1: not very dreams and not very green. So it's just

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Speaker 1: look at bottom line. Is climate risk is financial risk? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's language. I think hopefully that could bring people

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Speaker 1: to the table on fundamentally addressing the solutions. Now, let's

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Speaker 1: we talk about prevention. We could talk about low carbon

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Speaker 1: green growth, we could talk about decarbonizing our economy and

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Speaker 1: changing the way we produce and consume energy, but also

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Speaker 1: how do we address the situational reality ten or fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: Obviously we're looking at IBPC, we're looking at twenty forty

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Speaker 1: five goals in carbon neutrality, that in that timeline, but

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Speaker 1: beyond that, the insurance market and stabilizing it. It's not

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Speaker 1: unique to Florida, it's not Nique Louisiana, as up in Montana,

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Speaker 1: of all places, they were discussing this as a top priority.

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Speaker 1: Obviously in California, is there a federal frame you talking

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Speaker 1: to your colleagues about a federal strategy to address some

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Speaker 1: of these insurance concerns.

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Speaker 2: I think until we turn the corner on fossil fuel emissions,

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Speaker 2: the insurance industry is going to continue looking out into uncertainty.

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Speaker 2: How bad does this get? Every year that we add

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Speaker 2: more fossil fuel emissions, we add to their uncertainty, we

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Speaker 2: add to their peril, and so they're going to continue

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Speaker 2: to withdraw away from that risk. The board member of Alians,

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Speaker 2: which is one of the biggest insurance companies in the world,

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Speaker 2: as you know, just recently wrote an article about how

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Speaker 2: climate change means the end of the insurance industry business model,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, that takes down mortgages that require insurance,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, that also takes down a lot

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Speaker 2: of financial transactions where there's an insurance component to a

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Speaker 2: complex financial transaction. So this cascades out very, very widely,

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Speaker 2: and very rapidly, and we simply have to start with

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Speaker 2: first principles. This is caused by fossil fuel emissions. We're

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Speaker 2: not dealing it, dealing with it properly because of fossil

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Speaker 2: fuel mischief politically, through their dark money and through their lives.

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Speaker 2: We've got to break the back of the fossil fuel

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Speaker 2: disinformation machine, get back to legislating properly. And then there's

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Speaker 2: the possibility that the insurance interests is okay. Now we

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Speaker 2: see an end through this, we can work our way

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Speaker 2: through how we redesign products so we can still provide

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Speaker 2: coverage in Florida, for instance, which is really in terrible,

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Speaker 2: terrible shape.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, you know, I can't help when I

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Speaker 1: when you bring up dark money to see to me

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Speaker 1: how transparent in the light of day that corruption is.

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Speaker 1: I just think about that infamous meeting with oil executives

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Speaker 1: that then candidate Donald Trump had where he said, give

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Speaker 1: me a billion dollars and I'll roll back basically the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. I'll give you what you want. And he did,

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Speaker 1: and he did.

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Speaker 2: He's trying and is.

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Speaker 1: That a gross exagerate? Goes back to my opening question

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Speaker 1: to you. I mean, EPA, this is a wreck. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've seen. We went through Trump one point zero, we

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Speaker 1: went through Bush. I mean, well, remember I'm from my

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Speaker 1: old office, is in Ronald Reagan's office, and so even

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Speaker 1: going back to the James Watts days, and I remember

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Speaker 1: all the vandalism was being done on the environment back then,

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Speaker 1: natural resources, not just in terms of environmental policy and

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Speaker 1: waivers and the Clean Air Act and the like Endangered

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Speaker 1: Species Act. But this seems from my perspective, we're just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks into this administration. This seems tenex The

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Speaker 1: acceleration of that kind of analysm and regressive policy making

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Speaker 1: is am I oversating.

