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Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast, The questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zeph and Beast

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Speaker 1: start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Oh hello, Jamie, Hello, Hello, what's up? How are you?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing pretty good.

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Speaker 3: How are you? I'm doing all right. Yes, it's just

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Speaker 3: nice to sit down and watch an Australian film. So true,

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Speaker 3: Australian films are so slipped on, wouldn't you agree? I agree,

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Speaker 3: absolutely slipt on that Tony collects a stuff.

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Speaker 2: She really is and I always forget she's Australian because

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Speaker 2: most of the roles I've seen her do she's doing

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Speaker 2: an American accent. Yes, I feel like she is.

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Speaker 3: She then, and we've talked about this on the show before,

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Speaker 3: but I never I never tire of this line of discussion.

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Speaker 3: But like she and Margot Robie, I feel like our

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Speaker 3: our our strongest stealth Australians that I'm aware of, unless

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Speaker 3: there's more and we we just don't know.

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Speaker 2: Solely true, because there's Nicole Kidman's always kind of slipping

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Speaker 2: into her.

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Speaker 3: I would not, I would not she is. I would

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Speaker 3: not say that. I'm like, really, Nicole Kidman's Australian, nothing

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Speaker 3: but respect, but like she's constantly falling out of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: in a way that I simply love. I find it

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Speaker 3: very charming. Oh oh my gosh, no, wait, you're not

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Speaker 3: a Succession head Sarah Snook. Sarah Snook, who plays the

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Speaker 3: daughter Shive on Succession, is Australian and in all four

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Speaker 3: seasons I have I'm sure Australian folks would catch smaller slips,

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Speaker 3: but I like caught one slip and it was so

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Speaker 3: funny because she just couldn't say range. I think we've

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Speaker 3: talked about this of the Yeah, Raine drove she could.

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Speaker 3: She couldn't say Range, Rover, She's a Range and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: New York girl boss. Anyways. Yeah, this movie is proof

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Speaker 3: positive that Tony Kullett is indeed Australian and has been

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Speaker 3: for some time, at least thirty one years. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I would say most of her life.

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Speaker 3: Can't speak to before then, but this was like her big,

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Speaker 3: her big Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is

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Speaker 3: Shamie Loftis.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlyn Dante. This is our show where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersexual feminous ones, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel test as a jumping off point. We don't really

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Speaker 2: have time for that. We got to talk about Muriel's wedding.

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Speaker 3: This is our fake wedding. This is our fake wedding.

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Speaker 3: This is yeah. We we sort of planned this episode

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Speaker 3: last minute just because we were excited about it. It's

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Speaker 3: a movie that we are I'm sure that we're making

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Speaker 3: a few prospective guests for this because I think so

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Speaker 3: many guests over like I would talk about Muriel's wedding like,

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Speaker 3: people are frothing for this episode. Oh yeah, and we're

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Speaker 3: happy to give it to you. And I am so

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Speaker 3: excited to hear what people's experience with this movie was,

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Speaker 3: because I just like, there's so much to talk about.

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Speaker 3: What a film? I know, what a film I not?

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't you say? So? This film came out in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety four. Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 2: It was a lie?

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Speaker 3: It is I believe me too, And it's brave of

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Speaker 3: us to say that. But this was directed by PJ. Hogan,

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Speaker 3: who was like, who did so? He also did my

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Speaker 3: best friend's wedding, which we covered not too long ago

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Speaker 3: on this show, and by that, I mean I was

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Speaker 3: living in my current apartment, so it couldn't have been

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Speaker 3: too long ago.

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Speaker 2: Very true. He also directed that Peter Pan movie that

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Speaker 2: you have discussed with enjoying jerem me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, wow, he's coming up all over the place.

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Speaker 3: I also have been thinking a lot about Jason Isaacs,

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Speaker 3: who I believe plays Captain Hook in that Peter Pan. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because Jason Isaacs is in the new season of White Lotus,

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Speaker 3: so he's kind of having and I was like, who

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Speaker 3: is that? And then it's like, oh right, Wig Luciu's

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Speaker 3: Malfoy's dad. I was like, what's his name? What's his name? Wig?

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Speaker 3: In my head, Jason Isaac's name.

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Speaker 2: Is Wig long blond Wig.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know him before he was Wig.

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Speaker 4: P J.

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Speaker 2: Hogan also directed Confessions of a Schoppaholic, which I have

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Speaker 2: also not seen.

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Speaker 3: I haven't either. I know that people have and listeners

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Speaker 3: correct me from wrong. People have a lot of love

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Speaker 3: for that movie, but it seems more nostalgic than it

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Speaker 3: being good, might imagine. I can't say I read the

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Speaker 3: Confessions of the Chapoholic books when I was a kid,

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Speaker 3: because they had like a lot of sex in them,

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Speaker 3: and I think my mom let me take them out

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Speaker 3: of the library because she thought they were princess Diary's

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Speaker 3: books because the covers look similar, you know, both very

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Speaker 3: feminine titles. And but like I learned how to I

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Speaker 3: value those. But I don't remember a thing that happened,

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Speaker 3: but it's how I remember. It's how I learned about

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Speaker 3: fucking and credit card debt, two things I have since experienced.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. And I couldn't have done it without my

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Speaker 3: friend Chappaholic.

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Speaker 2: I learned about fucking via Judy.

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Speaker 3: Bloom books, like the adult ones. Yeah, because she wrote Forever, Yes,

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Speaker 3: Forever was that's a very horny book, very horny.

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Speaker 2: And then there's one called like Summer Sisters or something.

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Speaker 2: Remember that heavily references Abba. Relevant to today's discussion.

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Speaker 3: I do have a quite I mean, how on earth

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Speaker 3: did because this was an independent film, how did they

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Speaker 3: afford Abba? I don't It was made for nine million dollars,

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Speaker 3: Like that's how much it costs to play three seconds

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Speaker 3: of dancing Queen. Now I wonder.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, Mammy are ruined it for everyone?

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Speaker 2: I was gonna write Abba songs are that's too high.

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Speaker 3: Now, that's it's very possible because I think this came

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Speaker 3: out before the musical, so maybe that was just what

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Speaker 3: let me. Yeah, because the musical came out in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety nine, so maybe Abba Wright's We're pretty cheap. And

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Speaker 3: I mean it's clear that no one in Australia in

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four had a good thing to say about them.

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Speaker 2: Well especially Mary friends.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean you can tell where PJ. Hogan

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Speaker 3: stands because everyone who hates Abba is a bitch. What

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Speaker 3: an interesting movie. So yes, nineteen ninety four PJ. Hogan,

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Speaker 3: written and directed by I believe, his film debut, produced

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Speaker 3: by two women Brave, one of whom is Pj's his wife,

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Speaker 3: Jocelyn Moorehouse and a young actor who is pretty obscure

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Speaker 3: becomes a big stat from this movie. And an's Tony Kollett.

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Speaker 2: That's so true, Jimmie, what is your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 3: I hadn't seen it and I have no idea why,

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Speaker 3: because it's like I think, maybe it's just like a

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Speaker 3: little Yeah, I guess it's like for the same reason

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Speaker 3: that I mean, I'm not comparing them, but they're like

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Speaker 3: for one thing, I thought this movie was a romantic comedy,

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Speaker 3: like I did not, And there I would say, it

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Speaker 3: is like, while it is coded as it seems like

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Speaker 3: it was marketed as a romantic comedy. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: look at the cover of this movie and I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's a rom com probably exactly.

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Speaker 3: Like it's a I was. I was honestly like, is

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Speaker 3: this just like a boring highjinks thing? Like what is this?

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Speaker 3: This movie, I would say is pretty thoroughly devoid of

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Speaker 3: romantic love, but not devoid of love, but devoid of

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Speaker 3: romantic love, yes, but it is funny at many points.

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Speaker 3: I found it very sport but like, yeah, I just

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Speaker 3: hadn't seen it for whatever reason, for the same reason

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Speaker 3: that yeah, I think like Pretty Woman is a movie

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Speaker 3: that you'd think I would have seen by now, but

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Speaker 3: it was just like a little too old where I

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Speaker 3: don't think I grew up with anyone was like, you

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Speaker 3: gotta watch Muriel's wedding. But that's a damn shame, because

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Speaker 3: this movie I really enjoyed it. I've I don't even

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Speaker 3: like it's gonna be challenging to talk about because there's

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Speaker 3: so much that happens in this movie. I will say

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Speaker 3: and Okay, to be clear, I don't mean this as

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Speaker 3: a negative, but a lot of tonal whiplash where you're like,

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Speaker 3: it's this movie, No, it's this movie. It's a noora

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Speaker 3: for a few minutes, and then it's like a family

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Speaker 3: drama for the last ten minutes. It's like it's so

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Speaker 3: many different movies. It's also kind of like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I would be shocked if people weren't, you know, sort

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Speaker 3: of in the way that fans, do, you know, rooting

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Speaker 3: for Muriel and Rohnda to realize they're in love with

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Speaker 3: each other. I don't know what PJ thinks of that,

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Speaker 3: but that's probably what should happen anyways. Yeah, I just

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Speaker 3: thought it was wild. Yeah, and also that this came

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Speaker 3: out during like a pretty cool moment for Australian independent

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Speaker 3: film because it came out right after the Adventures of Priscilla,

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Speaker 3: Queen of the Desert, So this was like a really

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Speaker 3: interesting time for Straine film. So true, what's your history

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Speaker 3: with this movie? Had you seen it?

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Speaker 2: I had seen the first scene at the wedding at

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Speaker 2: the very beginning. Interesting, and I don't know why I

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Speaker 2: didn't keep watching. I think I like had to go

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Speaker 2: to a comedy show or something. But I watched it,

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Speaker 2: I think when I was still living in Boston with

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Speaker 2: my best friend, who I'm pretty sure is a big

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Speaker 2: fan of this movie, and he's like, I'm gonna put

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Speaker 2: this on, and then I watched the first scene and

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Speaker 2: then I like had to go. It's not that I

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Speaker 2: wasn't interested in continuing watching.

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Speaker 3: It's also such a weird for it's such a weird

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Speaker 3: movie from the moment it begins, like I like, what

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Speaker 3: would you even leave? Being like where is this going

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Speaker 3: to go? Because it's like Urials getting arrested? Right.

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Speaker 2: So I knew enough based on that first scene to

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Speaker 2: know that it was a movie about a woman who

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Speaker 2: we're supposed to kind of think is this you know,

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Speaker 2: like sad sack person, but we also like love her

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Speaker 2: and we're endeared to Muriel. But it's like it doesn't

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Speaker 2: start the way like that first scene. I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh this this probably isn't a standard rom calm based

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Speaker 2: on just like how things are being set up or

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Speaker 2: I couldn't really tell. But I never found out until

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Speaker 2: you know, yesterday what it was about, because I for

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Speaker 2: some reason didn't keep watching it at a later date.

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Speaker 2: But now I know. I've seen it twice now in

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Speaker 2: the past twenty four hours, and there's so much to discuss.

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Speaker 2: There's so much that happens. This is one of the

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Speaker 2: longest recaps I've ever written, just because so much happens

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Speaker 2: and it's hard to like gloss over things.

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Speaker 3: I really liked. One of the many things I liked

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Speaker 3: about this movie is that even though there are like

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, and maybe the recap will

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Speaker 3: prove me wrong because it is just such a vibes movie,

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Speaker 3: but even when characters sort of drop in and out,

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Speaker 3: they usually I thought that the script in the movie

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Speaker 3: was like much better than most movies about making sure

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Speaker 3: characters came back, making sure that people had a moment.

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Speaker 3: Someone who is referenced early on we meet later and

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Speaker 3: we get to see, even if it's like maybe very

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Speaker 3: sort of quick, but like you get to see sort

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Speaker 3: of like the humanity of a lot of stock rom

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Speaker 3: com characters, because it feels like this is a whole

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Speaker 3: movie about the like quote unquote loser best friend that

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Speaker 3: we see in so many romantic comedies, but this movie

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Speaker 3: is about her and about how everyone around her is

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Speaker 3: an asshole, like including her, Like I just yeah.

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Speaker 2: She's got problems, but that's what makes the movie so like,

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Speaker 2: it's so good, authentic and endearing. H Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 2: if a movie focused on like the Judy Greer best

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Speaker 2: friend character of so many rom coms.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then yeah, and if she had like huge

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Speaker 3: issues with her family. We'll get to the fare. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I thought it was really good. I also kept writing

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Speaker 3: down real teeth. I just love people.

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Speaker 2: No, no, uh, what's the fucking guy's name, Jerry Bruckheimer here?

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Speaker 3: No, no, Lauren Michael's teeth, none of it, none of

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Speaker 3: it real real teeth. Also, Okay, the best example I

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Speaker 3: can think of of a bit character that I had

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Speaker 3: totally forgotten about and then she came back was that

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Speaker 3: lady Diane who hates shoplifting.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's just.

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Speaker 3: The same, The same woman gets both Muriel and her

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Speaker 3: mother arrested for a shoplifting. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She's like, I guess it's sort of like those secret shoppers, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: who just like goes to stores and like spies and

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Speaker 2: narcs on other customers for shoplifting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's like, I get it that you've

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Speaker 3: got to work, but the least you can do is

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Speaker 3: be really bad at that job on purpose. Come on, absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, in any case, shall we take a

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Speaker 2: quick break and then get into the ages long recap

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Speaker 2: that I've written.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we'll be right back, and we're back. We'll place

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Speaker 2: a content warning here for suicide as well as family

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Speaker 2: abuse dynamics. Here's the recap of Muriel's wedding. I also like,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, am I saying this name right? Muriel Muriel?

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Speaker 2: And then later she calls herself Mariel.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's Muriel Muriel. I think that that at least

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Speaker 3: that's the American pronunciation of it, okay, because that was

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Speaker 3: did you ever I know, I know the answer to this.

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Speaker 3: Did you ever watch Courage the Cowardly Dog?

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Speaker 2: Were not at all?

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a character named Muriel on that show. It's

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Speaker 3: spelled the same way, and she says it like that. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of an old time It's just like an

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Speaker 3: old fashioned name. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, my grandmother was named Miriam, so oh, okay, similar vibes.

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Speaker 3: I knew. I knew a few mary El's. I definitely

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Speaker 3: didn't know any Muriels. Her husband's name was Eustace. This

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Speaker 3: cartoon I'm talking. Okay, so they they've just wear an

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Speaker 3: elderly cartoon characters.

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Speaker 2: Got it, got it all right?

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Speaker 3: I guess we should start.

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Speaker 2: So we are in a place called Porpoise Spit Australia.

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Speaker 2: Ever heard of it? No, because it's a made up.

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Speaker 3: Place, such a funny big name.

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Speaker 2: We meet Muriel has Slop, played by Tony Kullette, at

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Speaker 2: her friend's wedding, not her best friend's wedding, just her

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Speaker 2: regular friend's wedding. She has caught the bouquet Mariel has

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Speaker 2: and she's delighted because she loves weddings. She desperately wants

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Speaker 2: to get married. The whole marriage and wedding thing is

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Speaker 2: like very up her alley. Yeah, but all of her

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Speaker 2: very mean friends such as Tanya, Cheryl, Nicole, there's another

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Speaker 2: one whose name I didn't catch. They're like, eh, Muriel

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Speaker 2: caught the bouquet. There's no way she'll be the next

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Speaker 2: one to get married. She's never even had a boyfriend, Mariel,

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Speaker 2: you should give the bouquet to someone else. They're also

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Speaker 2: commenting on how she didn't even buy a new dress

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Speaker 2: for this wedding, and she's like, yes, I did.

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Speaker 3: And then it's like, well, yes and no, I love

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Speaker 3: I love her. I just like she's impossible not to

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Speaker 3: root for, even when she's being a real piece of shit.

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Speaker 3: I just Tony Kalett is so good and the writing is,

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Speaker 3: I thought, really good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I just this movie weirdly made me like my best

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Speaker 3: friend's wedding more just because I knew it was the same.

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Speaker 3: It's not that I really want to watch it again,

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Speaker 3: but I know that that our whole discussion around that

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Speaker 3: movie was sort of like they were trying to go

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Speaker 3: for something but it didn't quite happen, right, And I

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Speaker 3: feel like they're trying to go something for something different,

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Speaker 3: but they're trying to go for something here that is

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Speaker 3: also weirdly wedding related, right, But the difference is it

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Speaker 3: works in this movie really well. Right.

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Speaker 2: It seems like PJ. Hogan has a vested interest in

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Speaker 2: subverting traditional wedding oriented narratives, and what he ends up

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Speaker 2: doing with My best Friend's wedding I appreciate to some extent, but.

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Speaker 3: It also just feels like it's so Hollywood, and it

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Speaker 3: seems like this movie is presumably completely within his control

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Speaker 3: because it's fairly low budget. It's I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't able to fight a lot of information of

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Speaker 3: like was he But I'm assuming because it's like a

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Speaker 3: husband wife, you know, producing to it, like creatively, there

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Speaker 3: was a lot more freedom to make some like weird

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Speaker 3: choices because this movie makes so many weird choices.

