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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy. My name is kat I

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Speaker 1: am the host. And if you're new or newer and

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Speaker 1: you don't know what couch Talks is, it is the

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Speaker 1: special bonus episode of You Need Therapy podcast where I

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Speaker 1: answer questions that you guys send to me and you

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Speaker 1: can send those to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. My name is spelled with the y Katherine

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Speaker 1: k r y N. I know it's not the normal

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Speaker 1: way people spell Katherine, And you know what, it actually

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Speaker 1: did affect me growing up because I could never get

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Speaker 1: the like keychains or those necklaces of like the little

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Speaker 1: piece of rice with your name written on it, or

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Speaker 1: any of those things that were personalized on like field

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Speaker 1: trips or gas stations, the aquarium, the zoo, any place

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Speaker 1: like that, because they always spelt my name kt an e.

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Speaker 1: And at one point I tried to change my name

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Speaker 1: to Katie but it didn't stick. So I just never

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Speaker 1: got any of those things. Anyway, if you've been selling

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Speaker 1: my name, kat Ie, I haven't been getting your emails.

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Speaker 1: So it's Catherine with a why. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: haven't shared that with you guys yet, so I guess

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Speaker 1: it just felt like the appropriate time, still working through

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Speaker 1: that experience as a child. Anyway, before we get into

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Speaker 1: today's conversation, I want to give the little disclaimer that

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Speaker 1: I do it on every episode that although I'm a therapist,

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Speaker 1: the podcast is you need therapy, this does not serve

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Speaker 1: a replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. Now,

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Speaker 1: I know, I just explained to couch Chalks and I said,

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Speaker 1: we're going to answer a question that somebody sent in. However,

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Speaker 1: today's a special day because it is the weekend or

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Speaker 1: the week after the weekend of Barbenheimer, which was the

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Speaker 1: release weekend of the Barbie movie and Oppenheimer movie. I

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Speaker 1: had no intention of seeing either of them, and I

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Speaker 1: saw both of them this weekend. I saw Oppenheimer on

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Speaker 1: Friday night with a bunch of friends, and I saw

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Speaker 1: Barbie the next day on a whim. We randomly bought

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Speaker 1: tickets and went with a friend, and both of the

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Speaker 1: movies were, in my opinion, awesome. Oppenheimer was very confusing

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Speaker 1: and was so fast. I think that I want to

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Speaker 1: see it again because I think a lot of it

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Speaker 1: would make a lot more sense now that I kind

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Speaker 1: of know what's going on Barbie, I want to see

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Speaker 1: it again, just because it was so good and I

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Speaker 1: laughed so hard, and to be honest, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I went on a whim. I didn't really care much

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Speaker 1: about seeing it, and a friend randomly was like, we

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Speaker 1: should go see the Barbie movie. So I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what I was walking into with the Barbie movie.

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Speaker 1: I actually did a little bit research before Oppenheimer, but

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Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was walking into. I

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Speaker 1: obviously knew know what Barbie is, but I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what kind of movie was supposed to be, what it

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be about. And maybe that's why I

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Speaker 1: didn't really have any interest in going to see it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm so glad I did, and it was a

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Speaker 1: movie that was meant to be, from my experience, both

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Speaker 1: challenging and thought provoking and entertaining, which I feel people

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Speaker 1: have missed a little bit. And I personally, like I said,

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Speaker 1: thought the movie was hilarious, and often it was that,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is so funny. I'm laughing because

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Speaker 1: it's true humor, and then deep down you're going like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, it's true, like when Barbie responds to

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Speaker 1: an award she was getting by saying, I worked hard,

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Speaker 1: so I deserve this, and everybody laughs because well, women

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Speaker 1: aren't supposed to say that, and the usual response to

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Speaker 1: award is oh, my gosh, I can't believe it, Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many other more deserving people

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Speaker 1: out there. I couldn't possibly but it was just no,

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Speaker 1: I worked hard and I deserve this, And I thought

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Speaker 1: that was very I mean, it was funny. It was

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Speaker 1: eye opening because I was like, oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine ever saying that. And I left this movie

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Speaker 1: with a lot of thoughts. I had good thoughts. I

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Speaker 1: had some really empowered thoughts, thoughts that I knew we're

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Speaker 1: going to bring up some different more thoughts. And out

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Speaker 1: of all of those thoughts, none of them were centered

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Speaker 1: in my experience around fearing. I left feeling very excited

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Speaker 1: to have conversations about it and validated. That's how I left. Now,

