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Speaker 1: What if everything you thought you knew about autism and

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Speaker 1: mental health wasn't the full story. Today's conversation might change

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Speaker 1: the way you see it. This is why not me

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Speaker 1: embracing autism and mental health worldwide, real conversations about autism,

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Speaker 1: mental health and the stories that shape our lives. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tony Mantor. This is where understanding begins. If this kind

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Speaker 1: of conversation matters to you, follow the show so you

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Speaker 1: don't miss what comes next. Joining us today for part

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Speaker 1: two of our two part series our doctor Aaron Meyer

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Speaker 1: and Anne Marie Council. Last week's conversation was so insightful

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Speaker 1: and meaningful, we decided it needed more time. Today we

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Speaker 1: continue that discussion. It has been said that the La

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Speaker 1: County Jail is the largest psychological hospital in the country.

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Speaker 1: How do we correct that?

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Speaker 2: Preaching to the choir? I completely agree.

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Speaker 3: Could you imagine I've actually heard someone say, what if

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Speaker 3: we could take the men's prison in LA and convert

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Speaker 3: it into actually holistic secured placement treatment and not have.

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Speaker 2: It via jail. But it's the same people. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think you're onto something.

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Speaker 1: Well, I haven't been doing this a long time. One

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Speaker 1: story I hear over and over again, from those that

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Speaker 1: are in the autistic community and from those that deal

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Speaker 1: with serious mental illness. It is what I call the

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Speaker 1: ten year loop. It can take nearly a decade from

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Speaker 1: the time someone realized something is wrong to the point

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Speaker 1: where they finally get the right support and feel stable

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Speaker 1: and safe in their lives. Why does that process takes

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Speaker 1: so long? And more importantly, what steps do we need

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Speaker 1: to take in order to break that ten year cycle?

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Speaker 3: I cannot agree more. I think ten years is not

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Speaker 3: a conservative estimate. I think that is really well. It

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Speaker 3: is a conservative estimate because it can take more. It's

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Speaker 3: very true. The one thing I will say is I

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Speaker 3: want to I'm hoping people can change the whole idea

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Speaker 3: of people getting stabilized. And when I say that, it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like the cycle of I don't know, if

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Speaker 3: you've ever lost somebody, You go through all these stages,

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Speaker 3: but then it doesn't mean your emotions aren't going to

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Speaker 3: well up later and you have to relive it. When

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Speaker 3: someone is stable, it doesn't mean they're going to be

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Speaker 3: stable next month. So we need accountability and help for

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Speaker 3: them outreach so when they do start to destabilize, we

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Speaker 3: can then give them that intensive treatment to keep them stable.

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Speaker 3: I think that's necessary. I think that's part of housing

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Speaker 3: that heals. I don't know if you're familiar with that

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Speaker 3: by Teresa Pasquini.

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Speaker 1: I have heard of it, to be honest, I'm not

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Speaker 1: completely familiar with it.

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Speaker 3: The idea is that some people do need wrap around services,

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Speaker 3: and that's the only way that they're going to be

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Speaker 3: able to live in this society, be productive, and not

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Speaker 3: have crisis after crisis.

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Speaker 1: I totally agree. Now this question is for the both

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Speaker 1: of you. If there's one thing you wish the public

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Speaker 1: could understand about serious mental illness, what would that be.

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Speaker 4: If there's one thing that I think should change and

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Speaker 4: should be and people should be familiar with it, I

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Speaker 4: think not all access should have to come through a hospital.

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Speaker 4: I think oftentimes the only way someone can get to

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Speaker 4: a skilled nursing facility is through a hospital, and it's

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Speaker 4: difficult to do community placement in California. It's difficult when

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Speaker 4: the majority of counties limit access to conservatorship to only

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Speaker 4: a hospital setting, and if the person is chronically unable

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Speaker 4: to live safely in the community and they may end

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Speaker 4: up repeatedly cycling through the emergency department through the jail

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Speaker 4: and never make it to an inpatient psychiatric unit. This

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Speaker 4: happens with people who are connected to AOT. It happens

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Speaker 4: to people who are connected to assert of community treatment

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Speaker 4: wrap around mental health teams, and they're never able to

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Speaker 4: get to the right level of care because access to

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Speaker 4: a higher level of care has been restricted to an

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Speaker 4: in patient psychiatric unit.

