Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante,
Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast
Speaker 1: in which we examine movies. Wow. Okay, so to keep going, Um,
Speaker 1: we examine movies from an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test as a jumping off point. I know what
Speaker 1: that is, okay, Jamie, I'm going to hand it off
Speaker 1: to you. Wow. We'd literally sound like we're like on
Speaker 1: PBS and we're like doing a fundraiser. Um, yeah, I will,
Speaker 1: I will gladly pick up the mantel here, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. The Betel test is media metric invented by
Speaker 1: queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test,
Speaker 1: that requires that two for our purposes are a little
Speaker 1: our little flourished, a little spin on it, our little
Speaker 1: take on it. Everyone needs a little take on it.
Speaker 1: Here's ours our version of the Bechdel test requires that
Speaker 1: two people of a marginalized gender with names by the way,
Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man
Speaker 1: for two lines of dialogue. That's our little take on it. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: most movies don't do it a lot simply don't, or
Speaker 1: or this increasing trend that drives me, you know, just
Speaker 1: into the ground like a little screw driver, is they
Speaker 1: do pass the Bechdel test, but they still hate women.
Speaker 1: Like now, it's like the whole thing where every director.
Speaker 1: I feel like most directors have some functioning knowledge of
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test at this point, except for Sofia coppola um,
Speaker 1: which is weird because her movies usually pass, but like
Speaker 1: she didn't know what it was. But now I feel
Speaker 1: like a lot of like misogynist directors do know what
Speaker 1: the Bechtel test is, make sure their movie passes it,
Speaker 1: but they're like, oh, but still, we're just gonna like
Speaker 1: brutalize every woman that's on screen. But did she ask
Speaker 1: for a like a pudding from her daughter? So it passes?
Speaker 1: Therefore a feminist film, right, hate it? Hate it? But
Speaker 1: you know who was the actor? I want to say
Speaker 1: it was Diane Lane, But before I I'm going to
Speaker 1: confirm this. Are you about to just fully canceled Diane
Speaker 1: Lane live on the show My Mom Loves Under the
Speaker 1: Tuscan Son. You've got to be careful. Oh my gosh, Wow,
Speaker 1: we should like Jill on the podcast to talk about
Speaker 1: under the Tuscan. I really can't think of someone more
Speaker 1: qualified to talk about under the Tuscan Son. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: let me just google this and then and if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: I'll cut this out and if I'm right, I'll say
Speaker 1: it is it so thing nice about Diane Lane, or
Speaker 1: so it's not? Okay, I'm right, Okay, here's what it is,
Speaker 1: Diane Lane. She accidentally called the Bechtel test the rectal test.
Speaker 1: This happened a couple of years ago. She was talking
Speaker 1: about the Bechtel test and I think generally knew what
Speaker 1: it was, but didn't know what the what the name
Speaker 1: of it was, and she called it the Rectel test.
Speaker 1: Sometimes boomers really show up for you in a way
Speaker 1: that you didn't expect. Oh, Diane, you know an effort
Speaker 1: was made, and I respect that. Oh. Knights and Road Dancey.
Speaker 1: People loved Knights and Road Danthy like she's been in
Speaker 1: every Mom movie for the past thirty years? Was that
Speaker 1: a Nicholas Sparks adaptation? It was? I know that she
Speaker 1: Fox with d gearing it. Yes, it is a Nicholas
Speaker 1: Sparks but yes, wow, Richard Gear and Diane Lane funk
Speaker 1: a lot in movies. This doesn't pass the Bechtel test well,
Speaker 1: or nor does it pass the Rectel test. So here's okay,
Speaker 1: here's what happened. Diane Lane was doing an interview with
Speaker 1: Fanity Fair. She was talking about House of Cards. She's
Speaker 1: she says, oh, but the show doesn't pass the Recteal test. Right?
Speaker 1: Am I saying that? Right? The fact that it was
Speaker 1: for House of Cards makes it ten times more cursed.
Speaker 1: On top of that, Oh my god, what she good
Speaker 1: for her? Yes? Should we talk about today's movie? Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So our guest today a returning guest,
Speaker 1: a friend of the show. He's a comedian. You remember
Speaker 1: him from our Men in Black episode. It's sam Ike back.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. So we're
Speaker 1: delighted to have you. I love Diane Lane. Oh really, wait,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite Diane Lee performance? I would go unfaithful
Speaker 1: or under the skin soun right? Yeah, Yeah, that's she's
Speaker 1: fucking Richard gear And that one. She's Richard Garan that
Speaker 1: one too. Yeah. Yeah, she's sucking a lot in that movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's fantastic in it. Um she I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's a bad there There are movies where
Speaker 1: Diane Lane is in it and it's not good. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a bad Diane Lane movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: sure I do. I feel like generally her starring vehicles
Speaker 1: are either really wholesome or like aggressively horny. Yeah. Under
Speaker 1: the Top Skin Sun is like the best mixture of
Speaker 1: Unfaithful and Knights and will Dante. It's like the It's
Speaker 1: the ben Diagram of the Like, what is it that purple?
Speaker 1: It's the it's like the Yeah, it's like the Georgia
Speaker 1: of Diane Lane. Oh my god, Okay, I feel I
Speaker 1: feel a Patreon theme coming on. It turns out there's
Speaker 1: a lot to say about Diane Lane, more than I realized.
Speaker 1: Diane December. Maybe, Yeah, what if we were like, we're
Speaker 1: not covering not Halloween like a holiday movies this year,
Speaker 1: We're covering Diane Lane movies. Hey, we're going to run
Speaker 1: out of holiday movies. Eventually, So we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: pivot to some howday hope. So, but as long as
Speaker 1: Vanessa Hudgens keeps, you know, appearing in front of a
Speaker 1: green screen, they're still gonna be holiday movies. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: holiday movies and never going away. They're never going away.
Speaker 1: That's one genre. It's like, I think it's like holiday
Speaker 1: movies and horror movies, those two are never going to
Speaker 1: go away. I'm fine with it. I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: They're always going to be mostly bad and I'm usually
Speaker 1: going to watch them. Yeah, and you really need you
Speaker 1: need just one location, you know what I mean, as
Speaker 1: long as you got a place where you can put
Speaker 1: a fucking tree and somewhere somewhere where you can like
Speaker 1: you need the woods, right, you need somewhere where you
Speaker 1: can kill someone in a remote place for a horror movie.
Speaker 1: And then you need a place where you can have
Speaker 1: a Christmas tree and you can do a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1: It's like a pretty COVID safety friendly genre. Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1: one of the best genres are cold That's like, what
Speaker 1: are real? That's so depressive. So it's like we were
Speaker 1: talking about this on the on the Patreon A couple
Speaker 1: of during December where it was some some of the
Speaker 1: like low rent holiday movies I watched this year. You
Speaker 1: can tell they were shot with COVID restrictions because they'll
Speaker 1: be like like, there will be scenes that take place
Speaker 1: adjacent to a party, but you never see the party
Speaker 1: because there's no party like and then you can hear
Speaker 1: like party dot you know, MP three kind of playing
Speaker 1: in the background, but it's just two people in a
Speaker 1: room because it's not safe to have anyone else there.
Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. Happy belated birthday, Diane Lane.
Speaker 1: She just heard this week. Oh wow, incredible Happy Birthday
Speaker 1: Diane Lane podcast. Now, so let's talk about today's actual movie,
Speaker 1: which does not start Diane Lane, doesn't It is the
Speaker 1: movie Hollywood Shuffle. Sam tell us about your relationship with
Speaker 1: this movie. UM, yeah, okay, so I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 1: came out the year I was born. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: starts Robert Townsend, who's one of my like childhood idols
Speaker 1: kena Everybody AND's co wrote it with um, another one
Speaker 1: of my childhood idols, And it is one of the
Speaker 1: to me personally, it's one of the funniest movies ever made. UM.
Speaker 1: It's sketches all linked towards this actor named Bobby Taylor
Speaker 1: and his triumphs and struggles of trying to be a
Speaker 1: black actor in Hollywood. And it's, um, it's I saw
Speaker 1: it when I was I don't know, probably in high school,
Speaker 1: and just because I like I knew I would, I
Speaker 1: loved in Living Color A Scary movie was like the
Speaker 1: funniest thing I've ever seen. At that point, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifteen or whatever, and um, and then
Speaker 1: I saw this movie and I just I've I've watched
Speaker 1: it so many times. It's definitely definitely one of the
Speaker 1: most we watched comedies for me personally. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: absolutely love it. It's it's it's just one of those
Speaker 1: movies that like every joke is just like so it's
Speaker 1: so quotable. And it's also just one of those things
Speaker 1: where it's like I didn't have that many, like all
Speaker 1: black films that were this funny, you know, there weren't
Speaker 1: that many black comedies, and this one is just like
Speaker 1: it's amazing. And it's also the other thing is like
Speaker 1: how hard it was for Robert Town's to make this
Speaker 1: movie that and and the whole point of it being
Speaker 1: so inspiring. It is one of the like I am
Speaker 1: a mostly cynical person when it comes to those things
Speaker 1: and films, but like, it is one of those films
Speaker 1: that actually did that for me. It's one of the
Speaker 1: few movies that I actually feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I hope I guess when you know, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't Was that was that too long? We can cut
Speaker 1: no more? I was beautiful. I was waiting for you
Speaker 1: guys to be like, oh, now we gotta go to
Speaker 1: an ad. Uh No, that's great. Um, Jamie, what's your
Speaker 1: relationship in history with this movie? I've never seen this
Speaker 1: movie before. I know, I knew of Robert Townsend because
Speaker 1: I used to watch reruns of The Parenthood when I
Speaker 1: was little, So that was primarily how I knew who
Speaker 1: he was was via Parenthood uh reruns. But I I
Speaker 1: didn't honestly know that much about like what his background was.
Speaker 1: And this movie is so fucking good, Like I'm disappointed
Speaker 1: in myself. I haven't seen it sooner, and it was
Speaker 1: so much fun. It's so like the story behind it
Speaker 1: was really cool, and I feel like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen this movie, you should stop the
Speaker 1: podcast and watch it now. It's on Pluto TV. You
Speaker 1: have no excuse not to watch it. I watched it
Speaker 1: on Canopy with my library card or not? Is it
Speaker 1: Canopy or Hoopla? Maybe I think it was on Hoopla.
Speaker 1: You've read a book that would that would be better
Speaker 1: than Pluto TV because it just we were talking about
Speaker 1: this off my Pluto TV is such a cursed application.