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Speaker 1: I know my experience is different from many others. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that impact how I perceive and

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Speaker 1: take in and digest content. One of those I think

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Speaker 1: that makes a big difference in the Barbie movie is

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Speaker 1: being a woman, and very quickly, I learned after watching

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Speaker 1: this movie that a lot of people did not have

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Speaker 1: the same experience as me. People were deeply offended by

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Speaker 1: the movie, deeply frightened by the movie, like very frightened,

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Speaker 1: like stay away, keep your kids away, this is going

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Speaker 1: to ruin your salvation, this is going to ruin our

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Speaker 1: country kind of stuff, like very extreme. Now again, I've

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Speaker 1: my experience was. I felt empowered, validated, grateful for this

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Speaker 1: movie and also challeng at the same time, which I

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Speaker 1: think is a very cool place to be. And I

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Speaker 1: think that goes back to me saying this movie was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be entertaining and thought provoking. That's a very

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Speaker 1: cool place to be. I don't feel like as a

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Speaker 1: person I have everything figured out, so I'm very open,

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Speaker 1: even though it can be uncomfortable at times, to get

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Speaker 1: feedback about myself, my beliefs, what I think, how I act,

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Speaker 1: and this movie kind of hit on some things that

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Speaker 1: maybe I need to do some more digging around on,

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Speaker 1: or work on, or pay attention to more. Now, for

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Speaker 1: the record, I'm totally fine with anybody disagreeing with how

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Speaker 1: I interpreted the movie because we're all different humans, so

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Speaker 1: we're going to have different experiences. Anyone's allowed to like it,

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Speaker 1: anyone's allowed to not like it. It just becomes very

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Speaker 1: disheartening when the responses to something that hits on a

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Speaker 1: nerve can be so I want to say, like mean

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Speaker 1: spirited and hateful and just unkind. We cannot like something

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Speaker 1: and also not have to rip it to shreds. I

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Speaker 1: can not like a meal I get at a restaurant

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Speaker 1: and not have to go to yelp and give them

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Speaker 1: a zero star review and tell everybody not to ever

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Speaker 1: go there because it's the worst place in the world.

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Speaker 1: I can just like not go back. The thing about

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Speaker 1: this movie that was cool is that it may makes

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Speaker 1: you think. For a lot of people, including myself, thinking

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Speaker 1: can be scary because what if this changes things? What

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Speaker 1: if the world changes? Well in the world of Barbie.

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Speaker 1: In the Barbie movie, they actually hit on that and

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Speaker 1: they said, that's one of the quotes that people are

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Speaker 1: really grabbing onto. Is actually I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: is the Diruct quote, but there was something along the

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Speaker 1: lines of like, that's life, Like it's constantly changing. If

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Speaker 1: you're living life, you're constantly changing, and life is in

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Speaker 1: the world is constantly changing. And the movie had a

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Speaker 1: lot of messages, but the main thing that I felt,

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Speaker 1: other than that empowered sense of validation, the main thing

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Speaker 1: I left feeling was a sense of relief. And I

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Speaker 1: think the big thing that people are paying attention to

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Speaker 1: and focusing on is the patriarchy and how they talked

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Speaker 1: about that and how men are portrayed in the movie.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that is a huge part, and there could

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Speaker 1: be a lot of discussion on this, and there is

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Speaker 1: out there. And what felt more important to me than

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Speaker 1: to dissect all of that is the amount I actually

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Speaker 1: felt like I was understood and I was not alone,

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Speaker 1: and being that understood, there's a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: that theater that you could tell by some of the

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Speaker 1: size of relief or the certain kinds of laughter. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't just me that feels this pressure that was kind

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Speaker 1: of released in some of the scenes of this movie.

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Speaker 1: I think it was the acknowledgment of a lot of

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Speaker 1: the pressure that I, as a woman in this world, feels.

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Speaker 1: It was the acknowledgment of that pressure that for a

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Speaker 1: small moment kind of released some of the pressure. And

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Speaker 1: I was not expecting to leave this movie feeling that

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Speaker 1: because the Barbie Doll has been a part of of

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Speaker 1: our culture that has reinforced some really challenging expectations and

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Speaker 1: unhealthy beauty standards to live up to. So I did

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Speaker 1: not feel like that was what this movie was going

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Speaker 1: to bring me. I was pleasantly surprised. And I saw

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Speaker 1: Margo Robbie say in an interview that Barbie went to

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Speaker 1: the moon like the Barbie Doll went to the moon

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Speaker 1: before women were allowed to have credit cards, And so

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Speaker 1: this is saying and giving an example of how Barbie

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Speaker 1: was this example that women could be what they want

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Speaker 1: to be. They could be anything, which is amazing. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, this has gotten a little out of

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Speaker 1: hand because we take that so often to mean that

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Speaker 1: women have to be everything, because they can be anything.

