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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness, I believe I.

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Speaker 2: Got a phone call from someone in the room saying

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Speaker 2: they heard gunshots.

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Speaker 3: Boom, small caliber gun.

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Speaker 4: They want a big caliber boom.

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Speaker 5: About the second time myself been with them, that was

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Speaker 5: a gun.

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Speaker 3: When you got a definite share of killed over here.

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Speaker 3: It's high profile and people are expecting things out here.

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Speaker 6: Tavarra Junica. I remember he was pushing a Drinka's four

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Speaker 6: in the wheelchair.

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Speaker 1: They came together.

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Speaker 2: I had saw too far.

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Speaker 1: Was pushing Adrika's in the club.

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Speaker 7: Me and one of my girlfriends they had named Katanya,

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Speaker 7: Me and hr and two two guys are supposed to hook.

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Speaker 8: Up that night.

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Speaker 7: One is twenty one.

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Speaker 8: They called him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 3: Not only do you want somebody in custody? The captain

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Speaker 3: is telling in the liew townt we need to get

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Speaker 3: this done. The sheriff is telling the captain, we need

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Speaker 3: to get this done.

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Speaker 9: I think he taking hand.

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Speaker 8: How was there.

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Speaker 3: And we went there?

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Speaker 10: So what she's saying?

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Speaker 3: She was there and I was there.

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Speaker 8: That's a life, that's a lot. That's a shame.

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Speaker 1: When police come looking for ar dregas Ford, his mom

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Speaker 1: calls Richard Jeffy, who had helped them in the past.

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Speaker 11: Ar Dregas was in a wheelchair, as you know, and

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Speaker 11: his mother brought him over to the lions Den to

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Speaker 11: the Sheriff's department.

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Speaker 1: Jeffy's a trial lawyer, and he looks like one, but

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Speaker 1: not in a slick way. He's slender in a rumpled

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Speaker 1: suit with gray hair and glasses. The day Ardregas went

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Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's office for questioning. Jaffy is just beginning

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Speaker 1: a trial in a different case, but before he goes

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Speaker 1: to court that day, he gets a phone call from

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office.

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Speaker 11: I was called by a Deputy Blanton and he said,

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Speaker 11: I heard that you were representing Ardregas Ford and I went, yes,

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Speaker 11: I was just contacted by the family, but I don't

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Speaker 11: know anything about the case. And he said, well, look,

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Speaker 11: he's just a witness. I mean, he just knows stuff.

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Speaker 11: And I knew Deputy Blanton, and I believed if he

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Speaker 11: had information involving a police shooting, I wanted to help,

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Speaker 11: and Ardregus did too, and against my best judgment, I

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Speaker 11: allowed Ardragas to be interviewed by and several other Jefferson

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Speaker 11: County detectives.

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Speaker 1: So our Dregus is questioned alone while his attorney, Jaffe,

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Speaker 1: heads to the courthouse.

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Speaker 11: Perhaps around four thirty or five when we broke, I

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Speaker 11: found out that Ardregis was still there, so he'd been

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Speaker 11: there all day, like maybe nine hours, and I was

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Speaker 11: extremely distraught, so I hurried over there. It was just

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Speaker 11: across the street, and when I got into the very

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Speaker 11: large room, it was buzzing with detectives and police officers,

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Speaker 11: and you could feel the tension was It was enormous

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Speaker 11: amount of tension.

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Speaker 1: There in the crowd of police officers and detectives. Jaffe

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Speaker 1: notices Jefferson County's district attorney, a man named David Barber.

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Speaker 1: He's in charge of all state prosecutions in Alabama's law

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Speaker 1: or just jurisdiction, and is working with police in the

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Speaker 1: Deputy Hardy murder investigation. When Jeffie sees Barber, he walks

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Speaker 1: over to him and.

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Speaker 11: I said, what's going on with our Dragus And David said, well,

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Speaker 11: we know he was there and he's not telling us

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Speaker 11: the truth, so we're going to charge him. He can

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Speaker 11: either be a witness or a defendant. I said, well,

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Speaker 11: what are you saying, and he said, just that witness

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Speaker 11: are defendant.

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Speaker 8: It's his choice.

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Speaker 1: The choice detectives are giving our dragis either he gives

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Speaker 1: them information about Hardy's murder or he'll be charged with

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Speaker 1: a crime.

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Speaker 11: If I had any idea that they thought he was there,

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Speaker 11: I nor any lawyer would allow their client in any case,

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Speaker 11: especially we're a definitely case. It's being interviewed by law enforcement.

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Speaker 11: They just wouldn't allow it. Frankly, I felt a little

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Speaker 11: inept and a little foolish, as well as a little deceived.

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Speaker 11: And I said, well, what can I do to help?

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Speaker 11: And he said, we'll go in there and get him

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Speaker 11: to tell the truth. And I said, well, then you're

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Speaker 11: going to have to give him immunity.

