WEBVTT - An OK Horse

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>As frequent listeners know, we record this on Thursdays generally,

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<v Speaker 2>and apparently we're going to get a biblically bad storm

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<v Speaker 2>this weekend in the New York City area.

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<v Speaker 1>And you are like, yes, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like we had a real storm this past weekend,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was like criminally under hypes. I had no

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<v Speaker 2>idea what was coming.

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<v Speaker 1>I was also surprised by the snow. I used to

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<v Speaker 1>like snow a lot more before I became a suburban

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<v Speaker 1>data and now it's like sho anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Burrow into your heart, try to find that childlike joy

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<v Speaker 2>I try.

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<v Speaker 1>I just pretty deeply buried under for chaos. Sure, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to shovel the snow. I was telling

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<v Speaker 1>you before this, and you were like, you like gave

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<v Speaker 1>me the impression that you had like fifteen minutes of

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<v Speaker 1>a material on the snowstor on this weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Mostly I just wanted to talk about like why was

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<v Speaker 2>no one Like there's been a lot of headlines like

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<v Speaker 2>first big snowstorm of the Mom Donnie era, and it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>are we all just trying to forget that last weekend happened?

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like that was the first big snowstorm.

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<v Speaker 1>Our colleague Joe wasn't that I was tunting about prediction markets.

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<v Speaker 2>For this, Oh, they're popping off. I'm sure this is

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<v Speaker 2>the first time I've ever felt inclined to get involved

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<v Speaker 2>in a prediction market.

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<v Speaker 1>View of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, speaking of folks writing in, we have some

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<v Speaker 2>JP Morgan material to get through. The first is a correction,

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<v Speaker 2>And I mistakenly said in last week's podcast that JP

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan CEO Jamie Diamond did not attend the JP Morgan

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<v Speaker 2>Healthcare Conference which I attended, and I'm sorry I was

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<v Speaker 2>mistaken he was in attendance. You Well, The thing is,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like acutely aware of his presence last year

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<v Speaker 2>because we were recording in a hallway, which I guess

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<v Speaker 2>something I don't want to get myself into more correction territory.

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<v Speaker 2>But he was giving some sort of fireside or keynote

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<v Speaker 2>address and the hallway that we were in was somehow

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<v Speaker 2>on the route, so people were lining up behind us

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<v Speaker 2>and it was like an enormous scene and everyone was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about Jamie Diamond. So again I was keenly aware.

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<v Speaker 2>Didn't have that experience this year, so I assumed that

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't attend, but that was you know what assuming

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<v Speaker 2>does makes you make corrections on podcasts. We have another

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<v Speaker 2>JP do.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we do that, I'm going to say hello and

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to the Money Stuff podcast. Right, You're a weekly

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<v Speaker 1>podcast where we talk about stuff for that of the Money.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Matt Levine and I read the Money Stuff column

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<v Speaker 1>from Bloomberg Opinion.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and

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<v Speaker 2>an anchor for Bloomberg Television.

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<v Speaker 1>What else you got on JP? Morgan?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I was just going to talk about the pub.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the pub.

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<v Speaker 2>Is included in.

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<v Speaker 1>The banter, talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>The banter this week is very long.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the it's the whole episode. It's just the weather

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<v Speaker 1>and the pub. Although they did get sued for d

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<v Speaker 1>banking Donald Trump. Yeah on Thursday, which we should.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we'll get there.

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<v Speaker 1>The pub.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the pub. Yeah. I'm excited going tonight at their office.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been twenty percent of the content of this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>They have a pub at their office. Yes, your brand

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<v Speaker 1>new office. Yeah, you've given us some tights and figures.

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<v Speaker 2>About Yeah, I know so much about this office.

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<v Speaker 1>At that pub, they serve drinks although allegedly not before

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<v Speaker 1>were you a clock? I think we.

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<v Speaker 2>Said I'm on the air until five something after five.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't stress test that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, you will definitely get served at the JP Morgan Pub.

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<v Speaker 2>I hear the guinness is particularly excellent.

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<v Speaker 1>So do you hear that?

