1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld, I'm joined by my good friend, 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: former congressman and psychologist, doctor Tim Murphy, and he's here 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: to discuss his new book, The Christ Cure, tend Biblical 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: ways to heal from trauma, tragedy, and PTSD. As a 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist specializing in resilience and recovery from psychological trauma, 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: he consults on mental health and public policy with national 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: organizations and speaks extensively throughout the United States. His new book, 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: The Christ Cure is a valuable guide for anyone dealing 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: with PTSD, trauma and tragedy, the family members of trauma victims, 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: clergy who seek a better understanding of psychology, and for 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: counselors who seek a better understanding of the role of 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: faith in healing from trauma. Inspired by the life and 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: works of the Apostle Paul, himself a survivor of multiple 14 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: traumas modern day mentors by his own humbling personal experiences 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: and reinforced by solid scientific research, the Christ Cure provides 16 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: a handbook of healing for victims of trauma. So I'm 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome doctor Tim Murphy. Tim, welcome, and 18 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me on Newsworld. 19 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely great to be with you, mister speaker. It's hard 20 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: for me to not call you that so well. 21 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: New seems to work okay, though, but I appreciated certainly. 22 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Was a great honor to service speaker. How did you 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: decide to become a psychologist? What attracted you to that? 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 2: That decision made some decades ago, And I think much 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: of that related to I grew up in a family 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,559 Speaker 2: of eleven children, and so you find in a family 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: that you're oftentimes working to settle arguments and disagreements and 28 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: to be candid. An alcoholic father and sometimes a very 29 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,639 Speaker 2: unpleasant household experience sometimes got physical and sometimes got violent. 30 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: And it was a matter of when I went into college, 31 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: wanted to help others heal in the process to and 32 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 2: deal with stress and trauma. I had a great affinity 33 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: work with children, adolescents and young adults, and that's now 34 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: transperd over to working exclusive with adults. But it was 35 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: this drive to help other people understand and survive the 36 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: pains they've been through and to become better people. 37 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: And you did this from a background of having gotten 38 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: your BA from Willing Jesuit University and then going on 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: to Cleveland State for an MA and then getting a 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: PhD from the University of Pittsburgh. That's quite an experience. 41 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: What did you take from having gone to a Jesuit 42 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: university and also. 43 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: Went to Jesuit high school? Those two really teach lessons 44 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: of discernment, and that is you don't just take things 45 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: and memorize them. I remember having encounters with one of 46 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: the priests where he was commenting on a subject and 47 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: I was the young student raising my hand wanted to comment, 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: and father didn't take too kindly to that, as he 49 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: held his hand up and said, mister Murphy, sit down 50 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: or just bes up. But I raised it a couple 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 2: of times, and he finally, I think, somewhat aggravate it 52 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: says what do you want? And I said, I like 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 2: to comment on what you're saying, and he very clearly said, 54 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: you will have a comment. I expect you to have 55 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: an opinion, but you will not have any opinion until 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: you know the material. Otherwise I'll bring up to the 57 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: front of the class and you can start teaching. It 58 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: bit embarrassing, but that is the style that I learned, 59 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: that you had to really thoroughly look at things. So 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: that is continue to both be a hindrance and a help, 61 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: blessing and a curse as I've gone through, I remember 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: my years in Congress and as a state senator, pushing 63 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: people to always get me more information. I felt, if 64 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: you couldn't argue both sides of an issue, you didn't 65 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: know the issue. And so those were all invaluable to me. 66 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: And that's the way it continued to drive me to 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: learn more and more and more. Sometimes drive myself nuts 68 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 2: with that, but drive me to learn more well. 69 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: And in addition to your academic background, you spent eight 70 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: years as an officer in the Medical Service Corp of 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: the US Navy, getting to be a commander, and you 72 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: worked on the staff in the impatient Traumatic Brain Injury 73 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: PTSD unit at water Read. That has to have been 74 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: just an astonishing experience. 75 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: It was incredible. I'd actually joined the Navy while I 76 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: was in Congress because I felt very strongly, if I'm 77 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: voting to send these men and women to war, and 78 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: I have a skill set that is valuable, I'd like 79 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: to be able to use that. Really, it's all volunteer. 