1
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,280
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: podcast that is expertly introduced every single time by Margaret Kildroy,

3
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 1: who is me and in particular, I also want to

4
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: introduce Caitlyn Deronte. I don't know why. It's in particular,

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: I really prove to lie about the first thing that

6
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,880
Speaker 1: I said. But Hi, Caitlin, how are you? Can you

7
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: save me?

8
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 2: Oh? It's here, I come to the rescue. Caitlin in particular.

9
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:33,560
Speaker 1: Name Caitlin is the host of the Bechdel Cast, where

10
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,000
Speaker 1: they talk about movies, but they're not allowed to talk

11
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: about men and who are in the movies because yeah,

12
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: which has ever made this joke?

13
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,199
Speaker 2: Because every movie is about men? So yeah, kind of

14
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,879
Speaker 2: really say like five words to each other and then

15
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 2: we have to end the episode.

16
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what else I can talk to women

17
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: about besides men. Oh, there's a bunch of men in

18
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,840
Speaker 1: this episode last Monday head well whatever, there's also some

19
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 1: women in it, so, including Sophie. Stop. Sophie's the producer.

20
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,959
Speaker 1: Ian is our audio editor who can't say Hi, Hi Ian, Hello?

21
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: Unwomen did our theme music? And this is part two

22
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,640
Speaker 1: in our Derive through Surrealism, which will piss off some

23
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 1: situation as somewhere because the situations didn't like the surrealists,

24
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,080
Speaker 1: and then the ones who invented the concept of derief,

25
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 1: but it was based on the surrealists. That's not what

26
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,560
Speaker 1: we're talking about today. Last time we talked about a

27
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 1: bunch of shit THEYD in World War Two, because I

28
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 1: figured i'd start with some of the action. This time,

29
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to start with their precursors. I'm actually not

30
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna talk about some people who inspired

31
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: them because they some of them inspire me too. Some

32
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 1: of them I don't like. Yeah, so let's do it.

33
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

34
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: Okay. In one of the last episodes, we did not

35
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: me and Caitlin but means we talked about John Henry,

36
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: the guy who beat the steam engine? Right, and I

37
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: actually was, wait, I want to ask I ask everyone

38
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,120
Speaker 1: this now, do you know that John Henry was a

39
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: real person? I M.

40
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a pretty generic ass sounding name.

41
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 1: So, oh, the like the guy who beat the steam

42
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 1: engine in the song maybe this is the different rocks

43
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:22,359
Speaker 1: we live under.

44
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 2: I don't know this reference.

45
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: Okay, never mind, there's this like myth about the like

46
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 1: like John Henry is a steel driving man and he's

47
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: faster than any machine and he like beats the steam

48
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 1: drill and then he dies.

49
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 2: Right, I okay, I am familiar with this.

50
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a real person. We did a whole episode

51
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,680
Speaker 1: about it, and he was a black convict who went

52
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 1: on to go and serve as the model for Superman

53
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,160
Speaker 1: and Captain America. Therefore all modern comics hmmm. And our

54
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,640
Speaker 1: guest prop pointed out that history keeps proving again and

55
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: again that black people invented everything, and he's not wrong.

56
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: I have this pet theory that I'm working on, which

57
00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 1: is that basically everything to cool, everything cool that comes

58
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: out of is based on coo Europeans looking around and

59
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: being like, oh God, our society is evil and shitty,

60
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 1: what is better and finding inspiration from colonized people, indigenous people,

61
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,280
Speaker 1: enslave people, and their descendants. These Western folks are desperately

62
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: trying to counteract the shittiest parts of their society, which

63
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: plays into the history of appropriation, capitalism and blah blah

64
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,640
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But it's also really interesting and so

65
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 1: this is my way of saying, a bunch of the

66
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 1: people who inspired the surrealists were black, and even though

67
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 1: actually there were a ton of black surrealists, and we'll

68
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: talk about them later, but they're not the face of

69
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,080
Speaker 1: the movement. I want to talk about this guy named

70
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 1: Pascal Beverly Randolph. I'm just gonna assume you haven't heard

71
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 1: of him, because I hadn't heard of him, and no

72
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 1: one I know has probably heard him unless you're into

73
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: like specific occultist stuff. I have not. He is fucking wild.

74
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 1: He is one of the forefathers of American occultism. He

75
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 1: was a sex magician and a spiritualist.

76
00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 2: Define sex magician. Oh we're gonna okay, good, sorry to

77
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 2: beat you. Yeah no, no, actually, in not fucked up ways.

78
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 2: I think that's what's the thing that's wild is I

79
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 2: am describing everything that would be a shitty con man

80
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 2: m hm. Instead he is an earnest seeker of wisdom

81
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 2: who is trying to help people and succeeds. Okay, great,

82
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: it's like the really wildest story. He may or may

83
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,160
Speaker 2: not have been an actual doctor. He certainly called himself one,

84
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 2: speaking of things that are very con manny. He if

85
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: I had known about him before I started this four parter,

86
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 2: he might have gotten some episodes on his own. He's

87
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 2: just really fucking cool.

88
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 1: He was born in New York City in eighteen twenty

89
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,239
Speaker 1: five to a free black mother and a white father.

90
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,839
Speaker 1: Through his white dad, he may or may not have

91
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 1: been descended from this guy, William Randolph, one of the

92
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: founders of the Colony of Virginia, which means that our

93
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: black sex magician who helped inspire surrealism might have been

94
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 1: related to everyone from founding father and third President Thomas

95
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 1: Jefferson through the Confederate General Robert E.

96
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:03,599
Speaker 3: Lee.

97
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 1: Some scholars think he made of his pedigree in order

98
00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,159
Speaker 1: to confront racism in his career, because racism was a

99
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 1: major impediment in his career, which like fair whatever.

100
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, I would make up all. I would say,

101
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 2: I have two masters degrees. Yeah, it's weird because they're

102
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,600
Speaker 2: both in screenwriting, just from different schools. Yeah, University of

103
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 2: Boston and Boston University. Yeah, congratulations. We are less than

104
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 2: ten minutes in. So Pascal's dad runs out on the family.

