1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Talk about a bad date. That is certainly perfume on 2 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: the pig. This is a euphemism. Think about it. A 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: Chicago PhD student allegedly stalks her boyfriend after a try 4 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: to check a three month relationship ends a three month relationship? 5 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: What's that? That's ninety days? Stalks him with horrible, horrible consequences. 6 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: How did this whole thing get started? Listen? Nijinsky Dicks 7 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: is a thirty seven year old PhD student at the 8 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: University of Illinois, Chicago. She's been pursuing a doctorate in criminology, 9 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: law and Justice in Chicago while also working as an 10 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: employee at the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana, 11 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: where she's the director of a talent search program called Trio. 12 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: In the midst of all this, she's also been dating 13 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: a man named Terry Hickman. They didn't date for long. 14 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,919 Speaker 1: According to Terry's family, they dated for about three months, 15 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: but the forty four year old Hickman broke up with 16 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: her in May. Do you ever just have a sixth 17 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: sense about somebody in your day and you can't really 18 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: put your finger on it, but you know you've got 19 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: a break up? I mean think about it. A woman 20 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: up in her thirties, a PhD Student at University of Illinois, 21 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: a dodger in criminology, law and justice. Oh, it just 22 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: keeps getting worse. Let me introduce to you our all 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: star panel. Jim Elliott, star attorney with Butler Snow, legal 24 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: counsel for multiple municipalities and government entities. He knows his 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: way around a courtroom at Butler Snow dot Com. Doctor 26 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the Stars, joining us from Beverly Hills. 27 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: You can find her on and at Doctor Bethany Marshall, 28 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath 29 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new 30 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: hit series, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. Joseph 31 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, but first to leave my page Crime online 32 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, and earlier we're hearing from Dave 33 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Matt at Crime Online LEVI this woman, I mean to 34 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: look at her. I'm looking at her right now. She 35 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: looks like she should be the Jackie. Doesn't she look 36 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: like she should be a model and like a clothing magazine. 37 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: Look at her and that little outfit she's got going on. Right, 38 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: They're perfectly matched. I might add, the hair is perfect, 39 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: the face is perfect. Those teeth have definitely had orthodocia. 40 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: All right, she is a total package, a PhD student, 41 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: beauty and brains. But something is not wired right. First 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: of all, tell me about the relationship. So, Nancy, you're 43 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: absolutely correcting. A GENC. Dix actually looks very studious. You 44 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: know how you can look at someone and tell the 45 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 1: don't looks like that? No, I know, she looks, you know, well, 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: put together a very studio. She looks like somebody at 47 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: school that was so you would say, then, um, a 48 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: bleach de blonde and a pair of army fatigues would 49 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: not look studious. Maybe not. Let's just start over. Tell 50 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: me about the relationship, Leavi page, Go ahead. So they 51 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: had been dating, and apparently the relationship turned bad three 52 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: months into the relationship, and right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, 53 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: Leavi page. Obviously it's not a relationship, expert Leavi page, 54 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: No offense, Dear, I'm sure you'll find them, what right 55 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: partner one of these days, um, doctor Bethany. Three months 56 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: that is like a drop in the bucket. I I'm 57 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: embarrassed to say how long I David David before we 58 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: got married. We don't tell the children were so embarrassed. 59 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Three months? Who could get crazy after ninety days? Okay? 60 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: According to Helen Fisher, who's a cultural anthropologist, the first 61 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: six months of a relationship, if you do brain scans 62 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: of the people are in the relationship, what you see 63 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: is increased activity in the dopamine um increased dopamine in 64 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: the brain, so it almost mimics being on cocaine. Is 65 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: what exactly smitter. It makes you feel warm and gooey 66 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: and like the world is lovely and that person is 67 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: so great. I really do. I get that when I 68 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: pick the twin set from school. That's the feeling like 69 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: like you're just in love with your children, the other 70 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: person the world. You don't really know the reality of 71 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: who that a person as yet that you're dating. This 72 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: is what this is what is a part of our 73 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: evolutionary pop process wired us to hold us into relationships 74 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: that there are so many feel good feelings in the 75 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: first six months. So when it starts to go south 76 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: within three months, that means that something is really wrong. Well, 77 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: I've got one person or to wear off after six months, well, 78 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: it's replaced by something better, which is meaning, meaningfulness and 79 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: knowing the reality of who the other person is. The 80 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: first six months, you have no idea who the other 81 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: person is that you're dating. You're just walking on a cloud. 