80 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: You cannot get paid while you're in political office and 81 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 2: also serving. It came from a dinner once I had 82 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: sitting next to the Chairman Joints of Staffs, I Adam 83 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: Mike Mullen, and we talked about how I tried to 84 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: join the Navy early in life but they didn't need psychologists, 85 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: and he said, well, we need him now. And nine 86 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 2: months later I'm standing on the hangar deck of the 87 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: USS Eisenhower in Norfolk taking the oath of office. Being 88 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: able to work at Walter Reid with real he rows 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: people who have suffered terrible injuries in war, and quite frankly, 90 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: some of them were accents that occurring in training or 91 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: on base. Sometimes men and women who could barely talk, 92 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 2: barely walk, But we're helping them to come back into 93 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: a rich life do the best they can. It was 94 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: a phenomenal experience, and quite frankly, sometimes when I would 95 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: go there and I'd be with someone who was struggling 96 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: even to take a step, or even to button a 97 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: button or sip some water, someone who had been in 98 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: horrific battles and lost friends in that too, and also 99 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: not only the brain injury they had, but the aspects 100 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: of the psychological trauma and trying to heal from that 101 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: and then to go back to the Capitol sometimes and 102 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: hear the noise of people all upset about things, and 103 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: I'd say, that's not a real problem. I just left 104 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: up the road in Bethesda. Men and women with real problems. 105 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 2: Can we get back to the planet and understand what matters? 106 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: And I'd say, in addition to that, in the Navy, 107 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: I had the honor of surry on a couple of 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: aircraft carriers and the Roosevelt, the Vincent, and also do 109 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: some maybe special warfare training too. It's just an amazing, 110 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: amazing people we have in the military, and what a 111 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: humbling honor it was to be allowed to be part 112 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: of that for a while. 113 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: Did that change your views of things? Did you find 114 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: that both experience that Walter read and the experience on 115 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: the carriers gave you a different perspective than you would 116 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 1: have had if you'd never done. 117 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: It, No question about it. I mean I remember times. Well, 118 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 2: let me back track a little bit. I was injured 119 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: in a rollover accident in Iraq, not as a member 120 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 2: of the military, but that was my first tour of 121 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 2: the medical system in Iraq. I call it the horizontal 122 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 2: tour because I was strapped to a litter in a 123 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: guurney and helicopter and then flown over to Germany. But 124 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do, and it let me be 125 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: mobile again, was to walk around and see some of 126 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 2: the patients. And therein at Walter Read to see people 127 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: with awful wounds and think, Wow, this person's done this 128 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 2: for us. They'd have a flag in the room where 129 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: they're clutching to the flag or something else there. Their 130 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: loved ones were around. And when you see these things visually, 131 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: it just not quite breaks your heart, but it inspires 132 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: your heart. To see what people are willing to do, 133 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: and quite frankly, those aspects and to see how faith 134 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: helped them in their healing process were just eye opening 135 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: and humbling. 136 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Even before you went to Congress, you were actively involved 137 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: and as I remember you, as a Pennsylvania State Senator, 138 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: chaired the Agent and Youth Committee and you ultimately authored 139 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: the Managed Care Reformact. 140 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. When I went into State Senate, I 141 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: was doing well. I had a private practice. I had 142 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: worked at some hospitals in Pittsburgh and factory the School 143 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: of Medicine, University of Pittsburgh. I knew that health insurance 144 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: and managed care was running into some problems that it 145 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: was not being operated by the doctor patient relationship. Instead, 146 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: what was happening is insurance companies were coming in and 147 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: basically setting up a mother may. I approached to go 148 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: to the emergency room, you had to get permission. You 149 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: could drive right by an emergency room, but you had 150 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: to go to another word and where they had a contract. 151 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: It became really a process of managed money. And my 152 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: bill was designed to help put patients and doctors back 153 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: in charge. Look, we need accountability, we need visibility, we 154 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: need all those things. But what was I saw hurting 155 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: people was the patient was out of the process, the 156 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: doctor was out of the process, and I wanted to 157 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: make sure that they were brought back in. It came 158 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: out of the State Senate by a unanimous vote, came 159 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: out strongly of the House too. It made some big 160 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: changes in Pennsylvania. But you know, when you battle for 161 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: a bill, it you get a lot of scars in 162 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: the process. 