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Speaker 1: According to Jeffy, David Barber offers ar Dregas immunity from

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Speaker 1: prosecution in exchange for naming to Forrest as the shooter.

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Speaker 1: Jeffy says, Barber hand writes the immunity agreement on a

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Speaker 1: piece of paper and gives it to him.

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Speaker 11: David's word was good with me. And I walked into

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Speaker 11: a little office where Ardregas was in his wheelchair sitting there.

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Speaker 11: Didn't look happy, certainly, wasn't happy with me at all,

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Speaker 11: and I said, what's going on? And he said they

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Speaker 11: were screaming at me, and they made me tell the

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Speaker 11: story over and over and over again, and even tell

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Speaker 11: it backwards. And I said, well, this is an immunity agreement.

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Speaker 11: Maybe we should talk about it. And he reads it

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Speaker 11: and he said, said, so they want me to lie.

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Speaker 11: He said, look, mister Jaffy, I wasn't there, and I've

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Speaker 11: got a dozen or more alibi witnesses that will testify

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Speaker 11: to that I know nothing about it. Zero. I said, okay,

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Speaker 11: well they think that you're not a shooter, but you

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Speaker 11: were there, and they think to Forrest is the shooter.

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Speaker 11: And he looked at me and he said, listen, I'm

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Speaker 11: not going to lie for anybody. To Forrest and I

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Speaker 11: are close, but we're not that close. He's not family.

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Speaker 11: I would happy to give to Forrest up in a heartbeat,

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Speaker 11: except it would be a lie. And I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 11: That never happens, even on a theft case, even on

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Speaker 11: a possession of marijuana case, even on a hubcap case.

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Speaker 11: Everybody flips sadly enough to save themselves. Yeah, he said,

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Speaker 11: no way, not gonna lie. I said, all right, well

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Speaker 11: they're going to take you to jail. They're going to

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Speaker 11: wheel you to jail, and they're going to charge you

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Speaker 11: with capital murder, which is death penalty offense. And he goes,

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Speaker 11: I wasn't there. Tell him to take me to jail,

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Speaker 11: and they did.

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Speaker 1: The next day, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office announces formal

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Speaker 1: charges in the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy.

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Speaker 4: Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer our

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Speaker 4: twenty two year old tor Forrest Johnson, twenty one year

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Speaker 4: old are Dragis Ford, twenty three year old Ohman Berry,

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Speaker 4: and twenty one year old Quinn Tes Wilson. They are

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Speaker 4: held without bond.

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Speaker 1: All four people charged with capital murder are young black men.

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Speaker 1: Based on the changing stories of Yolanda Chambers, detectives believe

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Speaker 1: at least six people were in the parking lot behind

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Speaker 1: the hotel when Hardy was Shotlanda and Latanya to Forrest

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Speaker 1: and Ardregis, and the two other people Yolanda identified in photos,

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Speaker 1: Omar Barry and Quintez Wilson. The headline and the Birmingham

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Speaker 1: News reads police confident they got right men and deputy

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Speaker 1: slaying sounds like an open and shut investigation, but pull

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Speaker 1: back the curtain or in this case, open up the

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Speaker 1: investigative file and the inner workings tell a different story.

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Speaker 7: Do you he my man?

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Speaker 8: It is.

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Speaker 12: Lab hads ma be sorrow dep re list.

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Speaker 7: In this bas both tears.

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Speaker 12: I want to see.

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Speaker 7: Revelation. I want to know who you A'm retional in

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Speaker 7: thisspiration to the wood. Who's holding? Start to the Who's holding?

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburn. This is ear witness Chapter four, Witness

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Speaker 1: or defendant the tactic the state uses with Ardregis telling

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Speaker 1: him he can either be a witness or a defendant.

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Speaker 1: Detective Tony Richardson repeats it over and over during Deputy

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Speaker 1: Hardy's murder investigation.

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Speaker 8: You are in a position now to be one of

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Speaker 8: two things.

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Speaker 9: Okay, you can either be a witness or.

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Speaker 8: You can be a defendant. You know, you can either

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Speaker 8: be a witness or you can be a defendant.

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Speaker 9: Can only be either a witness or you can be

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Speaker 9: a defendant. Okay, it's your choice, you make it. You

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Speaker 9: tell me what you want to do.

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Speaker 1: One of the people Tony Richardson uses this tactic on

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Speaker 1: is Yolanda Chamber's friend Latanya Henderson, who is in the

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Speaker 1: car with DeForest Ardregis and Yolanda, the night Deputy Hardy

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Speaker 1: was killed.

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Speaker 9: Datanya, I am working a homicide, okay, And in working

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Speaker 9: this homicide, people have choices. It's choice whether you want

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Speaker 9: to be a witness or you want to be a defendant.

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Speaker 1: Latanya is sixteen years old. She's in high school and

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Speaker 1: lives with her mother and brother. And as she's questioned

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Speaker 1: about the knight of the murder, she's alone in the

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Speaker 1: room with detectives, no lawyer, no parent present.

