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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Body Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today view James mcmurtane, who has a fantastic

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Speaker 1: new album, The Courses in the Hut. James, good to

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Speaker 1: have you on the podcast. I'm good to be here, Bob. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're on the road touring now right, Um, yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: currently in Albuquerque. So what's it like being on the

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Speaker 1: road during this Delta era. That's a little different. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a solo acoustic tour, but rather than staying

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Speaker 1: in hotels like we used to, or staying in airbnbs,

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Speaker 1: so we don't have to be in elevators and hotel lobbies.

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Speaker 1: And basically, you know, we find a central location and

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Speaker 1: just base out of there for a few days. So

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Speaker 1: you know, right now, we played Albuquerque last night, be

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Speaker 1: going up to Santa Fe today and coming back after show,

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Speaker 1: and then tomorrow go up to Taois and play a

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Speaker 1: show up there. And what kind of venues the two

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Speaker 1: show is, the Big Barn Dance and the kick Carson Park.

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Speaker 1: All all of these shows on this run have been

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Speaker 1: outdoors except for Phoenix, and Phoenix was was a little

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Speaker 1: strange to start because I had I thought I had required, uh,

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Speaker 1: mask and facts only and they were checking backs cards.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we looked out there right before the

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Speaker 1: show and nobody's got a mask on. So I talked

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Speaker 1: to the management and they said, well, we can hand

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Speaker 1: out masks, and said, well please, and so they did,

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Speaker 1: and all but two people masked up. And how do

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Speaker 1: you know the two people weren't you just saw him

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Speaker 1: in the audience. They the management told me about them.

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Speaker 1: There was anything they could do at that point. It's Arizona.

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Speaker 1: I don't really understand. Also, yeah, they weren't told when

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Speaker 1: they got there that they had to have mass on,

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Speaker 1: so I can kind of see. But it's very strange that,

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Speaker 1: you know that artists can't require safety protocols. And we

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Speaker 1: used to be able to require non smoking shows back

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Speaker 1: before smoking bands went into effect, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: promoters didn't like that because they wouldn't draw as well,

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Speaker 1: but eventually that became the norm. You know, you don't

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Speaker 1: see smoking shows much anymore, except in tobacco growing states.

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Speaker 1: So how hesitant, if at all, were you to go

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Speaker 1: on the road? Quiet hesitant? And then I canceled everything

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Speaker 1: beyond Hoos. I was supposed to fly from Albuquerque to

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Speaker 1: Atlanta in a couple of days and getting the rent

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Speaker 1: car and go driving around the southeast and up as

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Speaker 1: far as actually up as far as Detroit and back around.

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Speaker 1: But I couldn't get any of the venues to honor

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Speaker 1: my safety protocol, so we just dropped it. And your

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Speaker 1: safety protocol was vaccination and mask. Yes for indoor shows.

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Speaker 1: I want to see you. I want I want to vaccinate,

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Speaker 1: vax cards and masks, you know, as much as you can.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I so you gotta take them off to drink.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I want everybody working against the virus.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to feel like I'm out there working

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Speaker 1: for the virus, drawing people together where they're going to

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Speaker 1: get infected. And you know it. Austin opened back up

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Speaker 1: a few months ago, and immediately we started getting breakthrough

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Speaker 1: cases among musicians, mostly because they'd be inside in these

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Speaker 1: little clubs and you know, a crowd of people, some

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Speaker 1: of them vaccinated, some of them not. And if you're

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Speaker 1: a singer or a drummer or in some bands, anybody,

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Speaker 1: any musician, you're breathing down to your toes. If there's

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Speaker 1: any you know, a viral load out there, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: catch quite a bit of it. And you know the vaccines,

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Speaker 1: don't you know, they're not a hundred percent protection against

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Speaker 1: contracting the virus. They tend to keep you out of

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Speaker 1: the hospital, you know all that. Most of the musicians

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Speaker 1: I know that that contracted COVID. You know, they had

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Speaker 1: mild cases, uh meaning weren't hospitalized. But the problem is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the crowd spreads it amongst themselves, and maybe

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Speaker 1: they're vaccinated and they get my old cases, but they

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Speaker 1: take it home to their kids who can't get vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: And now you know, we're seeing kids in I see you,

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Speaker 1: especially in Texas where they don't allow mask mandates. You know,

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Speaker 1: Houston has something like fifty kids. And I see you,

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Speaker 1: and the whole state's running out. I see you, Beds Now.

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Speaker 1: You live in the Austin area, right, I live in Lockhart, third,

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Speaker 1: thirty miles due south of the Austin Airport. I haven't

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Speaker 1: been there. What's Lockhart like? Well? And this pretty cool

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Speaker 1: little town. I mean ten years ago it was a

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Speaker 1: kind of a dried up farming town, you know, boarded

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Speaker 1: up storefronts on the square and you know, mostly agricultural base.

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Speaker 1: And that they got a new guy on the Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce, and they wanted to revitalize the town and

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Speaker 1: he told them, well, first thing you need to do

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Speaker 1: is start issuing liquor licenses. You can't be a dry

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Speaker 1: county anymore. And expected right, and so they did. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of young people started moving down

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Speaker 1: from Austin because they couldn't afford it anymore. And they're

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Speaker 1: starting businesses. There's you know, cafes and bars with sidewalk service,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and it's kind of it's starting

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Speaker 1: to thrive. It's and it's interesting how you know, the

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Speaker 1: locals that have been there a long time, they they

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Speaker 1: kind of accepted us because you know, they have an

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Speaker 1: economy now. And how long have you lived there? I

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Speaker 1: moved there in twenty nineteen, February of twenty nineteen. So

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Speaker 1: you moved as part of this arts exodus? Shall we say? Well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my my landlords passed away a while back and their

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Speaker 1: errors finally got the place out of probate and they

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Speaker 1: offered it to me. I was runing. I was actually

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Speaker 1: running both sides of a duplex because I figured out

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Speaker 1: I could write off one side for rehearsal and storage,

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Speaker 1: and it worked pretty well, but you know, there was

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Speaker 1: no way I could buy it. You know, the ground

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Speaker 1: under it was worth three fifty grand and the building

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Speaker 1: itself was a tear down. So how am gonna get

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Speaker 1: financing for that? You need a developer with a pile

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Speaker 1: of cash if you're going to sell something like that.

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Speaker 1: But they were nice, they didn't They didn't run me out.

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Speaker 1: They gave me time to get my act together and

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Speaker 1: find a place I could buy. So you own in Lockhart?

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Speaker 1: I own in Lockhart? Yeah, what kind of place you go?

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Speaker 1: That's just a little house in a little subdivision that

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Speaker 1: sticks down between a grain field or maze field rather

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Speaker 1: and a couple of pastures. And uh, it's actually across

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Speaker 1: the pasture from the Lockhart Airport where they do flight training,

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Speaker 1: and there's a Cessna plane that circles around all day.

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Speaker 1: We call it the Incessant Cessna. It took a little

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Speaker 1: while to get used to, but it's just part of

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Speaker 1: life now. So how big a house? How much property? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Virtually no property? I think you know, quarter acre, lot

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Speaker 1: um square feet something like that. Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: always wonder I'm a lead night person and wherever whenever

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Speaker 1: I live close to people. I always upset them. I'm

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Speaker 1: up too late, the music is too loud. Have you

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Speaker 1: encountered any of those issues? No, Um, we're pretty quiet.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't, you know, I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: crank up an app at home very much. I do

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Speaker 1: that in rehearsal spaces. So so far, I haven't. They

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Speaker 1: only I did to annoy him. My neighbors, because when

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Speaker 1: I first moved down, there had five cats and they're

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Speaker 1: all outdoor casts. We had to cage them up for

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Speaker 1: a while, and they had been feral cats, but they

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Speaker 1: sort of moved in and we got them fixed and

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Speaker 1: all we're down to three. I'm not sure what predators.

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Speaker 1: And I think an awl got the last one because

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Speaker 1: I found al feathers across the street, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what got that other one. The coyotes don't come

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Speaker 1: into into the neighborhood like they will in an urban

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Speaker 1: area because you know, rural coyotes get shot at. They

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Speaker 1: like to stay away from dogs and people. When you

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Speaker 1: say we who's living in the house with my girlfriend Kelly?