163 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: Did you find the state legislature sort of liked the 164 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: Congress or substantially different? 165 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: Substantially different, it was calmer. We had fifty people in 166 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: the State Senate, got to know them all, some of 167 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: them became great friends. You spend more time with each other, 168 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: a lot more deliberation on things. There's a calmness of 169 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: the approach, whereas in Congress you really are operating moment 170 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: to moment, not more people on larger constituency having to 171 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: be responsive right away, and of course being on a 172 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: four year cycle state Senate versus a two year cycle 173 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: in Congress. The State Senate, you could talk more, call 174 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: me work through things built on legislation over time in 175 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: the House, not only because it's so large, but really 176 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: the atmosphere of working so much with media on a 177 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: national and international basis, always watching hundreds of reporters looking 178 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: for stories, hundreds of members trying to have their interests 179 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: representative in their states, fascinating to learn about the nation 180 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: from everybody and from all corners of the nation is 181 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: incredible learning experience, but a different mood, a different process. 182 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: I noticed that very early you were committed to recognizing 183 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: that suicide has become a huge problem. It seems to 184 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: me that between drug overdoses and suicide, we're in a 185 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: real crisis for younger Americans. What's your sense of that. 186 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: Well, younger Americans, suicide and accidents are the number one 187 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: cause of death, and many of those accents are probably 188 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: suicidal or related to drug use. And drug use is 189 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: also some of the recklessness, the lack of awareness of 190 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: the world that many adolescents have. Also, depression and anxiety 191 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: rates have doubled, especially since COVID. They've always been a 192 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: struggle for young adults, but they've lost so much of 193 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: their mentors, so much of their structure. This has been 194 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: a problem. If you look at the suicide rates would 195 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: last a couple of decades. We've had more people lost 196 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: to suicides then we've had more people lost to suicides 197 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: and last a few decades. And we've had US soldiers 198 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: who have been killed in World War One, World War two, Vietnam, Iraq, 199 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: and Afghanistan. We've had more soldiers and veterans die after 200 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: Afghanistan and Iraq than died in the war. It is 201 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: sad that the state is what's happening is people who 202 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: reach that point of despair feel a sense of hopelessness, helplessness. 203 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: They feel alone, they feel that others can't understand. They 204 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 2: feel there's no one who loves them, nowhere to go. 205 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: It's a desperate situation for them. I know there is 206 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: hope for them, but helping them to realize and recognize 207 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: that is a growing problem in our country, especially among youth. 208 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: Why do you think it's become so much worse. 209 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: Well, I think that youth really benefited from structure. We 210 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: know that there's good reason why there are so many 211 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: laws that restrict things for youth. You can't get licensed 212 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: here sixteen, you can't drink till you're twenty one, you 213 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: can't vote to your eighteen, you can't even get a 214 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: tattoo till you're eighteen. There's so many other aspects, and 215 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: that's because we recognize that what happens with youth, they're 216 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: not mature and ready to do things. Their brain, which 217 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: is controlled mostly by what it's called the Olympic system, 218 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: the central part that deals with emotions, is far more 219 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: advanced during the adolescent years than their frontale as they 220 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: get to be adults twenty five. So we have more 221 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: control over the front part of our brain, which looks 222 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 2: at the future, which weighs consequences when thinks about things, 223 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: and so with some of the impulsiveness and other aspects 224 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: of the youth, the way they think as they respond 225 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: more strongly, more intensely, and more quickly to their emotions. 226 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: But what has also happened is they've lost a lot 227 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: of structure. There is a great benefit to have responsible 228 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 2: adults in the lives of youths to guide them, to 229 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 2: mentor them, and quite frankly, sometimes to say no. When 230 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: you look at those people, for example, who have been shooters, 231 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: mass shootings some schools and other places, what you can 232 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: find is when it's a young adult eighteen to twenty 233 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: four or so, is one of the characteristics they have 234 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 2: is they do not have a stable adult youth relationship 235 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: in their life. You can see that coming. Those are 236 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: things that have come out of the FBI studies and 237 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: Secret Service studies that that is a great factor to 238 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: help them buffer that. But when institutions are under attack, 239 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: schools are under attack, respect for teachers under attack, respect 240 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 2: for parents under attack, pushing youth to mature before they're ready, 241 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: having social media, which is not just a matter of 242 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: bullying them, but just the whims of the moment, having 243 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: to wear the right thing, do the right thing, shift 244 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 2: and pivot without having adults also to help encourage and 245 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: monitor and bounce ideas off of those have been part 246 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,119 Speaker 2: of the struggle that our youth have that have contributed 247 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: to more of the stress and anxiety that they feel 248 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: is overwhelming. 