1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: In December twenty fifteen, there was a high profile shooting 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: in San Bernardino, California, that killed fourteen people and injured 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: twenty two others. Tonight, the nation grappling with what officials 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: now say may be the deadliest terror attack on our 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: homeland since nine eleven. The FBI was brought in to 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: investigate the shooting as a terrorist attack, and they asked 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: Apple to open up the shooter's iPhone. Apple is refusing 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: to follow a government order to hat the San Bernardino 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: shooters phone. The FBI believes important clues about accomplices and 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: more plots could be hidden on that phone, but Apple 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: says that complying with the government order could endanger everyone 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: with an iPhone. This conflict ignited a heated debate over 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: whether it was okay to sacrifice civil liberties for authorities 14 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: purporting to fight violent extremism. John McAfee saw an opportunity 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: and jumped into the fray. Here he is on Russia today. 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: The FBI needs to get us to act together and 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: tell the two saying, yeah, we need it because we 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: want to spy on Americans. Cool, let's talk about that, 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: but please don't try to deceive US by pretending we're idiots. 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: We aren't. At the time, McAfee had been back in 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: the US for more than two years after being deported 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: from Central America. He was active on Twitter and appearing 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: on television talk shows trying to reassert himself as a 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: cybersecurity authority. My colleague William Turton was covering the aftermath 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: of the San Bernardino shooting for a new site called 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: The Daily Dot. He says McAfee was inserting himself into 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: the story in a desperate attempt to get attention. He 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: lied about the fact that he had a method that 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: would allow the FBI access to the phone. So you know, 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: he was presenting himself as a savior for this scenario, 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: saying that, you know, Apple didn't have to comply with 32 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: the FBI and create this new standard, that actually he 33 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: had found a solution to this issue. William was confident 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: that McAfee was lying, but McAfee was adamant. He wrote 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: an op ed declaring he would eat his shoe on 36 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: the television show if he and a team of hackers 37 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: couldn't do it. William decides to call him out on 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: this claim, and he gets McAfee on the phone. But 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm just curious as to why you did this, because 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: because by doing so, I knew that I would get 41 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: a shitload of public attention, which I did. That video 42 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: on my YouTube account you can check it has seven 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: hundred thousand views. McAfee's reaction surprised even William. It was. 44 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: It was actually kind of refreshing in a way for 45 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: someone to admit to their craven narcissism and not try 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: and spin it as something else. So my point to 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: bring to and listen to me, I'm answering a question. 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: My point is to bring to the American public the 49 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: problem that the FBI is trying to write the American public. 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: How am I going to do that by this raft 51 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: and saying it? Now, one's gonna listen to that crap, 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: So I confis something sensational. Now. What I did not 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: lie about was my ability to crack the iPhone. I 54 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: can do it. It's a piece of freaking cake. William 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: and McAfee go back and forth on the call. Eventually 56 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: he agrees to share with William how he would crack 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: the iPhone. McAfee tells William that he should try it 58 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: himself and if it works, that William should write about 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: it and give McAfee credit. Check it out if it doesn't. 60 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: If it doesn't play, say McAfee gave me a line 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: of gartmage. If it doesn't play, say McAfee told me 62 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: how to do it. Sure, but I'm confused as though 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: why you told me the whole method now and earlier 64 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: you wouldn't tell me the method. I must say kept 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: it off the recollect because I'm assuming that since you 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: kept on asking, you are not going to publish it. 67 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: If you know so, probably aren't that you aren't a liar, 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: not me. Nope, I never said that I wouldn't publish it. 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: I explicitly said that, well, our conversation. Our conversation is over, 70 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: and you need to look at yourself. You need to 71 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: look at yourself, all right, Thanks for time, miss McAfee. 72 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: William publishes his story. In the headline, he accuses McAfee 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: of lying quote to get a shitload of public attention. 