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Speaker 1: We can't choose one thing, because we can be all

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Speaker 1: of these things. So then we have to be all

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Speaker 1: these things. And that's because we should be grateful that

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Speaker 1: we can be all these things, and we have to

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Speaker 1: take advantage the ability to do that, because we haven't

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Speaker 1: always had that ability. And America Fararra's character really hit

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Speaker 1: the nail on the head. If you've seen the movie,

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Speaker 1: you know exactly what I'm talking about with her monologue

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Speaker 1: that was near the end, and if you haven't seen it,

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend going googling that you can find it

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Speaker 1: on the internet right now. I also recommend seeing the movie.

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Speaker 1: But in it, part of what she said this is

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Speaker 1: just a little chopped up pieces of it. Part of

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Speaker 1: what she said, this is just a little chopped up

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Speaker 1: pieces of it. It's not the whole thing. But she said,

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Speaker 1: it's literally impossible to be a woman. We have to

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Speaker 1: be extraordinary, but somehow we always are doing it wrong.

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Speaker 1: Not only are you doing everything wrong, but also everything

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Speaker 1: is your fault. And then she went on later to say,

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Speaker 1: I'm so tired of watching myself and every single other

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Speaker 1: woman tie herself in knots so people will like us,

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Speaker 1: which I felt so hard. Later when Ken never apologized

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Speaker 1: to Barbie, he literally stole her house, and Barbie was

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Speaker 1: one to apologize to Ken for leading him on, which sure,

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Speaker 1: maybe she needed to do that, she needed to own

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Speaker 1: up to that, And I think that's a really important

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Speaker 1: part of this movie to remember, is that Barbie took

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Speaker 1: accountability for some of the things that she did were

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Speaker 1: that were not cool, like she should have apologized. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't very kind to Ken, and did kind of take

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Speaker 1: advantage of him, and there was acknowledgment of that. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that is so powerful because what it's

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Speaker 1: saying is this isn't a black and white thing. We

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Speaker 1: can say, hey, what I did isn't cool, and what

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Speaker 1: we're doing right now isn't working, So I can take

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Speaker 1: responsibility and it's not on my fault, and we can

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Speaker 1: work together to find something that actually works for more

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Speaker 1: of us. And I think what I have been seeing

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Speaker 1: is that the movie evoked a lot of discomfort for

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Speaker 1: how men were portrayed in Barbie Land, which I feel

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Speaker 1: so funny talking about Bobby Land Ken Barbie, but I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people did not like that Ken

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Speaker 1: had no power, he was overlooked and kind of seeing

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Speaker 1: his dumb and shallow at times. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: my interpretation. I don't know that anyone was trying to

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Speaker 1: say that men shouldn't have power and that they are dumb.

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Speaker 1: It was more so a glimpse of what women have

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Speaker 1: been fighting for all of their lives, and the movie

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Speaker 1: was not really about men at all. It's about women

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Speaker 1: and showcasing the reality of what this world would look

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Speaker 1: like if the roles were reversed, and yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: exaggerated at times, and that's where this the Sometimes you

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Speaker 1: have to do that to drive a point, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a movie. Part of it was entertaining,

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Speaker 1: but again, this really was showcasing the reality of what

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Speaker 1: it would look like if roles were reversed, and what

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Speaker 1: we have grown to just think is normal. It's like

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Speaker 1: a custom for this kind of universe to just being

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Speaker 1: normal here. And really, if we flip the script, wait,

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Speaker 1: this isn't cool, and so I want to I wanted

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Speaker 1: to just touch on that because this thing that is

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Speaker 1: so cool, it's this ability to to really show people

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Speaker 1: the experience that women have, really show them what it

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Speaker 1: looks like. None of that is for the purpose, in

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Speaker 1: my experience, of shaming men or making men feel worthless

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Speaker 1: or bad. It's just a picture that can easily be seen.

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Speaker 1: Oh this makes sense. And you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: most interesting things and one of the things that hit

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Speaker 1: me the most in this movie is after Barbie went

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Speaker 1: and experienced the real world, she said, everyone hates women.