Speaker 1: What was your experience with this movie, Kaitlin. I saw
Speaker 1: it in college as a part of where I did
Speaker 1: go not once, but twice. I of course hate to
Speaker 1: bring this up, but in my undergrad education, I was
Speaker 1: taking like a film study. These are a film history class,
Speaker 1: and they were just kind of running through the whole
Speaker 1: like American film history, and this got shown, I think
Speaker 1: as a movie because we there was like a section
Speaker 1: on black exploitation films, and then I think this movie
Speaker 1: got shown to us because it was like, and here's
Speaker 1: a response to like the black exploitation movement. So I
Speaker 1: saw it then and I remember thinking it was super
Speaker 1: funny and just like really poignant. But I hadn't watched
Speaker 1: it since then, so I was excited to revisit it,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot to talk about and
Speaker 1: I'm excited there was, but there's I usually like I
Speaker 1: don't know, sometimes when there are sketches and movies, I
Speaker 1: get turned off. But it works so perfectly in this movie,
Speaker 1: Like it's so and all the sketches are so funny,
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, And it's one of those things where
Speaker 1: it's like, it's interesting now watching it because like every
Speaker 1: aspect of Hollywood Shuffle was kind of like integrated in
Speaker 1: different mediums where there wouldn't be a movie like this anymore.
Speaker 1: Like there's a podcast about these subjects. There's more sketches
Speaker 1: on YouTube of this, Like every part of it is
Speaker 1: like broken out in a different way now where Uh,
Speaker 1: It's just it's such an interesting time capsule and it's
Speaker 1: also so fascinating how much of it holds up, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and not to say there are parts of it that
Speaker 1: don't hold up there, hold on, we'll talk about them.
Speaker 1: I had to. But yeah, it was I love. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like I kind of wish I like I
Speaker 1: had watched this in film school because it literally is
Speaker 1: like a mini film history, like the funniest version of it.
Speaker 1: For sure. Should I do the recap, let's do it.
Speaker 1: We'll go from there. Okay, So we open on Bobby Taylor,
Speaker 1: who who was played by Robert Townsend, who directed, produced,
Speaker 1: and co wrote this movie. Oh to like a quadruple threat.
Speaker 1: Bobby is an actor who is practicing for an upcoming
Speaker 1: movie audition, and the role he is auditioning for is
Speaker 1: Jimmy who It's a little vague exactly who Jimmy is,
Speaker 1: but he's like a gang leader or like a pimp
Speaker 1: or something along those lines. I'm sorry, something so funny
Speaker 1: about listening to you describe that we opened. We opened
Speaker 1: on Jimmy. He made to be a pimper or dealer.
Speaker 1: He's some kind of scally wag, becomes slightly British, he's
Speaker 1: some sort of scally waging on it. I just love
Speaker 1: how you so fascinated by who is Jimmy? What is this?
Speaker 1: What is this story? Fine? Jimmy. We know that he
Speaker 1: needs revenge, That's what we know that, right, Yeah, Jimmy
Speaker 1: needs to revenge. I mean, I'm sorry, I don't need
Speaker 1: but like when we now, I kind of want to
Speaker 1: talk about Jimmy's revenge as should we wait or do
Speaker 1: we or do we get into it now? Well, because
Speaker 1: it is kind of fascinating it is. I would have
Speaker 1: liked to have seen the movie that they make within
Speaker 1: this movie, because it would have been probably the worst
Speaker 1: movie ever made, Like it would be such a mess,
Speaker 1: like Jimmy's Like the monologue that Bobby is practicing is
Speaker 1: like so just like bizarre and repetitive and like obviously
Speaker 1: extremely racist, and it's just like a mess. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the thing that I don't understand. It's called Jimmy's Revenge.
Speaker 1: Jimmy's brother dies, Jimmy is already at the scene when
Speaker 1: he dies. The guy who killed him is there, is there,
Speaker 1: so Jimmy is about to attack him. I assume that's
Speaker 1: what he's talking about the whole time. So how long
Speaker 1: is this movie? Like he doesn't he get? Like That's
Speaker 1: what I kept thinking about when when you just brought
Speaker 1: that up. I was like, wait, yeah, how long. It's
Speaker 1: Jimmy's Revenge. He's jim You know what I means, Jimmy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all right, it's happening right there, happening. It's maybe
Speaker 1: it's a short film. It's it's a it's a seven
Speaker 1: minute film. I didn't even connect that. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I should have been thinking harder about Jimmy and what
Speaker 1: it's called. That's on me because what happens after right,
Speaker 1: we know we never see so Jimmy is like not
Speaker 1: the best role, but even so, if Bobby gets this part,
Speaker 1: it will be a big break in his career. Then
Speaker 1: we meet Bobby's mom, his grandma, and his little brother.
Speaker 1: We see a commercial for a TV show about Mr
Speaker 1: Batty or something like that. It's a show where half man,
Speaker 1: half bat lives with a white suburban family. Batty boy,
Speaker 1: Batty boy, batty boy. Hey, you know you guys should
Speaker 1: do for your next Patreon You should just do Durant,
Speaker 1: just fucking just doing descriptions of sketches. Was a bat
Speaker 1: who's half man, half bat. He was living in the
Speaker 1: suburbs of Michigan. I love listen to describe all of these.
Speaker 1: This is great. Now I feel self conscious of no, no,
Speaker 1: this is this is no. You're you're you're so accurate.
Speaker 1: You're you know what I mean, You're accurate. It's clear,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's great. I'm loving what you're doing. I
Speaker 1: just never heard anybody actually describe what happens in the
Speaker 1: sketches in the Hollywood Shuffle before and it's mind blowing
Speaker 1: to me just to hear a half man, half bad.
Speaker 1: I mean that's the way he's described in the movie.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, which isn't even funnier because he's just
Speaker 1: wearing a costume from my party. That's another thing. What's
Speaker 1: the background on Battie? Like how why is that family? Like?
Speaker 1: How did he get there? Is it a fresh prince
Speaker 1: of bel Air situation where he's sent over because like
Speaker 1: like like you know, it's just it's tough for a
Speaker 1: bat in like l a, So he's gotta go. He
Speaker 1: got in one little fight and his mom got scared,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna go send you to live with this
Speaker 1: white family in Michigan. Yeah, and he's a grown man too.
Speaker 1: He's like it's not like he's growing up with the kids.
Speaker 1: You know, he's like a young it's not like a
Speaker 1: Casper situation. He's like a fully full adult. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I only bring up Batty Boy because he'll he comes
Speaker 1: back later. So you know, I have to I have
Speaker 1: to plant the seed plant to pay off with the boy.
Speaker 1: There is check offs Batty Boy. Okay. So anyway, so
Speaker 1: we see that commercial, then we see Bobby call out
Speaker 1: of work because and he's like, I have to go
Speaker 1: to the dentist, but it's really so he can go
Speaker 1: to this audition. Um. Then we see a montage of
Speaker 1: other black actors auditioning for various roles, but many of
Speaker 1: them are there for the same role that Bobby is
Speaker 1: there for. And then he talks to another actor who
Speaker 1: comments on how this role of Jimmy is like a
Speaker 1: white man's stereotype of a black man and how the
Speaker 1: only roles that Hollywood ever lets them play are slaves
Speaker 1: and butlers and things like that. Remember, it's like time
Speaker 1: to go audition, And then we cut to Bobby having
Speaker 1: kind of like a day dream fantasy thing, which which
Speaker 1: is a commercial for Black Acting School, which I think
Speaker 1: is one of the most famous scenes from this movie,
Speaker 1: where basically it's a school where white teachers teach black
Speaker 1: actors how to play criminals, gang leaders, pimps, drug dealers,
Speaker 1: all manner of roles like that. It's such a great scene.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good. And knowing that I
Speaker 1: didn't know that like Robert Townsend was like a second
Speaker 1: city guy, and knowing that made it an even better
Speaker 1: viewing experience. Oh my god, And I love the audition
Speaker 1: scenes were you've seen all those different actors coming in
Speaker 1: and when that one, that one like scholarly actor goes
Speaker 1: in and then that like you're the worst actor. He's like,
Speaker 1: I could try in an iamic. They would have the
Speaker 1: actual gang memories and any pulls out that. I was
Speaker 1: like like, this is this is it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: such a great sequence. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to talk all about that because there's like a
Speaker 1: lot of really good commentary in that montage that we'll discuss. Um.
Speaker 1: So then Bobby goes to work at the hot dog
Speaker 1: stand where he works, and the actor who plays Battie
Speaker 1: boy A shows up and Bobby is like hey and
Speaker 1: like a gigantic limousine, and Bobby asks him about acting
Speaker 1: and how can you tell if a script is good,
Speaker 1: and Batty boys like, well, if your character doesn't die,
Speaker 1: then it's a good script. And we're like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: the bar is low. Um. Then we see we see
Speaker 1: seen where Bobby has been playing basketball with his friends,
Speaker 1: and then they talk about how there needs to be
Speaker 1: more black film critics, and then we cut to another
Speaker 1: kind of fantasy day dream of Bobby's about these two
Speaker 1: black guys who sneak into movies and then review them.
Speaker 1: And then we see knockoff versions of Amadeus, Indiana Jones,
Speaker 1: Dirty Harry, and then a zombie movie. Then Bobby gets
Speaker 1: a call from his agent saying that the casting directors
Speaker 1: at the audition really liked him and that he has
Speaker 1: gotten a callback, but they're looking for an Eddie Murphy type.
Speaker 1: So then we get another dream sequence where Bobby's at
Speaker 1: his callback saying that he doesn't want to be Eddie Murphy,
Speaker 1: he just wants to be himself, but then he can't
Speaker 1: help but to do an Eddie Murphy impression. And then
Speaker 1: this is the same year that Robert Townsend directs Raw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so good, are you reading this? I wrote this down
Speaker 1: and yes, I'm reading it, okay. I was just thinking.
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit. It was like I was like,
Speaker 1: did you you just be watched this like yesterday? Like
Speaker 1: you recite this whole thing, Sam, I write it down
Speaker 1: otherwise I will forget everything. Um. Yeah, I read that
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy saw Hollywood Shuffle and like demanded that Robert
Speaker 1: Townsend direct his stand up special. That's the best. Like
Speaker 1: and then I didn't know that I don't know, I
Speaker 1: just like did a deep dive on Robert Townson last
Speaker 1: night because I'm like, I just know as the guy
Speaker 1: from the Parenthood um where like when he was like
Speaker 1: in his early twenties, he was like passed over for
Speaker 1: a sn L in favor of Eddie Murphy. He just
Speaker 1: like Eddie Murphy was like haunting his life and then
Speaker 1: they became friends. I love that man. Um. Okay, So
Speaker 1: then we see Bobby quit his job at the hot
Speaker 1: dog stand, banking on making it as an actor, and
Speaker 1: then he visits his uncle at a barbershop and he's
Speaker 1: he expresses some concerns about what if he's not good enough?
