WEBVTT - James McMurtry 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Body Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:16.680 My guest today view James mcmurtane, who has a fantastic 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.040 new album, The Courses in the Hut. James, good to 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.880 have you on the podcast. I'm good to be here, Bob. Okay, 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.600 you're on the road touring now right, Um, yes, I'm 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.080 currently in Albuquerque. So what's it like being on the 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.279 road during this Delta era. That's a little different. I mean, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.760 this is a solo acoustic tour, but rather than staying 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.720 in hotels like we used to, or staying in airbnbs, 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.239 so we don't have to be in elevators and hotel lobbies. 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.720 And basically, you know, we find a central location and 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.040 just base out of there for a few days. So 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.920 you know, right now, we played Albuquerque last night, be 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:00.240 going up to Santa Fe today and coming back after show, 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.200 and then tomorrow go up to Taois and play a 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.199 show up there. And what kind of venues the two 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.479 show is, the Big Barn Dance and the kick Carson Park. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.679 All all of these shows on this run have been 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.959 outdoors except for Phoenix, and Phoenix was was a little 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:22.160 strange to start because I had I thought I had required, uh, 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.679 mask and facts only and they were checking backs cards. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.360 But you know, we looked out there right before the 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.240 show and nobody's got a mask on. So I talked 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.800 to the management and they said, well, we can hand 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.039 out masks, and said, well please, and so they did, 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:40.520 and all but two people masked up. And how do 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.200 you know the two people weren't you just saw him 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.840 in the audience. They the management told me about them. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.360 There was anything they could do at that point. It's Arizona. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.760 I don't really understand. Also, yeah, they weren't told when 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.320 they got there that they had to have mass on, 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:58.280 so I can kind of see. But it's very strange that, 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.520 you know that artists can't require safety protocols. And we 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.600 used to be able to require non smoking shows back 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.680 before smoking bands went into effect, and a lot of 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.119 promoters didn't like that because they wouldn't draw as well, 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.160 but eventually that became the norm. You know, you don't 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.360 see smoking shows much anymore, except in tobacco growing states. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.480 So how hesitant, if at all, were you to go 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:30.040 on the road? Quiet hesitant? And then I canceled everything 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.200 beyond Hoos. I was supposed to fly from Albuquerque to 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.240 Atlanta in a couple of days and getting the rent 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.320 car and go driving around the southeast and up as 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.919 far as actually up as far as Detroit and back around. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.040 But I couldn't get any of the venues to honor 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.679 my safety protocol, so we just dropped it. And your 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.680 safety protocol was vaccination and mask. Yes for indoor shows. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:55.760 I want to see you. I want I want to vaccinate, 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.520 vax cards and masks, you know, as much as you can. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.280 I mean, I so you gotta take them off to drink. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.800 But you know, I want everybody working against the virus. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.239 I don't want to feel like I'm out there working 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.639 for the virus, drawing people together where they're going to 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.480 get infected. And you know it. Austin opened back up 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.919 a few months ago, and immediately we started getting breakthrough 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:24.000 cases among musicians, mostly because they'd be inside in these 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.280 little clubs and you know, a crowd of people, some 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.880 of them vaccinated, some of them not. And if you're 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.680 a singer or a drummer or in some bands, anybody, 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.600 any musician, you're breathing down to your toes. If there's 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.960 any you know, a viral load out there, you're gonna 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.160 catch quite a bit of it. And you know the vaccines, 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.120 don't you know, they're not a hundred percent protection against 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.040 contracting the virus. They tend to keep you out of 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:52.160 the hospital, you know all that. Most of the musicians 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.880 I know that that contracted COVID. You know, they had 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:03.280 mild cases, uh meaning weren't hospitalized. But the problem is, 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.400 you know, the crowd spreads it amongst themselves, and maybe 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.920 they're vaccinated and they get my old cases, but they 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.720 take it home to their kids who can't get vaccinated. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.840 And now you know, we're seeing kids in I see you, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.359 especially in Texas where they don't allow mask mandates. You know, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.880 Houston has something like fifty kids. And I see you, 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.719 and the whole state's running out. I see you, Beds Now. 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.159 You live in the Austin area, right, I live in Lockhart, third, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.320 thirty miles due south of the Austin Airport. I haven't 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.400 been there. What's Lockhart like? Well? And this pretty cool 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.800 little town. I mean ten years ago it was a 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.680 kind of a dried up farming town, you know, boarded 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:46.200 up storefronts on the square and you know, mostly agricultural base. 