249 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: One of the reasons, the early one to have this 250 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: conversation with you that you go from what you normally 251 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: think of as a pretty secular profession and now here 252 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: you are writing a book called The christ Cure, which 253 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: I think is fascinating. How did you get to that? 254 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: What was it that led you to that line of thought? 255 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 2: Well, of course I was raised as a Christian, or 256 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: as some say, I'm still working at it. We're all 257 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: are still working at it, and there are certainly valuable 258 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: lessons from there. But when I left off as I 259 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: was depressed in a horrible ste I never was going 260 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: to hurt myself. But when you wake up the morning 261 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: cursing the sunrise and saying I don't want to live 262 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: anymore because life has been awful, much of my own doing, 263 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: I had to seek some ways to recover from that. 264 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: Now I know in my work as a psychologist helping 265 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: people with PTSD and trauma, we talk a lot about 266 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: the healing aspects of psychological and psychotherapy. Talk therapy can 267 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: be very helpful, but I also recall very distinctly that 268 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: in the holes of wal to read. Particularly in our 269 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: unit seventies, the PTSD TBI unit, when the priests came around, 270 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: when the clergy came around, when the friars came around, 271 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 2: the prayers they offered and discussing things was very valuable 272 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: to them. Doing research about healing from PTSD, we find that, 273 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 2: for example, through the VA a year out or so treatment, 274 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: two thirds of people who struggle with PTSD post traumatic 275 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: stress disorder still have clinical symptoms of the diagnosis in 276 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: a year out two years out distinction. However, for those 277 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: who have a strong faith, and what I started doing 278 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 2: is asking clients I'm back in practice now and really 279 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: asking myself too, are you member of a certain religion? 280 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: Are you a believer? Religion, spirituality? And can we talk 281 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: about those things In the process. What I also had 282 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: to do is study it more. So I began to 283 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: read a lot more of the Bible and looking to see, 284 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: here's this apostle, Paul, the traumas you've had are amazing, 285 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: just run through a few. So here he is a 286 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: guy who is a Pharisitic Jew who believes that Jesus 287 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: is not the Messiah, and that to identify him as 288 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: the Messiah. That's a threat to Judaism, and of course 289 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: they're very cognitive of that and saying, hey, every time 290 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: we turn away from our mission, we get sent out 291 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: here for seventy years, or here for sixty years, or 292 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: floods or famine or whatever it comes to us. So 293 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: we got to protect this. And he became one of 294 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: the big enforces. Here's the tough guy. He was the guy. 295 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: And he gets these papers to go off to Damascus, 296 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: where he's been in this business of even watching and 297 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: participating in stonings of what he calls the Nazarenes. But 298 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 2: people believe Jesus and Messiah, and he is this bright 299 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: light and this voice that says, why are you persecuting me? 300 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: In that moment, he switches from being a Jew to 301 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: be now a Jew who believes that there is a Messiah. 302 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: That's a big change. So the people who are on 303 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: his side before now saying, hey, wait a minute, you 304 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: turned on us. And the people he used to hunt 305 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: down and arrest and see them in prison and see 306 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: them killed, now he's turning towards them. So he's blinded. 307 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: He has to recover from that. Over the next few years, 308 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: he is lashed with the whip thirty nine lashes five times. 309 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: He's beaten with rods three times, he's stoned one time 310 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: to death. Left for dead, he crawls back in the syndagogue, 311 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: continues to preach. He has to run out of towns. 312 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: He's escaping attacks, he's robbed, he's beaten, he's hungry, he's tired. 