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<v Speaker 2>I have heard that you can get screen printed on

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<v Speaker 2>the foam the building itself.

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<v Speaker 1>No, Yeah, like you can get like Latart on your Guinness.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've heard that. I've also I don't know if

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<v Speaker 2>this is true. I'm excited to find out that you

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<v Speaker 2>can get a screen printing of Jamie Diamond's face as

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<v Speaker 2>well on your Guinness. That's what I've heard. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard. I'm gonna I'm going to check this. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you will.

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<v Speaker 1>You will certainly order multiple Guinness. Yeah, yet every available

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<v Speaker 1>image printed on them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, photograph them if I can. If there's photography allowed,

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<v Speaker 2>the photography? Am I even allowed to say that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to the pub tonight? Well here by next week.

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<v Speaker 1>Issue another correction. You did not go to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty excited. I saw it the outside of it.

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<v Speaker 2>When of the pub.

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<v Speaker 1>Inside the office, you saw the facade of the pub

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<v Speaker 1>of the town square in the middle of the Javi Worgon.

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<v Speaker 2>Office, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Excellent.

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<v Speaker 2>So now I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Inside your way past the bell.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's what I had in terms of JP

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<v Speaker 2>Morgan content. But you're right, we should briefly talk about debate.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't lawsuit, but like I gather from like

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<v Speaker 1>what I've read on the Bloomberg summary, I thot that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not long on law.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to recab President Donald Trump issuing JP Morgan and

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<v Speaker 2>Jamie Diamond himself for at least five billion dollars over

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<v Speaker 2>those allegations that it stopped offering him in his business's

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<v Speaker 2>banking services for political reasons, and they did for seven weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>They closed accounts of Trump and his businesses. After January sixth,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty one.

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<v Speaker 1>Banks shot accounts for various reasons. Banks have gotten a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of trouble for banking Jeffrey Epstein. They weren't like

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<v Speaker 1>co conspirators in his crimes. They were providing him banking services.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you provide banking services to people who give

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<v Speaker 1>off red flags of committing crimes, then you get in

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of trouble. Right, and after January sixth, it

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<v Speaker 1>might have been reasonable for jpmore to think we don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to be involved in banking people who have been

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<v Speaker 1>involved in certain sorts of criminal activity, right, But that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of criminal activity is now associated with a certain

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<v Speaker 1>sort of politics, So you can say you were banking me,

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<v Speaker 1>de banking me because of politics rather than because of crime.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's all. It's a little bit interesting when paired

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<v Speaker 2>with what happened to Brian moynihan at Davos. Brian Mornihan

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get past the velvet rep being the CEO of

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<v Speaker 2>Bank of America, the Ft.

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<v Speaker 1>Reported also in Victoria's d Banker.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, the Ft reported that the White House excluded

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<v Speaker 2>Brian moynihan from a Davos reception that included the leaders

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<v Speaker 2>of other banks and financial institutions, and one of the

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<v Speaker 2>reported reasons was potentially de banking. Yeah, the suspicion of

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<v Speaker 2>d banking. Yeah, this is.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I was not a successful investment banker, and via

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<v Speaker 1>some level, well, I'm not a good financial journalist. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>no part of me wants to go to Davas, And

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<v Speaker 1>like if I happened to find myself at Davas, like

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<v Speaker 1>no part of me would want to go to the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump reception. But like that's that's the job, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the job.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Jamie Diamond was there. Jane Frasier was there.

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie Diamond was there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, I guess they had dinner and then

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<v Speaker 2>you know what.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to tell you about my week?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, please, I have a meme cwin. Yes, you didn't

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<v Speaker 2>create it.

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<v Speaker 1>The opposite of haveing memequin. The memequin was foisted upon me.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me take a step back and tell this story.