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Speaker 8: I'm not saying anything to entice you to say something.

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Speaker 9: You tell me what was the truth, and you tell

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Speaker 9: me that's the truth, and I'm gonna take it like that.

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Speaker 8: But I do want you to know that some people

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Speaker 8: are going to be witnesses. Some are going to be defendants.

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Speaker 8: Defendants going to jail. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now, after giving Latania this choice, Detective Richardson asks her

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Speaker 1: where she was that night?

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Speaker 9: Were you at NIA or around at hotel when this

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Speaker 9: officer was shot?

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Speaker 8: No, sir, okay, And you've never been there before. No,

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Speaker 8: I haven't.

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Speaker 9: And you have no independent knowledge of what happened to

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Speaker 9: this office.

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Speaker 8: No I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Despite being told she's a suspect and a murder Latania

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Speaker 1: does not change her story, but she also doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to understand the rules of the game detectives are playing.

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Speaker 1: She asks Detective Richardson to explain, that's a.

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Speaker 8: Question, is defendent of someone's charged with the crime? Well? No, no, no, no, defendant?

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Speaker 13: No?

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Speaker 8: All right, so you want to.

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Speaker 1: Be Latanya has to ask what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a defendant, then says she doesn't want to be charged

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Speaker 1: with the crime. At one point, Richardson stops the tape

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Speaker 1: like he's done in Yolanda's interviews, and restarts it after

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Speaker 1: a five minute break.

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Speaker 9: You know what the crown starney isn't Would you know

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Speaker 9: it if you saw it?

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Speaker 14: No?

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Speaker 8: I have never seen it. I have nothing.

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Speaker 9: Were you in any hotel parking lot that night where

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Speaker 9: shots were fire?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 9: Okay, this sort of Tony rich and justin kind of

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Speaker 9: shares shot at the time, it's three fifty pm.

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Speaker 8: This is going to conclude this interview.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of the interviews that you did in

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Speaker 1: this case, you and Sergeant Salter presented a choice. You

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Speaker 1: can be a witness or you can be a defendant.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about presenting that to somebody that you're interviewing.

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Speaker 1: That seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone.

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Speaker 3: Well, at certain times you have to put pressure on somebody.

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Speaker 8: That's just a that's just a strategy. That's that's just an.

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Speaker 3: Investigative too, that's that.

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Speaker 8: That's nothing.

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Speaker 3: So I look at you and I say, look, you

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Speaker 3: can either be a witness.

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Speaker 8: Or you can be a defendant. It's up to you.

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Speaker 8: And that's the truth.

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Speaker 1: What if the person is neither a witness nor a

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Speaker 1: defendant in the case, though.

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Speaker 3: Well, sometimes you say that trying to determine if they

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Speaker 3: are witness or defendant, you know, particularly if you don't know,

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Speaker 3: and if they continue to maintain I know nothing, at

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Speaker 3: some point I'm gonna say, okay, I got you.

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Speaker 1: But for Latania, there was never an okay, I got

224
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: you from investigators. Even though she explains she doesn't know

225
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,200
Speaker 1: anything about the crime, detectives follow through with their threat

226
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:39,000
Speaker 1: and make her a defendant. One month after Tony Richardson

227
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: questions Latania, the state charges her with hindering prosecution in Alabama.

228
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 1: That's a felony at sixteen years old. Police take Latania

229
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 1: Henderson to adult jail, where she stays for five months.

230
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,880
Speaker 15: You know, Latania Henderson. I mean, even if she had

231
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 15: been there. Yeah, even Iflanda's story was true.

232
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 8: What she had defendant on, you know, what has she done?

233
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: This is Derek Drennan, a lawyer who worked with Richard

234
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: Jeffy in representing Ardregis.

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00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 15: Ford, and I don't know. I think they charged with

236
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 15: hindering prosecution, maybe because because basically she wasn't telling the

237
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 15: lies that Yolanda was telling.

238
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 1: A few years later, Latania says that she was hysterical

239
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,359
Speaker 1: when they took her to jail, desperate to get detectives

240
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 1: to believe her. She says that she suffered from stress

241
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 1: and lost too much weight. I really wanted to talk

242
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 1: to Latanya to hear how this experience shaped her, and

243
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 1: we tried for months to track her down, looking on doors,

244
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: calling possible numbers, combing social media, but we never could connect.

245
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 1: I was able to talk to her uncle, Herman Henderson,

246
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: a pastor in Birmingham. He told me Latania and Yolanda

247
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 1: had been friends since they were babies, but this case

248
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,479
Speaker 1: ended their friendship and Latanya was scarred by the entire experience.

249
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 1: Her trust in other people eroded. Yolanda Chambers and Latanya

250
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 1: Henderson made different choices when faced with threats from police.

