Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast,
Speaker 1: bringing you an in depth conversation you won't hear anywhere else.
Speaker 1: This week, I got an opportunity to sit down with
Speaker 1: Admiral Mike Mullen. He's the former Chairman of the Joint
Speaker 1: Chiefs of Staff, the reason the second Annual Summit on
Speaker 1: Security hosted at the nine eleven Memorial and Museum. We
Speaker 1: talked about his role in one of the most critical
Speaker 1: missions in recent American military history, the capture and killing
Speaker 1: of Osama bin Laden. Check it out. So, Admiral Mullen,
Speaker 1: when you look at this exhibit, this new exhibit at
Speaker 1: the nine eleven Memorial and Museum, it's arresting in so
Speaker 1: many ways, and it takes us back to such a
Speaker 1: dramatic moment in American history. Tell us about that moment
Speaker 1: for you, well, that moment for me. I viewed it
Speaker 1: and said right afterwards that the world's changed forever. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I was actually in the Pentagon that day. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I was in a meeting with the head of
Speaker 1: the Navy, which was seventy ft or so from my office,
Speaker 1: uh and which was around the corner, and my two assistants.
Speaker 1: My office is up on the fourth floor the Pentagon,
Speaker 1: and my my two assistants looked out the window and
Speaker 1: saw seven fighting under their feet as they talked to
Speaker 1: me later about what they went through. So uh and
Speaker 1: as I'm sure anybody everybody can remember, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a spectacularly gorgeous day in the fall that just
Speaker 1: reaked devastation that will and should always be remembered. So
Speaker 1: the uh nine elevens will always be I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's for me. It's sort of the pearl harbor of
Speaker 1: of our of modern times, and it is something that
Speaker 1: we should absolutely never forget, and our hearts and prayers,
Speaker 1: continuous thoughts go out to those who lost a loved
Speaker 1: one that day, and there were thousands, so that it
Speaker 1: all comes rushing back pretty quickly, and in many ways
Speaker 1: that sets off sets up I should say, one of
Speaker 1: the most important dramatic man hunts in American history that
Speaker 1: culminates with the killing of Osama bin Laden. Tell me
Speaker 1: what that was like leading up to it, and then
Speaker 1: the day that that happened, Well, we had been hunting
Speaker 1: for Bin Laden for intensely for years and UM and
Speaker 1: I think just the fact that it took so long,
Speaker 1: it took a decade to to get to that culminating point,
Speaker 1: is indicative of how difficult to target he was and
Speaker 1: the care with which he took to hide and those
Speaker 1: around him. UM. And it was an incredibly intense effort
Speaker 1: to do that. Obviously, we were doing other things. We
Speaker 1: had a war in Iraq, we had a war in Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: but we never lost focus. And in one of the
Speaker 1: one of the groups I'd like to give credit to UH,
Speaker 1: there was a special I think run on CNN a
Speaker 1: few years ago the four ladies in the agency who
Speaker 1: in the late eighties really started and stayed after Bin
Speaker 1: Laden when they had no resources, nobody was paying much
Speaker 1: attention to him, and so it had been going on
Speaker 1: for a long long time, UH and UH. And then
Speaker 1: it culminated, obviously in better intelligence and in the last
Speaker 1: few months. Really I didn't get involved until January in
Speaker 1: terms of what the possibilities might be, and that was
Speaker 1: right because one of my concerns was all of our
Speaker 1: concern was if there had been any indication that we
Speaker 1: knew he would have he would have left, and in fact,
Speaker 1: his his principal advisors were telling him in that time
Speaker 1: frame that we actually killed him, it was time to go.
Speaker 1: They were concerned he'd been there too long and they
Speaker 1: needed to move. So had it not happened that night,
Speaker 1: it could have been another decade before we found him.
