Speaker 1: The volume. John Middlecoff is about to stop on buy
Speaker 1: former NFL scout. You hear him every Sunday night or
Speaker 1: Monday morning. We chop it up for about fifty minutes
Speaker 1: to an hour. NFL Free Agency. Lot of things to
Speaker 1: talk about. Looks like the Bears are going with Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 1: Exciting stuff. Before we get there, let's talk about the
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Speaker 1: let's welcome in. It's our usual close to an hour
Speaker 1: long chat with John Middlecoff, former NFL Scout three and
Speaker 1: out at the volume his podcast before we start on
Speaker 1: this years and years ago. You know, twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: when twenty five years ago and you didn't have the
Speaker 1: one and done culture, the transfer portal, you know, college basketball,
Speaker 1: you would have teams with four to five NBA players
Speaker 1: on it and they would come back for their junior
Speaker 1: or senior year in college basketball. So like boxing, no
Speaker 1: sports eroded quite like college basketball over the last twenty
Speaker 1: five years. I was watching Today in the selection show
Speaker 1: and people were lamenting that Saint John's was left out,
Speaker 1: and I went and looked because twice this year Patino
Speaker 1: said his team lacked athletes, so that's his own coach.
Speaker 1: At one point, they lost eight of ten games, they
Speaker 1: didn't have a big out of conference win, and they
Speaker 1: played Yukon close, and I'm like, if that's the snub,
Speaker 1: the tournament officially not as great as it used to be.
Speaker 1: Like I will have a blast watch that this weekend.
Speaker 1: But I don't know about you, but you know, I
Speaker 1: mean that last year the top four picks in the
Speaker 1: NBA draft were from four different leagues. So when you
Speaker 1: watch the games like this year, there's not a dominant player,
Speaker 1: the kid from Purdue, and people don't even know if
Speaker 1: they'll make the NBA because he can't guard anybody, the
Speaker 1: seven foot four guy. What do you make of selection Sunday?
Speaker 1: Do you watch it?
Speaker 2: No? I didn't watch one second, And I'll watch, you know,
Speaker 2: hours upon hours over the next several weeks of all
Speaker 2: these games, especially this upcoming weekend. When I first bought
Speaker 2: this house, I joined a gym down the road. It
Speaker 2: turns out Bobby Hurley also works out at that gym,
Speaker 2: and I remember I got on an elliptical and he's
Speaker 2: right there, and I started thinking to myself, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: How famous when he was young. He was a way
Speaker 2: more famous college athlete than he ever was. His pro
Speaker 2: career got derailed when he got in the accident. But
Speaker 2: how many players like Bobby Hurley existed? And you know
Speaker 2: you were around tark I got a bunch of Fresno
Speaker 2: or family in Fresno. When he went to Fresno State.
Speaker 2: These college coaches in the eighties and nineties, I mean,
Speaker 2: there are still some of them hanging on, but the
Speaker 2: fame of college basketball in the eighties and nineties to
Speaker 2: what it is now of just I'm gonna watch the
Speaker 2: I won't know one player, it won't necessarily matter, but
Speaker 2: it definitely hurts the sport from what it used to be.
Speaker 2: In it's heyday.
Speaker 1: I covered I think it was Indianapolis UNLV Duke Grant
Speaker 1: Hill was a freshman, Christian Laightner, Bobby Hurley, Larry Johnson,
Speaker 1: Stacy Augman, Greg Anthony Moses Scurry, Anderson Hunt who I
Speaker 1: think got drafted by the Celtics but didn't make it.
Speaker 1: There were like nine NBA guys on the floor. Christian Latner,
Speaker 1: you know, made a dream team, made an Olympic. The
Speaker 1: quality now the best players in college basketball. And again,
Speaker 1: I'll watch the tournament like you, But the quality of
Speaker 1: boxing's gone into the tank because there's so much money
Speaker 1: in other sports that are great athletes. We don't have
Speaker 1: a Muhammad Ali anymore in boxing, Like you know, our
Speaker 1: great athletes have so many other options. So you know,
Speaker 1: I sit there and I watch this and I listen
Speaker 1: to people complain and listen to Mountain West got like
Speaker 1: six teams in Well, you know, I actually watched a
Speaker 1: couple of Mountain West games this year for a while,
Speaker 1: but that sport is it's hard for me to lose
Speaker 1: sleep when none of these teams. I watched the Yukon
Speaker 1: twice this year, and I thought they're pretty good. I
Speaker 1: never thought they were great. Iowa State I saw play
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, that's a good college basketball team.
Speaker 1: But be that as it may, let's segue to some
Speaker 1: of the biggest stuff I Over the weekend, I was
Speaker 1: hanging out for three four days in Mexico and my
Speaker 1: wife and I decided to go there very rarely, but
Speaker 1: I have good friends. And the Justin Field's story broke,
Speaker 1: so apparently two or three teams were interested. He one
Speaker 1: of the Pittsburgh Steelers, which is interesting because he has
Speaker 1: Russell Wilson in front of him. One thing I want
Speaker 1: to say, John, obviously the Bears. This would have been
Speaker 1: really interesting. So let's say because I think the Bears
Speaker 1: desperately wanted this to work with Justin because they could
Speaker 1: have moved off Caleb Williams and gotten two first two
Speaker 1: seconds on a fourth, you'd have been set for five years.
Speaker 1: So they were big. They dine for justin fields to work,
Speaker 1: and I think had he caught fire at Thanksgiving like
Speaker 1: Jordan Love did in mid October and gone on like
Speaker 1: an eight game heater with eleven touchdowns, two picks, sixty
Speaker 1: four percent completions. They didn't win all the games, but
Speaker 1: they were really You watched them like Jordan Love, and
Speaker 1: you thought, Okay, there it is. There's that two month
Speaker 1: stretch against multiple teams AFC, NFC Division games, sellout on
Speaker 1: the road, and you watch Jordan Love at the end
Speaker 1: and you're like, all right, dude can play. I'd like
Speaker 1: to see a few more, but dude can play. I
Speaker 1: think they kept waiting John and they just kept waiting
Speaker 1: for this six game heater when I think they kind
Speaker 1: of did give it to like December, and then they
Speaker 1: just went And then they watch him against Jordan Love
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, Jordan Love's done more than three
Speaker 1: months than this guy's done in three years. Do you
Speaker 1: believe they waited to the end or do you think
Speaker 1: they knew it Thanksgiving it was over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they waited till the end. I
Speaker 2: think they coming into the season, they were hopeful, and
Speaker 2: then as the season materialized and played out and it
Speaker 2: was clear they were getting the number one pick, he
Speaker 2: was done. Because the conviction you have as a general
Speaker 2: manager when you pick your own player, right, we see
Speaker 2: it with Chris Ballard right now, Anthony Richardson, or those
Speaker 2: guys in Houston with CJ. Stroud, or even the owner
Speaker 2: with Bryce Young. You are you're very invested, right, You
Speaker 2: put all the work in to draft them, You got
Speaker 2: to know him, and then you've gone all in to
Speaker 2: use your draft capital. Ryan Pols did not do that.
Speaker 2: He's not the GM that drafted him. So anytime that happens. Hell,
Speaker 2: you and I have been talking about this. Do you
Speaker 2: know what was on the forefront this weekend and you've
Speaker 2: been hammering this home year two Thanksgiving? As a player
Speaker 2: Canny pick two years they sift him.
Speaker 1: Out of the Yeah, yep, it was over like that,
Speaker 1: and that's one of the most loyal organizations you and
Speaker 1: I know that Pittsburgh struggled with that because he was
Speaker 1: a Pittsburgh kid, so they share a stadium. So yeah,
Speaker 1: to that point, yeah, I always say, now, because of
Speaker 1: all the seven on seven drills, in the camps. You
Speaker 1: get it used to get end of the third year,
Speaker 1: like Peyton Manning. First couple of years, you're like there's
Speaker 1: something there, but a lot of interceptions doesn't move. I
Speaker 1: think it's Thanksgiving second year and everybody's like raise your
Speaker 1: hand in the room, and they were kind of never
Speaker 1: done with them.
Speaker 2: I think making that trade and it has a chance
Speaker 2: to be one of the greatest trades of all time,
Speaker 2: right with the Carolina Panther trade for Ryan Poulse. If
Speaker 2: Caleb Williams just becomes he doesn't even need to become
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes if he just becomes a top ten quarterback,
Speaker 2: which the Bears have never really had. Definitely in my lifetime,
Speaker 2: it's a game changer for the franchise. But let's say
Speaker 2: they didn't have that pick and just had their ninth pick,
Speaker 2: they probably don't do this deal, not because they love
Speaker 2: justin fields, because they don't control draft. But once you
Speaker 2: get that number one overall pick and he's so clearly
Speaker 2: such a talented player, right, the other thing is that
Speaker 2: resets the contract. The other thing that was on it's crazy.