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<v Speaker 1>So the guy named Steve Yager, who's a software developer,

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<v Speaker 1>launched this thing called gas Town, which is like a

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<v Speaker 1>AI coding vibe cooding situation. It's like open source software

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<v Speaker 1>that he announced and people liked and got a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of attention. And at some point he did that genor

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<v Speaker 1>first and at some point that in the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks, someone launched a meme coin called gas on

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<v Speaker 1>a crypto platform. And the idea is, like, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>meme coin that has the same name as gas Town,

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<v Speaker 1>So if you like think that gastown is a cool project,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you'll buy the meme coin. Like whatever, this classic

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<v Speaker 1>meme coin logic, there's no connection. The person who launched

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't the guy who launched gas Town. It's just like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I wants it on a platform. But the way this

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<v Speaker 1>platform works is that when the token trades, it generates

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<v Speaker 1>what they call royalties like trading piece and the royalties

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some like whatever, like one percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>trade volume or something, and the royalties a crue to someone.

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<v Speaker 1>When you launch the coin, you can designate who gets

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<v Speaker 1>the royalties, and the person who launched this coin said

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<v Speaker 1>the royalties would accrue to the developer who launched gas Town.

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<v Speaker 1>So there is a connection between the coin and the

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<v Speaker 1>open source project. The connection is that the coin generates

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<v Speaker 1>some money for the developer of the project, not because

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<v Speaker 1>he launched the coin, not because he had anything to

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<v Speaker 1>do with it, but just because they were like, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>get some of this money to him.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sort of like a non consensual I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>What people used to call on air drop, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>related to the idea of an air drop in crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>where like someone just gives you a coin and they're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you have this coin, right, and why do they do that? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what happened here is that someone who was involved in

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<v Speaker 1>or at least owned some of the crypto tuging emailed

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<v Speaker 1>the developer and was like, hey, you have all these

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<v Speaker 1>royalties waiting for you. All you have to do is

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<v Speaker 1>like set up an account, connect your Twitter to the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto platform, and then.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you can withdraw buy Solana.

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<v Speaker 1>He had to open a Salona wallet to withdraw the money.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, and he was like, that's weird. And then

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<v Speaker 1>he did it and he was like, oh wow, I

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<v Speaker 1>really got the money.

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<v Speaker 2>I love the excerpt that you included.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, he wrote. He was like, because it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a scam. It sounds like, yeah, just tho it's Alana,

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<v Speaker 1>while I didn't send it, but in fact it was

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<v Speaker 1>real apparently, and he withdrew something like seventy thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 1>of royalties and then here's the important thing. Then he

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<v Speaker 1>blogged about it, and he's got a big platform people

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<v Speaker 1>let gas down, and he bligged about it for apparently

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of reasons. One is that he thought it

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<v Speaker 1>was good. Hecalls it an engine that fuels creation, just

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<v Speaker 1>like the stock market. That is like, because this thing

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<v Speaker 1>is retroactively financing his open source software project. He thinks

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<v Speaker 1>it's cool, right, It's like, this is a way to

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<v Speaker 1>fund projects through like crowd meme something something right, So

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<v Speaker 1>one he thought it was cool and then too. The

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<v Speaker 1>other reason he blied about it is because that will

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<v Speaker 1>get attention to it, which will one make the token

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<v Speaker 1>go up. And I think he ended up buying some

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<v Speaker 1>of the token and to create more royalties for him.

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<v Speaker 1>So he actually wrote in his blog posts, allow me

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<v Speaker 1>to get Richard just by telling you about it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>just like a good line. And so he did that

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<v Speaker 1>and I read about it because I thought that was

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<v Speaker 1>funny in various ways. He's not wrong that it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>a way to finance something something. I don't know that

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<v Speaker 1>it's a sustainable way to like fund a lot of projects,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is like in certain sort of crowdsourceing memei

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<v Speaker 1>areas of the world, it's a way for people will

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<v Speaker 1>get money.

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<v Speaker 2>It almost months we have a Patreon.

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<v Speaker 1>It has some Patreon like elements. But let me tell

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<v Speaker 1>you like one reason that it is not like a Patriot,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that you got tens of thousands of dollars

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<v Speaker 1>out of this, but the market capital of the Clian

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<v Speaker 1>at some point I went from like kind of zero

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<v Speaker 1>to like forty million dollars in back down. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the people who I think I have no proof of

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<v Speaker 1>this is like I just looking at the market dynamics.