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Speaker 2: Though you are not just one example that we're looking

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Speaker 2: at a lot, both in the judiciary and the Environment

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Speaker 2: pub Works committees. Is the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund that

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration is desperate to attack, and in order

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Speaker 2: to do so, they're not just having EPA try to

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Speaker 2: figure out ways to undo the fund. They got the

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Speaker 2: US Attorney for the District of Columbia to try to

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Speaker 2: cook up a fake criminal case so they could use

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Speaker 2: the fake criminal case as a justification to get a

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Speaker 2: court order freezing the funds prior to seizing them. The

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Speaker 2: problem was that the career staff said, there's no crime here,

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Speaker 2: we can't do this. So what did they do?

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Speaker 1: Fired?

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Speaker 2: The chief of the Criminal Division went forward with the

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Speaker 2: political US attorney signing the pleading completely on his own.

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Speaker 2: Not one person in the office would sign it. Then

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Speaker 2: the judge threw it out. So they're willing to break

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Speaker 2: through barriers of bad behavior, including maladministration of the criminal laws,

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Speaker 2: to try to get harm done to climate initiatives, and

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Speaker 2: to try to earn the billion dollars or whatever it

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Speaker 2: was that they spent on on Trump. We know it's

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Speaker 2: north of one hundred million. That was what was disclosed.

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Speaker 2: But when you hide it through C four's and through

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Speaker 2: super PACs and in it goes, and who knows what

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Speaker 2: we wanted to do was crypto fund I mean the

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Speaker 2: whole thing. It's just really hard to tell. But he

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Speaker 2: could easily have gotten a billion dollars. We just don't

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Speaker 2: know yet.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I think back and forgive me

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Speaker 1: for going back to Ronald Reagan, because you have been

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Speaker 1: a recent champion of trying to protect California's waivers under

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Speaker 1: the Clean Air Act. And just for those listening, it's

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Speaker 1: an interesting fact California's modern environmental movement. There were very

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Speaker 1: many moments, obviously off shoil spill in Santa Barbara, but

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan really established the regulatory regime as governor in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven with the creation of the California Air

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Speaker 1: Resource Board, and in nineteen seventy a Republican by the

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Speaker 1: name of Richard Nixon gave Reagan the authority under that

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Speaker 1: Clean Air Act to advance that waiver. Same person that

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Speaker 1: brought us the Endangered Species Act, among many other environmental rules,

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Speaker 1: including the EPA itself. Republicans, I'm old enough to remember,

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Speaker 1: not that I wasn't around for that necessarily, but I

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Speaker 1: do remember another Republican, George H. W. Bush, on the

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Speaker 1: issue of some issues around the ozone layer as well.

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Speaker 1: What the hell's happened in this country that we've lost

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Speaker 1: sort of a bipartisan appreciation for clean air, clean water,

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Speaker 1: having a life you can live out loud without asthma,

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Speaker 1: and being able to live longer and healthier lives. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of rhetoric in this space, but what

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Speaker 1: the hell's happened this new reality?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the new reality has a lot to

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Speaker 2: do with corruption and a lot to do with Citizens United,

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Speaker 2: which unleashed political spending on an unprecedented level. And nobody

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Speaker 2: had a bigger incentive to spend money politically than a polluter,

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Speaker 2: and nobody had a bigger incentive to hide that it

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Speaker 2: was them spending money politically louter. So you could go

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Speaker 2: in and make your backroom deal with the Republican Party

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Speaker 2: and say you knock it off on climate, you knock

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Speaker 2: it off on environmental enforcement, we will give you all

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Speaker 2: the money that you need, and nobody will know it's us.

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Speaker 2: It'll all come through Californians for Peace and Puppies and Prosperity,

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Speaker 2: or some phony front group that will prop up for you,

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Speaker 2: and the motives are huge. The International Monetary Fund says

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Speaker 2: that the subsidy for fossil fuel in the United States

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Speaker 2: every single year from being allowed to pollute for free

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Speaker 2: is seven hundred billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: This subsidy, the sub American taxpayers are pain in the aggregate.