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Speaker 1: And I know you've been married this lady. How long

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Speaker 1: have you been involved with her? Twenty one years? Twenty years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: twenty years. You lie. Now, I've been involved with my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend for sixteen years and I'm not married. Why are

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Speaker 1: you not married? Huh? Didn't we just I don't know

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Speaker 1: that's that important to us, and it would mess with

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Speaker 1: her Obamacare. Okay, you talked about living in Lockhart. You

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Speaker 1: say you don't rehearse there. Where do you rehearse San Marcus?

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Speaker 1: As I say, I'm Texas ignorant, we're San Sant Marcus

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Speaker 1: is about eighteen miles east of Lockhart, and there's a

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Speaker 1: good rehearsal facility for good rate. And my band is

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Speaker 1: scattered around in several different directions, and San Marcus is

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Speaker 1: fairly essential to all of us. So that's where we go.

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Speaker 1: And just plotting in my mind where San Marcos relative

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Speaker 1: to Austin due south, well, a little bit south and

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Speaker 1: a little bit west. Keep forgetting I thirty five kind

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Speaker 1: of runs at an angle through there. But okay, now

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Speaker 1: you say you're doing this acoustic tour, can you talk

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Speaker 1: about your band? How many you are on the road

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Speaker 1: right now? That's just me and a tour manager right now,

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Speaker 1: right So when you're on the road alone, you're being members.

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Speaker 1: They're only getting paid when they're on the road with you. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they all they're they're pretty good carpenters. Okay, have you

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Speaker 1: ever had to have a second gig since you've had

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Speaker 1: your first record deal? So it has worked out for you. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, Texas is in the news like crazy, and

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Speaker 1: I realized Austin is like the hippest part of Texas.

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Speaker 1: What's it like living in Texas? Now? Texas is pretty crazy.

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Speaker 1: You see a lot of Trump signs, a lot of

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Speaker 1: don't tread on me signs, and they're always on the

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Speaker 1: the richest looking ranches I ever see. They've got these

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Speaker 1: big ornate you know, sheet iron gates with with always

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Speaker 1: have the word ranching, and then they usually have figurines

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Speaker 1: of cowboys open to something and and the cattle look

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Speaker 1: like four h calves, you know, they look like they've

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Speaker 1: been manicured. And then you'll have this don't tread on

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Speaker 1: me sign and you want to go, you know that

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Speaker 1: yellow flag with a put the rattlesnake on it, and

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Speaker 1: you just you want to go knock on the door

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Speaker 1: and say, who's treading on you? Like you're doing just fine?

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Speaker 1: And those are all over the countryside out there, and

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Speaker 1: you know, we keep hearing that Texas could go blue.

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Speaker 1: I have a friend to listen for worth it says

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Speaker 1: that's never gonna happen. From your viewpoint, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: It should numeric numerically. But the thing is the Republicans

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Speaker 1: have jerrymandered those districts for so long. And when I

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Speaker 1: lived when I last lived in Austin, I lived in

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Speaker 1: what was called the the Fajita District because it snaked

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Speaker 1: its way from South Austin down through Beville and Kennedy

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Speaker 1: all the way to the Rio Grand Valley, snaking us

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Speaker 1: way through Republican strongholds, and Austin was cut up into

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Speaker 1: a kaleidoscope like that just to keep us old hippies

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Speaker 1: from having any cloud electorally. So, you know, we read

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Speaker 1: about Abbott, we read about the abortion law, we read

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Speaker 1: about the voting laws. Is it just going to continue

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Speaker 1: to go in that direction or is something going to change? Well,

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Speaker 1: I can't predict the future. Um they're gonna try to

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Speaker 1: keep it going in that direction. They're trying to turn

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Speaker 1: the clock back to their version of the fifties, which

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Speaker 1: which means uh, segregation and women have no rights. The

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Speaker 1: part of the fifties that they don't want is the

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Speaker 1: sevent tax bracket. So if you're in Austin, is it

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Speaker 1: like a bubble even though the state government is there where?

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Speaker 1: Does this affect all walks of life and everybody's life

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Speaker 1: in Texas? It's kind of a bubble. But I don't

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Speaker 1: really I don't go into Austin much anymore because Austin

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Speaker 1: it's turned into some version of California. I think we

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Speaker 1: got all this high rise, multi use UH structure is

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Speaker 1: going in and valet parking everywhere, and I don't recognize

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Speaker 1: it even from two years ago. But Austin is known

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Speaker 1: is a legendary nightlife music town. Is that an accurate description?

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Speaker 1: It was accurate until about maybe five years ago. Now

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Speaker 1: it's Disneyland basically. Can you amplify that a little bit? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it used to be you playing clubs and

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Speaker 1: you get music aficionados coming in to see you. Now

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Speaker 1: you get tourists coming in, sometimes on buses. They'll get

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Speaker 1: off the bus and have a bunch of drinks and

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Speaker 1: stand in front of the stage taking selfies and then

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Speaker 1: get back on the bus. It's not about being there

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Speaker 1: and experiencing anything. It's about saying you've been there. So

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Speaker 1: if you're starting out musician's lost in a good place

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Speaker 1: to be. It's a little expensive for a starting out

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Speaker 1: musician now. I think the way the reason it became

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Speaker 1: a kind of a music mecca is because the cost

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Speaker 1: of living was so low for so long. But it's

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Speaker 1: not that way anymore. One might ask the question, why

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Speaker 1: live in Texas? What's the appeal? Well, I still live

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Speaker 1: there because my band lives there and my girlfriend works there,

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Speaker 1: and that's just just where I live. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I would move here now, and I moved to

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Speaker 1: Texas right now. What does your girlfriend do for living?

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Speaker 1: She tends bar And you have a son. Where is

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Speaker 1: your son presently living? He lives in uh Oak Hill

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Speaker 1: over on the west side of Austin, Okay. So you

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Speaker 1: have a new album, you're not on a rigid schedule.

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Speaker 1: Why a new album now? That's just when it happened

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Speaker 1: to finally come out. We made this record and we

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Speaker 1: tracked it in June of twenty nineteen with Ross Hogarth producing,

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Speaker 1: and and he's pretty busy, and that was pretty busy

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Speaker 1: touring then, and so we after the tracking, we had

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Speaker 1: to juggle our schedules to try to get the overdubs done.

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Speaker 1: That took about the rest of the year. We were

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Speaker 1: just about to finish up keyboards when California shut down

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Speaker 1: and then the rest of the country shut down, and

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Speaker 1: so we had to do keyboard over to his kind

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Speaker 1: of piecemeal, with various different musicians and different locations. I

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Speaker 1: did a couple of sessions with Buck Allen in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and Ross had some guys that were emailing tracks in

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Speaker 1: and so he finally got it all assembled and mixed

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Speaker 1: this past year. And I don't remember what one the

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Speaker 1: August release date came about, but that's just that's what

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Speaker 1: the label decided on and and now it's out. Okay,

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Speaker 1: did you make the album already have a having a

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Speaker 1: record deal in place? Whould you cut first and then

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Speaker 1: shop for a deal? Oh? No, I had a deal

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Speaker 1: with New West Records. Um Logan Rogers, he owns a

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Speaker 1: label called Lightning Rod. He did a couple of my records,

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Speaker 1: and before that he was with Compoti Records and they

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Speaker 1: did a couple of records. So I knew Logan. He's

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Speaker 1: now a VP at New West, so he was kind

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Speaker 1: of the key man on the contract. So you have

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Speaker 1: a deal with them, they pay for the record. In

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Speaker 1: today's marketplace, which is so different from when you started out,

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Speaker 1: What is your label doing to get the word out? Well,

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Speaker 1: I assume they're doing plenty of ads and they got

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Speaker 1: al Moss working at the radio, so they seem to

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Speaker 1: be doing a good job. Where I think we're number

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Speaker 1: three Americana this week. So you know, you started out

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Speaker 1: on a major label. As they say, the landscape change

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Speaker 1: irrelevant of your career. You put out a record today,

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Speaker 1: an album today. What are your personal expectations? What do

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Speaker 1: you want? Well, what I want is to to get

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Speaker 1: people in the clubs. And then when we when I

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Speaker 1: started out making records on a major label, the business

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Speaker 1: model was you put the record out and you tour

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Speaker 1: to support record sales, and the hopes that you would

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Speaker 1: sell enough records to recoup your cost and are enough

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Speaker 1: royalties that you can make a living off the record. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that didn't work for me. I didn't

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Speaker 1: sell near enough records. But I did get a foot

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Speaker 1: hold in the touring business and learned how to tour

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Speaker 1: pretty cheap, so I can actually profit on the road. Well.