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Speaker 5: I wish that people would focus.

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Speaker 4: On how government can place hospitals as a barrier between

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Speaker 4: the person who needs help the most and the governmental

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Speaker 4: energy that's mandated to provide them that care. I think

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Speaker 4: it unfairly places hospitals and burdens hospitals and leaves the

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Speaker 4: person cycling through the system.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that was a drop the mic moment,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, that's just it.

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Speaker 3: Hospitals are there, especially emergency departments, to help us in emergencies.

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Speaker 3: How many times do we go to an emergency room

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Speaker 3: and some of the delay is because there's people there

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Speaker 3: who clearly have chronic problems and they're going every day,

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Speaker 3: but they're not getting better. Wise, man, I know, doctor

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Speaker 3: Aaron Meyer always says that these are the people that

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Speaker 3: are seen the most but treated the least. So if

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Speaker 3: we could get that was supposed to be just a

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Speaker 3: shout out to my partner, obviously, but if we could

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Speaker 3: get access for chronic disability issues through a different avenue

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Speaker 3: than the hospital, I think it would be life changing.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, that's what our paper on fifty two

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Speaker 3: hundred was basically talking about.

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Speaker 1: When you think about the future of those dealing with

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Speaker 1: serious mental illness across the US, and of course in

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Speaker 1: your state, would all the discussions that are going on now,

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Speaker 1: what gives you the most hope?

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Speaker 5: I think what.

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Speaker 4: Gives me the most hope is that people are getting

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Speaker 4: sick and tired and they're speaking up. The pendulum is

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Speaker 4: swinging away from neglect towards an awareness that there is

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Speaker 4: a population that's not getting served adequately or at all

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Speaker 4: by our current systems, and that we need to course

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Speaker 4: correct away from a system that has been only designed

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Speaker 4: for people who are willing and able to access it.

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Speaker 4: And I think people are starting to recognize the need

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Speaker 4: to also care for a population of people who lack

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Speaker 4: awareness into the severity of their diagnosis due to antisignosia.

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Speaker 3: Well as usually I agree with all that, and I

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Speaker 3: would just chime in and say that the advocates that

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Speaker 3: have been born from tragedy. I think are going to

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Speaker 3: be the people who move this forward the strongest. We

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Speaker 3: have parents who lost a loved one, and instead of

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Speaker 3: just worrying about themselves, they don't want their child to

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Speaker 3: die in vain. They don't want their love one to

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Speaker 3: die in vain. They want it to be a message,

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Speaker 3: a message that the system is broken and that there's

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Speaker 3: a better way. And I have just so much respect

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Speaker 3: and admiration for those that do that, take their pain

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Speaker 3: and turn it into something good, good message.

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Speaker 1: If you had the attention of every single policymaker, health

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Speaker 1: care leader, community care leader for just one minute, what

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Speaker 1: would you tell them needs to change right now?

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Speaker 5: And I would say, we need access.

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Speaker 2: We need beds, we need places for people to go.

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Speaker 4: And we need not only new laws, but we need

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Speaker 4: our current laws to work, and we need to make

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Speaker 4: sure that there's effective oversight to make sure that they

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Speaker 4: work well.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up.

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Speaker 3: I hate to I just want to say, did you

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Speaker 3: talk about the fifty two hundred issue earlier in the

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Speaker 3: podcast not in dept. Did you want to take that

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Speaker 3: because I think you made a really good point, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure the listeners know the depth of it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, in California, we have court ordered mental health evaluations

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Speaker 4: where any person can request to the county that there's

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Speaker 4: a person who may be danger to themselves or others

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Speaker 4: or gravely to say so, unable to live safely in

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Speaker 4: the community. This is in addition to the process where

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Speaker 4: anyone can call nine one one and request mental health support.

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Speaker 4: The problem with calling nine one one for mental health

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Speaker 4: support is that it can be limited to a point

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Speaker 4: in time assessment where it's linked to an emergency, and

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Speaker 4: when someone is chronically living in such a state that

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Speaker 4: they can't live safely in the community, sometimes this can

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Speaker 4: be dismissed as well. This is the person's baseline, and

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Speaker 4: so for these court ordered mental health evaluations, the county

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Speaker 4: is required to do the evaluation and have a more

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Speaker 4: thorough review than a just a moment in time assessment.

