Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're happy
Speaker 1: to announce a new hypeman has dropped. Jason Kelsey handshake emoji.
Speaker 1: Olympic Women's Rugby a match made in Heaven. Swifties that means,
Speaker 1: set your DVRs, learn the names of the players. Let's
Speaker 1: give this Olympic women's rugby team the love they deserve.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we'll be talking with four time Olympic
Speaker 1: gold medalists and four time WNBA champion, The Woman, the Myth,
Speaker 1: the Legend, Cheryl Swoops, plus our big Easter Egg reveal.
Speaker 1: It's more proof that I should not be left to
Speaker 1: my own devices. But first, here's what you need to
Speaker 1: know today. Tmusa waterpolo is currently one in one in
Speaker 1: Olympic competition after a thirteen eleven lost to Spain on Monday.
Speaker 1: This was a rematch of the Olympic final three years
Speaker 1: ago in Tokyo.
Speaker 2: Get this.
Speaker 1: It's only the US team's second loss at the Olympics
Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight. The US women's water polo
Speaker 1: team is one of the most dominant teams in the
Speaker 1: world in any sport, so it's always big news when
Speaker 1: they lose. But it also doesn't mean much in the
Speaker 1: context of the Olympic tournament. Hopefully just leads to a
Speaker 1: rematch in the gold medal game. Next up for Team
Speaker 1: USA Italy on Wednesday at twelve thirty pm Eastern in
Speaker 1: rugby in a chippy quarter final match with Great Britain,
Speaker 1: Team USA held on in one seventeen to seven to advance.
Speaker 1: Next up is a semi final match against New Zealand
Speaker 1: today at nine thirty am Eastern, live on Peacock. The
Speaker 1: US is seeking its first ever Olympic gold medal in rugby.
Speaker 1: Both bronze and gold medal games are later on this afternoon. Also,
Speaker 1: if you're still not following our rugby Queen Alana Mayor,
Speaker 1: you're like a million or so people behind, so get
Speaker 1: on that right now. You can watch her convert Jason
Speaker 1: Kelsey to hype man, stiff armed people a la Marshaun Lynch,
Speaker 1: and turn pretty much every moment of the Olympics into
Speaker 1: a comedy routine. The gymnastics team final is today, beginning
Speaker 1: at twelve to fifteen pm Eastern.
Speaker 3: Here's how it works.
Speaker 1: During the final, each country has three athletes compete on
Speaker 1: each apparatus, and all three scores count despite tweaking your
Speaker 1: calf while warming up during Sunday's qualification, is expected to
Speaker 1: compete on all four apparatuses Apparati apparatus, same with Jordan Chiles,
Speaker 1: while Jade Carey will appear on vault and Sudney Lee
Speaker 1: will compete on bars, beam and floor. The Americans will
Speaker 1: enter the team final as the favorites for gold, and
Speaker 1: they posted the best score in qualifying by a long shot.
Speaker 1: But of course, gymnastics is an unforgiving sport and anything
Speaker 1: can happen. Remember in the team final three years ago,
Speaker 1: Simone Biles, dealing with the twisties, had to withdraw and
Speaker 1: the US went on to win silver again. That event
Speaker 1: is twelve to fifteen pm Eastern, So take a long
Speaker 1: lunch break.
Speaker 3: You know I'm gonna be.
Speaker 1: Watching Team USA takes the court for the first time
Speaker 1: in three x three basketball today at eleven thirty am
Speaker 1: Eastern against Germany. That US team is going to be
Speaker 1: super fun to watch. Sierra Burdick, Derek Hamby, Ryan Howard
Speaker 1: and Hayley Vanlyth. And a quick refresher on three x
Speaker 1: three just in case you haven't watched it since Tokyo, Okay.
Speaker 1: The Games are super fast, like if you go get
Speaker 1: a snack and you come right back, you might miss
Speaker 1: it fast.
Speaker 3: Each game is only ten minutes, but it can end
Speaker 3: sooner than that.
Speaker 1: If one team reaches twenty one points, watch that on
Speaker 1: NBC or stream it on peacock.
Speaker 3: Maybe had a couple screen setups. They don't miss any
Speaker 3: of the action.
Speaker 1: Speaking of basketball, team, USA is five on five. Squad
Speaker 1: kept it tighter than expected early against Japan, but then
Speaker 1: pulled away for a one oh two seventy six win.
Speaker 1: Asia Wilson led the team with twenty four points and
Speaker 1: thirteen rebounds. We can't shout out USA women soops without
Speaker 1: a quick good game, good game.
Speaker 3: Fact you times two fact number one.
Speaker 1: With their win against Japan, it's been eleven thousand, six
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty two days since the basketball team lost
Speaker 1: an Olympic game. Fact number two. Only three of the
Speaker 1: twelve players on the current US roster were alive for
Speaker 1: that loss. Diana Tarassi, Alisa Thomas, Britney Griner shout out
Speaker 1: the olds. Speaking of USA hoops, we got to take
Speaker 1: a break, but when we come back. I had the
Speaker 1: one of interviewing Cheryl Swoops for the keynote conversation at
Speaker 1: Monday's Athletes Unlimited Innovation Summit, you can hear why she
Speaker 1: was brought to tears talking about Athletes Unlimited basketball, her
Speaker 1: take on the evolution of the WNBA, and her response
Speaker 1: to the accusations leveled against her at.
Speaker 2: The beginning of this season.
Speaker 3: Come on back, welcome back.
Speaker 1: Settle in for a great conversation I had yesterday with
Speaker 1: the legendary Cheryl Swoops. Cheryl Swoops was the first player
Speaker 1: to be signed in the WNBA, A three time WNBA MVP,
Speaker 1: four time WNBA Champion. As an eleven year member of
Speaker 1: the Houston Comets, she accumulated over two thousand career points,
Speaker 1: five hundred career rebounds, three hundred career assists, and two
Speaker 1: hundred career steals. She has won three Olympic gold medals.