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: You think they're the center of the universe. You're having 83 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: idealized thoughts of this great life together. But in about 84 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: six months, you know, you begin to like, maybe your 85 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: guy goes to a football game with other guys and 86 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: ptits to call you, and then you learn maybe it's 87 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: a little absent minded, or maybe he has a mother 88 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: with relationships all the time, doctor Bethany, And you know 89 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: that's my second calling is analyzing people's relationships. Do people 90 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: Do women actually get mad when a person doesn't call 91 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: while they're just, let's say, at a game. Do they 92 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: actually get upset when hours passed and they don't hear 93 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: from their husband, boyfriend, whatever. Yes, because women often confuse 94 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: separateness and autonomy with rejection and abandonment, which is what 95 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: I believe might have happened with Dix, that the experience 96 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: of separateness from the person she was dating got confused 97 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: with rejection, and then the rejection turned into rage. What 98 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: about the old phraseology snakes in her head? Guys, take 99 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: a listen to Dave Matt crime online. Shortly before five 100 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: thirty pm, police respond to reports of gunfire at an 101 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: apartment complex in Washington, DC. Police and the apartment, where 102 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: they find a male individual who had been shot several times. 103 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: They find Nijinsky Dix kneeling beside the bullet riddle body 104 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: of Terry Hickman. He's pronounced dead at the scene. Police 105 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: say Dix is holding a gun in her left hand, 106 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: which they ordered her to put down, but she was 107 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: also on speakerphone with someone who identified themselves to authorities 108 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: as her mother. Her mother told officers that Dix told 109 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: her he pushed me and I shot him. Dix was 110 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: then taken to the hospital, where she complained of memory 111 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: loss in back pain, but showed no signs of being assaulted. 112 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: Now the truth emerges. Who this woman really is? Najinsky 113 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: Dix in her thirties, PhD student in Criminology, Law and 114 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: Justice while working at University of Notre Dame. I mean 115 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: you think you know somebody well? Now, we're sure you 116 00:07:53,280 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: cannot judge a book by its cover. Crime Stories with 117 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace we are talking about a shocking case that 118 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: has emerged of a woman who was spurned the old saying, 119 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Well, her boyfriend, 120 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: Terry Hickman, broke up with her and she just couldn't 121 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: take it. I want to understand, lee Vi Page, how 122 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: advanced their relationship was. They had only been dating for 123 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: three months. But had they talked of marriage, had they 124 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: planned a life together? What do we know now? Listen? 125 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: I know this isn't your usual crime reporting, le Vi Page, 126 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: but I need to know this. If I were presenting 127 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: this to a jury, I would have to know every 128 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: detail of their relationship. What can you tell me? So 129 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: the victim, Terry Hickman called off the relationship after they've 130 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: been dating for three months. Apparently he had found another 131 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: woman that he was interested in, and that's why he 132 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: calls the relationship off. That's why they broke up. Well, 133 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: you know what, Jim Elliott, you're the civil attorney. Jim 134 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: Elliott is a renowned attorney. Guys who has been representing 135 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: multiple municipalities that means cities, county governments. And can you 136 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: imagine that's like a bunch of wet cats. And a barrel. 137 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: He represents them and many other cases with Butler Snow 138 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: at Butler Snow dot com. Jim Elliott, you have handled 139 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: so many civil cases. Very often you hear of the 140 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: man two timing, all right, none of the women know 141 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: about the other. None of the women know about each other. 142 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: Here's the guy that starts seeing somebody new, and he 143 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: did the honorable thing and breaks it off when the 144 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: Zinsky dicks and he gets gunned down dead for it. 145 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, how often, Jim Elliott and divorce proceedings are 146 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: people cheating and the man typically the man, but yes, 147 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: maybe the woman sometimes is juggling multiple girlfriends, I a mistresses. Well, 148 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: I mean that's, you know, not uncommon at all. But 149 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: I mean that's after a marriage. That's after a relationship 150 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: has been established and recognized legally. Not and the whole 151 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: purpose of a dating relationship is to determine if this 152 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: is or isn't the right person. You know, Um, did 153 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: you ever just date for fun, Gim Elliott? Just go 154 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: out bowling or go to dinner or see a movie 155 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: just but was every date like an interview for marriage 156 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: for you? Absolutely not. I had a lot of fun 157 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: in college in law school, and I bet you did. 158 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: I bet you did. So. I mean, I don't think 159 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: every dating relationship is an audition for marriage. And that's 160 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: actually that's an interra thing. I want to go ahead. 