74 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: He writes that McAfee's method isn't much of a secret 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: at all, and that there's a good chance it would 76 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: end up destroying the data they're trying to get. William 77 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: also uploads the recording of their entire phone call. McAfee 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: is even more furious. After I published this story, John 79 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: went on a week's long campaign to harass me and 80 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: my editors that included hacking my voicemail. I woke up 81 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: one morning and I had twenty missed calls from my 82 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: own cell phone number, and I had one new voicemail 83 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: and it was from John, and the voicemail was meant 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: to be extremely intimidating. His actually kind of made sense 85 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: because the story that I wrote was damaging to him. 86 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: It's extremely rare that I include the audio of an 87 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: interview in a story, but I did that because I 88 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: anticipated that, if not for that, he would lie about 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: the contents of the interview. I mean, the story of 90 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: I remember correctly went viral and was actually really damaging 91 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: to his credibility. He was not a fan of mine. 92 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: William felt that McAfee was a charlatan forcing his way 93 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: into the national conversation about a mass shooting. But McAfee 94 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: was right about one thing. At least, this move got 95 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: him a lot of attention. You're listening to Foundering, I'm 96 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: your host, Jamie Tara Bay. In twenty twelve, John McAfee 97 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: left Belize, where he was wanted for questioning in the 98 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: murder of his neighbor, Gregory Fall. He returned to the 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: US with a cloud of suspicion hanging over his head, 100 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: but he was free. He was also broke, alone, and 101 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: worst of all, potentially irrelevant. McAfee anti virus software had 102 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: been a widely used product for over twenty years, and 103 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: even though he didn't have anything to do with the 104 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: company anymore, McAfee cashes in any way he can. He 105 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: begins selling his most important asset, his name. Over the 106 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: next few years, McAfee finds the limelight yet again. He 107 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: exhibits his true talent beguiling women, drawing attention to himself, 108 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: and blatantly breaking the law. He also launches a bid 109 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: for the presidency of the United States. The semi serious 110 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: campaign brings him shockingly close to landing on the US ballot, 111 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: and it also introduces him to cryptocurrency, a new fascination 112 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: for McAfee that would ultimately spark his downfall. For a 113 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: time there in jail in Guatemala, John McAfee looked like 114 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: he was in real trouble. He'd entered the country illegally. 115 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: His biggest fear was getting extradited back to Belize, where 116 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: police wanted to talk to him about the murder of 117 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: his neighbor Greg Fall, but ultimately McAfee wasn't charged with 118 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: anything by authorities in Belize or Guatemala. He was deported 119 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: to the US. McAfee landed in Florida on December twelve, 120 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: twenty twelve. He said he had no money and no phone. 121 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: He checks himself into the Beacon Hotel in Miami. Canadian 122 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: filmmaker Francois Garcia arranged to lend McAfee some cash to 123 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: tide him over. Within the hour, John is on the 124 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: street and there's journalists waiting for him, and he's flashing 125 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: and seeing pictures where he's flashing out of his jacket. 126 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: The words of money and I don't know which publication, 127 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: where'd you get that money? Is like, you know, this 128 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: mysterious Canadian friend. He made it sound like, you know 129 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: it's a drug deal or drug gartel or drug kingpin 130 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: who just dropped him a bag of money. Why McAfee 131 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: needed to borrow cash is a bit of a mystery. 132 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: At the time. He said his assets were frozen when 133 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: he was fleeing Belize, and he went further to allege 134 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: that the Belizian government had seized his remaining properties and accounts, 135 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: but Francois Garcia says this isn't true. He sent us 136 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: documents showing McAfee transferring three hundred thousand dollars out of 137 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: his bank in Belize. The first of these chancefers is 138 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: dated to November seventeen, twenty twelve, less than a week 139 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: after Greg Fall was killed. As for his larger fortune, 140 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: we know he spent recklessly and also gave much of 141 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: it to his ex wife, Judy during their divorce. Whatever 142 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: his access to money was at the time, several people 143 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: told us that McAfee started this new chapter of his 144 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 1: life completely broke. McAfee was casting about for what he 145 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: was going to do next. The day after he arrived 146 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: in Miami, he was sitting at an outdoor table at 147 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: a cafe on Ocean Drive by himself when a woman 148 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: named Janice Dyson walked past. He looked rough, you know, 149 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: suit was kind of wrinkled and dirty, and oh yeah, 150 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, I kind of just kept walking And it 151 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: was actually the security that worked at his hotel who 152 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: actually pointed him out and said, you know, that's John McAfee. 