105
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure race is a factor here, the white dad.

106
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: His mom died of cholera when he was six. I'm

107
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,159
Speaker 2: sure race and its attended poverty is a factor. Here

108
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,000
Speaker 2: and he grew up homeless in nineteenth century five.

109
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 1: Points Manhattan, which is not an easy time. That's like

110
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,279
Speaker 1: the like bad part of there's not a lot of

111
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: good parts of Manhattan. Twenty five. He taught himself how

112
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: to read and write, and then he fucked off on

113
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: a sailboat as a cabin boy in a deckhand and

114
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 1: saw some of the world. He came back after five years.

115
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: He worked as a boot black, a dyer, and a barber.

116
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: At some point he converted to Roman Catholicism. It did

117
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 1: not stick, and he studied mysticism everywhere he went, and

118
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,720
Speaker 1: then he got involved in the spiritualist movement. I assume

119
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 1: everyone has heard Jamie Loftus's series Ghost Church, but in

120
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: case you haven't, have you ever heard of Jamie Loftus Klein.

121
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 2: I know the name, yeah, but I haven't. We have

122
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 2: never met. We've just we've we've done a podcast together

123
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 2: for seven years, but we've never met face to face.

124
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 1: And well, one of you is dead and being spoken

125
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,600
Speaker 1: to by a spiritual media. No, oh, it's not gonna

126
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: it's me.

127
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:02,600
Speaker 2: Oh dead. I wasn't going to tell you if I've

128
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 2: been dead the whole time. Is this the sixth sense.

129
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: So Ghost Church is a podcast that talks about the

130
00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 1: spiritualist movement, and it's like people who do seances and shit.

131
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: That was wildly popular in the nineteenth century. It was

132
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 1: actually remarkably tied into radical politics in a way that

133
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 1: I did not expect to keep running across spiritualists as

134
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 1: I do this podcast. He gets involved in the spiritualist movement.

135
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't stick with it, but he's there for a while,

136
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 1: and he goes on behalf of that movement around much

137
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 1: of the world. He studies at least somewhere between being

138
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: a deckhand and be working with the spiritualists. He goes

139
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 1: to at least Cuba, France, England, Syria, Turkey, and Egypt.

140
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 1: And you wouldn't believe how hard I had to work.

141
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 1: You might believe how hard I had to work to

142
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 1: dig up more than just traveled in Africa and find

143
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: an actual name of a specific country, right if Africa

144
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: is a country, which it's not. Along the way, probably

145
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 1: when he was about twenty five, Pascal married a black

146
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 1: woman and had three kids with her, though it's the

147
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, so only one survives to adulthood. Fourteen years later,

148
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: they get divorced, and he marries a white Irish woman

149
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,920
Speaker 1: with whom he had another kid. And both of his

150
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: wives were his actual partners and spiritual practitioners of their

151
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 1: own and he I think kept up with all the kids,

152
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: and he didn't do what his dad had done. And

153
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,960
Speaker 1: also I had to look this up. I was like,

154
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 1: how did he marry a New York State is one

155
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:35,760
Speaker 1: of the very few states in the US that has

156
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 1: never outlawed interracial marriage, so it was even legal for

157
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 1: him to marry that Irish woman. But he didn't last

158
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 1: long in a spiritualist movement because he wasn't a con man.

159
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: He was probably lying here and there about his past.

160
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,239
Speaker 1: His black wife may or may not have been an indigenous,

161
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 1: but was absolutely selling Native American medicine for a living.

162
00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 1: But he he wasn't a con man because he wasn't

163
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: He was seeking actual trances, right, And he was like, Oh,

164
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,280
Speaker 1: you all are just doing weird shit on stage or

165
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 1: stage magicians. This is not of interest to me. You know.

166
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: He was specifically into being mixed race. He didn't love

167
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 1: he didn't love the way that people exoticized him. But

168
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: he talked about how he channeled multiple racial identities and

169
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 1: it helped him channel the spirits. He said, quote, I

170
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,440
Speaker 1: owe my successes to my conglomerate blood, my troubles and

171
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:31,439
Speaker 1: poverty to the same source. And by eighteen fifty eight

172
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 1: he leaves a spiritualist movement. He's like, y'all's trances are bullshit.

173
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 1: You're faking, and you're a bunch of racists, and you're

174
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 1: claiming to be activists trying to make the world better,

175
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,080
Speaker 1: but you're just doing it for clout and money and

176
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 1: fuck you. He also, in contrast to spiritualist teachings, he

177
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 1: was basically a universalist. Instead of believing that only select

178
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,679
Speaker 1: souls are immortal, he was like, every soul is equal,

179
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,959
Speaker 1: every soul is immortal. At one point he moved to

180
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 1: Boston and declared himself a medical doctor because he'd read

181
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: lots of books on the subject. So he's shaking her

182
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,240
Speaker 1: head now the hand is on the face. I like

183
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,600
Speaker 1: how this just as easily could be a setup for

184
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 1: someone who just turns into a terrible cult leader, right, Oh,

185
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 1: for sure. But he's like the good person one as

186
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, you know. He set up

187
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 1: the first Resicrucian societies in the US, which I had

188
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: to look up. It's an occultist movement that goes back

189
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: to the early seventeenth century in Europe. Basically, they're like, oh,

190
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 1: there's like a secret order of like secret knowledge that's

191
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: going to like set the world right. He labeled his

192
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 1: shit as resacrution. He said that he admitted this later

193
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: because he had a lot of spiritual teachings and since

194
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: he was black, no one was going to take him

195
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,840
Speaker 1: seriously unless he gave it a label that like white

196
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 1: people were already like new and we're familiar with. And

197
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 1: the current order that he started doesn't like to talk

198
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,480
Speaker 1: about their founder's sex magic. But he goes around and

199
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,959
Speaker 1: he's traveling. He's forming secret societies all over the place,

200
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 1: or at least claiming to some of them. Might have

201
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 1: been like I set one up in Denver and it

202
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: was me and I swear there was like fifty guys there,

203
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: you know. But he had all these spiritual teachings. It

204
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,079
Speaker 1: was the sex, drugs and rock and roll type thing.