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Speaker 2: It really does. Yeah, And then there's a quick moment

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Speaker 2: where Muriel goes inside and sees the groom whose name

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Speaker 2: is Chuck.

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Speaker 3: You're like and maybe maybe that's the name. Maybe we're

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Speaker 3: not sure.

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Speaker 2: And he's having sex with not the bride but one

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Speaker 2: of the bride's friends, Nicole, and like Muriel sees them

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Speaker 2: like secretly having sex in the laundry room. Then there's

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Speaker 2: this whole thing where that woman, I guess her name

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Speaker 2: is what is it Diane. She's like the secret shopper

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Speaker 2: like store detective lady who accuses Maryel of stealing the

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Speaker 2: dress that she's wearing.

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Speaker 3: I am just like my enemy, my enemy Diane.

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Speaker 2: The cops get involved, but Muriel's dad, Bill Heslop played

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Speaker 2: by Bill Hunter, who was also in Priscilla, Queen of

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Speaker 2: the Desert, and he's in another movie that we watched

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Speaker 2: recently together. We haven't covered it on the podcast yet,

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Speaker 2: but strictly ballroom.

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Speaker 3: I mean he is Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he is like a city council member or something.

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Speaker 2: He works in government.

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Speaker 3: It seems like he's a city council member who aspires

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Speaker 3: to a bigger political career. Yes. Yeah, he's a climber

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Speaker 3: and he's a piece of shit.

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Speaker 2: He's the worst person. He kind of like butters up

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Speaker 2: the cops to get Muriel out of trouble after stealing

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Speaker 2: this dress. Then we cut to Muriel having dinner with

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Speaker 2: her family. Her dad and her mom, Betty played by

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Speaker 2: Genie Drynen, are there, along with Muriel's like three or

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Speaker 2: four siblings. Her dad is carrying on about his various

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Speaker 2: business dealings. He seems to be like a real estate

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Speaker 2: developer or he like grants permits to people who build

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Speaker 2: these like resorts and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: I was not exactly sure, yeah, because I was like,

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Speaker 3: whatever he was doing, it's shady as fuck. Yeah, he

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Speaker 3: was doing illegally. But like he I mean, and this

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Speaker 3: is like a through line to the movie as it

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Speaker 3: turns out, but like he's such a liar that I

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Speaker 3: was not even sure what he was supposed to.

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Speaker 2: Have been doing, right, Yeah, I don't really, I don't understand.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I don't take bribes, I mean agreements, And

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Speaker 3: I was like, for what, like it just was I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I don't have that in me. I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: it's too confusing. You're calling things other can't do it.

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Speaker 2: We just know he's sleazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's hearing on oh that day draft, like

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Speaker 3: whenever he screams across any room day draft. Yeah. The

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Speaker 3: woman he's gonna leave her for. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's that. There's he talks about how he

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Speaker 2: like ran for state government once but lost. That'll kind

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Speaker 2: of come back later. We also learn that Muriel dropped

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Speaker 2: out of high school. She's currently unemployed and has been

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Speaker 2: for a couple of years. Her dad calls Muriel and

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Speaker 2: her siblings useless and dead weight. And then this is

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Speaker 2: when a friend of Bill's comes over to the table.

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Speaker 2: This is a beauty consultant named Deirdre who.

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Speaker 3: Is basically running an MLM. It sounds like like a

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Speaker 3: ninety era mL.

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Speaker 2: It's not Avon, it's not Mary Kay, but it's something

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Speaker 2: like it.

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Speaker 3: It's the Australian fictional variant of this right, but.

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Speaker 2: Deirdre offers Muriel a job. The next night, Muriel goes

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Speaker 2: out to drinks with her friends, her mean girl friends,

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Speaker 2: including the bride from the wedding, Tanya, who's crying because

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Speaker 2: her husband is already having an affair, but not.

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Speaker 3: With the person that Muriel knows with. It's a different affair,

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Speaker 3: which just unfortunately, like pretty funny when you see, like

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Speaker 3: when you see I think it's Nicole, react to like, wait,

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Speaker 3: he's cheating on me to yet another person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And her friends tell Tanya to forget about her

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Speaker 2: husband and go on holiday with them to Hibiscus Island.

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Speaker 3: This is the lot to Sex and the City the movie.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you're right. Yeah, I didn't even think

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like if they had a friend that they

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Speaker 3: verbally abused almost to death. Fortunately, among their crimes, that's

380
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Speaker 3: not one of them. There's not a random fift but

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Speaker 3: it really did feel like the cast of Sex and

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Speaker 3: the City plus Tony Collette, and everyone's screaming at Tony

383
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Speaker 3: Collett to shut up.

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Speaker 2: Right, because what has happened is that Maryel's friends had

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00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: planned a vacation without inviting Mauriel, and then they tell

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Speaker 2: her that they don't want Muriel hanging around with them

387
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: anymore because she doesn't fit in with the image that

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Speaker 2: they've cultivated. She doesn't wear the right clothes or hairstyles.

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Speaker 2: They fat shame her, and they also just simply don't

390
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Speaker 2: like who she is as a person. Mauriel naturally starts

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Speaker 2: crying and she says.

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Speaker 3: I'm not nothing. It's so we're like, oh, Mariel, yeah,

393
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Speaker 3: like this this movie is very depressing. Do yeah. However,

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Speaker 3: I think it's so like bravely. I think Tony Kallett

395
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Speaker 3: is very talented, but it is wild how they managed

396
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Speaker 3: to balance the tone in the scene that like, your

397
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Speaker 3: heart is breaking for her, and the scene is still

398
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Speaker 3: a little bit funny because they're in this like loud

399
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Speaker 3: tiki bar, and the friends are so tone deaf that

400
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Speaker 3: when they're like, oh, yeah, I'm Muriel. We didn't invite

401
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Speaker 3: you on vacation because we hate you and we hate

402
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Speaker 3: everything about you. And then I think Tanya turns the

403
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: subject back to herself and Muriel's still crying, and then

404
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 3: she's like, could you stop making it about yourself? Muriel?

405
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 3: Like It's like it still manages to be funny in

406
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 3: this very depressed but in a way that isn't taking

407
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Speaker 3: swings at our love of Muriel, which is I feel like,

408
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Speaker 3: really hard to do. And yeah, I mean we'll we'll

409
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Speaker 3: talk about the the you know that group of gals.

410
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Speaker 3: But I just it made me because, especially as the

411
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Speaker 3: movie goes on, it just feels like when you start

412
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Speaker 3: to realize the sort of unending depths of self hatred

413
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Speaker 3: that Muriel has for herself, that it's like she's saying,

414
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Speaker 3: I'm not nothing like almost more to herself than to

415
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Speaker 3: these women, and it's totally it's really sad. I no, oh,

416
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Speaker 3: it breaks your heart. And then don't worry. It's gonna

417
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 3: work out for her everyone. It's gonna also watch the movie.

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Speaker 3: It's streaming on Paramount Plus. But it's gonna work out

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Speaker 3: for her everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but a few really the horrible things will happen first, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, isn't if that's not life best case scenario.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So her friends have dumped her. The next day,

423
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Speaker 2: Muriel's mom, Betty, gives Muriel a blank check so that

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Speaker 2: she can buy makeup kids from Deirdre to resell because

425
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: it is this like MLM scheme. Muriel tells her mom

426
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Speaker 2: that she's gonna get married and be successful so that

427
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Speaker 2: her parents can be proud of her.

428
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Speaker 3: And there's a line that and there's also I again

429
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Speaker 3: just like a character that I'm used to seeing in

430
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 3: passing in rom comms, the like, for lack of a

431
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 3: better description, depressed mother, and we end up getting I mean,

432
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: it doesn't get much happier, but there is a lot

433
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: of depth that we get with her mother that I

434
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting, and I was like pretty pleasantly surprised by

435
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: just the amount that the plot is considering her. But

436
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: there's a line she says in that scene that again

437
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 3: just broke my heart because it becomes I feel like

438
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 3: it's clear at the beginning, but it becomes clearer and

439
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 3: clearer as the movie goes on that Muriel's mother's coping

440
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: technique is denial and like shutting herself off to the

441
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: parts of reality that are upsetting, even when that hurts

442
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: through children. Basically, there's a line that she says that

443
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: just brought my heart where she's like, your dad just

444
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: wants to be proud of you, and you're just her

445
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 3: phrasing it that way, you're just like, ah, I would

446
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: steal all your money too, totally, which is what Muriel does.

447
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: Yes, because we cut to Hibiscus Island, which is a

448
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: very small island off the north west coast of Australia.

449
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: This is where Muriel's friends are or former friends I

450
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: should say, are on vacation. They look over and see Muriel,

451
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: who has clearly used that blank check that her mom

452
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: gave her to treat herself to a holiday, and the

453
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: other women are furious that Mauriel is there. That night,

454
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: she runs into someone she went to high school with,

455
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: Ronda played by Rachel Griffiths. Maryel makes up a lie

456
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 2: and tells Ronda that she's engaged to someone named Tim Simms.

457
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: They I and you will be shocked how long Tim

458
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 3: Simms is canonically real in this friendship.

459
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 5: It seems like a month and months. She's like, what

460
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 5: do you mean you would get a married Tim Simms?

461
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 5: It's somehow even funnier in the accent, like.

462
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: It's just I love it. It's it's her. I don't know

463
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: why I'm feeling so referencing today, but her, what is it?

464
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: Astronaut Mike Dexter, like just a made up boyfriend from

465
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: thirty Rock. Yes, that's Muriel's Tim Simms.

466
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: I'm also reminded of I forget which Brady Bunch movie,

467
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: but it's like the ones that Christine Taylor is in them.

468
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: They were like big staples of my youth. And Marcia

469
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: at one point makes up a boyfriend named George Glass.

470
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: So I love a lot like that.

471
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: I mean, because it's also and I appreciate that it's

472
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: made clearer in Muriel's wedding. Then I think it's been

473
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: in most because I mean, god knows how many movies

474
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: we've covered that have been like a relationship predicated on

475
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 3: a lie. But I am giving this movie a pass

476
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 3: because it's a friendship. No, But also it is, like

477
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: is made so clear to us why Muriel's doing what

478
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: she's doing. It doesn't excuse her from being dishonest with

479
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 3: people who especially people like Ronda, who actually care about her,

480
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: but it's very clear that this lie is coming from

481
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: a place of insecurity, which is like most of the

482
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 3: times in you know, my life where that lie has

483
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: been made to me, or like when I was in

484
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 3: high school from me is because you're insecure and like

485
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 3: you want to seem cool and yeah, I don't know.

486
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: We just covered Ryleyan on the show, and there's a

487
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 3: similar thing there where it's just like, oh, I'm only

488
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 3: going to see this person for one night. Let me

489
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: just let them believe in the best version of myself

490
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 3: that doesn't exist yet totally, and then you always end

491
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 3: up entering a domestic partnership with this person. But what

492
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: can you do? Right? It is?

493
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: It is very different from the standard like rom com.

494
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: Oh it's a it's a bet, or it's some kind

495
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: of goofy lie to trick someone into thinking I'm not

496
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: writing an article about them or whatever it is. Right,

497
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: the context here is totally different, and it's rooted in

498
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: something far more real, zembling real life, because I've met

499
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: so many people like Muriel who I like, of course,

500
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: either don't know they're lying or I can tell they're

501
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 2: lying about something, but I understand why they're doing it,

502
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: because yeah, they're they're insecure, They're they're doing the like

503
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: fake it till you make it thing, and you know.

504
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: It's the classic like I have a boyfriend who lives

505
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,479
Speaker 3: in Canada, like yeah, and some people carry that energy

506
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: far into their adulthood and Muriel is I mean she's not,

507
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: I mean not far into her adulthood. Tony Kollette I

508
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 3: think is like twenty two in this movie. Yeah, but

509
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: you know she and also as as it becomes more

510
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 3: obvious and like, I don't know if it hit for

511
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: you right away and I'm just have a brain full

512
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: of rocks. But it's also like Muriel has seen her

513
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: parents use lying in denial as coping strategies her whole life,

514
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 3: and so it makes a lot of sense that that

515
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: would be her go to for sure.

516
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So this is the lie that maryel tells

517
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: Ronda about her fiance Tim Sims. Sims and the two

518
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: of them get to talking about Tanya and Tanya's friends

519
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: and how they were so cruel to Ronda in high school,

520
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: and Mariel is like, well, surprise, they're right over there.

521
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: So Ronda approaches them and Tanya is like, oh, why

522
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: don't you have a drink with us? And Ronda is

523
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: basically like no, thanks, you killy had beach.

524
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: By the way, love, Like this speed with which Ronda

525
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: wins you over is like unreal, It's so great.

526
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's like, by the way, your friend Nicole

527
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: is fucking your husband. And also I'm gonna go hang

528
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: out with my new friend Maryel By like mic drop.

529
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: Cut to and also, if you haven't seen the movie,

530
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: important that you know that Muriel's obsessed with Abba. Cut

531
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: to them doing an amazing karaoke scene in Waterloo, and

532
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: then you're like, oh, this movie is weird, weird like this,

533
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: it's it's great. Also, my best friend's wedding features an

534
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: extended karaoke scene. Another PJ.

535
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: Hogan, Wait, is it the one where they're at the

536
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: like rehearsal dinner or some like wedding.

537
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: Over Julia am I thinking they're wrong movie Ulis can't

538
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: sing and then they follow.

539
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: No, Cameron Diaz can't sing. Oh yes, yes, at karaoke.

540
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: But then there's another scene where like a whole group

541
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: of people are singing at some dinner. Yeah, we're talking

542
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: about twoffer different scenes. But now I remember the karaoke scene.

543
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 4: P J.

544
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 3: Hogan loves a weird karaoke slash bar fight scene.

545
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, because what happens is like Rhnda and Muriel are

546
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: like bringing down the house with their Waterloo performance.

547
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: The outfits. It's just awesome. Yeah.

548
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Tanya and her friends are there and they're having

549
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: a horrible time, and then Tanya and Nicole start beating

550
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: each other up. Cut to Maryel's family. They're reading a

551
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: postcard from Muriel saying that she's funding this expensive vacation

552
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: with all the cosmetics she's selling. Diadra hears about this

553
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: and knows that Muriel's lying. Also, there's speculation that Muriel's

554
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: dad and Deirdre are having an affair. I can't remember

555
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: if I've made that clear yet or not.

556
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, And it becomes increasingly obvious as time goes on,

557
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: for sure, because she just always happens to be in

558
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: the same restaurant. I love that that's there. It seems

559
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 3: like truly their system is I will go to the

560
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 3: nearest Chinese restaurant, and then you also go there, because

561
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: we see that happen in multiple cities, Like that's clearly

562
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: just their thing that they.

563
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: Do something and he's always like, oh, what a cool

564
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: and she's like hi, yeah yeah. So back to Muriel.

565
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: She's still on vacation, hanging out with Ronda, who reassures

566
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: Marriel that she is somebody. She's successful in Timstons wants

567
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: to marry her. Shortly after this, Muriel returns home very

568
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: briefly because it seems like her family is missing. Twelve

569
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and they rightfully suspect Muriel of stealing it.

570
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: So she turns right back around and heads to Sydney,

571
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: where Ronda lives. She moves in with her.

572
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 3: It's a very sad scene, but it's also very funny

573
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 3: that Muriel walks in the house with these like pretty

574
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: gnarly tan lines too. She has like the outline of

575
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: sunglasses on her face, which I thought was a funny touch.

576
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: And then her poor mother is like always wanting to

577
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: give her the benefit of the doubt, and it's like,

578
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: you didn't do it right. You wouldn't do that. You're awesome,

579
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: and Muriel's like, yeah, gotta go and running back. I mean,

580
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I was laughing.

581
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: It's funny.

582
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 3: You sun block. Oh my god. People in the nineties

583
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: were so stressful. Please use sunblock for the love of god.

584
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So Muriel moves to Sydney. She's still lying

585
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: to Ronda about having been engaged, although now she's saying

586
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 2: that her ex fiance, Tim Sims is a cop, and

587
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: so she's changing her name to Mariel with an A

588
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 2: to hide from him.

589
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 3: And I like that. I mean, it's definitely like naive

590
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: of Ronda, But I also just like appreciate how game

591
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 3: she is for like whatever Muriel's up to where she

592
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: says and she means it. She's like, oh, you know

593
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 3: when she meets him, she's like, oh, are you are

594
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: you trying to like have one last fling before you

595
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: get married to Tim Simms. I won't tell anybody. Yeah,

596
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: And then and then she's like, oh, are you changing

597
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 3: your name? Because Tim Sims is a homicidal X cop.

598
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: I won't tell anybody. And it's like she is. She's

599
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 3: a true friend.

600
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: She's loyal.

601
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 3: She's loyal even when it's like, come on, read back

602
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: what you just said. But they're young.

