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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to Stefan Never told

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Speaker 1: you a production of iHeartRadio. So for today's classic, we're

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Speaker 1: bringing one back that I really hesitated to bring back

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Speaker 1: because it's really new in terms of when we bring

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Speaker 1: back classics. But I loved this book, and we are

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Speaker 1: in Hispanic Heritage month and we are in the time

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Speaker 1: where I'm wanting to devour all things creepy, and I

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Speaker 1: just yeah, I really really enjoyed this book and it

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Speaker 1: fits all of the criteria. As far as I know,

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Speaker 1: the show isn't out yet. I did a brief Google

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Speaker 1: search before this and I didn't see it, so that's

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Speaker 1: still that's still on the horizon. But if you miss

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Speaker 1: this the first fir time, if you haven't read this book,

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Speaker 1: really recommend it and please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not good with Stephan

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Speaker 1: Never told you protection of iHeartRadio. And today we have

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Speaker 1: a Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Edition of a book Club. Ooh, I'm very excited about this.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into it, I just have a

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Speaker 1: question out of curiosity to Samantha. When you read books,

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Speaker 1: do you picture like actors are people that you know visually?

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Speaker 2: When you read or hear like a character's description.

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Speaker 3: No, I have a vague, ghost like picture of them,

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Speaker 3: and does have a generic picture of what they look like,

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Speaker 3: but they're they're never of someone specific.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting.

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Speaker 3: I've thought about this before because when things turned into movies,

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Speaker 3: are they I'm like, oh, that is not who I pictured,

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Speaker 3: But I can't tell you exactly because it's not I

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Speaker 3: go by what they say, but it's not ever of

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Speaker 3: a person that I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's really interesting because lately we've seen

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Speaker 1: kind of a spate of people creating programs that are like,

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Speaker 1: this is what the character would really look like based

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Speaker 1: on the description.

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Speaker 2: I always have, like an actor or somebody.

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Speaker 1: I have, I have a clear picture in my head,

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Speaker 1: and I just feel like that this book was very

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Speaker 1: descriptive and very easy for me to kind of put like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's this, so it's this, so it's this, and I

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Speaker 1: just it really painted a picture.

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Speaker 2: In my head for me.

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Speaker 4: Okay, who did you picture?

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Speaker 1: Well, I could tell you, but it would I would

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Speaker 1: have to look up all the actors' names, because as

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not good with actors names.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, But I could do it.

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Speaker 1: I could do it, and I think it's part of

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Speaker 1: that is also just the cover art can influence that.

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Speaker 1: I've seen some stuff from the show. They're they're shooting

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Speaker 1: a show about this for Hulu, so some of that

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Speaker 1: can influence it. I remember, like when Harry Potter came out,

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Speaker 1: I had such a strong.

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Speaker 2: Like in my brain, who everybody looked like? That?

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Speaker 1: When the movies came out, I kind of almost had

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Speaker 1: like a breakdown is too strong of a word, but

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Speaker 1: it was like a war in my brain of like

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Speaker 1: who do they actually look like? And they sort of

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Speaker 1: all kind of came together and created a composition of both,

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Speaker 1: which is really interesting. But I can still remember, at

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Speaker 1: least for a lot of the big characters what they

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Speaker 1: looked like in my head versus what who.

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Speaker 2: Was actually cast.

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Speaker 1: So I just always find that interesting when people tell

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Speaker 1: me like, oh, I always thought this character would like

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Speaker 1: look like this person or this person or this person.

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Speaker 1: And listeners, if you have any thoughts or experiences about that,

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Speaker 1: please let let us know, because I really am interested

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Speaker 1: in it. But today we have to issue a spoiler

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Speaker 1: alert because we are going to spoil the heck of

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Speaker 1: this recent book because we're talking about Silvia Monino Gusse's

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty novel Mexican Gothics. So it's pretty recent and

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. If you don't want to be spoiled,

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Speaker 1: leave now, go read it.

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Speaker 2: It's a pretty quick reread and then come back and

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Speaker 2: then come back. And it was very, very successful.

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Speaker 1: It was critically acclaimed, and yes, is now being made

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Speaker 1: into a show for Hulu.

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Speaker 2: A content warning.

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Speaker 1: We are discussing a little bit of eugenics, suicidality, general grossness, death.

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Speaker 2: Murder, cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: We're not getting too much into any of thatens llucinogens.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is true.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny sometimes when we put the like content

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Speaker 1: warnings together and like this is making it sound so

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Speaker 1: much worse it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: But I just don't want to miss.

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Speaker 1: Anything, right, But yeah, all those topics are on the table.

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Speaker 2: If that gives you a taste for what this book

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Speaker 2: is about.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it does have influences of Jane Austen and

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Speaker 1: Emily Bronte, which I wanted to talk with you about,

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Speaker 1: right because before we recorded this, Samantha, one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I was like, I think we should do this

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Speaker 1: one was because I know you like Gothic, and I've

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Speaker 1: read did it kind of had some stuff to do

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Speaker 1: with like Jane Austen Emily Bronte, So I was like,

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Speaker 1: I think Samantha will like this one. I'm interested in it.

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Speaker 1: And you said before like you got that vibe right.

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Speaker 3: Right immediately, like I was like, oh, is this supposed

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Speaker 3: to be a retailing of Weathering Heights because it's kind

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Speaker 3: of that all ominous bit with and it's true with

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Speaker 3: like the head of the household haunting the entire home

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Speaker 3: type of thing. So yeah, I was like, Okay, this

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Speaker 3: is definitely that. And then they actually make mention of

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Speaker 3: the authors and I was like, there, it is perfect.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say Jane Austen necessarily, because Jane Austin was

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Speaker 3: not in Horror in any way whatsoever or the Darkness,

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Speaker 3: so I don't think that would be true of it.