161 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: I just want to make you know. I mean they 162 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: didn't even live in the same city. I mean she 163 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 1: was in Chicago or South Bend and he was in Washington. 164 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: No wait a minute, long distance for years and years 165 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: and years, and we managed to slog through. But you're 166 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: right everything you're saying. See there you go, doctor Bethany Marshall. 167 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to Jim Elliott with Butler snow and getting 168 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: a man's perspective. And while I don't agree with it emotionally, 169 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: what he's saying makes a lot of sense. One, they 170 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: didn't even live in the same city. What did they 171 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: did she actually think they were about to walk down 172 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: the aisle. The fact they've only been together three months 173 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: plus didn't live in the same city, as Jim points out, 174 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: in my mind, makes it even less serious a relationship 175 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: because they hardly ever saw each other. There's no like 176 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: getting together spontaneously after work for dinner. None of that 177 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: ever happened. So how does jump in Bethany. Well, first 178 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: of all, in the mind of the stalker, one phone 179 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: call can be blown up into an entire relationship. Let 180 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: me tell you something. Okay, Well, I'm gonna calls you. 181 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: Go ahead, okay, okay. According to my guru, Read malloy, 182 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: who's the forensic psychiatrist, that the stalker beth imagines Bethanie, 183 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: that's something I like about you. She never takes credit 184 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: for other people's ideas, you know, she's always she's big 185 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: enough of a star to let the other star shine. 186 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: You know. Well, I've memorized his work. He is such 187 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: a scholar and one of his lines is, or one 188 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: of his phrases is that with stalking, the stalker imagines 189 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: that there is an entire relationship when there is no 190 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: evidence to support that. In fact, when there's evidence to 191 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: the contrary, and so they go after the victim for 192 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: perceived rejection, and they punish the victim for perceived rejection. 193 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: So the stalker could just go on one date and 194 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: spin an entire story in their mind that they're going 195 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: to get married, that they're an item, and that you know, 196 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: this person belongs to them and there's a commitment when 197 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: there's absolutely nothing to support that. So in some ways, Dick, well, 198 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: definitely Dix did not have what we call a preference 199 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: for reality. She was not living in reality. She was 200 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: whatever was going on in her own mind. It's kind 201 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: of hard to believe this beautiful yet studious looking woman, 202 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: she's perfectly kept, could get all crazy drive to her 203 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: boyfriend's place, which Levi, you can tell me later how 204 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: far away it was an open fire, because Joe Scott Morgan, 205 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: did you hear what the cops said? She was taken 206 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: to the hospital where she complains of sudden memory loss, 207 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: and she showed no sign whatsoever of being assaulted. What 208 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: can you tell me about the injuries, Joe Scott Morgan? Oh, well, 209 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: first off, with her, there is an absence of of 210 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: the injuries. And you know, one of the things that 211 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: you're going to think of with with an event like 212 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: this is that she would have been approached and assaulted 213 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: by this man that she was confronting at his apartment 214 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: by the way, and the weapon. That's kind of a 215 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: problem what you just said, because typically if she was 216 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: firing in self defense, you would look at what leads 217 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: up to that, and if she drove across the country 218 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: to get to him. That would initially armed. I might add, yes, 219 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: she goes into the home where the apartment armed, that 220 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: would make her the aggressor not him. It would when 221 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: did this switch in her mind that she had to 222 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: shoot him in self defense? Go ahead? Please? Yeah, you 223 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: know my thought is female or not? You know, at 224 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: that point in time, if someone shows up female or not, 225 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: all the women in here are laughing, and you know, 226 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany says perfectly arched eyebrows. I'm sure one of them. 227 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: It's like halfway to her hairline right now. So female 228 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: or not? What was the rest of that sentence? I mean, 229 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you gotta get with the times, friend. Yeah, 230 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: if you throw a gun up in my face, even 231 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: if she's a female, she might be able to carry 232 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: off a scheme. Okay, go ahead, Yeah, Well, you know 233 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: she shows up. She shows up at his residence after driving. 