251
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 1: There's a damned if you do, damned if you don't

252
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 1: dynamic and how they were each impacted. Yolanda became a

253
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 1: witness for detectives, avoiding jail time during Hardy's murder investigation,

254
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 1: but entered a pattern of exploitation that may have led

255
00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: to her murder. Latanya became a defendant for telling the truth.

256
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: She didn't have any information to give, and detectives sent

257
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: her to jail. Both Yolanda and Latanya ended up traumatized

258
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 1: and hurt. And as I think through how detectives treated

259
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 1: these witnesses and the suspects of Harty's murder, I keep

260
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: coming back to this one thing that Tony Richardson.

261
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 3: Said, The best thing that a person probably can do

262
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 3: for themselves that's suspected of a crime is do not

263
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 3: talk to the bout pace period.

264
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 1: Now that's really interesting coming from a retired detective.

265
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 8: But that's the truth.

266
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: Detectives are moving ahead with the theory of the crime

267
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: that Yolanda Chambers gives them and her interrogations, even though

268
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,199
Speaker 1: the theory isn't supported by what hotel witnesses saw and

269
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 1: heard the night of the murder. So what were detectives missing,

270
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: what evidence was available? And was there anything else they

271
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 1: should have looked at but didn't because they decided to

272
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: stick with Yolanda as their key witness. Let's back up

273
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: to the moment Hardy was shot. We know officers began

274
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: their investigation by talking to hotel guests actual confirmed witnesses

275
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 1: who were staying at the Crown Sterling Suites. Several people

276
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 1: heard the shots and looked out their window right after

277
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 1: it happened, like Marshal Kelly Cummings the Keebler Cookie Guy.

278
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 10: Following the interview with mister Marshall Kelly Cummings, mitter Collens

279
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 10: is in polled by Kedler.

280
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 1: This interview was recorded about two and a half hours

281
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 1: after Hardy was shot. Cummings says he saw someone get

282
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 1: into a car and drive away from the hotel right

283
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: after he heard the shots fired.

284
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 8: Immediately seen the savend shot wrung out.

285
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 3: I pulled the cartain back and looked out and that's

286
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 3: when I saw the car down below me.

287
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 8: I saw the a person.

288
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: Cummings says he saw the person close the driver's side door.

289
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,120
Speaker 8: I looked at closing witch door the driver shot.

290
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: He saw a copper colored or light brown car with

291
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 1: a vinyl top, slowly back out of the parking spot

292
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: and drive away with the headlights off.

293
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 8: But you think it was a dark copper or like browd, Yes, sir.

294
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: And there was another witness in a different hotel room

295
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: who also looked out his window after he heard the shots.

296
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 8: All right, we heard a shot. I jumped up.

297
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 14: I actually a doorged in my head out.

298
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,959
Speaker 1: The night of the murder, Leon Calvin was staying in

299
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: room six' eleven with his Wife. Annie the two of

300
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 1: them were in. Bed he was WATCHING tv and she

301
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: was reading the. Newspaper they heard the first shot And

302
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: leon Told annie he thought it was a car. Backfiring

303
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: he heard a.

304
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 8: Shot. Bang tell me how long after is?

305
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 7: It?

306
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:35,959
Speaker 9: Bang?

307
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 8: Bang, okay so Just i'll second or so.

308
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah after the second, Shot calvin went to the window

309
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,680
Speaker 1: to see what was going.

310
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 16: On seeing a.

311
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 3: Car down by the bag of the, motel.

312
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 8: He walked up, beside came round in front of the

313
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 8: car and got in the.

314
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: Car calvin's description of the car and what the car

315
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 1: did is it left the parking lot matches the details

316
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: given By Marshall.

317
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 13: CUMMINGS i told him it was there was a dog

318
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 13: colored gold all brown with a kind of maroon looking

319
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 13: top with a sun.

320
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: Roping Both cummings And calvin say the car was a

321
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: four door, brown gold or copper sedan with a maroon.

322
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: Top that's so. Specific they both say it was the

323
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: only car leaving the parking lot right after shots were.

324
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: Fired what these witnesses saw doesn't match the theory of the,

325
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: murder detectives go with. Manicolo ardregis describes his car to

326
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: detectives the day he's. Arrested he was driving a two

327
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 1: door black nineteen seventy One Monte. Carlo we'll call it Blood.

328
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: End he had installed Flow master, mufflers so it made a,

329
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: loud rumbling.

330
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 17: SOUND i got like flow.

331
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 8: Mass you got these Floor masters?

332
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: Loud, okay people could Hear ardregas's car coming from blocks

333
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: away To forest tells detectives that when they picked Up,

334
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: latanya they actually waited for her in an alley because

335
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: they didn't want to wake up the entire. House But

336
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,120
Speaker 1: calvin And cummings say that the light brown or copper

337
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,959
Speaker 1: colored car quietly drove out of the parking, lot and

338
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: there's an even bigger discrepancy not.

339
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 8: Do i'll grove a door on.