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Speaker 2: In the in the form of pollution harms that in

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Speaker 2: proper economics are baked into the price of the product,

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Speaker 2: but they're not in the price of the product. So

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Speaker 2: they would economists call a negative externality, which is a

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Speaker 2: form of subsidy. Ask Milton Friedman, the great conservative economists, right,

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Speaker 2: and when you're fighting for a seven hundred billion dollar subsidy,

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Speaker 2: how much would you spend a year in politics to

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Speaker 2: protect seven hundred billion? I mean, the number goes through

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Speaker 2: the roof. It's astronomical. So the notion that they could

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Speaker 2: have given a billion dollars to trump the notion that

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Speaker 2: they could spend ten billion dollars a year influencing Congress

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Speaker 2: is completely plausible when you're playing for stakes of that magnitude.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that long ago that these guys made sixty

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Speaker 1: three billion dollars net profit in ninety days. Yeah, with

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Speaker 1: some of the most egregious gas spiking we've ever experienced

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Speaker 1: in US history, with no account of zero accountability. As

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Speaker 1: the price of the barrel of oil was going down,

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Speaker 1: the price of gasoline was going up, and there were

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Speaker 1: no new regulatory in positions or fees attached to that.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing about this line that Republicans like to

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Speaker 2: utter that you know what we need is energy independence.

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Speaker 2: We will never have energy and dependence in the United

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Speaker 2: States America with fossil fuel because the price is not

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Speaker 2: set in America. Thank the price is set by a

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Speaker 2: foreign cartel. That's exactly where that sixty two million came from.

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Speaker 2: Putin comes over the border, prices spike in OPEC, and

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Speaker 2: instead of being loyal to their American customers and keeping

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Speaker 2: the prices where they were doing just fine, they ramped

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Speaker 2: their prices up to meet the cartel price and gouged

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Speaker 2: and gouged and gouged and made the biggest profits in

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Speaker 2: the history of the corporation.

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Speaker 1: And somehow they had the American people, hardworking folks, defending

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Speaker 1: these oil companies despite the fact they were directly being

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Speaker 1: fleeced by the same folks, the same petro dictators overseas

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Speaker 1: that were determining domestic policy, not just influencing forum.

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Speaker 2: Well, that climate denial machine got turned on full blast

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Speaker 2: to say that this was Joe Biden's fault and we

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Speaker 2: did not have and the president then President I did

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Speaker 2: not have a strategy to fight back. Now, ultimately they

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Speaker 2: went for the clawback legislation, and by fighting for the

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Speaker 2: clawback legislation, they actually turned that issue where actually people

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Speaker 2: started to blame the fossil fuel industry, particularly once they'd

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Speaker 2: seen those profit reports. So we were able to turn

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Speaker 2: that issue, but it took some willingness to fight, and

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Speaker 2: it took a while before the Biden administration got around

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Speaker 2: to where they were willing to fight back. There were

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Speaker 2: months in which there was a one way street of

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Speaker 2: public information all saying Biden inflation, Biden gas prices. Biden

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Speaker 2: did this, which is.

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Speaker 1: A great irony because under the Biden administration we were

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Speaker 1: never more energy independent in terms of net exports. I

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Speaker 1: think it's between thirteen point three or four billion a

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Speaker 1: million gallon of barrels a day that were exporting more

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Speaker 1: than Trump administration ever exporting. We're also producing more clean

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Speaker 1: energy and green energy. And I want to compliment you

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Speaker 1: on the IRA the three hundred and sixty nine billion

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Speaker 1: dollars up to a trillion dollars. We'll see where it

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Speaker 1: counts up to of tax credits and obviously the infrastructure bill.

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Speaker 1: Are you seeing the benefit. There's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking to Ezra Client on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You know where he thought there was the mistake of

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Speaker 1: those bills. It wasn't attached to streamlining and green tape

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Speaker 1: and addressing the issue of a regulatory thicket in terms

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Speaker 1: of advancing those alternative energy stratu.