234 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: You know, I can only assume that since she's working 235 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: in Indiana, she's coming from South Bend. This is no 236 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: easy drive, Nancy. It makes me think of the astronaut case, 237 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, where she's driving across the country wearing a 238 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: diaper and that sort of thing. That was an oldie 239 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: but a goody also part of a love triangle. The 240 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: female astronaut she attains this an incredible success, goes crazy 241 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: over her. Was he a married boyfriend? Drives hours and 242 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: hours and hours wearing an adult diaper so she wouldn't 243 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: have to slow down to take a poop and to 244 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: shoot the love rival anyway, again back to Joe Scott. Yeah, 245 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: and again a person of seemingly high intelligence. Here we've 246 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: got an individual that's a PhD student. So my thought is, 247 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, why are you going to drive all of 248 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: this distance and it is a great distance from Southman 249 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: to DC, show up at this man's home whom you 250 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: haven't you know, you don't have a relationship with at 251 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: that moment time, Why the hell are you showing up 252 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: with a hand cannon? And then you're prepared to do harm, which, 253 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: of course, in the end she actually did. She wants 254 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: to have to curse multiple time? Do you have to 255 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: curse to make your point? Actually makes me. Actually it's 256 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: because they have a very mad vocabulary and they can't 257 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: say anything else. And the other day, doctor Bethany, you 258 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: know how I feel about this? A publication put my 259 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: name in the title with the lord's name in vain. 260 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: Do you know how I'm nearly did a backflip And 261 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: we called and called and asked him to change the 262 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: title because it made it sound like a quote, but 263 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't. Boy, when Jesus sees that he's going to 264 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: have a fit clime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we're 265 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: talking about a PhD student, gorgeous, has everything going for her, 266 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: drives we think through the night to gun down her 267 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: boyfriend of three months. What were you saying, doctor Bethany, Well, 268 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: you were talking about the astronaut and putting on the 269 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: diapers driving across the country. I remember commenting on that 270 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: story on Good Morning America. I talked to all my 271 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: colleagues about why would somebody who's so intelligent, so trained, 272 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: she went through NASA, she had all the psych testing, 273 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: and why would she want to kill her love rival? 274 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: And this dicks that we're talking about today, the beautiful kitten, heels, 275 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: the green skirt, the clothed hair, the perfect teeth, the PhD. 276 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: Why is somebody who has at such a high academic level, 277 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: why would they be so homicidal? And all of my 278 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: colleagues said that when you're that smart, you're that trained, 279 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: you have all the degrees, it provides a thin veneer 280 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: of sophistication that can hide a very disturbed interior. So 281 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: these people kind of get by in society because of 282 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: their credentials and degrees, and it covers up how disturbed 283 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: they are deep down. It's like putting the wallpaper over 284 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: the cracked underneath they cracked wall and covering it up 285 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: and nobody knows. Take a listen to Dave matt Crime online. 286 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: A doctor examined a Jynski digs after the shooting of 287 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: Terry Hickman and told detectives that Dix did not indicate 288 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: she had been assaulted and didn't present with any physical 289 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: signs of trauma. Police talked to multiple eyewitnesses, one of 290 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: whom said they heard shots while outside the building, heard 291 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: a woman scream, oh my God, and then saw a 292 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: woman walking back and forth on the balcony. Other witnesses 293 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: told police and off. After being released from the hospital, 294 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: Dix was taken to a police station, where she again 295 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: complained of memory laws. During an interview with detectives, Dix 296 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: asked police for some sort of information that made jog 297 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: her memory about what had happened. According to the court filings. 298 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: When shown a photograph of Hickman, Dix began crying and saying, 299 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: get it away from me. Detectives talk to an individual 300 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: who said that the woman was stalking the decedon and 301 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: that she was from out of state but somehow found 302 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,239 Speaker 1: out where he lived. Nijinski Dix has been arrested and 303 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: charged with the murder of Terry Hickman. What about that 304 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: turn of events, too, Leavi Page. She had never even 305 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: been to his home before, yet she fantasized they had 306 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: this relationship and he should die from breaking up with her. 307 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, Nancy, and something Indiana to Washington, DC. 308 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: Or she drove that's six hundred and twelve miles, about 309 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: ten hours of driving. And you know what this reminds 310 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: me of. It reminds me of Jodiarius Or where she 311 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: lived in California, and she traveled to Arizona to be 312 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: with Travis Alexander and when he started seeing other people, 313 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: she lost it and stabbed him dozens of times, twenty 314 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: nine times to be exact. Although there were so many 315 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: stab wounds they couldn't really determine because some stab wounds 316 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: were on top of other stab wounds and then to 317 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: top it off, just to make sure he was dead, 318 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: she capped him in the head, left him to decay 319 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: in his shower stall. Then she literally drove across the 320 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: desert with blood on her hands, and again literally jumped 321 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: on her new boyfriend and straddled him with the blood 322 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: on her hands. From Travis Alexander, guys were talking about 323 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: a victim in the prime of his life as well, 324 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: Terry Hickman, who dared to break up with a long 325 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: distance girlfriend of just three months. She finds out where 326 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: he lives. She obviously didn't know, and to me, there 327 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: was a reason for her not knowing where he lived. 