603
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: They're young, yeah, early twenties. Yeah, yeah, Okay. So Maryel

604
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 2: now works at a video rental store and one night

605
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: she goes out to a dance club with a customer

606
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 2: named Bryce, who had like come into the video store

607
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: and asked her out on a date. She brings him

608
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: back home, where Ronda is having allowed threesome in the

609
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: other room. Maryel and Bryce start making out. She's shrieking

610
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 2: with laughter, and then there's all this okay high jinks.

611
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: Well, okay, we have to slow this scene down because

612
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: this scene I was like, I had to watch it

613
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 3: like three times. It so much happens. Some of it

614
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: is very high, some of it is very serious. The

615
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: giggly stuff I was really confused about because I was

616
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: sort of wondering because what happens right before they start

617
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: making out and like we'll get into this where you know,

618
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 3: it is very nineties and ascribing to like no consent discussions,

619
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: nothing like that. Right like they're vibing, but he comes

620
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: on pretty strong. I thought, sure, And she's laughing and

621
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: it's unclear. I sort of was like, is it nervous

622
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 3: or excited laughter? Because what happens right before they start

623
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 3: making out is she sees her dad on tv ye

624
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: say like Muriel, come home. We don't care about the money,

625
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: And so I was like, is she having a panic attack?

626
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: Like or is this but and it's like it's genuinely

627
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 3: and it's you know whatever. It doesn't need to be

628
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: directly clear to me, but I was like, I just

629
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: felt to me, I was like reading that as like

630
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: she was just like so overwhelmed by so many things

631
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 3: happening at once, where I was like, this is an

632
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: either her first or one of her first sexual experiences

633
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: and she's like excited about it but also nervous, and

634
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 3: also her dad is on TV looking for her, and

635
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: also there's a three way going on five feet away,

636
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: and it's just like it seems like she just like

637
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: sort of her brain breaks a little bit and she's

638
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: like yeah, right, and then hijinks and then cancer and

639
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: you're like.

640
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: All it's a spin of like two minutes. It's so

641
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: much jam packed into one small moment.

642
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 3: While Yeah, I was.

643
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 2: Thinking about, like, the context we learned earlier in the

644
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: beginning of the movie is that Maryel's never had a boyfriend.

645
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean she's never had any sexual experiences, but

646
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: it also might mean that she hasn't.

647
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 3: We don't know.

648
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: We don't know for sure.

649
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: We're not sure. It does seem like Muriel has a

650
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: hyperfixation on monogamy that would suggest that maybe she hasn't

651
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 3: had it, but we again, we just don't know.

652
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 2: Canonically hard to say yeah. But then yeah, there's this

653
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 2: like high jinxy kind of slapstick moment where Bryce, intending

654
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: to like unzip her pants, he accidentally unzips the bean

655
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 2: bag chair and all of the beans spill out. Then

656
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: the two dudes who Ronda is fucking come out naked

657
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: with their dicks out, and every time, like and why

658
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: Maryel sees them, she shrieks some more. But like in

659
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: a again, we're just like how.

660
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: It just seems like she it's like she she's very

661
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: hard to read this scene. I was like, how are

662
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 3: you feeling? I don't know. Yeah, And also I'm like

663
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 3: it happened so suddenly that I'm like, why did they attack?

664
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: I'm guessing they heard her shrieking shrieking, and then they're like,

665
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: what are you doing to her? So the two other

666
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: guys like pin Bryce down, thinking that maybe he was

667
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: assaulting Muriel, and then Ronda comes out and then suddenly

668
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: Ronda's like, I can't feel my legs.

669
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: Cut to so the er, that scene is exactly as

670
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 3: chaotic as you just described, Like it is an experience

671
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,240
Speaker 3: watching that scene.

672
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot. And then in the er in

673
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: the hospital, it turns out that Ronda has a cancerous

674
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: tumor that is pressing on her spine. That's why she

675
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: couldn't feel her legs and she needs to have surgery

676
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: immediately to have the tumor removed.

677
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 3: Not to over cancer this discussion so much, but I

678
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: did it did make me. I was curious, like how

679
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 3: intentionally this was done. And apologies if you're an oncologist

680
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: or a lover of oncologists, But the scene where she

681
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: finds out that she has cancer and the oncologist sort

682
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 3: of just drops that word into the conversation and she's like, wait,

683
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: I have cancer and he's like, yeah, yeah, duh. Like

684
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: that has been my experience with most oncologists, like when

685
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: I was taking care of my dad over a course

686
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 3: of years, where there's sometimes this and I get it,

687
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: we're dumb, but like you have to say, like, okay,

688
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: first things first, you have cancer, not just like okay,

689
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: so here's what we have to do. We have to

690
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: do on this timeline. Uh yeah, idiot, it's obviously cancer.

691
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's not best side manner. Where where is it? Anyways?

692
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 3: I just felt weirdly validated by that experience and the

693
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: doctor be like, oh, well, yeah, it's obviously cancer. Like

694
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: you know, you have to say that, you have to

695
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: say that.

696
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: You have to use your words. I mean, I've talked

697
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: at length on various podcasts and episodes of this show

698
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: about my kind of distrust of the American healthcare system.

699
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 2: But yeah, I found that a lot of doctors are

700
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: not very good at communication, so no, and then there

701
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: they should work on that.

702
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyways, there it is a very uh again, just

703
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 3: like one of the many kind of abrupt like pace

704
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,479
Speaker 3: changes in the movie where it goes from like, oh,

705
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: like Muriel's about to have a fun hookup with her

706
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: crush to her best friend has cancer. And I just

707
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 3: again was like so impressed that even though the like

708
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 3: whatever gradient of things that happen is so all over

709
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: the place, it never stops being a comedy. Right, but

710
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 3: I'm sort of confused as to how that was even possible.

711
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's like, I mean, Rohnda has to have

712
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: this surgery and and it seems that, you know, Muriel

713
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 3: is her main source of support.

714
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, this will become clear in a few

715
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: moments before that, Muriel calls home and finds out that

716
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 2: her dad has left her mom and is currently in

717
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: Sydney as well, facing an inquiry for accepting bra vibes

718
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: after Muriel stole their money. But you also get the

719
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: impression that he's been accepting bribes his entire career, so

720
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: it's like not a new.

721
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: Thing, and that right, and that it's just like this,

722
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: it happens to be the thing that people caught up on.

723
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 3: And also, I mean, it becomes clearer as the movie

724
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: goes on that her dad is always doing things that

725
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 3: seem altruistic but are without fail to improve his own position,

726
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 3: which you know, because at first I was kind of

727
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: surprised when he goes on TV and he's like, Muriel,

728
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: we love you, we're you know, we don't care about

729
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 3: the money. But then it's like, oh, he was doing

730
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 3: that to make him more sympathetic in this big court

731
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: case he was about to go through. He's like, he

732
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 3: doesn't mean a word that he says, which we learn

733
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 3: in even more kind of gruesome detail as the movie

734
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 3: goes on.

735
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 2: For sure. So then, and this is maybe to help

736
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: Muriel cope with this news of her friend being diagnosed

737
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 2: with CAM. But she goes into a wedding dress shop

738
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 2: to try on a gown. She tells the shopkeepers that

739
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: she's marrying her fiance Bill in September.

740
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: Which is also like, ugh, that's her dad's name, Muriel,

741
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: don't say.

742
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: That, yeah, stick with Tim Sims. She also said her

743
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: story straight lady. She also says that her mom can't

744
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: come because she's in the hospital with a tumor on

745
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: her spine aka what's going on with Rohnda. And by

746
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 2: now we realize that Muriel is a serial liar. I mean, yeah,

747
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 2: that was pretty clear from the jump, but it's like

748
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: now happened several times.

749
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: But I feel like that's the first example where it's

750
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: clear that like lying is her coping mechanism because it's

751
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: like she can't talk about she finds it really difficult

752
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 3: to talk about what is actually bothering her, so she

753
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 3: makes up weird lies that reference what is bothering right.

754
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's pulling from source material aka other people in

755
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: her life and then making up stories to make herself

756
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: seem sympathetic. And it works. Yeah, because the shopkeeper out

757
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: of section, they take photos of her in the dress,

758
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 2: which Mariel puts in a wedding photo album, which we'll

759
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: come back in a moment. Meanwhile, Ronda is in physical therapy.

760
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: She's learning how to walk again. She's incredibly frustrated because

761
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: she's unable to do much for herself. Mariel has to

762
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: take care of her. But Mariiel's like, I don't mind,

763
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 2: this is the best my life has ever been. It's

764
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: as good as an Abba song.

765
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: That made me tear up. That was really beautiful.

766
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then and then Ronda makes Muriel promise that

767
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: they'll never go back to their hometown of Porpoise Spit

768
00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 2: and she's like.

769
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, which I will say is for even though Ronda

770
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: is the best character in the movie, I think, and

771
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 3: she's the realist. I wonder if it's like if it's

772
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: a youth thing or but like, I don't know that

773
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 3: she necessarily realized what a big ask that is, and

774
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 3: that it was sort of like said and not to

775
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: say that Muriel wouldn't have done it or I mean,

776
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: because it's like caretaking and like assisting is like one

777
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 3: of the most important jobs that exists. But it was

778
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: just I felt a little bit for Muriel in that

779
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: moment where it's like, well, what do you say in

780
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 3: that situation? Even if you have reservations, you don't want

781
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 3: to seem like you're turning your back on your friend, right,

782
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: So it was I felt for both of them in

783
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: that situation, because of course it's like Ronda needs a

784
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 3: lifeline badly because she was They literally bonded over hating

785
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: where they came from right, But then in the same way,

786
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: it's like, that's a lot of pressure, particularly on a

787
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: new friendship, and so I just really felt for both

788
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: of them.

789
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've only known each other for a few months.

790
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe, like and so it's like that is a

791
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: really steep escalation, you know, but that's I mean, god,

792
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: I again, it's just like obviously very specific circumstances, but like, oh,

793
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 3: two friends in their early twenties and a weirdly codependent friendship.

794
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 3: Many such cases, many such cases, indeed.

795
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: Yes, So one day Ronda sees this wedding photo album

796
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 2: that Maryel has been compiling, and apparently she's been filling

797
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: it with dozens of photos of her in different wedding

798
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: dresses at various bridal shops across Sydney. And then Ronda

799
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 2: catches her red handed, like in the middle of trying

800
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 2: on a dress and assumes that Maryel has gotten back

801
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: together with Tim's Sims. And this is the moment where

802
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: Maryel finally admits that there is no Tim Simms. She

803
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: made him up, and she's doing that because she just

804
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: desperately wants to get married, because if she gets married,

805
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: she'll be someone else. Because Maryel hates herself.

806
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: And that is the moment in the movie. Room'm like, oh,

807
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: this movie is so good. It's like directly confronting how

808
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 3: we're conditioned to see marriage to some extent where a

809
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: lot of people are conditioned to see marriage is as

810
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: like if you can do this, everything will be okay.

811
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: When look at literally any marriage, it's so demonstrably untrue

812
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 3: and like and the fact that like Ronda is so

813
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 3: awesome in that scene, and we'll talk about like the

814
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 3: conversations around ableism in this movie too, but like the

815
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: fact that she, you know, is like get out of

816
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: it because she's so afraid for Muriel and thinks that

817
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 3: Muriel's re entering this abusive relationship right, And it's just

818
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 3: like it's so emotionally charged and there's too much going

819
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 3: on in their respective lives for them to be able

820
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: to show up for each other in the way that

821
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: they need to. And it's just like a ough it was.

822
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 3: That scene is so heartbreaking and then also still somehow

823
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: funny at the end because Ronda storms out and it's

824
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 3: just like the two employees at the Bridle shop and

825
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 3: a sobbing Tony Kollett and they're like hmmm, so what

826
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 3: do we do?

827
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: So we need that dress back now?

828
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 3: Right, It's still like always there manages to be a

829
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 3: comedic button on these like devastating scenes.

830
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: It's wilds yeah for sure. Okay, So sometime later, Muriel

831
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 2: meets up with her dad in Sydney. He berates her

832
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,479
Speaker 2: for stealing his money. Deirdre just happens to come into

833
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: the restaurant, Oh my God, and she and Bill confirm

834
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: that they're in love and that Bill has effectively left

835
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: Muriel's mom Betty for Deirdre. Bill also tells Muriel that

836
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: she has to move back in with her mom and

837
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: she has like a few weeks to do it to

838
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: avoid having to move back to Porpoise spit. Muriel goes

839
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 2: through personal ads looking for men who are looking for

840
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 2: a his wife.

841
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 3: And this is like the maybe third or fourth time

842
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 3: that the.

843
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 4: Movie just likes a big name, totally different movie where

844
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 4: it's like that this is the beginning of a this

845
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 4: is the first act of a different movie.

846
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: If we're like well into the second act of this movie.

847
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:47,479
Speaker 1: Now.

848
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 3: I just thought it was like it was pretty pretty

849
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 3: awesome because that premise feels weirdly like old school rom

850
00:49:54,800 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 3: comie of like I need to do this and so

851
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 3: I guess I have to get married. Like that's the

852
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: oldest rom com trope in the book.

853
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: So I thought when I was watching this yesterday, yeah,

854
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: for the first time, aside from that first scene I

855
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: had already watched years and years and years ago. I

856
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: thought that the premise of the movie was going to

857
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: be that after she catches the bouquet at this wedding

858
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: and all her friends are like, you'll never be the

859
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: next one to get married, that Maryel will like go

860
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: on a journey like just be hell bent on getting

861
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: married to prove those friends wrong. And that is kind

862
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: of what happens. But that's not even necessarily her specific goal,

863
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: like other a lot of other things happen to like

864
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: get her on this path of this marriage that she

865
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: eventually has, which we're about to get to.

866
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: But like, well, it's like because it's like the real

867
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 3: inciting incident of this movie is meeting Ronda, Like that's

868
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 3: what really changes things. It feels like I don't know,

869
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 3: I feel like it's clear by the end that it's like,

870
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 3: you know, platonic or not, Like Ronda is the great

871
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 3: love of Muriel's life. And vice versa, even though you

872
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 3: know they both make their mistakes, Muriel more than Ronda.

873
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, that scene, it's so I don't even

874
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: know what I thought this movie. I thought it was

875
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 3: literally just like my wedding is next week, aha, because

876
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 3: that's so many movies like they're like, I guess it's

877
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 3: one of those. But it's just so twisty turney this

878
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 3: is to me when it turns into it accidentally turns

879
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 3: into like sort of an aura for like ten minutes

880
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 3: where it's like, there's this rich guy from a foreign

881
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: country that you know nothing about. You're gonna marry him,

882
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 3: but it's not serious, and you're like, I know this.

883
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: One right, because here's what happens. So she finds a

884
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: personal ad that seems promising, so she goes to respond

885
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: to it. Meanwhile, Ronda reveals that her cancer has come

886
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: back and that she'll never walk again, and Ronda's mom

887
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 2: is insisting that she does move back home to Porpoise Spit.

888
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 2: Muriel's too wrapped up in this other thing to really

889
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: bother with what Ronda's dealing with. That's because Muriel.

890
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 3: My read of that was like it almost felt like

891
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: Muriel was like mirroring her mom a little bit in

892
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: that sequence where the situation going on around her was

893
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 3: too overwhelming and so she kind of like detaches from

894
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: it and does something else because originally, I guess I

895
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: misinterpreted it the first time I watched this sequence where

896
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 3: I thought that like Muriel had all of it, like

897
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 3: she wants to, say, in Sydney because she doesn't want

898
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: to be in this toxic family dynamic, but she also

899
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: wants to be in Sydney because she loves Rhonda and

900
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 3: wants to be there to support her, And so I

901
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 3: sort of thought part of the reason she was seeking

902
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: out this marriage arrangement was so that she could continue

903
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 3: to be around Ronda. But then Ronda is you know,

904
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 3: when Ronda's mom sort of puts her foot down and

905
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 3: is like, no, you're coming home, it seems like Muriel

906
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 3: just freaks out and kind of detaches instead of fighting

907
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 3: for Ronda in that moment, which is like very relatable

908
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: for someone in their early twenties and over their head,

909
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 3: but it's so heartbreaking where it's like Ronda needed someone

910
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 3: so badly to show up for her.

911
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Muriel is at this juncture in her life

912
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: not the person to be able to do it.

913
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 3: No, she like can't manage her own shit.

914
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: No, not at all. But she does manage to meet

915
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: this man who is looking for his wife. His name

916
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 2: is David van Arkle and he's a swimmer who's trying

917
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: to compete in the Olympics for Australia because he's from

918
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 2: South Africa and there's a long history of South Africa

919
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: being banned from the Olympics for being an apartheid state. Like,

920
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: so he needs to marry an Australian woman to get

921
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: like a green card or whatever the equivalent is, so

922
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: that he can swim for Australia, and his family is

923
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: willing to pay Muriel ten thousand dollars to marry this guy.

924
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 3: Which is just like a totally different movie. It's like

925
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: it's just so wild how what it intends, Like tonal

926
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 3: Shift that is again.

927
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 2: And so she meets this guy David, and Muriel's swooning

928
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 2: over him because he's hot, handsome, and he's got a

929
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: good physique and stuff.