340
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: Over the driver's side door On ardregas's very loud Black

341
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: Monte carlo was. Broken it did not, open Ar dregas

342
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: and to forst tell this to Detectives Dreda.

343
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 8: Domo At Duel delt the driver doom went.

344
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: Off investigators impounded Are dregis's car and confirmed the driver's

345
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: side door didn't. Open Detective Tony richardson would later testify to,

346
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: this but Both calvin And cummings say that someone got

347
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: in the driver's side of the car and quietly drove.

348
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 3: AWAY i seen.

349
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 8: Him he walked from the patent's side round in front

350
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 8: of the car to the driver side the.

351
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: Gadion there were other guests at the hotel who spotted

352
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: cars leaving the area around this, time but their descriptions

353
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: were all. Different the only consistent descriptions of the getaway

354
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: car came From cummings And, calvin two people who went

355
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: to their hotel room windows after hearing shots and looked

356
00:23:54,920 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: down into the parking. Lot the investigative file shows that

357
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: police tried to find the car seen By calvin In,

358
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: cummings But Tony richardson would eventually tell a grand jury

359
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: the search was a wild goose, chase and that the

360
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: car didn't. Exist and there's something even more significant about

361
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: this other hotel, Witness Leon. Calvin he gives police a

362
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: basic description of the. Man he saw five foot, ten

363
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: medium build who got into the car and drove.

364
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 9: Away, yeah a black and white driver shirt and it

365
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 9: looked like he had count.

366
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 8: Be catty the.

367
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: Summer calvin describes the man as wearing a black and

368
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: white shirt and khaki or cream. Pants this is the

369
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: only physical description given of a potential, suspect but detectives

370
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: decide That calvin isn't a, Witness he's a. Defendant AS

371
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: i dig, DEEPER i learn That Detective Tony richardson And

372
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: Leon colvin are, cousins and in the first week of the,

373
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: Investigation richardson decides That colvin is hiding. Something we have.

374
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 8: Talked with several.

375
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 9: People people we have talked to have have indicated that

376
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 9: you do know.

377
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: More calvin gives detectives multiple statements about what he heard and,

378
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: saw And Tony richardson interrogates him for hours about his

379
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: movements inside the hotel the night of the, murder insisting

380
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: That calvin was.

381
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 9: Involved if you tell us one thing and it's not.

382
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 9: Accurate if we know that you know, different and you

383
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 9: can be charged with the. Crime, okay just show you a.

384
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: Note Tony richardson Shows Yolanda chambers four photo of possible.

385
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: Suspects yolanda picks out the photo Of Leon calvin and

386
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: says he was involved in the alleged drug deal behind

387
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: the hotel When hardy was.

388
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 9: Killed loud of that, light, upset you were standing right

389
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 9: there when the man was.

390
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: Shot Leon calvin is charged with hindering prosecution and taken to.

391
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 14: Jail, well my.

392
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 4: Most, HEY i aint did did?

393
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 9: HIM i ain't did?

394
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: NONE i did? HIM i did did?

395
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 10: HIM i did.

396
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: Him police press ahead With ardregis into forrest as two

397
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: of their main, suspects even though there is no record

398
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: of any hotel witness describing a loud two door Black

399
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 1: Bonnie carlo leaving the scene or a man in a.

400
00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: Wheelchair there's another clue in the file that jumps out at.

401
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: ME a police report from a day after the murder

402
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: states that a hotel worker Named jerry McDaniel told detectives

403
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: that he Saw Deputy hardy arguing with a group of

404
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: young black men who had been running around inside the,

405
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: hotel especially the sixth. Floor there's even a description of

406
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 1: one of these young, men six feet, tall, slim wearing a,

407
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: dark baggy basketball jersey with the number thirty three on.

408
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: It WHEN i first read, THIS i was, LIKE whoa

409
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: What this information seems super. Relevant hardy was arguing with

410
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: the group of people just hours before he was. Murdered

411
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: jerry McDaniel would later testify in court that he Saw

412
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: hardy having this loud argument with the group of young

413
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: men around TEN, pm and that he Saw hardy again

414
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: before he left for the night around eleven. Thirty McDaniel

415
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: Said hardy was standing at the back door of the,

416
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: hotel propping it open with his. Foot he also spotted

417
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: the same group of young men outside in the back

418
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: parking lot as he left work to go. Home he

419
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 1: said that after the, Confrontation hardy seemed, mad SAYING i

420
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: ain't never seen him like that. Before but detectives never

421
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: identified the young men and later say their interview With

422
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: jerry McDaniel never led to any more. EVIDENCE i want

423
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: to pursue. This If jerry McDaniel is still, around maybe

424
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: he can give us some new information about those last

425
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: hours Of hardy's, life something about the young men he

426
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: saw arguing With, hardy some new nugget to breathe life

427
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: into this. Case i'm looking, for, Mister jerry, McDaniel.

428
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 14: Is that?

429
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 8: You thank you so.