Speaker 1: She's one of eleven women's basketball players to have won
Speaker 1: an Olympic gold medal and NCAA Championship, a FOEBA World
Speaker 1: Cup gold, and a WNBA title. She was elected to
Speaker 1: the Naismith Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen and the
Speaker 1: Women's Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty six seventeen. She's
Speaker 1: a coach and analyst a mom and a legend. She
Speaker 1: took on Michael Jordan and went on one at his camp,
Speaker 1: and even though she lost, she got lipstick and makeup
Speaker 1: all over his T shirt and got to take it
Speaker 1: home as a souvenir.
Speaker 2: So she's a winner.
Speaker 1: In my book, it's Cheryl Swoops the goat.
Speaker 4: What's up, girl, Shay Sarah?
Speaker 2: Hi, so great to see you again.
Speaker 1: We just hung at the WNBA All Star Week and
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to some stuff from that. But I
Speaker 1: want to actually start back when you were playing Michael
Speaker 1: at his camp.
Speaker 2: And here's why.
Speaker 1: It was this moment in time, this peak maybe of
Speaker 1: your stardom. You're getting invites to MJ's camp, You're the
Speaker 1: first player ever in the WNBA, You've got your own shoe,
Speaker 1: the air swoops like in those first couple of years.
Speaker 1: What stands out to you from that time and that
Speaker 1: attention you were getting.
Speaker 4: Gosh, I guess if I compare that time to today,
Speaker 4: I'm like, that was nothing right, because it's just crazy
Speaker 4: attention that the league's getting today. But I think for me,
Speaker 4: like back then, what really stood out, honestly was the
Speaker 4: fact that Michael Jordan knew who I was. You know,
Speaker 4: like Michael Jordan to me like, there will never be
Speaker 4: another one? Me too, girl, You'd like right, like he
Speaker 4: just he just was Michael. And I remember when I
Speaker 4: didn't get the call. My college coach at the time,
Speaker 4: Marcia Sharp, she got the call and was like, Hey,
Speaker 4: Michael Jordan wants you to come work as a basketball camp.
Speaker 4: And so I was like, wow much, Seriously, how much
Speaker 4: do I have to pay to go work his basketball camp?
Speaker 4: She's like, Cheryl, that's not how that works. But I
Speaker 4: remember just having a very brief conversation with him about
Speaker 4: he watched the Final four and he just had so
Speaker 4: much to say about my game and had so much
Speaker 4: to say about women's basketball that I was just like, Wow,
Speaker 4: We've made it. That was the That was my mindset
Speaker 4: and my thought back then. But when I compare it
Speaker 4: to where we are today, I'm like, wow, well.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that because the Wnball Star
Speaker 1: Game just had this insane ratings three point four to
Speaker 1: four million people, and that shattered the last record of
Speaker 1: one point four million that was back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and three when you were playing. But one point four
Speaker 1: million is a lot. A lot of times we say
Speaker 1: those statistics, and we don't ask ourselves, well, what was
Speaker 1: going on in two thousand and three, why was that
Speaker 1: a record? Yere right, So you were in that game.
Speaker 1: Those early years of the W had incredible attention. They
Speaker 1: were it was quite popular. People were excited about it.
Speaker 1: But then it dipped, and I'm wondering to what do
Speaker 1: you attribute some of that really high excitement when it
Speaker 1: started and then the lull before the recent major growth.
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, I really was having this
Speaker 4: conversation with someone the other day when we were talking about, like,
Speaker 4: when the W started in ninety seven, it was the
Speaker 4: excitement behind it and everyone was ready for it, and
Speaker 4: it was coming right off the ninety six Olympics. So
Speaker 4: like the enthusiasm and the excitement, people were like, give
Speaker 4: us more, give us more. And so I think the
Speaker 4: first like ten years of the W was really really fun.
Speaker 4: It was exciting, and you were winning every time. Well
Speaker 4: that made it even better. But I know people look
Speaker 4: at the game today and they're like, wow, like these
Speaker 4: women are really good. And I said to someone the
Speaker 4: other day, I said, but we've always been good, Like
Speaker 4: the game has always been exciting. I think the biggest
Speaker 4: difference today is social media to me plays a huge
Speaker 4: part of where the game is today. Right, there are
Speaker 4: more eyes and fans feel very connected to the players
Speaker 4: right or wrong, like them, love them, hate them. It
Speaker 4: gives them a space to feel like they're connected to
Speaker 4: that athlete. And at some point when the WNBA first started,
Speaker 4: right the first ten years, we're excited, I think fans
Speaker 4: got bored. I guess right, it was like, well, the
Speaker 4: comments won the first flour and someone else won this one.
Speaker 4: Like give us something different, give us something more exciting
Speaker 4: to cheer about. So at one point there it was
Speaker 4: like people forgot about the WNBA and then you lost
Speaker 4: teams right Houston, Sacramento, teams who won championships, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people forgot about the WNBA. And I think
Speaker 4: at one point the league finally figured out, like we
Speaker 4: need to continue to market this league year round. We
Speaker 4: can't just market it in the summer because in the
Speaker 4: off season people tend to forget about the WNBA.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's investment too. It bursts onto
Speaker 1: the scene and is really popular. Despite some poisoning of
Speaker 1: the well, there were very prominent male sports writers who
Speaker 1: were making fun of the w There were even some
Speaker 1: questions still do yes, but yes they usually get shouted
Speaker 1: down now though, and before it was like, hey, it's
Speaker 1: okay that there's this butt.
Speaker 2: Of the joke that we're going to make women.
Speaker 1: But I think also the marketing was an interesting choice,
Speaker 1: like some of the Sue burd in a halter top
Speaker 1: and swing cash on the hood of a car. It
Speaker 1: was like that that's not really what we're going for here,
Speaker 1: but it thrived anyway, and then it was like, well,
Speaker 1: we put some money in and now it exists and
Speaker 1: we're done, and instead there needed to be a continued investment.
Speaker 2: That seems to be a problem with a lot of
Speaker 2: women's sports.