328 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: He had not told her that and guns him down 329 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: dead over dating somebody else, not behind her back. He 330 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: broke up with her, and that threw her into a rage. 331 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: It's not the first time something like this, exactly like 332 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: this has happened. Take a listen to our friends at 333 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: Inside Edition. I Love Him From her jail cell, Jacqueline 334 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: Aids says she's still infatuated by a man she went 335 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: on three dates with whom she met online. I felt 336 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: like I met my fulmy and everything was just the 337 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: way it was, and I thought we would just do 338 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: what everybody else did, and we would just like get 339 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: married and everything would be fine. But then say Aids 340 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: was contrastpassing at the guy's Arizona home several times after 341 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: telling them he didn't want anything to do with her anymore. 342 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: Turns out, belusay she send him about sixty five thousand 343 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: text messages as well, writing disturbing things like oh, what 344 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: would I do with your blood? I'd want to bathe 345 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: in it, and I'd wear your skull. Aids is charged 346 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: with multiple crimes, including threatening, stalking, and harassment. I miss 347 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: part of that. What did she say about his skull? LEVI? 348 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: I couldn't hear. She said something about I would bathe 349 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: in your blood and something about his skull. She would 350 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: wear his skull, and she compared herself to Hitler. She 351 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: thought he was a genius as well. I don't know 352 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: how you know all this, LEVI just you know off 353 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: the top of your head. It's disturbing on many levels. 354 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends. A kphotv. Jacqueline Addas 355 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: claims she went on three dates with a Paradise Valley 356 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: man she met through an online dating services for millionaire matchmaking. 357 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: Court records say Addis sent the victim sixty five thousand 358 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: text messages, including threats to kill him, where his body parts, 359 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: and bathe in his blood. Addis does not deny the 360 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: volume of text messages, but she would not get into specifics. 361 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: She did, however, regret the nature of some of those messages. 362 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: When you're finding love, not everything is perfect. This was 363 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: a journey, and I wanted to apologize because nobody would 364 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: ever be more sorry. Addis said she never intended to 365 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: hurt or scare the victim, and she doesn't blame him 366 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: for her incarceration. No, I love him, bathe in his 367 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: blood and where his body parts. That phrase is going 368 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: to stick with me for a long time. Doctor Bethany, 369 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: We've actually been jokingly dis scribing women with quote snakes 370 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: in their head, the heads, bathed in his blood and 371 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: where his body parts. And Terry Hickman, that guy lived. 372 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: Terry Hickman is dead. He can't be brought back. His 373 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: family is grieving. What is at the heart of this 374 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: The truth is, Nancy, we have a phrase in my 375 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: field called merger fantasies. That's when you want to merge 376 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: with somebody rather than connect to them appropriately. It's considered 377 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: that if you have an adult who's stuck in a 378 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: very infantile way of thinking, babies merge with their mothers, 379 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is they gaze into 380 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: each other's eyes. There's skin to skin contact, there's no 381 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: separateness between mother and infant. And adults who are very 382 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: pathological are really thinking from this most primitive, early instantile 383 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: way of relating. So this, I want to bathe in 384 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: your blood and your body parts. It's gonna it's like, 385 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to be one with you. You're never going 386 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: to be separate from me. You're going to be an 387 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: extension of me, similar to men to women who fall 388 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: in love with men in prison. I'm going to know 389 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: where you are all the time. You're never going to 390 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: be separate and autonomous. You know. I'm reminded of the 391 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: trailer for Desperate Housewives. I don't know if you remember 392 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: this ye that the redhead is sitting next her husband 393 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: is in a hospital bed, his legs in a sling, 394 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: he has he's in a body cast, he has bruises 395 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: all over his face. She's sitting on the side of 396 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: the bed, perfectly quaffed, and and he says to her 397 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: you you tried to kill me, and she says in 398 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: a pleasant voice, Oh, I'm sorry about that. I love 399 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: that trailer because it gets at the heart of domestic 400 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: violence and this kind of dynamic. You know, I'm thinking 401 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: about how even we who are crime veterans are discussing 402 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: this because typically the male victim lives, but in this 403 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: case that was not to be for Terry Hickman, who 404 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: lost his life because this woman, Najinsky Dix, could not 405 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: let go crime stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking 406 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: about the death of a man in the prime of 407 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: his life, Terry Hickman. He was stalked and pursued by 408 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: his ex girlfriend. PhD student Nazinsky Dix. You certainly cannot 409 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: judge a book by its cover. She looks like she's 410 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: a lawyer about to go into court. She's perfectly quaf, 411 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: her hair is lustrous and well kept, perfect makeup, perfect outfit, 412 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: perfect credentials, PhD student and of all things crime and 413 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: justice and is a killer. And her lame excuse that 414 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 1: she had suddenly sudden memory loss and that she had 415 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: been attacked, although all she could complain of is about 416 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: a back ailment. When she got to jail to Joe 417 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. You know, I 418 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: asked you about the injuries, and you immediately started talking 419 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: about her nonexistent injuries. What about him? He's dead, Yeah, 420 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: he is very much So he was expecting a little 421 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: more from your analysis, Joe Scott, Well, it is a 422 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: terminal analysis, Nancy. He was shot in multiple times in 423 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: his home, and she showed up with a semi automatic handgun. 424 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: There was still actually when the police arrived at the scene. 425 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: Now keep in mind, let me kind of paint this 426 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: picture for you. When the police arrived at the scene, 427 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: she has one hand. She's kneeling at the victim's feet. 428 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: Just imagine that she's kneeling at his feet. He's suffering 429 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: from gunshot wounds. She's got her right hand raised in 430 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: the air, you know, much like when the police on 431 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: TV say show your hand, show your hands, and between 432 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: her legs. Her left hand is out of you and 433 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: she's holding this loaded weapon. Now she's already shot him 434 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: multiple times with this weapon. There's still a live round 435 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: in the chamber, okay, because when an a semi automatic weapon, 436 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: it loads up another round until it's out and there 437 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: were still more rounds in the magazine. So what I'm 438 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: saying is these police officers actually walked into a very 439 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: very dangerous situation where this man has died, and you know, 440 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: I think my thought is how long did he languish 441 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: on the floor? How long did he kind of dwell 442 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: in that environment with this crazy person lording over him 443 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: with this weapon? Well says she's saying, because remember, earwitnesses 444 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: stated they heard gunshot, wounds and then she said something 445 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: like help me. At that point in time, it's not 446 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: like she's being attack Prior to that, where you would 447 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: think people would say help me, help me, help me, 448 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: and then you hear bam, bam bam. It was the 449 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: reverse of that. So this is a very disturbed picture 450 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: that's being painted here. Jessica Morgan, that's an excellent analysis. 451 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: I want to go to veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott 452 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: at Butler snow dot com. Jim a couple of things. 453 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: Leavi Page pointed out that it was at least a 454 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: ten hour drive. Right there is ten hours that we 455 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,959 Speaker 1: know of of premeditation finding his address. She had never 456 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: been there before, going from her car to inside, knocking 457 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: on the door, him opening the door all that time 458 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: equals premeditation because under the law across our country brought 459 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: over from Great Britain when we adopted our common law, 460 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye 461 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: and the twinkling of a moment and the time it 462 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: takes you to raise the gun and pull the trigger 463 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: or less. It is no different than when you plan 464 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: a long time plan such as poisoning someone over a 465 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: period of weeks and months. Premeditation can be formed just 466 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: like that. She had time for premeditation, which makes this 467 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: only one thing murder one absolutely, I mean a lot 468 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: of the normal distenses that would be available to her, 469 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: like a moment of passion or an even number of 470 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: other things. Just that they're not going to be there. 471 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: No jury's going to buy that, you know, ten hours 472 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: in the car. Also, there are report said the two 473 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: have been saying arguing in the parking lot before the shooting, 474 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: which means she would have had to follow him in 475 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: or somehow get And I've got a very strong feeling 476 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: this guy was not gonna let her in his place. Again, 477 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: this is not the first time a similar incident has occurred. 