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Speaker 3: But the Bronte sisters for sure, Mary Shelley maybe even

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Speaker 3: which sounds like Katerina loved those authors as well, but

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Speaker 3: you know that's further down the road. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: was immediately the style of it, the way that it

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Speaker 3: sets up the characters, boy, that it sets up the

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Speaker 3: romance very ominous you know something's going down. You know,

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Speaker 3: she's walking and thinking everything's fine, and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: nothing's okay, and.

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Speaker 4: It's a trap. Like that's the entirety of the.

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Speaker 3: Thing, And much like the Bronte Sisters, the home has

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Speaker 3: a huge part in being part of the darkness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very like I said, the author does a

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Speaker 1: great job of painting a picture because immediately you can

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Speaker 1: see like this fog and they're going up this hill

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Speaker 1: and there's this old mansion there, and there's just something

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Speaker 1: off about it. Like the atmosphere was excellently done. And

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Speaker 1: it did remind me of the Bronte Sisters of things

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Speaker 1: I've read from them.

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Speaker 4: I know, so they enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much.

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Speaker 2: Oh I did too. I really enjoyed it. I was

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Speaker 2: telling everybody about it and like what are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: Like you got to read it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really draws you in. At least that

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Speaker 1: was my experience. It was kind of immediately like who

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Speaker 1: I want to know?

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 1: It painted these really vivid and often unsettling or disturbing images,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, much of it does take place in this

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Speaker 1: decaying mansion that is shrouded by fuck.

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Speaker 2: So the environment is a big piece of it.

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Speaker 1: It is very atmospheric and very excellent building tension because

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, something's wrong. Something's wrong. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is, and something's off. Just all these little things.

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, all right, so let's get into the platte.

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Speaker 1: The story takes place in nineteen fifties Mexico and follows

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Speaker 1: Noami Taboada, a young, beautiful, clever, stubborn, witty social light

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Speaker 1: who dates for fun is studying anthropology. Kind of gives

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Speaker 1: that vibe of someone who's like trying a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: but is really into anthropology at this current juncture. After

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Speaker 1: receiving a bizarre letter from her cousin Katalina, claiming that

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Speaker 1: her English husband, a Virgil Doyle, is poisoning her, Noami

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Speaker 1: leaves Mexico City for the Doyle home, which is called

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Speaker 1: High Place and it's located in the mountains outside of

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Speaker 1: a small town called El Trionfo And Miami does this

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Speaker 1: at the behest of her father. Her father is like,

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Speaker 1: you're so stubborn, You're so determined. I know you can

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Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this. Something is wrong.

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Speaker 2: Well you please go and look into this.

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Speaker 1: And I really want to read the letter that they

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Speaker 1: receive from Catalina that starts this whole thing, because I

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Speaker 1: think it gives a really good vibe of like the

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Speaker 1: writing and what's going on. Okay, he is trying to

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Speaker 1: poison me. The house is sick with rot, stinks of decay,

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Speaker 1: brims with every single evil and cruel sentiment. I have

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Speaker 1: tried to hold onto my wits to keep this foulness away,

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Speaker 1: but I cannot, and I find myself losing track of

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Speaker 1: time and thoughts. Please please, They are cruel and unkind,

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Speaker 1: and they will not let me go. I bar my door,

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Speaker 1: but still they come. They whisper at nights, and I

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Speaker 1: am so afraid of these restless dead, these ghost, fleshless things.

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Speaker 1: The snake eating its tail, the foul ground beneath our feet,

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Speaker 1: the false faces and false tongues, the web upon which

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Speaker 1: the spider walks, making the strings vibrate. I am Catalina,

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Speaker 1: Catalina Taboada, Catalina, Kata Kata, come out to play. I

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Speaker 1: miss Noemi. I pray I'll see you again. You must

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Speaker 1: come for me, know, Ami, you have to save me.

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Speaker 1: I cannot save myself as much as I wish to,

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Speaker 1: I am bound threads like iron through my mind and

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Speaker 1: my skin, and it's there in the walls. It does

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Speaker 1: not release its hold on me. I must ask you

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Speaker 1: to spring me free, cut it from me, Stop them now,

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Speaker 1: for God's sake.

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Speaker 4: Oo too.

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Speaker 2: And now, knowing the end, I'm like, oh she.

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Speaker 3: Was saying, she's saying it, yeah, all of it. So

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Speaker 3: Nimi is transported to the High Place by Francis Doyle,

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Speaker 3: and the road is treacherous and misty, and upon arrival,

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Speaker 3: she's immediately unnerved and annoyed by the strict rules of

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Speaker 3: the house, largely imparted to her by Francis's mother, Florence.

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Speaker 3: She's not allowed to visit her cousin without a chaperone.

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Speaker 3: There's no speaking at dinner, no smoking, which, by the way,

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Speaker 3: Nimi smokes. Yes, she's one of those cool girls that

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Speaker 3: like the way you picture it, they describe it. She's

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Speaker 3: one of those cool girls and things like that. Florence

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Speaker 3: clearly does not want her to be there, and the

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Speaker 3: house itself isn't welcoming either, dark and decaying with patches

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Speaker 3: of black mold. Also, they are very behind in technology,

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Speaker 3: uses lamps, oils, oil lamps and candles.

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Speaker 4: There's no radio, there's no TV.

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Speaker 3: Everything is a little dark and they like it that way,

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Speaker 3: just so you know. And yes, it's the kine with

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Speaker 3: patches of black molds every where. Even the wine is

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Speaker 3: clothing and almost rotten, too sweet over the top. The

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Speaker 3: head of the house, Howard Doyle, is old and ill

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Speaker 3: and inappropriate. Miami is informed that Catalina is suffering from tuberculosis.

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Speaker 4: But she is.

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Speaker 3: Unconvinced. And yeah, by the way, Francis is someone important

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Speaker 3: and they are. She tries to flirt with him at

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Speaker 3: the very beginning.