430
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: Much jerry McDaniel is retired in his seventies and lives

431
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: in a small green Shake shingle, bungalow the same house

432
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: he's lived in his entire adult. Life we talk on

433
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: his porch and he Remembers hardy's murder conversation with.

434
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 10: Anybody, Yeah, Coase i'm moving around SO i see. Everything

435
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 10: i've become total ashn and. Stuff you, know there's been

436
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 10: a lot of stuff going on that.

437
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: Hotel.

438
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: Dogs McDaniel also remembers Seeing hardy argue with the group

439
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: of young men inside the. HOTEL i, mean did it

440
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: seem Like Deputy hardy knew those?

441
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 8: PEOPLE i don't.

442
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 10: Know you might have known him cause he something he

443
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 10: he wanted something they had or something they didn't give

444
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 10: him SOMETHING i don't what it.

445
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: Was and about an hour and a half, later when

446
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: he ended his shift and left the, building he passed By,

447
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: hardy who was standing at the hotel's back. Door do

448
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: you remember look exactly what you.

449
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 10: Saw, yeah he was standing at the back door back

450
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 10: there to the, right and and it was a CAR

451
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 10: i did WHEN i, left you, know read, there read

452
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 10: dead to back by what a dark.

453
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: Bed but that's pretty much all he. Remembers had police

454
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: aggressively pursued this, lead they might have gotten. Somewhere but,

455
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: now decades, later McDaniel can no longer recall any other

456
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: specific details about the car or anything else from that.

457
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: Night whatever he, saw whoever those young men, were that

458
00:30:49,280 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: potential big lead has, faded likely impossible to. Recover after

459
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: reading through hundreds of pages of, Reports there's a question

460
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: that still sticks with. Me why Did Deputy hardy leave

461
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: the hotel atrium where he was drinking coffee and smoking

462
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: a cigarette to go out the back door to the

463
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: parking lot without his radio and then.

464
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 16: Ute every hour on the hour or so or every

465
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 16: hour and a, half he would do a drive around

466
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 16: the premises to check out the perimeter of the.

467
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: Hotel according To Barry, rushikov the hotel desk, Clerk hardy's

468
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: routine was to walk around inside the hotel when he

469
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: was making his, rounds but when he checked around the

470
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: outside of the, hotel he usually drove around the property

471
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: in his car right after the. Crime the sheriff tells

472
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: reporters That Deputy hardy may have been investigating something, suspicious

473
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: maybe a drug. Deal but If hardy went outside to

474
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: check something behind the, hotel why would he leave his

475
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: two way radio on the table. Inside barry talked to

476
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: detectives just five hours after the. Murder he told them

477
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: about how weird this detail seemed to.

478
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 15: Him tell me what she thought was unusual about?

479
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 8: Him not in the wont to tell?

480
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: Me Offer, hardy if he got, out he always put

481
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: the radio in his back, pocket and if he was,

482
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: smoking he never would leave us a. Cigarette, really he

483
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: would always walk around with. It for him to have

484
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: left both the radio and a cigarette was extremely unlike,

485
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: him completely unlike.

486
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: Him hardy had over two decades of experience as a

487
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Officer leaving his radio behind seems out of,

488
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: character and he also left his cigarette. Burning is it

489
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: possible that he was expecting to go outside, quickly maybe

490
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: to meet, someone and that's why he left them. Behind

491
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: is it possible That hardy knew his? KILLER i tried

492
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: to look into. This there is a file containing records

493
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: of the calls that police received from the special tip

494
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: line set up for the, case AND i found eight

495
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: different tips urging detectives to look Into hardy's personal. Life

496
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: these tips suggest that Someone hardy knew might be connected

497
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: to his. MURDER i Asked Detective Tony richardson about. This

498
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: is there anything that you recall y'all investigating as far

499
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: as that, GOES.

500
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 3: I don't recall, that recall us investigating. Anything i'll say

501
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: right now THAT i wouldn't. HAVE i, Mean i'm investigating

502
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 3: the police officers is. Dead he's been shot and. Killed

503
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: it don't matter what he. Did if somebody walked up

504
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: to him and shot him like.

505
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: That my Producer mara presses.

506
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 9: Him like the first thing to, me IF i hear

507
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 9: that somebody has, KILLED i would look at their life

508
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 9: for a motive instead of assuming that it was.

509
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 8: Random is that not where you would? Start you? KNOW

510
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 8: i can explain like, This.

511
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: When hardy was, shot he was in, uniform working a

512
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 3: part time security, job still a serfs.

513
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 8: Deputy now doing his, job and he was shot and.

514
00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 13: Killed, okay if he he had been.

515
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 8: At home.

516
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: In his, pajamas.

517
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 8: Shot and kill.

518
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 13: In, bed.

519
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 8: We would have looked at him because that's what you.