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Speaker 4: And if there's a reason to believe that the person

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Speaker 4: is a danger or gravely disabled, they can petition to

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Speaker 4: the court and if the judge here's the evidence and

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Speaker 4: believes that there's probable cause, can make an order where

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Speaker 4: the person either voluntarily or involuntarily comes for a mental

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Speaker 4: health evaluation. We submitted fifty eight Public Record Act requests,

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Speaker 4: and no county has an active process for this code

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Speaker 4: section until we recently found one county in California has

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Speaker 4: been doing it. And so I don't think there has

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Speaker 4: been hardly enough oversight by the state into why this

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Speaker 4: code section isn't being used. And if we had more

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Speaker 4: oversight and the state had ensured that this code section

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Speaker 4: was being.

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Speaker 5: Followed, would we need other laws?

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Speaker 4: So before creating other laws, sometimes, let's make sure the

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Speaker 4: ones that we have Werek.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's go into the future twenty years from now

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Speaker 1: when people look back at what we've done and how

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Speaker 1: we helped and handled those with serious mental illness. What

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Speaker 1: do you think they'll find that we did right? Then?

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Speaker 1: What is it that you wish that we will finally fix?

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Speaker 3: I think what we did right, and it's funny. We

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Speaker 3: did it right and we did it wrong. And when

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Speaker 3: I say we, it was well before any of us

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Speaker 3: were born, when John F. Kennedy first wanted community treatment

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Speaker 3: as opposed to asylums, and then Ronald Reagan approved the

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Speaker 3: LPs Act and closed a lot of the mental hospitals

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Speaker 3: in favor of this community treatment, letting people live within

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Speaker 3: the community rather than in these large facilities. Absolutely fantastic idea.

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Speaker 3: The problem that we'd had was when they closed the facilities,

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Speaker 3: the money went somewhere else. The money didn't go into

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Speaker 3: those community treatment options. So we had the right idea,

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Speaker 3: but the ball got dropped. So now what I hope

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Speaker 3: in twenty years is that we have a population in

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Speaker 3: jail that's reduced by at least twenty six percent, because

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Speaker 3: I know that some of the conservative estimates of those

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Speaker 3: in jail with serious mental illness is about twenty six percent.

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Speaker 3: If we can reduce our law enforcement needs, our jail needs,

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Speaker 3: our court needs, and put it into preventative, holistic, compassionate care,

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Speaker 3: I think then we can be proud of ourselves.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure in the county systems that design public

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Speaker 4: behavioral healthcare, I'm not sure there's even five percent of

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Speaker 4: the people who have spent time in an inpatient psychiatric

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Speaker 4: unit and really know what it's like to evaluate and

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Speaker 4: treat someone with severe mental illness. People who are unable

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Speaker 4: to care for themselves. And I think if our systems

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Speaker 4: were more preferentially directed towards the population who can't care

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Speaker 4: for themselves, I think we'd see a lot less neglect

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Speaker 4: and incarceration.

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Speaker 1: Earlier in our conversation we spoke about community and of

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Speaker 1: course grassroots efforts to help those with serious mental illness.

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Speaker 1: If one of our listeners today decides they want to

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Speaker 1: take and make one effort to help those in their

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Speaker 1: community with serious mental illness, what would you tell them

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Speaker 1: to do first?

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Speaker 2: That's actually a hard one.

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Speaker 3: I would say, first, change your mindset, because mindset, really

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Speaker 3: it's the only thing we can control truly, and I

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Speaker 3: think there is you know, I didn't bring it up earlier,

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Speaker 3: but if somebody wants to see the paper that doctor

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Speaker 3: Meyer and I were talking about on this other access

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Speaker 3: point fifty two hundred, if you go on Quarterturnstrategies dot com,

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Speaker 3: you can get a free copy of that and just

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Speaker 3: download it. And the reason I bring it up is

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Speaker 3: quarter Tern. The reason I called the company that was

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Speaker 3: because I don't want the pendulum to swing to the

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Speaker 3: other side.

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Speaker 2: It's not one or the other.

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Speaker 3: It's not all voluntary or all involuntary.