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<v Speaker 1>The people I think made a lot of money on this.

0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:25.520
<v Speaker 1>The people who bought the coin cheap emailed him, We're like, hey,

0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.719
<v Speaker 1>blog about this. He blogs about it, the coin goes up,

0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:29.520
<v Speaker 1>and they make a lot of money selling it. Right,

0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:34.520
<v Speaker 1>So it is not just a way to funnel money

0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.480
<v Speaker 1>to creators. It's a way to funnel money to creators

0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.520
<v Speaker 1>while also giving a lot of that money to the

0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.520
<v Speaker 1>people involved in the crypto trading. Sean Geteker wrote a

0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.080
<v Speaker 1>blog post about this with the title crypto grifters are

0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:49.280
<v Speaker 1>recruiting open source AI developers, which is I think closer

0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.200
<v Speaker 1>to my view of it than like this is a

0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.080
<v Speaker 1>way to fuel creation. But in any case, it's interesting.

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 1>They called it meme coin venture capital, and like, you know,

0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.880
<v Speaker 1>as in regular venture capital, you know, the entrepreneurs get

0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:01.920
<v Speaker 1>some of the money and the finance series get some

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.400
<v Speaker 1>of the money. You can quibble over the split of.

0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 2>That, and so how do you factor in about it?

0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and then someone launched one for me, of course,

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.120
<v Speaker 1>so I wrote about that in my column the next day.

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.240
<v Speaker 1>But I'm not going to name the coiner of the platform.

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 1>I do not want people trading the thing to generate

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.720
<v Speaker 1>royalties for me, for reasons on the record. One of

0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 1>them is you heard it here as a matter of

0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 1>journalistic ethics and Bloomberg standards and everything like that, and

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>another is like, I'm not going to log into the thing,

0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 1>like I'm not taking the money. But you know, there's

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:35.040
<v Speaker 1>like supposedly ten thousand dollars in an account for me.

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.040
<v Speaker 2>That is an okay, horse, you can do a lot

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 2>with that.

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.079
<v Speaker 1>I love that your conception of money is.

0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Just thinking, how do you think about what you can

0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 2>do with ten thousand dollars?

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't, because like there's no part of you that

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.680
<v Speaker 1>it's tempted to get and spend this ten thousand dollars.

0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:58.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you'd have to put some work into it,

0:12:58.800 --> 0:12:59.080
<v Speaker 2>but I.

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Don't know that's that much work. But it's like putting

0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.959
<v Speaker 1>like passwords into some.

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, into the horse, I mean to the horse.

0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not going to buy a horse. No, it's

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>not my Well, you're not going to use of ten

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:10.040
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars.

0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:11.200
<v Speaker 2>You're not going to take the money.

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:12.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to take the money.

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised there hasn't been some sort of matt Levine

0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 2>meme coin.

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.040
<v Speaker 1>There probably has been. Yeah, this is like the first

0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.440
<v Speaker 1>one that I know that like attempts to generate profits

0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 1>for me personally.

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, there's something that I was wondering about as

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I was reading your initial.

0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 1>I just want to be really clear, don't buy it.

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Don't buy it.

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:32.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't want you to assume me if you like,

0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>don't buy it and then it goes up. But to

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 1>the extent you were buying it for reasons relating to

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 1>wanting to help me or thinking that I will talk

0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 1>about it more like, don't buy it for those reasons.

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to talk about it more and I'm

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 1>not going to be helped by any aspect of it.

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 2>We'll speak.

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't own it, you don't own it. I'm not

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 1>getting the royalties. No, I didn't launch it. I had

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>no involvement in it. All I've done is talk about it.

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 1>But I have not talked about it in an encouraging way.

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 2>No, no, a negative way. If you will speaking doing

0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:02.080
<v Speaker 2>something that I was wantondering about reading your initial entry.