153 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: The guard explained that McAfee was the same McAfee who 154 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: invented the anti virus software. Janice was a sex worker 155 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: at the time. She walked back to talk to him 156 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 1: and he was smoking a cigarette, so I asked him 157 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: for a cigarette, you know, I just asked him. I said, well, 158 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: what's your story? Who are you? Who are you? You know, 159 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: what brings you to Miami? And it's like, like, seriously, 160 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: you don't know who I am. He assumed the whole 161 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: world had been watching his flight from Belize after Greg 162 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: Fall's murder. He says he's been on television for months. 163 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: She says she doesn't watch the news. I just remember thinking, 164 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: who is this guy and how was he able to, 165 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, kind of maneuver himself through this very dangerous situation. 166 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: You know. So we spent hours of four hours just 167 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: talking and okay, and I spent the night with him, 168 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: and we were together every day after that. Janice was 169 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: thirty years old. She said she felt a certain camaraderie 170 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: with John. She's been living in her own hell in Miami. 171 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: She'd given up custody of her three children to her parents. 172 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: She'd been unable to disentangle herself from an abusive and 173 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: exploitative relationship, so McAfee represented a kind of escape. We 174 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: spent a week together in Miami. Then he asked me 175 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: to come and meet him in Tennessee and we were 176 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: going to drive from there to Portland. So we're on 177 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: this road trip, which was like three weeks. You know, 178 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: we took our time and really does so we got 179 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: to know each other on that road trip. What did 180 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: you like about him? Oh? Everything, everything. He's just you know, 181 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: he's very smart. Obviously it's intelligence, but also at the 182 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: same time, it's still very down to earth. I feel 183 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: like I could relate to him. The relationship between Janis 184 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: and John McAfee began as a commercial transaction, but over 185 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: time it became deeper. She says that by the summer 186 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: of the next year, he asked her to marry him. 187 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: McAfee spent much of twenty thirteen living quietly with Janis 188 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon. She would beat his partner up until 189 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: his death in twenty twenty one. During that first year. 190 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: In June twenty thirteen, he released a YouTube video that 191 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: put him back in the spotlight. Fuck send oh, Hello there. 192 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: My name is Sean McAfee. I'm the founder of the 193 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: McAfee anti virus software company. Although I've had nothing to 194 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: do with this company for over fifteen years, I still 195 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: get volumes of mail asking how do I uninstall this software? 196 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: I had no idea. He's in the robe. He snorts 197 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: white powder through a straw. There's a box labeled bath 198 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: salt on the table in front of him. There are 199 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: women massaging him and undressing him, including Janie. At the 200 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: end of the video, she picks up an automatic rifle 201 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: and walks away with McAfee. He told Business Insider that 202 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: he made the video to parody the allegations about him 203 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: in the media. The greatest thing about that was that 204 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: after that video that the headlines about me were vastly reduced. 205 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: Because once you've, once you've accepted the fact that guard 206 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: you's have been living with seven women. Okay, fine, let's 207 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 1: get seven women in this video and put him in 208 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: the scantily clad clothes, and I would be as decadent 209 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: as possible. Then what mud can you sling? I mean, 210 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: I've already slung in it myself. Now. This video came 211 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: out three years after Intel bought McAfee, the company for 212 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: over seven billion dollars, but it had been more than 213 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: a day since John McAfee had anything to do with 214 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: the company except in name. There was money to be 215 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: made off of his famous product, just not by him. 216 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: He wanted to reclaim his name, and he was about 217 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: to do so in a very splashy way. We'll be 218 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: right back. By twenty fifteen, McAfee and Janice had left 219 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: Portland and were living in Lexington, Tennessee. He had some 220 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: new viral fame from the video he made. The next 221 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: step was rebuilding his fortune. It all comes down to 222 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: the idea of milking his name for its value. That's 223 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: my colleague Brody Ford, who reported on McAfee and his 224 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: business dealings during this period. Everybody knows McAfee the innovator. 