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Speaker 1: As the business evolved or devolved, however you want to

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Speaker 1: look at it. You know, Napster and Spotify came along.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly nobody's making any artists royalties off records. Everybody's having

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Speaker 1: to scramble down the road. So at that point, everybody

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Speaker 1: else was doing what we've already been doing. Um so

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Speaker 1: we look at, you know, as at a record. A

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Speaker 1: record is is a piece of art, but it's also

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Speaker 1: a piece of advertising. We put a record out, I

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Speaker 1: get to talk to you, I get to talk to

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Speaker 1: all kinds of journalists. I get local press. When I'm

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Speaker 1: coming to a town to play a gig, and people

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Speaker 1: will know I'm coming and they might buy a ticket.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm looking for in a record. Okay, before COVID,

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Speaker 1: and it's insanity, how many dates a year were you doing.

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Speaker 1: I was out about half the year, and when we

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Speaker 1: were home, we had a weekend gigs and regular gig

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Speaker 1: at the Continental Club on Wednesdays. I also had a

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Speaker 1: regular solo thing, so we're pretty busy. Well the same

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Speaker 1: since then. I had to learn to stream, so now

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Speaker 1: I do a couple of live streams a week, and

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Speaker 1: and it was it was pretty good money at first,

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Speaker 1: and then everybody's unemployment ran out and they don't tip

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Speaker 1: quite so high, but but they're still pretty generous and loyal.

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Speaker 1: So I've been very lucky with the people out there.

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Speaker 1: So how frequently were you doing the live streams twice

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Speaker 1: a week, once on Wednesdays and once on Sundays And

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Speaker 1: what platform were you using? I use Facebook and YouTube

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Speaker 1: and Twitch. For a while, I was just using Facebook.

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Speaker 1: I usually have like two fifty a week or to

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Speaker 1: fifty per show. At first it was somewhat more than that,

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Speaker 1: and then I guess everybody got bored with my mercury.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's boiled down to, you know,

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Speaker 1: two fifty loyal fans and from different places. You know,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday night I do at at pm Central and then

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Speaker 1: Sundays I do it one pm Central because that way

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Speaker 1: I still get I get the Europeans that are still awake,

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Speaker 1: and I get the Californias they're just getting up. So

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Speaker 1: you have to thank globally on the net. And do

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Speaker 1: you think it's the same Twitter and fifty people every

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Speaker 1: gig where there's a certain number of die hards, a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them, because well yeah, because you see their

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Speaker 1: handles on Facebook scroll I use I use re stream,

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Speaker 1: which goes multi format, so it goes out to UH, Facebook, YouTube,

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Speaker 1: and Twitch. Twitch has the best technical aspects, best audio,

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Speaker 1: best video, and about two listeners. We're getting another we're

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Speaker 1: getting more unstable internet. UM YouTube has pretty good video,

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Speaker 1: pretty good audio. But Facebook remains the most popular. I

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Speaker 1: think it's because the interactive nature of it. People like

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Speaker 1: to get together and shot amongst themselves. So if you're

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Speaker 1: doing two shows a week on a presentation level, how

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Speaker 1: do you decide what material to play? I try not

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Speaker 1: to repeat UH songs more than you know every third

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Speaker 1: or fourth show. So I just asked kind of rotate

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Speaker 1: through my material, and I generally do one cover song

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Speaker 1: per show, usually one that I've never played before. I

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Speaker 1: just started surfing the internet and trying to jog my memory.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the cover songs you've played?

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Speaker 1: I did Garden Party one time. That was interesting. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't and I was like that. Sometimes I'll pull up

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Speaker 1: hits that I remember when I was, you know, fourteen

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Speaker 1: or fifteen, UM, please come to Boston. I really like

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Speaker 1: doing that. You've done so many of these, You've learned

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Speaker 1: what works most when you play the well known songs

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Speaker 1: or when you tell stories. Yeah, what works for your audience. Well,

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Speaker 1: depending on a live show, I don't talk so much.

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Speaker 1: But on the Internet you have to. You have to

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Speaker 1: sort of be kind of twisted, Mr Rogers, because you

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Speaker 1: gotta tune these guitars, and everybody's right up in your face.

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Speaker 1: They can they can see you, they can see your thoughts.

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Speaker 1: So you gotta keep something going, some kind of pattern.

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Speaker 1: But there's just some of the old songs that they

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Speaker 1: really like. They always like Choctaw Bingo level Land, Painting

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Speaker 1: by Numbers, that kind of thing. So do you personally

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Speaker 1: know a lot of these hardcore fans or do you

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Speaker 1: keep him at arms length? Uh? No, I don't know

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Speaker 1: very many fans in general, and I don't do like

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Speaker 1: I don't interact on Facebook. I don't do Facebook unless

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Speaker 1: I'm streaming. Um. There was a little while where I

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Speaker 1: kind of got drawn into the culture, and I just

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Speaker 1: don't like that. I don't like to worry about it.

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Speaker 1: I'll put my show out there and every now and

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Speaker 1: then I'll post something just to see if I can

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Speaker 1: get a feeding frenzy going, because for a while there,

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Speaker 1: you you know, you get all kinds of trolls. That

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Speaker 1: was fun. To watch. But if I'm mad enough, I'll

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Speaker 1: post something. But I don't ever look at the comments anymore.

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Speaker 1: I just, you know, I don't worry about what they

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Speaker 1: think that much. But you're a guy who was not

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Speaker 1: speaking in bland statements, and there's a lot of personal

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Speaker 1: stuff and therefore bonds fans to you. And I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if one of the reasons you might keep fans in

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Speaker 1: arms lengthens, you might have had some bad experiences. By

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Speaker 1: the flip side, there's a lot of acts that depend

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Speaker 1: on their fans to get the word out. They literally

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Speaker 1: stay at their houses. Where are you in that game? Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't stay at private residences on the road.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just a little too old to be that accessible, because, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was starting out and making records,

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Speaker 1: we were still in the business of selling exclusivity and

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Speaker 1: myth and it's more fun to sell that than than

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Speaker 1: than accessibility. I don't you know, I've gotten. I got

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Speaker 1: where I didn't want to go to the merch table anymore.

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Speaker 1: For for a while there, I had to because we

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Speaker 1: had to make little extra money and and my drummers

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Speaker 1: in the T shirt business. I wanted him to make

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Speaker 1: a little extra money, And so I'd go out there

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Speaker 1: and signed stuff I found that. You know, after you

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Speaker 1: drive all day and then you check in a hotel,

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Speaker 1: you take an hour off, you go load in, then

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Speaker 1: you sound check, then you do a show, then you

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Speaker 1: go out and try to talk to people, and you

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Speaker 1: just don't have anything left but meanness, so quite off,

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Speaker 1: and I'd get in a practice with a fan, you know,

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Speaker 1: or you know, or I just let him know what

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Speaker 1: an asshole I was. You don't want to let them

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Speaker 1: know that. You want to keep them in the dark

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Speaker 1: on that. And so it was better if I don't

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Speaker 1: go near the merch table and sign stuff because one thing,

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Speaker 1: it just takes so much energy, and you need that

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Speaker 1: energy for the next day's show. And you know, there

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Speaker 1: there are artists like Joe really who could talk to

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Speaker 1: people all night long and get up and play a

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Speaker 1: great show the next night. But me, it would wear

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Speaker 1: me down after a while. And besides that, you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody's got a camera now, they all got a cell phone,

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Speaker 1: so they're gonna get a picture with you, And it's

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Speaker 1: just it takes a lot of energy to stand there

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Speaker 1: and do that and just to be nice for that

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Speaker 1: long when you're already that tired. You know, the freeway

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Speaker 1: can make you grumpy. How big your business is? Your

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Speaker 1: merch Um, you'd have to ask my manager a merchburg.

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Speaker 1: I don't really keep tabs on that. Um. I don't

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Speaker 1: like merch personally, but it's just necessary, okay. And you'd

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Speaker 1: don't like merch because instance, because you got to carry

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Speaker 1: it around and then somebody's got to account for it,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't it's not my craft really. Well, I

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Speaker 1: guess the question I'm asking is if you don't sign

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Speaker 1: and you don't sit there and talk to Fance, does

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Speaker 1: that drive the numbers down? Definitely? But it's worth it

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Speaker 1: to me to have more energy the next night to

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Speaker 1: do a better show. Just the show is the product

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to sell. And I feel better if I

425
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: do a better job, and I do a better job

426
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: if I don't bother with the merch table. Okay. You

427
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: know your agent is Frank Riley at high Road Touring,

428
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, great guy, really dedicated. So how

429
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: do you plan out your tours and going on the road.

