WEBVTT - How hard is it to steal a work of art?

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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<v Speaker 1>It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know

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<v Speaker 1>from house Stuffworks dot Com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Josh Clark to my left, Charles W. Bryant to

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<v Speaker 1>my right, Jerry the Killer Roland. Yes, thank you, Chuck

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<v Speaker 1>to your immediate immediate right. Yeah, within two inches. It

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<v Speaker 1>looks like in sniffing distance. As she's pointed out, there's

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<v Speaker 1>enough of that. Okay. Yeah, Hey, so how you doing, great, sir, Chuck, Josh?

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever seen art? I hate art, Chuck, Let's

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<v Speaker 1>let's do something different. Yeah that was nice though, Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you. Chuck knows a guy who hates art? Yeah, one,

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<v Speaker 1>a guy who knows a guy who hates art. One

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<v Speaker 1>of my friends read Nick Cousin, said that one time,

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<v Speaker 1>I hate art, just art, whatever makes a lot of sense, movies, poetry, filmy, sculpture.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate art. A guy's name art. It's like that

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<v Speaker 1>old joke about a guy hanging on the wall. Go ahead, No,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to um. Actually, Chuck, we are we

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<v Speaker 1>have I think come and gone. On the twentieth anniversary

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<v Speaker 1>of the largest art heist in US history. It happened

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<v Speaker 1>in Boston. Yes, men, what was the name of the museum,

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<v Speaker 1>Isabella Rosalini Art Museum, the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in Boston,

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<v Speaker 1>And some dudes made out with two hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars and paintings, rem brands, They got sketches and

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<v Speaker 1>a manet. Yeah, and they actually did it in high style.

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<v Speaker 1>They dressed up in Boston police uniforms. Dropped by the

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<v Speaker 1>museum after hours. There were two security guards on duty,

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<v Speaker 1>both of them college students. UM. And they went to

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<v Speaker 1>the door and like waved at the security guards who

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<v Speaker 1>buzzed them in. And then I guess you some employ

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<v Speaker 1>to get them away from their desk which held the

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<v Speaker 1>the alarm buzzer. UM overpowered them, duct taped them, and

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<v Speaker 1>then spent eighty one minutes in this uh, in this

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<v Speaker 1>museum pilfering it. But they think that these guys were

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<v Speaker 1>local boys who didn't know what they were doing because

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<v Speaker 1>he passed by probably southeast, They passed by some very

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<v Speaker 1>very expensive works of art and took those day gas

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<v Speaker 1>sketches instead. Um. But they still pulled it off. They

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<v Speaker 1>pulled off the heights of the Century. I was reading

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<v Speaker 1>an article and I think the Boston Globe with an

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<v Speaker 1>FBI guy who was talking about um. They they, I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>reignited the case or something. Now they're they're using new

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<v Speaker 1>DNA techniques on the duct tape and billboards, digital billboards

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<v Speaker 1>in Boston going up asking for information. But you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>the statute of limitations of being involved in that crime

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<v Speaker 1>ran out, So what does that mean they want that

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<v Speaker 1>artwork back? Yeah, so that was an example of a

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<v Speaker 1>very low fi theft operation. No, that's actually high fi

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<v Speaker 1>as far as art theft. Well, that was my point though,

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<v Speaker 1>is that art theft is very low fi. Yeah, across

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<v Speaker 1>the board. A guy very famously made off with the

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<v Speaker 1>Mona Lisa in nineteen eleven. Can I say how he

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<v Speaker 1>did that. He's a worker there at the and he

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<v Speaker 1>uh hid somewhere in the museum, waited till the museum closed,

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<v Speaker 1>came out, cracked it out of its frame, put it

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<v Speaker 1>under a shirt, and walked out. That's how he stole

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<v Speaker 1>the Mona Lisa. Have you ever seen the Mona Lisa? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>very small, it is surprisingly small. Jerry just nodded like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>a woman was actually Reese ly Um arrested for throwing

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<v Speaker 1>a mug at the Mona Lisa because she was rejected

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<v Speaker 1>for French citizenship. And yeah, I remember that she was

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<v Speaker 1>taking it out on old Mona. Although it's like behind

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of protection now, a bulletproof class. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>back then it was. The funny thing is is it

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<v Speaker 1>sat empty for a few days, a couple of days

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<v Speaker 1>without the museum doing anything because everyone just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>assumed that someone knew that it was being cleaned or something,

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<v Speaker 1>and someone knew about its whereabouts. And then finally somebody

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<v Speaker 1>eventually went, oh, wait a minute, you don't have it.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't have it, so then they alerted the cops,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, which actually when we were doing research in