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Speaker 2: I want to turn the system.

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Speaker 3: Just thoughtfully and a little bit, so we have that balance.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I would say, is, let's change our

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Speaker 3: mental mindset to say involuntary care is sometimes the compassionate

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Speaker 3: and right thing to do, as long as do process

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Speaker 3: is still maintained.

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Speaker 4: I think we need to listen to parents more. I

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Speaker 4: think we need to listen to the experience of parents,

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Speaker 4: and we also need to listen to people's experience who

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Speaker 4: have been through inpatient psychiatric units, have been through involuntary treatment,

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Speaker 4: because I think you would see that not only is

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Speaker 4: access an issue, quality can also be an issue. And

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Speaker 4: we have, for instance, for people who are on conservatorships,

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Speaker 4: we have individualized treatment plans, and sometimes the oversight of

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Speaker 4: these individualized treatment plans is not existed. The whole purpose

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Speaker 4: of getting onto a conservatorship, besides the support, is to

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Speaker 4: get off the conservatorship. And so if we focused on

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Speaker 4: people's experience within treatment settings and caregivers and families experience

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Speaker 4: of trying to navigate the system and get high quality care,

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Speaker 4: I think we could learn a lot. I would hope

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Speaker 4: that our policy makers and also the people who are

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Speaker 4: in charge of implementing and designing these systems, would pay attention.

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Speaker 1: One day you decide to have a reflection. That reflection

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Speaker 1: can be a week, it can be a month, it

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Speaker 1: can be a year. It can be any timeframe that

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Speaker 1: is relevant to this question. What is one story or

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Speaker 1: experience that fundamentally changed the way you look at serious

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Speaker 1: mental illness and the health care that we give today.

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Speaker 2: I know exactly the story. It's obviously a sad one.

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Speaker 3: We had a patient that the first responders were really

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Speaker 3: trying to help. They love all their patients in their

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Speaker 3: own way. They care about them, see them as human beings,

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Speaker 3: and that is what helps them build rapport, make that connection,

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Speaker 3: and the goal is to save lives. I know a

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Speaker 3: lot of energy went into getting an LPs conservatorship or

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Speaker 3: a chronic alcoholic. He'd been an alcoholic for I want

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Speaker 3: to say over twenty years. I worked with doctor Meyer

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Speaker 3: on this case, so I know he knows what I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about. We thought it was it was just enormous

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Speaker 3: effort to get this LPs conservatorship. Finally got him in

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Speaker 3: the hospital. He was cared for, he improved, he looked terrific.

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Speaker 3: The problem there was nowhere to transfer him. There was

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Speaker 3: no secured placement treatment program bed for someone who was

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Speaker 3: a chronic alcoholic. This was about five years ago, so

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Speaker 3: he was in the hospital warehouse for like eight months

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Speaker 3: and then released from the ITP, the individualized treatment plan.

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Speaker 2: What did he do?

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Speaker 3: Twenty four hours later, he was back in the er,

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Speaker 3: already drinking too much, and he died six weeks later.

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Speaker 2: That's a system failure.

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Speaker 3: We had a problem getting access, But once we get

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Speaker 3: the access, what doctor Meyer was talking about about those

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Speaker 3: individual treatment plans is critical.

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Speaker 2: If we're going to put someone in.

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Speaker 3: Involuntary care, we better have resources to give them, the

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Speaker 3: programming to give them and the care that's going to

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Speaker 3: help improve their lives rather than hurt it.

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Speaker 4: So my case situation would be somewhat similar. There's a

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Speaker 4: person who we cared for in the hospital who also

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Speaker 4: had severe alcohol use disorder, and we had our city

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Speaker 4: teams bring him a PlayStation because he also had a

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Speaker 4: long period of time waiting for the next step. He

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Speaker 4: eventually got to a mental health rehabilitation center where he

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Speaker 4: did very well, and we.

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Speaker 5: Would visit him.

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Speaker 4: A colleague and I would visit him, bring him legos,

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Speaker 4: things that he'd liked to do to keep his mind active.