205
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: Too early for rock and roll, but sex and drugs,

206
00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 1: especially hashish, could lead to spiritual enlightenment when paired with study,

207
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 1: according to him. And he's selling all this shit through

208
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 1: mail order, Like really, I'm setting it all up, right,

209
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: But half of the shit that he's selling through a

210
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 1: mail order is free, and all of his prices are

211
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 1: like rock bottom, like barely breaking even because he's not

212
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,720
Speaker 1: a grifter, and he seemed to be into free love,

213
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 1: not as I want to be a cult leader and

214
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 1: have a million lover's way, but an actual women's liberation

215
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,679
Speaker 1: way like we were talking about last time. Right, It's

216
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 1: so funny that I'm so skeptical of like free love

217
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 1: and all that shit, even though like polyamory is like

218
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,880
Speaker 1: a fairly major part of modern queer culture, you know, right,

219
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 1: but also as many of the same problems.

220
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 2: I mean, well, that's the thing, the lot of a

221
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 2: lot of yeah, like liberating movements can get and have

222
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 2: been weaponized against the people who are Yeah, yeah, it's

223
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 2: but yeah, I see what you mean. But yes, yeah,

224
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 2: polyamory all the way, Yeah, said Caitlin.

225
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:26,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also was a gender rebel and probably pansexual.

226
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: He also makes the oldest reference to a non binary

227
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: gender with a specific name that I've ever read. I'm

228
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 1: sure there's other ones, but the oldest one I've ever read.

229
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 1: He wrote, quote, I believe in love all the way through,

230
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 1: and while I live, I will help every man, woman

231
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,040
Speaker 1: and the in the betweenities to win, obtain, intensify, deep

232
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,280
Speaker 1: and purify, strengthen and keep it in betweenity just between

233
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,040
Speaker 1: these okay, between the y Yeah, I love it. I

234
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,280
Speaker 1: know that was non binary, Like, no, I'm not non binary,

235
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:02,119
Speaker 1: I'm a between.

236
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 3: Of the Yeah.

237
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 1: He also declared that earthly gender was provisional, that your

238
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: soul itself isn't gendered, just your body on earth, and

239
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 1: that God was both genders. He also taught both feminine

240
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: and masculine magic, but that was intentionally the gender of

241
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 1: the magic, not the practitioner, which, as my weird tangent,

242
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 1: is fairly Odin of him. Do you know that Odin

243
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:37,959
Speaker 1: practice women's magic? No, the like every fucking nazis favorite

244
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: god Odin you know, oh.

245
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 2: Because of right Norse mythology.

246
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah yeah, And he's like presented as like as

247
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,840
Speaker 1: if he he's the all Father, right, although I like

248
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 1: the LGBT supportive Pagans who are like Odin is the

249
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: all Father, not the so Father, but he willingly gives

250
00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 1: up his eye. This is a complete tangent, But I

251
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 1: wrote into the script because I like this story, he

252
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 1: drinks from the pool of knowledge. He gives up his

253
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 1: eye to drinkrom the pool of knowledge. He learned satyr,

254
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: which is women's magic and is also the magic of

255
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 1: men who take the submissive role with other men, because

256
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 1: all throughout history running this thing where instead of like

257
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,839
Speaker 1: there being a stigma against men being gay, there's a

258
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,480
Speaker 1: stigma against men being the receptive partner in sex. This

259
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: tangent brought to you by Margaret's Adhd the Pascal. He

260
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 1: also wrote, quote, it don't follow that all who wear

261
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: the penis are in soul true males, or that a

262
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 1: vagina is the sign of womanness, which pushes him so

263
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 1: the fuck far ahead of his time from a sexology

264
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 1: point of view. Seriously, he skipped several steps. I was

265
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: like reading like some people were like, oh, he like

266
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: predated the inversion theory of late nineteenth century stuff. He didn't.

267
00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 1: He skipped that entirely. He went to fucking modern trans theory. Yeah,

268
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:02,600
Speaker 1: he rules.

269
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

270
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 1: By doing sex magic, the stuff he taught, he promised

271
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,280
Speaker 1: people better sex, better health, women's liberation, and also the

272
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 1: kids you make during sex magic will be smarter.

273
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 2: So wait, okay, I still am not clear on the

274
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,520
Speaker 2: definition of sex magic and sex magician.

275
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,920
Speaker 1: I am not as versed on this because most of

276
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 1: the time when I meet someone who describes himself as

277
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 1: a sex magician, I am run screaming the opposite direction, sure,

278
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 1: which is not fair to many people who practice all

279
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 1: kinds of shit that are as cool and like enrich

280
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,960
Speaker 1: as people's lives. I just distrust men. But I believe overall,

281
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 1: he's like turning talking about turning sex into ritual and

282
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: like working on like consciously developing like other ways to

283
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: have sex, and like be very conscious about sex. That's

284
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: my inference. I don't actually wrote like forty some books,

285
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: and I mostly just read about him instead of like

286
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:03,680
Speaker 1: reading his books.

287
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so it's time to read forty books, you know.

288
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 2: Apparently not me. I'm busy playing Zelda.

289
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 1: Have you started the new Zelda?

290
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

291
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 2: I just did like four days ago, and I've done

292
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 2: nothing else.

293
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you didn't cancel this week.

294
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 2: So I honestly was like, I was like, can I

295
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 2: get away with playing the game while.

296
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm I mean, I'm playing Baller's Gate three right now,

297
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 1: but that's different.

298
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 2: Sort No, But I took time out of my busy,

299
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 2: Zelda schedule to talk with you your wife.

300
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Yeah. So his slogan,

301
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: tied to his dislike for church and traditional marriage, was

302
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 1: quote love forever against the world. And he believed that

303
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 1: as we learn to unlock ourselves, we'll be able to

304
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 1: bring in a new world, a new epo of human history.

305
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: And this is where he starts getting kind of surrealist, right.