Speaker 1: What if I don't make it as an actor. He
Speaker 1: goes to his call back and nails it and he
Speaker 1: gets the part, and he celebrates with his girlfriend. I
Speaker 1: think Lydia. Yeah, we're supposed to think she's an important
Speaker 1: character because she's on the poster for the movie, but
Speaker 1: but I can't name one thing about her other than
Speaker 1: she certainly is a girlfriend. Yes, they watch a detective
Speaker 1: movie with his grandmother who comes in and sits between them,
Speaker 1: and then we get a sequence of this detective movie
Speaker 1: that they're watching where Robert Townsend plays like a film
Speaker 1: noir detective solving a murder. Then he's about to go
Speaker 1: in for his first day of shooting this movie, Jimmy's Revenge,
Speaker 1: which again is a seven minute short film We've decided,
Speaker 1: and he reads this note from his little brother about
Speaker 1: how his brother really looks up to Bobby, and then
Speaker 1: Bobby overhears his grandma talking about how she doesn't want
Speaker 1: him adding to the negative portrayals of black people in movies,
Speaker 1: and she thinks he should get a job at the
Speaker 1: post office. Then he shows up to set and he
Speaker 1: hears that the n double a CP is going to
Speaker 1: pick it the movie because of its racist stereotyp types.
Speaker 1: So then we see another dream sequence where he's being
Speaker 1: picketed and then his grandma and his little brother and
Speaker 1: his girlfriend disown him and then they kill him. If
Speaker 1: you print that, the kid is so cute, Yes, where
Speaker 1: are they now? The character's name, I forget his little
Speaker 1: brother's Stevie, right, Stevie. Stevie is so cute and funny,
Speaker 1: A plus child actor truly, So then we're back in reality.
Speaker 1: He shoots a scene from the movie, but his character
Speaker 1: is just so reductive and the direction he's getting from
Speaker 1: the white filmmakers is very racist, and his grandma and
Speaker 1: little brother are so disappointed in him, and he's disappointed
Speaker 1: in himself. So Bobby quits and walks off the set.
Speaker 1: Then there's another dream sequence where he's imagining himself in
Speaker 1: all of these awesome movie roles, and then he imagines
Speaker 1: himself winning an oscar, and then the movie ends with
Speaker 1: him doing a commercial for the post office saying, you know,
Speaker 1: if you can't take pride in your work, you can
Speaker 1: always get a job at the post office. And that's
Speaker 1: how the movie ends, except for that song at the end,
Speaker 1: the song and the right. Then there's a fun like
Speaker 1: moral of the story song over the credits, and then
Speaker 1: the movie ends, and before that there's the Hollywood that
Speaker 1: that credit sequence, they had that song one in a
Speaker 1: million and it's so good. I love that. I love
Speaker 1: that song. And they play at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: movie too. It's oh, it's delightful. Yeah, it's a great
Speaker 1: soundtrack to bookend a movie. So that's the story. Let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss.
Speaker 1: And we're back initial all right, and we're gonna take
Speaker 1: a quick quick commercial break. I always want to always
Speaker 1: want to say that, Well I'll cut, I'll splice that
Speaker 1: audio the next time we haven't No I'm doing it,
Speaker 1: won't it won it won't feel organic, it will we
Speaker 1: won't feel right. Okay, Well we'll figure we'll figure out
Speaker 1: a way to make this work. I just want to
Speaker 1: earn it. I want to I want to have that
Speaker 1: ability to just be like in the middle of this podcast,
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, I think that's a good time for
Speaker 1: a break. Well, we'll leave this up to you, Sam,
Speaker 1: So you better not screw it up. Oh man, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna forget so quickly. It's gonna be like that four
Speaker 1: or five thing again. Okay, Well, now that we are
Speaker 1: back thanks to Sam taking the lead. Um So, I
Speaker 1: mean this movie is just like it's one big string
Speaker 1: of commentary on the way black people are represented in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Like that's very clearly the agenda of this movie, and
Speaker 1: that is very clearly what's coming across. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: kind of just made a list of the different things
Speaker 1: that we get commentary on. Um So, basically, you guys
Speaker 1: bought like Google sheets and ship this is I'm telling you, Sam,
Speaker 1: we write things down simply you guys got mad notes,
Speaker 1: you bought mad notes. This is y'all real for real.
Speaker 1: This is like no lie, this is like wow. Well yet,
Speaker 1: so there's effective commentary on, obviously, the roles that tend
Speaker 1: to be only available to black actors, such an especially
Speaker 1: so this movie came out, this is more true then
Speaker 1: than it is now. But a lot of these things
Speaker 1: that get commented on are still current problems in Hollywood
Speaker 1: thirty years later. So the rules that tend to only
Speaker 1: be available for black actors, such as playing slaves, pimps,
Speaker 1: gang leaders, drug dealers, any kind of criminal really, and
Speaker 1: just commentary on how damaging that is too black people.
Speaker 1: There's commentary on the expectation of white filmmakers for black
Speaker 1: actors to like act more black quote unquote, or to
Speaker 1: mimic an existing bankable movie star who was black, rather
Speaker 1: than like, let black act there's just like be themselves
Speaker 1: or like figure out their own brand. And there's all
Speaker 1: that mentioned of Eddie Murphy, of course, and how like
Speaker 1: they just reference black actors who have already tested well
Speaker 1: with white audiences and they don't want to stray outside
Speaker 1: of the black actors that they know test well with
Speaker 1: white audiences, and then as far as like, when black
Speaker 1: women are auditioning for these parts, it's like they're always
Speaker 1: about to be murdered or assaulted, Like there's not even
Speaker 1: there's it's it's even worse. There's commentary on light skinned
Speaker 1: black actors. We see two light skinned black guys at
Speaker 1: this audition at the beginning of the movie. One of
Speaker 1: them is saying, how like white casting directors were telling
Speaker 1: him that he wasn't black enough for the part. The
Speaker 1: other one is saying, how like they weren't sure if
Speaker 1: he was black or not, And then he says, how
Speaker 1: he uses sunten lotion now and I wasn't. Was the
Speaker 1: implication that he was like intentionally trying to keep himself
Speaker 1: as light as possible so that he could pass as
Speaker 1: white and then therefore get more roles. Was that what
Speaker 1: was happening there? I think the I think he was
Speaker 1: trying to say he was trying to come off as
Speaker 1: like like dark skinn Italian or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got it. I think that's what it was said.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't fucking bring notes talk like
Speaker 1: where are you like? Yo? I I did not bring
Speaker 1: notes and I feel bad. Don't worry. Oh, my god, no,
Speaker 1: I liked. I mean it was the colorism came up
Speaker 1: a bunch throughout this movie. It comes up in the
Speaker 1: in the Black Acting school sketch as well, Like it
Speaker 1: comes up all the time. And we we were, I
Speaker 1: don't know, we were just talking about colorism in our
Speaker 1: Selena up said a couple of weeks ago. And this
Speaker 1: is a movie that literally lays out all of those
Speaker 1: talking points in the funniest way possible. It also overlaps
Speaker 1: with like how Latin X actors are stereotyped because they
Speaker 1: like end up casting I think in Jimmy's Revenge they
Speaker 1: end up casting light skinned black actors to play Latin
Speaker 1: X roles and like it just becomes a just a
Speaker 1: big racist mess, like it's and it's all like laid
Speaker 1: out for you in I don't know. I had to
Speaker 1: like rewind a couple of times because I was like
Speaker 1: laughing because it's funny, and then I was like, wait
Speaker 1: a second, they just said something really really important, and
Speaker 1: then I had to like do a do an intellectual
Speaker 1: watch after after Yeah, it's the kind of thing of
Speaker 1: it's just like any minority would do, you know. And
Speaker 1: that was and that's like that's something that it's still
Speaker 1: didn't change at all really in the nineties. You know,
Speaker 1: it was um in Black Acting school like one of
Speaker 1: the things that always like strikes me one of the
Speaker 1: things that's like always so funny with the black acting schools,
Speaker 1: just like when they have the white actors show the
Speaker 1: black actors like how to walk and stuff. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's just it's just my it's it's one
Speaker 1: of those things that it's like I'm watching this movie
Speaker 1: and I think about like what it is now thirty
Speaker 1: years later, and it's like that's like the equivalent of
Speaker 1: like when white people are like, oh yeah, you talk
Speaker 1: white like, you know, Like it's that same kind of
Speaker 1: it's that same kind of thing. Yeah, And like you
Speaker 1: see Bobby like in a bunch of different scenes having
Speaker 1: to code switch from just like the way he normally
Speaker 1: talks to the way the white filmmakers want him to
Speaker 1: talk when he's like acting in the audition or like
Speaker 1: on set, because they want him to be more of
Speaker 1: what they think a black person is and how they
Speaker 1: think a black person talks. And there's a been a
Speaker 1: line in the end credit song where one of the
Speaker 1: white filmmakers says that he learned about black people from TV,
Speaker 1: and he's sort of using that as like his defense
Speaker 1: and his excuse. But those racist portrayals influenced his racist portrayals,
Speaker 1: so you know, you just get this like never ending
Speaker 1: cycle of negative representation in media because rich white people
Speaker 1: are making all of the decisions. Oh and and just
Speaker 1: the idea of Jimmy himself, like the character of Jimmy,
Speaker 1: like this this podcast is mostly gonna be about Jimmy's revenge.
Speaker 1: We should just title this Jimmy. Uh. But like Jimmy's Revenge.
Speaker 1: It's like he he brings to it in the audition
Speaker 1: such a ridiculous like stereotype because he knows that's what
Speaker 1: would appease them, because like Jimmy in and of itself,
Speaker 1: if you just like me, it's like, oh, yeah, this
Speaker 1: could have been like a tough guy, but they like
Speaker 1: purposely want this like foolish, you know, buffoon, And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a part that's like always got to me, definitely.
Speaker 1: And there's commentary in this movie as well on black
Speaker 1: actors resenting these like racist stereotypical roles that they are
Speaker 1: presented with and not wanting to play them, but having
Speaker 1: to do it anyway because they need work, they need
Speaker 1: to be able to support themselves, and those are the
Speaker 1: only roles available to them, so they can't turn them down,
Speaker 1: even though they're so regressive and reductive. Like that actor
Speaker 1: who was like who keeps going to Bobby and being like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe that someone would do this part, and
Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm going and then he takes it
Speaker 1: because right, yeah, And I like, doesn't he it's him
Speaker 1: who comes back at the end, right, and he goes
Speaker 1: that he's just like clearly resentful that Bobby has gotten
Speaker 1: the part, but trying to like high grounded, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have taken on such
Speaker 1: an offensive role, but you know, but he's there in
Speaker 1: the same movie doing a smaller role, which which to
Speaker 1: me is like the equivalent of like people like commenting
Speaker 1: on a tweet, you know what I mean. It's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I have this moral superiority, but yet I'm going to
Speaker 1: engage in like the same behavior, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's real blue check behavior. He's just playing there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that the way that this movie kind of
Speaker 1: lays out just the predicament that Bobby and all of
Speaker 1: these black actors are in is like even with how
Speaker 1: they're received by the black community, Like it's like you
Speaker 1: just can't win because it's like, Okay, if you want
Speaker 1: to be an actor, there are only these offensive roles available.