Speaker 1: Is this idea of like putting a little bit in
Speaker 1: and then demanding ROI instead of realizing, like any startup
Speaker 1: or new business, you need to put in a lot
Speaker 1: of money with the intention that over the long haul
Speaker 1: you're going to get back what you're putting in. And
Speaker 1: that felt like some of that drought was because of
Speaker 1: not really feeling like investing in it. The early years
Speaker 1: were also a fascinating time for people to remind themselves
Speaker 1: that women are athletes and women, and you actually changed
Speaker 1: minds on that in a really meaningful way. Because you're drafted,
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to play your first WNBA season, and
Speaker 1: you get pregnant and the league decides to actually film
Speaker 1: you being pregnant, film you coming back just six weeks
Speaker 1: after you gave birth to play, and they tried to
Speaker 1: make you sort of the everyday mom that was relatable,
Speaker 1: like Cheryl Swoops has ever been every day at literally anything?
Speaker 4: I am Sarah, Well, you do have a back problem
Speaker 4: as an.
Speaker 2: So that's relatable.
Speaker 1: And the whole personal summer menopause thing that's relatable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this travels, it's right, But you help destigmatize female athletes
Speaker 1: giving birth.
Speaker 2: What was that like for you?
Speaker 1: Because you're just starting your WNBA career, You're a twenty
Speaker 1: six year old, there's all the pressure of helping me
Speaker 1: the face of this new league and you're a new mom.
Speaker 4: I mean it was a lot. But before I even
Speaker 4: answer that, I want to go back to what you
Speaker 4: ask earlier. I think one of the things with the
Speaker 4: league in the beginning was really trying to figure out,
Speaker 4: like how do we market these women? And I'm not
Speaker 4: sure the league really knew like who is our audience?
Speaker 4: Who are we trying to market to? Who do we
Speaker 4: want to get to come out to the game. And
Speaker 4: back then, right like all of us were we were
Speaker 4: trying to wear this hat only one right that the
Speaker 4: league said this is this is the image we've got
Speaker 4: to put out and this is what we need people
Speaker 4: to think we are. And today one the league has changed.
Speaker 4: But more than that, the players have basically said, I'll
Speaker 4: keep it clean. But the players honestly are like, wells, yeah,
Speaker 4: Like we're going to be who we are and you're
Speaker 4: either going to like us, you're gonna love us, or
Speaker 4: you're gonna hate us, but it's not going to change
Speaker 4: who we are as individuals. And I think that in
Speaker 4: itself has really changed where the league is. It's changed
Speaker 4: more brands wanting to get on board and say I
Speaker 4: really want you to be a part of my brand
Speaker 4: and represent my company.
Speaker 1: It's a response to society too, though for originally the
Speaker 1: league is very concerned about racism, homophobia, judgments about female
Speaker 1: athletes and whether they fill the roles of women that
Speaker 1: we expect. It was like, let's pretty them up and
Speaker 1: make sure everyone thinks they're hot while they're playing sports, right,
Speaker 1: And instead now it's just be authentically yourself feminine, masculine, gay, straight, villain,
Speaker 1: funny whatever, and just in life in society at large.
Speaker 1: Were allowing people to be themselves more and that allows
Speaker 1: the athletes to step into what you're talking about, which
Speaker 1: is massive for women's sports. I think it's one of
Speaker 1: the biggest things that has turned the tide for every
Speaker 1: single women's sports.
Speaker 4: Well, and it's and it's huge today, right because back then,
Speaker 4: you know, we there were things that we didn't like,
Speaker 4: but we didn't feel like we had that voice to
Speaker 4: necessarily stand up and say this is not right or
Speaker 4: this is we don't agree with this. And I always
Speaker 4: say someone had to be the first. So when the
Speaker 4: league started at ninety seven, we were just happy to
Speaker 4: have a league, right, didn't really matter charter flights, we had, roommates,
Speaker 4: didn't have our own room. I'm a mom. I have
Speaker 4: a roommate with a child, right, and so if I
Speaker 4: wanted my own room, I had to pay the difference.
Speaker 4: So there were so many things that looking back on it,
Speaker 4: I'm like, how in the world as a professional athlete,
Speaker 4: as an adult professional athlete, we're having to share rooms
Speaker 4: with someone else? Like I Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1: And who drew the short straw of rooming with Cheryl
Speaker 1: and her kids.
Speaker 4: Uh. But I couldn't even imagine though, having to have
Speaker 4: a roommate, right, even if I didn't have a kid.
Speaker 4: I just I need my own space. So to that point,
Speaker 4: when I found out in ninety seven that I was pregnant,
Speaker 4: it took me a while to tell the league because
Speaker 4: I had no idea how they were going to respond
Speaker 4: at first, and there was a part of me that
Speaker 4: was like, I cannot believe I'm letting the league down right,
Speaker 4: being the first player to sign and they're doing all
Speaker 4: of this marketing behind me, and then I find out
Speaker 4: I'm pregnant. So finally I was like, all right, they're
Speaker 4: gonna find out, so I need to tell them. But
Speaker 4: I have to tell you the support that I received
Speaker 4: back then from Nike and even from the league, there
Speaker 4: was never any pressure at all to come back and
Speaker 4: be a part of the league. That was important to
Speaker 4: me because I wanted to do that. But it's so
Speaker 4: crazy when I think about what I personally went through
Speaker 4: as a woman, as a mom, as an athlete, oh gosh,
Speaker 4: but just the struggles that I had to go through,
Speaker 4: and so I today I hear or I listened to
Speaker 4: like Skyler Diggins. I listened to her tell her story,
Speaker 4: and I went through those things, but I had nobody
Speaker 4: that I could talk to. So it was one of
Speaker 4: those things where I went, I practiced, I played, I
Speaker 4: did my job like no one had a clue what
Speaker 4: I was really going through, Like just on a personal
Speaker 4: level of how do I balance being the best mom
Speaker 4: I can be but also being the best athlete I
Speaker 4: can be because there was so much pressure, right, so
Speaker 4: many eyes on me. I remember reading this one story. Sorry,
Speaker 4: I didn't know I was gonna cry, but I remember
Speaker 4: reading this one article from this reporter who I won't
Speaker 4: name but he's still free. But he just basically said,
Speaker 4: like there's no way she will ever be able to
Speaker 4: be a mom and be a successful athlete, which I'm
Speaker 4: sure there are so many women who deal with that, right,
Speaker 4: like motherhood and being a career, having a career, being
Speaker 4: a wife, whatever that is. And I remember reading that
Speaker 4: and the first thing I thought was, like, you have
Speaker 4: no idea who I am, and you have no idea
Speaker 4: what I'm capable of. So like that type of stuff
Speaker 4: just only fuel my fire, right, But I also knew
Speaker 4: that there would be more women who would come after me,
Speaker 4: who would be in that same situation. So for me,
Speaker 4: it was so important that I was able to not
Speaker 4: just show the w and show men, but I wanted
Speaker 4: to show women like, like, we can do this, We
Speaker 4: can be great moms, we can have great careers, and
Speaker 4: we don't have to make sacrifices on any of it.