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Speaker 2: We could have done more. But right now you're seeing

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Speaker 2: an awful lot of Republicans, Senators and congressmen coming into

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Speaker 2: John Thune, coming into Speaker Johnson and saying, hold on,

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Speaker 2: hold on, not so fast. This is a factory in

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Speaker 2: my district. This is a factory where I've got employees,

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Speaker 2: This is an investment where I was there when we

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Speaker 2: cut the ribbon not so fast. So I think we

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Speaker 2: did a fairly good job there. It just isn't enough

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Speaker 2: because you simply can't have a competition for energy in

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Speaker 2: which one side, the polluting side, pollutes for free and

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Speaker 2: gets a seven hundred billion dollar negative externality subsidy and

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Speaker 2: the other side has to fight and plus with that

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Speaker 2: huge subsidy. They're attacking the other side constantly in the

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Speaker 2: public media, lying about them, attacking politicians. It's a very,

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Speaker 2: very tough environment. I will tell you, Governor, if the

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Speaker 2: United States of America had the vehicle efficiency standards that

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Speaker 2: California has, the carbon price that California has, if national

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Speaker 2: energy policy was as good as California's, we would be

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Speaker 2: on our way through this problem. We would have a

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Speaker 2: much wider pathway to climate safety. As it is, it

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Speaker 2: is a very narrow path, and we've got to fight

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Speaker 2: really hard to make sure that we succeed well.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that, and again it goes back to my compliments,

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Speaker 1: and they weren't lightly extended to you for being a

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Speaker 1: fierce champion of protecting our heartened status because of those

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Speaker 1: waivers that have allowed us to advance our clean car goals,

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Speaker 1: to allow us to have an influence to support other

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Speaker 1: states efforts. These one seventy seven states. We call them because.

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Speaker 2: We're joining forces, one of them in Rhode Island right

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Speaker 2: behind you.

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Speaker 1: God bless and all the other climate alliances we've created,

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Speaker 1: not just in the United States, but also internationally in

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Speaker 1: the MoU you under two coalitions and the like. But

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Speaker 1: let me ask you just in closing, there's one major

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Speaker 1: conference coming up. It's COP what referred to as COP thirty.

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Speaker 1: What is COP What is COP thirty represent and do

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Speaker 1: you think it represents this next big international climate? What

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Speaker 1: do you think this moment represents Trump? Trump Ism? What

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Speaker 1: do you think we represent? You, your state, Rhode Island,

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Speaker 1: California represent to the international community at this critical moment

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Speaker 1: as well, what.

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Speaker 2: We are seeing is a long litany of fossil fuel

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Speaker 2: lies about what our future is going to be. On

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Speaker 2: a collision course with the insurance in tries look at

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Speaker 2: what our future is going to be. The fossil fyo

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Speaker 2: industry can lie for free. The insurance industry makes trillion

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Speaker 2: dollar bets on getting it right and has fiduciary responsibilities

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Speaker 2: to do its best. And the insurance industry is predicting

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Speaker 2: real calamity with that cascade through real estate markets and

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Speaker 2: into world economic meltdown. So if in Brazil at the

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Speaker 2: cop we are focusing on that insurance risk and what

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Speaker 2: it means for real estate markets. According to The Economist magazine,

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Speaker 2: a twenty five trillion dollar hit to the world's largest

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Speaker 2: asset class real estate. If we can focus on that,

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Speaker 2: then we can focus our minds adequately to find that

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Speaker 2: narrow pathway to climate safety. If it's more nebulous, talk

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Speaker 2: about ambitions and you know, green this, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like, no, now we're down to a very narrow path.

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Speaker 2: We've got to nail this, BEFO. We're going to leave

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Speaker 2: our children and grandchildren a pathway to climate safety.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. It's interesting. I mean, it's in closing.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate, I really appreci I mean, again, anyone listening

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Speaker 1: appreciates the insurance pressures there under the issue of affordability

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Speaker 1: is the issue of our time. It's defined the last

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Speaker 1: few years. I think it had big an outsize, influenced

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Speaker 1: clearly in the election, not just here but around the globe.

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Speaker 1: But the issue of insurance and climate and connecting that dot,

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Speaker 1: I think is profound, and so I'm very grateful, thank you,

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Speaker 1: Senner for taking the time, thank you