Speaker 1: So the option is to either quit what you're passionate
Speaker 1: about or play the game. And then now like your
Speaker 1: grandma doesn't respect you and like that like that is
Speaker 1: so I don't know, like I've never seen that laid
Speaker 1: out so well, yeah, I I completely agree, but I
Speaker 1: think you're also forgetting about the third option, which is
Speaker 1: to be the best actor in a post office commercial.
Speaker 1: And that's always like the third option is you can
Speaker 1: be flow the progressive lady of the US Postal Service,
Speaker 1: and if you could, if you could get that, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of the best of both worlds. So like,
Speaker 1: let's always remember the third option. It's always on the table. Yes,
Speaker 1: that is that is the hero's journey here. I like
Speaker 1: to think that's the only commercial you ever does too,
Speaker 1: and it just makes bank, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like the residuals had to have been
Speaker 1: sweet on that and it was timeless. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: dated looking commercial. Anytime I hear about people being in commercials,
Speaker 1: I'm like, holy ship, Like it's ridiculous money. I hope
Speaker 1: that he bought a house with his postal service commercial. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know how federally funded the United States Post
Speaker 1: Office is just paying millions of dollars to advertise all
Speaker 1: the time. Hey sent any mail lately. I love it.
Speaker 1: People need stamps and they don't know where to go.
Speaker 1: This is a this is a great time for that.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for stamps in your town hall, but
Speaker 1: you don't know where to go in the middle of
Speaker 1: your place of business, you can always go to the
Speaker 1: post office. Well, Sam a ringing endorsement of the United
Speaker 1: States post you can cut that. You're gonna cut. No,
Speaker 1: I'm keeping you. I'm cutting it. Also, the post Office
Speaker 1: is having a bit of a moment right now, so
Speaker 1: people about the post Office. I've seen people in post
Speaker 1: office crop tops. I'm like, what is going on? I
Speaker 1: bought so much post office merch pre election. It was,
Speaker 1: but I want to talk about I think like the
Speaker 1: real third option here, which is to do what Robert
Speaker 1: Townsend did, which is he like wrote this movie, co
Speaker 1: wrote this movie, directed it, produced it, funded it himself.
Speaker 1: It only had a one dollar budget. The movie made
Speaker 1: five million at the box office, which you know isn't
Speaker 1: a lot of money, but comparatively for the small budget
Speaker 1: it was on, it was like considered a big success,
Speaker 1: and then he got an amazing career out of it.
Speaker 1: He was like directing Eddie Murphy Specials by the end
Speaker 1: of that calendar year. Like that's so, it's yeah, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to I found an article Vanity Fair. Yes.
Speaker 1: I love when we find the same both finding the
Speaker 1: one article that, yeah, your note You guys take so
Speaker 1: many notes that your notes come together, like that's your
Speaker 1: notes a symbiotic. It's like venom and Tom Hardy. Wow.
Speaker 1: I was not expecting you to use that reference me either.
Speaker 1: You think you think you think I came in were
Speaker 1: with notes? Non man, I'm I'm straight up improvn And
Speaker 1: that's the best I could come up with a venom reference. Incredible.
Speaker 1: I did not pre plan of a venom reference. That's
Speaker 1: the new Like that's like the new Yin and Yang.
Speaker 1: It's just oh, we have fun. But yeah, that that
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair pieces great. Yes, says I wanted to read
Speaker 1: a little bit from it, just to give a little
Speaker 1: bit of background on Robert Townsend and sort of like
Speaker 1: how this movie came together. So the article is entitled
Speaker 1: thirty years later, the searing critiques of Hollywood Shuffle still sting.
Speaker 1: H quote Townsend was in experience. He didn't go to
Speaker 1: film school and hadn't directed a short film, so he
Speaker 1: had not directed Um Jimmy's Revenge before UM, but he's
Speaker 1: still snuck it in there. It's like, mank uh. He
Speaker 1: didn't go to film school and hadn't directed a short film,
Speaker 1: but determined to tell a story about being marginalized by
Speaker 1: the industry. In four he had a small role in
Speaker 1: the Oscar nominated a Soldiers Story. I told my agent,
Speaker 1: I want to do more movies like this, Townsend tells
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair. My agent was like, Robert, they only do
Speaker 1: one black movie a year. You just did it. Be happy.
Speaker 1: But Townsend wasn't happy. So he talked to a friend, Waynes,
Speaker 1: whom he met at the Improv in New York. I
Speaker 1: thought my dream of being an artist was dying because
Speaker 1: at the time the only roles Keenan and I were
Speaker 1: auditioning for were slaves and pimps and stereotypes of basketball
Speaker 1: players who couldn't read towns and said it was all
Speaker 1: the negative stuff. And then Keenan and I started talking,
Speaker 1: and I was like, we should do a movie about
Speaker 1: our lives. That's how it started. And then they wrote
Speaker 1: the script together without any studio backing, though Townsend was
Speaker 1: faced with financing the film on his own. Uh he says, quote,
Speaker 1: the idea of somebody writing, directing, and producing and starring
Speaker 1: in a movie, especially a person of color, wasn't heard of.
Speaker 1: Everybody said the bar was so high you couldn't get
Speaker 1: in if you didn't have millions and millions of dollars.
Speaker 1: And then he eventually raised a hundred thousand dollars to
Speaker 1: make Shuffle, using money he earned from acting gigs as
Speaker 1: well as credit cards and quote, so the rest is hi, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love this story of how this movie was made.
Speaker 1: And then it actually, I mean it's it is kind
Speaker 1: of like that thing that we talked about on the
Speaker 1: show pretty frequently, is Hollywood refusing to make a movie
Speaker 1: that audiences clearly want to see because once it is made,
Speaker 1: like against all odds, it does super well, and like
Speaker 1: this made back its budget fifty times, like it launched
Speaker 1: the career of a few different people, and like it
Speaker 1: it's always so frustrating, like when you're like why why
Speaker 1: wouldn't you just make a movie with a black autour,
Speaker 1: Like why why? And it's that like van Go thing
Speaker 1: of like, you know, Townsend never really got the credit
Speaker 1: for this movie, and yet it's like it's such a
Speaker 1: cornerstone of like so much that comes after it, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's it's really amazing thinking of like
Speaker 1: how much stuff has been made and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is this seems like a thing from Hollywood Shuffle,
Speaker 1: and how many careers were made from it. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's really like amazing. Then when you look at Townsend's
Speaker 1: career after this movie, it's like he for the most part,
Speaker 1: doesn't make he doesn't make a movie like anything that
Speaker 1: he actually lampooned in Hollywood Shuffle. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the most amazing things about his career is like he
Speaker 1: kind of stuck to for better for worse. He's stuck
Speaker 1: to the Hollywood Shuffle like he you know, he makes
Speaker 1: like a bio film, he makes a family sitcom, a
Speaker 1: black superhero movie. You know. It's it's like it's kind
Speaker 1: of like it's kind of remarkable that he actually like
Speaker 1: still stuck to those principles. I guess, yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: man of integrity. I love. I'm like, oh, he's great. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then and and I guess just going off as
Speaker 1: as amazing as it is that he was able to
Speaker 1: make this movie the way he was, it is like
Speaker 1: it's both inspiring and kind of like it's because we've
Speaker 1: heard this story of like marginalized filmmakers having to like
Speaker 1: jump through all sorts of hoops financially and production wise
Speaker 1: in order to get their first movie made. And then
Speaker 1: you hear other stories of like Wes Anderson was just
Speaker 1: handed ten million dollars. I couldn't even write on paper,
Speaker 1: and they said this boy, I like, I like the
Speaker 1: cut of his jib, and he seems like he'll come up,
Speaker 1: he'll come up with something. And meanwhile there's like these
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like whatever, that's no shade os Anderson.
Speaker 1: He figured it out eventually, but like, you know, it
Speaker 1: just just the disparity and like who is handed money
Speaker 1: even though they're not even qualified and like amazing artists
Speaker 1: with like a really clear perspective, like Robert Townsend and
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking of like Jeff Barnaby, like his story
Speaker 1: of making rhymes for young girls or a woman walks
Speaker 1: home alone at night. I got the title wrong, but
Speaker 1: like all of these like really amazing movies with the
Speaker 1: are just different, like the the climb to get it
Speaker 1: released and like made the way the director wants is
Speaker 1: so steep, and meanwhile we're just handing west Understand a
Speaker 1: blank check and being like you'll figure it out, twenty
Speaker 1: two year old, like good luck. It's infuriating. There's even
Speaker 1: some commentary similar to that in Hollywood Shuffle where there's
Speaker 1: a scene where towards the end, Bobby is like observing
Speaker 1: white actors in the studio that he's in. Basically it's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, white actors are given the freedom to
Speaker 1: take on roles that aren't these racist stereotypes obviously, like
Speaker 1: they can audition for a wider scope of parts. And
Speaker 1: because you see him watching like two white actors rehearse
Speaker 1: the scene where they're like professing their love for each other,
Speaker 1: and then he sees another white action star who's like
Speaker 1: making demands of the script, and then like the white
Speaker 1: producers are like acquiescing to his demands for the most part.
Speaker 1: So hey, I was just thinking, Man, I would love
Speaker 1: to see Wes Anderson direct a remake of Hollywood Shuffle.
Speaker 1: That would be so amazing. All the parts would be
Speaker 1: played by Ralph Fines and fucking perfectly symmetrical. Reimagine everyone's
Speaker 1: the same movie and it was all black actors, but
Speaker 1: they were all wearing both ties, like same cast, and
Speaker 1: then there's just like so much headroom above every the
Speaker 1: actors and every shot. Oh my god, I like, I
Speaker 1: know that Wes Anderson is a competent filmmaker. I just
Speaker 1: get exhausted even thinking about watching one of his movies.
Speaker 1: It's just there's just too much. It's too much. I
Speaker 1: like Moonrise Kingdom a lot. I like that one. I
Speaker 1: still seen that. I like that one a lot. I
Speaker 1: didn't see the I didn't see the dog one. Oh
Speaker 1: I love dogs. I did not like I love dogs
Speaker 1: really at all, like that one. I think it's funny
Speaker 1: that it's called I Love Dogs. It took me forever
Speaker 1: to figure out that it's just called I Love Dogs.
Speaker 1: Oh me too, I didn't know Marley and Me was
Speaker 1: was about a dog. Oh yeah, isn't that dog dog dies?
Speaker 1: I thought spoilers Marley. I thought it was like a
Speaker 1: Julia and Julia thing with Bob Marley, Like, wow, Sam,
Speaker 1: you have to write that script just a Adam, just
Speaker 1: just being like, I love Weed. The exact same set
Speaker 1: up is Julian exact same movie. Hey Sam, this would
Speaker 1: be a really interesting time to take an ad break,
Speaker 1: just in case. Hey guys, you know what, this conversation
Speaker 1: is great, but you know it's even better what ads
Speaker 1: we should take. We're gonna take a quick commercial break
Speaker 1: and movie right back, folks. Incredible, it is this going? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm having an absolute ball. I just feel
Speaker 1: like I just I just feel like your listeners are
Speaker 1: gonna be like, what the what the hell? They let
Speaker 1: the guy do the ads now? Only only for you.