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Speaker 2: She does. She does, and you can tell he's like, oh, yeah, this.

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Speaker 4: Is He's not been around many women.

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Speaker 1: So once Miami is permitted to see Catalina, she begs

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Speaker 1: Miami to get her a tincture from a woman in

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Speaker 1: town named Marta Duval and by tricking the family because

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Speaker 1: they're pretty sure, they're like, you can't go it's too

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Speaker 1: high to get up here, you can't go down. So

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Speaker 1: Miami tricks the family and is able to get a

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00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,880
Speaker 1: ride into town and to walk around unhindered, and she

219
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,680
Speaker 1: goes to talk to Marta, who tells her that the

220
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: family is cursed, and that one of the Doyle, Ruth,

221
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 1: killed several of the family members, shooting Howard before taking

222
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 1: her own life.

223
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:07,360
Speaker 2: Howard survived.

224
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 1: In another instance of Francis' father, Richard, was found dead

225
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,880
Speaker 1: in a ditch near the home. Noami then goes to

226
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: visit the local doctor, asking him to come to high

227
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: place to give a second opinion on Catalina, and the

228
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,320
Speaker 1: doctor is really reluctant because he's like, Oh, I'm not welcome.

229
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 2: They don't want me up there.

230
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 1: And Howard himself has made recent racist comments about how

231
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: none of the locals are competent, but he ultimately agrees

232
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,840
Speaker 1: the local doctor agrees to come and give his opinion.

233
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,600
Speaker 1: And let's step back a bit and talk about Howard

234
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: and the Doyles at large, because all right, So, during

235
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,680
Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, British companies and families flooded into Mexico

236
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,120
Speaker 1: in order to take advantage of local resources. The Doyles

237
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: in this book are one such family, and the house

238
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 1: is near a once profitable silver mine that was later flooded.

239
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,160
Speaker 1: There's this cemetery on the property with some of the

240
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 1: bodies of people who died working in the mine. They

241
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 1: are to reopen the mind, Noami learns, and she suspects

242
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: that they intend to somehow make Catalina docile in order

243
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 1: to use her money without her complaints. Howard frequently speaks

244
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 1: of quote superior and inferior types and of survival of

245
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,079
Speaker 1: the fittest, and keeps books on the subject around. Something

246
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 1: that angers Naimi, which in turn seems to amuse Howard.

247
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 3: So the local doctor confirms that it fits tuberculosis. It's

248
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 3: unlike any he has ever seen. And by the way,

249
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,079
Speaker 3: when Miami was in a town and meets with Marta,

250
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,160
Speaker 3: is too because Catalina sends her to her as the healer.

251
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 3: She's a healer and gets a tinture to Catalina. Finally,

252
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 3: but oh dear, it calls to have a seizure and

253
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,319
Speaker 3: makes the Doyles even stricter about when Naomi can visit her.

254
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 3: Of course, they all play the victim kind of gas

255
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,320
Speaker 3: lighter hmm. Naomi starts having disturbing dreams and visions of

256
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 3: a gold woman, a buzzing coming from the walls, the

257
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 3: mold moving, pulsating and almost calling to her, and her

258
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,079
Speaker 3: dreams that seem real, unpleasant ones that seems to almost

259
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 3: drug her to having sex with Virgil and wakes up

260
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 3: to after she hears place of open her eyes. She

261
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 3: starts sleepwalking, something she hasn't done since she was a child,

262
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,559
Speaker 3: and feels that she's losing her grip on reality early,

263
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,440
Speaker 3: similar to what happened to her cousin, and she begins

264
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 3: to suspect that Catalina may not be ill and the

265
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 3: house is haunted or at least coming for them.

266
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 2: Yes.

267
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, as all of this is happening, know Ami and

268
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 1: Francis do grow closer, Sincenomi has to smoke outside. They

269
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: walk around the misty grounds together, and know Ami learns

270
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: that Francis, who is definitely the black sheep of the

271
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 1: family studies mushrooms and insects, is well read and interesting.

272
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 1: Know Ami, who has enjoyed many relationships in the past

273
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: and continues to enjoy like it's kind of funny how

274
00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: often she'll be sort of like, she's not my usual type.

275
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 1: She feels herself growing closer to him. However, he is

276
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: still somewhat distant and warns her that speaking Spanish is

277
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 1: not allowed in the home and that they can hear

278
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,040
Speaker 1: you that she should leave. He's clearly like very on

279
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 1: edge and worried about her. This is underscored by other

280
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 1: comments from the family like smoking, Hurt says just things

281
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: like that it's very sketchy.

282
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 3: So growing increasingly frustrated and disturbed, too afraid to sleep,

283
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 3: and feeling cut off. After Martha disappears, Noimi decides to

284
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 3: send a letter to her father requesting he's send help

285
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 3: or at least trying to go out and get help somehow,

286
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 3: trying to leave the place.

287
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 4: She's done. She's done with this place. She needs to

288
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 4: get out.

289
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 3: But the night before her departure, the Doyles informed her

290
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 3: they'll have one final dinner together and that she must

291
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 3: see Howard before she leaves.

292
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 4: To NOI me, he's horror.

293
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 3: Howard is covered in boils, one of his legs bloated,

294
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 3: and he is clearly on desk door and by the way,

295
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,080
Speaker 3: he's like she had imagined she was going to come

296
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 3: into him being tucked in as sickly. No, no, he's

297
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 3: naked and showing off all his boots, including the boils,

298
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 3: and the smell of his body is terrible, and she

299
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 3: tries to flee, but Virgil and Florence forced her to

300
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 3: hit her knees in front of him, and he kisses

301
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 3: her really grows by the way, making her swallow with

302
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 3: the black liquid from his mouth that stains his teeth,

303
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 3: that gets literally oozing out of his face, and she

304
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 3: feels incredibly ill and passes out, having visions h No.