Speaker 2: I just I like, you just try to get away
Speaker 2: this weekend into the quarterback action was insane. The dominoes
Speaker 2: hit and they all started going. Contracts matter and the
Speaker 2: reason Sam Howell and Kenny Pickett went for more than
Speaker 2: Justin Fields and Mac Jones, those guys have one year
Speaker 2: left on their contract. Neither of them are gonna get
Speaker 2: their fifth year option, meaning they're a free agent at
Speaker 2: the end of the year. The Philadelphia Eagles did a
Speaker 2: pick swap from the third and fourth round because they
Speaker 2: get a guy on a two year contract, yeah, making
Speaker 2: seven million dollars. Even Jerry Jones, well Trey Lance went
Speaker 2: for more than these guys. Yeah, because Jerry got him
Speaker 2: for two seasons. A little bit of an overpay, But
Speaker 2: the contracts and the money that this is not fantasy
Speaker 2: football in a vacuum. There are actual contracts. There's a
Speaker 2: salary cap, and that was a problem. Once Mac Jones
Speaker 2: went for the sixth round pick. He has shown to
Speaker 2: play at a higher level than Justin Fields. Now, if
Speaker 2: I had to work with one today, I would rather
Speaker 2: take a chance on Justin Fields. Yeah, but that was
Speaker 2: the comp for him, like they were never getting like
Speaker 2: some third round pick. That was the going rate. And
Speaker 2: I don't quite believe there are a lot of teams
Speaker 2: beating down the door. It's they were interested at this number,
Speaker 2: but look at all these quarterbacks. All the action happened Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,
Speaker 2: everyone was just patient. Let's see, we're not going to overpay.
Speaker 2: If anything, in our minds, we're gonna underpay a six
Speaker 2: round pick call on that's nothing.
Speaker 1: Well. And also, a defensive coach is where he lands.
Speaker 1: So if I'm justin fields, I was praying that McVeigh
Speaker 1: wouldn't take Garoppolo, he'd take me. I was praying, if
Speaker 1: Donald goes to Minnesota, maybe Shanahan goes, get over here
Speaker 1: for a year. It's like, to me, it's so obvious,
Speaker 1: especially if you're justin fields and you're thinking to yourself,
Speaker 1: I've had a defensive culture. I have a defensive coach.
Speaker 1: Just watch the league, watch what's happening. Go to an
Speaker 1: offensive coach, Mac Jones, say what you want. He played
Speaker 1: high school in Jacksonville. He'll be close to family, you know,
Speaker 1: he can kind of reboot the emotional part of the sport.
Speaker 1: I got mom and dad around. And also it's an
Speaker 1: offensive coach. They've spent a shit ton of money in
Speaker 1: Jacksonville on offense. The last several years. It may not work,
Speaker 1: but it's a better environment for him than defensive driven
Speaker 1: Belichick in New England. If Justin Field really chose Pittsburgh,
Speaker 1: you got Russell Wilson, who you know and I know
Speaker 1: is gonna get you know, quarterback one snaps first day
Speaker 1: of practice. And the second thing is it's a defensive
Speaker 1: culture that once against overspends for a linebacker. So I
Speaker 1: didn't that part of it. I'm thinking when I read
Speaker 1: that Justin Fields had options, I'm like, I'd like to
Speaker 1: know the other options because if one of them was
Speaker 1: an offensive coach, I take it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call bs on the options. I don't know.
Speaker 2: The Shanahan guys don't like him because in that offense,
Speaker 2: decision making accuracy really matter. They're not looking for these
Speaker 2: easy plays. Atlanta became a Shanahan McVeigh operation that they
Speaker 2: wanted no part of a field. They could have got
Speaker 2: fields for way cheaper than the money they gave. This
Speaker 2: is a guy coming off an achilles, so that they're
Speaker 2: not that into him. Now here's the one thing with
Speaker 2: Russell Wilson, I'm with you everything OTA's training camp. He's
Speaker 2: the number one quarterback, not even debatable, but the fan
Speaker 2: base and his equity in that operation. He's making a
Speaker 2: lot of money for himself, but the Steelers are in
Speaker 2: for one point two million dollars and if you're a fan,
Speaker 2: that that division's really hard. He's dinking and duncan early listen.
Speaker 2: It's not like Justin Fields has been awesome when he's played.
Speaker 2: But at least hey young, there's some hope. Arthur Smith,
Speaker 2: I think his leash with just people that are and
Speaker 2: the Steelers have one of the biggest fan base. I've
Speaker 2: seen this Russell Wilson situation in the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: If it's going well, great, but if it's not, it's
Speaker 2: not like we're in for him for a lot of money.
Speaker 2: Let's let's see what we got in the young kid.
Speaker 2: We brought over Arthur Smith, who resurrected Tannehill's career, and
Speaker 2: let's face it, Tannehill good athlete, not near the athlete.
Speaker 2: Justin Fields is decent arm not near that arm. And
Speaker 2: sometimes you can't resurrect you can't make a guy a
Speaker 2: really good player. But at least there's hope that maybe
Speaker 2: there's something there. And they have both these guys on
Speaker 2: one year contracts. So the Fields thing is if this
Speaker 2: isn't going well early, like they can't afford in that
Speaker 2: conference to start one to three or two and four.
Speaker 2: So I wonder the Russell thing, he better start fast, Well,
Speaker 2: you better start fast?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Well, Baltimore's defense and Cleveland's defense Browns,
Speaker 1: especially at home, are top ten defenses in the league,
Speaker 1: top five. So my takeaway is if Russell goes on
Speaker 1: a two game slide and just think and dunks it
Speaker 1: with pickins, the fan base will be And it's not
Speaker 1: that Pittsburgh's reactionary. Again I thought, I do think there's
Speaker 1: elements here that work for Russell and justin Fields. You
Speaker 1: have a star number one, two nice backs. You don't
Speaker 1: have to get in shootouts. You can. You can score
Speaker 1: twenty three points in Pittsburgh and win nine games. That
Speaker 1: defense is going to hold a lot of teams in
Speaker 1: regular season. They should be good, Ondy, they'd be very good.
Speaker 1: They went and paid for Queen, another top linebacker, so
Speaker 1: they've got elements here. And by the way, they've always
Speaker 1: played Burrow close and in that division, those games are
Speaker 1: low scoring and tight, so you don't have to get
Speaker 1: in shootouts. So Justin fields and Russell should I mean again,
Speaker 1: you get to twenty six points, you win games in
Speaker 1: that division. But it is a defensive culture.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: They're number one in the NFL and defensive spending by
Speaker 1: thirty million and second lowest on offense. So it's just
Speaker 1: like you're both. Russell. I get it, because I do
Speaker 1: think it is a big brand. He's into that stuff. Steelers, Packers,
Speaker 1: those are big brands for Justin. I'm hoping this was
Speaker 1: the only team that wanted him because if you had
Speaker 1: multiple choices and some were offensive coaches. Because I'll give
Speaker 1: you an example of this, and I'll shift to the
Speaker 1: Viking because I think Kevin O'Connell's really smart, really sharp guy. Vikings. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So people ask me, who who do you think is
Speaker 1: going to make it and not make it? And I say,
Speaker 1: I think Kayleb Williams is kind of in the Andrew lock.
Speaker 1: It'll work to some degree because he's just so damn good.
Speaker 1: Plus they bring Keenan Allen over Dj Moore. Those are
Speaker 1: two big time receivers they've got. They've Gerald Everett and
Speaker 1: Cole Kment. Those are very above average tight ends. They
Speaker 1: have a left tackle. They like offensive line is not chaos.
Speaker 1: It's okay. They'll probably put some draft capital into it. Montes' sweat,
Speaker 1: Jalen Johnson, There's some dudes there, and it's not a
Speaker 1: great defensive division, so Caleb should be able to move
Speaker 1: the change. It's not the AFC North, it's the NFC North,
Speaker 1: which is offense packers. You know. In fact, you could
Speaker 1: argue Chicago's got the best defensive personnel now with Montes'
Speaker 1: sweat deal and how he played. So my takeaway is
Speaker 1: when people ask me who's going to be the second quarterback,
Speaker 1: that the second best quarterback in this draft is whoever
Speaker 1: Minnesota gets Jesus John Elie running back, Aaron Jones, left tackle,
Speaker 1: star receiver, tight end, offensive coach who won a game
Speaker 1: with Josh Dobbs without a practice. I kind of feel
Speaker 1: I've come to the conclusion over all these years about
Speaker 1: every fifth year we get a quarterback. You know again,
Speaker 1: I think Caleb is Andrew Luck. They're just gonna win
Speaker 1: some games. They're just different. And then it's basically who
Speaker 1: lands in mud and who lands, you know, on a
Speaker 1: clean surface. I tend to think if JJ McCarthy falls
Speaker 1: to like ten eleven, twelve and Minnesota's around there, and
Speaker 1: I don't love JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 2: I think he'd work well. I think. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you saw. I mean, there was a lot happening
Speaker 2: this weekend. Minnesota traded some second round picks to get
Speaker 2: another first round pick, and a lot of people think,
Speaker 2: remember the Eagles did this a long time ago when
Speaker 2: they used capital to get up to get Carson Wentz.