225 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: Everybody knows the name McAfee, So he's making money off 226 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: speaking fees, hacker conferences, that kind of thing. It was 227 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: around this time when McAfee met an entrepreneur named Kyle 228 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: Sandler who was running a business incubator in a small 229 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: town called Opelika in Alabama. John was dirt broke when 230 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: I met him, and I was paying for his hotels 231 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: when he would come to visit. Kyle Sandler and McAfee 232 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: became close. They worked as business partners. Brodie says it 233 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: was a beneficial relationship for McAfee. He needed new customers 234 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: and he needed a place to look more legitimate. And 235 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: Kyle had this massive kind of like what we would 236 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: think of as a co working space, kind of a 237 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: wee work type thing there. And John was living in 238 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: rural Tennessee at this time, so there's all these accounts 239 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: of him driving down there in the middle of the 240 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: night in an old beat up pickup truck to a 241 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: beat up with clients at Kyle's incubator. So hanging around 242 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: Kyle it lended both of them legitimacy in different ways. 243 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: It would turn out that at the time Kyle was 244 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: actually taking people's money and misleading them about what he 245 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: was using it. For a few years after Kyle worked 246 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: with McAfee, he actually went to prison for fraud. We'll 247 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: get into that more later, but for now, let's just 248 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: say that that willingness to deceive people was something that 249 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: Kyle and McAfee had in common. To me, Kyle understood 250 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: McAfee in a way that a lot of other people didn't, right, 251 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they both were kind of running operations that 252 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: relied on the confidence of others. Right, I mean Kyle 253 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: was a kind man at the time. Right. McAfee and 254 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: Kyle seemed to work well together, and their partnership made 255 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: the papers. USA Today wrote a splashy feature on them 256 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: in February, and shortly after that a group of investors 257 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: from a company called MGT Capital Investments reached out. Brodie says, 258 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: MGT had a pretty broad portfolio. So they had started 259 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: god like twenty years ago as a medical imaging company, 260 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: and then they went into sports betting, They went into 261 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: various kinds of tech. They really never made a whole 262 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: lot of money. They were in trouble because their stock 263 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: price was so low that they might get kicked off 264 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: of the New York Stock Exchange. So MGT said, let's pivot, 265 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: Let's do cybersecurity. What better way to drum up hype 266 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: for cybersecurity than getting the famed innovator John McAfee. So 267 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: they called up Kyle. I'm thinking, you know, this is 268 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: all bullshit, just like everything with John. But the next 269 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: day they flew into Auburn. We picked them up from 270 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: the Auburn Regional Airport and had lunch with them, and 271 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: they're all talking, you know, forty million, this forty million, 272 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: that the deal from MGT was significantly bigger than anything 273 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: on McAfee's immediate horizon. I think it's safe to say 274 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: it was the biggest deal McAfee I had seen since 275 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: coming back to America. But he walked away because he 276 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: felt like they were asking too much of him. He 277 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: felt like the startups he had in his consulting fees 278 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: would pay off. But he came to kind of regret that, 279 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, dude, you're stupid. You should have just 280 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: taken the money. And so about six or seven months 281 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: goes by and John is still broke and the startups 282 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: that he has him just shit. So we had decided 283 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: we needed to do something to make some noise. And 284 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: I really just jokingly said, what about if you run 285 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: for president? And he gets back to Tennessee the next 286 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,360 Speaker 1: day and I'm totally not even thinking about this conversation. 287 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: He's like, Kyle, I think I want to do it. 288 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: Do what? John? Run for president? Are you fucking crazy? 289 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: To Kyle, running for president is an insane way to 290 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: resuscitate your career, especially if you're broke and the major 291 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: business deal falls through, but that's what mcavig planned to do. 292 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: This was in the summer of twenty fifteen. Already quite 293 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: a few people had announced their intention to make a 294 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: play for the White House in twenty sixteen, but it 295 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: was months ahead of the first primary vote and no 296 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: party had a clear front runner. And in addition that June, 297 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: another controversial businessman without any political experience, had also just 298 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: announced his run and was doing shockingly well in the polls. 299 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: I am offacially running for president of the United States, 300 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: and we are going to make our country grade again. 301 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: In the twenty sixteen primaries, there was a sense in 302 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: the air that people were more willing for non traditional candidates. 