305
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 1: When she wakes, Francis is in her room watching over her,

306
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 1: and she is understandingly furious. Francis explains that Howard is

307
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: actually hundreds of years old. He at one time he

308
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 1: was quite ill and determined to find a cure for

309
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 1: his illness, so he found locals in this area who

310
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 1: were using a strain of mushroom to heal themselves. Howard

311
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: exploited this and formed a symbiotic relationship with the mushroom

312
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: and part after eating the infant of a local woman

313
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: who had used the mushroom, obviously against her will. Many

314
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: others who partook died, but Howard believed his survival meant

315
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,360
Speaker 1: he could use his medicinal knowledge to make himself a mortal,

316
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,919
Speaker 1: and to accomplish this requires a number of things. So firstly,

317
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: the house is infused with the mushroom.

318
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 2: The air inside is full of spores.

319
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: It heals the family in there and makes their lives

320
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 1: last longer. It is what has been calling ton Ami,

321
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: dulling her senses, making her want to give into Virgil's

322
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: advances and wants her to become part of the family. Secondly,

323
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: the exploitation of the working class in order to fund

324
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: their internal lives is something that they have to do

325
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: to achieve this immortality.

326
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 2: Thirdly, they need children.

327
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: Howard didn't want to quote dirty the bloodline, so he

328
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 1: decided to have children with his sisters. Lately, though, the

329
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: women of the family have not been producing as many children,

330
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: and Howard, to Florence's chagrin, believes introducing new blood like

331
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 1: Catalina and Noemi, who are combatible with the fungus, is

332
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 1: the key to their survival. The visions Noemi has been

333
00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 1: experiencing are what they call the gloom, which is essentially

334
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: a hive mind or like that kind of spiderweb thing

335
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 1: that Catalina described in the letter at the top. Since

336
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: the mycilium is connected and bodies can serve as mulch

337
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,399
Speaker 1: for it, it has absorbed the memories of those before it,

338
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: and that means that Howard can transfer himself into a

339
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 1: younger body. It also kind of explains like the haunting

340
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of like these memories that you experience in

341
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: the Gloom. Francis tells Noami in Spanish that he will

342
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 1: help her gather supplies because again they don't understand Spanish,

343
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: and that the tincture disrupts the effects of the spores

344
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 1: but must be used sparingly. No amis hesitant to trust him,

345
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: also understandable, but agrees on the condition that he helped

346
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 1: rescue Catalina too, and later she also decides he should

347
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,400
Speaker 1: leave with them. Francis informs her that the fungus keeps

348
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: them from leaving, that that is what happened to his father,

349
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: Richard when he tried to escape.

350
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: That's how he ended up in that ditch.

351
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 1: She may be able to leave, but he is part

352
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 1: of the family as and much longer exposed to this fungus,

353
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: will not be able to But Miami does not give

354
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,719
Speaker 1: up and communicates with the women before her in the Gloom,

355
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 1: like through her dreams, to try to find a solution

356
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,119
Speaker 1: to this. Frances gives her the tincture and a razor

357
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: blade after she asks for a weapon. Noaimi attempts an escape,

358
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: but only makes it a few meters outside before the

359
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 1: house and the fungus makes it feel like she can't breathe.

360
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 1: Virgil carries her inside and humiliates and harasses her. She

361
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: is told she must marry Francis, who in turn instructs

362
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: her to play along. That their chance of escape will

363
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 1: be when Howard's body dies and he transfers his consciousness

364
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: into Virgil. That Ruth weakened all of them when she

365
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,959
Speaker 1: killed some of the family and attempted to kill Howard.

366
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, Ruth is one of the daughters who hated

367
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 4: the process.

368
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 3: I guess all the women kind of hated it, except

369
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 3: for Florence, correct from what I can gather, Like we

370
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 3: find out Agnes later on.

371
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,879
Speaker 2: I couldn't get a real read on Agnes.

372
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if she like willingly sacrificed herself or

373
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: unly sacrificed.

374
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: Yah are all important, But yes, the women were not happy.

375
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 3: Ruth was one of them that was very not happy

376
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 3: and tried to get out. Try to kill everybody did

377
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 3: not work. So all these things happened. Ruth was the voice,

378
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 3: by the way that said open your eyes. One of

379
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 3: the things that that was interesting. The pair Francis and

380
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 3: uh Nymi are married and they prepared to escape. However,

381
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 3: Francis is detained and Virgil reveals he drugged them and

382
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 3: makes clear he desires to make annoy Ami his Noami

383
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 3: fights him off, knocks him off, taking a sip of

384
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 3: some of the attentionure, and retrieving the razor. So all

385
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 3: this happened while Virgil was pretty much attacking and accosting her.

386
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 3: Catalina has them too, and they go to find Frances

387
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 3: only to discover his mother is coercing him to giving

388
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 3: his body to Howard, so it was always France's and

389
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 3: not Virgil.

390
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 4: Oh dear the plan.

391
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 3: Miami tries to stop him, and Florence attacks her, who

392
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 3: was really strong at this point, leading to Francis killing

393
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 3: her row. Catalina stabs Howard in the eye because she

394
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 3: comes awake and alive and starts stabbing the hell out

395
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 3: of him, and the trio flees into the mines and

396
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: tunnels as the house shudders around them, and they feel

397
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 3: the pain because Howard's in pain and Francis is struggling

398
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 3: under the influence of the fungus as well.

399
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: It's bad, Yeah, it's not good.

400
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: So they find Agnes's grave and Agnes is one of

401
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: the sisters, one of Howard's sisters that he that he married, Yes,

402
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: that he married. They find her grave and no Ami

403
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: realizes that she was sacrificed, buried alive so that the

404
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: fungus could have a human mind. And that's something Howard

405
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: like determined that it needed, was this human mind. And

406
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: she exists as a living, waking nightmare, a body to

407
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: grow spores out of so Howard can control his family

408
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: and others in their orbit.