306
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 1: And he's also he has like two very different lives.

307
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: He has like himself as a sex magician and a

308
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 1: traveling actually oddly not a con man, doing all the

309
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 1: same things that conman do. And then also he was

310
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 1: an abolitionist and he was involved in political stuff, and

311
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,399
Speaker 1: like largely the two didn't affect each other, right, Like

312
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,119
Speaker 1: he didn't hide them, I don't think. But he was

313
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 1: all about abolition as a pre Civil war, He's going

314
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 1: around touring the South talking about abolition, spending a lot

315
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,679
Speaker 1: of time in New Orleans, hanging out with voodoo priestesses,

316
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 1: and like being a free black man from New York

317
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 1: and voluntarily going to the South is like braves shit,

318
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 1: very dangerous. He took a gradualist rather than revolutionary stance,

319
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 1: which tended to offend his fellow abolitionists for good reason.

320
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: But whatever, he had more skin of the game than

321
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,920
Speaker 1: I did do or whatever. You know, I'm not trying

322
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 1: to Some people didn't like him in the abolitionist movement.

323
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 1: During the Civil War, he spent his time recruiting black

324
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 1: soldiers for the war. He was already in his forties,

325
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 1: and I don't think he fought directly himself. After the war,

326
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: he spent a lot of his time in Louisiana teaching

327
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 1: thousands of black people how to read and write through

328
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 1: the Freedmen's Bureau schools during a time when white racists

329
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 1: were attacking every black person and white Republican they could find.

330
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: He lived there during the New Orleans Massacre of eighteen

331
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 1: sixty six, in which probably fifty black people and three

332
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 1: white allies were killed by a racist mob, so he

333
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 1: slept with pistols under his bed as the death threats

334
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: came in for his daring to teach black people how

335
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: to read. He wrote quote, if Hell is any worse

336
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: than New Orleans, I pity the damned. He was a

337
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: good writer. Yeah, he got a little millenarian after that.

338
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 1: He predicted a great apocalypse was coming, that the white

339
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: people would give the Southwest to black people and he

340
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 1: would march off towards their Zion with them. He lectured

341
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: and wrote extensively about black rights. Unrelated to his occultism,

342
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: he formed the National Equal Rights League. His other personal

343
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 1: motto was we may be happy yet, and it applied

344
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: to both of his interests, magic and emancipation. And one

345
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: of the reasons I like him so much is he's

346
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: like a he's a seeker, right, He's someone who wasn't

347
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: convinced there was He wasn't convinced he was right, but

348
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: he explored spirituality to the best of his knowledge, and

349
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: he wrote. He wrote shit that contradicted his previous shit

350
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,360
Speaker 1: as he changed his mind as he learned new things. Right,

351
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: And that's cool. I think that's a good thing.

352
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

353
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 1: He believed in the spirit realm, and he believed that

354
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 1: our souls are it's like, not totally dissimilar from the

355
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: Big Bang kind of even though that wasn't developed scientifically

356
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: until the twentieth century. Basically, that like the thoughts of

357
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 1: God have spread out all over the galaxy, falling like

358
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,679
Speaker 1: dust onto certain worlds where they slowly collect into geological formations,

359
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: ants and non human animals before eventually they might become

360
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 1: human souls. Then when you die, your soul returns not

361
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: to the dust, but instead travels to the spirit realms,

362
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: which are Sometimes he writes it about them as being

363
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 1: around planets, galaxies, or beyond space itself, and it depends

364
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 1: on how enlighten this particular soul is where you end up.

365
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: In his earliest writings with his internalized racism, he says

366
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: that the white souls are the most developed and they're

367
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: going to end up like in the coolest spirit realms.

368
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: By the end of his life, it's people of color,

369
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 1: not just black people, who are the most developed and

370
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: are in the coolest parts of space, and white people

371
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: who are damned mm hmm or have more to more

372
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:47,959
Speaker 1: development to do, just not inherently wrong. Through study and

373
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: drugs and sex, one could drop through the outer world

374
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 1: into the world below, into the spirit realm, which he

375
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 1: sometimes conceptualizes under the earth and other times is the

376
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 1: interior of one's own soul because inside of us microcosms

377
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: of the universe. And yeah, he lived his life and

378
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: he did that shit nice. In July eighteen seventy five,

379
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 1: at the age of forty nine he died. He most

380
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 1: likely shot himself in the head with a revolver. He

381
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 1: was destitute, and he was resentful of the white occultist

382
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: world continuing to ignore him. A friend and fellow occultist

383
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: on his deathbed claimed to have killed Pascal during a

384
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: fit of temporary insanity, but it's likely that this later

385
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 1: confession is a lie. It's likely that he took his

386
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:39,679
Speaker 1: own life. And yeah, his wife continued to publish his works.

387
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 1: He published forty five books and pamphlets while he was alive,

388
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 1: and all of the big occult groups after he died.

389
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: It drew on his legacy because black people have been everything,

390
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: and the Surrealists also drew on this. His writing about

391
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: the unconscious world seeping into the conscious world and particular

392
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: influence them. But a lot of the influence information about

393
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: black influences on the Surrealists didn't start being acknowledged until

394
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: the later incarnation of the Surrealists and like the sixties

395
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. And we'll get to that at some point.

396
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: But what we're going to get to first is, uh,

397
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: what's something good? We can be sponsored by books, but

398
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: libraries lost books. Yeah, yeah, everyone listening should write at

399
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: least forty books in their life.

400
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

401
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,719
Speaker 1: If you don't, what are you doing? Why are you alive?

402
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: Loser alert?

403
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely to be taken seriously, and just like

404
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: you should take these ads seriously. Here's some ads, and

405
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: we're back and we're talking about how awkward it'll be

406
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: if I ever have to do host red ads anyway, whatever,

407
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: more influences. The Surrealists are all about automatic writing, right,

408
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: letting the unconsciousness, like like, hey, God, take the wheel,

409
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: only without God, you know, hey, dream take the wheel

410
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: and produce stuff. And if that sounds like improvisational music

411
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: like jazz jazz, that's not a coincidence. As far as

412
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: I can tell history, the West is like the only

413
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: place that's ever been really super whatever's only plays I've

414
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: found that has been super obsessed with, like music should

415
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,719
Speaker 1: be written down and performed exactly as it's written. And

416
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: this is even only the recent West, which leads me

417
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: to a tangent. Okay, there's this finished instrument called the contelee.