478 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at w k MG. 479 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Eric Santoval. Ossiola County Sheriff's investigators say a woman called 480 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: nine one one around noon today from this home on 481 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: Blackpool Way. She said someone she knew was trying to 482 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: get inside and he was armed. When deputies arrived, they 483 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: say they confronted a man matching the description a block 484 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: away and that is when he pulled out his gun 485 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: and shot himself. They identified him his twenty year old 486 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Kai Douglas Williams, and inside the house they say they 487 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: found his estranged girlfriend, eighteen year old Larissa Borrows, shot dead. 488 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: She was my best friend, Drew Smith. It says he's 489 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: known Borrows since the second grade and he lived down 490 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: the street. It's heartbroken. His home chess Field's empty when 491 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: you lose somebody that means so much to you. Smith 492 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: said the couple had a little boy and they also 493 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: had problems. New six investigated and according to the Ossola 494 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: County court records, Williams wasn't supposed to go near Borrows. 495 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: He had a restraining order after a case of domestic violence. 496 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: Her friends tell us he set her car on fire 497 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: here at school. He had also been arrested for stalking borrows. 498 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: So there you see a guy with a tro against 499 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: him to keep him away from the victim. But it 500 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: doesn't work. It doesn't work at all. He pursues her 501 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: until he kills her. So to doctor Bethiity Marshall, court 502 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: intervention in that case seemingly did not work. Nancy, Seventy 503 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: two percent of all stalking cases occur when a woman 504 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: is trying to leave a relationship and they are married. 505 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: We think of stalking as being amongst dating partners or 506 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: somebody who's trying to get away from another person after 507 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: a brief relationship. But think about it. Seventy two percent 508 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: of all stalking cases are expouses who are going through 509 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: a divorce, so they're already in some type of legal 510 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: proceeding and it doesn't provide a barrier. What I think 511 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: is interesting about Dick is that she says to the doctor, 512 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: I blacked out. I don't remember. In my field, we 513 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: call this malingering amnesia. Amnesia is a medical disorder, and 514 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: malingering means you're making up a medical disorder. It's kind 515 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: of like saying that you have brain cancer so that 516 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: everybody will send you money. In this case, it's making 517 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: up that you don't remember in order to get out 518 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: of some legal consequence. So this is the oldest trick 519 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: in the book. So the lies upon lies just pile 520 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: up after these domestic incidents. I want you to take 521 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut number nine. This is Lisa 522 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: Rosner at CBS two with another similar case. As investigators 523 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: surveyed the gun used to kill fifty six year old 524 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lee Herman, students and staff across the street at 525 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: the Grace Church School in Cooper Square were on lockdown. 526 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: They had no idea The person shot at the City 527 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: bike rack was the school secretary, a part of their 528 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: community for seventeen years. It was a very very difficult 529 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: morning for the kids, several of them including me. We're 530 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: out front here when it happened. After allegedly stalking her 531 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: for months at her home, her workplace, and even while 532 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: she was out on other dates, sixty two year old 533 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: Vincent Verdi is accused of shooting the divorced mother of 534 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: two in the stomach Wednesday morning. She later died at 535 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: a hospital. She broke up with him in July and 536 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: got a restraining order October fifth, after he was arrested 537 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: for stalking she was such an angel. He would be 538 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: calling her all the time and she was like, you 539 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: have to stop calling me, even stalking her on dates 540 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: that she would have with other people. I noticed Levi 541 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 1: Page climb online dot Com investigative reporter that after the shooting, 542 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: she told detectives quote, you don't do people you love 543 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: like that. That's not love. I don't want that. He 544 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: can't do people like that. In other words, it sounds 545 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: to me like she's still blaming him even though she's 546 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: just shot him dead. Yes, And she told that to 547 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: detectives when they were interviewing her, when they showed her 548 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: a photo of the victim. And they were doing this 549 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: because she said that she had this memory lass that 550 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: she couldn't remember what happened and she needed her memory job. 551 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: So they showed her the photo and she recoiled and 552 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: was saying that to make sure that he is not 553 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: near me, make sure Terry is not near me. So 554 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: she's setting herself up as the victim. Well, if the 555 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: facts as we know them are true, this is nothing 556 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: but murder one. As his family grieves him, Terry Hitman, 557 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: we wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Gray's crime story signing 558 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:10,959 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,