Speaker 4: And I won't say it was easy, but I had
Speaker 4: a great circle of people around me was I did okay.
Speaker 4: I did okay.
Speaker 1: You know what, though, it reminds me when we talk
Speaker 1: about the growth of women's sports and some of the setbacks,
Speaker 1: if we don't acknowledge the things that happened with intention,
Speaker 1: we are ignoring the context that's required to really understand
Speaker 1: the path toward today. The pseudoscience that was used to
Speaker 1: argue that women shouldn't play while pregnant or after pregnant,
Speaker 1: The pseudoscience that said women would come back from pregnancy
Speaker 1: less than or less capable, which was not founded at
Speaker 1: all in actual medicine. All of that was used with
Speaker 1: intention to tell women that their space was at the
Speaker 1: home with their children. I mean, it was like two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, the head of the International Ski Federation
Speaker 1: said women still shouldn't do ski jumping because.
Speaker 2: Their uteruses would fall out.
Speaker 1: Two thousand and three, we're still doing that, and so
Speaker 1: when we don't acknowledge the stuff that happens with intention
Speaker 1: to hold us back. The seventy year soccer band in
Speaker 1: England and now women's soccer is doing great and people
Speaker 1: are like.
Speaker 2: Well, they finally figured it out.
Speaker 1: No, there was a seventy year band of women playing
Speaker 1: professional soccer there. You think that held them back a little?
Speaker 1: Like we got to talk about it, yeah, because otherwise
Speaker 1: we blame the product, and it's never been the product.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the All Star works ever. Ever, ever, ever,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the All Star weekend. I went to
Speaker 1: a very lovely dinner in your honor, which was beautiful.
Speaker 1: We love to see people get their flowers, even if
Speaker 1: it's a few years late. You got your flowers at
Speaker 1: the time, but we're still giving them to you. And
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you want to have a brunch to
Speaker 1: connect current WNBA players with the players of the past,
Speaker 1: and not just the big names like you, but everybody
Speaker 1: who helped bank the league what it was.
Speaker 2: Why is that so important to you?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know a lot of people look at
Speaker 4: the W when it started, and of course they remember
Speaker 4: myself and Lisa and Rebecca and Don and Coop and Tina,
Speaker 4: which rightfully so. But for me, this brunch, which by
Speaker 4: the way, I know that's time why we're talking about it,
Speaker 4: but thanks to AU a huge sponsor, was an incredible brunt.
Speaker 4: Love it, but it was so important to me last
Speaker 4: year was the first one in this year, but I
Speaker 4: want to be able to bring back former players and
Speaker 4: celebrate them and like you said, and give them their flowers,
Speaker 4: because every single player that was a part of the
Speaker 4: W when it started, they play a huge role in
Speaker 4: where we are today. And I think because of all
Speaker 4: the attention that the league is getting to day the
Speaker 4: rookie class, rightfully so. But there's a part of me
Speaker 4: that feels disrespected for those other players because you don't
Speaker 4: hear about them very much, you don't talk about them
Speaker 4: very much. The league doesn't really do anything for them.
Speaker 4: And so I want to put all of us in
Speaker 4: a room together where we can celebrate each other, where
Speaker 4: we can reminisce the good, the bad, everything in between.
Speaker 4: We can talk about the crazy hairstyles we had and
Speaker 4: you know, the outfits that we were, But I want
Speaker 4: to put us in a room where we're just being
Speaker 4: celebrated and we're talking about where we were, where the
Speaker 4: league was, where it is today, where we're going. I
Speaker 4: think it's a great time for celebration, but also trying
Speaker 4: to bridge that gap between former players and current players,
Speaker 4: because unfortunate thing is. As well as I think the
Speaker 4: league is doing right now, I think it could be
Speaker 4: in such a better place if former players were more
Speaker 4: involved with the w And there are a lot of
Speaker 4: current WNBA players who don't know the former players. If
Speaker 4: if it's not like you know the top ten and
Speaker 4: there were so many former players who were some bad asses,
Speaker 4: I can say, ass, I'll keep it there that. I
Speaker 4: feel like the players today need to get to know
Speaker 4: who these players were, the players who pave the way,
Speaker 4: who have given you the opportunity to be where you
Speaker 4: are today. And so that's that's what I want my
Speaker 4: brunch to be, and just celebrating women in general for
Speaker 4: being in this space.
Speaker 1: I think there's such mythologizing around men's sports. We hear
Speaker 1: about and know about the greats and even the not
Speaker 1: so greats that just have good stories.
Speaker 2: We don't do that in women's sports.
Speaker 1: It's something I'm trying to do on my show Good
Speaker 1: Game with Sarah Spain daily on iHeart.
Speaker 4: Podcasts And if you haven't subscribed, subscribe.
Speaker 1: Subscribe, follow, like write a review, rate five stars please.