Speaker 1: We we make the exception for you and you alone, Sam.
Speaker 1: Only only friends can tossed a brick. Also, well, I'm
Speaker 1: surprised we have not brought this up yet, but the
Speaker 1: episode that we did with you a few years ago
Speaker 1: now was a live episode that we recorded in Boston,
Speaker 1: And because it was in Boston, Jamie's mom was there,
Speaker 1: and Jamie's mom that fateful meeting. For anyone who remembers
Speaker 1: this on the Men in Black episode was aggressively hitting
Speaker 1: on Sam during the show loudly. It was sparks were
Speaker 1: flying in the middle of our podcast. Also the room
Speaker 1: that that was like the the smaller theater at Improv Boston.
Speaker 1: Like you can't overstate how physically close the audience is
Speaker 1: to you. Like so my mom could have just reached
Speaker 1: out and like held your hands. Yes, yes, it should
Speaker 1: have happened, honestly, I mean it's still can't It's still
Speaker 1: what's stopping you. It's never too late, honestly, no doubt.
Speaker 1: Like I added your mom on Facebook, immediately act and
Speaker 1: show it's still it's not It's not too late. My mom,
Speaker 1: just bring over a Diane Lane DVD. Is Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got that. I got that Diane Lane DVD. Uh Candle
Speaker 1: what oh was it an Taylor and Aunt Taylor Candle.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to bring. Yeah, she'll she will
Speaker 1: be disarmed, she won't know what She'll be like, I've
Speaker 1: only ever seen this in a Diane Lane movie before.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it's happening. I mean, honestly, for me,
Speaker 1: all I mean, you know, like you know, all joking aside.
Speaker 1: I just I really think your Mom's like just just
Speaker 1: just a great just a great woman. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing how she just raised such a
Speaker 1: loving and caring family. And uh, you know, and if
Speaker 1: she's listening, like you know, my damn's are open, Jill,
Speaker 1: you hear that, Jill, M this man, don't blow this.
Speaker 1: I'm very attached to the idea of Sam becoming my dad,
Speaker 1: so it would be huge for me. So am I?
Speaker 1: So am I. Well, here's okay, here's where I would
Speaker 1: like to get into some of the more criticism of
Speaker 1: this movie, because while there is a lot of very
Speaker 1: effective commentary in the movie, there are some parts that, um,
Speaker 1: just the movie kind of fails to touch on. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I'm talking mostly about how black women are largely
Speaker 1: left out of this commentary. Yeah, black women are not
Speaker 1: entirely absent, because there are different moments where some of
Speaker 1: the black actors who are women are talking about how
Speaker 1: they are usually only cast in like sex worker roles
Speaker 1: or or just straight up murder victim roles. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that. Yeah. One of the things that stuck
Speaker 1: out to me was like, I feel like we're led
Speaker 1: to believe that women are more involved in this movie
Speaker 1: than they are. Like the marketing of this movie. Um
Speaker 1: Anne Marie Johnson who plays uh Bobby's girlfriend Lydia, like
Speaker 1: she's on the poster and then you're like, oh, so
Speaker 1: this is like she's going to be involved, but she's
Speaker 1: kind of she we don't. I mean, I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: you a thing about this character that isn't She's Bobby's girlfriend.
Speaker 1: There's friend, here's girlfriend, which sucks because it's like the
Speaker 1: performances really know there's I didn't mean to cut you
Speaker 1: off with that. That's like Ron Berman. No, that was
Speaker 1: me quoting ourselves on this very podcast for a long
Speaker 1: running joke, which you'd know if you'd ever listen, sam Well,
Speaker 1: I I listened. I listened every episode. I get ten
Speaker 1: mints in. I'm like, no Ron Perlman reference. I do
Speaker 1: that with every single podcast. That's why that's why I
Speaker 1: didn't get in into Cereal. I'm getting really into the
Speaker 1: Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast series. We talked about
Speaker 1: it on the past episode, but I just kind of
Speaker 1: kept watching it. But yeah, like Emery Johnson, who like
Speaker 1: goes on to have like a pretty great career, she
Speaker 1: was like on in Living Color, that's where I realized
Speaker 1: that I recognized her from in the middle of watching
Speaker 1: this movie. Um, but it's there's so many opportunities for
Speaker 1: Lydia in this movie that I feel like you're all
Speaker 1: kind of dropped in and we mostly see her in
Speaker 1: like either she's being supportive towards Bobby, which is great,
Speaker 1: but like that's kind of it. Or you see her
Speaker 1: in like a fantasy that Bobby is having about her,
Speaker 1: not fantasy, like a nightmare sequence where she all of
Speaker 1: a sudden isn't supportive of him. But that is really
Speaker 1: the only two modes we see her, and it's like
Speaker 1: supporting my boyfriend or not supporting my boyfriend. You know
Speaker 1: where she works. That's it. That's it. And I mean,
Speaker 1: not only could we just have seen more of her,
Speaker 1: there was just there's just so much room for commentary
Speaker 1: on the way black women are represented in Hollywood, and
Speaker 1: they're just really isn't much in the way of that
Speaker 1: commentary at all. There's another moment where in the audition
Speaker 1: scene towards the beginning of the movie, there are two
Speaker 1: women who were talking to each other about one of
Speaker 1: them had been invited over to a movie director's house
Speaker 1: at midnight, and instead of there being any kind of
Speaker 1: commentary on how women and particularly women of color are
Speaker 1: exploited by powerful people in the entertainment industry, instead of that,
Speaker 1: a joke has made about how the woman was like,
Speaker 1: of course I went to his house and I was
Speaker 1: one minute early. T he so just like there were
Speaker 1: opportunities feminists, all right. I was rewatching this movie this
Speaker 1: morning and I was like, Yo, that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: Bechdel cast. Note. I was like, yeah, they're going to
Speaker 1: mention down the Beachdel cast. Were you right? It's true
Speaker 1: that because it's like there was like a moment in
Speaker 1: the movie where like Robert Townsend is beyond qualified to
Speaker 1: be making all of these like he's making a ton
Speaker 1: of amazing points in the same scene. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like they're kind of a misogynist joke that like
Speaker 1: implies that like, oh, you know, these actors, you know
Speaker 1: they get it, they don't they don't mind having to
Speaker 1: like have sex with these nasty directors in order to
Speaker 1: get work. And that was and then the only other
Speaker 1: woman you see preparing and that sequence is flailing around
Speaker 1: because she's going to be a murder victim. Um so yeah,
Speaker 1: just most of the meaningful commentary in this movie about
Speaker 1: black representation in Hollywood is about black men specifically, and
Speaker 1: again in this movie, black women are largely left out
Speaker 1: of the conversation, which is because they are like, as
Speaker 1: we were kind of talking about, it's like the struggles
Speaker 1: that black women face in the industry are compounded with
Speaker 1: misogyny on top of everything. So there's yeah, I was,
Speaker 1: and I think like another thing that makes it always
Speaker 1: like so tough, as like in in this film, there's
Speaker 1: also this like idea in the in this time period
Speaker 1: where a black woman's like the best thing she could
Speaker 1: be was a great mom or a great grandma, you know,
Speaker 1: and a lot of those movies and in those films,
Speaker 1: and it's like and that was like, that's like one
Speaker 1: of those things was like, it was like the importance
Speaker 1: of black motherhood is shown, like is very important in
Speaker 1: a lot of things that that Robert Townsen does, and
Speaker 1: it's and it's also seen in this movie. But it
Speaker 1: was the it's the fact that there's nothing beyond that,
Speaker 1: you know, which is always like, which is the disappointing factor. Definitely,
Speaker 1: I almost wish I was I wish that his girlfriend
Speaker 1: was like also an actor or something like, she could
Speaker 1: have been like included in the story that way where
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, here's a person we already know played
Speaker 1: by an amazing comic actress. And and then like you know,
Speaker 1: ask literally and Marie Johnson. When you're writing this movie Getty,
Speaker 1: it's always that thing of just like, oh, if you
Speaker 1: don't you know, fully know what are the specific struggles
Speaker 1: that black female actors face, just ask your friend, Like,
Speaker 1: she's right there for it. She's literally right there, she's
Speaker 1: on she's hanging out on the poster of your movie. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's a great like if if she had
Speaker 1: also been like a struggling actor auditioning four roles that
Speaker 1: were largely racist stereotypes, like that could have opened up
Speaker 1: all those opportunities for much needed commentary on that very topic.
Speaker 1: But it would have just like made their relationship a
Speaker 1: little more interesting too, because all we know is like
Speaker 1: they're dating, they love they love each other, which is
Speaker 1: like great, but like they would be cool if they
Speaker 1: had like that, like they bonded over this like shared
Speaker 1: frustration and struggle as well. Yeah, I just wish that
Speaker 1: there was more of Emory Johnson in this movie. Because
Speaker 1: in the middle I was like, wait a second, she's
Speaker 1: like super fucking talented. I wish she was more. I did,
Speaker 1: like I guess that, yeah, the mother figures the mother,
Speaker 1: and then particularly the grandmother who what what show is
Speaker 1: she on? She's on Good Times another show I watched.
Speaker 1: I watched a lot of Niked Knight as a child then.
Speaker 1: But I liked that Bobby's grandmother was kind of like
Speaker 1: she kind of ended up being the only person who,
Speaker 1: you know, saw what was going on and said it,
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of cool. I just wish
Speaker 1: that there was like more, I don't know, more more
Speaker 1: of her. Yeah. In fact, for the first like fifty
Speaker 1: or so minutes of the movie, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess we're just going to meet the grandmother and
Speaker 1: then she's never gonna come back into the story. But
Speaker 1: then she does, and she plays a pretty significant role
Speaker 1: in sort of inspiring Bobby to like walk off this
Speaker 1: set and quit this movie, because in this world, you
Speaker 1: bring your entire family to shoot a movie with you.
Speaker 1: That was the other thing. I was like, Wow, he
Speaker 1: just brought literally everyone he knows to the same including
Speaker 1: his child brother, and they would film in the whole movie.