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 2>When it comes to Gastown, let's say that he was

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 2>receiving no economic benefit from this meme coin and it

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.640
<v Speaker 2>has no actual connection to gas Town. If that happened,

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 2>if you started a thing and then someone launched a

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 2>meme coin that is connected only a name, do you

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 2>have any sort of recourse, Like can you sue them

0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 2>for trying to ride the popularity of your things?

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 1>I think it practically it's often hard to sue them.

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>It's came up a lot in NFTs, like people would

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 1>do NFTs like linked to other people's art. Yeah, you know,

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>because you're like an NT is like an online pointer

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>to an image, right, and you just take someone else's

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>image and then you're selling an NFT of it. People

0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.480
<v Speaker 1>I think have tried last But I think it's hard

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 1>because these are typically somewhat anonymous, these centralized platforms, and

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 1>like they're not Yeah, it's not an obvious person to sue,

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I don't know. I mean, it seems

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>like it could in some circumstances be a copyright violation,

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>but like, yeah, you got to wait into like some

0:14:58.960 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 1>weird corners of the Internet.

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 2>What are you going to do?

0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 1>What are you going to do?

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 2>I just love the phrase moonshot. Do I think it's

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 2>so romantic. Moonshot anyway, pay packages that is what we're

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about specifically, Yeah, so romantic.

0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 1>There's a Boss Journal story about an equilar study of

0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 1>let me try to do the math here. There's some

0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 1>CEOs who got moonshot compensation packages, which they defined as

0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 1>compensation packages that had like a notional value of at

0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 1>least ten thousand horses.

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 2>That's really funny. I really had a thousand horses.

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Or one hundred million dollars. I hope I did the

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>math right. It used to be that the CEOs got

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.000
<v Speaker 1>paid millions of dollars, and now there's a new vogue

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.120
<v Speaker 1>for paying them in a form that sort of looks

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.440
<v Speaker 1>like zero ish dollars plus a bajillion dollars if they

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 1>hit some very aggressive growth in stock price targets over

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 1>like some long period of time. The idea is like, one,

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.400
<v Speaker 1>it's like a long term alignment of incentives, and two

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 1>it is incentives to like do a lot right. So

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>it's not just like steadily grow profits. It's like transform

0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the company or make it huge. And this is like

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>probably wasn't invented at Tesla, but it's very Tesla, right,

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Like Tesla in twenty eighteen gave Elon Musk like a

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>people throw on the number of fifty six billion. I think, like,

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, give him some tens of billions of dollar

0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>package if he grew the company ten x and then

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>he did, and then they gave him the money, and

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 1>then they've talked about a lot and now they've given

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>him another one that's like a trillion dollars of extra

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 1>equity if he goes to eight point five trillion. And

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>other people were like, oh, Elon must did it, it must

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>be cool. And so a lot of companies have done

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:57.920
<v Speaker 1>these packages and what the eqular that he found is

0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 1>that most of them, most of those companies have underperformed

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 1>at the SNP. Yeah, which, as I wrote, makes total

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 1>sense because these are supposed to be like a moonshots,

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 1>right and like most of the time they shouldn't work out,

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.359
<v Speaker 1>and they're getting no reward for matching the S and

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 1>P performance, right, Like that's not what they're there for.

0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>They're there to like ten X to the company, and

0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.920
<v Speaker 1>if they can't do that, then like they'll fall short

0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 1>and there'll be a bad payoff, right, And the idea

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 1>of these moonshots is like most of them won't work out,

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 1>and some of them will work out enormously well, and

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.000
<v Speaker 1>so if you're a diversified shareholder, you'll get, you know,

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the benefit of a few companies.

0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I think the companies went into it with that attitude though,

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.000
<v Speaker 2>like this probably won't work out.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.800
<v Speaker 1>No, but that's fine. Everyone thinks they're going to be

0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the successful moonshot, right, Like, but if you're a shareholder,

0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>if you're a diversefied chaholder, like, that's fine. You have

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.639
<v Speaker 1>like ten CEOs who think they're going to get to

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 1>the moon, and eight of them are diluted and two

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.919
<v Speaker 1>of them are right, and you don't know which is which,

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>but they let them all try. You know, the CEO

0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.640
<v Speaker 1>is all thinking, oh, of course I'll do this right

0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>if some of them are wrong, like, that's good for

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 1>shaholders as long as some of them are right.