430
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: You call him and say this, how much I want

431
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: to work and how much is involved in terms of

432
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: the conversation. Well, um, actually, as Dave Rohan does most

433
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: of the hands on work with my tours, Frank does

434
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: sums that you know, he gets some good stuff coming

435
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: to him. But basically, you arrange a tour, you get

436
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: some good offers, you get some good money offers, and

437
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 1: the trick at that point is to get to that

438
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: money and get home with most of it. So you'll

439
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: have your anchor dates that are high dollar and then

440
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: you just take regular club dates for whatever the market

441
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: will bear to get you there, so you can put

442
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 1: gas in your van, you know, pay for the lodging,

443
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: and pay for the payroll um per d MS, food,

444
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. You're out now with just a

445
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: tour manager. How do you decide when you go acoustic

446
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: and when you go with the band? It depends on

447
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: the offer. Some clubs will prefer acoustics, so they'll offer

448
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: an acoustic show, and you know, so we'll do an

449
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: acoustic run, which it's more lucrative. They'll you're getting the

450
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: same money up front, but the overhead is a lot lower.

451
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: Um that I wouldn't want to do nothing but acoustic

452
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: because it wears you out. You don't get as much

453
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: back from an audience and you don't have the and energy.

454
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: It's like a band show that the energy is sort

455
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: of circular. You're passing it between you and the band

456
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: and the audience it comes back around, whereas with a

457
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: solo show it's just you and the audience. It's linear.

458
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: It's like a tennis game, straight back and forth. Um,

459
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: it's great in some ways. You can you can really

460
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: get your songs across. But you know, you do a

461
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: month of those days. It's just where you're flat out.

462
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: So when you do go on the road, how many

463
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: dates a week do you tend to work? We try

464
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: to work six days a week. We take Monday off

465
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: for a travel day, um, because it's um, nobody goes

466
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: out on Monday nights anyway, and you always travel in

467
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: a van with a band. Yeah, if it's just a

468
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: solo thing, then it's just right. Now. We're in my

469
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: dad's old hun day As it's the best running car

470
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: we got and you you go out. So how much

471
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: equipment do you take? I'd take just to take a

472
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: twelve string guitar, six string guitar, a couple of tuners,

473
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: a couple of pedals. That's about it. Are you in

474
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: equipment geek or you know he was. There are people

475
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: who have a hundred guitars, whe other people really only

476
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: have one. Where are you in that landscape? I have

477
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: quite a quite a few guitars. I couldn't count them.

478
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: I don't think um. Then, when I tear with a band,

479
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: I usually have five guitars on stage. I thought about

480
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: bringing a third guitar on his solo thing, because I

481
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta eight string baritone I've been messing with,

482
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: but I didn't have a hard shell case for it,

483
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to bring it out because you know,

484
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: stuff happens. And when you bring the five guitars for

485
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: a band gig, what are those guitars? Main? Main guitars?

486
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: A Parl Reid Smith, swamp ash special as I bolt

487
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: you know it's got a bolt on neck and and uh,

488
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, I've got a Jerry Jones baritone. Uh got

489
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: a National Res electric and sometimes I bring Strat for

490
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: a Sparry guitar. Sometimes I've got an old guild S sixty.

491
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: You know, we're a weird looking things. Single pick up

492
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: it sounds pretty good. I'll bring that sometimes. And I've

493
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: got a Guild acoustic with a sunrise in the hole.

494
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: You go on the road and you know, you say,

495
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of overbearing. Ever been in a car accident

496
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: as a result of all this traveling? No, that only uh,

497
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: only real automotive mishap. I remember it was on my

498
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: first tour, or I guess maybe technically second. We and

499
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: we put waste Land out and we've gone out and

500
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, toured as a band, opening up for the

501
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: Bodines and then Nancy Griffith and then the delf Wages,

502
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: and we're out for about three months and then it's

503
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: about to go home and suddenly the Indigo Girls. I

504
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: wanted an know winner, so I took my bass player

505
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: at the time, Randy Garyvy, and he also played guitar,

506
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: So the two of us went out as a duo

507
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: and opened up for the Indigo Girls. And again we

508
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: were jokingly termed ourselves the out you go guys. But

509
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: we got down to San Francisco and the original road

510
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: manager on that I managed to get deported. Actually I

511
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 1: had a hand in that. I was rather stupid tipped

512
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: off the border patrol by going back looking for my

513
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: road manager who had crossed in a separate car. And

514
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: as it wound up sending him back to Canada. It's

515
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: from New Zealand originally, but but he had rented a

516
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: Ford Taurus station wagon. And so we picked up another

517
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: tour manager in Portland because I didn't know how to

518
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: settle a show or anything. And he rode with us

519
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: all the way down down the coast, and we got

520
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: to Eugene, and I was supposed to fly ahead, and

521
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: I was supposed to fly down to San Francisco and

522
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: sit in a hotel all day talking to press while

523
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: the tour manager and the bass player drove that tore

524
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: us down past Mount Shasta in that way, and and

525
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: they got there and the phone rang and and it

526
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: was Dana, the tour enter. He said that we got

527
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: a problem. This is well, what's the problem? He said, Well,

528
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: the street car just rip ripped the driver's door half

529
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: off the rent car, And so, well, are you hurt?

530
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: He says, no, you're not bleeding or anything. He said no.

531
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: So well, what's the problem, he says, Well, what do

532
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 1: you want me to do? So, well, you're in San Francisco.

533
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: So what you do is you empty everything and out

534
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: of that car and you take it over to North

535
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: beach and leave it on the street. That's gonna get

536
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: swept in the morning, Carl will disappear, which you did.

537
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: And then somebody got ahold of Max, the original tour manager.

538
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: It was back in New Zealand at the time, and

539
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: and he had been planning to ditch the car anyway.

540
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: He wasn't going to play a budget a drop fee

541
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: on a car that he picked up in Seattle to

542
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: drop in San Diego. So he just called in it,

543
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: you know, to the rent car company and say, yeah,

544
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: I told you it's in Space sixteen in front of

545
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the Edgewater Hotel in Seattle. What do you mean it's

546
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: not there, you know? So he called it and stolen basically,

547
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: and they charged him seventy dollars on his visa card.

548
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: But nobody got hurt physically. And when you're on the road,

549
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: do you ever drive? I do most of the driving

550
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: bass player and when I when I wear out, the

551
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: bass player drives. And then if we have a night drive,

552
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: the drummer drives. And how do you decide that? How

553
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: do you decide you drive? Well, if it's if it's

554
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: after show, the drummer drives. I usually I do the

555
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: morning shift because that's when I'm best. And then bass

556
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: player wakes up, you know, somewhere between one and three

557
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, and stopped for gas and he takes

558
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: the wheel. And how many of these are long drafts? Well,

559
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: we try not to drive too long, um, I mean

560
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: eight hours in a show is is max for us,

561
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: and it's usually between four and six in the West

562
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: and the east it'll be shorter. It'll be you know,

563
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: two to five hours because the distances are shorter back there.

564
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: So you know, it sounds like a grind. And I

565
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: realized this is what you do and you have to

566
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: earn a living. Do you dig it? Do you like

567
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: going on the road and going through this? I do

568
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: once I'm out. I don't like leaving that much as

569
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: it always have to work up to loading that van

570
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: and getting out the front door. You know, the dogs

571
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: look at you funny kind of cock their heads. They

572
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: get all silky, and you know, if you get used

573
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: to staying at home, it's harder to go back out.