Speaker 1: And what was that night? Like? People asked me that
Speaker 1: famous picture. Uh, And one of the reasons I think
Speaker 1: it's famous is because it really does capture the moment
Speaker 1: and it was very, very tense. That said, it was
Speaker 1: a decision, and it was a courageous decision from my
Speaker 1: perspective on a part of President Obama, because we didn't
Speaker 1: actually know he was there. We had lots of circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 1: I viewed it as a bet the presidency. Uh, decision
Speaker 1: that the President made um and uh. And the night itself,
Speaker 1: the actual night of the killing was we were into
Speaker 1: that operation, uh, you know, for two a couple of
Speaker 1: days at that point, so it had it had been
Speaker 1: going for some time, and there had been rehearsals and
Speaker 1: lots of preparation go on for literally four months in
Speaker 1: the event that we could pin him down. So Uh,
Speaker 1: we we had planned this down to a level of detail.
Speaker 1: That would in the end allow us to kill him.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I'm I like to remind
Speaker 1: people of is that same night in Afghanistan, there were
Speaker 1: fourteen other missions similar to that that were that were
Speaker 1: carried out. And while strategically this one certainly had the
Speaker 1: highest risk, but we have done thousands and thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of these missions over the course of the years
Speaker 1: that we had been fighting, So I had every expectation
Speaker 1: that if he was there, we were going to either
Speaker 1: be able to capture or kill him. That said, it
Speaker 1: was tense, and it wasn't over until it was over.
Speaker 1: And by that I mean literally not just the killing
Speaker 1: him or getting him out and getting him back into Afghanistan,
Speaker 1: taking his DNA and positively identifying him, getting him on
Speaker 1: a helicopter, flying him through Pakistani airspace, and getting him
Speaker 1: out to a carrier at sea where he could be
Speaker 1: buried consistent with his beliefs, his religious beliefs, which is
Speaker 1: what we did. And So when you think about that
Speaker 1: moment and you fast forward to today, what has it
Speaker 1: ultimately meant for the war in terror, which has not
Speaker 1: ended in many ways and has only become in some
Speaker 1: ways more complicated. Well, I think it's in terms of
Speaker 1: having a huge impact on the Alcada organization. It did
Speaker 1: when you take out a leader like that, just as
Speaker 1: the very recent killing Baghdaddy has had a big impact
Speaker 1: on the ISIS organization. But it doesn't make the ideas
Speaker 1: go away, doesn't make the aspiration go away UH. And
Speaker 1: it hasn't al Qaeda, nor has Baghdaddy's death UH done
Speaker 1: that with ISIS. And so I think we have to
Speaker 1: stay at this. We still we still are in a
Speaker 1: situation where where we are seen as the evil empire,
Speaker 1: if you will, from the terrorists perspective, and they continue
Speaker 1: to come after us. There's a debate now about whether
Speaker 1: or not we should stay in Afghanistan. We we in
Speaker 1: fact know that some twenty plus terrorist organizations who aspire
Speaker 1: to do us ill live in that border between Pakistan
Speaker 1: and Afghanistan, and I think leaving them unattended we would
Speaker 1: be high risk and very dangerous. So that war continues
Speaker 1: and and and the root cause issues are the ones
Speaker 1: that I think we we all need to continue to
Speaker 1: focus on. And it's tied to young mostly young men,
Speaker 1: but young men in that part of the world who
Speaker 1: have no future and who decide if the age of
Speaker 1: fifteen years old to put on a suicide vest and
Speaker 1: end their life, the root cause issues are still there.