Speaker 2: They get up to get JJ McCarthy. Who if you
Speaker 2: just watch him on the surface of what he is
Speaker 2: right now, you go, that's a second third round pick.
Speaker 2: But the factor in he's twenty years old. There are
Speaker 2: a lot of positive things. I think, you know, I
Speaker 2: saw Lanceerline tweeting about this. The more in depth you
Speaker 2: study him, there's stuff to like. Big picture like that,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of room to grow. But Colin, I
Speaker 2: don't think he wouldn't even start right away.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: They signed Sam Donald a ten million dollars and they
Speaker 2: would give him almost the ability. Sam's proven high character guy.
Speaker 2: People love him. It's one of those perfect things. I
Speaker 2: think they kind of envy what the Chiefs did years
Speaker 2: ago to let Patrick Mahomes take a deep breath and
Speaker 2: I'm not saying J. J. McCarthy would become Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 2: by any means, but historically a lot of guys in
Speaker 2: the NFL had success when they didn't get thrown into
Speaker 2: the action. You know, you kind of get to learn
Speaker 2: to be a pro. And that's where Minnesota, like Caleb
Speaker 2: is not gonna get that. He's gonna get thrown into
Speaker 2: the action. But you could argue, and I wrote this down,
Speaker 2: usually when you're the number one overall pick, I would
Speaker 2: say the last if we just went over the last
Speaker 2: twenty years, you go to an awful team. Peyton Manning,
Speaker 2: Matt Stafford, Trevor Lawrence, Andrew Luck went to a team
Speaker 2: that did have like Reggie Wayne was on at Robert Mathis.
Speaker 2: They had been winning, but they weren't great. It was
Speaker 2: more his greatness. You could argue this Bears team is
Speaker 2: one of the best rosters the number one pick has
Speaker 2: been to in decades.
Speaker 1: So they have five players mean Montese sweat. People bitched
Speaker 1: about that trade for a second round or he's better
Speaker 1: than any second round. Arguably it's going to be in
Speaker 1: this draft. DJ Moore, Keenan Allen, Jalen Johnson. Those are
Speaker 1: elite players. I mean, I mean my question, now, does
Speaker 1: Carolina have one now that burns this trade?
Speaker 2: They don't have a seven. So that's a good example.
Speaker 2: Usually you go to a team like the Carolina Panthers
Speaker 2: where you got no shot and most guys are not
Speaker 2: Peyton Manning. They can't overcome it and they just get destroyed.
Speaker 2: Caleb actually got pretty lucky. This all kind of worked out.
Speaker 2: Ryan Poles, he got off to a slow start the
Speaker 2: Chase Claypool move, but has made a lot of really
Speaker 2: good moves. Now there's a lot of talent and they
Speaker 2: have an infrastructure for a young quarterback. Right like you
Speaker 2: said with Minnesota a couple of years ago, they were
Speaker 2: a legitimate playoff team, a lot of talent on the team.
Speaker 2: That's a fantastic spot for a young quarterback to go.
Speaker 2: So not all teams are created equal. When they draft
Speaker 2: Zach Wilson, he was probably gonna be bad no matter what.
Speaker 2: But he had no shot, e really none.
Speaker 1: Well, you bring up a good point. So the Vikings
Speaker 1: trade up. So the Vikings done a couple things. They
Speaker 1: went and signed in free agency a couple of B
Speaker 1: levels defensive players. So their take is listen, this is
Speaker 1: about the quarterback. We're not gonna spend too much money,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna go a little bit like Houston did
Speaker 1: last year Nick Casario's first free agency period. They got
Speaker 1: be guys, character guys, b guys, hard working guys, good
Speaker 1: in the locker room guys. Then they make the tray
Speaker 1: that you pointed out. Now they have the eleven and
Speaker 1: the twenty three pick in the first round, and so
Speaker 1: I think what they're doing is they there's a guy
Speaker 1: they like. They're not gonna get Caleb, and they probably
Speaker 1: know they're not gonna get Drake May. But what they're think,
Speaker 1: I think to me, in your point, if you have
Speaker 1: the eleven and twenty three and you give up both
Speaker 1: to get to the seven, then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: that you can get to seven, you're not getting to one.
Speaker 1: You can get to seven and not have to give
Speaker 1: up more picks, then all of a sudden, that's probably
Speaker 1: in the JJ. I mean, you're gonna tell me the
Speaker 1: Chargers wouldn't go down from like a five to an
Speaker 1: eleven for the eleventh and twenty three because the Chargers
Speaker 1: have about four to five crucial needs they need another
Speaker 1: first round pick.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll give you one. What if you're the New
Speaker 2: England Patriots and you love Caleb and you love Jayden
Speaker 2: Daniels and you're just kind of on the other guys.
Speaker 2: You need a long way to go. You're resetting your franchise.
Speaker 2: You go, hey, eleven twenty three a couple seconds, that's
Speaker 2: a ton to just kind of retool the roster. Take
Speaker 2: a deep breath. Maybe you suck again next year or
Speaker 2: in position to get another quarterback. You never want to
Speaker 2: force the quarterback. Now Minnesota would be doing that with
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy, but I think they saw if you truly
Speaker 2: like your guy and you have the conviction, what does
Speaker 2: it matter. I'll never forget. I've said this countless times
Speaker 2: of the Jets. Example, the Jets hit on a ton
Speaker 2: of players, but they whiffed on the quarterback. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can hit on a million players if you whiff on
Speaker 2: the quarterback. But if you get the right guy and
Speaker 2: they are already lucky enough to have they already have pieces.
Speaker 2: They have a good left tackle, they have excellent wide receivers,
Speaker 2: they have a good coaching staff. I mean flores is
Speaker 2: their defensive coordinator. Yeah, right with go with Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 2: So they're in a little like the Chiefs. When's the
Speaker 2: last time they had a homegrown quarterback? Most of my life,
Speaker 2: it's been patchwork, right, trading for Brett Favre, signing Kirk
Speaker 2: Cousins from another team. The value of finding your own
Speaker 2: guy and having him forever will always work in sports.
Speaker 2: That's ultimately what fans want, and that's what gms and
Speaker 2: team builders want. So I would expect them to make
Speaker 2: a huge trade right around the draft, that's not on
Speaker 2: Draft night.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really like Minnesota's future. And again I'll say it,
Speaker 1: I felt this year way about three years ago with Stefanski.
Speaker 1: I thought, we're looking at a great coach. He just
Speaker 1: he needs to get equity in that building because they're
Speaker 1: always cileing cycling through coaches. I think Kevin O'Connell is Stefanski.
Speaker 1: You're going to have a coach of the year guy.
Speaker 1: When you can take a quarterback without a practice and
Speaker 1: he's not gifted, he's Josh stops and win an NFL game.
Speaker 1: That's that is McVeigh level stuff. And McVeigh, by the way,
Speaker 1: has told people, you know, they called him the tall
Speaker 1: McVeigh when he went to Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, he drafted by Belichick right once upon a
Speaker 2: time as a quarterback. I think when you look at Stefanski,
Speaker 2: for example, he's a really good I think he's finished out.
Speaker 2: I mean to what he did this year was remarkable.
Speaker 2: In Minnesota, it's pretty clear like they have solid ownership.
Speaker 2: They stuck with Spielman and Zimmer for a while. They're
Speaker 2: all in on these guys, like it doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: they're really meddlers where the Browns, like Stefanski's proven to
Speaker 2: be pretty good. Does it feel like them hiring Mike
Speaker 2: Vrabel to be a consultant is more of an owner move. Now, Listen,
Speaker 2: I like Mike Vrabel. I would have hire him to
Speaker 2: be my head coach. But that's having that guy around.
Speaker 2: When you got Stefanski, who I haven't read, he's got
Speaker 2: a contract extension anywhere. That's classic owner just doing a
Speaker 2: little too much.
Speaker 1: Well. Also the owner's business, if I am right here,
Speaker 1: is heavy.
Speaker 2: Buffet suing them.
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Speaker 1: I thought about this, let's pivot to this. Aaron Donald retires.