574
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: And it has in you know, since the lockdown. I

575
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: have a different view of it all, um. And it

576
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: didn't take long after I canceled that first tour. I

577
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: was home for a couple of weeks and I realized

578
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: my joints and my bones didn't hurt. I wasn't rattling

579
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: down the road in that band. You know, it's just

580
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: something about you. You hunch over that wheel, and it's

581
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: that last twenty miles into town and you're trying to

582
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: get in before rush hour locks the whole thing down,

583
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: and it just gets really frantic. And that, you know,

584
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: that talks me out pretty good. I don't miss that

585
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: about the road. Now. The road is rife with people's

586
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: stories of abusing drugs and alcohol just to copy. And

587
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: you come off stage, you're all fired up. Takes you

588
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: a long time to come down. Maybe you're traveling. How

589
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: do you cope with that? Oh? Well, I've done my

590
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: share of the alcohol, and and there's places I can't

591
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: go back to you because of that. Um, there's a

592
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: lot of things I'm not proud of. And at this

593
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: point in time, the band members, how long did these

594
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: particular members been playing with you? Darren and Tim have

595
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: been with me twenty four years, and corn Bread, the

596
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: bass player, he's been in about twelve years. I think, Wow, Okay,

597
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: let's talk about the new album. So how did the

598
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: songs come together. Was it like, oh I have an album,

599
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: I got a right material, or is the collection what

600
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: you've done for the previous five years. Well, I worked

601
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: from a scrapile, scrap pile that I've worked on for

602
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 1: the previous you know, thirty years, And basically what happened

603
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: this time as Ross Hogarth called up after having waited

604
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: a few months while I was messing around trying to

605
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: finish these songs, and he said, look, we can get

606
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,479
Speaker 1: the Groove Masters in June. So I'm going to book

607
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: the time and you're gonna finish the songs. So I said, okay,

608
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: did that work for you? Yeah? I got the songs done. Okay.

609
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: So it's been you know a number of years since

610
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: your last album. Were you're writing songs? Some people are

611
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: would shipping all the time. They have extra stuff, they

612
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: have throw aways. Other people they only have what they

613
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: come into the studio with. What's your situation? I had

614
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: less than when I came in the studio with. Actually

615
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: I finished a couple of those songs, uh in the

616
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: roadway in and Culver City, um, just because actually yeah,

617
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: I was Darren the drummer and he told me said, yeah,

618
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: I want that song about glasses. You know they did

619
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: that once that at sound check and it wasn't finished.

620
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: But I just pulled it out and tried it. And

621
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: he remembered that they get that song back out and

622
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: finish it. Let's cut that. So so I sat down

623
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: and finished it. Okay do you Some people, you know,

624
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: they work got word by word. Other people wait for inspiration.

625
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: How do you do it? I get a couple of

626
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: lines and a melody, and I just keep picking at it.

627
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Over time. If I think about the lines,

628
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: I think, okay, who said that? Um? So, I can

629
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: envision a character, and and if I if I can

630
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: get the character, I might get a story and I

631
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: can put it into a verse chorus structure. And that's

632
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: how I get a song. I have to be careful

633
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: sometimes those characters don't agree with me. And the trick

634
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: there is to stay in character. If you you start

635
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: a song and character and then you start pushing your

636
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: own opinion, you're gonna break character and you'll have a

637
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 1: sermon instead of a song. Okay. The opening track talks

638
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: about a thirty year crush. Where did that come from?

639
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: I just heard it in my head. You weren't thinking

640
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: about somebody you knew thirty years ago. No, I'm a

641
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: fiction writer. Okay, but in a world music where it's

642
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: mostly auto biographical. Two people still think that this is

643
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: your story. Of course. Uh, you know, people think that

644
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: Raciel's song is my story. You know, it's Raciel's song.

645
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: It's not song for Rachel. Raciel is the narrator. But

646
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: it signed my voice. That's the thing about being a

647
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: singer songwriter. You know, Tom T. Hall wrote Harper Valley Pta,

648
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: but I don't think he's sang it, so he didn't

649
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: have that problem. He pitched it to a female artist. Okay.

650
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: Another song is Operation never Mind, which I'll just say

651
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: is a political song. What's the backstory there? Uh, there

652
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: is a little backstory there. I didn't have. A friend

653
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: of mine was in the Army for a long time.

654
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: He really liked it until until he got to Bagdad

655
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: and got cross was with some contractors and the army

656
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: brass backed the contractors over him, basically, and that's where

657
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: I got. I got some of that story out of that.

658
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: But my you know, my problem with a lot of

659
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: our military operations sense Vietnam is that that we don't

660
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: know what's going on because we don't allow actual coverage.

661
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: We don't allow journalists. And the last time I saw

662
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: a real freelance, you know, television journalism at a military

663
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: operation wasn't was when Reagan sent the Marines into beyrout

664
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: to guard the airfield as a symbolic presence, he thought,

665
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 1: And he didn't think anybody would shoot at a marine,

666
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: I guess. And these guys were, you know, they'd suffered

667
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: some casualties early on from snipers, and at that time,

668
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: YAM cameraman and reporters were just walking up to random

669
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: Marines and asking them questions, and the Marines were allowed

670
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: to answer, and they looked right in the camera and

671
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: they said, why did you send us? This isn't our mission.

672
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: We're an offensively trained unit. You know, you're having us

673
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: guard something on low grounds surrounded by hustles on a

674
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: high ground, and we don't get to go out and

675
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: take the high ground. Why us? Then you know, the

676
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: barracks blew up that somebody drove a truck bomb into

677
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: a barracks and killed a whole bunch of guys. And

678
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure wine Burger and Reagan didn't look good.

679
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 1: And pretty soon suddenly we're in Grenada, and nobody can

680
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: really figure out why we're in Grenada. And the journalists

681
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: that came ashore with US forces were detained aboard a

682
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: US aircraft carrier for the duration of the action. Uh,

683
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was talking telling that story to Scott

684
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: Simon from NPR the other day and he said, well,

685
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: you know, I've covered that war, but he didn't go

686
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: in with US forces. He went in through Barbados with

687
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: Grenadian citizens and just kind of snuck onto the island.

688
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: So he knows a lot more about that action. But

689
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, but ever since then, you know, we we

690
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: haven't had just you know, freelance journalism going on with

691
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: and I guess the next major action. You know, in

692
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: Desert Storm, we had Swarts cough Spoon feeding us the

693
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: war to a press pool and a tent watching the

694
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 1: video equips that he wanted them to see. And then

695
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: now we do have in beds here that there's you know,

696
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: out there with the troops and doing good journalism, but

697
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: it's hard to get to there's so many sources. Now,

698
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: during Vietnam we add Walter Cronkite and some other guys,

699
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: and everybody listened to them, we had a center because

700
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: we only had a few channels to listen to, and

701
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: everybody listened to Walter Cronkite, and that war ended when

702
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: Cronkite got enough of it. But you know, now we

703
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: we don't have we we don't know what's going on,

704
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: and so we can't make decisions as citizens. You know,

705
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: Tennyson said from the you know, the in the Light Brigade,

706
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: from the point of view of a soldier, he said,

707
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: our ours is not to question why, ours is but

708
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: to do or die. But as a allegedly free citizen

709
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: in a free society, ours is to question why. And

710
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: we're not doing that actively. We've kind of trained ourselves

711
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 1: not to. But the flip side is we we don't

712
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: know what to question because we don't have information. So

713
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: that's that's part of what that song is about. Okay,

714
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: So now it's certainly a different era from the three

715
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: network era. And just to flip the script, one might

716
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: say that the right wing and the Republicans, they are

717
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: saying they are personally analyzing the information. Therefore they're not

718
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: getting vaccines. Therefore they have their take on all these things.

719
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: So you know, we have the informs. It is in

720
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: looking for information. We have another segment believing they found

721
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: the information. Where does this leave us? UM? I don't know.

722
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: We're in a nest because everybody has their own reality. Now,

723
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, we've got so many sources that you know

724
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: you can you can find the channel is going to

725
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: give you your own opinion back and reinforce your opinion.

726
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: And I guess maybe that that sells more products than

727
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: actual information. And if you could snap your fingers and

728
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: change America, how did you change? UM? I would educate people.

729
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: I would fund the public school system as much as possible.

730
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: I would try to teach um critical thinking. I still

731
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: got an unstable internet. No, I mean I remember being

732
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: very frustrated as as a college student, which I was

733
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: not a very good student, but I took a philosophy

734
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: class and I would go in to these discussions and

735
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: all anybody wanted to know was what was going to

736
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: be on the quiz and the answers to it. Nobody

737
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: was discussing philosophy. You know, it's about ideas, but we're

738
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: not discussing ideas, and we're not we weren't trying to

739
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: learn concepts. Well, I realized now that all that was

740
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: an elective that fullfilled something, and all these kids needed

741
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: it to get to something so they could be engineers

742
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: or whatever they were trying to be. You know, they

743
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: saw it as a process towards the Yeah, economic security,

744
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: financial security. You know, I looked at it as school,

745
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to learn something here. Um, stilly me.

746
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: Did you finish college? No? I think I became a sophomore.