303 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: Right you had Bernie Sanders out performing anybody's expectation. You 304 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: had Donald Trump appearing and not fizzling out and actually 305 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: leading the whole thing. And then among Libertarians you had 306 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: John McAfee emerge, and a lot of people thought, well, 307 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: no dust, somebody like John mc if he jumped in. 308 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that was just the energy in the air 309 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: at the time. There was a lot of populist, non 310 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: traditional candidates popping up. McAfee had a core fan base 311 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: of hackers, and his name could draw a crowd. Kyle 312 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: said they threw one of their first fundraisers at a 313 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: strip club, which seems very on brands from McAfee. Larry 314 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: Flint's Hustler Club is like the one of the biggest 315 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: strip clubs in America. It's like four levels, elevators, girls everywhere. 316 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: We rented the whole freaking thing, and you know, there 317 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: was all kinds of campaign finance laws being broken. That day. 318 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: Took probably about two million dollars in bitcoins and paypals. 319 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: This was twenty fifteen and is twenty twenty two. No, literally, 320 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: I'm trying to make sure that if there's anything that 321 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: I'm about to admit that's crime, that statute of limitations 322 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: is up for real. Okay. So Kyle is alleging that 323 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: from the start the campaign was raking in money and 324 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: breaking the law. We haven't been able to confirm that, 325 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: and there weren't any legal repercautions that we could find. 326 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: The next month, on September ninth, McAfee formally announced he 327 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: was running for president. It was an immediate news story. 328 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: John McAfee has entered the White House race as a libertarian. 329 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: He originally planned to run from the highest office under 330 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: his own cyber party, but he ended up choosing to 331 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: go with the Libertarian Party for a number of reasons. 332 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: After Democrats and Republicans. They are the largest party in 333 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: the US. There's a big difference. They do not come close, 334 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: but they are the next largest. They already have ballot 335 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: access in all fifty states. They have an established media infrastructure. 336 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: McAfee wouldn't have to build his own from the ground up, 337 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: so joining the Libertarians gave him a platform that he 338 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: didn't have to build himself. So anti tax, pro gun, 339 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: pro drug, anti regulation of any kind in so many ways, 340 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: McAfee was the perfect fit for the Libertarians. He's a 341 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: tech entrepreneur who brags about doing drugs not paying taxes. 342 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: He was well suited for a party that valorizes the 343 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: image of frontier masculinity. I mean, that's just his aura. 344 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: He doesn't give a fuck, and most of the Libertarians 345 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: don't give a fuck, so he resonated with them. In 346 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: a matter of months, McAfee learned how to tailor his 347 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: talking points for his new party. Even Darryl Perry, a 348 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: long time Libertarian who ran against McAfee in twenty sixteen, 349 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: was impressed and I was like, oh, okay, it's like, 350 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, just some celebrity guy that jumping into the 351 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: LP race because he realized ballot access as hard. But 352 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: then over like the next six months, he started sounding 353 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: a lot more libertarian. By the way, Darryl Perry is 354 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: best known for this viral clip of a response he 355 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: gave during a presidential debate in twenty sixteen while he 356 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: was on stage with McAfee. Should someone have to have 357 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: a government issued license to drive a car? Hell no, 358 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: what's next requiring a license to make toast in your 359 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: own damn toaster. I hadn't known before we made this 360 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: episode that driver's licenses were controversial among libertarians. Here's McAfee. 361 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: I don't think licenses are required. However, if you are 362 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: under sixteen and your parents so you can drive, and 363 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: you haven't done it before, you should put a flashing 364 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: pink light on your roof, at least so we can 365 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: get out of your way. There was another question John 366 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: had to answer repeatedly. Candidate McAfee. Everyone knows that something 367 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: happened in Belize, but no one seems to have the story. 368 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: What are you accused of? Did you do it? And 369 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: how would this affect your campaign if you are the nominee. 370 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: Let me make this perfectly clear. At number one, I 371 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the murder of 372 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: Gregory Fall. The moderator you hear is magician Pendalet from 373 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: Penn and Teller and one of the best known celebrity libertarians. 374 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: Although McAfee was questioned about the murder of Gregfall, the 375 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: topic was treated casually, incredibly, it didn't seem to hurt 376 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: him in the debates. This is a clip from Fox. 377 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 1: You went to Belize. Police there accused you of unlicensed 378 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: drug manufacturing. You were a person of interest in the 379 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: murder of a neighbor. You left, police went to Guatemala, 380 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: which suported you to America. You're still technically a fugitive, 381 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: though they don't seem that interested in grabbing you. People 382 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: go wild, they're cheering, they're celebrating, laughing. Gary Johnson, the 383 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: front runner who would later get millions of votes, walks 384 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: over and kisses McAfee on the cheek. You know, libertarians 385 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: were not other by the Greg Fall murder accusations. McAfee's 386 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: past was treated lightly when it wasn't a bizarre point 387 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: of pride. It was the punchline to endless Jokes. Here's 388 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: a clip from Full Frontal with Samantha b Eighteen libertarian 389 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: presidential hopefuls gathered to take on the tyranny of big government. 