520
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: Do Because Deputy hardy was a police officer and was

521
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: killed in, uniform not in his own bed wearing, Pajamas

522
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: Detective richardson says he wouldn't have looked into people that Knew. Hardy,

523
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: Instead richardson repeats the theory That hardy walked up on

524
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: a drug deal that he wasn't supposed to see and

525
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: that's why he was. Killed an insider THAT i talked,

526
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: to a retired bailiff who worked In Jefferson county When

527
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: Deputy hardy was, murdered told me that this theory about

528
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: a police officer interrupting a drug, deal it's like a

529
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: default explanation when detectives don't have any idea what. Happened

530
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: the sheriff first mentioned the scenario hours after the, murder

531
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: and the media ran with. It the only eventual evidence

532
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: to support this theory the always changing statements From Yolanda.

533
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: Chambers detectives not only missed potential promising, leads they also

534
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: ignored facts that could have ruled out To Forrest johnson

535
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: and Ardregas ford as. Suspects some of the people who

536
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: were with To forest And ardregas At tea's place remember

537
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: learning about their arrests from the media coverage the week

538
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: after the.

539
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 9: Murder WHEN i read it in the, PAPER i saw

540
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 9: To forest name AND i was, like, well.

541
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 16: How did he do?

542
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 8: It we was At tease the you know that.

543
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: Night Can Yarra pickett was At teas at the same

544
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: Time Deputy hardy was. Killed she was out celebrating with

545
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: her Sister, deidre who had just recovered from, surgery and

546
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: To forrest gave her name to, police a female And.

547
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 14: Galla keenan kend.

548
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: K he told them to find a girl named ken

549
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: that he was hanging out with At, teas but they

550
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: never called or knocked on her.

551
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: DOOR i never went to the police or anything BECAUSE

552
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: i was on the age at the.

553
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 8: Time, YEAH i mean.

554
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: That how old were?

555
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 14: YOU i THINK i was.

556
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 9: Twenty it was ninety five twenty In.

557
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: April, Yes so did they not check id's at the

558
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: club or did y'all have fake? Id's they had a FAKE.

559
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: Id so that made you not want to go to

560
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: police because you didn't want to go worn't supposed to be.

561
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 8: There, YEAH i didn't want to go.

562
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: There kenyara was scared that she would end up in

563
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: jail if she went to, POLICE.

564
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 6: I saw on the news That Tfara johnson had been

565
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 6: picked up for that murder Of Officer. HARDY i, said

566
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 6: wait a, minute there's no, WAY i, SAID i saw to.

567
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: Fire Stanley chandler is another person who saw To forrest

568
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: And ardregis At tea's place at the Time Deputy hardy was.

569
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: Murdered stanley is A Us marine and he was also

570
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: hesitant to get.

571
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 5: Involved you know you twenty, FIVE i.

572
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 6: Just cannot walk and down to count of jails say,

573
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 6: HEY i saw that guy at the club that night

574
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 6: at that. Time you, know so no one never contacted,

575
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 6: me and SO i felt like If farres needed, me

576
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 6: that someone would reach. OUT i had no knowledge of

577
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 6: what to.

578
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: Do Are dregas and To forrest told police about multiple

579
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: people they were with At, tease the bartender who remade

580
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: a weak, drink the guy who sold To forest a

581
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 1: hot dog outside the, club and the girls they chatted

582
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 1: with in the parking. Lot To forrest also Gave Tony

583
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: richardson the names and phone numbers of friends he remembered

584
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: seeing inside the.

585
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 14: Club y feed man name Is queasy Were.

586
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Queasy Including queisi And Mama.

587
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: Catay with one Fname Mama cat.

588
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 8: And number seven eighty Five forest, right? Okay.

589
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 5: Uh The forest couldn't give us any names other than

590
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 5: nicknames or maybe a first.

591
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 8: Name there was no way that we could find a.

592
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 5: Witness but we sat and we, waited hoping that you

593
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 5: know who don't know that The forest is in jail

594
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 5: for this, crime maybe they'll come. Forward not a single

595
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 5: one nobody came forward to, say, hey you got the

596
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 5: wrong guy he was he was at the.

597
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: Club not a single person came forward to say To

598
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: forrest was At tea's place the night of the. Murder

599
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: After Tony richardson tells me, THIS i look through the

600
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: investigative file to double check.

601
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 14: This Sergeant Tony richardson J Just County sheriff's. OFFICE i

602
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 14: am on the phone with Bar betta and that SPELLED

603
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 14: BA R B E t t A, hunt also known

604
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 14: As Mama. Cat do you remember Where Taforest johnson was

605
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 14: on the night Of july to eighteenth or the morning

606
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 14: Of july to, nineteen IS i?

607
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 11: Too?

608
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 14: Okay can you tell me?

609
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: Where right there in the folder of recorded police, INTERVIEWS

610
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: i find That Detective richardson did talk with an alibi

611
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: witness he Called mama cat about a month after the. Murder,

612
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: WELL i saw him a teas.