409
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: No Amy tells her to open her eyes.

410
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: She tells Agnes to open her eyes, which, yeah, just

411
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: as she has heard in her visions. Virgil reveals that

412
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: he always intended for Howard to die and now wants

413
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: to truly take his place, because yeah, Virgil has just appeared,

414
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: and he wants to use Catalina and know Ami for

415
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: childreness like Howard. Catalina says Virgil in the eye, and

416
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: no Amy sets the body of Agnes on fire. All

417
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: the mushrooms start to burn and the trio scapes down

418
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: the mountain. They are cared for by the local doctor,

419
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: though Francis takes several days to wake. When he does,

420
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: he reveals he has a dream of high place and

421
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: better condition than ever, that he is locked in and

422
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: unable to escape its opulence. They also kind of question,

423
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: like if you burn mushrooms a lot of times mushrooms

424
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: grow better out of the ashes, which also gave me pokes.

425
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: It's like, oh but anyway, uh no. Amy tells him

426
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: it was just a dream and promises to take into

427
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: Mexico City where they can be together.

428
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 4: The end, it was ominous ending.

429
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, so I must ask, do you

430
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: know anything about Hillo series?

431
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: I don't. I think it's the ten part series, that's all.

432
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 4: Okay, So it's gonna be a limited series.

433
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: Are they going to try to open it up like

434
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: Game of Thrones and we're all gonna be disappointed?

435
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I don't think, so, okay,

436
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 2: just check it. But it was I mean, it was

437
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: definitely to me, it felt like it there was room

438
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: for a sequel, and this is the reason rogue.

439
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: So she did leave it open unless if they could

440
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: be haunted by this, as if there's going to be

441
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 3: a call for them, because there's also like the whole

442
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 3: legends that a lot of the miners were burned alive

443
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: on purpose or purposely killed let to die so they

444
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: could be fertilizer.

445
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: For those yeah mulch mulch they.

446
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: Were called yeah yeah, Okay, well just get into the themes.

447
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: Then, let's get into the themes.

448
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: One of the big themes, yes, is using women and

449
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: using the working class. So I wanted to start with

450
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: this quote. No Amy, like any good socialite, shopped at

451
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: the Palatio Derio, painted her lips with Elizabeth Arden lipstick,

452
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: owned a couple of very fine furs, spoke English with

453
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: remarkable ease courtesy of the nuns at the Monticeta, a

454
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: private school, of course, and was expected to devote her

455
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: time to the twin pursuits of leisure and husband hunting. Therefore,

456
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: to her, any pleasant activity must also involve the acquisition

457
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: of a spouse. That is, she should never have fun

458
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: for the sake of having fun, but only as a

459
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: way to obtain a husband, which would have been fine

460
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: and well if father had actually liked Hugo. But Hugo

461
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: is a mere junior architect, and Miami was expected to

462
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: aspire higher. So I want to include that because this

463
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: is right in the beginning. Hugo is this guy she's

464
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: attracted to. She's hanging out with this costume party in

465
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 1: the beginning, And I feel like this code is a

466
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: really good example of a lot of things we talked

467
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: about in persuasion. But you know this idea, you have

468
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: to get a husband, that's your whole goal. You have

469
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: to get a good husband of good standing. But this

470
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: was sort of this whole book was sort of the

471
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: like horror of that. This whole book was, Oh, Catalina

472
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: did that, and now she's trapped in this night like

473
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: living nightmare where she's basically just a just a shell

474
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: of her past self and someone to use for money

475
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: so that they can open their mind again.

476
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: And they're trying to do that to know am me

477
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: as well, and.

478
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: Also just someone used to create, pro create to get children.

479
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: This is like this whole statement of like, oh, you've

480
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: got to find a good husband, that's your whole point

481
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: in life. This book was like whoa, Okay, but look

482
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: at the horror right.

483
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: Well, also, you have to remember the reason she came. Yes,

484
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 3: she wanted to save Catalina, but the bargain was that

485
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: her father was going to let her go to the

486
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 3: university to continue to study in theothology. And the only

487
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: way she could do this was by doing this favor

488
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 3: and her mother was very disappointed and the fact that

489
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 3: she wanted to go and said the line that is,

490
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be a debutante to wife and anything

491
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: in between was a distraction from the true purpose.

492
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: So like, that's.

493
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 3: The entirety, Like even though yes, they're a little more normal,

494
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: I guess is the word, but like this at this point,

495
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: that's the whole purpose of women in Mexico. And she

496
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: was talking about the fact in the nineteen fifties Mexican

497
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: women were not even allowed to vote, so of course

498
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: this made sense. This is their livelihoods. But yeah, the

499
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: tragedy of it is holy crap. Look at what happens.

500
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 3: We become a who old trap and we become sacrificial to.

501
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: The patriarch, which is that conversation?

502
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 3: Ye, right, And this is the line girls were supposed

503
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 3: to follow a simple life cycle from debutante to wife

504
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: to study further when we mean to delay the cycle

505
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: to remain a chrysalis inside a cocoon. And yeah, exactly,

506
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: that's that line. She was not cool either way to

507
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 3: being just herself.

508
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think.

509
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: There was a part of me that when I was

510
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: reading it, like you never really get to see Catalina

511
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: before she's induced to this state.

512
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 2: But the way that annoying me to describes her as

513
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: she was a very vibrant woman, kind very kind like

514
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: she was a very just.

515
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Lively interesting person. And now you just see her and

516
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: she's in bed and kind of like a very shell

517
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: of herself. And no Amy, I felt was a very

518
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: I thought interesting hero. And I thought she was like, Oh,

519
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: she's funny, she's witty, she's charming, she's got these interest

520
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: and faults and all this stuff.