Speaker 1: In that one day, it's like a guy, damn play
Speaker 1: the heart. Do you think of it? About it? The
Speaker 1: lass Jimmy's Revenge makes sense? But yeah, so I like
Speaker 1: that the grandmother character becomes important and a lot of
Speaker 1: what she says is like, again, part of this important
Speaker 1: commentary that's happening in the movie. And then there's even
Speaker 1: like a nice conversation between her and Bobby's mom where
Speaker 1: she's saying, like, I don't want a grandson of mine
Speaker 1: to be adding to all this negative imagery of black
Speaker 1: people in media, and his mom is like, yes, everything
Speaker 1: you're saying is right, but also it's work, like he
Speaker 1: need needs to work and if this is has chosen
Speaker 1: line of work, like he's got to do what's available
Speaker 1: to him. And so there's like that, you know, the
Speaker 1: push and pull of do I take a horribly racist
Speaker 1: role or do I, you know, like by by my principles,
Speaker 1: which means never getting work and never making money. So
Speaker 1: it's like this whole the just a tug of war
Speaker 1: kind of thing with your own conscience. But um yeah,
Speaker 1: like we said, there's we get introduced to the grandmother
Speaker 1: at the very beginning, and then she's pretty much absent
Speaker 1: from the story until the last like twenty minutes or so, right,
Speaker 1: And I liked I mean, I liked that conversation that
Speaker 1: his mother and grandmother we're having, Like that is I
Speaker 1: feel like that's like that conversation they're having is at
Speaker 1: the core of the movie, and like clearly he like
Speaker 1: really values their respect and like doesn't want to disappoint them,
Speaker 1: and they're kind of at the core of like the
Speaker 1: kind of like the back in for it that he's
Speaker 1: experiencing of like does he take this role or not?
Speaker 1: But yeah, but they're just barely there. I don't know, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it is. It is one of those things
Speaker 1: where it's like, I I wish there was definitely more
Speaker 1: in that because that that central theme of the movie
Speaker 1: comes down to two black women talking and it's like
Speaker 1: I wish there was more of a lead up to it. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that was like that, and then the the unchecked
Speaker 1: homophobia that came up at a few points in this
Speaker 1: movie were certainly very Yeah, but yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's that was I mean, how the how the female
Speaker 1: characters are kind of sidelined was like really the main
Speaker 1: thing that bummed me out about this movie, because otherwise
Speaker 1: it's like saying so much that no movie ever does
Speaker 1: and saying it that is so like still unfortunately like
Speaker 1: super relevant. Yeah, and it's like, you know, black black
Speaker 1: women deserve to be a part of that conversation. And
Speaker 1: there's just as much, if not you know, even more
Speaker 1: like comedic stuff to draw on, but it's just not
Speaker 1: what this movie is doing. Yeah, I guess that like
Speaker 1: the most the one of the biggest bummers of it
Speaker 1: is like that's the that's the most that a lot
Speaker 1: of the black actress, the three black actress in this
Speaker 1: movie got to do other than the stereotypes in the
Speaker 1: movie like that year Like that's also like just such
Speaker 1: a such such a stark thing. Is like they don't
Speaker 1: really do a whole lot in necessarily this movie. But
Speaker 1: it's and it's still not it's at least not the
Speaker 1: thing that they're lamp wounding in it. And it's like
Speaker 1: still like such a mind warp of just like awfulness. Yeah, wait,
Speaker 1: I'm this is I'm looking at Amory Johnson's IMDb and
Speaker 1: I'm realizing I've seen her in so much stuff, including
Speaker 1: she was an iconic role on That's so raven. She
Speaker 1: played Donna Cabana on That's So Raven all my thoughts
Speaker 1: So Raven heads, you'll know who I'm talking about. Wow. Huge,
Speaker 1: she was in Boomerang. I remember that. Oh yeah, Wow,
Speaker 1: that makes me so happy. I'm googling Donna Cabana because
Speaker 1: she had the best outfits. Anyways, Um, shout out to
Speaker 1: Donna Cabana. Um, it's saying it over and over. It
Speaker 1: gets I wish I knew what that was she save.
Speaker 1: I also did not watch She's wait. I want to
Speaker 1: make sure I'm getting her character description right. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure she Yeah, she's like a famous fashion designer in
Speaker 1: the world of That's So Raven. She's like Raven's hero.
Speaker 1: She looks up to Donna Cabana and she wants to
Speaker 1: be just like Donna Cabana. And then she meets Donna
Speaker 1: Cabana and guess what. Donna Cabana is a bit of
Speaker 1: a wacky character my Disney channel. Um, so you know
Speaker 1: it's written. Uh, it's co written with Keenan, Ivory Waynes
Speaker 1: and Robert Townsend. Directed by Robert Townsend. It's produced by
Speaker 1: Robert Townsend. And there is a woman in the mix here. Um,
Speaker 1: there is a female Latin X producer named Lydia Nicole
Speaker 1: who has gone by Lydia Fernandez at different times in
Speaker 1: her career. But I did not like I once I
Speaker 1: saw pictures of her. She was in a bunch of
Speaker 1: she's like a child actor who kind of became a producer.
Speaker 1: And now UM is in charge of a nonprofit called
Speaker 1: Common Sense Media and like advocates for representation in media.
Speaker 1: But this was like her first producing gig. She was
Speaker 1: previously in another movie we talked about recently, Stand and Deliver,
Speaker 1: the classic. I think she was one of the students
Speaker 1: in Stand and Deliver. I'm not I'm not exactly sure,
Speaker 1: but and she kind of pivoted into UM producing and
Speaker 1: backing projects that she believed in. She started doing stand
Speaker 1: up in her late twenties and like started all these
Speaker 1: like women of color comedy showcases in l A and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just got rules. I enjoyed learning
Speaker 1: about her and she she started UM. After that, she
Speaker 1: she collaborated with Robert Townsend. I think a few more times.
Speaker 1: She's like a producer on a bunch of his projects
Speaker 1: and UM and their buds. So I just wanted to
Speaker 1: give her her a shout out, because it's always I mean,
Speaker 1: especially in the late eighties, there's like barely any women
Speaker 1: high up in any Hollywood project, and so I'm glad
Speaker 1: that she she like had a seat at the table there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Shout out Lydia, shout out. I wonder if
Speaker 1: the character in this movie Lydia was named after her?
Speaker 1: I wow, makes I did not. I did all that
Speaker 1: research and did not make that connect. Yeah, yeah, see that.
Speaker 1: See that. That's that symbiotic relationship. You guys, your notes
Speaker 1: fit into each other's notes. We need each other to
Speaker 1: connect the dots. Sometimes, yeah, you're mad mad Venom vibes here.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I listened to the themes that Eminem theme song
Speaker 1: from Venom when I just need a good laugh because
Speaker 1: it's so funny. WHOA, I didn't know that was a thing.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's just like him who knows what
Speaker 1: he's thinking for must but then he goes just Venom,
Speaker 1: but like just he just screams Venom, and you're just like,
Speaker 1: this is such a disaster. It's it's the funniest song
Speaker 1: in the world. I forgot all about that song. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the best part of Venom laid in the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as if that movie could couldn't get any more like
Speaker 1: bash you over the head with when it's about Eminem
Speaker 1: starts screaming Venom in the middle like it is wild.
Speaker 1: That's great. That's also the most San Francisco movie. That's
Speaker 1: like that year. It's like that movie and Last black
Speaker 1: Man in San Francisco were like I was like, wow
Speaker 1: that it was like that was part of the San
Speaker 1: Francisco come up. San Francisco representation at an all time high.
Speaker 1: You had Sorry to Bother You, Last black Man, San Francisco,
Speaker 1: and Venom like they all came out like within a year.
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, mad, San Francisco movies all very similar. Wow.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna do a quick shout out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't really have like much to note in terms
Speaker 1: of his character, but always love to see John Witherspoon.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, John Willispoon so good the he's his boss
Speaker 1: at the hot dog stand, Dinky Dog. I was curious.
Speaker 1: I was like when I saw that, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: wonder how like because they're like uniform in the aesthetic
Speaker 1: is similar to Good Burger, and I'm like, I wonder
Speaker 1: if Good Burger is pulling from the Hollywood Shuffle asthetic.
Speaker 1: It's the it's the expanding universe. Yeah, Jamie, I think
Speaker 1: it's crucial that we cover Good Burger on the Bendel Cast. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: In my in my notes, I wrote, like, am I
Speaker 1: reaching dog looks? I don't think so. I Good Burger
Speaker 1: was my favorite movie. I don't know what year it
Speaker 1: came out, but whatever year it came out, that was
Speaker 1: my favorite movie of that year. Yeah. Well that I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, Titanic was my favorite if
Speaker 1: it is ninety seven, obviously Titanic is my favorite movie
Speaker 1: of ninety seven. I would love to see, like you,
Speaker 1: at like ten years old, what your top Tenny, You're
Speaker 1: like like, You're like, yo, it's it's Titanic, it's good Burger,
Speaker 1: Good Burger. And I found as good as he gets.
Speaker 1: I found it tart a bit derivative for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the word. I was saying that tarts a flavor, right,
Speaker 1: I think movies can be tarted. I haven't revisited Good
Speaker 1: Burger in so long. Oh my god, I got my
Speaker 1: little Good Burger. Antenna went up because they have the
Speaker 1: same like hats. I'm like, maybe that's just what hats
Speaker 1: looked like at fast food restaurants in the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think don't remember. Even so, even so,
Speaker 1: good Burger is important for us to talk about. Speaking
Speaker 1: of Winky Dinky Dogs, another thing that I didn't love
Speaker 1: to see, obviously was Bobby constantly fat shames one of
Speaker 1: his co workers at Winky Dinky Dogs and another just
Speaker 1: like of the time, still a problem him in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Not good. Another thing I wanted to Sam, you brought
Speaker 1: this up, but I wanted to just say a little
Speaker 1: bit more about it as far as another piece of
Speaker 1: commentary that the movie does in terms of um black
Speaker 1: actors with really impressive credentials being forced into again just
Speaker 1: the reductive roles that are available to them. Because there's
Speaker 1: that scene where like that guy's like, I just I
Speaker 1: got my degree at the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art,
Speaker 1: and then he goes on to try to audition for
Speaker 1: this role. He doesn't do a good job, and then
Speaker 1: he's like, wait a minute, I can do it in
Speaker 1: I ambic pentameter u. Yeah. Yeah. I always I always
Speaker 1: think of as a class thing, Like I always think
Speaker 1: of him as like this this like up pitty like
Speaker 1: Ivy League guy, and he's like, oh no, you can't
Speaker 1: even you can't. You know you you were so removed
Speaker 1: from from what's like really going on to be able
Speaker 1: to do it, and and then to have the audacity
Speaker 1: to be like, oh yeah, I can do it. It's
Speaker 1: like my favorite thing I was. It's very it's so funny.
Speaker 1: I was reading it as how so many black actors
Speaker 1: will have like or just like performance artists in general,
Speaker 1: they'll have gone to like Juilliard or like, you know,
Speaker 1: some really well regarded school. They'll have an impressive educational background.
Speaker 1: They'll have had to put in so much more work
Speaker 1: than their white peers, but you know, have access to
Speaker 1: way fewer opportunities to showcase their hard work and their talent,
Speaker 1: which seems very pulled from like Robert Townson's own life too,
Speaker 1: because he's like extremely well trained. He like went through
Speaker 1: all every second city course on the planet. He was
Speaker 1: like a part of a theater company in New York.