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<v Speaker 1>this article, and this is by the way, part two

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<v Speaker 1>series partooning, the series of how easy is it to

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<v Speaker 1>steal blank? Sure? Right, we started with nuclear weapons, now

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<v Speaker 1>art now art um And what I found from researching

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<v Speaker 1>this article is it's extremely easy to to steal art

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<v Speaker 1>compared to like a bank or like a die then

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<v Speaker 1>jeweler or something like that. It's not like the movies.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't have the the laser beams with Katherine Zita

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<v Speaker 1>Jones shimming and sliding around under the laser beams. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not entirely certain that was Catherine z to Jones

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<v Speaker 1>body double. Yeah. But you can very easily walk into

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<v Speaker 1>a museum with a gun, as was done in two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand four in Oslo, Norway, when somebody walked in with

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<v Speaker 1>a gun and stole the scream yes, Edvard monks the

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<v Speaker 1>scream yes. And that is the second time that that's

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<v Speaker 1>been stolen in the past fifteen years alone, And in

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<v Speaker 1>the past twenty years there have been dozens and dozens

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<v Speaker 1>of major paintings, including twenty works by Vincent van Gogh

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<v Speaker 1>from a single heist in Amsterdam. And as we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to tell you, there's a weird law in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>next year, those very paintings may be available legitimately on

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<v Speaker 1>the open mark. Now now it'll it'll be ten years

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<v Speaker 1>from next year. How is it twenty years? It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>twenty years for any art. And in the Netherlands is

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<v Speaker 1>the only country that has this law, right Chuck, Yeah, No,

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<v Speaker 1>it's twenty years for um any work of art, thirty

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<v Speaker 1>years if it's from if it's stolen from a public

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<v Speaker 1>collection like a museum, or if it's registered as a

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<v Speaker 1>national heritage item, but in the Netherlands it after the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty or thirty years passes, transfer of rightful ownership goes

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<v Speaker 1>to the thief. So these guys, if they're smart, they're

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna hang hopefully they're young, and they're just gonna

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<v Speaker 1>hang onto them and then sell them for boatloads of cash.

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<v Speaker 1>This Dutch, wacky, wacky Dutch. But there are ways around this.

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<v Speaker 1>The Dutch just recently busted a group of art thieves

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<v Speaker 1>UM who had stolen some works of art from a

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<v Speaker 1>private gallery UM and after twenty years were coming forward

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<v Speaker 1>UM with the art and they they were set up

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<v Speaker 1>by this private detective. Was like, well, it was like

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<v Speaker 1>a movie. They were set up by this private detective

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<v Speaker 1>in the Dutch National Police and he was going to

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<v Speaker 1>help them blackmail the gallery owners family or whatever. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>But he actually handed him over to the police who

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<v Speaker 1>caught them and the statute of limitations had run out,

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<v Speaker 1>but the works of art were still listed as stolen,

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<v Speaker 1>so they got them for handling stolen goods and laundering money.

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<v Speaker 1>A Dutch gum shoe and a Dutch loophole. I love it.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I tell you about one of my favorites in

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand. Yeah, the Swedish National Museum. These dudes came

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<v Speaker 1>in with a machine gun, stole a Renois and a Rembrandt.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is where it gets smart. And they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>just walk in with a gun and leave. Before the robbery,

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<v Speaker 1>they laid out spikes on the roads so the cops

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<v Speaker 1>would you know, get flat tires, toot sweet and uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Right before the robbery. They had accomplices and other parts

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<v Speaker 1>of the city to other parts that set off bombs

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<v Speaker 1>to just instill bunch of chaos going on. Not not

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<v Speaker 1>a bad idea, No, it's really not. Although if you're

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<v Speaker 1>bumbles somebody up, you got murder wrap tacked on as well. Well, yeah, true,

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<v Speaker 1>very true. And uh, can I tell the one about

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<v Speaker 1>Zurich to this. Just two years ago, this was another

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<v Speaker 1>gun deal. Three three dudes broke into the I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't broke in. They waltzed in to the E.

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<v Speaker 1>G Foundation Museum in Zurich and they basically walked in

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<v Speaker 1>when it was wide open full of people and pulled

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<v Speaker 1>their guns and said everybody freeze, everybody get down on

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<v Speaker 1>the floor. Nobody moved, nobody get hurt. Right, Yes, that

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<v Speaker 1>was my raising Amazon reference of the show. Nice, remember

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<v Speaker 1>the old guy, But which is it you want? I

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<v Speaker 1>should freeze or drop? So they basically just got the

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<v Speaker 1>four paintings closest to the door, all on one wall,

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<v Speaker 1>still in their protective cases. They walked out. Included a

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<v Speaker 1>says A, Monet, Degas, and Evan and uh. They found

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<v Speaker 1>two of these in the back of a car nearby

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<v Speaker 1>a few days later, and they just figured that they

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<v Speaker 1>were too heavy, so they just kind of let's just

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<v Speaker 1>drop two of them. But they were smart enough to

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<v Speaker 1>keep the most expensive one, right, Yeah, well lucky they

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<v Speaker 1>think that they grabbed it because they think they just

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<v Speaker 1>grabbed the fore closest one. That was a says on

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<v Speaker 1>the the boy in the red waistcoat. Um. So you

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<v Speaker 1>can just walk into a museum with a gun or

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<v Speaker 1>gallery with a gun. Um, you can set off some bombs,

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<v Speaker 1>you can put down road tax, that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's one way to do it. There were some guys

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand one, um who drove their jeep through

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<v Speaker 1>the front door of a museum and made off with

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<v Speaker 1>some paintings worth four million. Um. You could wage a

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<v Speaker 1>war who did that? Oh, it happens in every war,

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<v Speaker 1>there's actually been a huge dissolute for art. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>a huge push that's been ongoing to return what's called

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<v Speaker 1>Holocaust era art um to the heirs of the rightful owners.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of times the Nazis were like, give us

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<v Speaker 1>this and we won't kill you, and then you gave

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<v Speaker 1>it to him and then they killed you anyway. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and then that art gets matriculated into the underground and

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<v Speaker 1>then legitimate art world. But there's actually a type of

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<v Speaker 1>um cultural law that's developed, and there's these lawyers making

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<v Speaker 1>tons of cash in threatening to sue or filing suit

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<v Speaker 1>against people who own holocauster artwork to return it to

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<v Speaker 1>their rightful owners. Often this is museums as well. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you remember what is it the was it artwork from

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<v Speaker 1>Machu Picchu? M m The guy from Yale went down

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<v Speaker 1>to Peru, I believe, and got something from Machu Picchu

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<v Speaker 1>or a bunch of stuff from Machu Pichi, took it

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<v Speaker 1>back to Yale and Yale basically refused to hand it

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<v Speaker 1>back over to Peru for decades. Just finally recently did

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<v Speaker 1>it dude? They think they are Yale's Wow, have you

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<v Speaker 1>ever stolen art? Yeah? Shut up that used to be

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<v Speaker 1>part of the game. I on my recent vacation, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think I told you about this. I went to

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<v Speaker 1>a gallery and Sausalito, across from the across the Bay

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<v Speaker 1>and across from San Francisco, and there was a gallery

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<v Speaker 1>right next to my little end that had original Dr.

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<v Speaker 1>Seuss paintings. Wow, had like ten of them, really really cool.

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<v Speaker 1>How much were there? I think they were like they

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<v Speaker 1>were under ten grand? What Yeah, I seem to think

0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 1>they were under ten grand or around tin grand. They

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<v Speaker 1>were really cool though, and I really wanted to steal

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<v Speaker 1>them because I don't have ten grand. You could just

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<v Speaker 1>write a bad check. That's good point. Sure you should

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<v Speaker 1>have done that check cutting it doesn't carry quite as

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<v Speaker 1>much of a penalty as art theft. And then, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>do you remember in the Zoo episode where I said

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<v Speaker 1>that Toledo has a surprisingly good art museum. Yeah? Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a pretty famous heist in UM with a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of paintings that were en route to the Guggenheim,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were on loan from the Toledo Museum of Art. Yes, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were some professional art transporters that had their

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<v Speaker 1>truck and we're transporting this art and then parked overnight

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<v Speaker 1>at a motel in Strasburg, Pennsylvania, and the people just

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<v Speaker 1>looted the truck made off with the paintings. I think

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<v Speaker 1>they were recovered. Yeah. I was at the Googgenheim U

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of years ago and I was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>in there at a bad time. I think said a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of their really good stuff that was being transferred.

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<v Speaker 1>It might have been during that thing, but they were

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<v Speaker 1>they were sitting there and they're big boxes that they

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<v Speaker 1>used to ship them, just kind of right there and

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<v Speaker 1>there was no one watching them. I mean, they were huge.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I couldn't have just walked out, Or maybe I

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<v Speaker 1>could have if I would have had a machine gun. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody get down. Everybody freeze. Uh So, Josh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>off well and fine and fun, But why would you

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<v Speaker 1>steal art? What can you do with a Van Gogh

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<v Speaker 1>that you have stolen? Well, first off, we should say

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<v Speaker 1>that um art theft, that the the trade of stolen

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<v Speaker 1>art ranks third in the world as far as illicit

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 1>activities go in generating money estimated six billion annually because

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<v Speaker 1>they're so art is really really, really expensive. Sure, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>um and it's right behind drugs. And then arms, no,

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<v Speaker 1>it isn't bad. Um, well it is bad, right yeah yeah, Um.