521
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: And I liked her a lot.

522
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: And then to see her like, again, I could be

523
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: reading way too deep into this, but to see her

524
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: kind of pulled into this marriage she did not want,

525
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: which is what happened to a lot of women. And

526
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: to hear you're going to be used for children and

527
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: that's it. To see her reduced to that was like, oh,

528
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: this is kind of what we were asking of women

529
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: a lot at this time in marriages. Was like, you

530
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: make yourself smaller, you reduce yourself, and you are secondary

531
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: to whatever.

532
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: The man, the head of the household needs.

533
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's another quote. Mister vascal Esos makes it very

534
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: clear that the unattractive will not procreate. Beauty attracts beauty

535
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: and begets beauty. It is a means of selection. You see,

536
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: I am offering you a compliment. So this is by

537
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: Howard and he's being all creepy, which is often all

538
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: the time, but that was throughout the book too. Is

539
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: kind of really reducing people to genetics. That's where this

540
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: whole idea of like superior and inferior and genetics comes in.

541
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: But it's just really grows. It's just really gross or.

542
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: To hear them talk that way, and to know that

543
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: this guy has lived a hundred years and is really

544
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: looking at it as just like, how can I prolong

545
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: my life in the life of my family?

546
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: How can you play a role in this right?

547
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: And the thing is like, I don't think it's just

548
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: even his family, it's just his life. So he just

549
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 3: needs to use the children for him to continue to live.

550
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: Which I thought was interesting too because I feel like

551
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: that's you know, we've talked about this before, but that

552
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: idea of your children being more a representative view than

553
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: actually something like you're you're more concerned about how they

554
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: represent you than themselves, And that was definitely shining through

555
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: in this in this book, because yeah, he.

556
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 3: You know, I just realized I thought Fences couldn't be

557
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: his next in line because that wasn't his kid. Yes,

558
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: it was his grandkid, but not his kid. I thought

559
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: it had to be his kid.

560
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: I think they thought so, but they were so desperate.

561
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 4: Oh so they because they didn't. Why didn't he use

562
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 4: Virgil just.

563
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: For because he liked Virgil better so.

564
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: Vert, but that was his actual kid.

565
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: Yes, but he wanted Virgil to like, he actually wanted

566
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: him to live and have his own life because he

567
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: was the quote better one. So Francis was more expendable.

568
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: So I'm going to try it with him, and if

569
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, then I'm sure they would have gone

570
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: for Virgil, which is why, probably why Virgil was like, no,

571
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to kill this guy.

572
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: Because yeah, if I remember correctly, it was never like

573
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: it had to be his kid or something.

574
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: I think they really tried to keep it very in

575
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: the blood, and this was there like, oh god, it's

576
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: not working.

577
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: We have to branch out because we're dying off desperate.

578
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: That was a sidetrack, yes, yes, but here's another quote

579
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: to underline this point. A woman's function is to preserve

580
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: the family line, and I think that that was throughout, Yes,

581
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: this idea, we need the women to have the children.

582
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: But after that, like that's all they're they're all, they're good.

583
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: And you see this suffering of Agnes especially which again,

584
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: as I said, I wasn't clear, and maybe it could

585
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: because I read this in one sitting because I was like, oooh,

586
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't clear. I felt like Agnes did agree to

587
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: sacrifice herself.

588
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: She was like, Okay, I'll do it.

589
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: But then after because essentially involved bearing her alive, right

590
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: and so in that she was in that process, she

591
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, maybe I didn't want this or maybe

592
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: I was wrong, but throm that the spores grow and

593
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: the mycilium grows, and so it's like her living nightmare.

594
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: But it's the pain of this one woman who was

595
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: keeping this whole thing alive.

596
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: And she's, yeah, she's having this nightmare.

597
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: It's really pretty disturbing and descriptive of when you finally

598
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: realize what's going on and how it describes her as

599
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: just this like trapped woman who is just in this

600
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: nightmare and that's her whole existence, and like to have

601
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: that woman's pain at the suffering of all of.

602
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: This, at the heart of all of this I think is.

603
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: Pretty telling about how we treat women. It's something we've

604
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: talked about a lot in our horror things about how

605
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: we'll just use women's pain for all kinds of things.

606
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: In this case, Yeah, and then something else is definitely

607
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: the suffering and expendability in the minds of this family

608
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: of the working class, because the servants are seen as

609
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: kind of like test cases for this fungus. Are either

610
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: they are husk like they are literally servants that are

611
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: living in the house that are just kind of hollowed

612
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: out and controlled by this fungus, and that is what

613
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: kind of props them up up. You got the miners, yeah,

614
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: who who are buried, So just using people in that

615
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: cool way and throwing them away. And then there was

616
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, especially in the beginning, because I

617
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: would say this book took a turn in the middle

618
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: about what you thought where it was going. Maybe you

619
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: knew it was ominous, but you weren't quite sure. But

620
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 1: there was a whole there's a whole lot of stuff

621
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: I noticed about women navigating men and social situations. So

622
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: here's a quote I wouldn't say demanding exactly concern, more

623
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: like she replied taking care to smile to show him

624
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: this was really a small matter that might be easily resolved,

625
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: and it must have worked for he nodded, And I

626
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: just remember reading that being like, so, yeah, this is

627
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: still we still talk about doing this stuff as women

628
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: of like you got to put on your smile, You

629
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: got to manage this man's anger and his expectations and whatever.

630
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: And you know, at first when she first gets there,

631
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: like you know, something's off, but she's still trying to

632
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: be and still trying to get what she wants by

633
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: managing these people. And you just see so many instances

634
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: of her having to deal with like real nonsense and

635
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: having this fear of what will happen if she doesn't placate.