613
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 14: Place you saw Me tea's. Place, YES i was with

614
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 14: my Friend Belanique. Sanders Belanique. Sanders, oh, okay all, RIGHT

615
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 14: i am on the phone With Bello Nique. Sanders felaanick

616
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 14: is also known As queasy and her home phone numbers seven.

617
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: Eighty on the same, Day Detective richardson talked To, velaanique

618
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: also known As. Queasy she told him she sow To

619
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: forrest And ardregas Inside tease between ELEVEN pm and one. THIRTY. Am,

620
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: okay all.

621
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 14: Right is there any particular reason that you remember the

622
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 14: time that they got, there any time that they.

623
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 3: Left, yes the time that they got, there my friend

624
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 3: By Bella, hunt her beeper had went, out AND i

625
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 3: remember her telling me.

626
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: What time it.

627
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 14: Was, okay what about the time they?

628
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: Left the time they, left my beeper went.

629
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 14: Out, okay my sister was paiding me to tell me

630
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 14: to come.

631
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 10: Home uh, Huh that's WHY i remember the.

632
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 14: Time, okay all right.

633
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: NOW i Interviewed Tony richardson twenty seven years after this.

634
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: INVESTIGATION i guess it's possible that he just doesn't remember

635
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: speaking With Mama cat And. Quisi so AFTER i found

636
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: these phone, CALLS i went back to ask him about.

637
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: It there were alibi witnesses on the record that told

638
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: Y'ALL i saw them At tea's. Place now whatever went

639
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: into not believing them as not in any files that

640
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: we've been able to.

641
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 5: Access, well SINCE i don't know.

642
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: Who this witness, WAS i can't remember. THEM i can't

643
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 3: remember what they. Said, UH i can't really tell you

644
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 3: IF i believe them or. Not probably, Not probably.

645
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: Not but cops have a lot of discretion as far

646
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: as that goes right in believers believing alibi witnesses or

647
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: not believing alibi.

648
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 17: Witnesses well you, HAVE i, mean you can believe but disbelieve.

649
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 17: Anybody but if someone tells you something that either you

650
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 17: need to check out or check, further or tells you

651
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 17: something that could possibly have, happened you have an obligation

652
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 17: to either prove or disprove that.

653
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 8: You have that.

654
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: Obligation but speaking With Mama cat And, quisi hearing them

655
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: corroborate To forrest And ardregis's, alibi it wasn't enough for

656
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: detectives to question their own theory of the. Crime the

657
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: pressure to put someone on trial for Killing Deputy hardy

658
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: isn't letting. Up but fifteen months after the, crime the

659
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: judge dismisses capital murder charges against two of their main,

660
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: Suspects Omar berry And Quintez. Wilson Yolanda chambers changes her

661
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: story to say they weren't involved in the. Murder they

662
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: also have alibis and police believe, them so detectives let them.

663
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: Go To forrest And ardregas are now the only two

664
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: suspects charged With Deputy hardy's, murder But wright is detective

665
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: zero in On, ardregas and To, forest they run into

666
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: a big. Problem two weeks after she Says Omar berry

667
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: And Quintez wilson have nothing to do with the, Crime

668
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: Yolanda chambers pivots and says under oath that she's made

669
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: up the entire story about the. Murder she recants all

670
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: of her, testimony now saying To forrest And ardregas also

671
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: had nothing.

672
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 7: To do with the.

673
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: Murder evidence, wise we didn't have virtually, well we had

674
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 3: virtually no.

675
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 13: Evidence we had the word of a fifteen year old

676
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 13: who told, lies a lot of.

677
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 16: LIES i lie, out lie out.

678
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: Lie we had this table empty wasn't nothing on, it

679
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 3: and we were still trying to try that, case and

680
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 3: we were, like, man what we gonna.

681
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 8: Do how we're gonna win?

682
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: This but investigators have someone, else someone they hadn't initially,

683
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: believed someone who will become the state's new star witness

684
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: against To Forrest.

685
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 17: Johnson bally us walking that door and stand up on

686
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 17: this table and say what she.

687
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 8: Said we got a full. Table now we got all

688
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 8: the evidence we.

689
00:45:53,480 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: Need that's next. Time Ear witness is a production Of

690
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts in association With Signal Company Number.

691
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: One executive producers Are Jason, Flomm Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wardis

692
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: and Me Beth. Shelburn the investigative reporting for this series

693
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: was done By me AND maraa. McNamara producers ARE maraa,

694
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: McNamara Hannah bial And Jackie. Pauley Kara kornhaber is our senior.

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00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: Producer Britt spangler is our sound. Designer additional story editing

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00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: From Marie, sutton fact check help From Katherine, newhan and

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00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: special thanks to To Forrest johnson's legal defense. Team you

698
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: can follow the show On, instagram, TikTok, facebook And twitter

699
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: At lava For Good to see behind the scenes content

700
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: from our, Investigation Visit lava For good dot, com slash

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00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: earwitness