Speaker 1: But I am trying to do that because part of
Speaker 1: what we love about sports is water cooler talk, having takes,
Speaker 1: having debates, and we can't do that if we're saying
Speaker 1: top five all time WNBA point guards and you don't
Speaker 1: know the ones that played twenty years ago. We can't
Speaker 1: have those fun mount rushmore of what. You can't do
Speaker 1: that if we don't have that context. And so the
Speaker 1: myth building is extremely important, and so is internalizing female
Speaker 1: greatness in young people, so that those athletes who maybe
Speaker 1: grew up and are now in the WNBA but instead
Speaker 1: idolized Lebron and Dirk. And you know what I always here,
Speaker 1: Elena Deeladon is the Dirknowitzkin's like, no, how about find
Speaker 1: a woman from the WNBA that was a big who
Speaker 1: could run the ball in two threes and big inside
Speaker 1: and you know that kind of stuff is so important
Speaker 1: and it's really under discussed how much that affects our
Speaker 1: view of what we're watching and how we can textualize it.
Speaker 1: So I love that you're doing that. You mentioned AU
Speaker 1: helping out with the brunch. AU actually also gave you
Speaker 1: a shot at commentating when you had been rejected. Can
Speaker 1: you talk about why that was so important?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, y'ah, if I cry, I'm gonna blame it
Speaker 4: on my back. Okay, No, you know, first of all,
Speaker 4: I just think what AU is doing. Megan, I don't
Speaker 4: like you either.
Speaker 2: I feel like Barbara Walters.
Speaker 5: No, God, jeez, I don't even know the people in
Speaker 5: the room like this for y'all to see me crying,
Speaker 5: But I just think what AU has done and what
Speaker 5: they continue to do.
Speaker 4: I'll get to myself in a second. Given women an
Speaker 4: opportunity to play in another women's professional basketball league is huge,
Speaker 4: And I know a lot of people look at AU
Speaker 4: and they're like, oh, is it the G League to
Speaker 4: the W And I'm like, absolutely not. It is another
Speaker 4: women's professional league. It's still the only other five on
Speaker 4: five women's professional basketball league here in the States. And
Speaker 4: for me to have an opportunity to be a part,
Speaker 4: the little bit that I do commentating alongside Cindy Brunson,
Speaker 4: U Basketball has always just given me a place where
Speaker 4: I don't know, in a way where I feel wanted
Speaker 4: and need it. And so when I tried this in
Speaker 4: other avenues without bringing them up, you know, on ESPN,
Speaker 4: it was kind of like, eh, no, You're not ready,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, damn, I've been retired for ten years.
Speaker 4: I don't know when I will be ready, and so
Speaker 4: I just I've always been taught that when one door closes,
Speaker 4: another one will open. And if God closes that door,
Speaker 4: it means that's not where you're supposed to be. So
Speaker 4: just be patient. And I remember the very first year
Speaker 4: of AU, when it was in Las Vegas, getting a
Speaker 4: call from Sherry Kemp whose she was in the back
Speaker 4: of the room. Don't know where Sherry just went Sherry,
Speaker 4: did you leave? Because she knew I was going to
Speaker 4: bring up her name. Well, Sherry called me because Eileen
Speaker 4: Hawser had reached out to Sherry and said, I really
Speaker 4: think Cheryl would be good doing the games. Had a
Speaker 4: conversation with her and I was just like, I absolutely
Speaker 4: would love to be a part of AU. And I
Speaker 4: think the reason why I get emotional without getting emotional
Speaker 4: right now is because sometimes you put in so much
Speaker 4: work at your craft and all the awards, all the accolades,
Speaker 4: they're great, right, that recognition is incredible, But I think
Speaker 4: there's still for me. There was still a part of
Speaker 4: me that was like, damn, like I worked my butt
Speaker 4: off and there's nowhere for me in this this space,
Speaker 4: this commentating space. And AU opened the door and said
Speaker 4: we want you, we want you to be a part
Speaker 4: of the family. And to me, that meant so much
Speaker 4: much more to me than any award I've ever won,
Speaker 4: because they saw something in me that a lot of
Speaker 4: other people didn't and gave me an opportunity to do
Speaker 4: something and be a part of something that was brand new.
Speaker 4: And I've never really been in that space. But I
Speaker 4: have to tell you the excitement I get from not
Speaker 4: only doing the games, but being around the players, being
Speaker 4: around the AU family's it's such a great group that
Speaker 4: I don't know why players who aren't going overseas, I
Speaker 4: don't know why they wouldn't be a part, wouldn't want
Speaker 4: to be a part of it. Because the competition is
Speaker 4: top notch, the players are amazing. I love the family environment,
Speaker 4: I love the community, and it's just it's a four
Speaker 4: week season for those who may not know a lot
Speaker 4: about AU. If you don't, you need to. You're in
Speaker 4: this room, you need to. And it's just such a
Speaker 4: great environment. And I've said this before and I'll say
Speaker 4: it again today. I'm so great, grateful and thankful and
Speaker 4: indebted to John and Jonathan and the AU family for
Speaker 4: giving me this opportunity, and it's one that I'm very
Speaker 4: grateful for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, for those who aren't familiar.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think should be covered
Speaker 1: more about AU is that it's a model for what
Speaker 1: we demand of other leagues that haven't gotten there yet.
Speaker 1: But they're doing it the way we always ask others
Speaker 1: to when it comes to maternity rights and values of
Speaker 1: the players being their own coaches, and you know, the
Speaker 1: vested interest that they have in the league. Like the
Speaker 1: way that they're doing it is what we wish other
Speaker 1: leagues would do. So being able to promote it better
Speaker 1: so that other leagues will take the nod and kind
Speaker 1: of start it themselves. I also think you mentioned like
Speaker 1: being able to be in one place with your family.
Speaker 1: You don't have to go overseas. Everyone can go to
Speaker 1: one place for that four weeks. It's just a great,
Speaker 1: great opportunity. It's a player led lea. Yeah, right, so
Speaker 1: the players pretty much have control over I don't want
Speaker 1: to say everything, not everything, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's it's the players' voices that they listen to
Speaker 1: and the players themselves they're they're they're helping to grow
Speaker 1: the league.