636
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 3: Them, right, She definitely has to control her temper ayes. Yeah,

637
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: And then there's another quote. It bothered her to be

638
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 3: thought of poorly. She wanted to be light. Perhaps this

639
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: explained the parties, the crystalline laughter, the well croffed hair,

640
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 3: the rehearsed smile. She thought that men such as her

641
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: father could be stern, and men could be cold like Virgil,

642
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 3: but women need to be liked or they'd be in trouble.

643
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 3: A woman who is not light as a bitch, and

644
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 3: a bitch can hardly do anything. All avenues are close

645
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: to her.

646
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, but she she definitely had like an

647
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: inner war of She was very strong willed, so she

648
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: felt this, tried to do this, tried to into this,

649
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: all of these customs and expectations around her, but in

650
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: the end was ultimately like, no.

651
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: I need to see my cousin.

652
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: You're not listening to me, Like got fed up. But

653
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: I did think that that was interesting. And here's another quote.

654
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: Then you won't help me. You're afraid of them. Oh

655
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: and here I am without a friend in the world,

656
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: she said, clutching her purse and standing up slowly, her

657
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: lip quivering dramatically. Men always panicked when she did that,

658
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: afraid she'd cry. Men were always so afraid of tears,

659
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: of having a hysterical woman on their hands.

660
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 2: I just thought that was funny. She's clearly learned the game.

661
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: You're right, well, the woman hysterical woman has been had

662
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 3: been used again when they were trying to when she

663
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 3: was trying to talk about how do I get my

664
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: cousin AULI here, I think we're just too hysterically.

665
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I thought that was a really I

666
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: liked that twist where she has that moment of like,

667
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: maybe Catalina is perfectly same and there's something wrong in

668
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: the house.

669
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 4: Right, there is something wrong here.

670
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really really liked that. Yeah, just to note again,

671
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: I thought know Amy was a badass. If it's not clear,

672
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: I really liked her a lot. There was a lot

673
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: of stuff that we've talked about before in horror of

674
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: not believing women, dismissing women, gosslining women. Here's a quote

675
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: I want you to go know, Amy Virgil says, she's

676
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: been asking for you. She here being Catalina. Besides, I

677
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: think this is a matter that maybe best handled by

678
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: a woman. It might turn out that this is nothing

679
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: but exaggerations and marital trouble. It's not as if your

680
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: cousin hasn't had a tendency towards the melodramatic. It might

681
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: be employed for attention. In that case, Why would Catalina

682
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: is marital troubles or her melodrama concern us, she asked,

683
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: Though she didn't think it was fair that her fatherly

684
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: old Catalina melodramatic. She'd lost both of her parents at

685
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: a young age, one could expect a certain amount of

686
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: turmoil after that. So this is early in the book

687
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: where knowing Me and her father are talking about whether

688
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: or not knowing Me should go visit Catalina. And I

689
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: thought this was interesting where she's sort of immediately like

690
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: defensive of Catalina, like she's, oh, no, I agree, something's

691
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: going on here. I don't think she's being melodramatic, like

692
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to deal with it, but she

693
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: does become very productive of Catalina. She's a big defender

694
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: of Catalina. She won't leave her behind. So I did

695
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: like really seeing that where she was not ever like,

696
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: oh I think she has lost her mind or oh

697
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: I think she.

698
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 2: Was always always thinking, oh I remember how she was.

699
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: This does not match with how I remember her, and

700
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to just dismiss her. So I really

701
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: liked that, especially like the doctor. So the Doyles have

702
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: a doctor that they use who turns out to he

703
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: kind of like influenced by the fungus as well, and

704
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: he's so dismissive of Catalina and of no Amy.

705
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 4: He's he's a part of the family, Yes he is, but.

706
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: I feel like they kind of like don't treat him

707
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: that way, but yes he is.

708
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 3: No, yeah, he's like he's a descendant of them, so

709
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 3: therefore he creeps close to them.

710
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and he's incredibly dismissive. And you also see Virgil

711
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: laughing at Noami's suggestion of the psychiatrist, which was also

712
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: racist because yes, again this was that whole thread through

713
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 1: line with the Doyle family of like, oh, the vocals

714
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: could not possibly have like a therapist, that would be ridiculous.

715
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: And then like when you see the blurring of dreams

716
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: and reality and the gaslighting, because they knew what was

717
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: going on. They knew what was happening to know, Amy

718
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: Catalina went through the same thing. I don't think we

719
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: said it, but Catalina tried to get away too, and

720
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: just playing on like oh, you're sleepwalking again, or maybe

721
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 1: something's wrong with you, Oh maybe your stressed, like turning

722
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: it on her.

723
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: They also blamed her for catalina seizure, which had happened before,

724
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 3: and they, you know, did not relay that part at all.

725
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 3: They're like, wait, you knew this, and you're trying to

726
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 3: pretend like I did this on purpose, and then you

727
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 3: said it was op opioids and yeah, that was none

728
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: of that that doesn't you are every bit as the

729
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: gas lighter of the entirety of the thing, and they

730
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 3: bade her feel so guilty that she felt guilty and

731
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: therefore was like I almost killed my cousin.

732
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

733
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: They were very very effective at cas slighting, especially with

734
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: the dreams, because they would kind of try to get

735
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: her to admit to the dream and kind of succumb

736
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: to the dream, and when she wouldn't, they would be like, oh, no,

737
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: it was just a dream, even though she had a

738
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: real sense that it wasn't and she was right, but

739
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: they would just be like, oh, no, you walked into

740
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: my room. What There was also the idea which we

741
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: talked about before, of no Ami building off of the

742
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: work women have done the past. So she was able

743
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: to hear these other women like Ruth and later Agnes

744
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: and hear like what they went through, and they would

745
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: talk to her and try to give her advice as

746
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: the story progresses, and then no Ami is sort of

747
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: able to take that advice and use.

748
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: It for them.

