WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Admiral Michael Mullen

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>bringing you an in depth conversation you won't hear anywhere else.

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<v Speaker 1>This week, I got an opportunity to sit down with

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<v Speaker 1>Admiral Mike Mullen. He's the former Chairman of the Joint

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<v Speaker 1>Chiefs of Staff, the reason the second Annual Summit on

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<v Speaker 1>Security hosted at the nine eleven Memorial and Museum. We

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<v Speaker 1>talked about his role in one of the most critical

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<v Speaker 1>missions in recent American military history, the capture and killing

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<v Speaker 1>of Osama bin Laden. Check it out. So, Admiral Mullen,

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<v Speaker 1>when you look at this exhibit, this new exhibit at

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<v Speaker 1>the nine eleven Memorial and Museum, it's arresting in so

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<v Speaker 1>many ways, and it takes us back to such a

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<v Speaker 1>dramatic moment in American history. Tell us about that moment

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<v Speaker 1>for you, well, that moment for me. I viewed it

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<v Speaker 1>and said right afterwards that the world's changed forever. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was actually in the Pentagon that day. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was in a meeting with the head of

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<v Speaker 1>the Navy, which was seventy ft or so from my office,

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<v Speaker 1>uh and which was around the corner, and my two assistants.

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<v Speaker 1>My office is up on the fourth floor the Pentagon,

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<v Speaker 1>and my my two assistants looked out the window and

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<v Speaker 1>saw seven fighting under their feet as they talked to

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<v Speaker 1>me later about what they went through. So uh and

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<v Speaker 1>as I'm sure anybody everybody can remember, it was. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a spectacularly gorgeous day in the fall that just

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<v Speaker 1>reaked devastation that will and should always be remembered. So

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<v Speaker 1>the uh nine elevens will always be I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's for me. It's sort of the pearl harbor of

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<v Speaker 1>of our of modern times, and it is something that

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<v Speaker 1>we should absolutely never forget, and our hearts and prayers,

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<v Speaker 1>continuous thoughts go out to those who lost a loved

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<v Speaker 1>one that day, and there were thousands, so that it

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<v Speaker 1>all comes rushing back pretty quickly, and in many ways

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<v Speaker 1>that sets off sets up I should say, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most important dramatic man hunts in American history that

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<v Speaker 1>culminates with the killing of Osama bin Laden. Tell me

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<v Speaker 1>what that was like leading up to it, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the day that that happened, Well, we had been hunting

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<v Speaker 1>for Bin Laden for intensely for years and UM and

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<v Speaker 1>I think just the fact that it took so long,

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<v Speaker 1>it took a decade to to get to that culminating point,

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<v Speaker 1>is indicative of how difficult to target he was and

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<v Speaker 1>the care with which he took to hide and those

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<v Speaker 1>around him. UM. And it was an incredibly intense effort

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. Obviously, we were doing other things. We

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<v Speaker 1>had a war in Iraq, we had a war in Afghanistan,

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<v Speaker 1>but we never lost focus. And in one of the

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<v Speaker 1>one of the groups I'd like to give credit to UH,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a special I think run on CNN a

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<v Speaker 1>few years ago the four ladies in the agency who

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<v Speaker 1>in the late eighties really started and stayed after Bin

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<v Speaker 1>Laden when they had no resources, nobody was paying much

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<v Speaker 1>attention to him, and so it had been going on

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<v Speaker 1>for a long long time, UH and UH. And then

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<v Speaker 1>it culminated, obviously in better intelligence and in the last

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<v Speaker 1>few months. Really I didn't get involved until January in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of what the possibilities might be, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>right because one of my concerns was all of our

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<v Speaker 1>concern was if there had been any indication that we

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<v Speaker 1>knew he would have he would have left, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>his his principal advisors were telling him in that time

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<v Speaker 1>frame that we actually killed him, it was time to go.

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<v Speaker 1>They were concerned he'd been there too long and they

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<v Speaker 1>needed to move. So had it not happened that night,

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<v Speaker 1>it could have been another decade before we found him.