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Speaker 1: Men hate women, women hate women. It's the one thing

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Speaker 1: that everybody can agree on. And this movie is just

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Speaker 1: a glaring highlight of the impossible place women are in.

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Speaker 1: They put themselves in it, and people put them in

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Speaker 1: that position. We're just in this very difficult position, and

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Speaker 1: we have our own internal and conscious bias that pit

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Speaker 1: us against each other. Even while we're working to untie

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Speaker 1: ourselves of past versions of women and what women were

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Speaker 1: seen as and how women were treated, we still end

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Speaker 1: up doing that a little to ourselves. This was important

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Speaker 1: to me because in the discussion of equality, in the

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Speaker 1: discussion of gender bias and any of that, in those discussions,

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Speaker 1: we generally tend to call one person to the table

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Speaker 1: and we kind of just like put blame on them,

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Speaker 1: and it's also their job to change so then we

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Speaker 1: can be better or we can have a better life.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of canceling. It's like one person's in

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Speaker 1: trouble and like they didn't learn those behaviors or thoughts

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Speaker 1: or beliefs from anybody else. We've just gotten in this

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Speaker 1: routine of pitting one person against another group of people,

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Speaker 1: which makes sense, But I think that what might be

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Speaker 1: more helpful, and what I heard in a lot of

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Speaker 1: this movie, again with my own lens of viewing it,

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Speaker 1: is that we have to call everyone to the table.

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Speaker 1: Instead of pointing the blame on one person. I guess

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Speaker 1: people generally don't like being called to the table. We

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Speaker 1: get defensive really quick. I do it as well. But

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Speaker 1: rarely is it one person's fault and rarely can it

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Speaker 1: be one person's responsibility to shift things alone. And with

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Speaker 1: the fault it goes back to like, people are influenced,

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Speaker 1: and so we also have to look at what are

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Speaker 1: they being influenced by. We learn our beliefs, we learn

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Speaker 1: about the world. We learn about everything by our experiences,

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Speaker 1: by seeing things, by hearing things. We don't have any

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Speaker 1: original thoughts. All of our thoughts from come from things

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Speaker 1: that we've seen, her, done, experienced. And everyone fuels attacked

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Speaker 1: all the time and our current climate, But are we

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Speaker 1: attacking people all the time or are we trying to

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Speaker 1: create conversations and really don't know how? And maybe we

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Speaker 1: are attacking people all the time. I also don't know

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Speaker 1: if we just haven't been taught how to have conversations

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Speaker 1: and we haven't been taught how to access what we're

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Speaker 1: really having conversations about. And maybe that's a comversation worth

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Speaker 1: having before we talk about anything else. Is how do

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Speaker 1: we access what the conversation is really about how do

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Speaker 1: we bring that to the forefront. And I wrote a

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Speaker 1: post on Instagram on Monday about learning how to love

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Speaker 1: people well? And that's been something that I've really been

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Speaker 1: digging into in my own personal life. Learning how to

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Speaker 1: love people well that I don't agree with, that scare me,

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Speaker 1: that have hurt me, like people that I don't have

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Speaker 1: an issue with at all, how do I love them well?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean people I agree with, in people

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Speaker 1: I don't agree with. And what I've come to is

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Speaker 1: that idea that loving people well is less about teaching

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Speaker 1: them what is right and teaching them what is wrong,

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Speaker 1: and it's more about learning how to sit with my

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Speaker 1: own discomfort around differences that I'm experiencing. And I really

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Speaker 1: don't think most of us are good at doing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm often not very good at doing this. I'm learning

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Speaker 1: a lot about my own ability to regulate different people's

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Speaker 1: opinions and thought processes. It's hard. And so I could

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Speaker 1: talk about the Barbie movie all day, I really could.

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Speaker 1: I could make a podcast that's seven hours long about

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Speaker 1: the Barbie Movie. I could interview so many people about

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff that comes up in it. But

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Speaker 1: I want to leave you guys with this more than

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Speaker 1: anything else is I want you to form your own

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Speaker 1: opinions about this movie or don't. I'm very aware that

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Speaker 1: many people won't even watch. I don't know that you'd

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Speaker 1: be listening to this podcast, but I'm very aware that

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Speaker 1: everybody's going to watch this movie. But I want you

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Speaker 1: to form your own opinions. You don't have to interpret

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Speaker 1: things the way I do. Who's to say I have

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Speaker 1: the best brain out there, you know. But while you

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Speaker 1: hold your own opinions, I want to challenge you to

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Speaker 1: allow others to have theirs without taking it personally. And