Speaker 1: And I think as long as they are there, UH,
Speaker 1: and we are seen in the West as the individual
Speaker 1: or the the institutions and the nations that we are,
Speaker 1: that the terrorism is going to continue. And as you
Speaker 1: look around the world, clearly that continues to be a
Speaker 1: hot spot. The Middle East, the Gulf States have only
Speaker 1: become in many ways, as I alluded to, more complicated, uh,
Speaker 1: in many ways. In your work now in the private sector,
Speaker 1: how how would you identify the biggest areas of threat
Speaker 1: for the United States in a in a world that
Speaker 1: is constantly changing, and we talk about the technological change
Speaker 1: and the world changes in almost every dimension. What is
Speaker 1: somewhat ironic from my perspective is when we talk about
Speaker 1: the threats that are out there, in the countries that
Speaker 1: are out there, it's still Russia, it's China, it's North Korea,
Speaker 1: it's Iran. One might add Venezuela right now, just because
Speaker 1: the complete chaos that's there, But it's the same cast
Speaker 1: of characters that have been around literally even prior to
Speaker 1: the Cold War ending, but certainly with an intensity since
Speaker 1: the Cold War. So as the world changes, Uh, it
Speaker 1: is the technology and the capabilities of these countries which
Speaker 1: we need to pay attention to. But it's basically the
Speaker 1: same group, and we're gonna need to continue to be
Speaker 1: able to push back on them in a way that
Speaker 1: that allows the world, I think, to to thrive. And
Speaker 1: that's certainly a problem. Whether it's the Gulf, the Persian Gulf,
Speaker 1: or the Middle East. I think we're on a we're
Speaker 1: on a long boil in the Middle East right now,
Speaker 1: thirty or forty years. It's certainly not going to sort
Speaker 1: out very quickly. Um uh. And and we've got a
Speaker 1: you know, a rising China, a resurgent Russia. We've got
Speaker 1: a Europe which is certainly in some churn politically because
Speaker 1: of what's happened. So the challenges now, actually, and you
Speaker 1: add the the existing threat of terrorism, which we talked
Speaker 1: about earlier, the challenges now are every bit as much,
Speaker 1: if not harder, and more significant than they were during
Speaker 1: the Cold War. You know, it's the week of Veterans Day,
Speaker 1: and I will take this moment to thank you personally
Speaker 1: for for your service to the country. I do wonder
Speaker 1: because I know It's an issue that's been very important
Speaker 1: to you. The role of the military and the view
Speaker 1: of the military in society in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: certainly ebbed and flowed change over the course of your career.
Speaker 1: Where do you see it right now in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: It's a precious, precious institution and its reputation, which is
Speaker 1: a political UH from throughout our history in the ebbs
Speaker 1: and flows, is absolutely critical. And to your point about
Speaker 1: I've seen it in a different place coming out of Vietnam,
Speaker 1: which is the first war I fought in, where the
Speaker 1: military was was so um much. UH. It was held
Speaker 1: in very, very low esteem, and that has changed over
Speaker 1: the course of many decades, and the institution is held
Speaker 1: in high regard throughout the country. And we need to
Speaker 1: preserve that. We're going through a very difficult time as
Speaker 1: a country right now. Certainly in my life, I've never
Speaker 1: seen us so politically divided. I've never seen Washington so dysfunctional,
Speaker 1: with political leaders on both sides of the aisle unable
Speaker 1: to deliver for the American people. UM. But it's a
Speaker 1: system I believe in, UH, and we need to make
Speaker 1: sure that the democracy continues to function and that we
Speaker 1: don't walk away from its principles. UH. It's a responsibility
Speaker 1: of American people to make sure that that governance is
Speaker 1: correct for us in the future, and that the military is,
Speaker 1: in general, certainly the active duty side in support of
Speaker 1: those that the American people elect H and that even
Speaker 1: those who are retired oftentimes, from my point of view,
Speaker 1: UH need to be reminded that it's not our position
Speaker 1: uh to take a stand against the president or a policy,
Speaker 1: because I think that confuses the American people because we're
Speaker 1: seen as military experts and in ways we always speak
Speaker 1: for the military, So preserving that a political aspect of
Speaker 1: the United States military is absolutely at the top of
Speaker 1: my list in terms of priorities for the country. That
Speaker 1: was Admiral Mike Mullen, and I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation
Speaker 1: with him, so thoughtful about so many aspects of his
Speaker 1: own career, the role of the military, the political time
Speaker 1: we are living in, and the role that we all
Speaker 1: have to play. You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra,
Speaker 1: be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Live
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly, this is Bloomberg,