747
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: But you know, we don't we we don't. We don't

748
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: want people to think. It's much easier to govern people

749
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: that don't think. So where did you get all this

750
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: insight and all this knowledge? Was it from your parents?

751
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: Your mother? Your father? Well, my parents were both academics

752
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: when I was young. Um, you know, Larry made his

753
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 1: living teaching creative writing up until the last Picture Show.

754
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: You know, he had some books out, but in those days,

755
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 1: you could keep putting out books, whether they sold or not.

756
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: That the polishers would let you run five or six

757
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: books at least. Um, But he wasn't selling enough books

758
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: to make a living, so he taught, and then finally

759
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: he co scripted Picture show and got a foothold and

760
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 1: screenwriting business. And that's mostly how I made his living

761
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: after that. Um. But you know, he was an academic.

762
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: My mother was an academic. Most of the people we

763
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: knew were academics, and they got around they discussed books,

764
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: and they discussed the ideas. And I guess some of

765
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: it led off on me because I didn't. I didn't

766
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: like to read. I still don't. I'm not a well

767
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: read individual. And did you grow up your parents whole?

768
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: Were you when your parents would up less than a year?

769
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: I think I don't. I don't remember them being together,

770
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: just be Were you raised by both the primarily your

771
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: mother or your father and my father your father? So

772
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: you grew up with your father? Yes? And was he

773
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: the type of person giving you lessons or he was

774
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: more hands off? No, he didn't give me lessons, As

775
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: I recall, he was just there all the time. So

776
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: he wasn't giving you a father leaf philosophy. Um, no

777
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: of it. He taught by example in a lot of ways.

778
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very strange, you know, to see these

779
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: politicians now just fighting so hard for white power. I

780
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: would have thought that would have gone away. Um. I remember,

781
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 1: I think it was about nineteen sixty eight in Houston

782
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: before we left, before we moved to Virginia. Um, and

783
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: my dad was driving. We were on Sunset in Houston.

784
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: He was driving along. He was looking at this house

785
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: across the street because I guess he he thought maybe

786
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: he could buy a house at that point, and he

787
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: was looking at his house for sale. And he rolled

788
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: into the back of a delivery truck at five miles

789
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: an hour, and I flew off the back seat and

790
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: hit the back of the front seat because you know,

791
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: we didn't have seat belts on in those days. And well,

792
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 1: he didn't damage the truck in front of him, damaged

793
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: the car a little bit, and we all got out

794
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: and and the driver was black. And that's the first

795
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: time I really never saw fear on the face of

796
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: a grown man. And the first policeman that came up,

797
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was a walking cop. They had

798
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: those in those days. And big fat Dude and Larry

799
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: spent twenty minutes trying to keep the cop from giving

800
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: the driver a ticket, repeating over, nor, no, sir, it

801
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: was my fault. He was just off to the stoplight.

802
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: You know. That cop got so mad his face disappeared.

803
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: He could not believe that the white guy wouldn't let

804
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: him end. Take it on the black guy and a

805
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: couple of young cops showed up in a cruiser and

806
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: they kind of looked around a shrug and got back in.

807
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: But that big walking copies kept at it relentless for

808
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: a long time, and I didn't really take all that

809
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: in at the time. It took a lot of years,

810
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: but to realize that that was a brave act on

811
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: where he's part and that time and place. You know,

812
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: I recently watched the film Magic Trip, and although you're

813
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: very young, two years old, Ken KESI and his bus

814
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: and Mary Pranksters come and stop at your father's house.

815
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect you to remember that scene. But while

816
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: you were growing up, did your father interact with all

817
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: those people that he knew from Stanford, etcetera. Well, he

818
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: certainly interacted with Ken. I don't know if he interacted

819
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: with Peter Beagle or any of the other people in

820
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: that Stigner class, But I do remember the second time

821
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: the bus came to that house. I was a little

822
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: bit older. I was like six or seven then, and

823
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: I took a liking to There was a prankister by

824
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 1: the name of Hermit that I idolized. Hermit because he

825
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: wore a big knife on his belt. And one time

826
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: we rode the bus over to the astrodome and back

827
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: and and the cops took Hermit's knife away, and I

828
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: thought that was some kind of a tragedy. Even it

829
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: didn't shake him up real bad. And of course Hermit

830
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: turned out to be an FBI informant who eventually got

831
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: a lot of the thone in jail. So careful how

832
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: you take your heroes. You know. Wow, And since your

833
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: father interacted with keys, he's a fascinating character, comes out

834
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: of the shoot with a lot of success, and then

835
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: he will literally say, well you can judge whether he

836
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: fried his brains with drugs. What was your drugs? What

837
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: was your perception of ken Um? I was about half

838
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: scared of him. Yeah, very charismatic, and I liked the

839
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 1: whole court and kind of control the conversation, and as

840
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't used to that kind of manic energy. Yeah,

841
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: our house was pretty calm for the most part. Okay,

842
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: you wrote, certainly in my eyes slung in the decade

843
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: we can't make it here. Is there any power in

844
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: political songs anymore? Certainly in the sixties they were woven

845
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: into the culture anti Vietnam culture. What do you think now?

846
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: I don't really know, and I just I wrote that song.

847
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: I started it during the Clinton administration, and I finished

848
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: it during the Bush administration, and I kept singing it

849
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: on into Obama's years a little bit, but I don't

850
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: I didn't expect it to have any kind of power.

851
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: I don't know that it did either. But that was

852
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: fun for a while. Well, we we work in a business.

853
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: We've had success doing anything, especially in today's world where

854
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: it's hard to get noticed, most people try to replicate it.

855
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: After you have that success with that song, did you

856
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: consciously not want to repeat it? Did people ask you

857
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: to do something similar? No? I didn't set out to

858
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: write a political song. I just followed the words where

859
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: they led um And then the next time. The problem

860
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 1: was I got pegged as a political songwriter at that point,

861
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: and so on the next record, I had Cheney's Toy,

862
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: which was political for sure, but it was more McMurtry ranting.

863
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't written from a character that everybody could identify

864
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 1: it with, so it was fun, but it was largely misinterpreted,

865
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: and people thought I was saying that the soldier was

866
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: Cheney's toy, which I was really saying Bush was Cheney's toy.

867
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: I was. I was referred to that era as the

868
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: Cheney administration. I felt like Cheney was the puppeteer and

869
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: Bush was the puppet. And you know, I'd read in

870
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: the New York Times that Cheney would tell Bush you're

871
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: the man every you know, day to get him to

872
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: pump his ego up so he'd go out and sell

873
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: his policies. And as I thought for some reason people

874
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: might recognize that, Well, it turns out a lot of

875
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: the country doesn't read the New York Times. So so

876
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: I got a little bit of a bad rap for that.

877
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: But you know, I should have been more careful. You

878
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: do you read the New York Times, You keep up

879
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: on the news every day. I did for a while. Um,

880
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: I tend to read The Post now orson post. Um,

881
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: the Time's got a little whimpy. In my opinion, the

882
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: Post has rebuilt itself into a good paper once again.

883
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: Can you go a little deeper in the difference of

884
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: the two. Well, the Times seems to always have to,

885
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: you know, hedge its bets and and try to look

886
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: like they're being objective by giving the right wing a

887
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: little bit of play, which the Post doesn't bother with

888
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: that so much. You know, they own their liberalism a

889
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: little more fiercely. So since you really do, even though

890
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: you claim not to, you really follow this closely and

891
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 1: have a lot of insight where's it going in America?

892
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: Like I said, I can't I can't judge the future,

893
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: but it doesn't surprise me so much. What surprises me

894
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: is that, you know, people after Tim McVey blew the

895
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: side off that building, we didn't do some kind of

896
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: national psychological triage because anybody that's just driven around in

897
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: the middle of the country knows that that was not

898
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: an anomaly. You know, people out here have been trained

899
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: to distrust the government and distrust elites whatever they call them.

900
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: You know that they'll say they hate elite and then

901
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: they'll vote, vote for a bush, you know that sort

902
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: of thing. That this distrust of liberalism and government is

903
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: deep seated and along seated, and it's it's bundled with

904
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,919
Speaker 1: the racism that's every bit is deep seated out here.

905
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: So you know, right now, although there's a democratic administration,

906
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: the Democrats controlled we mean well, they control the Congress

907
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: and they control presidency. They certainly do not control the courts.