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.160
<v Speaker 1>So I would say money is the big reason why

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 1>the thing is is when you are stealing. Actually, I

0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 1>would say money is the only reason why. But how

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 1>do you unload art is I'm getting to that. I'm

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 1>getting that settled down. When you when you steal art,

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 1>you're going to get maybe a tenth of its legal

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.439
<v Speaker 1>market value on the black market. If you get a

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.079
<v Speaker 1>twenty million dollar painting, that's pretty good scratch sure, that's

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 1>two million bucks right there, right yeah, um, and you're

0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.240
<v Speaker 1>going to get a tenth. You're going to get a

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 1>tenth of its value two different ways. One you're gonna

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.600
<v Speaker 1>sell it to an unscrupulous dealer. It's so funny they

0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 1>always use the word unscrupulous. It's part of the art world.

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>When they're talking about art theft, the word unscrupulous always

0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.440
<v Speaker 1>comes before somebody who is knowingly buying or you know

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 1>it's not evil or you know, low a little moral yeah, shady.

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 1>It's like saying they're they have no text whatsoever exactly.

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 1>An unscrupulous art collector or dealer will buy it, but

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.800
<v Speaker 1>it is going to buy it for ten percent um.

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 1>And you can also sell them as fakes, high high

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>quality fakes, and those usually are replicas, we should say,

0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>as they say in the art world, and those usually

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 1>fetch about ten percent of the market value um. But

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.480
<v Speaker 1>they were saying that there's there. From night to two

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>thousand ten, an estimated hundred thousand objects of art have

0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 1>been stolen just in the last thirty years. They think

0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 1>of a lot of these stolen pieces of art are

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 1>in the are in legitimate collectors collections who unknowingly think

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>that their replicas. Well, yeah, that's the one of the keys.

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 1>If you get an art, a piece of art that

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.200
<v Speaker 1>is less uh known, maybe it's not the Mona Lisa,

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>you can sell it. And then that gets sold and

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of I think they put it in the

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 1>article like art laundering. The first dealer kind of dumps

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>it quickly for a lowish price, and then they'll sell

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>it to someone. The other personal sell it and by

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>the time it gets around two or three places, and

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe it goes off to auction, the auction thinks it's

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.360
<v Speaker 1>a legit, you know, because it comes from a verified owner.

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.160
<v Speaker 1>And that happened to one Steven Spielberg. I remember when

0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>this happened, he had he found out he had a

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 1>stolen Norman Rockwell and his UH in his collection. Just

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 1>figures UM. You know, Switzerland is UH notorious apparently for

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>holding uh illegitimate art auctions. They were they're legitimate. These

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 1>are legitimate auction houses, but they're knowingly selling questionable or

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.920
<v Speaker 1>stolen art. And the very fact that it's passed through

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>this auction house and and been purchased legitimately, there's some

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of legitimacy attached to that stolen art now, right,

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 1>so it be fuddles UM claims of due diligence. There's

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 1>this thing called UM buying a piece of art and

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.160
<v Speaker 1>good faith where you're like, I didn't know it was stolen,

0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.240
<v Speaker 1>and I bought it legitimate, legitimately, so it's mine. And

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the UM international police community who deal with art theft

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>have kind of come up with these rules that are

0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 1>carried out in the court, and first among them is

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 1>due diligence. You have to go look to see if

0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>the paintings stolen UM, if your if your work of

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.600
<v Speaker 1>art is stolen, there's certain steps you have to follow.

0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>You have to alware the authorities, you have to UM

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.879
<v Speaker 1>you know put it on the stolen Art register um

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.000
<v Speaker 1>and so if it's stolen, you do you take certain steps.

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 1>If you're buying a piece of art, you have to

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 1>take certain steps. But first of among them was something

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.200
<v Speaker 1>that you mentioned was quick art sale. If you buy

0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.439
<v Speaker 1>something in haste, that should be a red flag to you.

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Somebody's just trying to unload it. Let's just do this.

0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.880
<v Speaker 1>I just want to get rid of this Rembrandt real quick, exactly.

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.399
<v Speaker 1>So if they find out that you made a quick sale,

0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 1>your claim of due diligence is out the window and

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:30.720
<v Speaker 1>you can't say that you bought it in good faith,

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and you're probably going to lose your money and the

0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:33.399
<v Speaker 1>piece of