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Speaker 4: And when he was transitioned to a board and care

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Speaker 4: a different type of residential facility, he quickly left and

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Speaker 4: resumed drinking and was transitioned. Then not to a more

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Speaker 4: therapeutic setting, but to a skilled nursing facility as a

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Speaker 4: forty year old. When we have gaps in the behavioral

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Speaker 4: health continuum of care where you're going to go straight

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Speaker 4: from an intensive mental health rehabilitation center to an unlocked

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Speaker 4: board and care facility, there needs to be somewhere in between.

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Speaker 4: It's painful and ethically brought for me when I'm considering

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Speaker 4: what's the best situation for this person, for him to

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Speaker 4: be repeatedly through the er head trauma after head trauma,

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Speaker 4: intoxication after intoxication, versus in a skilled nursing facility where

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Speaker 4: he's probably not cognitively engaged. And it's situations like that

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Speaker 4: where the system failures lead to I think me feeling

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Speaker 4: haunted by that situation.

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Speaker 1: Let's say a listener happens to come into this conversation

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Speaker 1: a little later than we anticipated. What is one important

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Speaker 1: thing that you think they need to take away that

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Speaker 1: could be so very important to the surroundings that they

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Speaker 1: may be dealing with today.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think on a broader level, mental health touches

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Speaker 3: us all, and I think that if the stigma stays

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Speaker 3: and people don't talk about it, you know, my son

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Speaker 3: is a problem, we can't talk about it. Or my

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Speaker 3: wife has a problem, we can't talk about it. Then

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Speaker 3: that obviously pushes the stigma medical insurance, which doctor Meyer

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Speaker 3: is more of the expert on that than I am.

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Speaker 2: But we don't have parody of treatment.

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Speaker 3: If you come in with a heart condition, there is

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Speaker 3: a treatment for you, and you're going to get that.

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Speaker 3: If you come in with this severe mental health condition,

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Speaker 3: maybe you'll get released, maybe you'll get care.

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Speaker 2: It's not treated the same way. It's not underested in

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Speaker 2: the same way.

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Speaker 1: I am so glad you brought that up. I had

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Speaker 1: this one conversation with a gentleman about his son who

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Speaker 1: was going through some serious mental illness. He was walking

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Speaker 1: down the street completely naked and thought he was invisible. Luckily,

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Speaker 1: he had two really good policemen that came across him.

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Speaker 1: They put him in the back seat, They did not

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Speaker 1: handcuff him. They turned on his favorite music, god him

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Speaker 1: really comfortable. They took him to a hospital and the

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Speaker 1: hospital said, I'm sorry, we can't treat this person. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as luck would have it again, he had a great

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Speaker 1: first responder, and he asked the doctor what his address was.

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Speaker 1: The doctor replied what does that have to do with anything?

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Speaker 1: He said, since he's not a problem, we're going to

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Speaker 1: drop him off at your house. Wow, then things changed,

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Speaker 1: they treated him. How do we get past that that

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Speaker 1: kid needed help? He wasn't a danger to anyone else,

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Speaker 1: There was no clear danger to himself, but it definitely

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Speaker 1: showed he needed help. If it wasn't for that good

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Speaker 1: policeman doing what he did, he would not have received help.

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Speaker 1: How do we change that scenario?

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Speaker 5: I mean, what you're asking is, how do we get

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Speaker 5: people to wake up?

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Speaker 1: You are one hundred percent correct?

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Speaker 4: How do we get people to pay attention and think

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Speaker 4: about themselves in that situation, to have a little bit

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Speaker 4: of empathy and to I think if empathy led our systems,

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Speaker 4: we'd have more person centered systems versus system centered care

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Speaker 4: where looking at how someone can be excluded versus how

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Speaker 4: we can include someone. And I think we need to

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Speaker 4: have a much more inclusive behavioral health system that doesn't

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Speaker 4: discriminate against people who are unable to engage or doesn't

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Speaker 4: exclude people with physical health diagnoses. We need an integrated system.

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Speaker 4: And so I would encourage your listeners to help wake

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Speaker 4: people up.

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Speaker 3: You know a funny thing about that story, and there's

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Speaker 3: nothing funny about that story. A good argument could be

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Speaker 3: made that he was obviously a danger to himself because

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Speaker 3: he is so vulnerable walking around naked, walk.

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Speaker 2: Into traffic, the attack.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so the idea that he wasn't a danger

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Speaker 3: to himself I do take cause with.