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I really liked that framing thinking about it through the

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.399
<v Speaker 2>perspective of a shareholder, and obviously my brain went to

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.400
<v Speaker 2>you could construct a moonshot portfolio of these twenty one

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.159
<v Speaker 2>companies or something that Equilar found did this and a.

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Lot of them have under and people Tesla, Yeah.

0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.720
<v Speaker 2>That's true. It seems like KKR this is working out

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 2>for them? Who else is it working out for Airbnb also,

0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>which is interesting, it's specifically not working out for a

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of people, including trade desk. But it was interesting

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to see that Equilar was specifically looking at twenty twenty

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:37.280
<v Speaker 2>and twenty twenty one packages.

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so excluding Tesla.

0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Excluding Tesla, But it does feel like a moment in time.

0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, maybe there have been more in the year since,

0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 2>but it feels like twenty twenty, twenty twenty one you

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 2>did see.

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.560
<v Speaker 1>A lot of these that was apparently there were more

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.200
<v Speaker 1>than than before or since. I think some of it

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.119
<v Speaker 1>was the Tesla package was in twenty eighteen, but I

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 1>think you hit the targets in like twenty twenty one, yeah,

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>or twenty and so there was a lot of like,

0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.399
<v Speaker 1>oh wow, it works. From the perspective of a CEO,

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like, oh wow, I could make sixty billion dollars.

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>And from the perspective of a board, it's like, oh,

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 1>this incentivization works and gets CEOs to transform companies. Yeah,

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.120
<v Speaker 1>it's a little weird to be a board and be like, well,

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>our guy could be Elon Musk too, but it's you know,

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 1>someone's got to be Yeah, Elon Musk two point zero.

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, it'll be interesting to see, like what the lag

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.400
<v Speaker 2>effect of his most recent pay package is, like whether

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:25.199
<v Speaker 2>in I.

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Don't think anyone else is going to get a jillion

0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:27.720
<v Speaker 1>dollar pay package.

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.359
<v Speaker 2>For a while. No, you don't think so, who knows?

0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Man? And the other thing I'd say is, like I've

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.199
<v Speaker 1>written this about, you know, his earlier pay package, and

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 1>his trillion dollar pay package is like the classic Moonshot

0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.520
<v Speaker 1>pay package is you're an early stage startup founder, right,

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and your pay is like Ramen and thirty percent of

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.479
<v Speaker 1>the equity of a company that is now worth you know,

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 1>nothing ish and it could be worth a trillion dollars, right,

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Like that's the Moonshot pay package. That's the package where

0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.960
<v Speaker 1>in theory, you know, every startup CEO is is trying

0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.120
<v Speaker 1>to create something out of nothing and if they fail,

0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.280
<v Speaker 1>they get roughly nothing, and if they succeed, they get

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Mark Zuckerberg level wealth. And that's like a normal pay package.

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.719
<v Speaker 1>And what this is doing is translating that to giant

0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.200
<v Speaker 1>public companies. And it shouldn't work that well, right, Tesla's

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 1>a car company and it makes me correctly and it

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.239
<v Speaker 1>can sell cars, and like now Elin must incentives are

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 1>to transform it utterly to making an eight point five

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.239
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollar company. The theory there has to be like,

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 1>either he will succeed and it will we'll have a

0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.440
<v Speaker 1>human odor robot in every home and it will be

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 1>worth eight point five trillion dollars and he'll get paid,

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.159
<v Speaker 1>or he'll fail and he won't get paid and it

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.120
<v Speaker 1>won't like sell cars anymore. I don't know, like you're

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of making these like very bold bets, and that

0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.160
<v Speaker 1>makes sense when you're a startup, and maybe makes less

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>sense for a large public company, but maybe it makes

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>more sense. On don't know, Maybe it's what the shralders want.

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Can you walk me through the psychology of the CEOs

0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 2>who canceled their Moonshot? Oh? Like the psychology you're just like,

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to do this.