908
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: It seems like the Republicans are gained the right wing,

909
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: even though smaller numbers, are gaining evermore power. They have

910
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: the state governments, and that's a big deal. And that's

911
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 1: because they can, you know, they can gerrymander these districts

912
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: where they can stay in power. But it's really strange.

913
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like they're supposed to be pro business, right, well,

914
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: you haven't her Abbot back in Texas. He you know,

915
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,919
Speaker 1: if he doesn't like your policies, he'll come after you.

916
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: And any club there that tries to do a mask

917
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: mandate or a vacts mandate is immediately threatened with the

918
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: loss of their liquor license. And for some reason, they

919
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 1: where he's a precient you know, it's it's government oversight

920
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: if the Feds tell Texas what to do. But if

921
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: the state of Texas tells a private business that can't

922
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: have a mask mandate, then there's that's patriotism. They're fighting

923
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: for your individual freedoms. And I don't understand how he

924
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: can spend that to his advantage, but but his followers will.

925
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: They'll just do anything to keep from doing what the

926
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: Liberals do. They'll take calf medicine I have relatives who

927
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: take calf medicine, bovine and equine d warmer, and you

928
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 1: bother to get into it with him. No, So once again,

929
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: you know there's a long there's a big stand right

930
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: now amongst the right wing and the white nationalists, etcetera.

931
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: Even though the country is going more multi colored, shall

932
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: I say, in the whites are decreasing in percentage of population,

933
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: but certainly in Florida there are a lot of people

934
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: Latinos who voted Republican and you're living in Texas. I mean,

935
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: is it just gonna go on this way or is

936
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: there going to be an inflection point? It'll it'll go

937
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: on this way as long as they can keep it

938
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: going on. I mean, they've always preached that the white

939
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: men is outnumbered. Well maybe now he actually is. So

940
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: they're freaking out. You know, they're losing their minds. We

941
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: had a black president that freaked him out. I remember

942
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: seeing a sign in in Utah or no it was

943
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: in it was in Idaho. It's just on the outside

944
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: of loww Pass, a big sign by this cabin in

945
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: the middle of the woods. Congratulations, Jimmy Carter, you are

946
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: now the second worst president in US history. There's another

947
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: line in your new album talking about you know they're

948
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: gonna need the Mexicans to actually build the wall. Yeah,

949
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: that's the last an idea that's been battered around. And

950
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: Tom Russell wrote a song Who's Gonna Build Your Wall?

951
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: I just I just made a different spin on it.

952
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: So what is the backstory of the Glasses song? Uh?

953
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: We Uh. There's a festival in the Florida Panhandle called

954
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: the thirty A Festival and it takes place in January

955
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: and multi stage, multi venue, a lot of bands coming

956
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: in and out, and it all takes place along Florida

957
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: Highway thirty Alternate, which runs from runs Pensacola out through Destin,

958
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: Fort Walton Beach, goes all the way over Mexico Beach,

959
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: Panama City. Um, but if I've played it a number

960
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: of times yet to get in and out of that

961
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: festival without freezing to the bone at some point, because

962
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: when the wind blows out of the north in North Florida,

963
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: it's the same north wind that goes through Texas, and

964
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: it gets cold, especially when you know right there by

965
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: the Gulf you got that damp cold, it just goes

966
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: right to you and it can be miserable. So I

967
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: don't know why I just started messing with words about

968
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, she woke up mad, trying to pick a fight.

969
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: I got the thing going, UM written most of the

970
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: song for it. The glasses was just supposed to be

971
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: a placeholder, you know, I heard it in my head

972
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: while I'll put that in there until I get to

973
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: where I can write a real chorus. But then I

974
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: hadn't finished the song. When I sang it. It sound

975
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: checked just for a lark, and and it's stuck. Just

976
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,959
Speaker 1: you know, it seemed to sing okay, and it wasn't

977
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: hurting the song. And you know everybody that heard saying,

978
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: I'll just leave that in there. It's fine. Now there's

979
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: a line there where you talk about the woman being

980
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: in the shower and she's a lude. You know, we

981
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: live in the meat too. Era. Needless to say, you've

982
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: established that this is fiction. You're writing again characters. But

983
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: do you ever internally blink saying, oh, I'm gonna write

984
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: this and I'm gonna get blowback. Maybe I should maybe

985
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: I shouldn't. Ah, Yeah, I mean I get some some places,

986
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: I get a little twinsies singing Choctaw bingo and I

987
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: wrote that a while back before the Meat Too era. Um,

988
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: there may come a day I don't get to sing

989
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: that anymore. Things mean different things in different eras, So

990
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: I don't know right now. I'm still taking my chances

991
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: and about what's the matter? Which I find the catchiest

992
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: song and a great song on the album even though

993
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: it's close to the end. How'd you come up with that? Uh?

994
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: Decades of riding along listening to people talking on cell

995
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: phones in a van, Yeah have been. I've been listening

996
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: to that since the cell phone came about pretty much.

997
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: And uh, how did you decide on the order of

998
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: the record? The track listing? That is always always tricky. Um, yeah,

999
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: you find one to start and you follow it. You

1000
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: don't want to be you have too many songs in

1001
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: the same key or the same groove, so you have

1002
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: to separate everything out that's going to cancel itself, you know.

1003
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: And this record was really tricky because I had three

1004
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: songs and six. Don't ever put three songs and six

1005
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: on the same record. You know. If I had it

1006
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: to do again, I'd have written one more song and

1007
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: bumped one of those sixes. But but we got it done.

1008
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: And how much of the record was written in the studio.

1009
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: How much the songs were pretty much finished? How do

1010
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: you do it? I probably had six really complete songs

1011
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: and all I finished decent. Man at that uh, that

1012
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: roadway in in Culver City. Um, i'd come rattling, and

1013
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: I've driven out there without the band. I was just

1014
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: driving a van full of gear and I came in.

1015
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: I got I got in just before rush hour, so

1016
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: I was just kind of tense and I got in.

1017
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: I got off the freeway, and first thing I did

1018
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: is fill up my tank because being from Texas, I

1019
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: assume when I go to California there's gonna be an earthquake.

1020
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: Sitting on a freeway for four hours trying to get

1021
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: out of there after the ground stopped shaking, so I

1022
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: better have a full tank. I filled up. Remember it

1023
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: was four dollars and nine cents for gallant regular. Um.

1024
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 1: I went down the street, checked into the motel, went

1025
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: next door and there's a pizza place that had a

1026
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: decent glass of all back and so just kind of

1027
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 1: recovering from that freeway. And then but I said that

1028
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: they're playing on the sound sets and they're playing all

1029
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: the most obnoxious hits from the seventies and eighties, and

1030
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 1: I can't enjoy it, and I'm just about to leave

1031
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: and just leave the wine on the counter and leave,

1032
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: and hear Freddie Mercury, You're saying, Mama, I just killed

1033
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: him man like. And then I remembered that decent man

1034
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: song that I started ten years ago and thought, Okay,

1035
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: now I gotta go back and finish that thing. So

1036
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: I did. That's that's how I wounded up on the record,

1037
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: because that the story, that song story came from a

1038
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: short story by Wendell Berry called Pray Without Ceasing, and

1039
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: I had read that and for some reason I started

1040
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: putting it the song from a different point of view.

1041
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: I put it from the murderer's point of view, and

1042
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: but basically just changed the season of the year and

1043
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: the chambering of the pistol. Otherwise, that's Wendell's story. And

1044
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: I actually I sent him a letter later saying, Hey,

1045
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: you want song credit on this. You want to write

1046
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: a credit because it's your story, And he said, no,

1047
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: it's a different medium. He left me. He left me

1048
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: a real nice voicemail about it. Cool. Now, anybody you've

1049
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: seen you live with the band knows you're quite a

1050
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: lead guitar player. Ultimately, David Grissom is brought in by

1051
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: Ross on this record. What was the backstory there and

1052
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: how much of the playing was you and how much

1053
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: was playing with somebody else? Very little of the playing

1054
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: was me. Um, it's not I'm not used to trying

1055
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: to track as a four piece, and the songs are

1056
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 1: so fresh that you know, I was just getting in

1057
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: the way. So I just put the guitar down and

1058
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: just sang to lead the session. And you know, and

1059
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: I'm not not that great in the studio, and I say,

1060
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, if you're slowing a session down, you gotta

1061
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: cut out whatever slow You gotta keep the session moving

1062
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: as the main rule. And Grissom's the studio guy, so

1063
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, he played most of the guitar. I played

1064
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: that that little hook on uh Glass on Fort Walton,

1065
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: the own thing on the right, and a little bit

1066
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: of acoustic guitar on Conola Fields, and I did the

1067
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: solo on I'm About Cattle. But now it's a studio record,

1068
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, So when you're at home, when you're not

1069
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: on the road, do you pick up the guitar or

1070
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 1: you're checked out? When you're home. I do now, it's weird.

1071
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: For a long time I didn't touch a guitar if

1072
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting paid too. It was like, at some

1073
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: point the guitar became work. I'm starting to come out

1074
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: of that mentality now. Or I'll pick up a guitar

1075
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: and just you know, play for twenty minutes, half hour.

1076
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: And I always feel better after I do it. But

1077
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: for a while there, I'd have to force myself to start.

1078
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: And if you have to do it all over again,

1079
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: would you choose this career path? Yeah? I believe I would.

1080
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: And how do you feel about your body of work?

1081
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: I I don't think about it much. It's the work

1082
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: in front of me that matters. Really, it's maintaining the

1083
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: ability to keep creating. Well, do you have a peak

1084
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: that you can mentally conjure you say, I want to

1085
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: I want to push the envelope a little bit more here,

1086
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: reach a certain height. I just want to continue And

1087
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: that usually means improving, at least slightly as you go.

1088
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: And what have you improved that as you're going on

1089
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: for thirty years, I've improved it singing a good bit,

1090
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: and that in turn has improved my writing Um. There

1091
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: was a point in the nineties when I would go,

1092
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: I'd start out on the road and we do a

1093
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: couple of days, and usually the third gig I would

1094
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: lose my voice entirely and I have to just kind

1095
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 1: of croak through the set somehow make it there and

1096
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: then somehow would come back forth or fifth gig. Well,

1097
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: my bass player at the time, Ronnie Johnson, said, James,

1098
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, I know a good vocal coach. Just go

1099
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: get some vocal training so you get some some exercises

1100
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: so you don't lose your voice anymore and you don't

1101
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: have to struggle like that. So I did, and uh,

1102
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: I went. I went to Maydi case she's actually credited

1103
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 1: on this record, because I went back for a tune

1104
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: up so I could hit some of those high notes

1105
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: that I was clamming. And but one of the things

1106
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: I learned from Maydie is looking for vowels and consonants

1107
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: that sing well. If you know what sings easy, you

1108
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: will write better because you will write for a singer.

1109
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter so much in poetry or

1110
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: anything spoken word, but if you're writing for for the

1111
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: vocal instrument, then you want to pick your words you want.

1112
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 1: You want to pick words that roll off the tongue,

1113
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: that don't tongue tie you or hang you up or

1114
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: choke your voice off in any way. So yeah, it

1115
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: say vocal training has really improved my songwriting more than

1116
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: anything else. So you stated earlier you're not much of

1117
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,439
Speaker 1: a reader, but then you quote Tennis and you quote

1118
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: the other person you based the song on. You talk

1119
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: about reading the wappo. How do you spend your time

1120
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: when you're not working? Oh, I do a lot of

1121
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 1: staring into space. But I used to hunt and fish

1122
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm trying to get back into that. UM

1123
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: lately evans spending a lot of time cooking for appraisers.

1124
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: I'm sort of the wagon Boston Wagon wagon cook on

1125
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: the appraisal crew. And then, uh, how much TV do

1126
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: you watch? I don't watch any TV. UM. TV frustrates me.

1127
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: In the cabal era, in the satellite era, there's just

1128
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: too much. I was an avid watcher of Johnny Carson.

1129
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: When Carson went off the air, I just kind of

1130
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: never reconnected with the TV set. And how about all

1131
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: these streaming TV shows? The new era of television starting

1132
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: with the Sopranos. Some of that I did catch some

1133
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: of the Sopranos in various hotel rooms. I never I

1134
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: don't think I ever watched the whole episode all the

1135
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: way through, because it would always be you know that,

1136
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: flip it on and we got a half hour or

1137
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: four we gotta go to sound check that sort of thing. Um,

1138
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: but that's that was good TV. And then some of

1139
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 1: the uh and my son will will set me down

1140
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: and make me watch stuff every now and and I

1141
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: thought Justified was amazing some of those episodes. So you'll

1142
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: check into a hotel and you'll stare into the distance

1143
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: and let your mind come up with stuff. Yeah, yeah,

1144
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: pretty much. Or I'll catch up on emails that sort

1145
01:08:56,280 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: of thing. And then spending a life in hotel rooms.

1146
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: You know, the roadway in is not the four seasons,

1147
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: as long as there's a bed, or do you have

1148
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: a certain level you don't like to go below, or

1149
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: you just see this pain of being on the road. Um, well,

1150
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: there are certain regions where the roadway ends about what

1151
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: we can afford. L A is a roadway in town

1152
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: for us. Now, I didn't used to be. We used

1153
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: to stay at the farmer's daughter. Farmers daughters went four

1154
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: dollars a night. Now you know we're not gonna do that. Um.

1155
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: There there was a great period where I could do

1156
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: I got real good at price Line, but then price

1157
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: Land took away the name of your own price function

1158
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: that put them on the map initially. So I don't

1159
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: really bother with that anymore. But price Land was great

1160
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: for a while. The main thing for me is proximity

1161
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: to the gig. If a nice hotel is going to

1162
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: add a half hour in a van back and forth,

1163
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: maybe a full hour after you've already driven a while,

1164
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: I don't want that. I want to limit the van time. Uh.

1165
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 1: Of course, like this tour here, this is a COVID tour.

1166
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: We're not doing hotels, we're basing out of airbnbs. So

1167
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: do you view yourself as suey generous just off on

1168
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 1: the landscape, Were part of the American scene or part

1169
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 1: of the continuum? Where do you see in terms of context?

1170
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 1: I don't think about it. And it's nice if there

1171
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: is a category somebody can put me in, because that

1172
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: usually sells more records, gets you a little more exposure. Um,

1173
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 1: it would probably be nicer if I were if I

1174
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: could make my own category like Willie Nelson, you know,

1175
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: somebody like that. But I'm kind of ambivalent about the

1176
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: whole thing right now, because you know, one of the

1177
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: problems with it, with with any kind of artistic field,

1178
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: is you gotta get famous. And um, the meager level

1179
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: of fame that I have attained up to this point

1180
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: can be as enough of a pain in the ass

1181
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: if I if I got bigger, it might be a

1182
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: problem for me. One thing about today, it's very hard

1183
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: to make new fans. Are you conscious of trying to

1184
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 1: make new fans? Do you think you're making them? How

1185
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: do you get them? What's your viewpoint on that. I'm

1186
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: not consciously trying to get them, because I wouldn't know how.

1187
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:38,520
Speaker 1: But I have been lucky that my crowd is multi generational,

1188
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: and I'm playing to the grandchildren of people that were

1189
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:47,480
Speaker 1: in my crowd thirty years ago, some of them. Um,

1190
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: and I've seen that. I've had people tell me that,

1191
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 1: oh yeah, my parents turn me me onto your stuff,

1192
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, we need that. That's probably why we're

1193
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 1: still going down the road. And as you still go

1194
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: down the road, I'm gonna let you go here, James,

1195
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: thanks so much for giving us the backstory. And the

1196
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 1: insight and taking the time. Well, thank you, Bob, thanks

1197
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: for your help over the years. I'm a big fan.

1198
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know you're we met back in that

1199
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,320
Speaker 1: was the complex, and we met at the Complex, and

1200
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: we also met at McCabe's one of your acoustic gigs. Yeah,

1201
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 1: I remember you were doing candy Land at the Complex.

1202
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: I was definitely there with Mike, Yeah, Mike and Ross right,

1203
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: But then you know you're stuck with those guys. You

1204
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: know you're a loyal dude. But you know, I'm a

1205
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: big fan. I'm always interested in what you have to do.

1206
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: And it's hard to listen to new music, not so

1207
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 1: much because I'm baked into the old. The people tend

1208
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: to either be repeating themselves or resting on their laurels.

1209
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: And when I found amazing about your new problem is

1210
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: you're speaking from an adult perspective, whereas so many people

1211
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 1: from your generation and older refused to do that. They

1212
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: want to say, well, if I don't get old, you know,

1213
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 1: I can fool people and you can't relate to him.

1214
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:18,799
Speaker 1: And I couldn't fool the kids my way. They're too sharp. Okay,

1215
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: thanks again, until next time. This is Bob Left. SIDS,