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Speaker 2: However, I think.

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Speaker 3: Everybody seems to think you need an emergency to get help,

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Speaker 3: and that is the practice, isn't it, Because an emergency

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Speaker 3: department like we talked about earlier, is there for emergencies.

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Speaker 3: But that's not how the code is written. The code

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Speaker 3: says danger to self or danger to others. That's half

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Speaker 3: of it. But the other half is or gravely disabled.

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Speaker 3: And someone with grave disability is not in an acute

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Speaker 3: crisis except for the fact that they're an acute crisis

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Speaker 3: every day for their entire life. They're in a chronic

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Speaker 3: state of being not able to manage their basic needs.

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Speaker 3: It can be because of mental health problems or substance

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Speaker 3: use disorder problems or both. But until we actually follow

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Speaker 3: the rules that we have, we can't hope to change.

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Speaker 3: Just like doctor Meyer said, it's not even about new laws,

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Speaker 3: it's why aren't we following the ones we have, that

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Speaker 3: person should not have been released.

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Speaker 4: And we need to get to a point where you

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Speaker 4: talk about destigmatizing, but we need to stigmatize physician responses

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Speaker 4: like that. We need to stigmatize behavioral health systems that

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Speaker 4: exclude people who are unable to access them due to

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Speaker 4: the severity of their diagnosis. So we need a lot

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Speaker 4: more intolerance of systems that have lack of access, of

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Speaker 4: responses that don't acknowledge the reality of a situation. And

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Speaker 4: until we have situations where people are automatically peer reviewed

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Speaker 4: for not prescribing or recommending substance use disorder treatment, where

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Speaker 4: people are automatically peer reviewed for inappropriately dismissing people who

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Speaker 4: are clearly unable to live safely in the community, I

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Speaker 4: think until we can get to a point of both

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Speaker 4: governmental accountability and healthcare accountability, we're still going to see problems.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we are a country of it's not a problem

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Speaker 1: until it affects our family in some way. We need

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Speaker 1: to change this dynamic. They will hear things on the

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Speaker 1: news and not do their research, only to be totally misinformed.

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Speaker 1: Before I started this podcast, I knew nothing about autism

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Speaker 1: or serious mental illness, absolutely zero I would hear the

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Speaker 1: bad things that would happen on TV, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: like everybody else, put them in jail, throw away the key. Now,

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Speaker 1: after doing this for a while, my first reaction is

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Speaker 1: not that I want more information. Are they really bad

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Speaker 1: people that just do bad things because they are out there?

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Speaker 1: Or are they a product of a system failure? How

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Speaker 1: do we get people to change their view, not only

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Speaker 1: just people in society, but within the system, because if

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Speaker 1: the system doesn't change, nothing changes. How do we get

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Speaker 1: them to realize that we have to make sure the

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Speaker 1: system does not fail those that are in dire need

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Speaker 1: of our help.

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Speaker 4: So we need a lot more. We need a lot

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Speaker 4: more people who do podcasts. We need a lot more

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Speaker 4: investigative journalists who are holding people accountable and asking questions

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Speaker 4: to the government and publishing it because I think people

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Speaker 4: want accountability.

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Speaker 5: People want to.

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Speaker 4: Know that their systems are addressing the problems they see

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Speaker 4: before their eyes, and I think journalism is one of

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Speaker 4: the main ways that can cost change.

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Speaker 3: I also want to do a call out to the

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Speaker 3: incredible hospital emergency physicians that are having to battle this.

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Speaker 3: I cannot tell you how many calls I've gotten because

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Speaker 3: I've been working with doctors for several years, and they'll say,

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Speaker 3: I have someone.

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Speaker 2: Where does he go? What's available? What placement options do

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Speaker 2: I have?

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Speaker 3: And I feel like if those were available, I think

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Speaker 3: they would be a lot quicker to say, Okay, this

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Speaker 3: meets the burden. We can transfer them to get help.

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Speaker 3: But if we have blocked access and nowhere to put them,

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Speaker 3: that's pretty hard to fix. So I think we definitely

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Speaker 3: need to fix where people can get the treatment, and

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Speaker 3: then I think access will also improve.