0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 1>This is all stock options, right. It works is like

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 1>you're optimistic. The board is like, we're gonna pay you

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of stock options that will be worth a

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>lot of the thought goes up and be worth nothing

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 1>if the stock goes down, and you're like, great, the

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 1>stock will go up. And then the stock goes down

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.159
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, well, but I'm a nice guy. Like

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I come in every day, I work hard, Like why

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 1>am I not getting paid? And the board is like,

0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>you're right, and they cancel your stock options and give

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 1>you a new stock options so you still get paid.

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.640
<v Speaker 1>And like the Moonshot stuff is like that too, right.

0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 1>It's like at the beginning of the Moonshot package, it's

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 1>like you'll get nothing unless you're ten x the company,

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 1>which case we get a bajillion dollars, right, and then

0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:30.439
<v Speaker 1>after two years you're like, well, I'm not gonna ten

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 1>next to the company, but like, ye, I'm working hard

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 1>and then I get fine, take some money. That's the psychology.

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.560
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty reasonable. Yeah, it's on the theoretical level, like

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 1>this sort of like all or nothing that creates the

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 1>right incentives to like, you know, they're working hard.

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 3>They're fine.

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.199
<v Speaker 2>What an interesting article that landed on Monday, so I

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't fully appreciate it until Tuesday because Monday was a holiday.

0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 1>The new or Executy Change and or related entities are

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 1>building a twenty four ish hour, seven ish day trading

0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:17.359
<v Speaker 1>idea based on blockchain.

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, tokenized stocks and ETFs, and you can train them

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.680
<v Speaker 2>walk out, you can train them around the clock. ETFs

0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 2>they're building it, that is.

0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 1>They're thinking about it. It's in the works.

0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I feel like we've been talking about the concept

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:34.320
<v Speaker 2>of twenty four to seven trading for a while.

0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and has the usual problems lighter liquidity if you

0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 1>are market makers at two am. What I was interesting

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 1>about this story was that it's and I'd never really

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.040
<v Speaker 1>like closely thought about this, but it's combined with blockchain.

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:49.919
<v Speaker 1>Blockchain blockchain tokenizing stocks. And there is kind of a

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.520
<v Speaker 1>reason for that, which is that traditionally trade and settlement

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:58.560
<v Speaker 1>are separated in a world of business hours and sort

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.399
<v Speaker 1>of serious institutional trader, like you do a trade between

0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 1>nine thirty and four on a Monday, and then you know,

0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 1>you get the cash and you deliver the shares sometime

0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.679
<v Speaker 1>on Tuesday, and like it's all sort of like civilized,

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 1>but in a world of like catering to retail traders

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 1>who want to trade twenty four seven, like settlement is

0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 1>an obstacle there, Like it would be weird to do

0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.399
<v Speaker 1>a trade at midnight on Friday and then I have

0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:25.919
<v Speaker 1>three days of like the money hasn't landed in your

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:29.200
<v Speaker 1>account yet. It's not like the experience that you're expecting

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.000
<v Speaker 1>when you're trading twenty four to seven, right, and so

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.600
<v Speaker 1>the bloom work. Sorry, right, Catherine already quotes Michael Blackground

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 1>at and I say saying, we think it aligns with

0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the retail investors emerging desire to be able to trade

0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.399
<v Speaker 1>something at five oh four pm on a Saturday and

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.240
<v Speaker 1>then use that money to buy something else at five

0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 1>oh five pm on a Saturday.

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:45.720
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:47.919
<v Speaker 1>You can't use the money if you just like do

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 1>a trade and then it doesn't settle. Right. You're combining

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.359
<v Speaker 1>the twenty four seven trading with real time settlement, and

0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:56.159
<v Speaker 1>the way to do that these days is by token

0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 1>eyes and talking about the blockchain. It's not the only

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 1>way to do real time settlement, but that's the way

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:01.280
<v Speaker 1>everyone talks about it now.