Speaker 1: So the two best defensive lineman I've ever seen are
Speaker 1: Reggie White Aaron Donald. Just you couldn't block them one
Speaker 1: on one. Even last year. I thought Aaron anytime anybody
Speaker 1: singularly blocked him, he was a problem. He was disruptive,
Speaker 1: So I thought he had a really good year last year,
Speaker 1: and then I think Lawrence Taylor is the third that again,
Speaker 1: on the defensive front, there's been a lot of great
Speaker 1: pass rushers, but just to me lt Reggie Aaron Donald.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting I was thinking about this, John, is
Speaker 1: that one of the advantages and disadvantages to the NFL
Speaker 1: now as the money's incredible, The Rams are paying guards
Speaker 1: what people played quarterbacks, people paid quarterbacks ten years ago.
Speaker 1: They're paying Dotson and the other guy, I forget his
Speaker 1: name off the top of my head. The Rams. They're
Speaker 1: paying two guards huge money. And so the world's changed.
Speaker 1: The good news about this in the NFL is that
Speaker 1: it used to be that Aaron Donald ten years ago
Speaker 1: would have to play another contract to have kind of
Speaker 1: generational money, and he doesn't need to anymore. Ten years
Speaker 1: you're out. And what that means is, and I've said
Speaker 1: this before, I wouldn't allow hitting until the eighth grade.
Speaker 1: Eighth then high school you can hit. So you want
Speaker 1: to shrink the window. And then if guy, if interior linemen,
Speaker 1: and that's a lot of the concussions tight ends if
Speaker 1: those guys can retire without a fourth contract. Third, what
Speaker 1: it does, John, it shrinks the hit window, you know,
Speaker 1: from like seventeen years to fourteen or nineteen years to thirteen.
Speaker 1: And when I looked at Aaron Donald, I thought, he
Speaker 1: just you and I know he has two years minimum.
Speaker 1: It's like Jay Wright retiring from Villanova. He's got like
Speaker 1: three final fours left and he's like, I'm out. I'm
Speaker 1: not into this transfer stuff. I looked at Aaron donaland retiring,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of a sign of the times that
Speaker 1: those interior linemen now are like, listen, man, I'm gonna golf.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave with all my faculties. I've got my hips,
Speaker 1: my legs. That's what it kind of. It wasn't anything
Speaker 1: anti Rams, anti McVeigh, because they loved him, and I
Speaker 1: really think he had a great year and I think
Speaker 1: he liked playing with all their young guys. What it
Speaker 1: felt like to me is this is the new league.
Speaker 1: You don't need a fourth or a fifth contract, and
Speaker 1: you leave the sport healthier.
Speaker 2: And it's not easy to walk away from thirty million
Speaker 2: dollars a year, right, I mean, now many humans do. It.
Speaker 2: Isn't Jason Kelce fall into the same umbrella. Both these
Speaker 2: guys have flirted with retirement. Now for a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Both of them are still Pro Bowl, all pro level players.
Speaker 2: The money obviously in the NFL, if you're a high
Speaker 2: end player, I mean, like you said, guards, you're making
Speaker 2: seventeen eighteen, nineteen million dollars years crazy, that's nuts. Though
Speaker 2: you could argue with the amount of elite defensive tackles
Speaker 2: their value has gone up. True, and you get overpaid
Speaker 2: in free agency. But I think Kelsey and Donald fall
Speaker 2: under the umbrella. This isn't a random emotional decision because
Speaker 2: they had thought about it before, and I think now
Speaker 2: we look back at Aaron Donald. Obviously he got a
Speaker 2: huge raise last year and got some guaranteed money. But
Speaker 2: I think this was really I can't even imagine. I've
Speaker 2: heard Jason Kelsey talk about like the pain he feels
Speaker 2: on Monday and Tuesday getting out of bed. Hell, I've
Speaker 2: heard George Kittle talk about he really valued, like most
Speaker 2: elite players really value practice because that's how they keep
Speaker 2: dialed in for Sunday, and sometimes it can be very
Speaker 2: difficult to feel good by Wednesday. Yes, right, you're done.
Speaker 2: If you play a you know, a cross country game,
Speaker 2: you're done at one o'clock in the afternoon. I mean
Speaker 2: that is that is several days and these guys are
Speaker 2: still and these guys are the cold tubs, the sawn as,
Speaker 2: they're doing everything humanly possible. The game has definitely, you know,
Speaker 2: softens the wrong way because big hits still happen in
Speaker 2: terms of the speed in which people are running, but
Speaker 2: the violence on the defense of an offensive line has
Speaker 2: not changed, and the strength and the speed of these
Speaker 2: individuals have never been right the size of Trent Williams
Speaker 2: and Tyron Smith and these guys. I mean, look at
Speaker 2: Jalen Carter last year. You got a guy six five
Speaker 2: three and ten pounds who can run like a linebacker.
Speaker 2: And more and more of these guys are coming into
Speaker 2: the league. So Aaron Donald, I do think picture it's
Speaker 2: a blow to the Rams. I mean, this is one
Speaker 2: of their better players. No one could have been more
Speaker 2: happy than Kyle Shanahan because they don't have very good
Speaker 2: guards and they can't block that guy. So's I still
Speaker 2: like the Rams, But anytime we talked about this with
Speaker 2: Fletcher Cox and Kelsey, it is hard to replace stalwart players.
Speaker 2: I think Aaron's a little quieter, but just have a
Speaker 2: guy the lead by example, that's hard to replace. It
Speaker 2: really is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the good news they drafted Kobe Turner
Speaker 1: wake Forest Kid third round. He ended up having a
Speaker 1: tremendous year. But I think they're going to have to
Speaker 1: readdress the defensive line. In fact, I think they'll probably
Speaker 1: take an edge rusher for their first pick from UCLA.
Speaker 1: That's my guess about where he'll fall. They have to
Speaker 1: address that they need a defensive end, an edge rusher,
Speaker 1: and now they need another defensive tackle. So I watched
Speaker 1: the final episode of the Dynasty and listen, I have
Speaker 1: Jeff Benedict on my show That Heard Tomorrow inn FS one.
Speaker 1: So everybody knows that the Crafts gave really good access
Speaker 1: and so it was a pro craft documentary, but we
Speaker 1: also know that Michael Jordan and Michael Jordan's documentary, it
Speaker 1: was a pro mj documentary, right, Like, you to get access,
Speaker 1: you're going to lean some way. And I mean you
Speaker 1: could tell in The Three Ring Circus by Jeff Pearlman,
Speaker 1: the book you know, so, I mean, and he did
Speaker 1: exhaustive research, but it wasn't the most Kobe friendly book, right,
Speaker 1: Like you understand where access is denied and where it
Speaker 1: comes from and that's not a criticism on Jeff or
Speaker 1: anybody that does it. You got to you can have
Speaker 1: five hundred sources. You need talkers, you need storytellers. You're
Speaker 1: getting information that nobody has and that can be damaging
Speaker 1: to people. So but as I watched the Dynasty, my
Speaker 1: take my whole takeaway was Okay, Kobe Shack, dynasty ugly ending,
Speaker 1: MJ Bulls ugly ending, Brady Belichick ugly ending. You know
Speaker 1: who didn't Duncan and Popovich, and nobody's making a documentary
Speaker 1: out of it. The truth is is that almost all die,
Speaker 1: even the Heatles. Lebron just leaves d Wade, Jimmy Johnson
Speaker 1: at the end with Jerry Jones, is that there's two
Speaker 1: absolute truisms with dynasties. Hard work builds it, resilience maintains it,
Speaker 1: and eventually credit ruins it all of them. You know,
Speaker 1: Jimmy wants more credit than Jerry and deserved it. Kobe
Speaker 1: wanted more than Shack, whether he deserved it or not.
Speaker 1: The Lakers, I mean, at one point, O'Reilly, Phil Jackson,
Speaker 1: Jerry west All in the building. It was a battle
Speaker 1: for credit. All of them brilliant. But as I watched
Speaker 1: the dynasty. I thought to myself, everybody wants their narrative.
Speaker 1: But Bill didn't do himself a favor when he still
Speaker 1: wouldn't be open and clean on the Malcolm Butler thing.
Speaker 1: So Bill won them the Super Bowl against the Rams.
Speaker 1: He literally shut mcpagh down. It was a coaching this match.
Speaker 1: He lost it against the Eagles when he wouldn't play Butler,
Speaker 1: and I really thought there was a moment I thought
Speaker 1: Bill that this is not the time to be stubborn,
Speaker 1: and he just wouldn't talk about it, and none of
Speaker 1: the players knew. Had Bill given an answer for that,
Speaker 1: I think I would have looked at it and thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I get it. If you said the guy
Speaker 1: had five dog days of practice totally distracted, wasn't coaching,
Speaker 1: I'd buy into it. But to a player in that thing,
Speaker 1: everyone was like, yeah, we got screwed by our coach.