390 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: They were educators, pro lifers, anarchists, veterans, and a millionaire 391 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: wanted for questioning by authorities in the murder of his 392 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: neighbor and Belize after he fled the country in a 393 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: disguise to Guatemala, faked to heart attack, and was deported 394 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: to the US. Well all you see. Brodie says that 395 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: McAfee's suggestion that these murder allegations were pinned on him 396 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: by a crooked Belizean government gelled with the libertarian ethos. 397 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: Their entire belief system is based on the idea that 398 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: governments are corrupt, they're wrong. The idea that the Belize 399 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 1: government was corrupt and wrong in accusing him doesn't seem 400 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: far fetched at all, So it really wasn't a problem 401 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: for him. In a few months, McAfee learned to breathe 402 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: through libertarian talking points. He criticized the FDA, he supported 403 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: withdrawing US troops from overseas wars, and he promised to 404 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: deliver real change in America. I am a walking revolution, 405 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: I promise you, with all of its drawbacks and all 406 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: of its risks, the Libertarian Party is also a revolution. 407 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: Watching these videos, it's remarkable how comfortable McAfee is on 408 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: the stage. He's charismatic, he's easy in front of a crowd. 409 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: He was even sympathetic, like this moment when he casually 410 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: mentions his new wife, Janice during one debate. When I 411 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: came back to the States. My first day back, I 412 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: was penniless. I all I had was my jacket and 413 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: my shoes. And I met this woman who was thirty 414 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: years old, beaten and battered. He was forced into prostitution 415 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty. I rescued her personally, I 416 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: married her, and I hope she's watching the stream tonight. 417 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: I love you, baby. McAfee was in good spirits during 418 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: the debates. Behind the scenes, he was making business deals. 419 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: His presidential campaign and renewed TV presents were about to 420 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: pay off financially. MGT Capital, the company that flew the 421 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: private jets to Alabama, they're coming back to the table. 422 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: They want to hire him. They're they're dangling millions and 423 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: stock options, a CEO title, They even want to invest 424 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: in Kyle's startup incubator. So McAfee begins really talking with 425 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: them about transitioning all the attention he got in the 426 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: presidential campaign and to doing another public company gig and 427 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, making millions in the process. Kyle Soundler remembers 428 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: leading up to the deal, the MGT folks told everyone 429 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: in the know to buy the share because they would 430 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: explode once the McAfee news became public. The MGT guys 431 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: basically told us to tell our friends and whoever we 432 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: trust to invest in this penny stock. It was trading 433 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: out a quarter and by the end of the week 434 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: it was five dollars and twenty five cents. In case 435 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: you're wondering, yes that could be considered insider trading. According 436 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: to the SEC. Yes it could be illegal, and yes 437 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: there were charges coming, but McAfee wasn't worried. The deal 438 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: went through in May, and here he is bragging about 439 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: it during another libertarian debate a week later. A month ago, 440 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: I was approached by a company listed on the New 441 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange, and they wanted to know, is it 442 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: possible to get our stock price up fifty percent within 443 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: six months? Because if not we're going to get delisted, 444 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: meaning you're gone. I said, well, I don't know, I'll 445 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: try it on Monday. I took over as the CEO. 446 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: On Friday, the stock closed up seven h MGT's share 447 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: price explosion caught the eyes of investors and the mainstream 448 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: business press. Here's Bloomberg TV's Emily Chang. MGT Capital is 449 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: an online gaming company that was once a penny stock, 450 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: but served tenfold earlier this year on the announcement that 451 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: it had signed none other than the anti virus Gurup. 452 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: It didn't take long for this to catch the attention 453 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: of the SEC. The share price explodes, everybody involved in 454 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: the deal gets rich, right, Kyle makes money, McAfee makes money. 