313 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: He's even out at a ship at sea in the 314 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: Mediterranean for a couple of weeks. The ship is barely 315 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: sticking together in the storm. It finally collapses. He floats 316 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: around for a day and a half on a piece 317 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 2: of wood in the Mediterrane, and he gets bitten by 318 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: a snake. He sends to death. He spends time in 319 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: a Roman in prison. The list goes on and on, 320 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: And I'm reading this and thinking, Wow, he should have 321 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: had every symptom of PTSD. He should have had sleep problems, 322 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 2: anxiety attacks, intense depression, suicidal, alcoholic, you name it. He 323 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: should have had it. But he didn't. And so I 324 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: started looking for a book about this, and as it 325 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 2: turns out, nobody had written one that some people suggest 326 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 2: that you might have had PTSD, because he said in 327 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: one part, is I have a thorn in my side. 328 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 2: That keeps me humble. I'm thinking, but that's not the same. 329 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: So I did my research and looking at this, and 330 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: that began to merge into this book, The Christ Cure, 331 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: and using his writings and readings to look at what 332 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: I think are four important stages and how he really 333 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: dealt with trauma, to look that back in this point, 334 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 2: people who are dealing with PTSD, those who embrace and 335 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 2: are religious, not just believing God, but really a religious 336 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: of practice, have a much better prognosis. And now I 337 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: ask my clients is can we incorporate this in our discussions? 338 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: And even though they say, well, I'm agnostic, but okay, 339 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: we learn a lot is discussions of the stories in 340 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: the Bible, the lessons there, because the Bible is basically 341 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 2: a collection of people who have had terrible troubles in 342 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: their life but have been forgiven and been redeemed, those 343 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: who have asked for forgiveness, those who moved towards that. 344 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: So I think that's a valuable lesson And there's one 345 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: that really became the book. And I say, in the 346 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: process of this, I'm not a biblical scholar. So what 347 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: was happening is I would sit down to write and 348 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: these things would just come out. I'm not trying to 349 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: say I was somehow possessed by the Holy Spirit here, 350 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: but I am saying that I don't know where some 351 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 2: of this came from. It just began to flow in 352 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 2: this and the results of this book. 353 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: So do you find now that you've been through this 354 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: that you actually make the religious experience an integral part 355 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: of your practice. 356 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 2: I do to the sense I'm trying to convert anybody 357 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: or have them born again or baptized or anything, but 358 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 2: it starts off as stories and lessons, and so there's 359 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 2: various elements of that. The first stage we all need 360 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: is that of resilience. Before any problem happens to us, 361 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: we have to make sure that we're looking at things 362 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: like building our strength, getting a sense of self discipline, 363 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 2: a strong commitment to that, building our humility, having goals 364 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: and plans. Those are all part of the resilience. The 365 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: military has resilience whatever career we're working, and you have 366 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: to have resilience. If we don't have that, when trauma hits, 367 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 2: we're going to struggle a lot more. And so what 368 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 2: I'll do is, in the process of this, I'll use 369 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: biblical stories as well as ask the person about stories 370 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 2: in their own life to share and say, you know, 371 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: there's something that's been written about that. Now it's not 372 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 2: all the time. I'm not heavy handed with this, but 373 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 2: it's saying there's something else there. The other aspect that 374 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: is in resistance is the skill set you need in 375 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: the fight when trauma hits you. And trauma hits on 376 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 2: three different levels, but when trauma hits you, you've got 377 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 2: to have a way of fighting back, and this is 378 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: where Paul was great at this. He talked about endurance, 379 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 2: he talked about persistence, he talked about courage. You have 380 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: to have a sense of community, and you have to 381 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: be vigilant over our vulnerabilities, and those were things he 382 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: brought into situations which helped him immensely, and of course 383 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: always his faith and turning towards it even in the 384 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 2: midst of suffering when he was recovering or dealing with suffering. 385 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: A big difference between people who have religion and spirituality 386 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: and faith and those who do not is you have hope. 387 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 2: When I'm talking with someone who says I'm an atheist 388 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 2: or I don't believe, the question I ask of them 389 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: is then where do you go for hope? Where do 390 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 2: you go? And I don't know. I just kind of 391 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: look at day to day and that's how it goes on. 392 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: But there's nothing over the horizon, there's nothing there for them. 393 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 2: So I do incorporate these lessons which I write about 394 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 2: in The Christ Cure, to help people say, Look, you're 395 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: not the only one. I'm not the only one. I 396 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: know what it's like to really as I say, curse 397 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 2: the sunrise because I didn't want to get up again. 