Speaker 1: Like he like put in the hours and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: those scenes especially, I feel like the movie is like
Speaker 1: at its strongest when he's like pulling from his like
Speaker 1: personal experience, and like the same for Keen and Ivory
Speaker 1: wins because it's like, yeah, he went to school for
Speaker 1: this for fucking years and years and years. You know.
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention this when we were talking abou
Speaker 1: winky Dinky dogs might go on perfect beginning to a sentence.
Speaker 1: I just love when he's like, when we see that
Speaker 1: the minimum wage has only gone up five dollars in
Speaker 1: thirty two and thirty two or thirty three years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, because because Keena's like I
Speaker 1: was making two fifty, I'm making to sixty five. Yeah. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know what adjusted for inflation that even is,
Speaker 1: but like, damn, just not criminal how little we pay. Um.
Speaker 1: I went in to kittlee do you reference this at
Speaker 1: the beginning? I have some some notes on it that
Speaker 1: how this movie was received at the time of its release. Um,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of I didn't notice that there were
Speaker 1: a few lukewarm reviews based on kind of the stuff
Speaker 1: we were talking about, where like some reviewers kind of
Speaker 1: knocked Townsend for not addressing or just kind of making
Speaker 1: light of the struggle of black female actors and also
Speaker 1: of queer people, and like, there were certainly points lost,
Speaker 1: mostly from female reviewers, from that, but it's generally really
Speaker 1: well reviewed when it comes out. Ebert gave it three stars,
Speaker 1: which I mean, he's only got thumps, he's only got
Speaker 1: two thumbs, but he's got three stars from and he
Speaker 1: does I guess. I guess he does three out of
Speaker 1: four stars. So if you're thinking of five, like so
Speaker 1: he gave, he said it was an artistic compromise, but
Speaker 1: a gistical triumph, announcing the arrival of a new talent
Speaker 1: whose next movie should really be something. And it's like,
Speaker 1: shut up, but like you sounded just you sounded just
Speaker 1: like Durantula when you said it's like people people liked it,
Speaker 1: and it was it did really well, and it seems like,
Speaker 1: um yeah, everyone was like, oh wow, like here's this
Speaker 1: like new oh tour and so so that I found that,
Speaker 1: I honestly like, you just never know with especially in
Speaker 1: like the late eighties, where it's like there's next to
Speaker 1: no one in the film reviewing community that is not
Speaker 1: an old white guy that like is really trying to
Speaker 1: be Roger Ebert. So I think there's worth noting though that,
Speaker 1: at least on the Rotten Tomatoes count, this movie was
Speaker 1: only reviewed by critics versus major blockbuster wide release movies
Speaker 1: that will get hundreds of reviews. So this is the
Speaker 1: type of movie like it could have been elevated had
Speaker 1: more critics reviewed it and reviewed it positively and like
Speaker 1: that would have encouraged more people to see it. And
Speaker 1: in fact, I'm curious, So listeners, tell us how familiar
Speaker 1: you are with this movie, because this movie, I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's like off the beaten path for
Speaker 1: a lot of audiences. Like it's not a super well
Speaker 1: known movie, and I knew next to nothing about it
Speaker 1: before we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like most people I know very few people who have
Speaker 1: heard of it. It's always like it's always either someone
Speaker 1: has seen it and loved it or has never even
Speaker 1: heard of it, right, Like I I've never met someone
Speaker 1: who's been like, oh I heard of it. I I've
Speaker 1: always want to sit, you know. I never like yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's that kind of movie. Is like people who
Speaker 1: would be into it have like definitely seen it, you know,
Speaker 1: or they're like, wow, I can't believe I didn't see it.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like it reminds your nights silver were
Speaker 1: nanty Is that how you say nights of Rodancy, Like,
Speaker 1: is Rodanty a person or a place? Um, we don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's a small village in Italy. That's probably
Speaker 1: a safe bet. I was hoping you both were going
Speaker 1: to be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of it. No,
Speaker 1: here's what's really embarrassing. I've seen Nights in Rodanthy Knights
Speaker 1: of Rodanthy. I don't know what preposition it is. I've
Speaker 1: seen that movie. I have no idea what Rodanthy is.
Speaker 1: I can't I don't remember that movie evening. You ever
Speaker 1: see that? It's like Vanessa Redgrave and like Patrick Wilson
Speaker 1: and um, well, uh what's his name? From Center Beauty
Speaker 1: There in a Beauty Beauty Seat, the one with Billy
Speaker 1: crut Up where he's like Claire Danes and our needs
Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know why that was the movie,
Speaker 1: The way that you got to Claire Danes, that that
Speaker 1: was some more Tom Hardy venom bro Dancy is a
Speaker 1: tiny village. Yeah, hell you nailed it. Hell yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys say you guys thought I didn't bring fucking notes.
Speaker 1: I brought notes. I brought notes to the backtel you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? We Um, does anyone have any
Speaker 1: other thoughts on Hollywood Shuffle. Oh, yeah, we would talking
Speaker 1: about That's one of my favorite movies. We should do
Speaker 1: we should do a podcast episode about it. Oh, I
Speaker 1: think that might be a good idea. Oh, I just wanted.
Speaker 1: I just want to say, Um, my favorite part in
Speaker 1: Hollywood Shuffle has always been the movie critics uh segment.
Speaker 1: It's just my absolute favorite. I it's just jokes on
Speaker 1: tops of jokes. I I love it so much. There
Speaker 1: is I don't want to see Attack of the Street Pimps,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's bad everything about it. It's
Speaker 1: it's very existence is bad for society. But god damn,
Speaker 1: that's hilarious. That scene. It's just so fucking funny. When
Speaker 1: they're because like they reviewed these and when they do
Speaker 1: the amadas and he's like I used to say, so
Speaker 1: my friends, just like man, I adn't go to see
Speaker 1: any bullshit I can't pronounce, Like, how are you gonna
Speaker 1: be like even like I'm gonna see i'm a i'm
Speaker 1: a what I can't stell laughing. And then when they
Speaker 1: do the Dirty Harry because I always I never liked
Speaker 1: Dirty Harry. And when they did the Dirty Larry and
Speaker 1: that whole Dirty Larry sequence. I think it's like one
Speaker 1: of the funniest things ever ever seen, Like when when
Speaker 1: he's like when they're talking about the guns, and then
Speaker 1: and then they're like, yo, you think you're gonna have
Speaker 1: a fucking conversation right now? Like I just I just
Speaker 1: love this movie. Man. Yeah. That was. And at the
Speaker 1: end of the Attack of the Street Pimps review, they
Speaker 1: eat like they were like, it was full of stereotypes,
Speaker 1: but we thought the direction was brilliant when they're like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that guy looks just like the dude from down the street.
Speaker 1: Crack up so much. I really like that. This is
Speaker 1: a very like specific joke that people don't make opted
Speaker 1: because it's a weird joke to make often. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the movie reviewing segment, they give up
Speaker 1: a high five and they do like a light slab
Speaker 1: they go like, which always makes me laugh so much
Speaker 1: when someone does a bunch of tepid high fives in
Speaker 1: a row. Hadn't seen it in a while. I was laughing.
Speaker 1: I can't remember if I'm gonna get you sucker came
Speaker 1: out before this. I think it came out right after.
Speaker 1: I think right after right, So this was Damon Wayans
Speaker 1: debut on screen. I think. Wow. That's the other thing
Speaker 1: that's so amazing is like you look at this gast
Speaker 1: and it's just like a list of black excellence from
Speaker 1: like you know, Damon Wayans, Paul Mooney, Robert Townsend. Uh,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's just remarkable. Um. I just wish more
Speaker 1: women had been involved, meaningful, especially because they passed Helen Martin,
Speaker 1: who is like an iconic black sitcom actress, Like why
Speaker 1: not give her more to do? Yeah? Yeah, no, I mean, hey,
Speaker 1: I I completely agree with you. I love I love
Speaker 1: feminism and famously new T shirt design. Our merchant is
Speaker 1: getting more and more basis time passes. I love feminism,
Speaker 1: Sam Mike. If you guys start doing, no, your next merch,
Speaker 1: your next merch is going to be like YouTube as
Speaker 1: venom and hardy, like front to back, like one of
Speaker 1: you was venom, one of you was hardy, and like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the new merch. Like Yo, beck
Speaker 1: Deel listeners, if you're still listening, go on the comments,
Speaker 1: Go on the go on the Bechdel cast Reddit, Get
Speaker 1: Jamie and data to make venom t shirts. Done done? Fine, Fine,
Speaker 1: I'll do it. Well, does the movie pass the Beck
Speaker 1: dol test Um. I think I didn't think it did.
Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't sure. I honestly like, I wasn't
Speaker 1: paying super super closettention. But it did seem like most
Speaker 1: times female characters were talking to each other, it was
Speaker 1: about either Bobby or there is that thing where they
Speaker 1: were at the at the audition scene where to nameless
Speaker 1: actresses were talking about um getting sexually harassed by a
Speaker 1: male director. There's a couple there's a scene where the
Speaker 1: like the casting director I think is like her role.
Speaker 1: She is named as Millicent. She is talking to another
Speaker 1: woman who gets named as Miss Strickland, and they talk
Speaker 1: about the role that Ms Strickland is auditioning for and
Speaker 1: like the type of person they are looking for. So
Speaker 1: that technically passes. And then the scene with Bobby's I
Speaker 1: was so nervous, Wait, so it does pass. I think
Speaker 1: it does because I would also I think there's an
Speaker 1: argument to be made for the scene where Bobby's mom
Speaker 1: and grandma they are talking about Bobby, but it's part
Speaker 1: of a larger conversation about negative representations of black people
Speaker 1: in media. So I was like, okay that that feels
Speaker 1: like it would be maybe an exception to the rule.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The bottom line, women aren't in this
Speaker 1: movie enough. There's not enough commentary on the way black
Speaker 1: women are represented in media. And it's the bummer because
Speaker 1: there's more than enough room for it in exact movie
Speaker 1: and like more than enough material too end things to
Speaker 1: be said about it. And with that in mind, as
Speaker 1: far as our nipple scale, in which we write the
Speaker 1: movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based
Speaker 1: on an intersectional examination of the movie, even though it
Speaker 1: is providing a lot of really funny and effective commentary
Speaker 1: on the way black men specifically are represented in Hollywood,
Speaker 1: as we've been saying, there is a noticeable lack of
Speaker 1: commentary as it relates to Black women and their representation
Speaker 1: in media. And I think even though some of the
Speaker 1: characters who are women in the movie, like especially the grandma,
Speaker 1: I would say is the kind of most important character
Speaker 1: to Bobby, she still doesn't get that much screen time.