930
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 3: But to the point where it's like he doesn't she doesn't,

931
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 3: or maybe she's so accustomed to being negged in front

932
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: of her very eyes, because that's how her father, acts.

933
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 2: And her friend, her former friends and her friends.

934
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 3: Just like she's just so used to being negged to

935
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: her face that David is like yucky, I don't like

936
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 3: her to his like weird coach, and Muriel's like.

937
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: Whatever, I'm like no, right. She seems thrilled at the

938
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 2: idea of marrying him. He seems repulsed by her, but

939
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: she breezes past that and.

940
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 3: He'll give her, you know, ten thousand dollars that will

941
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 3: allow her to extract herself from this financial obligation to

942
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 3: her family.

943
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, so whin when so a wedding gets arranged

944
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: between Muriel and David and there's a lot of media

945
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: attention around it since David is this like star athlete,

946
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 2: so she like gets in the tabloids and stuff like that.

947
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: Cut to the wedding, Ronda is reluctantly there with her mother, Tanya,

948
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: Cheryl and those women are there is Muriel's bridesmaids because

949
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: they kind of came crawling back.

950
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: That made my blood boil. I was so mad at

951
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 3: Muriel in that moment for because you're like, oh, she

952
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 3: grow up, she needs to grow up like she does. Yeah,

953
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: she does. Honestly, I was like nice of Ronda to

954
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 3: even show up.

955
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: She's there quite reluctantly.

956
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 3: It also feels like Ronda's doing something that like I've

957
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 3: never done this at a wedding, but I've definitely done

958
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 3: it at various events, just like showing up to be

959
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: like here I am and how bad does it feel

960
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 3: to see me right now? Yeah, it feels like Ronda's

961
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 3: pulling one of those and I respect that totally.

962
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 2: So they're there. Bryce is there for some reason.

963
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 3: Again, just like another character that we really only encounter

964
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: once or twice, who is given. I thought like sort

965
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 3: of this deeper lore by showing up later where it

966
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 3: seems like he first of all, he's dressed like he's

967
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 3: going to a funeral, which felt intentional. He's wearing all black,

968
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 3: and I think it's implied that like he's upset things

969
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 3: didn't work out between him and Muriel, and like he

970
00:56:56,200 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 3: seems really sad that she's getting married to someone else. Yeah,

971
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 3: which is just a lot of lare. Even though he

972
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 3: never speaks again, I don't think, No.

973
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: He doesn't. We don't see him on screen. I don't

974
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: think after this either, sometimes I was like, maybe I

975
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: don't really get Australian humor. Is this supposed to be

976
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: a joke?

977
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: I think so. I mean I feel like the whole

978
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 3: the whole wedding is like a combination of being a joke,

979
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 3: but it's also like it's I found it genuinely unsettling

980
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: to watch, Like though it is kind of like a

981
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: horror movie in the way it plays out.

982
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it does kind of remind you of Carrie

983
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: in like the prompt scene where she's like so excited

984
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 2: to have one prom queen. Meanwhile, maryel is like grinning

985
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: ear to ear. This is like her what she has

986
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 2: been conditioned to think is supposed to be like, you know,

987
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 2: the happiest day of her life. And she's so ecstatic

988
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 2: she's getting married, which is what she's always wanted. And

989
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that it's a sham marriage to a

990
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: man who is disgusted by her. She's still like.

991
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: It's it's devastating. And the way, and again it is

992
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 3: like the way Tony Kleett like manages to straddle how

993
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 3: tragic that is with how funny she is. We're like

994
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 3: the huge spile and the like yeah, la like contrasted

995
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 3: with people looking like they're at a funeral, like it's

996
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 3: really unsettling and a little bit funny, and it's yeah,

997
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 3: it is like I feel like the Carrie. That's a

998
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: really good comparison and like somehow even worse than that,

999
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 3: because we know that Muriel views marriage as a path

1000
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 3: to feeling seen and feeling validated and as a potential

1001
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: way to love herself. It's not like she doesn't fully

1002
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 3: understand that the marriage is fake, Like she knows that

1003
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 3: that's not something that she's going to be confronted by later.

1004
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 3: That was like in the text. So it's like she's

1005
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: smiling because she's and thinks that she's about to be

1006
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: able to love herself for the first time. It has

1007
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 3: like which isn't you know whatever. I mean, they're doing

1008
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 3: a business transaction. I don't really care about David's apartheid

1009
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 3: ass feelings so like, but but it's like she knows

1010
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 3: what's happening and is still so thrilled because of how

1011
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 3: she's been conditioned to view marriage. And it's so like,

1012
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 3: I feel like the moment you see her happiest is

1013
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 3: like I think it's Tanya. They all have very similar

1014
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 3: hair colors. Who looks at Muriel in her wedding dress

1015
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: and says like kind of in horror, like Muriel, you're beautiful,

1016
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 3: and she's like glowing at like hearing that from these

1017
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 3: women who have bullied her her entire life. And yeah,

1018
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 3: it's just like she's looking I mean, that's like Muriel's again,

1019
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 3: and it's like, how can you falter for that? I

1020
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 3: think all of us have done this to some extent,

1021
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 3: and everyone has had someone in their life that has

1022
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 3: been a more extreme exam it of like looking for

1023
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 3: validation from the people who are cruelest to them instead

1024
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 3: of focusing on themselves. And then you're just like you

1025
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 3: just want to shake her and be like Ronda's right

1026
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 3: over there, like when you stop talking to these people

1027
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 3: that But that's just I don't know. I just this

1028
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 3: movie is so good because you're like this is just

1029
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 3: like an abusive cycle that Muriel is caught up in, no,

1030
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 3: and like she's seeking out validation and love from people

1031
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 3: who just are not capable of it.

1032
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminded me of eighth grade because that's the

1033
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 2: journey that the Kayla character goes on throughout the whole movie.

1034
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: I was also so devastated because in this wedding scene,

1035
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 2: the one other character besides Ronda, who seems like she

1036
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 2: truly cares for Muriel and her well being. Is Muriel's mom,

1037
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 2: And she shows up at the wedding and she's late,

1038
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: but she's there like she had to take a cat

1039
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 2: like all that. Like her father was there to like

1040
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 2: give her away, and he'll so very cruelly. He's like,

1041
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: she's yours now, sir, Like.

1042
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 3: Well, and it's also like her her father is there

1043
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: because it makes him look good to be there again.

1044
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 3: It's like everything with him is selfish.

1045
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: It's about image, yeah, yeah, elevating his image. Her mom comes,

1046
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: she's alone, she's brought this gift that she's clearly intending

1047
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: to give to Mariel. Mariel completely like breezes past her

1048
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 2: and ignores her own mother, and.

1049
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 3: She starts crying and she starts crying, Oh my god.

1050
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 2: And then things just only get sadder from there with

1051
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: her mother. But I was just like, oh, like, Mariel,

1052
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 2: the people who love you, they are there for you,

1053
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 2: and you're like blowing them off, and it's so so sad.

1054
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: She needs to grow up.

1055
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: It's really sad. Yeah, And I'm also like she's like

1056
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 3: twenty two, like it's but but it. Yeah, the stuff

1057
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 3: with her mom again, it's I it's so it felt

1058
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 3: very I'm trying to think of a less corny way

1059
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 3: to say subversive, but let's just say it. But the

1060
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 3: way that the family is introduced at the beginning, at least,

1061
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: like I was not expecting to get so much depth

1062
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 3: in those characters, Like I'm so used to seeing like

1063
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 3: this is the family that she wants to get away from,

1064
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 3: and wouldn't you they suck, you know, And as time

1065
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 3: goes on, it's like, I mean, at least the way

1066
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 3: that Bill sucks is relentless, but it is so much

1067
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 3: more complicated and specific than you're you know, led to believe.

1068
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 3: And and the ways that her mother is just like ignored,

1069
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 3: the dynamic among the siblings, like it's not you know,

1070
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 3: like Dostoyevsky, but but there's a lot of depth to

1071
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 3: the way that this family processes having to know each other.

1072
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 3: I agree.

1073
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so many movies of a similar ilk or

1074
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 2: that would be sort of like maybe lumped in with

1075
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 2: this movie because wedding is in the title, have such

1076
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 2: tropy stock characters as far as like I mean, the

1077
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 2: leads also, but especially the like, you know, the family,

1078
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: you know, the mom and the dad, or the siblings

1079
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 2: or the best friends. And this movie takes time to

1080
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: show you how all of these characters are. They feel

1081
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: like real people. They aren't these tropy stock characters. They

1082
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 2: have layers, there's layers to them.

1083
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 3: It's shreky in it. Sure it's stree, but they're But

1084
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 3: but it's also because I mean, and I know the

1085
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 3: movie so it's over. But the like, I have complicated

1086
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 3: feelings towards the way that the Cruel Friends are portrayed,

1087
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: because they are sort of made out to be, you know,

1088
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: like sort of the brain dead bimbo stereotype. Right. But

1089
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 3: the reason I'm inclined to give this at least some

1090
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 3: of a pass is because of the like stock characters

1091
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 3: we're talking about, where, you know, the Cruel Friends are

1092
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 3: usually the protagonists in these movies, and Muriel is a

1093
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 3: side character. Someone with a disability is fully a side

1094
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 3: character that you don't get any insight into their inner life.

1095
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 3: Muriel's family they're like, you wouldn't know a thing about them.

1096
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 3: So it's weirdly like the people that you're used to

1097
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 3: seeing as protagonists, even like Bryce kind of disappearing when

1098
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 3: he seemed to be introduced as like, here's the love interest,

1099
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 3: just kidding, like he'll show up onths later. It just

1100
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 3: feels like, yeah, you're meeting these stock characters and then

1101
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 3: seeing them either deepened or written off in a way

1102
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 3: that they usually wouldn't be, and it's hard to be

1103
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: mad at it.

1104
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting. Yeah, so uh, let's see what happens next.

1105
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 2: The wedding happens afterward, Ronda confronts Muriel for being a phony,

1106
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: because Muriel's like, my girlfriends who dumped me, they came

1107
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: crawling back because I'm famous.

1108
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 3: My bullies are literally obsessed with me. I was like,

1109
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 3: come on.

1110
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: Right, And Ronda's like, okay, well that is not impressive

1111
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 2: number one number two, I have to move back to

1112
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: Porpoise spit because you abandoned me. And she says, ooh,

1113
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 2: this is my favorite line. She says, maryel van Arkle

1114
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 2: is not half the person that Muriel heslop was.

1115
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 3: So true, so true. I just yeah, it's it's great.

1116
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 3: And then the fact that Ronda is then doomed to

1117
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 3: also hang out this bummer group of girls. I'm just like,

1118
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: oh my god, I was using why she goes along

1119
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 3: with that I would sooner be alone. I'm assuming that

1120
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 3: it's like it seems like when we see them together later,

1121
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 3: it seems like Ronda's mom invited them over. I think

1122
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 3: they're at Ronda's place. Yeah, because her so I think Ronda,

1123
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 3: like Ronda's mom was trying to like force Ronda to

1124
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 3: socialize with people she didn't like.

1125
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 2: Right because earlier, earlier in the movie, Ronda says, I'd

1126
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 2: rather swallow rite of blades than have drinks with the

1127
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 2: lux of you.

1128
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 3: And you're like, and the way the things end with them,

1129
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 3: well we have let's just get to the end of

1130
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 3: the movie.

1131
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So Ronda calls Muriel out back in Porpoise

1132
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 2: spit Betty, Mariel's mom accidentally takes some shoes from a

1133
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: store without paying for them, and the same woman.

1134
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 3: Because her feet, her feet her mm hmm.

1135
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: And she paid for everything else. It just seems like

1136
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 2: she forgot to pay for and she has so much

1137
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 2: on her mind. Her family hates her and they're cruel

1138
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 2: to her.

1139
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 3: And it was also like and now that she's been

1140
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 3: abandoned by her husband, like she's never been more alone

1141
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 3: in taking care of the family, because she was like

1142
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 3: asking for basic help from her adult children and husband

1143
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 3: when things were quote unquote normal and everyone was saying no.

1144
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 3: So now it's like her work has been compounded even

1145
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 3: worse and everyone is still ignoring her. Who wouldn't shoplift

1146
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 3: under these circumstances.

1147
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 2: True, but she gets in trouble because the same woman

1148
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: who got Muriel arrested for stealing the dress. She narks

1149
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 2: on Betty.

1150
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 3: What a callback wild who thought we would see Diane again?

1151
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 2: Wasn't expecting her to make a return. But this is

1152
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,439
Speaker 2: when Bill tells Betty that he wants a divorce. He's

1153
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 2: like leaving her once and for all.

1154
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 3: After he does the thing that he does, the fucking

1155
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 3: everybody and basically sweet talks Betty out of like having

1156
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 3: to serve any time because he's like, oh, I you know,

1157
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 3: all cops are my friends, which is like a red flag, right,

1158
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 3: But he's super nice to protect ostensibly to protect Betty,

1159
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 3: but it's just to protect his reputation absolutely, because he

1160
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:25,759
Speaker 3: immediately becomes extremely cruel to her this and it's also, oh,

1161
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 3: it just made me so I hate him so much.

1162
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 3: Like the when they're on the way back and she

1163
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 3: was like, I meant to pay for it and like,

1164
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 3: I'm so tired, I really just need some help. And

1165
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 3: then he just turns the radio on and starts ignoring her,

1166
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, why won't your head explode?

1167
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 2: Like it's tell me about it, nightmare. And then he

1168
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 2: tells her he's like divorcing her, and then he says

1169
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 2: the reason he wasn't elected to state government when he

1170
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: ran previously was because his family was such an embarrassment.

1171
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 3: I really thought for a second, because at this point,

1172
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 3: I'm like, this anything could happen in this movie. I

1173
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 3: was sort of hoping that she was gonna like shoot him,

1174
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 3: kill him. I sort of thought for a second, I

1175
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 3: was like, I wouldn't be mad if she simply shot him.

1176
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 2: I would wove for her to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1177
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 2: But instead she's devastated. She lashes out at her son

1178
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 2: for not mowing the lawn. I think, or yeah, he's

1179
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 2: right there, and like this is the first moment we

1180
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 2: see her kind of breakdown, and then Betty dies A

1181
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 2: short time later. Maryel is told that it was a

1182
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: heart attack, but we find out that Betty died by suicide.

1183
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 3: And that this and this again just like such a

1184
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 3: fucking twist of the knife because we find this out

1185
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 3: from a character who Joni, Muriel's sister, who were introduced

1186
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 3: to in this very like one liner jokey way, because

1187
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 3: every time we heard from Joni, she's like your terrible Mariel,

1188
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 3: like that's her like catch phrase, and she's like the

1189
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 3: younger sister I think, who always is like, haha, you're

1190
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 3: in trouble. And that's kind of the only thing we've

1191
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 3: known about her other than she rips SIGs hanging out

1192
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 3: on the couch. That's what we know about this character.

1193
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 3: But then you get like this moment of incredible depth

1194
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 3: into this character in a way that you just like

1195
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 3: aren't expecting. Where Joni found her mother's body, Yeah, was

1196
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 3: able to glean that it had been a fatal pill

1197
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 3: overdose and that the doctor had covered this up at

1198
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 3: the father's request because quote unquote he's been through enough,

1199
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 3: and so the fact that it was still like this

1200
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 3: poor woman's like final cry for help was not going

1201
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 3: to be heard because of the person who is abusive

1202
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 3: and horrible to her, like it's just uh, and then

1203
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 3: the way he acts at the funeral, it's just like

1204
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 3: But anyways, that that moment with Joanie is like really perfect.

1205
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,839
Speaker 3: I mean, she's like the it seems like the brothers

1206
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 3: are kind of in shock. Weirdly, the youngest daughter seems

1207
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 3: like she's inviting her crushes to the funeral question of Mark.

1208
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 3: That was weird.

1209
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't I forgot she was one of the siblings

1210
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 2: half the time, because I think we don't see her

1211
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: in some of like the dinner scenes or something, or

1212
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 2: she's like focus.

1213
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 3: Everyone processes death differently whatever, But like, but just seeing

1214
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 3: Jonie in that moment, be like what am I going

1215
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 3: to do without her? And realize like, oh, yeah, they

1216
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 3: were extremely close and like almost every time you see Joni,

1217
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 3: she's with her mom, and and that before the movie's over.

1218
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 3: In a way that it is also kind of made

1219
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 3: me feel sad, was that you could already see sort

1220
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: of the beginning stages of Jonie beginning to fill the

1221
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 3: role that her mother filled in her in her dad's

1222
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 3: life of like, you know, then she like hollers down

1223
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 3: to him from the balcony and is like, games on,

1224
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 3: want me to get you a beer? And it's like

1225
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 3: the daughter sort of filling this servile role that the

1226
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 3: mom filled and to someone who just like couldn't deserve

1227
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,480
Speaker 3: love less.

1228
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 2: It's just got I know this.

1229
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 3: This movie is about breaking out of the cycle of abuse.