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<v Speaker 1>And what was that night? Like? People asked me that

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<v Speaker 1>famous picture. Uh, And one of the reasons I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's famous is because it really does capture the moment

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<v Speaker 1>and it was very, very tense. That said, it was

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<v Speaker 1>a decision, and it was a courageous decision from my

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<v Speaker 1>perspective on a part of President Obama, because we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>actually know he was there. We had lots of circumstantial evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>I viewed it as a bet the presidency. Uh, decision

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<v Speaker 1>that the President made um and uh. And the night itself,

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<v Speaker 1>the actual night of the killing was we were into

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<v Speaker 1>that operation, uh, you know, for two a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>days at that point, so it had it had been

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<v Speaker 1>going for some time, and there had been rehearsals and

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<v Speaker 1>lots of preparation go on for literally four months in

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<v Speaker 1>the event that we could pin him down. So Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we we had planned this down to a level of detail.

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<v Speaker 1>That would in the end allow us to kill him.

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<v Speaker 1>But one of the things I'm I like to remind

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<v Speaker 1>people of is that same night in Afghanistan, there were

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<v Speaker 1>fourteen other missions similar to that that were that were

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<v Speaker 1>carried out. And while strategically this one certainly had the

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<v Speaker 1>highest risk, but we have done thousands and thousands and

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of these missions over the course of the years

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<v Speaker 1>that we had been fighting, So I had every expectation

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<v Speaker 1>that if he was there, we were going to either

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<v Speaker 1>be able to capture or kill him. That said, it

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<v Speaker 1>was tense, and it wasn't over until it was over.

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<v Speaker 1>And by that I mean literally not just the killing

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<v Speaker 1>him or getting him out and getting him back into Afghanistan,

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<v Speaker 1>taking his DNA and positively identifying him, getting him on

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<v Speaker 1>a helicopter, flying him through Pakistani airspace, and getting him

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<v Speaker 1>out to a carrier at sea where he could be

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<v Speaker 1>buried consistent with his beliefs, his religious beliefs, which is

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<v Speaker 1>what we did. And So when you think about that

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<v Speaker 1>moment and you fast forward to today, what has it

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately meant for the war in terror, which has not

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<v Speaker 1>ended in many ways and has only become in some

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<v Speaker 1>ways more complicated. Well, I think it's in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>having a huge impact on the Alcada organization. It did

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<v Speaker 1>when you take out a leader like that, just as

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<v Speaker 1>the very recent killing Baghdaddy has had a big impact

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<v Speaker 1>on the ISIS organization. But it doesn't make the ideas

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<v Speaker 1>go away, doesn't make the aspiration go away UH. And

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<v Speaker 1>it hasn't al Qaeda, nor has Baghdaddy's death UH done

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<v Speaker 1>that with ISIS. And so I think we have to

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<v Speaker 1>stay at this. We still we still are in a

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<v Speaker 1>situation where where we are seen as the evil empire,

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<v Speaker 1>if you will, from the terrorists perspective, and they continue

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<v Speaker 1>to come after us. There's a debate now about whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not we should stay in Afghanistan. We we in

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<v Speaker 1>fact know that some twenty plus terrorist organizations who aspire

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<v Speaker 1>to do us ill live in that border between Pakistan

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<v Speaker 1>and Afghanistan, and I think leaving them unattended we would

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<v Speaker 1>be high risk and very dangerous. So that war continues

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<v Speaker 1>and and and the root cause issues are the ones

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<v Speaker 1>that I think we we all need to continue to

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<v Speaker 1>focus on. And it's tied to young mostly young men,

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<v Speaker 1>but young men in that part of the world who

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<v Speaker 1>have no future and who decide if the age of

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen years old to put on a suicide vest and

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<v Speaker 1>end their life, the root cause issues are still there.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think as long as they are there, UH,

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<v Speaker 1>and we are seen in the West as the individual

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<v Speaker 1>or the the institutions and the nations that we are,

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<v Speaker 1>that the terrorism is going to continue. And as you

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<v Speaker 1>look around the world, clearly that continues to be a

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<v Speaker 1>hot spot. The Middle East, the Gulf States have only

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<v Speaker 1>become in many ways, as I alluded to, more complicated, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>in many ways. In your work now in the private sector,

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<v Speaker 1>how how would you identify the biggest areas of threat

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<v Speaker 1>for the United States in a in a world that

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<v Speaker 1>is constantly changing, and we talk about the technological change

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<v Speaker 1>and the world changes in almost every dimension. What is

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat ironic from my perspective is when we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the threats that are out there, in the countries that

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<v Speaker 1>are out there, it's still Russia, it's China, it's North Korea,

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<v Speaker 1>it's Iran. One might add Venezuela right now, just because

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<v Speaker 1>the complete chaos that's there, But it's the same cast

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<v Speaker 1>of characters that have been around literally even prior to

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<v Speaker 1>the Cold War ending, but certainly with an intensity since

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<v Speaker 1>the Cold War. So as the world changes, Uh, it

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<v Speaker 1>is the technology and the capabilities of these countries which

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<v Speaker 1>we need to pay attention to. But it's basically the

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<v Speaker 1>same group, and we're gonna need to continue to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to push back on them in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>that allows the world, I think, to to thrive. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's certainly a problem. Whether it's the Gulf, the Persian Gulf,

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<v Speaker 1>or the Middle East. I think we're on a we're

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<v Speaker 1>on a long boil in the Middle East right now,

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<v Speaker 1>thirty or forty years. It's certainly not going to sort

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<v Speaker 1>out very quickly. Um uh. And and we've got a

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a rising China, a resurgent Russia. We've got

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<v Speaker 1>a Europe which is certainly in some churn politically because

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<v Speaker 1>of what's happened. So the challenges now, actually, and you

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<v Speaker 1>add the the existing threat of terrorism, which we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about earlier, the challenges now are every bit as much,

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<v Speaker 1>if not harder, and more significant than they were during

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<v Speaker 1>the Cold War. You know, it's the week of Veterans Day,

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<v Speaker 1>and I will take this moment to thank you personally

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<v Speaker 1>for for your service to the country. I do wonder

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<v Speaker 1>because I know It's an issue that's been very important

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<v Speaker 1>to you. The role of the military and the view

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<v Speaker 1>of the military in society in a lot of ways

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<v Speaker 1>certainly ebbed and flowed change over the course of your career.

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<v Speaker 1>Where do you see it right now in twenty nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a precious, precious institution and its reputation, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a political UH from throughout our history in the ebbs

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<v Speaker 1>and flows, is absolutely critical. And to your point about

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen it in a different place coming out of Vietnam,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the first war I fought in, where the

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<v Speaker 1>military was was so um much. UH. It was held

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<v Speaker 1>in very, very low esteem, and that has changed over

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<v Speaker 1>the course of many decades, and the institution is held

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<v Speaker 1>in high regard throughout the country. And we need to

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<v Speaker 1>preserve that. We're going through a very difficult time as

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<v Speaker 1>a country right now. Certainly in my life, I've never

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<v Speaker 1>seen us so politically divided. I've never seen Washington so dysfunctional,

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<v Speaker 1>with political leaders on both sides of the aisle unable

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<v Speaker 1>to deliver for the American people. UM. But it's a

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<v Speaker 1>system I believe in, UH, and we need to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that the democracy continues to function and that we

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<v Speaker 1>don't walk away from its principles. UH. It's a responsibility

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<v Speaker 1>of American people to make sure that that governance is

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<v Speaker 1>correct for us in the future, and that the military is,

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<v Speaker 1>in general, certainly the active duty side in support of

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<v Speaker 1>those that the American people elect H and that even

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<v Speaker 1>those who are retired oftentimes, from my point of view,

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<v Speaker 1>UH need to be reminded that it's not our position

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<v Speaker 1>uh to take a stand against the president or a policy,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think that confuses the American people because we're

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<v Speaker 1>seen as military experts and in ways we always speak

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<v Speaker 1>for the military, So preserving that a political aspect of

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<v Speaker 1>the United States military is absolutely at the top of

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<v Speaker 1>my list in terms of priorities for the country. That

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<v Speaker 1>was Admiral Mike Mullen, and I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with him, so thoughtful about so many aspects of his

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<v Speaker 1>own career, the role of the military, the political time

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<v Speaker 1>we are living in, and the role that we all

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<v Speaker 1>have to play. You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra,

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<v Speaker 1>be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Live

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<v Speaker 1>Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly, this is Bloomberg,