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.640 And that they got a new guy on the Chamber 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.840 of Commerce, and they wanted to revitalize the town and 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.680 he told them, well, first thing you need to do 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.280 is start issuing liquor licenses. You can't be a dry 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.840 county anymore. And expected right, and so they did. So, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:03.880 you know, a lot of young people started moving down 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.960 from Austin because they couldn't afford it anymore. And they're 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.320 starting businesses. There's you know, cafes and bars with sidewalk service, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.880 that sort of thing, and it's kind of it's starting 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.680 to thrive. It's and it's interesting how you know, the 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.840 locals that have been there a long time, they they 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.480 kind of accepted us because you know, they have an 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.760 economy now. And how long have you lived there? I 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.880 moved there in twenty nineteen, February of twenty nineteen. So 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.159 you moved as part of this arts exodus? Shall we say? Well? Yeah, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:42.320 my my landlords passed away a while back and their 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.080 errors finally got the place out of probate and they 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:46.880 offered it to me. I was runing. I was actually 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.720 running both sides of a duplex because I figured out 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.520 I could write off one side for rehearsal and storage, 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.280 and it worked pretty well, but you know, there was 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.599 no way I could buy it. You know, the ground 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.040 under it was worth three fifty grand and the building 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.880 itself was a tear down. So how am gonna get 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.320 financing for that? You need a developer with a pile 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.159 of cash if you're going to sell something like that. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.000 But they were nice, they didn't They didn't run me out. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.520 They gave me time to get my act together and 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.400 find a place I could buy. So you own in Lockhart? 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.000 I own in Lockhart? Yeah, what kind of place you go? 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.039 That's just a little house in a little subdivision that 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.280 sticks down between a grain field or maze field rather 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.200 and a couple of pastures. And uh, it's actually across 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.599 the pasture from the Lockhart Airport where they do flight training, 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.800 and there's a Cessna plane that circles around all day. 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.800 We call it the Incessant Cessna. It took a little 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.599 while to get used to, but it's just part of 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:50.360 life now. So how big a house? How much property? Oh? 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.400 Virtually no property? I think you know, quarter acre, lot 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.880 um square feet something like that. Well, you know, I 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.640 always wonder I'm a lead night person and wherever whenever 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.640 I live close to people. I always upset them. I'm 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.839 up too late, the music is too loud. Have you 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.040 encountered any of those issues? No, Um, we're pretty quiet. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.040 I don't. I don't, you know, I don't. I don't 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.080 crank up an app at home very much. I do 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.480 that in rehearsal spaces. So so far, I haven't. They 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.520 only I did to annoy him. My neighbors, because when 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.880 I first moved down, there had five cats and they're 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.120 all outdoor casts. We had to cage them up for 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.160 a while, and they had been feral cats, but they 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:31.800 sort of moved in and we got them fixed and 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.800 all we're down to three. I'm not sure what predators. 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.080 And I think an awl got the last one because 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.600 I found al feathers across the street, and I don't 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:43.880 know what got that other one. The coyotes don't come 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.760 into into the neighborhood like they will in an urban 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.640 area because you know, rural coyotes get shot at. They 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.760 like to stay away from dogs and people. When you 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.280 say we who's living in the house with my girlfriend Kelly? 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.840 And I know you've been married this lady. How long 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:06.000 have you been involved with her? Twenty one years? Twenty years. Yeah, 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.720 twenty years. You lie. Now, I've been involved with my 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:14.000 girlfriend for sixteen years and I'm not married. Why are 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:19.840 you not married? Huh? Didn't we just I don't know 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.200 that's that important to us, and it would mess with 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:28.400 her Obamacare. Okay, you talked about living in Lockhart. You 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.240 say you don't rehearse there. Where do you rehearse San Marcus? 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.800 As I say, I'm Texas ignorant, we're San Sant Marcus 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.199 is about eighteen miles east of Lockhart, and there's a 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.720 good rehearsal facility for good rate. And my band is 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.160 scattered around in several different directions, and San Marcus is 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.400 fairly essential to all of us. So that's where we go. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.280 And just plotting in my mind where San Marcos relative 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:56.000 to Austin due south, well, a little bit south and 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.520 a little bit west. Keep forgetting I thirty five kind 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.800 of runs at an angle through there. But okay, now 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.800 you say you're doing this acoustic tour, can you talk 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.560 about your band? How many you are on the road 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.440 right now? That's just me and a tour manager right now, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:15.560 right So when you're on the road alone, you're being members. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.320 They're only getting paid when they're on the road with you. Well, yeah, 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.720 they all they're they're pretty good carpenters. Okay, have you 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.720 ever had to have a second gig since you've had 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.800 your first record deal? So it has worked out for you. So, 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.960 you know, Texas is in the news like crazy, and 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.400 I realized Austin is like the hippest part of Texas. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.720 What's it like living in Texas? Now? Texas is pretty crazy. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.400 You see a lot of Trump signs, a lot of 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.079 don't tread on me signs, and they're always on the 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.160 the richest looking ranches I ever see. They've got these 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:53.280 big ornate you know, sheet iron gates with with always 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.360 have the word ranching, and then they usually have figurines 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.559 of cowboys open to something and and the cattle look 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.200 like four h calves, you know, they look like they've 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.640 been manicured. And then you'll have this don't tread on 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.680 me sign and you want to go, you know that 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.920 yellow flag with a put the rattlesnake on it, and 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:13.320 you just you want to go knock on the door 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.640 and say, who's treading on you? Like you're doing just fine? 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.760 And those are all over the countryside out there, and 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.240 you know, we keep hearing that Texas could go blue. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.640 I have a friend to listen for worth it says 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.040 that's never gonna happen. From your viewpoint, what's going on? 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.800 It should numeric numerically. But the thing is the Republicans 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.960 have jerrymandered those districts for so long. And when I 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.400 lived when I last lived in Austin, I lived in 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.920 what was called the the Fajita District because it snaked 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:46.840 its way from South Austin down through Beville and Kennedy 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.920 all the way to the Rio Grand Valley, snaking us 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.560 way through Republican strongholds, and Austin was cut up into 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.320 a kaleidoscope like that just to keep us old hippies 0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:00.480 from having any cloud electorally. So, you know, we read 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.199 about Abbott, we read about the abortion law, we read 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.800 about the voting laws. Is it just going to continue 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.920 to go in that direction or is something going to change? Well, 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.400 I can't predict the future. Um they're gonna try to 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.920 keep it going in that direction. They're trying to turn 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.600 the clock back to their version of the fifties, which 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.800 which means uh, segregation and women have no rights. The 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:24.559 part of the fifties that they don't want is the 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:31.079 sevent tax bracket. So if you're in Austin, is it 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.200 like a bubble even though the state government is there where? 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:37.600 Does this affect all walks of life and everybody's life 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.520 in Texas? It's kind of a bubble. But I don't 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.080 really I don't go into Austin much anymore because Austin 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.240 it's turned into some version of California. I think we 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:52.080 got all this high rise, multi use UH structure is 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.439 going in and valet parking everywhere, and I don't recognize 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.920 it even from two years ago. But Austin is known 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.319 is a legendary nightlife music town. Is that an accurate description? 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.480 It was accurate until about maybe five years ago. Now 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:12.319 it's Disneyland basically. Can you amplify that a little bit? Well, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.839 I mean it used to be you playing clubs and 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.560 you get music aficionados coming in to see you. Now 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.440 you get tourists coming in, sometimes on buses. They'll get 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.680 off the bus and have a bunch of drinks and 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.800 stand in front of the stage taking selfies and then 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.079 get back on the bus. It's not about being there 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.480 and experiencing anything. It's about saying you've been there. So 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.079 if you're starting out musician's lost in a good place 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.800 to be. It's a little expensive for a starting out 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.720 musician now. I think the way the reason it became 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.600 a kind of a music mecca is because the cost 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.880 of living was so low for so long. But it's 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.120 not that way anymore. One might ask the question, why 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.439 live in Texas? What's the appeal? Well, I still live 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.840 there because my band lives there and my girlfriend works there, 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.280 and that's just just where I live. I don't know 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.000 that I would move here now, and I moved to 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.679 Texas right now. What does your girlfriend do for living? 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.599 She tends bar And you have a son. Where is 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.680 your son presently living? He lives in uh Oak Hill 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:21.040 over on the west side of Austin, Okay. So you 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.240 have a new album, you're not on a rigid schedule. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.560 Why a new album now? That's just when it happened 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.800 to finally come out. We made this record and we 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:36.840 tracked it in June of twenty nineteen with Ross Hogarth producing, 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:41.040 and and he's pretty busy, and that was pretty busy 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.280 touring then, and so we after the tracking, we had 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.920 to juggle our schedules to try to get the overdubs done. 