1230
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 2: I know. And then you mentioned so. The funeral is

1231
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 2: the next scene, and we see that Bill piece of

1232
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: shit that he is, is more concerned about how the

1233
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 2: press perceive him.

1234
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 3: It's clear he like called the press to be like,

1235
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 3: you're gonna want to come to my what my wife's funeral?

1236
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: Wife's funeral? And he doesn't seem to be grieving at all,

1237
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:58,720
Speaker 2: or it's just he's so horrible. And this is the

1238
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 2: moment that Mauriel realizes not only what a prick her

1239
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 2: dad is, but that she is similar to him in

1240
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 2: the sense that she cares too much about what other

1241
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 2: people think of her. She has lied to people and

1242
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 2: sabotaged meaningful relationships along the way, and she doesn't want

1243
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 2: to be like that anymore. She breaks down her husband,

1244
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: David Van Arkle.

1245
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 3: Who again like this is a a It seems like

1246
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 3: another movie is about to start, and then it does

1247
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 3: it and you're like, yay, but I was like, oh,

1248
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 3: he came what he came to the funeral?

1249
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 2: He consults her, this is the first time he's been

1250
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 2: any manner of like tender toward her, which feels kind of.

1251
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 3: Like a payoff of one of the few interactions we've

1252
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 3: seen with them before, another very depressing movie, very depressing

1253
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 3: scene in a movie that's full of them. But when

1254
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 3: they get back to his like fancy apartment after their

1255
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 3: wedding and you know, all the pretenses are dropped and

1256
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 3: he's like, all right, there's your room. I'm gonna go swim,

1257
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 3: and like can kind of feel how meaningful the wedding

1258
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 3: was to Muriel and asks her like who the hell

1259
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 3: marries someone? Like why would you marry someone who's a stranger?

1260
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 3: And she's like, well, you dude just said that and

1261
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 3: he's like, well, it's because I want to win, and

1262
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 3: she's like so do I, and like they're talking about

1263
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,879
Speaker 3: totally different things, but you see that that like affects

1264
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 3: him in some way. But you're like, I don't know

1265
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 3: if that's but it clearly it does come back because

1266
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 3: whatever thought this you know, fucking goof is capable of having,

1267
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,680
Speaker 3: at least it was like, oh, I was viewing this

1268
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 3: person as a warm body and it turns out that

1269
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 3: they're a fucking person, which is a very low bar

1270
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 3: to clear, but many.

1271
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 2: Do not clear it this is true, but yeah, he

1272
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: consoles her as she's crying. They kiss, and I think

1273
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 2: it is implied that they have sex. Yeah, but the

1274
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,919
Speaker 2: next morning she's like, I'm leaving. We have to break up, goodbye,

1275
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: And then her dad is like, Muriel, I need you

1276
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 2: to stay and help me raise the kids. Even though

1277
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 2: like how old are these kids? It seems like there's

1278
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 2: maybe one under eighteen?

1279
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought so too.

1280
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: They're like the youngest daughter is she's like a teenager,

1281
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,719
Speaker 2: a teenager, but yeah, the rest of them seem pretty

1282
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 2: close to, if not in fully adulthood.

1283
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 3: Yes, we also learn that in the sort of towards

1284
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 3: the end of Muriel's mother's life that she burned the

1285
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 3: lawn because she was so frustrated that she wasn't able

1286
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 3: to get help with it. It just seemed like there was

1287
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 3: a lot of struggling that Muriel at very least didn't see,

1288
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 3: and I think to some extent with the kids without

1289
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 3: putting the blak because it is like pretty squarely on

1290
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 3: the father, but like a struggle that they weren't comfortable seeing, right.

1291
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 2: I think it's probably a combination of her mom was

1292
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 2: like good at hiding her various problems, and also that

1293
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 2: Muriel and her siblings were wilfully ignoring any signs that

1294
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,640
Speaker 2: their mother was struggling because they didn't want to be

1295
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 2: bothered with it, or they were too focused on themselves

1296
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 2: or whatever else along those lines.

1297
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 3: And I think that there is this I want to

1298
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 3: be very careful with the way that I phrase this,

1299
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 3: but it's a dynamic that is familiar to me, not

1300
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 3: in like my specific family dynamic, but whatever I've seen

1301
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 3: it of kids perceiving specifically mothers, usually as weak and

1302
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 3: as targets of mockery in a lot of cases, and like,

1303
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 3: I don't want to be like her kind of thing

1304
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 3: without you know, considering how she got there, And yeah,

1305
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 3: like that, it just feels like a very specific dynamic

1306
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 3: that I haven't really seen a lot in movies. And

1307
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 3: also that like to some extent that Betty was didn't

1308
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 3: want her kids see her struggle because she doesn't want

1309
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,640
Speaker 3: to worry her kids, and like we see that in

1310
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 3: scenes where you know, she's again very willfully ignoring the

1311
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 3: fact that Muriel has obviously stolen this money, and it's like,

1312
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 3: maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was my fault.

1313
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 3: I don't know anything's possible. And Muriel's honest, and she

1314
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 3: still doesn't want to quite want to hear it. She

1315
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 3: doesn't want to quite tell her kids why, like but

1316
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 3: only that's another reason where when you get that information

1317
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 3: later that Jonie was the one to find that she

1318
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 3: died by suicide, and that Jonie seems to be the

1319
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 3: only sibling who knows why their dad is gone, it's like, oh,

1320
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 3: these two characters had it, Like Jonie was her confidant,

1321
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 3: because Janie is the one that calls Muriel and it's like, yeah,

1322
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 3: Dad like left her. But then when confronted about it,

1323
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 3: Betty is like, oh no, don't worry about it. Oh

1324
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 3: I've got to go. We're getting raided by the government. Yeah,

1325
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 3: you're just like cut o. God, Like, I just hope

1326
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 3: in her next life, this this fictional character caught a

1327
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 3: fucking break, Like it just is so But yeah, I

1328
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 3: don't know, like it it's so tragic what happens to her.

1329
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I mean, I thought that the

1330
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 3: movie showed a lot of care and thought towards her

1331
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 3: in a way that I wasn't used to in this genre.

1332
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 2: Totally I agree, and I was I mean the moments

1333
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: that were the most gut right and chinked to me.

1334
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 2: We're surrounding the Betty character because she's just so abused

1335
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:13,720
Speaker 2: and neglected by her husband, by her children. She's just

1336
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 2: seems to be kind of waiting on people hand and foot,

1337
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 2: and no one is grateful, and no one checks in

1338
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 2: with her, and no one cares about how she feels

1339
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 2: and life it seems like except for Jonie right right.

1340
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 2: And Muriel is again too busy wrapped up in her

1341
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 2: own image and getting married to whoever will marry her

1342
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 2: to notice all the things that's going on with her mother,

1343
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 2: and it's just, oh, it's devastating.

1344
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1345
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 2: But so there's this moment where her dad, Bill is like,

1346
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 2: you have to stay and help me raise the kids,

1347
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 2: and Muriel's like, no, I don't, that's actually your job

1348
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 2: as a parent. So goodbye, and she leaves. She goes

1349
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 2: to Ronda's house, who, like we mentioned before, is hanging

1350
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 2: out with Tanya.

1351
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 3: She's basically been kidnapped like her I think her mom

1352
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 3: is like forcing her to hang out with these assholes.

1353
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 2: Yes, And Mariel comes in and she asks Ronda to

1354
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 2: move back to Sydney with her, and Ronda, who is

1355
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 2: still upset with Muriel, is like whoelm okay, I forgive you.

1356
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,479
Speaker 2: Let's go, and they get in a cab and the

1357
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 2: movie ends with the two of them yelling out the

1358
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 2: car windows saying like goodbye to the streets and the

1359
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 2: malls and the beaches of Porpoise. Spit and so let's

1360
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:56,839
Speaker 2: take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss further, and.

1361
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 3: We're back will I've already talked about a lot of

1362
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,720
Speaker 3: elements of the movie in the abstract that was By

1363
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 3: the way, kudos on the recap. That was not an

1364
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 3: easy recap.

1365
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. I tried to make it as like

1366
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 2: concise as possible, but again, just so much happens. There's

1367
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 2: so many tonal and narrative shifts throughout this movie that

1368
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 2: it was difficult. But I did my best. You did

1369
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 2: a wonderful jop, Oh, thank you saving much.

1370
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 3: There is one thing I just wanted to add to

1371
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 3: the tale end. I guess that could get a conversation

1372
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 3: started or not whatever. But with her dad towards the

1373
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 3: end of the movie, I think the last scene he

1374
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 3: appears in where like you said, like he's like Muriel,

1375
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to raise your adult siblings for me,

1376
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:52,280
Speaker 3: And she's like, no, I don't think so, pretty sure

1377
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 3: that you should have been doing that for twenty something

1378
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 3: years at this point. Yeah, but that her dad. I

1379
01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 3: don't even know how to feel about it, because he

1380
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 3: is like, it seems like he has a moment of

1381
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 3: self awareness that I didn't think he was capable of having.

1382
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 3: So I was a little bumped by it. It sort

1383
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 3: of felt like it was like trying to knit a

1384
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 3: bow on it where he it seems like the person

1385
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 3: that we've spent time with this whole time would be like, well,

1386
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 3: go fuck yourself, goodbye forever, like be cruel. But the Yeah,

1387
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 3: so this was a little schmalzy for me, But I

1388
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 3: did think it was an interesting choice that he kind

1389
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 3: of has this moment of lucidity and is like, you

1390
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 3: reap what you sew. It is basically admitting like everyone

1391
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,560
Speaker 3: is leaving me because I have been nothing but selfish

1392
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 3: and which again just like really packs a gut punch

1393
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 3: for when Jonie calls down to him a character who

1394
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 3: he is also abused and lambasted as much as he

1395
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 3: has to anyone else in the family and she's like,

1396
01:22:57,840 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 3: what can I get for you? And you know, it

1397
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 3: just seems like she's mimicking the behavior that she saw

1398
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 3: in her mom of you know, like taking care of

1399
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 3: people even when they're horrible to you. And I don't know,

1400
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 3: I mean again, it's it's a very sad note to

1401
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 3: leave things on but his I don't know, she can

1402
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,280
Speaker 3: we can we talk a little bit more about her mom? Yeah,

1403
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 3: just because I mean so much of the movie, the

1404
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,639
Speaker 3: end of it becomes about her mom. Where we were

1405
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,760
Speaker 3: getting at this in the recap where it's such a

1406
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 3: complicated thing because it's it's very clear that like Betty

1407
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 3: is so struggling with depression and it seems like she

1408
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 3: uses denial as a tool to get through the day basically,

1409
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 3: and then the reference that she had been taking sleeping

1410
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,559
Speaker 3: pills for a while, which is also like possibly a

1411
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 3: self medication technique, Like you know, that her life was

1412
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 3: not easy and she'd been conditioned to believe that no

1413
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 3: one was ever going to care about it. But that also,

1414
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 3: I mean that it's a tricky and I guess I'll

1415
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 3: just like leave it this because I don't know how

1416
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 3: to properly have this conversation really but how her being

1417
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 3: put in this horrible position by her abusive husband also

1418
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 3: means that her self medicating and you know, sort of

1419
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 3: willfully passively allowing him to continue his reign of terror

1420
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 3: has negative effect on her kids. And it's tricky because

1421
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to victim blame her, But in parental

1422
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 3: situations like that, especially, it's so hard to talk about

1423
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 3: because there's like a wounded part of me that's like, well,

1424
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,719
Speaker 3: isn't she kind of enabling this abuse towards her children

1425
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 3: by never calling it out when it's happening right in

1426
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 3: front of her, which of course is an offshoot of

1427
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:51,600
Speaker 3: her being abused and probably fear of retaliation from her

1428
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,400
Speaker 3: husband and all of these horrible things. But in the

1429
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 3: same way, it's I mean, it's just a very sad

1430
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 3: situation to see because it's like he, you know, the father,

1431
01:25:01,600 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 3: is laying into any of his kids at any given opportunity,

1432
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 3: and she's very often right there and kind of pretends

1433
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 3: it doesn't isn't happening, or will say something behind his back,

1434
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 3: but not to It's just it's just really sad to

1435
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 3: take a family that's like so thoroughly abused, especially by

1436
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 3: someone as narcissistic as Bill, who will turn on the

1437
01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 3: charm anytime someone who isn't his family is in the room.

1438
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, it's effective because it's so

1439
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:42,679
Speaker 2: emblematic of real dynamics. I think, like we're so used

1440
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 2: to watching Hollywood movies that often like sugarcoat these things

1441
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:54,200
Speaker 2: or ignore them, or if there is an abusive family dynamic,

1442
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 2: it's portrayed in this trophy way or like jokey or

1443
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: cartoonish way or something. And this being like an indie

1444
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:11,840
Speaker 2: Australian movie, we were like, oh, this actually resembles authentic

1445
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 2: human dynamics. Obviously not all of them, but like, this

1446
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 2: is this is a familiar dynamic that I've observed in

1447
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 2: other people. I mean, there are It's not a one

1448
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 2: for one, but I've I kind of saw a little

1449
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,520
Speaker 2: bit of my family in.

1450
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,720
Speaker 3: Sure Likewise, likewise.

1451
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 2: Where like my dad is a narcissist, he was not

1452
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 2: outwardly cruel to my siblings and I, but he was

1453
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 2: certainly like emotionally negligent. And then like my mom would

1454
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 2: try to challenge it sometimes, but usually it was easier

1455
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 2: for her to just kind of like power through and

1456
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 2: do the best buy her kids as she could. And

1457
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 2: I feel like we weren't always as great well as

1458
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,719
Speaker 2: we should have been for our mom's attempts at keeping

1459
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 2: things stable in the household, and we didn't do a

1460
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: great job of considering how she might be feeling and

1461
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Yeah, so I was like, oh, this,

1462
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 2: there's some familiar stuff. I've experienced variations of this in

1463
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 2: my own life.

1464
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of an aunt

1465
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 3: and uncle that like, yeah, I spent a lot of

1466
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 3: time where it's just and how it is portrayed as like,

1467
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 3: you know, on a long enough timeline, this is just

1468
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 3: normal for them, Like, oh, yeah, this is just how,

1469
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,760
Speaker 3: And I think it is. The movie doesn't bash you

1470
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 3: over the head with it, but that Muriel is just

1471
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 3: any time she's nearer her father until the very end

1472
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 3: when he realizes that, you know, he has no more

1473
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 3: power to exert over her. She's not going to go

1474
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:54,040
Speaker 3: back because she's concerned about her mom. Because her mom

1475
01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:58,840
Speaker 3: isn't there, she is no longer financially obligated, Like she's

1476
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,040
Speaker 3: extracted herself from this cycle of abuse that her family's

1477
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 3: caught in. I think it's sad and realistic that the

1478
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 3: whole family is not liberated from it, at least not

1479
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 3: right away. But anyways, towards the beginning where he calls

1480
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 3: her lazy, he points out, like I spent all this

1481
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 3: money on her and she can't even type, and she's like, yes,

1482
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 3: I can, and he's like, no, you can't. He body

1483
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,640
Speaker 3: shames her, like, and it seems like her response to

1484
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:28,160
Speaker 3: that is just like she's tremendously depressed the second she

1485
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 3: leaves her life. I mean, it's a mess because she's

1486
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:35,760
Speaker 3: like twenty one or whatever, but like, but she immediately

1487
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 3: gets a job, Like she immediately is able to do all,

1488
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 3: like live independently in the way that her dad would

1489
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 3: tell her every day she couldn't possibly do. And it's

1490
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 3: like right, because being away from that energy and that

1491
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 3: horribleness is what would allow you to just be a person.

1492
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 3: And it's just I feel like the storytelling does that

1493
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 3: so effortlessly, where it literally is like cut to her

1494
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 3: having a job that she likes, because you could do

1495
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 3: that in the nineties, I think. But I just thought

1496
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 3: it was like, really, yeah, the dad is the source

1497
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 3: of terror is just.

1498
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 2: Like so clear, right, And it also informs probably why

1499
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 2: she puts up with the abuse from Tanya and all

1500
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 2: of those women who are so cruel to her, because

1501
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: when you've become accustomed to abuse, then you going back

1502
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 2: to my family, like my mom was raised by a

1503
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 2: very abusive mother, and she has said to me many

1504
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 2: many times, like that's why I married your dad, who

1505
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 2: was like not good to me. But that's what I knew,

1506
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 2: Like that I tolerated it because that's really all I understood.

1507
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 2: So you have the sense that Maryel hangs out with

1508
01:29:56,479 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 2: these women who are outwardly cruel to her be because

1509
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 2: she has just become accustomed to this abuse from her father,

1510
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 2: and then she starts to I mean, it takes her

1511
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 2: a little while to liberate herself from it. But this

1512
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:16,560
Speaker 2: friendship with Rhonda is, like you said, like the catalyst

1513
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 2: that gets her on a path of liberation. And that's

1514
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 2: like the core, what like the core of the movie

1515
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 2: as far as like I read it, it is like, yeah,

1516
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 2: you know, as far as like Muriel's arc, I wanted

1517
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: to get into that a little bit because yeah, again,

1518
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: Muriel starts out as this person who's lying to people,

1519
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 2: she's stealing dresses, she's trying to fit in with this

1520
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 2: crowd who doesn't want her. She ends up marrying a

1521
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 2: guy who seems repulsed by her, just so she can

1522
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 2: say she's gotten married. She's like basically living a false life. Meanwhile,

1523
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 2: throughout this she has made one actual friend in Ronda.