Speaker 1: And that was and they had to say that on camera,
Speaker 1: all of them. And they'll see Belichick again down the road.
Speaker 1: So that was my takeaway is I know where it's
Speaker 1: leaning on this. I get it. But Bill in the
Speaker 1: last three years needs a new pr agent. He's terrible.
Speaker 1: He really just can't get out of his way.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard, you know. Bill. Throughout the documentary
Speaker 2: when crazy things would happen, he basically stayed on character
Speaker 2: to as he did in his press conference, even talking
Speaker 2: about the Tom Brady right, shorting Tom Brady's career, he said,
Speaker 2: that's my job. It's the right thing to do, and
Speaker 2: he's not totally wrong, but he would never say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I probably regret it. I wish he would never. There's
Speaker 2: not a human element which he might say if he
Speaker 2: was having a beer with Ernie Adams, right, or yeah,
Speaker 2: we probably shouldn't have done that. He was never going
Speaker 2: to give that up because ultimately the logic behind that,
Speaker 2: because the whole part, like this documentary, is ultimately really
Speaker 2: able to cap off that Tom ultimately leaves, goes has
Speaker 2: success and they fall.
Speaker 1: Apart and it ends ugly.
Speaker 2: But he made the I was slipping around channels last
Speaker 2: night and Jerry Rice's football life was on. Bill Walsh
Speaker 2: was the general manager at the time in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: nine and told Jerry you're not coming back, We're not
Speaker 2: resigning you. And Jerry the next year had over one
Speaker 2: hundred catches for the Raiders, still planned pretty well, and
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick wouldn't you say, basically copied everything Walsh did
Speaker 2: in terms of player personnel, getting rid of guys a
Speaker 2: year or two early. He wasn't. Historically, Tom's just an
Speaker 2: all time outlier. He shorted his career even way than
Speaker 2: they ended up, Like when they signed Jimmy Garoppolo or
Speaker 2: you know, yah elevated or drafted him in the second round.
Speaker 2: It just backfired every time, like John Elway did that
Speaker 2: the Peyton Manning, remember when he made him get a
Speaker 2: pay cut that last year and it was kind of
Speaker 2: football is that there's a lot of just animosity. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of tension a whole to me a huge
Speaker 2: theme and that whole documentary and this anyone that's followed
Speaker 2: the Patriots. Everyone kind of on their toes, including Tom.
Speaker 2: And when Tom suspended and Jimmy has a little success
Speaker 2: in that first game against Arizona. Tom's no dummy. He's
Speaker 2: seen every guy he's ever played with get wally, pipped, replaced, cut, traded, right,
Speaker 2: And that is the environment that Belichick. Most guys don't
Speaker 2: really harbor that environment anymore in the NFL. It doesn't.
Speaker 2: It exists because it's the nature of the business. But
Speaker 2: if you walk in the Rams or the Niners, and
Speaker 2: you're like Fred Warner is not constantly looking over his shoulder,
Speaker 2: but every guy with the Patriots, Edelman still talks about
Speaker 2: this day. We were always just you had to stay
Speaker 2: dialed in, you had to stay focused. You knew Bill
Speaker 2: at any moment. And the only reason it worked is
Speaker 2: because they had Tom and he was the first in
Speaker 2: line and followed the rules and set the tone. It
Speaker 2: doesn't really work, so you could argue their whole thing
Speaker 2: was kind of somewhat of an outlier situation that we'll
Speaker 2: never see again. I mean, he's constantly screaming at Tom
Speaker 2: in meetings. Now Andy coaches mahomes heart. He's not really
Speaker 2: yell or in a screamer, So it's hard to like
Speaker 2: comp those two. But I just don't think you're gonna
Speaker 2: see You're never gonna see a team win six Super
Speaker 2: Bowls over twenty years, Like that's probably not gonna happen
Speaker 2: again with the same quarter.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting about Andy Reid Belichick. He wanted
Speaker 1: control of personnel. Their drafts went into the tank. Pete
Speaker 1: Carroll for several years wanted more control. At one point,
Speaker 1: Home Grown in Seattle had control. Andy's the one guy,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's Brett Veitch. He respects him. Andy's the
Speaker 1: one guy that in Philadelphia, Howie you do it? Or
Speaker 1: pre Howie it was, what's the name?
Speaker 2: They had Tom Hecker, they had some other guys.
Speaker 1: And in Kansas City, Andy is really about the art
Speaker 1: of play calling and play design. You know, Sean Payton
Speaker 1: likes a little control in his personnel with Mickey Loomis,
Speaker 1: but they work together. Andy's really an outlier. He doesn't
Speaker 1: appear to have that thirst or need to have a
Speaker 1: say in the groceries. He'll just make dinner. And I
Speaker 1: think he's the classic. You know. It's like there are
Speaker 1: probably chefs that have to get all the ingredients, probably most,
Speaker 1: but there probably is a chef somewhere that just you
Speaker 1: give me the ingredients. I love the art and the
Speaker 1: challenge of making something amazing with what I walk into
Speaker 1: a kitchen and inherit. And I think one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I do think Kansas City can sustain this beyond
Speaker 1: Mahomes's talent, I don't feel there's good I was even
Speaker 1: sitting down in Mexico with the President of the Chiefs.
Speaker 1: Happened to be Unmar Dominic. Yeah, just again, guys will
Speaker 1: have to edit this tall, dark haired Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think's last name is Dominic.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Andy doesn't seem they all one guy does ops,
Speaker 1: one guy is personnel, one guy's coach, Spag does defense.
Speaker 1: Mahomes is the great pupil. There's a real happy balance
Speaker 1: the Hunt family. I was asking the gentleman about the
Speaker 1: Hunt family, and I think I could say this, I'm
Speaker 1: not breaching any you know, confidence here. He just basically said,
Speaker 1: they're great. They support you, they're aware of what you're doing,
Speaker 1: but they don't meddle. They really have a connectivity to
Speaker 1: the league and Goodell and Craft and other owners, but
Speaker 1: they kind of let us run the business. You don't
Speaker 1: get the ego in Kansas City, which you know, Dallas
Speaker 1: had some and New England developed some. So that's why
Speaker 1: I think Kansas City is unique is that Andy's just like, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm inheriting. I love the art of
Speaker 1: the play design and the play calling, and I don't
Speaker 1: I think that's rare. In my opinion.
Speaker 2: Andy told me the combine that it's just impossible to
Speaker 2: do both roles in twenty twenty four one. There's just
Speaker 2: way too much going on in college to keep track
Speaker 2: of anyone more than ever with the transfer portal. It's
Speaker 2: harder even for the scouts now because of the movement
Speaker 2: of all the prospects before you, like this guy transferred,
Speaker 2: probably something off now just normal elite players, constant movement,
Speaker 2: keeping track, And I think more and more the league
Speaker 2: is turning that way of coaches realizing I don't have
Speaker 2: the bandwidth, and the coaches the attempt to run it
Speaker 2: over the next really starting at the combine till the
Speaker 2: draft end up failing and get mad a couple of
Speaker 2: years later. Well, I made an emotional decision because I
Speaker 2: knew the head coach and he told me something about
Speaker 2: this guy, and I overvalued him. When my scout that
Speaker 2: had watched him for two years and my GM who
Speaker 2: had been on for a year and have been through
Speaker 2: these schools, we're telling me, yeah, that's probably not the
Speaker 2: best idea. But this always gets back to the highest
Speaker 2: guy in the ORG chart is always going to be
Speaker 2: the coach. He makes them motion, so ultimately when he
Speaker 2: gets emotional about it, he always wins out. And he's
Speaker 2: got to the point, I mean he's now in the
Speaker 2: Bill waltsh category three super Bowls, an all time legend,
Speaker 2: go into the Hall of Fame. He doesn't need to
Speaker 2: like have his ego stroke the I pick this guy
Speaker 2: or you picked it. It's a we operation, which honestly
Speaker 2: is polar opposite of the way the Spurs did it forever.
Speaker 2: It was always Popovich's way. Belichick did it forever. Some
Speaker 2: of those old school baseball coaches, Tommy Lasorda, Bochi's somewhat
Speaker 2: of an outlier. He still pre hands on when it matters,
Speaker 2: but it's much more. And listen, I think collaborative nature
Speaker 2: and football can be a little overrated. Not everyone has
Speaker 2: to be happy, go lucky. This isn't your run of
Speaker 2: the mill insurance company where people get screamed at. That's
Speaker 2: part of the business. But you do look at the volume.
Speaker 2: You're not texting Hey John, I think you should hit
Speaker 2: on these three things today, or hey Shannon, you should
Speaker 2: have this guy on.
Speaker 1: That's not the way the world works.
Speaker 2: Just hire the right people and let them have success
Speaker 2: or not, and then you figure it out. And Andy's
Speaker 2: done that for a while now. And I don't think
Speaker 2: it's random that in this day and age, obviously hit
Speaker 2: on the quarterback. But like they hit on all these
Speaker 2: other players. Because Brett Veach is in charge. I mean
Speaker 2: before that, John Dorsey was in charge, and he just
Speaker 2: goes listen, all coats, the team you picked, the groceries
Speaker 2: make a great meal.
Speaker 1: Let's talk Jets. I actually thought they did something I
Speaker 1: really liked. So Tyrone Smith gives you about fourteen games
Speaker 1: a year now thirteen fourteen games and that's about it.
Speaker 1: But he's certainly got a year left in the tank.
Speaker 1: And when he does play last year, he just engulf's
Speaker 1: most ends. I watched a couple of Cowboy games last year.
Speaker 1: He gets his hands on you, it's still over. It's
Speaker 1: like Aaron Donald. He gets his hands on you, he
Speaker 1: gets you off balance, it's still over. But Tyrone can't
Speaker 1: give you. You're not going to give you seventeen games.
Speaker 1: He's not. He's going to give you thirteen. He may
Speaker 1: leave one early. But I thought it was really smart
Speaker 1: with the Jets, because first, it's a very good tackle draft.
Speaker 1: But generally it feels like to me, there are certain
Speaker 1: positions corner running back that can come in and play
Speaker 1: immediately if you can lock on a guy. I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of corners walk into this league Witherspoon Seattle.
Speaker 1: He could play Week one. You see running backs, it
Speaker 1: didn't take it. It doesn't take long for a running
Speaker 1: back hit. The whole gets through. McCaffrey just walks in
Speaker 1: and can play. Adrian Peterson walks in. But we see
Speaker 1: this every year. But mid round guys, mid round running
Speaker 1: backs Isaiah Pacheco seventh round can play tackle. Tight End
Speaker 1: and tackle are two positions that in college. You know,
Speaker 1: Iowa makes their tight ends block. That's why Iowa has
Speaker 1: so many damn tight ends in the NFL. They force you.
Speaker 1: Utah forces their tight ends to block. That's when when
Speaker 1: Dalton Kincaid was coming out, I talked to Jude Gms
Speaker 1: and they're like, you know a lot of these back
Speaker 1: twelve schools there, they're not asking guys to block Utah receivers.
Speaker 1: They're wider. Utah makes their tight ends block, well, so
Speaker 1: does Iowa. So tight ends one of those positions that
Speaker 1: even the great ones it takes a year to figure out.
Speaker 1: Oh crap, I'm getting thrown around. But left tackle, there's
Speaker 1: just not many great outside of the SEC. There's not
Speaker 1: many great edge rushers. I mean Pac twelve this year
Speaker 1: had maybe one or two and so I think Tyron
Speaker 1: Smith this year starts and by Thanksgiving the Jets still
Speaker 1: go draft to tackle with the first pick the tenth pick.
Speaker 1: But with Aaron's injury, you can't start a rookie left
Speaker 1: tackle in the NFL in that AFC. It would Buffalo's
Speaker 1: pass rush. So I actually thought the Jets this is
Speaker 1: one of those probably you know you're not gonna make
Speaker 1: money on this deal, right, but considering the injury Tyron,
Speaker 1: They're still going to draft the left tackle. I thought
Speaker 1: it was kind of a smart move by New York.
Speaker 2: They also traded for Morgan Moses, who I pulled up
Speaker 2: his NFL dot com page. He's missed like two games
Speaker 2: and ten years. So they get two tackles, a left
Speaker 2: tackle and a right tackle. That, let's face it, I
Speaker 2: do think there would be some pressure if you draft
Speaker 2: the guy and they've done this before with Beckton and
Speaker 2: it failed immediately and you get into a position where
Speaker 2: you're in trouble. I also think it allows them if
Speaker 2: they like another player a lot more early in the draft,
Speaker 2: they could take a tackle in the second or third round, yeah,
Speaker 2: and ease him in with I mean Tyrone Is if
Speaker 2: he would have been healthy. I think we'd be talking
Speaker 2: about him right with like Trent Williams as one of
Speaker 2: the better players the last twenty years at the position.
Speaker 2: He's just hurt a lot. But I think anytime, let's
Speaker 2: face it, Aaron win now mode two, right, these guys
Speaker 2: will get fired if this thing fails, no question, and
Speaker 2: that they could do all the right personnel moves and
Speaker 2: if aarons a show of themselves, they might be screwed
Speaker 2: no matter what. But you cannot. You just couldn't roll
Speaker 2: into the season with a shitty offensive.
Speaker 1: He get killed.
Speaker 2: He would not have so he would not have survived
Speaker 2: last year. I do think they are more equipped with
Speaker 2: these two tackles, and then you can also draft a
Speaker 2: tackle in the first two picks. You don't have to
Speaker 2: force it in the first round because what if romadons
Speaker 2: days there someone else to put with Garrett Wilson. Then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Okay, now you've got a running back,
Speaker 2: two wide receivers, brock Bowers, you know, more of an
Speaker 2: offensive weapon, and you feel comfortable having two veteran tackles
Speaker 2: and hopefully you know you can keep your interior offensive
Speaker 2: line play a little better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking at the first three rounds today.
Speaker 1: It is the best tackle draft I've ever seen. I've
Speaker 1: never seen it.
Speaker 2: I think you get a guy in the second round
Speaker 2: if you love a wide receiver or a Bowers or
Speaker 2: another player, Yeah, that you have as equal because there's
Speaker 2: gonna be depth there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Aaron come in, So I thought it was
Speaker 1: a good move. I just thought, you can't go into
Speaker 1: the season. I mean, Aaron's you know it when remember
Speaker 1: when Brady got hurt for about a year, he was
Speaker 1: pissy if you got near his knees, like he just
Speaker 1: didn't get these old quarterbacks coming off injuries they got no.
Speaker 1: I mean, Aaron's going to be sitting there. You know
Speaker 1: you can hear stuff. So I thought that's a smart movie.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it's interesting with Aaron though. You know,
Speaker 1: Aaron said something after the year. He says, we got
Speaker 1: to get this non football stuff, we got to get
Speaker 1: it out of the locker room. And I'm like, this week,
Speaker 1: two different stories won by a CNN reporter that Aaron denied.
Speaker 1: The other one the vice presidential nominee RFK puts Aaron's
Speaker 1: name out there. And my takeaway was, first of all,
Speaker 1: you are the company you keep you know, if you're
Speaker 1: going on Joe Rogan, if you're you know, if you're
Speaker 1: in discussions on podcasts or broadcasts with people who monitor
Speaker 1: ties headlines. That's not a knock on McAfee or Rogan.
Speaker 1: It's the business. Well, yeah, you're gonna be a topic,
Speaker 1: You're gonna get a headline. But the other thing is,
Speaker 1: you know with Aaron is that I kept thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: green Bay is laughing their ass off. Aaron goes. Usually
Speaker 1: when the star quarterback goes, it's a turbulent ear. I
Speaker 1: thought green Bay by the end of the year was
Speaker 1: better than were last year with Aaron, Jordan loves got
Speaker 1: all these young kids. And my take on that presidential
Speaker 1: nominee thing is, you know, green Bay sitting or thinking
Speaker 1: we told you like this, You're just gonna get headlines,
Speaker 1: not all negative. But I don't think you can have
Speaker 1: a non football locker room with Aaron. I just think
Speaker 1: this is who he is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would separate the two. I thought the CNN report,
Speaker 2: I mean a decade old Yeah, hearsay, that's it's insane.
Speaker 2: Didn't If I was Aaron Rodgers, I'd be fucking pissed,
Speaker 2: like half the people in the media tweeting like give
Speaker 2: me no one knows like that, that's extreme. The VP thing,
Speaker 2: it was like kind of believable because they're boys. That
Speaker 2: felt like Aaron, like, we're not doing quite enough. Remember
Speaker 2: when I took the pay cut, Like guy, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: I just rehabb my ass off, and we feel a
Speaker 2: little bit like the packers, like where are our moves?
Speaker 2: That's what that felt like, because I heard someone say this,
Speaker 2: and they were right. The VP doesn't pay fifty million
Speaker 2: dollars a year. He ain't gonna be the vice president.
Speaker 2: Rich people don't go into politics un till they get
Speaker 2: older and bored. Aaron's still young and rich, and he
Speaker 2: ain't leaving the NFL. But that did feel a little
Speaker 2: bit Green Bay ish, a little different tactic, but like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, come on, Aaron, that would have been
Speaker 2: one if you respected your employer, you just would have
Speaker 2: just tweeted out like this is the stupidest report ever, guys.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see it. OTAs because he did
Speaker 2: it about the Sandy hook, which obviously is a much
Speaker 2: more powerful headline than being the VP. A lot of
Speaker 2: people making fun of them, but it's also like you
Speaker 2: do like you're making a lot of paid a lot
Speaker 2: of money. They've gone all in on you. They threw
Speaker 2: you a lifeline because you wanted out of Green Bay,
Speaker 2: and then what happened after that report, They've made some moves.
Speaker 2: It did feel a little bit I couldn't do that,
Speaker 2: you know, the source, gymnastics, the reporter if, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but it did feel like, well, he might have had
Speaker 2: a little something behind that one.
Speaker 1: He did it with a Jeopardy. Remember he flirted in
Speaker 1: the off season with Jeopardy. We don't think he wanted
Speaker 1: to do Jeopardy. That's not what he wanted to do.
Speaker 1: But I think to your point.
Speaker 2: Does Jeopardy pay fifty million? I don't think it does.
Speaker 2: I think it pays well, but not fifty.
Speaker 1: It's probably eight to ten, not fifty. Yeah, it's Sam Darnold. Yeah. Essentially,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a look at the free agency as
Speaker 1: a whole. And one of the things I've always liked
Speaker 1: about the NFL is that it's always sort of evolving,
Speaker 1: and usually there's a team that just goes all in
Speaker 1: and they win quote hash marks, they win free agents,
Speaker 1: and those teams have been burned so bad. I mean
Speaker 1: Belichick spent a fortune two years ago. They didn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't get anything out of it.
Speaker 2: Receivers were some of those players he hated immediately.
Speaker 1: Matthew Judah was like the only one Hunter Henry a little.
Speaker 1: But I really thought it was a smart free agency.
Speaker 1: I thought, I'm most of the good team. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: you know, just take the rams, which because I watch
Speaker 1: everything they do, and I'm like, they paid for a guard.
Speaker 1: Reason being they took their guard from TCU. They'll move
Speaker 1: him to center. So now they're Stafford older quarterback Niners,
Speaker 1: their big rival, great pass rush. They basically solidified the
Speaker 1: middle of the O line. Matt can step up and move,
Speaker 1: but older quarterbacks don't like that interior pressure. And then
Speaker 1: they went and got a corner and then Garoppolo and
Speaker 1: they did just a lot of b guys what Houston
Speaker 1: did last year. I do feel free agency there was
Speaker 1: a time when when gms love to win it. But
Speaker 1: a lot of these young gms, I think they're very thoughtful.
Speaker 1: I think they're a aggressive, but thoughtfully aggressive. I didn't
Speaker 1: think anybody. I didn't see a single move. Maybe you
Speaker 1: did that, I thought, holy shit, that's a Now I
Speaker 1: did think Gabe Davis to the Jags. It was a
Speaker 1: little rich. I think it was like thirty three million,
Speaker 1: thirty nine. I thought that was a little rich.
Speaker 2: In mind, I think you had to have a contingency
Speaker 2: plan if Calvin Ridley had left and he got a
Speaker 2: little expensive.
Speaker 1: That was the only move. Even Kirk Cousins, I'm like,
Speaker 1: timeout Kirk's value in that division is substantial. If you
Speaker 1: put Kirk in the AFC Wes with Harbaugh, Herbert, Andy Mahomes,
Speaker 1: I'm not paying that money, but that money almost guarantees
Speaker 1: at least a wild card or division title. I didn't
Speaker 1: see a move. I hated Gabe Davis, little rich, Kirk Cousins,
Speaker 1: I'd like a little smaller number. Everything else felt right
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: And let's face it, I think the reflection too of
Speaker 2: this free agency is the money that's come into the NFL,
Speaker 2: the salary cap going up. Unless you sign these enormal
Speaker 2: miss quarterback contracts, Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson, most of these
Speaker 2: the Houston Texas. Let's say daneil Hunter just shatters his leg,
Speaker 2: is they gave him two years fifty million dollars. It
Speaker 2: doesn't hinder you for years to come. Once you give
Speaker 2: those enormous even Kirk Cousins. If he's bad, it'll hurts
Speaker 2: you initially, but it won't sink your franchise. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: think the Titans, Calvin Ridley, Tony Paul, Let's see what
Speaker 2: Will Elevis has. Let's see what he's got right, so
Speaker 2: we know and we'll pivot off him. I do think
Speaker 2: the Texans they are pretty well run operation right now.
Speaker 2: And I think what you know, he traded up last
Speaker 2: year for will Will Anderson, remember because they took CJ.
Speaker 2: Stroud and they traded up. Well, he immediately gets more
Speaker 2: draft capital making this this trade with Minnesota. Now he's
Speaker 2: got several second round picks, where a lot of GMS
Speaker 2: will tell you, obviously, if you hit on an Aaron
Speaker 2: Donald or a great player in the first round, it's
Speaker 2: but half the first rounders don't work, and you pay
Speaker 2: him first round money. The second round is the place
Speaker 2: where you find elite play all the time and half
Speaker 2: the league's Pro Bowl or second round, and you pay
Speaker 2: him nothing. Those second round picks are very, very valuable
Speaker 2: to NFL general managers, especially the picks like thirty five
Speaker 2: to fifty kind of that range, because you're finding the
Speaker 2: Deebo Samuels like high end players for a four year
Speaker 2: contract at about five million dollars, it's easily the best
Speaker 2: deal in the league, non like rookie quarterback contract. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you have a lot of younger gms. I mean,
Speaker 2: the day and age of some of these kind of
Speaker 2: curmudgeon guys that came up in the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: Are long gone.
Speaker 2: Most of these gms. I would imagine the average age
Speaker 2: of a GM is late forties, early fifties, and there
Speaker 2: are several GMS in their mid to late forties. So
Speaker 2: I think they just view the game differently, especially economically.
Speaker 2: They're not is beholden to we can't pay for this.
Speaker 2: We can't pay for this at the starting guards sixty million,
Speaker 2: that's what we're gonna pay sixteen million. Now, once you
Speaker 2: get that guy, he has to be a good player.
Speaker 2: Once you pay a premium to me for a guard
Speaker 2: or a linebacker, that guy then has to be a
Speaker 2: high end player, and if he is, you're fine. If
Speaker 2: he's at average, then you're kind of wasting money.
Speaker 1: So I didn't see a clear winner in this, although
Speaker 1: I do think the Bears getting Keenan Allen. The winner
Speaker 1: was Caleb Williams. Between DJ Moore, Caleb Williams, DJ Moore,
Speaker 1: Keenan Allen, Jerald Everett, Cole Comet and capable running backs.
Speaker 1: I'm like, and a good solid left tackle. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's pretty good as you As you mentioned earlier, Caleb
Speaker 1: Williams had a good week ND. That's a pretty good
Speaker 1: team offensively. Dallas is strange. It's a bad running back class.
Speaker 1: And Dallas really didn't make a big swing.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I thought they should have gotten Dereck Henry at the
Speaker 1: trade deadline last year. I thought Paulard de meis a
Speaker 1: kind of an average two. He's an off speed pitch.
Speaker 1: Paulard's not a one. Dallas tends to be insular. Jerry
Speaker 1: likes to validate his picks. They have always re signed
Speaker 1: their picks to a higher level than anybody else in
Speaker 1: the league. Dallas didn't do a ton. Now. They let
Speaker 1: go of Michael Gallup. We know they're going to pay
Speaker 1: seedy line and Micah Parsonson dec a lot of money
Speaker 1: over the next two years. But I thought to myself, Dallas,
Speaker 1: you know this has been my knock on them. They'll
Speaker 1: be pretty good, But I'm saying this, go look at
Speaker 1: Philadelphia's skill people. I mean from the tight ends, two backs,
Speaker 1: two receivers, Jalen Hurts a better offensive line than certainly Giants,
Speaker 1: So Saquon should succeed just because the Eagles have a
Speaker 1: better front than the Giants do and a better quarterback
Speaker 1: and weapons. So safeties can't crowd the box against the
Speaker 1: Eagles like they can against the Giants. So Saquon should
Speaker 1: be a hit. You start listing Dallas to skill people.
Speaker 1: You have a B plus quarterback. If CD Lamb twists
Speaker 1: an ankle, you have there is no elite players there
Speaker 1: like to me, I understand in free agency you overpay,
Speaker 1: but I look at Dallas as an injury away to
Speaker 1: see d Lamb as a lot of dependent and see
Speaker 1: on Dak.
Speaker 2: I think they have a Dak Prescott problem, not because
Speaker 2: he's some bad player, but because of his contract situation.
Speaker 2: He has the second highest cap hit in the league
Speaker 2: behind Deshaun Watson, sixty million dollars for this one year.
Speaker 2: That's taken up like twenty four percent of their salary cap.
Speaker 2: But the problem is you could extend him and get
Speaker 2: that number way down. But are you comfortable giving him
Speaker 2: a two hundred million dollar Russell Wilson extension. If he
Speaker 2: had shown you more the last two years when it mattered,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't hesitate. He would already have an extension, They
Speaker 2: would have had more wiggle room, and they would have
Speaker 2: been able to sign players. I think they're a little
Speaker 2: terrified to give him a huge extent. They can say
Speaker 2: whatever they want, and Jerry never stops talking. It's entertaining,
Speaker 2: but their actions are telling you everything. You know that
Speaker 2: they're at least hesitant. They may end up doing it,
Speaker 2: but they're at least for the first time thinking like
Speaker 2: this is are they going to play this year out
Speaker 2: on the sixty million dollar cont and just they can't
Speaker 2: be a one and done team in the playoffs anymore.
Speaker 2: And give this quarterback two hundred and fifty million dollars
Speaker 2: guaranteed money because ultimately Dak his last contract that he signed,
Speaker 2: how long ago, he was making forty million dollars and
Speaker 2: he has statistically played a lot better since what do
Speaker 2: you think he's asking for at minimum probably four or
Speaker 2: five years a couple hundred million, two hundred million dollars guaranteed.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the splits so? And I could be
Speaker 1: wrong on this. Dak has only won I think nine
Speaker 1: games in his career when he has under one hundred
Speaker 1: rushing yard support. I think that's the number. I did
Speaker 1: it last week on the show, and I don't have
Speaker 1: it in front of me, but there is an absolute.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have Mahomes in the Super Bowl leading
Speaker 1: the Chiefs in rushing. We have Josh Allen Lamar in
Speaker 1: big games leading the team in rushing. If Dak does
Speaker 1: not get one hundred yards rushing, his winning percentage is
Speaker 1: like thirty five. And I think it was he only
Speaker 1: has nine career wins when he has under one hundred
Speaker 1: yards rushing. I think that's that's the number. He's very dependent.
Speaker 1: Remember he broke into the league with a great run game,
Speaker 1: a great online yeah, and he was thirteen and three,
Speaker 1: and he really shocked the world. But then people get filmed,
Speaker 1: they see limitations, then he dips, then they get Amari Cooper.
Speaker 1: He goes back up. So between the O line, Zeke
Speaker 1: and Amari Cooper in his prime, Dak so was kind
Speaker 1: of needed elevation, whereas a Mahomes, we know this Mahomes
Speaker 1: elevates everybody. I mean, it's Travis Kelcey playing for eighty
Speaker 1: percent of the quarterbacks in this league, is a really
Speaker 1: good pro bowler. He's not Travis Kelsey's not this. So
Speaker 1: I just look at Dallas and I'm like, you have
Speaker 1: these numbers, they're all telling and it's a bad running
Speaker 1: back draft. I didn't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think they're with the you know, they've
Speaker 2: had success statistically, obviously not in the playoffs. McCarthy's not
Speaker 2: he can say whatever he wants about I want to
Speaker 2: run the ball more. Look at his history.
Speaker 1: He likes to pass.
Speaker 2: He did it with Aaron Rodgers, He's done it with
Speaker 2: Dak Prescott. Like, I just don't think he can say
Speaker 2: whatever he wants because that's coming from Jerry. He wants
Speaker 2: to throw the ball around the yard. And we've seen
Speaker 2: Dak in these spots now in the playof he's thrown
Speaker 2: to the other team. If you put Dak with one
Speaker 2: of the Shanahan guys will run first, Lafleur or Kyle
Speaker 2: and took the pressure off him, he would be much
Speaker 2: better situated. But McCarthy, because all of his success and
Speaker 2: the way I think he fundamentally views offensive football, spread
Speaker 2: it out and throw it around and Dak. Like you said,
Speaker 2: he's not only not Mahomes, he's not Josh Allen. He
Speaker 2: can't do like physically with Justin Herbert. He is much
Speaker 2: better to be a balanced quarterback. That's most guys. There's
Speaker 2: two or three guys. Do you feel good? Even Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 2: More likely he's gonna need some help. He's not gonna
Speaker 2: be able to carry you.
Speaker 1: Think about this, Think about what the rookie quarterback. Think
Speaker 1: of what Sam Darnald is in haring in Minnesota. An
Speaker 1: elite running back, an elite left tackle, the number one
Speaker 1: receiver Jordan Madison, a two Hackinson tight end, and an
Speaker 1: offensive a really clever offensive coach. Sam Darnald I think
Speaker 1: this year, if he stays healthy and they're kind of
Speaker 1: patient with him and they watch JJ McCarthy, Sam Donald
Speaker 1: could end up Not because he's brilliant. He's got one
Speaker 1: of the best. I mean, if I if we ranked
Speaker 1: left tackle, star receiver, two receiver, tight end, running back,
Speaker 1: they'd be up there at top sixty. Sam Darnold's gonna
Speaker 1: do a Baker. You're gonna look it up and go.
Speaker 1: Minnesota's in the playoffs. Not because Baker's great, although Bakers
Speaker 1: always had talent. Sam's had talent, but I think Darnald
Speaker 1: has a chance to be the Bakers story next year.
Speaker 1: Is just there's just too many good players here. I
Speaker 1: look at Dak and I think to myself, this Green
Speaker 1: Bay young and good, Detroit young and good. Here comes Minnesota,
Speaker 1: San Francisco rams I, Saquan Eagles. I my gut is
Speaker 1: in an offensive league, Dallas doesn't have enough punch. If
Speaker 1: I told you, ceedee lamb week eight goes down for
Speaker 1: a month and a half. This is not a playoff team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see if I mean, maybe they draft a
Speaker 2: wide receiver high. But you know, sometimes you hit on
Speaker 2: them and they becomes a flowers and sometimes they become
Speaker 2: Jalen Rager, right, or the dude the Chargers took. So
Speaker 2: it's it's a fifty to fifty coin flip ferguson the
Speaker 2: tight ends pretty damn good. But yeah, but you know, solid,
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I mean, they they are very, very dependent,
Speaker 2: and he's really on the two guys. And this is
Speaker 2: why financially, I wasn't shocked at all when they signed nobody.
Speaker 2: Dak takes twenty three percent. They're paying to Marcus Lawrence
Speaker 2: a time. They gotta pay CD, they gotta pay Micah Parsons.
Speaker 2: No one takes care of his own guys that he.
Speaker 1: Drafts like Jerry Jo's crazy.
Speaker 2: They if they had space, people would be lined up
Speaker 2: to go there, but they never have any space because
Speaker 2: he's overpaid. Now, luckily he's drafted pretty well, so a
Speaker 2: lot of Zach Martin's and Ceedee Lambs, and you know,
Speaker 2: you feel pretty good about a lot of the Michaeh Parsons.
Speaker 2: But you make a wrong decision on Zeke or all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you not only have no cap, you're
Speaker 2: missing like you don't have as many good players as
Speaker 2: you should. And now they lose Dan Quinn. Now they
Speaker 2: get Mike Zimmer, But I'd say Dan's a little more positive.
Speaker 2: Mike's a little more old school negative. I get why
Speaker 2: Jerry likes him because he was there in the heyday
Speaker 2: with Dion, but that's something to keep an eye on him.
Speaker 2: And right there are two of I would put them
Speaker 2: just on a game to game basis defense. No one
Speaker 2: knows more defensive football now that Belichick's out of the
Speaker 2: league than those two guys. For this new generation that
Speaker 2: they are, they're old school. They they're a lot to
Speaker 2: handle for the twenty three year old kids. Unless you're
Speaker 2: coming from Nick Saban or Kirby. Some of these guys
Speaker 2: are like, what the hell is this? So it's it's
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: It is a lot, all right? Free Agency Talk John Middlekoff,
Speaker 1: former NFL scout. His podcast is three and out. Hope
Speaker 1: you enjoyed it. We'll be back. We may take a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks break here to give John some time off.
Speaker 1: We'll see what transpires in the NFL. But free agency
Speaker 1: is over. I guess we're gonna start moving into the draft.
Speaker 1: They'll be a hell. It's the NFL. There are no never,
Speaker 1: never stopping. We get June is about it. NBA Talk
Speaker 1: three weeks in June, and then we're back to work
Speaker 1: as always. Buddy, good seeing you see you call the volume.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast,
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