Speaker 4: They're helping to grow the game. And you know, for
Speaker 4: for players when they play in the WNBA and when
Speaker 4: the season's over, a lot of players don't don't want
Speaker 4: to have to go overseas, right, and a lot of
Speaker 4: them have to go. There are players who still choose
Speaker 4: to do it, but to be able to stay stateside.
Speaker 4: It's a four week season, Bring your family, It's great competition,
Speaker 4: they're making good money for four weeks, and it's just
Speaker 4: it's a really really great competitive league that I think
Speaker 4: more and more WNBA players are going to want to
Speaker 4: be a part of.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 1: Olympic basketball happening now. Team USA women looking for an
Speaker 1: unbelievable eighth straight gold.
Speaker 4: Let's go.
Speaker 1: It has been thirty two years, eleven six and eighty
Speaker 1: days to be exact, since they last lost an Olympic game.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Pretty decent not com what, yeah, I mean? I don't
Speaker 1: even think you can jinx them, that's how incredible they are.
Speaker 1: But let's just do it just in case. What are
Speaker 1: you watching for when you're watching those games, when you
Speaker 1: have a dominant team like that, what are you watching
Speaker 1: for to see like this could be the thing that
Speaker 1: would make them more vulnerable or this is the thing
Speaker 1: they need to be doing.
Speaker 4: Right well, I think there we are our biggest competition,
Speaker 4: right and until we get to the medal rounds, we
Speaker 4: really shouldn't be tested very much. So when I watch,
Speaker 4: it's more about what we're doing, not what the other
Speaker 4: teams are doing, and are they playing together or are
Speaker 4: they playing selfishly which has never happened. It's all about
Speaker 4: team USA. It's all about just bringing home the gold
Speaker 4: medal this year. For me, though maybe a little different
Speaker 4: because and I'm only saying this because she said it,
Speaker 4: this will be Diana's last Olympics, So I'm I just
Speaker 4: want to I want to watch her, right like, I
Speaker 4: want to see what she's getting out of these games
Speaker 4: and how well she's going to play, Because forty two
Speaker 4: years old, Diana Tarassi is still getting buckets. I don't
Speaker 4: care what everybody has to say on social media, they
Speaker 4: don't know anything, but she's still getting it. I love
Speaker 4: this team. I love the vets we have with the
Speaker 4: younger players, and it's just so exciting for me this
Speaker 4: time of year to be able to watch because it
Speaker 4: just kind of takes me back to when I played
Speaker 4: in my very first one in nineteen ninety six, and
Speaker 4: to think that we're going for our eighth straight gold medal, unbelievable.
Speaker 4: It's pretty special.
Speaker 1: I love too that Diana called it out and she said,
Speaker 1: only in women's sports would twenty years of experience be
Speaker 1: considered a negative right instead of.
Speaker 2: Something that we talk about how incredible it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because darned if we don't talk about men like
Speaker 1: Lebron who is incredible doing what he's doing at his age,
Speaker 1: And instead of doing that with Diana, we're like push
Speaker 1: her out and bring in someone else.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's absurd.
Speaker 4: That's a whole nother conversation. Agreed.
Speaker 1: You're gonna be joining the Women's sports audio network on
Speaker 1: iHeart alongside my show Good Game with Sarah Spain subscribers
Speaker 1: every day, give us a little teaser. I know you
Speaker 1: don't know yet have a launch date, and you're still
Speaker 1: working out some details, but like, what do you want
Speaker 1: to talk about? What's missing from the space, what are
Speaker 1: you excited to bring?
Speaker 4: So I think I just got my co host, but
Speaker 4: I can't announce for you. You don't want to bring
Speaker 4: any news, and I have I have three names for it.
Speaker 4: Every other name I wanted it was taken. The first
Speaker 4: one that I wanted was can I say a bad word?
Speaker 4: I close your ears? No. But the name I wanted
Speaker 4: was real shit, yeah right yes? And the yeah, it's taken.
Speaker 4: So I don't know what it is. But the idea
Speaker 4: behind my podcast is not just it's not just a
Speaker 4: sports podcast. It's about real shit and life right, things
Speaker 4: that we as women go through every day. Things that
Speaker 4: we as female athletes, everything from pregnancy to menopause to
Speaker 4: stuff that we just don't talk about. But I think women,
Speaker 4: if they had a space to talk about it, would
Speaker 4: come and talk about it. But also listening for me,
Speaker 4: listening to all these other sports podcasts this year, namely
Speaker 4: for men who think they know whatever what women want right,
Speaker 4: or think they know what women are capable of doing,
Speaker 4: I'm like, let me tell y'all what we really are
Speaker 4: capable of doing. So I'm excited about it. I have
Speaker 4: no idea when the launch date is, but yeah, y'all
Speaker 4: tune in, no, stay tuned so you can, like subscriber
Speaker 4: perfect to.
Speaker 2: Your point you just said, though about it.
Speaker 1: One of the most astounding things I heard early in
Speaker 1: the w NBA season, when the unhinged rhetoric around Caitlin
Speaker 1: and Angel and the league was happening, was a former
Speaker 1: NBA player professional athlete who said that the women of
Speaker 1: the WNBA should ease off and let Caitlin score because
Speaker 1: it'd be better for the league if she was doing well.
Speaker 1: And I thought, never has it been more clear how
Speaker 1: much men, but a professional athlete man did not understand
Speaker 1: women's sports in what universe? Would you ever think, in
Speaker 1: any sport, all the way down to kids, that you
Speaker 1: would let the opponent play better?
Speaker 2: In what universe?
Speaker 1: That was so infuriating to me, and it just reminded
Speaker 1: me how much work we have to do, because that
Speaker 1: went beyond all the other dumb shit that was said.
Speaker 1: It really went to a space of like, you don't
Speaker 1: even think what we're doing.
Speaker 2: Is sports anymore? Yeah, because that's not sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I don't know if you want to get
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: We can get to Q and A. I was trying
Speaker 2: to avoid this topic, but you brought it up, and
Speaker 2: I'm like.