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also it's a language that I feel like

0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>the people who care about this know the idea. Yeah,

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:12.639
<v Speaker 2>blockchain tokenization. We actually spoke to Michael Blogrund on UTFIQ,

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 2>which is a television show in addition to being my

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:18.719
<v Speaker 2>newsletter I ever heard, and he was talking about like,

0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:22.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're in conversations with a lot of crypto

0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:24.800
<v Speaker 2>native firms who are really excited about this, but also

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.680
<v Speaker 2>the largest some of the largest etf issuers out there,

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's all about like getting their products in the

0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:34.439
<v Speaker 2>digital wallets of the next generation investors. So that's who

0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 2>they're going after, and that's a language that they know

0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:37.600
<v Speaker 2>it all.

0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, language I don't know, as we've already established.

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>So we'll see. I mean they're in talks with the SEC.

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:46.400
<v Speaker 2>It's not a Johne deal.

0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>It's a pretty good time to be in. Talked about

0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 1>blockchaining and tokenized something something.

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So were you saying that you don't think like

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.240
<v Speaker 2>tokenization is inevitable or twenty four to seven trading.

0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't think the tokenization is an absolute requirement

0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:02.560
<v Speaker 1>for real time settlement, but it's how it's going to happen, right, Yeah,

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:03.679
<v Speaker 1>it's gonna happen.

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Because I was going to say, like twenty four to

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 2>seven trading feels inevitable. Yes, it's coming.

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, although it's always like twenty three and a half,

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 1>you know. Yeah, you need like time to reset the

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:14.399
<v Speaker 1>computers up.

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>I did like how you framed in your column that

0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to imagine another app, Like if I was

0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 2>like a huge fan of an app on my phone

0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 2>and then it stopped working at four pm on Friday,

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.760
<v Speaker 2>and I couldn't use it all weekend. It would kind

0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of be like what am I doing?

0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Like I come from a world where like, yes, like

0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 1>you go home at four o'clock on Friday, you don't

0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:37.000
<v Speaker 1>trade stocks for a while. But like that's not like

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:39.119
<v Speaker 1>an app native living on your phone.

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you grew up on the internet and with these apps.

0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Then that doesn't really make sense.

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Trade sucks all.

0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 2>The time it's happening.

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 1>Like one possibility is you'll have very limited liquidity and

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.400
<v Speaker 1>lots of craziness overnight. But another possibility is like, eh,

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 1>like everyone just put their traders on two shifts and

0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:58.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, like it's mostly computers. Anyways, you need someone

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:00.960
<v Speaker 1>on the night shift super rise the computer and like

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:02.359
<v Speaker 1>maybe it's all fun, Maybe it's fine.

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 2>I think it would be really fun to be on

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.120
<v Speaker 2>the night shift, just.

0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Like the one person with a bank of computers that

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:10.600
<v Speaker 1>are like trading against retail dj ns all night long.

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I picture a cozy dark room, the warm glow of

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.159
<v Speaker 2>your computer screen, right, siff in your tea, got.

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Myls aren't going down too much?

0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.120
<v Speaker 2>My flannel pajama bottoms on. Yeah that sounds good.

0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't think you know, I think that job will

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:27.760
<v Speaker 1>be like you're wearing a suit and you're in Tokyo.

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 1>But it's possible.

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's not very romantic. Yeah, all right. I

0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 2>feel like we covered a lot of grounds, a lot

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:40.359
<v Speaker 2>of good good luck, good luck in the snow.

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Every book at the pub.

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, thank you.

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>And that was the Money Stuff Podcast.

0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:53.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm Matt Levine and I'm Katie Greifeld.

0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 1>You can find my work by subscribing to the Money

0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Stuff newsletter on Bloomberg.

0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Dot com, and you can find me on Bloomberg every

0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 2>day on the close between three and five pm Eastern.

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:06.520
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0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 1>The Money Stuff Podcast is produced by Anam Aserakis, Moses

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Onam and Alexis HoTT Our.

0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Theme music was composed by Blake Maples.

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Amy Keen is our executive producer. Thanks for listening to

0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:33.280
<v Speaker 1>The Money Stuff Podcast. We'll be back next week with

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:34.080
<v Speaker 1>more stuff.