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Speaker 1: When you really look at the homelessness situation, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people on the streets aren't there by choice. Many

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Speaker 1: are dealing with severe mental illness and simply have nowhere

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Speaker 1: else to go. When the only options become the streets

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Speaker 1: or a jail cell, something in the system is clearly broken.

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Speaker 1: How do we start building real places for people to

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Speaker 1: go before it ever gets to that point?

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Speaker 4: So much of that, I mean, obviously the number one

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Speaker 4: cause of homelessness is lack of housing, and housing is

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Speaker 4: healthcare in many instances right, And also housing alone often

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Speaker 4: isn't enough for some people with the most severe mental

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00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 4: health diagnoses, the most severe addictions, and so we need

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00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 4: a continuum of housing support and I think we need

447
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 4: to be a lot more flexible about what people need

448
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 4: it and what is in localities.

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Speaker 3: I just want to say that that is just so

450
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: spot on with needing the continuum of housing, and I

451
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 3: don't think I understood that as much until I got

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Speaker 3: into this work. But if you imagine, there's so many

453
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: different reasons that someone is homeless. If someone lost their job,

454
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: had no family, maybe they immigrated from another country. Maybe

455
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 3: they just need that housing and they can get back

456
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 3: on their feet. But if someone has severe substance use disorder,

457
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 3: they are at the point where all they want is

458
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 3: their next fix, and they may not care about themselves,

459
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 3: so how are they going to care about anything else?

460
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 3: So they get a brand new apartment and what do

461
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: they do, Well, they destroy it because they.

462
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: Don't have respect for themselves.

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00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 3: Why would they care about their surroundings makes the apartment

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00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 3: look like they feel inside.

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Speaker 2: But if we give housing that heels where we have.

466
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 3: Treatment and we have housing and we have opportunity, then

467
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: I think that's the only thing that's going to work.

468
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: Housing first cannot work with the severely mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: This conversation has been so great, great insight and conversation

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Speaker 1: I could go on forever with conversations these topics. In closing,

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00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: what is one bit of information that our listeners need

472
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: to hear that you think is important. Hopefully this way

473
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: they can do more research on the positions and not

474
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: just the ones that you've been talking about, the ones

475
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: they need to hear to better understand what needs to

476
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: be done.

477
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: I would say, when you hear something, question it. In

478
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 3: other words, just because doctor Meyer and I are explaining

479
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 3: what our experiences, question it. Research it. Make sure that

480
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 3: you're making your own decision. One thing that I have

481
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: a really hard time with is information coming out that

482
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: is just not true. I remember when doctor Meyer was

483
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: talking as a subject matter expert on LPs, and the

484
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 3: opposite side of the conversation, who was against involuntary treatment, said,

485
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is Britney Spears all over again. Well,

486
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 3: someone in the audience might think, oh, Britney Spears, that

487
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 3: was a terrible situation.

488
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: What then, don't realize is that it has nothing to

489
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: do with LPs. That was probate. But if we don't.

490
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: Question what we hear and make our own informed decision,

491
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 3: we're going to go by headlines, and then we're going

492
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 3: to believe nonsense. So I would say, take the time

493
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: to educate yourself and you'd be shocked. There's a lot

494
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 3: of like minded people out there who are seeking.

495
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 4: The truth, and I would say get involved. So in

496
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 4: San Diego County, for instance, we have a behavioral Health

497
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,719
Speaker 4: Advisory board. Every county has behavioral health advisory boards where

498
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: the public is invited to attend and is able to

499
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 4: make public comment. I think there are opportunities for voices

500
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: to be heard. And one of my hobbies is reading

501
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 4: the law, reading the code at night. So I would

502
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,959
Speaker 4: encourage people to take a look at your state's laws,

503
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 4: find out more about why the system might be failing.

504
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 4: Attend you know, board of supervisors meetings, look at laws,

505
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: and I think, don't accept the status quo and don't

506
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 4: adopt a fatalistic mindset.

507
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: Well, this has been tremendous information and great conversation. I

508
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

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00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 5: Oh yes, pleasure, Thanks for the invitation.

510
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, a sincere thank you

511
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: to our guests for sharing their journey. If today's conversation

512
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: helped you see the world a little different, then we're

513
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: doing exactly what we hope to do until next time.

514
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: Keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself,

515
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: why not me