398 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: But there's other people who've gone through this in ways 399 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: that you can really be what Paul writes in Romans 400 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: twelve to two, to be transformed by a renewing of 401 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: the mind powerful. 402 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: Interestingly, though, you also emphasize the physical side, that taking 403 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: care of your body is integral to taking care of 404 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: your mind. 405 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: It has to be there. We know there's massive amounts 406 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 2: of research now that I use the acronym faster because 407 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 2: when I was a Navy my captain says, hey, you're 408 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: going to give a lecture on suicide resilience in about 409 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: three hours, So come up with something. So what came 410 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: to me was fitness. Those who are physically fit, regular 411 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: strength and cardio training. It is a great treatment and 412 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: resilience against depression. In many cases, it is as effective 413 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: or more effective than medication. Medication can be very effective 414 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: for some people. It may change how you feel, it 415 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: doesn't change how you think. It doesn't change your body. 416 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: But we know that when a person is traumatized, the 417 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: stress hormones that go onto the body cause a number 418 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: of problems. It causes inflammation in the brain and joints. 419 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: They get more achy, they don't want exercise, they can 420 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: put on weight, they take some medications put on weight too. 421 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: And the real treatment for that. The frontline offense, again said, 422 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: is get up and move. But when a person is traumatized, 423 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: they don't want to move, but you got to. So 424 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: the idea of doing three or four days a week 425 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: walking brisk pace, doing some strength training is without a 426 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: doubt extremely important. One of the reasons that many people 427 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 2: when they leave the service crash on this is they 428 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: stop their physical training and with that then they're losing 429 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 2: these aspects. Another part is sleep. Having regular sleep of 430 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 2: seven to nine hours is important. Now, I should say 431 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: sleep is very difficult for some with post traumatic stress. 432 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: That's one of the science and symptoms that sleep is 433 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: very disrupted with nightmares, with having trouble going to sleep, 434 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 2: having trouble waking up, sleeping too much, waking up a 435 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: lot during the night. But that's a big part of it. 436 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 2: Diet is also very important. Nutrition When we are struggling 437 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 2: with trauma and psychological distress, what do we do? We 438 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 2: eat junk food, burgers, the potato chips, they eating a 439 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,719 Speaker 2: whole bag of oreos, all those things that go with it. 440 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: Disastrous force physically, because all of these things end up 441 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: contributing more to the physical problems that lead to the 442 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: sensation which we then may label as depression and anxiety. 443 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: And if I could elaborate on that, when we first 444 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: face a trauma, I call it trauma in triplicate. When 445 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: we first face a trauma, there is the immediate aspect 446 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 2: there which can give us almost a flashball memory, where 447 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: we can remember where we were, what we were doing, 448 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: what the smell, sites sounds, taste, every thing was at 449 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: that time. Pretty amazing. When you talk to someone who's 450 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: been through a traumatic experience and autoacs and or being 451 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: told their diagnosis, or being in war, whatever, remember a 452 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: lot of details the second level, but that's past. Can't 453 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: do anything about that that's over. The second level is 454 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: what happens what we call a loop memory. We go 455 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: over and over and over and over it, and quite frankly, 456 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 2: some people after tragedy and trauma may practice the trauma 457 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: tens of thousands of times. Now you do anything that 458 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: many times, you're going to get pretty good at it. 459 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: But what we're really doing is forming these fiber tracks 460 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: in our brain, which I say it's akin to if 461 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: you go out west in the United States, you can 462 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: still see the Oregon Trail. You can still see the 463 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: wagon ruts. There's been no covered wagons there for a century. 464 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: You can still see them and think of your brain 465 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: like that. The more we rehearse the trauma, the worse 466 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 2: it gets for us. The third thing, though, is we 467 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: have what I call a reaction reaction. That is, now 468 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 2: we feel the sensations of depression and anxiety, and we're 469 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: reacting to them. See. I feel tired, I can't get moved, 470 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 2: I feel sad, I don't want to be around people. Wow, 471 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 2: this must mean I'm really sick. I can't get better. 