455 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: All the people who are working with an MGT Capital 456 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: makes money. But then the government regulators say, hey, this 457 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: company hasn't made money in sixteen years, And they would 458 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: later allege in a lawsuit against a lot of the 459 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,239 Speaker 1: MGT Capital core people that this was stock price manipulation. Right, 460 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: this was illegal pumping up. The SEC formally sued a 461 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: group of MGT shareholders a little over two years later 462 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: for pumping up the price of MGT and two other 463 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: companies in a similar way. The litigation is ongoing, and 464 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: today MGT trades for about one cent a share, down 465 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: more than ninety nine percent from its value at the time. 466 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: McAfee gloated about boosting the stock. Amazingly, McAfee and Kyle 467 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: Sandler were never accused of any wrongdoing, and McAfee made 468 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: millions in the deal. His salary that year as CEO 469 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: of MGT, which was renamed McAfee Global Technologies, was seven 470 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: million in stock, and he may have made even more 471 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: on the initial deal. The SEC filings show that Janus 472 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: his wife had stock options too. The gamble of a 473 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: presidential run had paid off. Kyle says this was the 474 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: whole reason McAfee ran for president. The whole campaign was 475 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: a first. It obviously brought and everybody back to the table. 476 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: They made the huge investment. Everybody made money. That was 477 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: part of it. In addition to the MGT windfall, McAfee 478 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: was also sitting on those campaign contributions. Kyle left the 479 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: campaign by the end of twenty fifteen to focus on 480 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: his own businesses. Two and a half years later, Kyle 481 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: was arrested for fraud related to his incubator in Opelika Alabama. 482 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: Around the time of kyle sentencing, McAfee was making himself 483 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: out to be the victim. He posted this video to Twitter. 484 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: One of the slickest con artists I've ever met named 485 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: Kyle Sandler. I met him in Opelaka, Alabama, when he 486 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: was originally setting his business up. I had a business 487 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: in the same town and we became friends. I got 488 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: sucked into his scams like everybody else. Kyle was sentenced 489 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: to five years in federal prison, but he was released 490 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: early for good behavior. We spoke to him a few 491 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: months after he got out. He now makes TikTok videos 492 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: about his prison experience. Hi. My name is Kyle Sandler, 493 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: and I was sentenced sixty three months in federal prison 494 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: for stealing one point nine million dollars from the investors 495 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: in my venture capital fund. I knew prison tips and 496 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: more here on TikTok, So please give me a salad 497 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: and hit that plus subscribe button right over there on 498 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: the right hand side of your phone. He disagrees with McAfee, 499 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: calling him the best con artist, but not for the 500 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: reason he might expect. And am I the best comment 501 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: in the world? No, John is by far he could 502 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: outcom me any day and he has. Kyle was done, 503 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: but the McAfee campaign kept rolling, exceeding anyone's expectations. We'll 504 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: be right back, okay where in April twenty sixteen, time 505 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: is ticking down to the Libertarian National Convention in May, 506 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: where delegates would choose their presidential candidate, and McAfee gets 507 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: a new campaign manager, Tiffany Madison. She says she could 508 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: tell that McAfee and Kyle were doing something fishy in 509 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: the early days of the campaign. There's an air that 510 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: people have when they're grifters, and there was a lot 511 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: of grifting energy in that space. He generally attracted pile 512 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: types right that are fun artists. They think that's they 513 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: moved back. John's very attracted to that busy energy. Tiffany 514 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: had been a Libertarian for most of her life when 515 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: she took over the day to day operations of McAfee's campaign. 516 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: She believed his story and she saw huge potential in 517 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: him as a candidate. He was someone with bona fides 518 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: as a businessman and who could appeal to the wilder 519 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: impulses of the libertarian electorate. But she was shocked at 520 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: the state of the campaign. He had no idea what 521 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: was going on under the hood of his own campaign. 522 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: The website didn't work, there were no payment gateways to 523 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: take donations, there were no donations being solicited. I mean, 524 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: if I could just sabotage a campaign and then hand 525 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: it to you on a platter, that's literally what was 526 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: being done. Tiffany also noticed that the campaign finances weren't 527 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: quite adding up. The discrepancy started when Kyle Sandler was 528 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: managing everything. Here's Brodie. Kyle doesn't dispute that the campaign 529 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: was about money, right. He says that he saw about 530 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: two million come in and donations while he was there, 531 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: and that includes in bitcoin. While the campaign only disclosed 532 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: about fifty thousand and finding and forty thousand and expenses federally, 533 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: that's way less than what other libertarians spent on their campaign, 534 