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.800 That took about the rest of the year. We were 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.600 just about to finish up keyboards when California shut down 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.439 and then the rest of the country shut down, and 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.480 so we had to do keyboard over to his kind 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.920 of piecemeal, with various different musicians and different locations. I 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.640 did a couple of sessions with Buck Allen in Texas, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.120 and Ross had some guys that were emailing tracks in 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.520 and so he finally got it all assembled and mixed 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:21.560 this past year. And I don't remember what one the 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.920 August release date came about, but that's just that's what 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:29.520 the label decided on and and now it's out. Okay, 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.480 did you make the album already have a having a 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.400 record deal in place? Whould you cut first and then 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.680 shop for a deal? Oh? No, I had a deal 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:44.160 with New West Records. Um Logan Rogers, he owns a 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.400 label called Lightning Rod. He did a couple of my records, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.320 and before that he was with Compoti Records and they 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.360 did a couple of records. So I knew Logan. He's 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.040 now a VP at New West, so he was kind 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.560 of the key man on the contract. So you have 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.760 a deal with them, they pay for the record. In 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.920 today's marketplace, which is so different from when you started out, 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.200 What is your label doing to get the word out? Well, 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.640 I assume they're doing plenty of ads and they got 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.680 al Moss working at the radio, so they seem to 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:18.800 be doing a good job. Where I think we're number 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.400 three Americana this week. So you know, you started out 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.720 on a major label. As they say, the landscape change 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.280 irrelevant of your career. You put out a record today, 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.240 an album today. What are your personal expectations? What do 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.760 you want? Well, what I want is to to get 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.200 people in the clubs. And then when we when I 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.680 started out making records on a major label, the business 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.080 model was you put the record out and you tour 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.360 to support record sales, and the hopes that you would 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.800 sell enough records to recoup your cost and are enough 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.080 royalties that you can make a living off the record. Well, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.000 you know, and that didn't work for me. I didn't 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.000 sell near enough records. But I did get a foot 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.920 hold in the touring business and learned how to tour 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.560 pretty cheap, so I can actually profit on the road. Well. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.680 As the business evolved or devolved, however you want to 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.440 look at it. You know, Napster and Spotify came along. 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:18.360 Suddenly nobody's making any artists royalties off records. Everybody's having 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.880 to scramble down the road. So at that point, everybody 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.200 else was doing what we've already been doing. Um so 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.720 we look at, you know, as at a record. A 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.880 record is is a piece of art, but it's also 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.200 a piece of advertising. We put a record out, I 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:35.800 get to talk to you, I get to talk to 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.160 all kinds of journalists. I get local press. When I'm 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.080 coming to a town to play a gig, and people 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.200 will know I'm coming and they might buy a ticket. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.240 That's what I'm looking for in a record. Okay, before COVID, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.280 and it's insanity, how many dates a year were you doing. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.360 I was out about half the year, and when we 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.080 were home, we had a weekend gigs and regular gig 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.040 at the Continental Club on Wednesdays. I also had a 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:06.080 regular solo thing, so we're pretty busy. Well the same 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.480 since then. I had to learn to stream, so now 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.520 I do a couple of live streams a week, and 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.240 and it was it was pretty good money at first, 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.680 and then everybody's unemployment ran out and they don't tip 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:22.040 quite so high, but but they're still pretty generous and loyal. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.080 So I've been very lucky with the people out there. 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.040 So how frequently were you doing the live streams twice 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.800 a week, once on Wednesdays and once on Sundays And 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:36.240 what platform were you using? I use Facebook and YouTube 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.480 and Twitch. For a while, I was just using Facebook. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.280 I usually have like two fifty a week or to 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.080 fifty per show. At first it was somewhat more than that, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.199 and then I guess everybody got bored with my mercury. 