472 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: Oh no, If I can't get better, my whole life 473 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: is doomed. It's hopeless and so we get caught up 474 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: in that with more panic. We can't do anything about 475 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: the first part, the first trauma, or we can definitely 476 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 2: change the second one and the third one. And this 477 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: is where my book comes into help. 478 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: When you have a traumatic experience or when you start 479 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: to slide into depression, to the degree that you can 480 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: reinvest yourself in faith and invest yourself in exercise, those 481 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: two steps can make a dramatic difference in the likelihood 482 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: of you coming out of whatever has been bothering you. 483 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: That's a fair assessment. And even as we look at 484 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: the Apostle Paul, he walked tens of thousands of miles, 485 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: but he also had this really cool thing. He was 486 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 2: a tent maker, so he made his money to get 487 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: by When he was in Corinth. There's this isthmus that's 488 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 2: there that ships would drop off their goods at one end, 489 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 2: I think about a four mile adversary area. The ships 490 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: would then travel around because these are treacherous waters off 491 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: of Greece, the ag and c the like, and so 492 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 2: they'd leave their cargo there. The ship would go around. 493 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: They didn't want to lose the cargo. But as the 494 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 2: goods were then being transferred over this area. You had 495 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: a lot of people around who look for entertainment, and 496 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: so they had these things every two years called the 497 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: Isthmian Games, kind of like the Olympics. Olympics every four 498 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: years into Issmin Games are there and Paul would watch 499 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: these people train, the boxers, the wrestlers, the racers, something 500 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 2: else called pancreation, which was like a cage fight without rules. 501 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 2: And he would see this and he would note all 502 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 2: the training people went through and he would say, you 503 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: can't just train to shadow box, you have to train 504 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: to win. And he developed this incredible passion for making 505 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: sure we're committed to being physically healthy, the body being 506 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: the temple of the Lord. But it is the other 507 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: part that it is. When I talk about faith, it 508 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 2: isn't just an action to go towards it. Faith is 509 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 2: really an acceptance. So we may we embrace our hope, 510 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 2: we may embrace our recovery, embrace forgiveness and guilt. But 511 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 2: faith is something different. Faith is something that some people 512 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 2: use the word surrender, but it really is accepting that 513 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 2: with faith, that's accepting that God exists. You also accept trust, 514 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: which accepts that God is there for you, even to 515 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 2: the things we do not understand. God is there for us. 516 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: Whatever is happening, there is a reason for it, we 517 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: may not know what it is, and that even trust, 518 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 2: the prayers are answered. Sometimes they're not answered yes, sometimes 519 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 2: they're answered no, and sometimes they're answered not yet, but 520 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 2: they're there. The third part of this acceptance is accepting 521 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: grace that we're loved, that when we feel alone, that 522 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: no one cares about us, that no one loves us. 523 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: It's a pretty cool thing to realize we always have 524 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: been loved. We're never going to be abandoned. No matter 525 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: what we do. There's always the love of God with us. 526 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: And when someone accepts that, it carries them through those 527 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 2: times of the incredible loneliness and despair of trauma and depression. 528 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: And the fourth part of acceptions is that we have 529 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: a mission, We have something we need to do, to 530 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 2: work on ourselves, to help other people as well. So 531 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: you combine those aspects and that's where a person with 532 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: trauma and recovery has a purpose. And very often what 533 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: we feel is there's nothing I can do. I'm lost. 534 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: I've lost my job, I lost my spouse, I lost 535 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: this whatever, I lost my friends. And the answer with 536 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: faith is no, you haven't. There's things all along you 537 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 2: can do, and it gives you that median purpose in life, 538 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 2: which is a fundamentally important part of recovery and renewal. 539 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: It's an amazing journey you've been on it. In a way, 540 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: I can sort of see circular from your Jesuit high 541 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: school that in a way has come back full circle. 542 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: But in another way, you really have created sort of 543 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: a pioneering look that's really very different from much of 544 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: modern psychology. 545 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: This is different when you look at people who are counselors, psychotherapist, psychologists, etc. 546 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 2: That what is trend it is that about a third 547 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 2: of them say they don't believe in God and they 548 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: don't talk about it at all. About fifty two fifty 549 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: three percent say they're uncomfortable talking about it because we're 550 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: also talked don't talk about politics and religion in the 551 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: counting session. And the rest are willing to talk about it, 552 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 2: and some even encouraged to talk about it. But I think, 553 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 2: wait a minute. The majority of people who'd identify as 554 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: being religious and spiritual when you survey them, the majority 555 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: sixty seventy percent say would like it if my therapist 556 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: talked about it. I mean, this is what they do. 557 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 2: This is when they go to church and whether standing 558 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: or kneeling or prospect, whatever it is, when they're struggling, 559 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: they pray, they want help, and if the therapist doesn't 560 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 2: want to talk about it, then think, I guess this 561 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: is taboo. Similarly, I might say clergy, about forty percent 562 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: of people who are struggling deeply with psychological issues will 563 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: turn towards clergy, priests, rabbi's, pastors, whatever, But only about 564 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: ten percent of clergy say they feel comfortable counseling understanding 565 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 2: the psychological principles that go with it. My book is 566 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 2: there to help both not only help those who have 567 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: been traumatize and the people who love them, but for 568 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: counselors and clergy to learn how to do it. It 569 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: is different. It's not politically correct, but it is psychologically correct. 570 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 2: We live in a world now where people very worried 571 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: about all the phobias we have. Well, we've also got 572 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 2: a christophobia. Now. We have people who are openly attacking 573 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: people's religion and faith. We have the FBI investigating churches. 574 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 2: Oh please, this is our respite. This is where people 575 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: go to try and heal in a world that is 576 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: always attacking. This is something that I hope that other 577 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: counselors will turn towards too, to say, well, how do 578 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: I do this, how do I talk about faith in 579 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: the context of this, not to convert people, but to 580 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: say there is a lot of parallel here that even 581 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: the basics of psychology. One of the things that's out 582 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: there is something called cognitive behavior of therapy. And this 583 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: was a discovery by some therapists decades ago who said, 584 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 2: if you change the way you think, you can change 585 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: the way you feel and then change the way you 586 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: behave William James talked about this even in the early 587 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: part of the twentieth century. But what happens is if 588 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: you go back what I quoted before, when Paul says 589 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: to be transformed by a renewing of the mind, he 590 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 2: said that over two thousand years ago. When you look 591 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: at thousand years before that, Solomon and writing Ecclesiastes talked about, hey, 592 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: there's a time for this, there's a time for that. 593 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: You got to adjust, you got to think the lessons 594 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: go through there. So it's not that by suppressing or 595 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: ignoring the aspects of faith in the counseling process. We're 596 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: really ignoring thousands of years of a human experience to 597 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: say it makes a difference. So I'm hoping that colleagues 598 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: in the field of counseling will be more willing to 599 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 2: look at this and embrace it instead of running away 600 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:40,479 Speaker 2: from it. 601 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: I want to thank you. I think you're being a 602 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: pretty courageous pioneer. I think your new book really reminds 603 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: us that there's hope for recovery for those dealing with 604 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: trauma on PDSD and for their families. And I think 605 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: that the insights you shared both in your book and 606 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: today will both uplift and encourage people. And I want 607 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: to recommend everyone get a copy of The Christ Cure 608 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: Ten Biblical Ways to Heal from Trauma, Tragedy and PTSD 609 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: so on sale now. We're going to link to it 610 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: on our show page. And Tim, I really appreciate you 611 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: spending the time talking with us. 612 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: And thank you so much for having the courage to 613 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: talk about this as well. I do want to let 614 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: people know I have a website Doctor Tim Murphy dot com. 615 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 2: That's dr Tim Murphy dot com where I will post 616 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: more blogs and podcasts on Rumble and Spotify to talk 617 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: more about these issues. So the book is part but 618 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: I'll continue from there to help people heal. And again, 619 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: thank you for your courage to talk about this because 620 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 2: we need to let people know there's a way to heal. 621 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest doctor Tim Murphy. You can 622 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: get a link to buy his new book, The Christ 623 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: Cure on our show page at neut world dot com. 624 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: Neutuorld is produced by Game with three sixty and iHeartMedia. 625 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan and our researcher is 626 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 1: Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created by 627 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at Gingrish three sixty. 628 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to 629 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and 630 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: give us a review so others can learn what it's 631 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consign up for 632 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: my three freeweekly columns at gingristhree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 633 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.