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Speaker 1: instead of starting to debate about who is right and

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Speaker 1: who is wrong, if we started conversations about how you

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Speaker 1: felt watching this movie, if we talked about our feelings,

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Speaker 1: I really think this discourse would be very different. And

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Speaker 1: if we think about it, you know, going back to

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Speaker 1: how a lot of people are focusing on the patriarchy

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Speaker 1: and how there's reverse sexism in this movie, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the critiques are or around kind of how

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Speaker 1: that has been displayed. But if the people that are

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Speaker 1: looking at that or watching that, or maybe they haven't

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Speaker 1: been watching it, and that's one of the problems instead

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Speaker 1: of just talking about the subject matter, What if they

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Speaker 1: talked about what it felt like, what they felt when

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Speaker 1: they saw that. Because if we could express our fear

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Speaker 1: or our anger or our joy, then I think we'd

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Speaker 1: be having a different conversation than we're having now, and

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Speaker 1: we'd be having probably a fruitful conversation and will while

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Speaker 1: we lead to a much cooler place, and a much

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Speaker 1: more exciting place, and a much more just a place

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Speaker 1: where things can actually get done, Because I just feel

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Speaker 1: like when stuff like this comes out and it's polarizing,

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Speaker 1: we just start yelling at each other in sev talking about,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I felt so empowered when I watched that,

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Speaker 1: I felt so understood, I felt a sense of relief,

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Speaker 1: And then this other person over here could say I

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Speaker 1: felt judged and I felt hurt and I felt scared.

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Speaker 1: If we talked about those things, then we actually are

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Speaker 1: going to start to listen to each other, because that's

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Speaker 1: what's driving a lot of our feelings. You know, I

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Speaker 1: love feelings. That's why they're so important to be able

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Speaker 1: to access and allow ourselves to access and talk about,

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Speaker 1: because our feelings are driving forces towards our behaviors. And

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Speaker 1: if I don't allow myself to access my feelings, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to let my driving, my behaviors be driven by

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Speaker 1: my attempt to avoid those feelings. But our feelings are

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Speaker 1: often things at our leading us to what we need,

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Speaker 1: so then we never even get to what we need.

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Speaker 1: And I know a lot of you have heard me

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Speaker 1: talk about that before, but I just think it's important

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Speaker 1: because it's so like that is tied into all I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about the Barbie movie and it comes back to this.

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Speaker 1: It all, it's very often coming back to this, And

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Speaker 1: so again I could talk about so many of these

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Speaker 1: scenes and how awesome they were from my perspective, and

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Speaker 1: how I could say all these people that are saying X,

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Speaker 1: Y Z are wrong and they're hearing it wrong, And

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Speaker 1: you know what, I think when it comes down to

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Speaker 1: they're seeing it differently, they're interpreting it differently, they're having

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Speaker 1: a different experience, and could we have a conversation about

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Speaker 1: that different experience versus saying you have to watch this

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Speaker 1: and you have to like this and you have to

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Speaker 1: understand why this is good, or don't watch this. It's

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Speaker 1: going to send you to hell and the Devil's going

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Speaker 1: to take over your soul and it's going to ruin

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Speaker 1: our country. What There's got to be some middle ground there.

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Speaker 1: So if you've seen the movie, let me know, like

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Speaker 1: share your opinions. What did it bring up with you

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Speaker 1: for you? I'd love to hear that and we could

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Speaker 1: have conversations about that and open up a space to

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Speaker 1: create change and help people through that versus yelling on

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Speaker 1: each other. I don't know. It's just never been helpful

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Speaker 1: long term. So that is going to do it today.

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Speaker 1: I know couch Talks was different. I'll get back to

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Speaker 1: the questions next week. If you have any questions, feel

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Speaker 1: free to send them. You can send them Katherine with

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Speaker 1: a y at Yountherapy podcast dot com. If you have

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Speaker 1: questions about specifically the Barbie moovie, I'd love to get

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Speaker 1: them feedback. We can talk about this as a group

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Speaker 1: on another episode. If you would like to follow us

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Speaker 1: at You Need Therapy Podcasts and at cat dot Defoda

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Speaker 1: on Instagram, and then you can also follow at Three

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Speaker 1: Quords Therapy on Instagram as well. That is my therapy

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Speaker 1: practice that is in Nashville. Until I talk to you

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Speaker 1: guys on Monday, I hope you guys have the day

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Speaker 1: the week, all of the moments that you need to have,

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Speaker 1: and that is all I have for you for today. Bye.