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 1: about less than a tenth what Gary Johnson spent. The 535 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: campaign took donations in bitcoin. They're supposed to be transparency 536 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: in a campaign as part of the whole process, But 537 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: he kept a bitcoin wellt on his phone, and we 538 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: have no idea how much bitcoin was actually taken except 539 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: for the emails we'd get. We're like, you know, I 540 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: just gave fifty thousand dollars worth a bitcoin. So is 541 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: the guy lying? Or is John Lyne? Who knows. When 542 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: Tiffany took over in April, she made a strong push 543 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: to revitalize the campaign, but she only had a month 544 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: before the primary, and her efforts came too late. Bilibertarian 545 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: Party already has its ticket. Former New Mexico Governor Gary 546 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: Johnson won the presidential nomination for a second time. He 547 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: got about one fin of the vote when he ran 548 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. McAfee came in third, but he wasn't bothered. 549 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: The MGT deal had come through just two weeks earlier. 550 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: He was a millionaire ceo again. He spent the day 551 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: before the vote handing out his delegates to another candidate, 552 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: Vermin Supreme, a man who wore a fisherman's boot on 553 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: his head. Tiffany thinks that if McAfee's campaign had been 554 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: run more professionally from the beginning, he had a real 555 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: chance of winning the party nomination. That would have put 556 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: his name on the presidential ballot. They think that he 557 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: could have won. That's why I decided to work with him, 558 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: because you know, give him a mic. That's really all 559 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: he needs. Several people close to McAfee seemed to truly 560 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: believe he could have won the ticket. Here's Judd Weisse, 561 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: McAfee's twenty sixteen running mate. He was a long time 562 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: libertarian who also barely had any campaign experience. We were 563 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: surprisingly close. McAfee and I would have been in the 564 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: middle of that ship with Hillary and Trump. It would 565 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: have been completely insane, that's how close it was. McAfee 566 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: never got that close to Trump and Clinton. But even 567 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: if he had won the nomination, there were questions about 568 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: how seriously he was taking the larger race for the presidency, 569 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: even from the people who believed in him. My belief 570 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: is that it was a publicity start. I don't think 571 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: he was really running to be in the White House, 572 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: although he was saying he was. He was clearly living 573 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: more of a libertarian lifestyle than pretty much any libertarian 574 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: I know. McAfee himself has changed his story a few times. 575 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: Two years after the election, he seems to acknowledge that 576 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 1: the campaign was just about getting attention. I have no 577 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: intention of ever getting elected, no one in the right mind. 578 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I could never get elected president. However, running 579 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: on the libertarian platform, it gave me a forum that 580 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: allowed me to speak and to tell what I think 581 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: the problems in America are. And that's all I asked 582 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: for and that's what I achieved. Later in that interview, 583 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: he starts talking about his new favorite topic, Bitcoin, he'd 584 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: recently learned about it from his libertarian friends. Jadwis says 585 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: he gave McAfee his first bitcoin in early twenty sixteen. 586 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: When McAfee came on the campaign. He didn't even use Uber. 587 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: He was still using like taxis and stuff. He never 588 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: used crypto, so it's not really known, but I gave 589 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 1: McAfee his first crypto. At that time, bitcoin was worth 590 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: less than six hundred dollars. In five years, it would 591 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: surge more than one hundred times and break into the mainstream. 592 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: But cryptocurrency was big early on in the libertarian community, 593 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: which saw it as a way to subvert the power 594 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: of government regulated money. His new found obsession with crypto 595 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: would take over his life once the MGT money dried up, 596 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: and it gets him in trouble with the law again. 597 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: Kyle Sandler speculates that it's even the reason he lost 598 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: his life. That's when he went into the business of 599 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: hucking shipball cryptocurrencies on Twitter, which is where ended up 600 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: getting him an in deep shit That's next time on 601 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: Foundering the John McAfee story. Foundering is hosted by me 602 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: Jamie Tarabay Sean When Is Our executive producer. Brodie Ford 603 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: contributed reporting to this episode. Sure thanks to Young Young 604 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: and Eileena Pain for help with production. Molly Nugent is 605 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: our associate producer. Sharif Yosef is our audio engineer and 606 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: editorial assistant. Mark Million and Vandermay and Molly Shoots are 607 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: our story editors. Be sure to subscribe and if you 608 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: like our show, leave a review. Most importantly, tell your friends, 609 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: see you next time