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.919 I don't know, but it's boiled down to, you know, 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:58.159 two fifty loyal fans and from different places. You know, 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.720 Wednesday night I do at at pm Central and then 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.600 Sundays I do it one pm Central because that way 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.520 I still get I get the Europeans that are still awake, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.400 and I get the Californias they're just getting up. So 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.119 you have to thank globally on the net. And do 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.440 you think it's the same Twitter and fifty people every 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.399 gig where there's a certain number of die hards, a 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.359 bunch of them, because well yeah, because you see their 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.679 handles on Facebook scroll I use I use re stream, 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:36.000 which goes multi format, so it goes out to UH, Facebook, YouTube, 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:41.159 and Twitch. Twitch has the best technical aspects, best audio, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.760 best video, and about two listeners. We're getting another we're 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.680 getting more unstable internet. UM YouTube has pretty good video, 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.760 pretty good audio. But Facebook remains the most popular. I 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.199 think it's because the interactive nature of it. People like 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.760 to get together and shot amongst themselves. So if you're 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.680 doing two shows a week on a presentation level, how 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:10.520 do you decide what material to play? I try not 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:15.400 to repeat UH songs more than you know every third 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.119 or fourth show. So I just asked kind of rotate 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.520 through my material, and I generally do one cover song 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.560 per show, usually one that I've never played before. I 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.879 just started surfing the internet and trying to jog my memory. 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.639 So what are some of the cover songs you've played? 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:42.359 I did Garden Party one time. That was interesting. I 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.760 wasn't and I was like that. Sometimes I'll pull up 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.280 hits that I remember when I was, you know, fourteen 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.520 or fifteen, UM, please come to Boston. I really like 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.720 doing that. You've done so many of these, You've learned 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.280 what works most when you play the well known songs 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.240 or when you tell stories. Yeah, what works for your audience. Well, 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.240 depending on a live show, I don't talk so much. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.560 But on the Internet you have to. You have to 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.760 sort of be kind of twisted, Mr Rogers, because you 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.840 gotta tune these guitars, and everybody's right up in your face. 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.000 They can they can see you, they can see your thoughts. 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.959 So you gotta keep something going, some kind of pattern. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.359 But there's just some of the old songs that they 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.280 really like. They always like Choctaw Bingo level Land, Painting 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:40.560 by Numbers, that kind of thing. So do you personally 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.359 know a lot of these hardcore fans or do you 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.760 keep him at arms length? Uh? No, I don't know 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:50.320 very many fans in general, and I don't do like 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.119 I don't interact on Facebook. I don't do Facebook unless 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.639 I'm streaming. Um. There was a little while where I 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.679 kind of got drawn into the culture, and I just 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.760 don't like that. I don't like to worry about it. 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.680 I'll put my show out there and every now and 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:08.280 then I'll post something just to see if I can 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.680 get a feeding frenzy going, because for a while there, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.760 you you know, you get all kinds of trolls. That 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:19.040 was fun. To watch. But if I'm mad enough, I'll 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.720 post something. But I don't ever look at the comments anymore. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.879 I just, you know, I don't worry about what they 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.560 think that much. But you're a guy who was not 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.080 speaking in bland statements, and there's a lot of personal 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:37.800 stuff and therefore bonds fans to you. And I'm wondering 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.720 if one of the reasons you might keep fans in 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.520 arms lengthens, you might have had some bad experiences. By 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.400 the flip side, there's a lot of acts that depend 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.160 on their fans to get the word out. They literally 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:54.800 stay at their houses. Where are you in that game? Well, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.359 I don't. I don't stay at private residences on the road. 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.280 And I'm just a little too old to be that accessible, because, uh, 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.600 you know, when I was starting out and making records, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.320 we were still in the business of selling exclusivity and 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:14.840 myth and it's more fun to sell that than than 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:21.240 than accessibility. I don't you know, I've gotten. I got 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.400 where I didn't want to go to the merch table anymore. 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.399 For for a while there, I had to because we 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.120 had to make little extra money and and my drummers 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:30.840 in the T shirt business. I wanted him to make 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:32.359 a little extra money, And so I'd go out there 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.520 and signed stuff I found that. You know, after you 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.480 drive all day and then you check in a hotel, 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:42.640 you take an hour off, you go load in, then 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.320 you sound check, then you do a show, then you 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.679 go out and try to talk to people, and you 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.720 just don't have anything left but meanness, so quite off, 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.560 and I'd get in a practice with a fan, you know, 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.639 or you know, or I just let him know what 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.520 an asshole I was. You don't want to let them 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.359 know that. You want to keep them in the dark 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:06.040 on that. And so it was better if I don't 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.840 go near the merch table and sign stuff because one thing, 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.159