749
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: And yes, as we said, feeding off a woman's pain,

750
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: because that's sort of what this whole thing was about, literally, yeah, yeah,

751
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: including eating children, yeah yeah, And then there was a

752
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: lot of weaponizing of sexuality, especially against na Amy from

753
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: what we see, a lot of using her desires against

754
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: her because she is which may have been planted, yes,

755
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: very much influenced by the fungus. But she was somebody

756
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: who likes, she likes dating, and she liked being with men.

757
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: If I'm remembering quickly, she had never actually had sex

758
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: because she was too worried about the reputation, what they

759
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: would say about her.

760
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: But she did like like that aspect, she.

761
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 3: Flirted, but then also she would lose interest after a

762
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: couple of days.

763
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

764
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 1: But Virgil in particular, you see him manipulating and dehumanizing her,

765
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: her harassing her, trying to make her feel certain ways.

766
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: Here's a quote another pretty Girl for his collection, which

767
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: is something that was said about Howard, I believe about Miami,

768
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: but kind of this idea of like, oh she's pretty,

769
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: let's bring her.

770
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: In, which yeah, because that's the whole Like if Francis

771
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 3: had been possessed by Howard, that would have made her him, yeah,

772
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 3: which was that intent. And then Virgil soon on talks

773
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 3: about how he was going to take her for himself essentially,

774
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: and then when Frances came to her rescue essentially or defense.

775
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 4: He was that we can share her.

776
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 3: Oh. I was like, oh yeah, no angry, no, no, yeah.

777
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: Just talking about her, Yeah, like she's an object. This

778
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: gross nasty. There was a lot of stuff about family

779
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: in here. We've already talked about a lot of it,

780
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: but yeah, I would recommend reading it for more because

781
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: it's sort of hard to break down. But I mean, essentially,

782
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: you've got this fungus family and the family and the

783
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: drama within and uh sort of the tears within of ideology.

784
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: And then you've got, as I said, know, Ami and

785
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: Catalina annoying me, really not giving up on on Catalina.

786
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: And then yes, there's a lot of stuff about eugenics

787
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: and racism, the superior inferior ideas, natural selection, immortality, there's incest,

788
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: good blood versus bad blood. There's wanting to use Catalina

789
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: no Ami for different sush heart of your blood, the

790
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: whole idea of uh no Ami and Francis speaking in

791
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: Spanish because they never bothered to learn Spanish, as.

792
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 4: In fact, it was almost forbidden yah, and that.

793
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: Is forbidden the house.

794
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: There's a lot of imagery around the snake eating its tail,

795
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: so like it's just a circle of this creature eating itself,

796
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: which is sort of what is going on here with

797
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: trying to keep this bloodline going. And it's all of

798
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: this is rooted in sexism, misogyny, racism, and colonialism, this

799
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: family and their immortality.

800
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 3: Yes, and they should be noted that they obviously the villains,

801
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 3: and this is the Englishman coming to Mexico to take

802
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 3: advantage of the silver mines which they've always made their

803
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 3: money in. Yes, that is bigger than a metaphor beally

804
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: more obvious.

805
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: I think so. And then I wanted to end on

806
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: the horror because this book is really very good, like

807
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: getting under your skin. It's really creepy. I really really

808
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, so I just want to include this quote

809
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: to close it out, so you kind of get a

810
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: taste of what's going on here. Next to Miami, the

811
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: wall had started to quiver, beating to the same rhythm

812
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: as a golden woman beneath her. The floorboards pulsed to

813
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: a heart alive and knowing the golden filaments that had

814
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: emerged together with the mushrooms, covered the wall like a

815
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: netting and continued to grow. She noticed then that the

816
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: woman's dress was not made of place, but was instead

817
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: woven with the same filaments. The woman raised a gloved

818
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: hand and pointed at Knowaimi. She opened her mouth, but

819
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 1: having no mouth, since her face was a golden blur,

820
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: no words came out. Noami had not felt scared, not

821
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: until now, but this the woman attempting to speak. It

822
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: made her indescribably afraid, a fear that traveled down her

823
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: spine to the soles of her feet, forcing Noami to

824
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: step back and press her hands against her lips. She

825
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: had no lips, and when she tried to take another

826
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: step back, she realized that her feet had fused to

827
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 1: the ground. The golden woman reached forward, reached toward her,

828
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: and held Noimi's face between her hands. The woman made

829
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: a noise like the crunching of leaves, like the dripping

830
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: of water onto a pond, like the buzzing of insects,

831
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: and the pitch black darkness, and Noimi wished to press

832
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 1: her hands against her ears, but she had no hands anymore.

833
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: Nimi opened her eyes, drenched in sweat. For a minute,

834
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: she didn't remember where she was, and then she recalled.

835
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: She had been invited to high place. She reached for

836
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: the glass of water she'd left it by the bedside

837
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: and almost knocked it down. She gulped down the whole

838
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: glass and then turned her head. The room was in shadows,

839
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: no light, golden or otherwise dotted the wall surface. Nevertheless,

840
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: she had an impulse to rise and run her hands

841
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: against the wall, as if to make sure there was

842
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: nothing strange lurking behind the wallpaper.

843
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: Ooh, I love it. I really really enjoyed it.

844
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 4: It was very good.

845
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 2: Yes, highly recommend great Halloween read.

846
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: Great all the time read uh to be honest, and

847
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: it's got a lot of going on that we didn't

848
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: even talk about.

849
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, check it out.

850
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: Uh if you're if you're interested and you haven't already,

851
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: And as always, we're looking for those recommendations for our

852
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: next book club. You can send those to us at

853
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: our email, which is Stephanie your mom Stuff at iHeartMedia

854
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

855
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I Ever told You.

856
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Chris do No,

857
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I

858
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: Never Told You. Perspection of I Heart Radio for more

859
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio check out that you Heart,

860
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: Are you Apple podcasts or if you listen to your

861
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: favorite shows