Speaker 1: His girlfriend doesn't get much screen time. We know nothing
Speaker 1: about her. There's just there's just not enough there. And
Speaker 1: there are many cases in which black men haven't shown
Speaker 1: up for black women as much as they should and
Speaker 1: this just kind of feels like one of those examples
Speaker 1: of like, why wouldn't you when you're making a movie
Speaker 1: that is specifically like a satire and specifically commentary on
Speaker 1: black representation in media, why wouldn't you include black women
Speaker 1: in that more meaningfully? And then there's the homophobic jokes
Speaker 1: and slurs that get made. So I don't know where
Speaker 1: to land on this exactly on the nipple scale, I
Speaker 1: guess I think I can only really give it like
Speaker 1: a two point five. Yeah, I was gonna go like
Speaker 1: a two two point five. I agree with with everything
Speaker 1: you're saying. Um, yeah, there's just there's a ton of
Speaker 1: opportunities to include women and commentary on how black women
Speaker 1: struggle in Hollywood. Here it wasn't done. You have like
Speaker 1: such a like such such tremendously talented Black actresses in
Speaker 1: this movie, and they don't really get to do much.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like this movie does something that
Speaker 1: just wasn't done at all at this time, and there
Speaker 1: wasn't any money put behind, and the fact that it
Speaker 1: exists through like Robert Townsend's like Cheer will Power is
Speaker 1: really amazing. Yeah, and and and I was happy to
Speaker 1: see that there is a female producer. But yeah, ultimately
Speaker 1: it's like there's no reason women and where people shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been included more meaningfully here, And uh, I wish
Speaker 1: it had that said. I really enjoyed the movie. It's
Speaker 1: I like I would. If you haven't seen it genuinely,
Speaker 1: you should see it. It's really funny and good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But two nipples. As far as as far as our
Speaker 1: scale goes, I guess, and I will give Who will
Speaker 1: I give my nipples to? I will give I will
Speaker 1: give one to Helen Martin, and I'll give one to
Speaker 1: a Marie Johnson. I'll go the obvious route. I'll do
Speaker 1: the same, and I'll give my extra half nipple two
Speaker 1: winky dinky dogs iconic. Yeah, Sam, what about you? What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts? Um? I I do agree with everything
Speaker 1: you said. I think for me, it's one of those
Speaker 1: things is just like a male black comic. It's I
Speaker 1: see I look at the film and I just see
Speaker 1: what it what it's done, and to me, I feel
Speaker 1: like some of his shortcomings is made up for what
Speaker 1: it has done for black creative people as a whole
Speaker 1: for thirty years. And I think that it's set a standard.
Speaker 1: It's set a precedent. It's set a pathway, and I
Speaker 1: think that pathway has been used greatly for men and women.
Speaker 1: That it's still like a there's still a lot to do,
Speaker 1: but I do feel like it does do that, and
Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, it's just like there's
Speaker 1: not there weren't a lot of um just to get
Speaker 1: to a Blackmail in seven, writing, producing, and starring in
Speaker 1: his own film that is seen by countless theaters across
Speaker 1: the country. That feet in and of itself, I feel
Speaker 1: like is just so impressive and just and just so
Speaker 1: meaningful overall that I think that it that some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that I think would be if it was
Speaker 1: remade today, which you know, we already talked about why
Speaker 1: it wouldn't work today, but like if it was remade today,
Speaker 1: I think those things would not be in it. Right,
Speaker 1: So I look at it is like it all will
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have as meaningful of an impact as it
Speaker 1: did then, And I feel like what it does there,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's just like it's the only thing
Speaker 1: I can see when I see the film. But I
Speaker 1: I again don't I don't disagree, it's just it's just
Speaker 1: it's just something that I I can only see its
Speaker 1: progress because it's just it's the only thing like it
Speaker 1: there's there still hasn't been anything quite like it besides
Speaker 1: Scary Movie, which is made by the co writer of
Speaker 1: the film you know. Um. So it's a feat that
Speaker 1: only two black eyes have ever done in thirty years,
Speaker 1: and one of them both of them were in the
Speaker 1: same movie, you know. So it's it's just that that's
Speaker 1: that's what I see. But I also don't disagree with
Speaker 1: anything you said. Uh, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I would give it like, I would give it five nipples,
Speaker 1: and I would give all of them to Anthony Hopkins.
Speaker 1: The twist full disclosure, I might cut that whole human
Speaker 1: staying part out of the episode. So if you want to,
Speaker 1: I like it, I like I like the mystery I
Speaker 1: will be based on based on what you just described,
Speaker 1: I'll bump up to a two point five. I'll match
Speaker 1: Caitlin there because I hadn't. Yeah, like that the fact
Speaker 1: that Hollywood Shuffle did like pave the way for black
Speaker 1: female comedians, the black female you know tours like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very existence is the thing that I find so
Speaker 1: as funny. Like to me, it's still one of the
Speaker 1: funniest movies I've ever seen. But it's very existence even
Speaker 1: exceeds how much I love it's humor. Sure, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: legacy even though, and that's what kind of like I
Speaker 1: wish it had. It definitely has a legacy, and it
Speaker 1: definitely did a lot to pave the way and inspire
Speaker 1: particularly black filmmakers and just artists of color. I wish
Speaker 1: that it had a bigger legacy in terms of I
Speaker 1: wish more people have seen this movie. But you can
Speaker 1: see it's impact truly, like what it was. It was
Speaker 1: kind of fun to watch this movie and also and
Speaker 1: and be able to be like, oh, you know, I've
Speaker 1: seen like a ton of TV and movies that clearly
Speaker 1: are pulling from this movie. I just didn't realize it,
Speaker 1: right totally. Yeah it's and yeah, it's just it's so
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough how to any listener that hasn't
Speaker 1: seen it, Like, how god damn funny it is? It's
Speaker 1: so funny. Oh, I wonder do most of your listeners
Speaker 1: have they seen the movie? Like do they tell you
Speaker 1: if they've seen the movie? Like some people only listen
Speaker 1: to the episode if they've seen the movies. Some people
Speaker 1: will watch listen to the episode regardless of whether or
Speaker 1: not they've watched the movie. Yeah, because most of the
Speaker 1: movies you guys do is old. So I was I
Speaker 1: was always fascinating, like yeah, because I wonder if I
Speaker 1: wonder I wonder if anyone's listeners and hasn't seen it
Speaker 1: and still wants to see it, like you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's always I'm always I'm fascinating like that,
Speaker 1: if you guys have any of that kind of like
Speaker 1: ratio if like there's a lot of people that are like, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I check out Lolita because I heard it on the
Speaker 1: back dep hopefully not that one, but I think that, um,
Speaker 1: regardless of it, it's shortcomings that we discussed. I think
Speaker 1: this is a movie worth watching. So if you have
Speaker 1: not seen it, you have listened to this episode all
Speaker 1: the way to this point, I would recommend checking the
Speaker 1: movie out because again it's still making a lot of
Speaker 1: meaningful and important, ineffective points that are still again all
Speaker 1: too relevant today. So in that way, like there's some
Speaker 1: things that like age poorly about this movie, the you know,
Speaker 1: the homophobia and the fat shaming and the kind of
Speaker 1: ignoring women, but there's other there's many other things about
Speaker 1: the ignoring, but other things about it are are still
Speaker 1: sadly pretty relevant. So M yeah, um, we'll say m
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on this roller
Speaker 1: coaster of an episode. I've had a blast me too,
Speaker 1: so thanks. Here. Where can people check out your your stuff?
Speaker 1: Follow you on social media? Yeah? Um, you can follow
Speaker 1: me at the sam ike on Twitter, Instagram. Um you
Speaker 1: can also, um, if you want. I've been trying to
Speaker 1: become like the biggest Zoom comic. So if you can
Speaker 1: follow me on Zoom, I'm ww dot zoom dot com.
Speaker 1: Slash four six seven HP five to f C two
Speaker 1: seven w x Y that's my Zoom link. Click on it,
Speaker 1: I'll join you, get in the group, build my brand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. I've got a good feeling about this,
Speaker 1: and the pivot to Zoom is gonna be huge. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be big. I'm gonna be crushing it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get like I'm already at like I'm already at like
Speaker 1: three thousand Zoom followers. Y'all just people just sitting there
Speaker 1: waiting for me to come on and be like, Yo,
Speaker 1: here's my house, and you know what you know who
Speaker 1: also is going to hear this, Jill Loft, This is
Speaker 1: about to send a zoom request. Did she listen to
Speaker 1: every episode? Yeah? She listened. She she will listen to
Speaker 1: your episode. She doesn't listen. Caitlin has a more thorough
Speaker 1: mother than I do. My mom does listen to every episode.
Speaker 1: Hi mom, HILARI yo. Mr Durantula, y'all shout out. Uh.
Speaker 1: Durantula has always been really tight. I hope you're enjoying Scran. Uh.
Speaker 1: She doesn't live in Scranton. I always thought, I thought,
Speaker 1: I know you're from Scran. No, I've never lived None
Speaker 1: of my family has ever lived in Scranton. They live
Speaker 1: outside of State College, Pennsylvania. Damn it. Yes, you're right,
Speaker 1: you're You tell me that every time, and I always
Speaker 1: think you're saying Scran. I always, for some ways, I
Speaker 1: always think you're saying Scran. Good grief. Well, yeah, so
Speaker 1: our moms are cool. That's the moral of this story
Speaker 1: and what else. You can follow us on social media
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. You can check
Speaker 1: out our Patreon a k A Matreon. We have a
Speaker 1: bunch of episodes there in the back catalog and probably
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Speaker 1: coming up. I can't wait for your listeners to be like, yeo,
Speaker 1: I really liked them, but when they got into that
Speaker 1: Diane Lane phase, it was really they just lost me.
Speaker 1: They lost that magic when they started focusing on strictly
Speaker 1: Diane Lane. Unfortunately, it is going to inspire us to
Speaker 1: change the name of the podcast to the Rectal Cast,
Speaker 1: and who knows what that's gonna be about. Even Dianne
Speaker 1: really fucked us over. But anyway, if you do want
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Speaker 1: Lane episodes. Holy sh is this a bonus episode? No,
Speaker 1: this is a real one. This is a baby Oh shit?
Speaker 1: Oh funk? I would have like tried you would have
Speaker 1: taken notes? Well, honestly, it's it's fine that it's better
Speaker 1: that you didn't. Yes, we wouldn't have gotten the Tom
Speaker 1: Hardy venom reference if you had taken notes, And that
Speaker 1: was just beautiful, pure improv. Yeah. I love Yes and
Speaker 1: and ship Man shout out to Dell Close. Also, we've
Speaker 1: got our public store where you can get all of
Speaker 1: our our merch, including maybe a new T shirt design
Speaker 1: that is I Love feminism. Well, do you have many?
Speaker 1: They're gonna start, They're gonna start really just flying off
Speaker 1: the shelf. I'm telling you, I'm telling you the way
Speaker 1: to go. You guys got to get into that Venom
Speaker 1: you gotta get Yeah, that's true. They got that sequel
Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson. Oh really, Oh god, Yeah, Allison's gonna be carnage.
Speaker 1: He's carnage is like Venom but red pass hard pass um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can get our merch at t public
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