Speaker 4: I'll keep it short and sweet because I have so
Speaker 4: many things to say about that. But the first thing, though,
Speaker 4: is Caitman doesn't even want that. No, Like, how disrespectful
Speaker 4: is that to her to even say, y'all don't guard her? What?
Speaker 4: So I asked the question and said, to all of
Speaker 4: the NBA guys and just all the male athletes, so
Speaker 4: when when a rookie comes into your sport do you
Speaker 4: do that? Do you say, oh, well, just give him
Speaker 4: the ball and let him go score and shoot and
Speaker 4: do all the great things that he does. No, you don't.
Speaker 4: And so then it became well, gosh, they're picking her
Speaker 4: up full court. Well yeah, yeah, duh, she shoots from
Speaker 4: my I mean, it's still it's it's a game. It's competitive.
Speaker 4: We're trying to win. I need to win. So if
Speaker 4: me having to guard Caitlyn Clark full court means we're
Speaker 4: going to get a win, then that's what I gotta do.
Speaker 4: Coaches come up with a game, you know. But Sarah,
Speaker 4: there were so many dumb things that were said to me.
Speaker 4: It was that I want to talk about everybody else,
Speaker 4: I'll talk about myself. They said that I was a racist,
Speaker 4: I was jealous, I was envious, I was a lot.
Speaker 4: I'll run out of fingers, and I said, like, not
Speaker 4: only Caitlyn, like all of these rookies. They're trying to
Speaker 4: get to where I've been, So why why? Why? Like
Speaker 4: make that make sense? My My biggest thing was, I think,
Speaker 4: what Angel Caitlyn, Kate Martin, who I am a huge
Speaker 4: fan of. I love Kate Martin. Who is? I love
Speaker 4: Kate Martin, Cambrink, Rikia Jackson, Camilla Cardoso? Who else? I'm
Speaker 4: trying to get all the romans because I'll miss one
Speaker 4: name and they'll say, well, Cheryl didn't mention this one.
Speaker 4: I think what they've done, what they continue to do
Speaker 4: for this league is incredible, without a doubt. We are
Speaker 4: at a place in a space that we've never been before.
Speaker 4: And is that because of this rookie class, particularly Angel
Speaker 4: Caitlin one hundred percent. But I also don't want us
Speaker 4: to forget about the Asia Wilson's, the Diana Tarassi's, the
Speaker 4: players that have been here that continue to do everything
Speaker 4: they can do to uplift this sport. It's been competitive,
Speaker 4: it continues to be competitive, like just let these women
Speaker 4: be great.
Speaker 3: Such amazing stuff from Cheryl.
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you noticed twice I think
Speaker 1: she apologized for crying. And I want to tell all
Speaker 1: of you how much more meaningful conversations like that are
Speaker 1: when we see the real person in there. I've been
Speaker 1: to so many conferences, I've moderated so many panels, and
Speaker 1: I don't want people to be full of talking points.
Speaker 1: I want honesty and real emotion. And Cheryl brought that.
Speaker 1: So what a legend. Okay, time to pay the bills
Speaker 1: again when we return. It's a very Olympic edition of
Speaker 1: What the Fact? All right, folks, it's time for another
Speaker 1: edition of What the Fact?
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Unless you slept through the opening ceremony and the first
Speaker 1: few days of competition, you've probably heard it mentioned that
Speaker 1: the Paris Olympics are the first ever gender balanced Olympics.
Speaker 3: But are they really?
Speaker 1: The International Olympic Committee has been using the hashtag gender
Speaker 1: Equal Olympics for these games because, for the first time ever,
Speaker 1: there are an equal number of athlete spots allocated to
Speaker 1: both men and women. We've been climbing closer to this
Speaker 1: so called moment of equilibrium for more than a century now. Ever,
Speaker 1: since twenty two women competed at the nineteen hundred Paris Olympics,
Speaker 1: making up just two point two percent of the field.
Speaker 1: But while the numbers have most certainly improved, and really
Speaker 1: really they have, that doesn't quite mean the games have
Speaker 1: achieved gender equality. Take, for example, the soccer tournaments that
Speaker 1: feature sixteen men's teams and just twelve women's. The same
Speaker 1: imbalance exists in water polo, where there are twelve of
Speaker 1: men's teams and just ten women's. And get this, sky
Speaker 1: News reported this week that the IOC has no plans
Speaker 1: to change that, at least not in soccer. In a
Speaker 1: statement to sky News, the IOC said quote raising the
Speaker 1: number of women's teams would potentially trigger requests from other
Speaker 1: teams sports, which would then have an even greater impact
Speaker 1: on the cost, complexity, size, and sustainability of the games.
Speaker 3: What the actual So.
Speaker 1: You're saying women's soccer can't have gender equality because I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe more women.
Speaker 3: Would call for gender equality.
Speaker 1: Of course, all this also ignores the fact that some athletes,
Speaker 1: like Canadian soccer player.
Speaker 3: Quinn and US runner Niki Hilts, are.
Speaker 1: Non binary and ahead of the Olympics, Quinn actually called
Speaker 1: out the IOC because their profile and the official parasite
Speaker 1: lists the wrong gender.
Speaker 3: As of this recording, it still hasn't been fixed.
Speaker 1: Off the courts and fields, women remain vastly underrepresented in
Speaker 1: coaching as well and other sports adjacent jobs. While the
Speaker 1: official numbers are still in process, it's estimated that just
Speaker 1: one in ten coaches in Paris are women. You could
Speaker 1: check out an op ed by the Women's Sports Foundations
Speaker 1: ton Net Layton and Scout Basset at USA today dot
Speaker 1: com and read a little bit more about the steps
Speaker 1: we still need to take toward real equality, especially in
Speaker 1: the Paralympics where we don't even have gender balance. So
Speaker 1: while we're most certainly pumped for the games and the
Speaker 1: increase in representation, let's make sure to call it what
Speaker 1: it is, one more step.