1524
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 2: She's the one person in Mariel's life aside from her mom,

1525
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 2: who accepts Mariel for who she is. Ronda doesn't tolerate

1526
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 2: Maryel being like dishonest and phony, and we see her

1527
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 2: call Maryel out for that, But when she's being an honest,

1528
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 2: genuine person, Ronda loves Mariel for who she is. But

1529
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:30,120
Speaker 2: when you know Ronda needs her the most, Mariel abandons

1530
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 2: her in favor of this wedding and all the attention

1531
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 2: she's getting, Yeah, because she's finally living out this fantasy.

1532
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 2: And then Mariel's arc culminates partly because she sees how

1533
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:47,680
Speaker 2: horrible her father is being at her mother's funeral. She

1534
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 2: realizes that she's living this sham life that she's been,

1535
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 2: you know, as disingenuous as her shitty father. And then

1536
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:00,680
Speaker 2: she leaves it all behind to reunite with which is

1537
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 2: like a very interesting story and not one that you

1538
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 2: generally see because one it shows a woman who's a

1539
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 2: mess in a way that again just feels authentic to

1540
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:14,759
Speaker 2: real life.

1541
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not misogynists. It's just like you are given

1542
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 3: all the information that you need to understand, however misguided

1543
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 3: and occasionally very selfish. What Muriel is doing is you

1544
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 3: understand where it's coming from, and like you're rooting for

1545
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,640
Speaker 3: her to do better, and I get It's like, I

1546
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 3: kind of love how the movie teases you with a

1547
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:39,599
Speaker 3: potentially really shitty ending right at the end where like

1548
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 3: she opens the church door and her fake husband's there

1549
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:48,679
Speaker 3: and he maybe likes her now, but and I think again,

1550
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 3: like a lesser movie would be like, oh, they're gonna

1551
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 3: fall in love. But then she but it's like the

1552
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,759
Speaker 3: strongest she ever is that she's like I don't love

1553
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 3: you like I Yeah, it's and you're just like woo.

1554
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 3: And he's like I don't love you either, but you

1555
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 3: could live with me, and she's like no.

1556
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:10,840
Speaker 2: And serves more than that.

1557
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 3: I really love that moment. Yeah, that like she's able

1558
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 3: to see I don't know. I mean, God, may everyone

1559
01:33:21,439 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 3: be so lucky to realize in their early twenties that

1560
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:28,120
Speaker 3: they're repeating the mistakes of their parents, and I was like, yeah,

1561
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 3: that's in some ways it is a fantasy film, but I'm.

1562
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:34,840
Speaker 2: Sure some people have managed to do it.

1563
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean, yeah, her friendship with Ronda is

1564
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 3: so life changing and so like life affirming and yeah.

1565
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah right, because like we see Maryel being a mess

1566
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 2: for the bulk of the movie, but it's very different

1567
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 2: from that like rom com version, like Hollywood rom conversion

1568
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 2: of a woman who's a mess quote unquote, because that

1569
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 2: always feels very cart tony and trophy, and it's like

1570
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:07,800
Speaker 2: she's a mess because she's single and she works too

1571
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 2: much at her magazine job and that's why she's single,

1572
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:14,520
Speaker 2: and she just needs a boyfriend to cure her messiness.

1573
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:18,200
Speaker 2: And we don't get any of that with the Murial character.

1574
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:20,679
Speaker 2: And that's another thing that's so interesting about this movie

1575
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 2: because so many movies from this era that central woman

1576
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:28,599
Speaker 2: as a protagonist are about her finding hetero love and

1577
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,920
Speaker 2: that being the thing that fulfills her. But this movie

1578
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 2: is about her personal growth and her solid friendship or

1579
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 2: like perhaps because of a solid friendship with another woman

1580
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 2: who supports her and cares for her.

1581
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 3: And I love that.

1582
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:47,000
Speaker 2: It's a great.

1583
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 3: Movie exactly exactly I mean, and also that I mean

1584
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:53,080
Speaker 3: all of us fakes. Like the title, the title is

1585
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 3: basically a joke where you know, she becomes I mean,

1586
01:34:57,640 --> 01:35:00,160
Speaker 3: she becomes disabused of all of these things because is

1587
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 3: basically a coming of age movie of everything that she's

1588
01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 3: told is going to like make her the right kind

1589
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 3: of person, which at the beginning of the movie she

1590
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 3: so badly wants to be, to the point that she's

1591
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 3: being very or she's been conditioned. I don't want to

1592
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 3: put it all on her, but like she's being very

1593
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 3: self destructive in pursuit of being anybody but herself, and

1594
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:25,719
Speaker 3: marriage is the ultimate way to become a different person

1595
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 3: in the way that she's been socially conditioned, which still

1596
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,960
Speaker 3: happens right, And it's like she's at her saddest when

1597
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 3: she's trying on wedding dresses, she's at her least authentic

1598
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:42,520
Speaker 3: when she's getting married, and at her kind of cruelest

1599
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:45,639
Speaker 3: to the people in her life. She blows off her mom,

1600
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 3: she ignores Rhonda like and then does this sort of

1601
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 3: really condescending like, oh no, I don't want you to

1602
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,200
Speaker 3: hang out with us, I got you a plane ticket,

1603
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 3: and then she's like fuck you Like, so she's at

1604
01:35:57,320 --> 01:36:00,120
Speaker 3: her the sort of like she's at her worst and

1605
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:03,720
Speaker 3: she's living out her fantasy. Yeah, and I you know,

1606
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 3: it's it's a little broad, but it also it just

1607
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,800
Speaker 3: like it works so well in the story of like,

1608
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 3: you know, maybe Muriel will get married someday, but not

1609
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:15,559
Speaker 3: for the reasons that she did the first time, because

1610
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,760
Speaker 3: it seems like she, you know, like really is at

1611
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 3: least well on her way to understanding that that is.

1612
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 3: And I think unfortunately, through a lot of tragedy and

1613
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 3: seeing how tremendously depressed her mother was until the end

1614
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 3: of her life and just knowing that, like she had

1615
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,919
Speaker 3: to move forward another way to do right by herself

1616
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:40,600
Speaker 3: and honestly, I think, to some extent do right by

1617
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:44,040
Speaker 3: her mom's memory too. I think that it is like

1618
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:49,120
Speaker 3: I feel like where they attribute to her mom to

1619
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 3: you know, liberate herself from this dynamic that her mom

1620
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:59,479
Speaker 3: was trapped in. And then Rhonda, I just love this

1621
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 3: broad She's so great. But let let's talk let's talk

1622
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:07,120
Speaker 3: about rod. I mean she I don't know, it is

1623
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:10,559
Speaker 3: really I love seeing friends become friends really fast in

1624
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 3: a convincing way. I love just all of it. And

1625
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:15,479
Speaker 3: they're like, Yep, we're gonna move in together. We're best

1626
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:19,439
Speaker 3: friends now, blah blah blah. She's really horny. She's having

1627
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 3: three ways with sailor American sailors. Whatever. But let's talk

1628
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 3: about Yeah, this is a character who is able bodies

1629
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 3: at the beginning of the movie and is disabled at

1630
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:39,240
Speaker 3: the end of the movie. She's using a wheelchair permanently, which, yeah,

1631
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 3: let's let's talk about it.

1632
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:45,360
Speaker 2: I mean, this one's a little trickier than our than

1633
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:49,800
Speaker 2: most of our conversations surrounding disability, because it's often a

1634
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:54,879
Speaker 2: character who from the moment we see them on screen

1635
01:37:55,160 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 2: till the end of the movie, they are disabled the

1636
01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 2: entire span.

1637
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 3: Mccaulluff Time, macaulay Culkin.

1638
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 2: And Saved right is my go to example. Yeah, right,

1639
01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 2: played by an able bodied actor, which is often the case,

1640
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:17,160
Speaker 2: which is what warrants the criticism. In this case, it's

1641
01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 2: a little trickier because she is able bodied for i'd say,

1642
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 2: like the first half of the time we see her

1643
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:34,320
Speaker 2: on screen, so it makes the casting trickier. I'm inclined

1644
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:36,680
Speaker 2: to give this a little bit of a pass, or

1645
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 2: at least some leeway because of the circumstances of her

1646
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 2: being an able bodied character for part of it. But

1647
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:46,839
Speaker 2: it's tricky.

1648
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 3: It's tricky. I am inclined to agree with you. I

1649
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:53,519
Speaker 3: would also like, I would love to hear what our

1650
01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:57,760
Speaker 3: disabled listeners feel about this character, because obviously weird like

1651
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:01,759
Speaker 3: not the be all and opinion of this. Of course,

1652
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 3: I don't feel qualified to make the call, but I

1653
01:39:04,160 --> 01:39:07,200
Speaker 3: think as as far as how Ronda is written, I

1654
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:11,639
Speaker 3: was like, particularly for nineteen ninety four, pretty impressed with Again,

1655
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 3: it seems to push back on some popular tropes around disability,

1656
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 3: where you know, at the beginning, when I mean just

1657
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 3: the medical frustration that we've both experienced versions of of,

1658
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:29,080
Speaker 3: you know, being talked to either like you're a baby

1659
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 3: or a scientist by a doctor and nothing in between.

1660
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 3: And you know, and and Ronda again, because she's just

1661
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 3: a very blunt person. You know, Muriel's like, what is

1662
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 3: he saying? She's like, he's saying, I'm like fucked but

1663
01:39:43,360 --> 01:39:47,600
Speaker 3: he can't say that, you know, and seeing her frustrations,

1664
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 3: and you know, Muriel's saying something that is coming from

1665
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 3: a good place, but it's something we hear a lot

1666
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 3: around disability of like no, Ronda you're going to walk,

1667
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 3: You're going to walk again, which is her encouraging Ronda

1668
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 3: and doesn't want her to lose hope, which is totally fair,

1669
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 3: but I think also buys into this idea that an

1670
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 3: able bodied life is the only one worth having or

1671
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:14,840
Speaker 3: the only one to strive towards, even though it's not

1672
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 3: you know addressed explicitly you Know Ronda as time when

1673
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:24,040
Speaker 3: we flash forward, like, Ronda is understandably tremendously frustrated and

1674
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:28,720
Speaker 3: sad when she loses the use of her legs and

1675
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 3: struggles with it, but it seems like she's ultimately more

1676
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 3: frustrated that she has to move home than anything else.

1677
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 3: And by the time we see Ronda at Maryelle's wedding,

1678
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 3: she seems like comfortable in her wheel. It's just how

1679
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:48,000
Speaker 3: other people talk to her and treat her that's the problem.

1680
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 3: Where it seems like, when she gets past the initial

1681
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 3: shock and adjustment of living with a disability, that it's

1682
01:40:57,080 --> 01:40:59,439
Speaker 3: mainly other people who are the problem. We see it

1683
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 3: in a so much casual ableism that is explicit in

1684
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:07,160
Speaker 3: the movie. It's like played for laughs to make the

1685
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:11,680
Speaker 3: person doing it look bad because it's the ladies in

1686
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 3: the dress shop where oh my god, what was the

1687
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 3: and like Ronda's like, get the fuck out of my way,

1688
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,680
Speaker 3: where she said you just can't come in here and

1689
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:23,720
Speaker 3: threaten brides, I don't care how unfortunate you are, and

1690
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:27,760
Speaker 3: Ronda says fuck you, which is the only response to

1691
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:32,920
Speaker 3: that sentence. There's a moment with Ronda's mother where Ronda's like,

1692
01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 3: I don't want to sit in the front of the

1693
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 3: wedding because she doesn't really want to be there is

1694
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:41,519
Speaker 3: the reason. But you know, Ronda's mom is very casually like, well, good,

1695
01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 3: you won't be in anyone's way. And then I think

1696
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:48,640
Speaker 3: the most over the top example is the evil Friends

1697
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:52,600
Speaker 3: talking to her like she has died and her being like,

1698
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:54,679
Speaker 3: I'm not ditch Cheryl.

1699
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 2: You're like right, because one of them says something like

1700
01:41:57,200 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 2: you were so full of life and it's like I

1701
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 2: still what am here?

1702
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:01,559
Speaker 3: Right?

1703
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 2: Just because I'm disabled now doesn't change that.

1704
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she's also just she's also telling them that

1705
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 3: she's beat cancer, which is like amazing, Like but yeah.

1706
01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:17,519
Speaker 3: We see her encounter a lot of like quiet and

1707
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:22,679
Speaker 3: loud ableism throughout the movie, and it's always pushed back

1708
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 3: on and again it's just like, I'm sure that it

1709
01:42:27,520 --> 01:42:31,639
Speaker 3: is not a perfect depiction by any means, but I

1710
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 3: appreciated that it was even acknowledged, because I feel like

1711
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:39,760
Speaker 3: so many movies just perpetuate ableism and don't acknowledge that,

1712
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:44,559
Speaker 3: like this is a problem that able bodied people don't

1713
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 3: know how to talk to anybody who isn't like them.

1714
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 2: Like totally. Yeah, I think for like a movie from

1715
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:58,200
Speaker 2: the mid nineties, it does surprisingly well in that regard.

1716
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 2: This is a topic which we can, you know, move

1717
01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 2: on to or address later. But I was kind of

1718
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 2: reminded the same way that you know, characters are hurling

1719
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:16,680
Speaker 2: ablest macro or micro aggressions at Rhonda. There are examples

1720
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:23,519
Speaker 2: of white characters committing racist aggressions in a way that

1721
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,640
Speaker 2: the movie tends to seem to present it as like,

1722
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 2: look at this foolish person saying this foolish thing. But

1723
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 2: at the same time, the movie has a cast of

1724
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:39,840
Speaker 2: almost exclusively white people and certainly only gives interiority to

1725
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:45,519
Speaker 2: the white characters, right, so it kind of undermines the

1726
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 2: spotlight on oh, look how foolish this racist person is.

1727
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:52,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's like there's yeah, I don't want to

1728
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:55,240
Speaker 2: get too specific, because some of them are really gross, but.

1729
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:59,280
Speaker 3: It's mostly anti Asian racism. Yeah, I was noticing a

1730
01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 3: lot of anti a racism and also anti Indigenous racism.

1731
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah right, because there's there's a reference to Bill doing

1732
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 2: a real estate development project on land that Aboriginal people

1733
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:15,440
Speaker 2: had been living on and those Indigenous people were displaced

1734
01:44:15,520 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 2: so that a resort or something could be built, and

1735
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:21,400
Speaker 2: then Bill is talking about this and like carrying on

1736
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:25,519
Speaker 2: as though I deserve recognition for the great work I

1737
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 2: did to build this you know, development, and it's just

1738
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:33,960
Speaker 2: like completely dismissing the you know, the violence and displacement

1739
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:37,439
Speaker 2: toward the Aboriginal people who we don't see on screen

1740
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:41,000
Speaker 2: or never meet any Aboriginal people in this movie. So

1741
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 2: it's we do.

1742
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:46,559
Speaker 3: Meet Aboriginal people in the other movie that stars that

1743
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:48,160
Speaker 3: actor that came out that year.

1744
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:52,439
Speaker 2: But yes, which we discussed and you can go back, and.

1745
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:56,720
Speaker 3: Also has its own problems. Yeah, but yeah, no, I

1746
01:44:56,840 --> 01:45:01,120
Speaker 3: felt like, you know, the reason for me, and again

1747
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:04,240
Speaker 3: it's not for me to make this call, but part

1748
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 3: of the reason that I didn't find the movie to

1749
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 3: be tremendously ablest is because we have a disabled character

1750
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:18,560
Speaker 3: who we love and who pushes back against the ableism

1751
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:22,160
Speaker 3: and like loves and accepts herself. It's the circumstance she's

1752
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:25,840
Speaker 3: frustrated with right, but with the it seems like they're

1753
01:45:25,880 --> 01:45:28,920
Speaker 3: trying to go for a similar thing. But it's like,

1754
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 3: if your cast is all white excepting very passing, you know, interactions,

1755
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 3: then those jokes are not gonna land, at least for us,

1756
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 3: not particularly well, because there's no one there to push

1757
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:46,919
Speaker 3: back on it. So it's just like, haha, they are racist,

1758
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:50,479
Speaker 3: which is not a particularly effective joke.

1759
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:51,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

1760
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:55,040
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, it's like, you know, you can say, well,

1761
01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 3: we hate those characters and this is just another reason

1762
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 3: to hate them, but it's like, well, we already hated them. Again.

1763
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:02,679
Speaker 3: It's like, if you want to go there, if that's

1764
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:05,800
Speaker 3: the route you want to go, don't only cast white

1765
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:09,120
Speaker 3: people because it's like it's the racism in the room

1766
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 3: with us kind of vibe.

1767
01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:11,519
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, not.

1768
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:14,639
Speaker 3: To say that. I mean, you know, I'm not accusing

1769
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:18,000
Speaker 3: the director of being racist. I'm just like, you need

1770
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:24,760
Speaker 3: representation of more than white people obviously, but also like

1771
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 3: those jokes aren't going to land in an all white cast,

1772
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 3: and it's like silly to expect them.

1773
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:33,840
Speaker 2: To, right to the point where you're not even sure

1774
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:37,320
Speaker 2: what the intent was with those jokes. It's like, is

1775
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:39,839
Speaker 2: it to call out the white people for being racist?

1776
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,280
Speaker 2: Or are we supposed to be laughing along with the joke?

1777
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,160
Speaker 2: Because the movie doesn't make that super super clear.

1778
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:49,320
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety four, I don't know what the answer is.

1779
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:53,840
Speaker 3: Anyone's guessed, right, So yeah, no, I totally agree with you,

1780
01:46:53,920 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 3: And it's that's unfortunate because I think that, like by

1781
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:04,120
Speaker 3: writing Rhonda's Care so thoughtfully, that this movie is able

1782
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 3: to push back on a lot of ablest tropes, So

1783
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:11,160
Speaker 3: it's unfortunate that it sort of just plays into lazier

1784
01:47:11,200 --> 01:47:13,160
Speaker 3: tropes around racism.

1785
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:19,719
Speaker 2: Also wanted to talk about the body shaming and fat

1786
01:47:19,760 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 2: shaming that particularly Muriel's character is subjected to different family

1787
01:47:28,320 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 2: members and friends of hers or former friends fat shame her.

1788
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 2: But then you also learn that Tony collect gained weight

1789
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:41,360
Speaker 2: for the role, and not that I don't want Tony

1790
01:47:41,600 --> 01:47:45,599
Speaker 2: Collette to get roles, especially starmaking roles like this, but

1791
01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 2: productions throughout history have had a bad habit of not

1792
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 2: casting fat actors or just actors of varying body sizes.

1793
01:47:57,240 --> 01:48:03,200
Speaker 2: And instead either casting an actor and then requiring that

1794
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:06,320
Speaker 2: they gain weight or putting them in a fat suit.

1795
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:11,080
Speaker 3: Which also feels I mean what I mean, We unfortunately

1796
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 3: don't need to go back very far in movie history

1797
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 3: because this still very much happens. It was a lot

1798
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 3: of the discourse surrounding the Whale, which one Brendan Fraser

1799
01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 3: a fucking oscar. It's I don't know, I mean, like

1800
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:26,439
Speaker 3: we've had this conversation on the show before, but I

1801
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 3: was disappointed to learn that. Not shocked given the nineteen

1802
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:35,719
Speaker 3: ninety four of it, all right, but certainly disappointed because

1803
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 3: it's just like Tony Klette is tremendously talented, so are

1804
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 3: actors that aren't rail Thinn. You know, like, if this

1805
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:50,960
Speaker 3: is canon to this character who we love, cast accordingly,

1806
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:52,360
Speaker 3: you know, it's.

1807
01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:58,000
Speaker 2: Right, there are available actors of all sizes, and if

1808
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:02,559
Speaker 2: the role requires an actor to be a certain size,

1809
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:07,400
Speaker 2: there's already an actor who's that exact size that could

1810
01:49:07,400 --> 01:49:10,919
Speaker 2: have been cast without requiring that they make any changes

1811
01:49:11,479 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 2: to their body.

1812
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:17,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's it's so wild because it's just like,

1813
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:20,840
Speaker 3: but although I guess you couldn't make a movie in

1814
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four in Australia without this guy Bill, so

1815
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:28,720
Speaker 3: Bill to be there's only like sometimes when you see

1816
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:31,640
Speaker 3: Australian movies, I'm like, are there ten working actors in

1817
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:34,680
Speaker 3: this country? Like what is going on? Bill is in

1818
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:37,400
Speaker 3: all of them? That's so wild?

1819
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah it's it's I mean, and good good.

1820
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:44,479
Speaker 3: For him, but yeah no. But I'm glad that you

1821
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 3: pointed that out because I was also like, I need

1822
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:49,720
Speaker 3: to do more research, and then the research made me

1823
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 3: sad many such cases. Let me see. That's like, I

1824
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:00,479
Speaker 3: think most.

1825
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:01,880
Speaker 2: Of what I had I didn't have much else. We

1826
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 2: covered a lot of stuff during the recap. I think

1827
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:06,320
Speaker 2: the last thing that I wanted to just include was

1828
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:11,320
Speaker 2: a quote from a piece from The Guardian by an

1829
01:50:11,360 --> 01:50:17,479
Speaker 2: Australian writer named Karen Pickering, who wrote kind of like

1830
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:22,439
Speaker 2: a retrospective review in twenty seventeen about this movie entitled

1831
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:27,519
Speaker 2: Mauriel's Wedding is a feminist masterpiece and more relevant than ever.

1832
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 2: She doesn't go quite as like intersectional as our discussion

1833
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 2: has been, but she does point out a lot of

1834
01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:38,040
Speaker 2: the positives which I tended to agree with. So I'll

1835
01:50:38,080 --> 01:50:43,240
Speaker 2: just share a few quick paragraphs from this quote. Lots

1836
01:50:43,240 --> 01:50:46,040
Speaker 2: of little moments resonate with me as a feminist observer.

1837
01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:51,080
Speaker 2: Rhnda is totally and unapologetically sex positive, and when her

1838
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:54,320
Speaker 2: casual sex partners think a guy is taking advantage of Maryel,

1839
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 2: they intervene on her. Behalf. Bryce is an example of gentle, respectful,

1840
01:50:59,479 --> 01:51:03,840
Speaker 2: and war masculinity, which you could maybe because of how

1841
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 2: strong he comes on you could maybe disagree with that,

1842
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 2: but anyway, Yeah, well, David is positively influenced in this

1843
01:51:09,960 --> 01:51:15,200
Speaker 2: direction by Mauriel. Also maybe up for debate. Undoubtedly, patriarchy

1844
01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:19,720
Speaker 2: is the decisive factor in creating Muriel's reprehensible dad, in

1845
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:23,400
Speaker 2: the behavior of her hapless siblings, in the power differential

1846
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 2: between her mother and father, and even in the despicable

1847
01:51:26,520 --> 01:51:30,799
Speaker 2: deirdrech Chambers just a sad woman in a bad man's world.

1848
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:33,040
Speaker 3: I guess that we didn't really talk about Deirdre, but

1849
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:35,840
Speaker 3: I don't have that much to say other than it

1850
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:39,639
Speaker 3: seems like she is coded as like, here's a woman

1851
01:51:39,680 --> 01:51:45,679
Speaker 3: who will step on anyone to achieve some notoriety or comfort,

1852
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:50,920
Speaker 3: such as you know, participating in MLMs. And I mean also,

1853
01:51:51,160 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 3: oh oh, I wanted to bring this up in the

1854
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:58,080
Speaker 3: conversation about Muriel's mother about Betty what Deirdre says about

1855
01:51:58,120 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 3: her towards the end of the movie where you know,

1856
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:05,799
Speaker 3: Deirdre says again, just because Betty, even from beyond the grave,

1857
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:08,719
Speaker 3: is being punished by her piece of shit ex husband

1858
01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:13,880
Speaker 3: says like, oh, you know, this is gonna make Bill

1859
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:16,519
Speaker 3: look a lot more sympathetic in the press, so at

1860
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:18,760
Speaker 3: least her life had a purpose. And I was like,

1861
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:25,400
Speaker 3: you fucking it, Like I just oh, I like my

1862
01:52:25,720 --> 01:52:29,679
Speaker 3: blood was. I don't know how someone said that about

1863
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 3: my mom and our relationships up and down, but like

1864
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 3: I would hit somewhat. That's like, oh my god, how

1865
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 3: did Deirdre not take one to the fucking nose on that?

1866
01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:43,599
Speaker 2: That was like, uh, I don't but.

1867
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:47,680
Speaker 3: I respect what the what the writer's saying, and it's

1868
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:49,920
Speaker 3: true and it is I'm sure it's like canonically true,

1869
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,080
Speaker 3: but I'm like, I know, I hate that bitch. I

1870
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:52,960
Speaker 3: hate that bitch.

1871
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, she's awful. Just to finish out this quote,

1872
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:59,400
Speaker 2: the writer goes on to say Bill has exemplifies a

1873
01:52:59,600 --> 01:53:05,360
Speaker 2: particularly Australian strain of toxic masculinity. He's matro corrupt, racist,

1874
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,879
Speaker 2: cruel to his children, and wholly abusive to his poor wife.

1875
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 2: The most likable he ever gets is when he's grudgingly

1876
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:17,839
Speaker 2: impressed by Muriel giving him the what for before she leaves.

1877
01:53:18,120 --> 01:53:20,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's an Australian expression, but I

1878
01:53:20,040 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 2: don't know what the what for?

1879
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:24,240
Speaker 3: The what for? I think it's just like standing up

1880
01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:24,920
Speaker 3: to him kind of.

1881
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:30,120
Speaker 2: That makes sense finally, And how can we understand her beautiful,

1882
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:34,080
Speaker 2: tragic mom without factoring in the misogyny and sexism that's

1883
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:36,840
Speaker 2: kept her in this home full of people who treat

1884
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:40,000
Speaker 2: her so badly. Yeah, but in Mariel's case, it's also

1885
01:53:40,200 --> 01:53:44,280
Speaker 2: a patriarchal fantasy that keeps her alive, the dream that

1886
01:53:44,360 --> 01:53:47,599
Speaker 2: one day she'll be a success because someone will want

1887
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 2: to marry her unquote. And yeah, I think that's the

1888
01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:53,160
Speaker 2: last thing I wanted to just touch a little bit

1889
01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:58,800
Speaker 2: more on as far as this idea of And Mauriel's

1890
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:02,280
Speaker 2: not alone in this. I've met people throughout my life

1891
01:54:02,680 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 2: were who cared more about getting married than who they married,

1892
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:14,080
Speaker 2: or like everything was focused on the wedding. The wedding's

1893
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:16,479
Speaker 2: the happiest day of your life, and it's like, will

1894
01:54:16,600 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 2: what about the relationship after that?

1895
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 3: Or like, but what I really appreciate about this movie

1896
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:26,760
Speaker 3: is that I think that a lot of even like

1897
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:31,160
Speaker 3: movies that are ostensibly feminist, and not to say that

1898
01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 3: this doesn't happen, because sure it does. Some people are

1899
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:40,440
Speaker 3: simply vapid, right, Like it happens across the gender spectrum.

1900
01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 3: But I think that sometimes when particularly a woman is

1901
01:54:46,440 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 3: perceiving marriage this way, movies that sort of taut themselves

1902
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 3: and pat themselves on the back for their own feminism

1903
01:54:52,720 --> 01:54:56,360
Speaker 3: are like, look at this fucking loser who's not like

1904
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:00,640
Speaker 3: cool and feminist, like the main character who has never

1905
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:04,800
Speaker 3: made a mistake in response to patriarchy. Like it's like,

1906
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 3: what makes me really appreciate Muriel even more is that,

1907
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:12,880
Speaker 3: like she's drank the kool aid, and a lot of

1908
01:55:12,920 --> 01:55:15,600
Speaker 3: people drink the kool aid, and some people even get

1909
01:55:15,800 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 3: drink the kool aid and get married and then realize fuck.

1910
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:23,560
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's really hard to you know, against

1911
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:29,200
Speaker 3: a culture that is still this adamant about merit for sure,

1912
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 3: and then also I mean whatever, there's We've talked about

1913
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:34,600
Speaker 3: marriage plenty on the show. But I just really appreciated

1914
01:55:34,640 --> 01:55:37,720
Speaker 3: and it felt rare that, you know, I think when

1915
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:42,320
Speaker 3: we see movies that surround women and weddings. Very often

1916
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:44,240
Speaker 3: it's just like she's getting married. It's like done with

1917
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:46,160
Speaker 3: the assumption. That's like, and of course we know this

1918
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 3: is the most important day of her life, and blah blah,

1919
01:55:48,160 --> 01:55:50,600
Speaker 3: blah blah. It's just like assuming that you have drank

1920
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:53,680
Speaker 3: the kool aid. And then there's movies that I think

1921
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:58,200
Speaker 3: are like corny bad twenty tens feminism, that are like

1922
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:02,080
Speaker 3: any woman who wants to get married is an agent

1923
01:56:02,160 --> 01:56:05,960
Speaker 3: of the patriarchy, where it's like the truth is always

1924
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:07,960
Speaker 3: going to be somewhere in the middle there. And with Muriel,

1925
01:56:08,040 --> 01:56:13,200
Speaker 3: it's like she's being disabused of this really patriarchal structure

1926
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:16,080
Speaker 3: that is all she knows. And it's not until she

1927
01:56:16,760 --> 01:56:21,240
Speaker 3: escapes and lives a little bit and connects with someone

1928
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:25,640
Speaker 3: on a deeper level through Ronda, that she's able to realize,

1929
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:28,480
Speaker 3: like and you know, until she literally gets what she wants.

1930
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 3: And it's horrible that she's like, well, I'm gonna get

1931
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:35,520
Speaker 3: out while i can, and you know, and maybe she

1932
01:56:35,600 --> 01:56:38,640
Speaker 3: will find love down the line, we'll get married, maybe

1933
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:40,840
Speaker 3: she won't. But it's just like it's cool to see

1934
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:43,720
Speaker 3: someone be disabused of that and still have the movie

1935
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 3: be like wholy on their side, because it's a journey

1936
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:48,280
Speaker 3: a lot of people have.

1937
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:50,400
Speaker 2: To go on, definitely, And yeah, I don't I don't

1938
01:56:50,440 --> 01:56:57,960
Speaker 2: blame people for having been conditioned to like disproportionately value

1939
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:02,080
Speaker 2: getting married or just like the idea of getting married

1940
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:06,240
Speaker 2: or the idea of having a wedding, because there's an entire,

1941
01:57:06,680 --> 01:57:10,960
Speaker 2: you know, bazillion dollar industry built around that, there's and

1942
01:57:11,000 --> 01:57:14,680
Speaker 2: not for nothing, we love going to weddings and as

1943
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 2: to your wedding, but yeah, I mean so much of

1944
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:24,200
Speaker 2: patriarchy does condition people, and especially women to strongly value

1945
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:30,200
Speaker 2: the idea of getting married and not even like not

1946
01:57:30,400 --> 01:57:33,839
Speaker 2: like having a marriage and having a meaningful relationship with

1947
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:38,760
Speaker 2: with a companion. It's just like you gotta get married.

1948
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:43,280
Speaker 2: The subtext, according to the patriarchy is like become.

1949
01:57:42,960 --> 01:57:47,240
Speaker 3: A man's property, right, But it's like and then and

1950
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:52,120
Speaker 3: then the whole you know lie the eresults in these

1951
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:56,440
Speaker 3: like compet structure is that as a woman, you will

1952
01:57:57,000 --> 01:58:00,879
Speaker 3: become a more the most complete version of yourself exactly

1953
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:03,240
Speaker 3: when you get married to a man. And so I

1954
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:09,440
Speaker 3: think with every with every feminist movement, that the conception

1955
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:13,839
Speaker 3: of marriage has been sort of adjusted or like altered

1956
01:58:13,880 --> 01:58:18,240
Speaker 3: by the right to make this very conservative notion Syne.

1957
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:21,400
Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm fucking getting married next year, Like

1958
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:23,840
Speaker 3: you have a fiance. I have a fiance, but it's

1959
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:27,480
Speaker 3: because I simply really want to marry, like I'm excited

1960
01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:31,400
Speaker 3: about it, which is like, then do it. But yeah,

1961
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:35,600
Speaker 3: I feel like people the way that people sell, particularly

1962
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:38,720
Speaker 3: young women on marriage by praying on their self esteem

1963
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:43,320
Speaker 3: is and during like second wave feminism of like, no,

1964
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:47,520
Speaker 3: actually being married is a way to be self actualized.

1965
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 3: You're like, shut the fuck up, dude, Like there, you know,

1966
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:55,800
Speaker 3: it's just interesting watching the news scams that people come

1967
01:58:55,880 --> 01:58:59,680
Speaker 3: up with. But you know, Muriel sees through the matrix

1968
01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:02,880
Speaker 3: at the end of the movie and realizes that friendship

1969
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,240
Speaker 3: is the true wedding or something.

1970
01:59:07,560 --> 01:59:11,280
Speaker 2: No, if that's exactly it, And that's why I really

1971
01:59:11,360 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 2: appreciate this movie again, Like, yes, she she has more

1972
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:21,040
Speaker 2: maturing to do. She you know, needs to learn how

1973
01:59:21,040 --> 01:59:27,120
Speaker 2: to be a more honest person. But it's this caring,

1974
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:31,920
Speaker 2: supportive friendship with her friend Rhonda. I keep wanting to

1975
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:34,560
Speaker 2: call her Rodna. I don't even think that's a name.

1976
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 2: That's a cool name, Rodna, It's Ronda I'm just having

1977
01:59:40,560 --> 01:59:47,920
Speaker 2: a bit of a brain thing today. But Ronda is, Yeah,

1978
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:52,360
Speaker 2: the thing that she that Muriel needed to see the light.

1979
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:53,640
Speaker 2: I love it.

1980
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just seeing especially with I guess the last

1981
01:59:57,560 --> 02:00:02,640
Speaker 3: thing I'll say about Rhonda and Uriel is that, you know, Ronda,

1982
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:05,320
Speaker 3: part of what draws them to each other is they

1983
02:00:05,360 --> 02:00:09,360
Speaker 3: really admire each other and you know, and that even

1984
02:00:09,480 --> 02:00:14,320
Speaker 3: after Muriel kind of exposes herself as like I've been

1985
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,520
Speaker 3: lying to you, Ronda's upset about it, she's hurt, but

1986
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:24,320
Speaker 3: it doesn't make her think Muriel isn't awesome. Yeah, and

1987
02:00:24,360 --> 02:00:27,240
Speaker 3: that is like a true friend of like you know,

1988
02:00:27,680 --> 02:00:30,160
Speaker 3: and and not everyone would would do that, and maybe

1989
02:00:30,160 --> 02:00:32,760
Speaker 3: they would be right to write like that's a pretty

1990
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:36,280
Speaker 3: big lie. But she's like, okay, fine, so Tim Sims

1991
02:00:36,320 --> 02:00:38,400
Speaker 3: wasn't real, You're still cool, like.

1992
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:43,760
Speaker 2: Because in that moment, Maryel explains why she made Tim

1993
02:00:43,760 --> 02:00:47,040
Speaker 2: Simms up. She's like, exactly, I hate myself and if

1994
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:50,120
Speaker 2: I was marrying someone, I could be a different person

1995
02:00:50,360 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 2: and I would love a different person, which like might

1996
02:00:53,120 --> 02:00:54,560
Speaker 2: and probably wouldn't even be true.

1997
02:00:54,680 --> 02:00:56,960
Speaker 3: Like no, I mean, well we learned that's not true

1998
02:00:57,360 --> 02:00:59,919
Speaker 3: because she marries some guy and this miserable.

1999
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:05,560
Speaker 2: Right, so the way that she actually will love herself

2000
02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:08,280
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with marriage or being with a

2001
02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:10,880
Speaker 2: man or anything like that. She lays all this out

2002
02:01:11,320 --> 02:01:16,080
Speaker 2: and Ronda she hears that. She sees that, and she's like,

2003
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:18,560
Speaker 2: this is still a person worthy of my friendship and

2004
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:23,840
Speaker 2: like probably needs my help. They need each other, They

2005
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 2: need each other for sure.

2006
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:29,520
Speaker 3: I love them. I love them. This movie passes the

2007
02:01:29,560 --> 02:01:31,520
Speaker 3: Bechdel test obviously a lot.

2008
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:34,960
Speaker 2: Yes, lots of different combinations of characters talking about all

2009
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:37,800
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. There are discussions about men. Some of

2010
02:01:37,800 --> 02:01:40,280
Speaker 2: them are made up. Oh does it pass the test

2011
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:43,240
Speaker 2: if you're talking about Tim Simms, who's not a real.

2012
02:01:43,120 --> 02:01:48,240
Speaker 3: Person feminist icon timsons. We don't know how Tim Simms identifies.

2013
02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:51,440
Speaker 3: We don't because Tim Sims is made up.

2014
02:01:51,800 --> 02:01:54,120
Speaker 2: Well, Tim Sims is a cop, so he's.

2015
02:01:54,080 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 3: See him, Tim Simms. I hate to hear it anyways, Okay, Yeah,

2016
02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:06,760
Speaker 3: it passes a lot, And honestly, most of the interactions

2017
02:02:06,760 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 3: about men are pretty anti men. It's yeah, I don't

2018
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 3: think this movie has a very high opinion of men.

2019
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 3: And that's why I and that's why I trust it.

2020
02:02:17,720 --> 02:02:19,440
Speaker 2: Wow, Titanic, I don't.

2021
02:02:19,320 --> 02:02:21,720
Speaker 3: Think if we've ever thrown that line in before, so

2022
02:02:22,200 --> 02:02:25,040
Speaker 3: for your consideration, it doesn't make any sense. That's why

2023
02:02:25,040 --> 02:02:25,600
Speaker 3: I trusted.

2024
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:29,360
Speaker 2: Did you catch my Summer Heights High reference from like

2025
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:30,400
Speaker 2: two hours ago?

2026
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:33,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, the.

2027
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:38,440
Speaker 2: Curly haired beach yeah, may yeah, oh yeah, that's probably No,

2028
02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:40,760
Speaker 2: that's a jama and that's not Summer High High briber raids.

2029
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:45,000
Speaker 3: I mix it up. Yeah, Jame meant a lot to me.

2030
02:02:45,960 --> 02:02:50,000
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, same spelling, different pronunciation.

2031
02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:52,600
Speaker 3: I think, so, just like there's an accent mark, I think.

2032
02:02:54,280 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, so it passes the vectels test handily. Yeah,

2033
02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:02,600
Speaker 3: so but what about the one perfect metric, the nipple scale?

2034
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:05,960
Speaker 2: Oh, you mean our scale where we rate the movie

2035
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:09,400
Speaker 2: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on

2036
02:03:10,640 --> 02:03:14,120
Speaker 2: looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.

2037
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:14,960
Speaker 3: Why, yes, I do.

2038
02:03:15,400 --> 02:03:22,360
Speaker 2: Well in that case, I'll give this. I'm like between

2039
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 2: I want to see like a three and a half,

2040
02:03:25,760 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 2: maybe edging toward a four. There's a lot that I

2041
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:34,640
Speaker 2: think this movie handles well. There's a few things that

2042
02:03:34,680 --> 02:03:39,840
Speaker 2: I'm a little dicey on that I think are very

2043
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:44,080
Speaker 2: you know, criticism about how the movie handles like the

2044
02:03:44,160 --> 02:03:50,000
Speaker 2: racist microaggressions that different characters hurl head people, and the

2045
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:56,480
Speaker 2: discussion around ableism and the discussion around body and body size,

2046
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:02,040
Speaker 2: those are a little iffier. But because this movie at

2047
02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 2: its core is about two women forming a friendship that

2048
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:11,840
Speaker 2: is just like sweet, and it's not the healthiest friendship

2049
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:15,160
Speaker 2: on account of Maurial lying a lot, but she learns

2050
02:04:15,200 --> 02:04:18,360
Speaker 2: not to do that, but she's working on and that's

2051
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:21,040
Speaker 2: the thing too, Like there's so few movies about a

2052
02:04:21,080 --> 02:04:24,640
Speaker 2: messy woman who's messy in a way that actually feels

2053
02:04:24,680 --> 02:04:30,880
Speaker 2: like real life and that needs to learn and not

2054
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:34,440
Speaker 2: be dishonest, not be lying to people, et cetera, because

2055
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:40,919
Speaker 2: movies and society ever heard of it, well, except expect

2056
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:43,320
Speaker 2: women to be these perfect little angels who are not

2057
02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:46,920
Speaker 2: allowed to misbehave in any way and who have to

2058
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:50,080
Speaker 2: just be born perfect. And we have very little tolerance

2059
02:04:50,600 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 2: for messy women. And I love to see a movie

2060
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,920
Speaker 2: about a messy woman, But I also love to see

2061
02:04:56,920 --> 02:04:59,880
Speaker 2: a movie about a messy woman growing, because messy people should,

2062
02:05:00,440 --> 02:05:03,440
Speaker 2: you know, grow and learn, right, And that's what this

2063
02:05:03,480 --> 02:05:05,840
Speaker 2: movie is all about. So I really appreciate it. And

2064
02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 2: I'll land on like three point seventy five nipples and

2065
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:16,480
Speaker 2: I'll distribute them between Tony Collette, the actor who plays Ronda,

2066
02:05:16,880 --> 02:05:25,960
Speaker 2: Rachel Griffiths, and Tim Sims imaginary imaginary King.

2067
02:05:26,760 --> 02:05:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna go three point seven five as well.

2068
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:34,280
Speaker 3: I agree, particularly with regards to the racism and asking

2069
02:05:34,320 --> 02:05:36,640
Speaker 3: a I mean not Tony Kollett was not famous at

2070
02:05:36,680 --> 02:05:39,520
Speaker 3: this time, but having an actor gain weight instead of simply.

2071
02:05:39,240 --> 02:05:42,000
Speaker 2: Just casting an actor who's already the size of the character.

2072
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:45,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically everything else about this movie I was really

2073
02:05:46,560 --> 02:05:49,480
Speaker 3: pleasantly surprised by. Like I was really blown away. It's like,

2074
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:54,880
Speaker 3: it's a really funny, memorable movie about the cycle of

2075
02:05:55,960 --> 02:06:00,880
Speaker 3: trauma in families. And I still laughed so much and

2076
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:03,960
Speaker 3: you could never predict what's going to happen next in

2077
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:08,440
Speaker 3: this movie. I love Love Love just a story about yeah,

2078
02:06:08,480 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 3: like being liberated through friendship but still being a messy

2079
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:15,600
Speaker 3: twenty one, twenty two year old, Like it just yeah,

2080
02:06:15,640 --> 02:06:21,280
Speaker 3: she feels so real and the performances are amazing, and

2081
02:06:21,320 --> 02:06:24,240
Speaker 3: I just feel like it's like this weird, awesome commentary

2082
02:06:24,240 --> 02:06:27,240
Speaker 3: on it's the exact opposite of what the poster leads

2083
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 3: you to believe, right, it's going to be And I

2084
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:34,840
Speaker 3: really love that I got gotten big time. This movie

2085
02:06:34,920 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 3: got our asses because even the like, I mean, I'm

2086
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:41,080
Speaker 3: sort of wondering if they were trying to market it

2087
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:43,680
Speaker 3: as like, because this is kind of a hard sell

2088
02:06:44,040 --> 02:06:46,200
Speaker 3: to your average rom com goer, to be like, it's

2089
02:06:46,360 --> 02:06:49,600
Speaker 3: the most depressing thing you'll ever see. Prepare to not

2090
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:54,320
Speaker 3: feel escape from reality at all, because the poster says,

2091
02:06:54,600 --> 02:06:57,040
Speaker 3: a comedy about a small town girl who didn't fit in,

2092
02:06:57,320 --> 02:07:00,840
Speaker 3: but it's about to learn how to stand out. Uriel's wedding,

2093
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:04,320
Speaker 3: she's not just getting married, she's getting even I'm like,

2094
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 3: that doesn't feel like the movie. I feel like they

2095
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:09,000
Speaker 3: were just trying to be like, it's a movie about

2096
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:12,400
Speaker 3: a wedding, go see it, just trick people into going

2097
02:07:12,560 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 3: because it is a tricky sell. But I think it's awesome. Yes,

2098
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:17,960
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do three point seventy five nipples. I'm gonna

2099
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:21,080
Speaker 3: give them to Toni Collette. I'm gonna give one to

2100
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:24,760
Speaker 3: Jocelyn Moore and Linda House, who were Yeah, the two

2101
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:26,760
Speaker 3: producers of this movie were women. I'm gonna give one

2102
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:32,680
Speaker 3: to editor Jill Billcock, who also who's just an Australian legend,

2103
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:36,840
Speaker 3: also edited Strictly Ballroom Romeo Plus Juliet and Mulin Rouge

2104
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:41,320
Speaker 3: and Oh my God, Kate Blanchette, another Australian legend. She

2105
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:47,680
Speaker 3: also edited the Cate Blanchette Queen Elizabeth's movie Oh from

2106
02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:49,880
Speaker 3: the nineties. So I'll give one to her and then

2107
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:52,760
Speaker 3: i'll give by last point five. Yeah, you know what,

2108
02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it to Tim Simms as well, because

2109
02:07:55,680 --> 02:07:57,760
Speaker 3: he had me in the first act. Then it turns

2110
02:07:57,760 --> 02:07:59,120
Speaker 3: out he was a vengeful cop.

2111
02:07:59,720 --> 02:08:02,880
Speaker 2: Oh okay, wait, I take back my Tim Sims nipple

2112
02:08:03,240 --> 02:08:06,560
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna yeah, sorry, I forgot that he's a cop.

2113
02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:08,400
Speaker 3: Well I won't.

2114
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give he's not real.

2115
02:08:11,960 --> 02:08:13,520
Speaker 3: But I do, like, I don't want Tim Sims to

2116
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:14,640
Speaker 3: get any bright ideas.

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02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:18,520
Speaker 2: I do want to distribute some of my nipples to

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02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:22,000
Speaker 2: Muriel's mom and her sister Jonie.

2119
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:27,600
Speaker 3: I yes, Betty and Jonie, I really And meanwhile, I'm

2120
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:30,760
Speaker 3: the person that just screamed they're not real. I am

2121
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:35,160
Speaker 3: so like. I just hope that Muriel calls Joni regularly.

2122
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:37,080
Speaker 3: I was worried for Joanie at the end. I don't

2123
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:39,600
Speaker 3: want Joni to get stuck in that pattern of abuse

2124
02:08:40,160 --> 02:08:42,800
Speaker 3: with her dad because it's not like he's going to

2125
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:47,760
Speaker 3: ever improve. I'm like, Jony, I'm assuming you're an adult. Like,

2126
02:08:49,200 --> 02:08:51,440
Speaker 3: it's hard to tell how old people were in the

2127
02:08:51,520 --> 02:08:55,960
Speaker 3: nineties because they weren't using SPS sunblock and they were

2128
02:08:56,040 --> 02:08:59,880
Speaker 3: ripping STIGs. But like, my heart really went out to Joni.

2129
02:09:00,160 --> 02:09:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope she moves on.

2130
02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:04,560
Speaker 3: I'm still keeping my nipples with timsim. That is fine.

2131
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:05,520
Speaker 3: I allow it.

2132
02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:10,960
Speaker 2: And with that, listeners, thank you so much for those

2133
02:09:10,960 --> 02:09:14,120
Speaker 2: of you who have been frothing at the mouth for

2134
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:17,280
Speaker 2: this Mariel's wedding episode. I know it's it's some of

2135
02:09:17,320 --> 02:09:19,960
Speaker 2: you at least. I hope you enjoyed it.

2136
02:09:20,400 --> 02:09:22,520
Speaker 3: We really enjoyed putting it together. Yeah, we hope it

2137
02:09:22,560 --> 02:09:25,040
Speaker 3: was worth the way because this was a blast.

2138
02:09:25,360 --> 02:09:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a prospect on our wedding Webuary month

2139
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:34,160
Speaker 2: last year. Yup, and it didn't quite make the cut.

2140
02:09:34,200 --> 02:09:36,960
Speaker 2: But here it is on the main feed, So yeah,

2141
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:37,600
Speaker 2: what now?

2142
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 3: What now?

2143
02:09:38,720 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 2: But speaking of the main feed versus our Matreon, it's

2144
02:09:44,280 --> 02:09:46,879
Speaker 2: something you should subscribe to. You can go to patreon

2145
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:49,800
Speaker 2: dot com slash spectal Cast. It's five dollars a month.

2146
02:09:50,160 --> 02:09:54,320
Speaker 2: You get two bonus episodes on amazing themes such as

2147
02:09:54,520 --> 02:10:00,680
Speaker 2: wedding Webruary. What a bargain and plus you get access

2148
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:04,640
Speaker 2: to the entire back catalog. So check that out. Check

2149
02:10:04,640 --> 02:10:07,880
Speaker 2: out our link tree, our letterbox. You know, give us

2150
02:10:08,280 --> 02:10:13,560
Speaker 2: five nipples on your listening platform, all that good stuff, follow.

2151
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:17,040
Speaker 3: Us on Instagram, and most of all, follow your heart.

2152
02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:22,600
Speaker 3: And with that, listeners, let's get in the car and always.

2153
02:10:22,280 --> 02:10:26,960
Speaker 2: Say it we Bye bye Street, Bye shopping Mall, I Cry,

2154
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:34,960
Speaker 2: Bye surfer Boys, Bye Los Angeles, Goodbye Porpoise Spit. What

2155
02:10:35,120 --> 02:10:40,960
Speaker 2: a just I'd live there, No, I wouldn't, No horrible play.

2156
02:10:41,040 --> 02:10:47,680
Speaker 2: Goodbye Porpoise Spit, Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

2157
02:10:47,680 --> 02:10:51,840
Speaker 2: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus,

2158
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:55,760
Speaker 2: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme

2159
02:10:55,800 --> 02:10:59,920
Speaker 2: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski.

2160
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:03,840
Speaker 2: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and

2161
02:11:03,920 --> 02:11:07,760
Speaker 2: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about

2162
02:11:07,800 --> 02:11:10,800
Speaker 2: the podcast, please visit linktree, slash Bechdelcast