418
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: It's a kind of zither. I've made a couple of them.

419
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: I think they're really cool and I like playing them.

420
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: And I listened to an interview with the traditional contelet

421
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: player and he was like, well, the traditional way to

422
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: play this instrument this is sit in the corner of

423
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: the house, probably drink, have your dog, sleep on your feet,

424
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 1: let that rest of the house do their own thing,

425
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 1: and then make up whatever you want as you and

426
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: just like suck around on it. Yeah, And it's not

427
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 1: about playing specific compositions. It's about channeling, right, It's about

428
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: improvisational music. Everyone has known this forever, with the exception

429
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: of Western Europe during some certain time period. But the

430
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: Surrealists are from Western Europe in that certain time period.

431
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: So improvisational plane. This is like a fucking epiphany, right.

432
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: Jazz is imported from the US, in part by black

433
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: soldiers from the US or in World War One, and

434
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,719
Speaker 1: the Surrealists are super into veteran of the pad Josephine Baker,

435
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: the black superstar who moved to the France, moved to France,

436
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: fought Nazis and had a pet cheetah whoa Yes, she's

437
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: a real quote. You should check out that episodes.

438
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: Better.

439
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: There's another jazz musician in particular who influenced them, though

440
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: not right at the beginning, and so he's not really

441
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: a pre curb he gets called a crew precursor. But

442
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: I think people are playing a little fast and loose

443
00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: with history sometimes. Felonious Monk who basically was this like,

444
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: he was born in North Carolina nineteen seventeen. He learned

445
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: all the Western greades on piano and he was like, nah,

446
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: I'm good. I like jazz. And his quote is the

447
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: piano ain't got no wrong notes. And he revolutionized piano plane.

448
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: He also got involved in the civil rights movement, and

449
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: he inspired the fuck out of the surrealists more influences.

450
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: What's your take on edge lords?

451
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I find being I find edge lord behavior

452
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 2: pretty irritating a lot of the Yeah, as far as

453
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: just yeah, you know, yeah, I'll leave it at that.

454
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: One of the things that really fucks of my head

455
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: as I read more and more history is that, like

456
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: what an edged lord is. I mean, obviously people aren't

457
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: using that word except for recently, but like someone who's

458
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: like edgy on purpose and playing with like dark stuff

459
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: that might trigger people or whatever out of like shake

460
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: things up, you know, for its own sake. What that

461
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: means has been different politically and like culturally, like at

462
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: different times, and like wildly differently. It has been used

463
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: by like aggressive shitty centrists, the far right and the

464
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: far left, and not often at the same time. They

465
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: seem to like pass it back and forth like a

466
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: hot potato. You know, right now the potato is in

467
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: the right wings hands, I think, and I don't so.

468
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: One of the original Edgelords in literature is a character

469
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: named Malderour, and he is a protagonist of a book

470
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: from the eighteen sixties called La Chanton about Malderoor The

471
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Songs of Maldour. I have tried to read it. I

472
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: hope one day to succeed. My god, it is dense.

473
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 2: What's the name Malderour?

474
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: Maldo m A L D O R.

475
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: O R sounds like a Lord of the Rings character, honestly,

476
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: and Zelda character. Totally not to bring it back to

477
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: Zelda again, but.

478
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: If Zelda, if the character was in Zelda, Zelda would

479
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: be a very different game.

480
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 2: Okay, well, and say more about that, please.

481
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: Well, first time I tell you about a dog named Alderar. Okay,

482
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: Because I've been on a fucking adhd bender this week.

483
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: I read so many different books about surrealism and they're

484
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: all so different. I just was like, whatever, I'm doing

485
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: this thing.

486
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: I think this okay podcast tone tonally this or this

487
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: you know what is it? Four parter of episode so on?

488
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: Surrealism is surrealist.

489
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: That's my intention? Yeah, yeah thanks. My surrealist friends in

490
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 1: Baltimore had a dog name and he was super cool

491
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: and smart as hell. And this is where I first

492
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: heard about Maldraur and rest in peace, you good boy, Malderer.

493
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: He was the first dog I ever met where they

494
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: could be like, go get the following toy and the

495
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: dog would go to the chest and pick out the

496
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: correct toy and come back.

497
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 3: WHOA.

498
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, is dog's smartest. Shit. He's also the inspiration for

499
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: me naming my dog Rentraw, because I thought, if my

500
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: super cool friends can name their dog after an obscure

501
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: figure from literature, so can I. So can you Rentraw?

502
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 3: What?

503
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 2: Literately?

504
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: What?

505
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah?

506
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: Always in the script, I was like, this is where

507
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: I reveal the origin of my dogs name, because I

508
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: was talking about my dog. I'm Rinshaw is a character

509
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: from William Blake? Who is this? I'm almost certain I'll

510
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: do an episode about William Blake eventually, once I figure

511
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: out the way to make it. Entertaining to people besides me.

512
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: He's a proto anarchist who wrote and illustrated. He like

513
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: did some of the first illustrated manuscripts in the Western tradition.

514
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Like think, he's like sometimes like a precursor of the

515
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: modern graphic novel because he'd like write really weird theological

516
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 1: shit and then draw it too. And he was a

517
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: printmaker and he like so he engraved it all by hand.

518
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: He basically made zenes. He was a weird fucking zineester

519
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: who I like a lot. Rintrall's the name of a

520
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: character who represents the just rage of the prophet. The

521
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: first line from his book The Marriage of Heaven and

522
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: Hell is Rintraw roars and shakes his fires in the

523
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: burdened air. And no, I can't tell you what that

524
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: means because I don't understand it, but it's pretty mm hmm.

525
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: And I understand a lot of the rest of that book.

526
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: So okay, that's what's important.

527
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the back to Maldor of the character, it is

528
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: about a man who has abandoned traditional morality in violent

529
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: and absurd ways. That's that's kind of you know, And

530
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: it's like there was a time in the nineteenth century,

531
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: where doing that was like, holy shit, someone tried something

532
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: wildly new, whereas now you're just like, whooped to do?

533
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: In gill little like small flag that you like, you know,

534
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: like this book is attributed to Comte de la trement,

535
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: which is the pen name of a poet named Isidore

536
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: Lucien Dakau isidor read all the Romantics or another influence

537
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: about the Surrealists I'll get to one day. And he

538
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: was a depressed trust fund kid, so very like the surrealists,

539
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: who wrote furiously late at night and self published the

540
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: book with his dad's money. It's just very surrealist of it. Again,

541
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: I'm kind of talking shit. I don't know what percentage

542
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: of the I don't know what percentage of the surrealist

543
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: or trust fund kids, but art world early twentieth century

544
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: was a lot of them. Otherwise weren't. And so he

545
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: wrote this book and he was like, oh, look how

546
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: I jam. But then he started an inversion of it

547
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: called Songs of the Good that was built on courage

548
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: and hope and faith, which is the kind of thing

549
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: that a modern edgelord would not do. Because I think

550
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: he actually was like I want to explore different parts

551
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: of the human psyche. Right, But before he could do that,

552
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: Prussia besieged Paris in eighteen seventy and the conditions of

553
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: the city got worse, and Isodor died at age twenty

554
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: four in eighteen seventy. So that was the other reason

555
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: I forgive him or whatever. Anyway, So this Edgeloord's thing

556
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: is honestly part of the core of surrealism, the idea

557
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: of tapping into the unconscious and writing things that up

558
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: end the values we assume have it like, it has

559
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: its own value from the surrealist point of view, right, Yeah,

560
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: and this is like part of this how the concept

561
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: of being edgy and up ending values and morality and

562
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: all this stuff is like goes back and forth. The

563
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: far left was doing it in the sixties and early seventies,

564
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: centered around Michael Moorcock and creating the concept of the

565
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: anti hero, or rather popularizing the concept of the anti hero.

566
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: But now it's like the concept of the anti hero

567
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: is this like really interesting thing? And now it's just like,

568
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: of course, your detective smokes cigarettes and hates women, Like, congratulations,

569
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: who's an edgy boy, You're an edgyp boy.

570
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: It's not even Edgi anymore, because everyone's doing it.

571
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: I know the real Edgen is Hope.

572
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: That's why I love Paddington so much.

573
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Edgie Paddington. Have you seen the memes that are

574
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: where there's like the person who photoshops them into different

575
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: movies stills?

576
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, of course you have. I've seen that.

577
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: There's also oh what, why don't I remember her name? Ever?

578
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: The star of the movie eighth Grade?

579
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: Whose name is I've heard of eighth Grade? I went

580
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: to eighth grade.

581
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: We did that too, So I'm talking about Elsie Fisher.

582
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: I almost always call her isle of Fisher. That's someone

583
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: else Elsie Fisher had for a while she would like

584
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: change her Twitter account to Evil Paddington and then she

585
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: would tweet stuff that Paddington would say if Paddington was evil,

586
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: and it was the funniest bit I've ever seen.

587
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: Ok, this actually gets into like some of the things

588
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: that I keep thinking about when I'm researching this, where

589
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: it's like all of the shit that the surren less

590
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: are doing, or the people before them are doing. It's

591
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: like we blow through cultural ideas, like our like machine

592
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: for culture is just overclocked now, like like it's like

593
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: we used to have abacuses and now we have supercomputers.

594
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: We're just like and everyone gets to participate. So all

595
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: of these culture things, cultural things like happen so fast

596
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: and like you know, and they're not less good or

597
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: less important or less interesting than like the Surrealists, just

598
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: because like the surrealisted certain things first, but they didn't

599
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: really right, but they like you know, and like I

600
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: really like the Surrealists. But we live in a beautiful, strange,

601
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: absurd time where culture happens really quickly, and Evil Paddington

602
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: is like the kind of thing that would have broken

603
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: these people's minds.

604
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 2: Right, and in our modern world it was just like

605
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: a random blip slash, a random bit that has come

606
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: and gone.

607
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. But the blip who had come and gone Isidor,

608
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: who died at twenty four, wrote this one book, self

609
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: published it later, I think it got picked up by

610
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: some other people in nineteen seventeen, when the surrealis is

611
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: going to find a copy of La Chanta Maldor and

612
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: the character becomes their icon. Here's the person who's like

613
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: against everything, right, you know, he's their prophet alongside Baldiire

614
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: who wrote the book the Flowers of Evil, just poetry book,

615
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: and who also fought in the eighteen forty eight revolutions.

616
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: And then Arthur Rimbaud, who is a gay author who

617
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: wrote a Season in Hell and fought in the early

618
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: Paris Commune but got out before everything went to shit

619
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: and everyone died, who also wrote poems about Louis Michelle,

620
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: the anarchists here of the Commune. Anyway, what I'm trying

621
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: to say is, all though cool old edge Lord's actually

622
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: like threw down in all these revolutions. If you're an edgelord,

623
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: now one, cut it out. It's not as interesting anymore

624
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: to get into Paddington, I guess. And three all your

625
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: heroes were leftists. Get with a program. Okay, yes, all

626
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: of this pushing traditional morality had a limit even to them, right,

627
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, we like Maldoror who like and we

628
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: like people imagining evil and all this shit. And then

629
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: fucking Dolly starts putting out paintings of like Hitler naked

630
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: and sexy and the other surrealists. He has a bunch

631
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: of paintings, including like more recent paintings that are like

632
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: Hitler masturbating or whatever. It's like what they're called they're

633
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: too surreal for whatever anyway, and the other surrealists are like,

634
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: are you fucking serious, my man, And so they ran

635
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: him out of the surrealist group in nineteen thirty four

636
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: for a while, and then for good they like put

637
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: him on trial and then decided not to kick him out,

638
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: and then in for good in nineteen thirty nine, when

639
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: DOLLI was like, yeah, but I like Franco but like

640
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: for real, and they were like, you gotta go, like

641
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: you're a fascist. For some straight Dolly quotes, just to

642
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: fucking clear the air for anyone listening, Dolly said, quote,

643
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: we don't want happiness for all men, rather the happiness

644
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: of some to the detriment of others, since oppression and

645
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: suffering are primordial psychological, biological, and physical conditions for the

646
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: happiness of the rest. And then I'm going to read

647
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: an even worse one. Okay. So first he wrote about

648
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: how the death penalty was like human sacrifice, but it

649
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: was a good thing, oh my god. And then he

650
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: wrote that Nazism was a surrealist government and the swastika

651
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: is a surrealist symbolo. He also like vaguely got involved

652
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: in the Allies trying to fight the Nazis, but not

653
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: in a useful way, and he wrote, quote the domination

654
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: or submission of all colored races was possible if quote

655
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: all the whites united fanatically like he's just like actually

656
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: the worst. And I'm going to read one more quote

657
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: a bit more brutal than I usually read on the show,

658
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: because I fucking hate Dolly, he wrote in a letter

659
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: to Britton, the surrealist leadery guy who I actually really like,

660
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: Dolly wrote quote, I declare that even though I may

661
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: have pity and a negative opinion of the cruel lynchings

662
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: and bonfires, I admit to feeling real pleasure and considerable

663
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: sexual excitement in reading about such things, and do not

664
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: intend to censure those who burn blacks alive and lynch them.

665
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: I consider I have to consider the legitimate pleasure that

666
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: drives these people. Yuck. Yeah, these are fucking monster Yeah.

667
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: And I think that that like shows the like limits

668
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: of the like edginess that they're sort of interested in,

669
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: right in the same way that Magree's started like painting

670
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: flowers and shit. When the Nazis occupied things, you know, right,

671
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: they're like evil is a really interesting concept. And then

672
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: when evil is like personified in the world. They're like, Nope,

673
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: not that that's the enemy.

674
00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean there's all like everything's all about context, right,

675
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: Totally like to question and challenge the status quo is

676
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: not inherently edge lordie, because a lot of times the

677
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: status quo is bad and needs to be restructured or whatever,

678
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: but like to be edge lordy just for the sake

679
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: of like wanting to get someone riled up. Yeah, that's

680
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: what I associate like edge lord totally if you're with totally.

681
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Dolli after the war, he moves to

682
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: Spain and converts the Catholicism of the Francoist National Catholicism type,

683
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: and he spends the rest of his days raving about

684
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: how like monarchism is the real rebellion or whatever, like

685
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: fucking Nick Fuentes type shit. And I will argue that

686
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: Dolli was kicked out. He was not a surrealist. He

687
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: was the inversion of surrealism. He was like the like

688
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: the dark mirror of it. But you know, there's a

689
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: danger having edge lord heroes. But there's still something interesting

690
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: about Maldaurar. And we're gonna talk about one more precursor,

691
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: and it's the need to eat food and therefore advertise stuff.

692
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: Food is a type of stuff. They call it food stuff.

693
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: Yell me, here's the meds and we're back. We're going

694
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: to talk about one more actual precursor. Germenberto was a

695
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: French anarchist lady. She was raised in a working class,

696
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: Republican like left wing family. She wanted to get into

697
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: drawing and shit, she went to art school when she

698
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: was like ten because she was like winning all these

699
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: awards for a drawing. Then her dad died and she

700
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: had to as a pre teen leave school to go

701
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: work in the factory. Because this is I mean, like, frankly,

702
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: this is why so many of the artists back then

703
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: were fucking like trust fund kids, you know, because German

704
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: wanted to be an artist and had to not die instead.

705
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean it.

706
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: You have to be surrounded by a certain level of privilege,

707
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: should be able to even have the time and energy

708
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: to create art.

709
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people do create amazing art, and you know,

710
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and it's just is less likely

711
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: to be held up in the like art world, you know,

712
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: sure for sure. When she was thirteen, she fell in

713
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: love for the first time with a soldier who immediately

714
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: died in World War One, and she was like, oh,

715
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: war is bad. And then in a factory she joined

716
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: the union and pretty much immediately got arrested for giving

717
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: a speech that was like I think she's like probably

718
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 1: like you know this, like teen girls given a speech.

719
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, what about violence, guys, And we tried violence.

720
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: That might solve some shit, help things get better around here,

721
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: you know. So they were in jail. She got arrested

722
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: multiple times for writing different insundiary things. By the time

723
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: she was eighteen or so, the Anarchist Union of Paris,

724
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: and she wrote about how soldiers should dessert, presaging that

725
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: great surrealist activity being the coolest fuck lady, you tell

726
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: soldiers to dessert? She oh, you'll appreciate this part. She

727
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: took on a lot of debt from rich banks with

728
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: no intention of repaying it as like a specific class

729
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: war thing, like as a way to rob the rich, right,

730
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: hell yeah. She also lost a lover to suicide, a

731
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 1: guy who had been drafted and was like, oh no,

732
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: I can't, I don't want to be drafted killed himself.

733
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: She had a not fucking easy chunk of life. Actually,

734
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: it never gets less rough, unfortunately. But she's interesting. This

735
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: fascist thing starts happening in the early nineteen twenties, like

736
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: it hits France, like not long after it hits Italy,

737
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't take over quite as hard. She's like, well,

738
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: until it does, I guess during World War Two. But whatever,

739
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't like this. This fascist thing is

740
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: not my style. And there's this guy, his name's Marius Platau,

741
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: who runs a far right newspaper and also the National

742
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: Federation of the Night's Camelot, which is the far right

743
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: youth organization of the time, and they're trying to bring

744
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: back the monarchy much like today's. Wow, it's almost exactly

745
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: one hundred years ago. Is exactly one hundred years ago

746
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: the thing we're talking about today, and we are now

747
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: dealing with people who are trying to set up far

748
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: right night organizations to bring back the monarchy. So Jermn

749
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: was like, well, I have a problem, and I have

750
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: a revolver. So that far right newspaper he runs, it

751
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: has an office. On the twenty second of January nineteen

752
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: twenty three, she walked into the building and shot him

753
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: five times and killed him. She spent eleven months of

754
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: waiting trial in jail, and the whole time she maintained

755
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: her guilt. At no point did she'd make any other

756
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: claim other than I shot and killed that man because

757
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: he was.

758
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 2: Bad, Like, yes, I definitely did it.

759
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: There was a nun there who was supposed to like

760
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: talk with the prisoners, you know. It was like a

761
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: sign to the jail jer men managed to basically convince

762
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: the nun to like leave the convent, I think, to

763
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: be an anarchist for a while. That later she returns

764
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: to the convent. I hope she stayed both. That's my

765
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: personal hope, you know. And this trial is a big

766
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: fucking thing. And this is like right before the Surrealists

767
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: announced themselves by being like we're the Surrealists, right, And

768
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: the jury is like, you know, carefully considering the evidence,

769
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: and the jury is like, well, she says she's guilty,

770
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: but I don't think she did anything wrong. Fuck that guy,

771
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: and they fucking let her off. She's found not guilty.

772
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: J Yeah, sometimes you just have to stand your ground

773
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: and then everyone will be like I mean, yeah, yeah,

774
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: all right, yeah actually yeah.

775
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: The rest of her life was not super happy, and

776
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it because there's a

777
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: lot of people around her dying and suicide and stuff.

778
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 1: Her trial, though it's set a fire in the minds

779
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: of the Surrealists. Her mugshot appeared in like one of

780
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: the first issues of their magazine, surrounded by the other

781
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: Surrealists and alongside some of their other heroes like Freud

782
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: and Picasso, and the caption was a quote from Baldaire,

783
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: the woman is the being who cast the greatest shadow

784
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: or the greatest light in our dreams. And so it's

785
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: like this is them being like, we are obsessed with

786
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,479
Speaker 1: the woman as muse, but the woman as muse isn't

787
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: like check out her tits. It's like this woman had

788
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: a revolver and put five shots into the head of

789
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: the monarchist movement.

790
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I yeah, fair I would yeah.

791
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: No note honestly, and there are other precursors and inspirations

792
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: Freud has talked about all the time. It's true that

793
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: they were stoked about his ideas about dreaming. He's overstated

794
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: as an influence. He's like presented as like the only influence,

795
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: I think, because he's like one of the least political

796
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: of their influences, and then Picasso and you can go

797
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: read about Picasso and Freud anywhere you want, So I'm

798
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: not gonna bother. We're not done with this derive. When

799
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: we come back next week, we're going to talk about

800
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: the dataists, the early Surrealists, and then the living movement

801
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: that gives the hippies the phrase. Oh yeah, it's surrealists

802
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: who came up with the phrase make love not War

803
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: in the sixties. And probably, but I can't promise we'll

804
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: find more ways to talk shit on Dolli as well

805
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: as the surrealists who went over to Stalin. Okay, Cliffhanger, Eh,

806
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: thank you, thanks for Why are you always drawing attention

807
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: to my Cliffhangers. I'm acknowledging, I'm acknowledging You're brilliance. Oh thanks, thanks.

808
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: It's important. But if people are interested in you're brilliance,

809
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: not you, Sophie, but you, Caitlin. I mean, if you're

810
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: interested in Sophie's brilliant, then.

811
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: We'll make space for you too. Sophie. Yeah, my brilliance

812
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 2: can be found kind of everywhere. I've fact speaking of

813
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: influence and inspiration, No, I kid, uh, but you can

814
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: listen to The Bechdel Cast, which I co host with

815
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 2: Jamie Loftis, and we talk about movies through an intersexual

816
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: feminist lens. Margaret has been a guest. Definitely start with

817
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 2: that episode if you've never heard the show, or start

818
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 2: anywhere you want, you know, do whatever you want. Yeah,

819
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: you know, be be follow your heart and you can

820
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 2: follow me online. I guess at Caitlin Dorante.

821
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bechdel Cast is my favorite movie podcast. I didn't

822
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: expect that I would like movie podcasts, and I listened

823
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: to Bechdel Cast, and now I listen to the Bechdel Cast.

824
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

825
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: You might have a similar experience, or you might already

826
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: like movie podcasts. If you don't like the Bechdel Cast,

827
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: there's probably you should talk to somebody. You should get Yeah,

828
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: you should fix it. You go to therapy. Yeah, and

829
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: if you want to follow me, you can follow me

830
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,479
Speaker 1: on substack. I write a new essay every week. Half

831
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: the time. It's like more personal, like memory journalist type stuff,

832
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: and that's only for the people who are paid subscribers.

833
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: But then every other week is free content. I write

834
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: more about history, I write more about politics. I write

835
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: about preparedness. I swear it's more entertaining than those three.

836
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: Well whatever you hear me. Listen to talk about history.

837
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: If you made it this far you think I'm not boring,

838
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: I hope, And if you do, also you should like

839
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: if you hate, listen to podcasts like that's interesting but

840
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: not good?

841
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: Well? Who are you an edge lord? Yeah?

842
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

843
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: Which would fit on your wait? Would it? Yeah? Would

844
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: don't get that tattooed on your knuckles? Usually, I there's

845
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: positive things. Mal door would also fit, but that would

846
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: be another edgelord tattoo, but it would be like a

847
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: pretentious one, which is cooler. Maybe Sophie rescue me. I mean,

848
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: do you have any plugs, Sophie.

849
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Listen to the four part series James Stout just

850
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 3: did about the Marsha Islands on It could happen here, and.

851
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: You'll learn that the word bikini comes from terrible things

852
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: that the US government has done.

853
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: Listen to the climate change episode. It's really good. If

854
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: you're gonna if you only have.

855
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: Ten for one see everyone next week.

856
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

857
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

858
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

859
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia Dot com or check us out

860
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

861
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 3: your podcasts.

862
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:01,959
Speaker 1: Here