Speaker 2: And not the end of the journey.
Speaker 1: We always love that you're listening, but we want you
Speaker 1: to get in the game every day too. So here's
Speaker 1: our good game play the day. Watch a new Olympic sport.
Speaker 1: We get it tracked. Gymnastics, soccer, swimming. They're all so
Speaker 1: fun to cheer for, but there's so much more out there.
Speaker 1: Did you know that the final for team archery came
Speaker 1: down to a three arrow shootout and a magnifying glass
Speaker 1: to determine the winner and give South Korea their tenth
Speaker 1: straight gold in the event. Seriously, a magnifying glass. Here
Speaker 1: a few sports deep in competition that might have just
Speaker 1: as thrilling of finals in the next few days. Handball, maybe,
Speaker 1: table tennis, canoe slalom. I'm not saying I know the
Speaker 1: rules of any of those, but I will be watching
Speaker 1: and so should you. Let us know what you decide
Speaker 1: to watch. And as a reminder, if you have any
Speaker 1: questions while watching, make sure to send him to producer
Speaker 1: alex Azi.
Speaker 2: She's really hoping one.
Speaker 3: Of you can stumper.
Speaker 1: So far, she's really only struggled to answer her dad's question,
Speaker 1: which was who is Snoop Dogg and why is he there?
Speaker 1: Send her a tweet at by alex Azi al ex
Speaker 1: Aszi and remember we'd always love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Hit us up on email good game at Wondermedia network
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
Speaker 1: two two oh four fifty seventy.
Speaker 3: Okay, you've waited long enough. It's time for the big reveal.
Speaker 1: Did you guys catch the easter eggs in our first
Speaker 1: eight episodes? And did you catch that? I said we
Speaker 1: had ten episodes instead of eight because math is hard.
Speaker 1: If you didn't get the answer, this should help. You
Speaker 1: would not last an hour in the asylum where they
Speaker 1: raised me. Girl is a nightmare dressed like a daydream.
Speaker 1: You deserve prison, but you won't get time. Hi, I'm
Speaker 1: the problem.
Speaker 3: It's me baby. Let the games begin.
Speaker 1: Old habits die screaming because you know I love the
Speaker 1: players and you love the game. You play stupid games,
Speaker 1: you win stupid prizes. That's right, Taylor swift Lyrics. Several
Speaker 1: of you got it right and emailed in and Marga
Speaker 1: Sisson I hope. I said your name right is our
Speaker 1: winner picked via random number generator, and she also sent
Speaker 1: the nicest email to the three of us two so
Speaker 1: I wanted to read a little bit of it. I
Speaker 1: want to say congrats on the pod. It's amazing so far.
Speaker 1: Love the different segments and guests have been unreal. Thank
Speaker 1: you for bringing this to life and for bringing a
Speaker 1: much needed light and space to women's sports. Thank you
Speaker 1: for all that you do. I'm having the time of
Speaker 1: my life. With you in this pod Yours and Women's
Speaker 1: Sports and Taylor Swift. Marga ps for more listener name ideas.
Speaker 1: Here are some Swifty inspired ones, the anti heroes, the
Speaker 1: mirror Balls, the mad women, the lucky ones. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Marga and Margo works at the Gist and we love
Speaker 1: the Gist. That email made our day. Also thank you
Speaker 1: to Andy Wannacott for your email. Here's a little bit
Speaker 1: of Andy's clever message. It was full of te Swift references.
Speaker 1: I was recommending this show to one of my friends
Speaker 1: and I made the comment I like that Sarah Spain
Speaker 1: is a basic white millennial Chicago girlie like me, and
Speaker 1: I get all of her references, like there's been more
Speaker 1: than one Taylor Swift quote in the episodes. I look
Speaker 1: the age up later and Sarah is actually cuspy and
Speaker 1: probably considers herself gen X. But the point stands. She
Speaker 1: went on to give the Taylor Swift references from the
Speaker 1: show and said, but what if I told you none
Speaker 1: of it was accidental. I'm positive there have been more
Speaker 1: than the ones I listed, but they slipped away into
Speaker 1: a moment of time because they were never mine. Well played, Andy,
Speaker 1: so many Te Swift references.
Speaker 3: Also, thank you for assuming.
Speaker 1: That I was young when it is convenient, I am
Speaker 1: indeed an elder millennial, and when it.
Speaker 3: Is not convenient, I am indeed gen x. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review to Good Game
Speaker 1: with Sarah Spain.
Speaker 3: It's super easy. Watch so that Google commercial. It features a.
Speaker 1: Father encouraging his daughter to use AI to write American
Speaker 1: hurdler Sidney McLaughlin lavroni a fan letter rating one out
Speaker 1: of five stars, and that once just for featuring a
Speaker 1: super badass female athlete in the ad review.
Speaker 3: Who the wants a fan letter from a computer?
Speaker 1: And who wants their kid learning that replacing genuine emotion
Speaker 1: and personal care with a form letter created by a
Speaker 1: machine is the answer to literally anything in life. The
Speaker 1: kid doesn't learn to write, doesn't learn to express herself,
Speaker 1: doesn't learn to be brave in sharing her feelings and
Speaker 1: reaching out to a role model. She just learns how
Speaker 1: to tele computer to do her work for her. And honestly,
Speaker 1: even a stickler like me would rather get a handwritten
Speaker 1: fan note that.
Speaker 3: Says You're great? Why O you are?
Speaker 1: Than a perfectly spelled, grammatically correct letter from Gemini or
Speaker 1: Watson or Johnny five from Short Circuit or even the
Speaker 1: T one thousand from Terminator two. Thanks for listening, everybody,
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow when we talk to the incredibly badass
Speaker 1: US fifteen hundred meter champion Nikki Hilt's aka, our official
Speaker 1: non binary flag bearer for Team USA. Can't wait for
Speaker 1: you to listen. Good game, Cheryl, Good Game listener, Swifties,
Speaker 1: you not actual gender equal?
Speaker 3: Gender equality.
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez and
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain