WEBVTT - Jamie Dimon 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.119 The world's best known banker is Jamie Diamond, the longtime 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.880 CEO of JP Morgan. I had a chance to meet 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.680 with Jamie Diamond recently to talk about what's going on 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:13.720 in the financial world. He said he didn't want to 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.880 be Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, but maybe would 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:22.200 take a call to being Secretary of the Treasury. So 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.320 recently you've been talking about the importance of the United 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.560 States and are celebrating our two hundred and fiftieth but 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.960 also investing in things that are security related. What made 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.680 you focus on that and you're now going to commit 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.479 what a build trullion and a half dollars over the 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.320 next ten years for this kind of investment. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.519 Why did you decide to do that? 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.400 Yeah, so I've always been a patriot, and like you know, 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.600 you took here about growth, you know, growing the economy 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.199 and the grievances of Americas, which is a lot of 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.240 legitimates we're going to deal with and get policy right. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.000 But one of them was this notion that we ended 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:58.200 up being so reliant on other people, some potential adversaries 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.160 for things critical to the security of the United States, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.360 and it wasn't just us it's our allies too. So 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.520 we did some real research Acrourse twenty eight industry groups. 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:09.000 And you're talking about rare earths, which you all know about, 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.679 active pharmaceutical ingredients somebody may know about, you know, obviously 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.720 military production, drones, air cyber or satellite what are the 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.080 things you need for resiliency that we already did a 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.679 lot of it, and we wanted to do more, realizing 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.600 it was an important thing to do. How we got here, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.039 I don't like crinervers builled milk, but we should never 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.160 have been here. So that's two and a half dollars. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:31.960 My guesses will be quite a bit more than that 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.280 by the time we're done. We've had a deluge of 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:36.920 interest in it. Then we have We hired Todd Colms, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.679 who's just a world class investor and a world class 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.880 person who's got his own day lous coming in to 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.720 invest ten billion and probably more. And we certainly probably 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.960 have partners in that in helping companies with growth capital 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.160 they need to grow to build the next plans or something. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.240 We did real research and supply chains. There's a lot 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.960 of companies that provide what's important for basic important military 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.440 equipment that need help to grow there. They could be 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.680 private companies or bigger companies. There's a venture capital component. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.600 We're also going to do research, so think around the 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.440 ship building ecosystem. UH. And then and policy. A lot 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.680 of things that are wronger policy reasons, how we how 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.760 we're allowed to procure in the military, UH, things like 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.799 permitting EPA laws. You know, if you want to keep 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.079 this country safe and secure, we need to do this work. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.160 We need to do it now and right away. It 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:32.080 also will be extended to you know, nations in Europe, Australia, Japan, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.760 South Korea. And it's just important to do a national 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.119 security you know, if you didn't, if you didn't get 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.960 the wake up call in February when you know three 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.760 hundred thousand Russian troops in Van and Ukraine, you know, 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.320 the world's not safe. It was never safe. We just 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.560 got loads of the false sense of security. The big, 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.400 biggest safety to have is the strongest military in the planet. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.400 When the Great Recession happened, were you worried about the 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.200 viability of our financial system? 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:56.480 Your bank was in pretty good shape. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.679 Where we worried that more than many investment banks and 0:02:58.720 --> 0:02:59.920 commercial bank want to go under. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.360 At that time, well a lot of them, did you know. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.200 And yeah, a lot of companies around the world, a 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.520 lot of non banks around the world went bankrupt, you know, 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:10.200 JP Morgan. We did a lot to keep people afloat. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:11.840 We took a lot of risks to do that. We 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.160 work with governments around the world. It was it was terrifying, 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.760 and it was you know, twenty four to seven, and 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.320 you know, people just trying to do the right thing 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:20.960 to make sure, you know, we kept through. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:22.480 Do you think there's a chance of something like that 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.359 happy next couple of years, you think we're much better 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.000 protected from that kind of problem. 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.520 Well, there's there's no chance that you're gonna have that 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.120 kind of problem, but you know, there are chances to 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.920 have a problem somewhere somehow. You know. The biggest unknown 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.800 is is geopolitics, you know, And it's not like you 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.040 have to be dangerous, you carefully you talk about it's 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.520 not like that's going to determine what the economy does 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:47.960 in twenty twenty six, but it is a moving tectonic plate, 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.080 you know, alliances. You know, obviously there's terrible war in Ukraine, 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.000 which we need to do as much as we can 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.800 to help Ukraine. But aid and embedded by an Russia 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.880 and Russia somewhat by China. Those folks have told you 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.440 they want to do. They want to dismantle the system 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.360 set up they think by America, but they're set up 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.560 by the Western world after World War two has been 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.960 quite successful. Yeah, there are a lot of forces at play, 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.800 and you know, and people are going to have to choose, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.960 you know, how they want to play this, play this 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.040 for now. So yeah, that would be my greatest concern, 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.159 and that's about the future of the free democratic world. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:22.800 That's not just about America. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.800 Are you worried about the over regulation that some people 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:27.760 in the banking world think that is occurring now or 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.600 do you think the regulations are okay? 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:29.919 Now? 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.120 The problem with regulations when you talk to some people, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.080 it's always act like it's more or less well and 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.240 a lot of you deal with regulations. I think you 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.000 can create more liquidity in the system, you know, more 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.080 capital uses, more learning capability, reduced rules and regulations which 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.520 cause there was complaints about debanking and complaints about X. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.960 I think we could make the system better work, better, cheaper, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.359 work for more Americans, and safer. What bothers me the 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.440 most is when we talk about regulations that no one 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.000 ever steps back and say, what are we trying to accomplish? 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:01.520 So why do we want to accomplish it? And what's 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.839 better this or that? Because no matter what you do, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.640 their pros and cons banks are very strong today. But 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.840 take the system as a whole. We've gone from eight 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.719 thousand public companies to four thousand public companies. Is that 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.560 what we wanted? Because that's what we did. We did 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.800 it with no forethought, without even thinking about it. But 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.560 it was you know, years of rules and regulations that 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.600 made it costly and litigious and hard. And you know, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.080 we let institutes like ISS and Glass Lewis, you know, 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.880 vote thirty percent of their shares in America, you know, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.640 and and so yeah, I'm quite concerned about that. We 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.799 get regulations right, we all want safe financial systems, safe food, 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:38.680 and safe but it doesn't mean you have to have 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.400 endless regulations, regulations to be reviewed and improved all the time, 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.920 as opposed to what we do today. I put that 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:46.880 in a lot of policy, we just add things on 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.119 top of things. And if you look at policy in America, well, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.120 affordable housing, it's all about policy, you know, zoning policies, 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.960 permitting policies, housing policies. You know, it's all about policy. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:05:59.640 It's got not a damn thing to do that. People 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.240 don't want to build homes or move into homes, you know, 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:04.560 and I guess say it's about a mortgage business. We 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.640 made it more expensive because the rules and regulations. Education. 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.560 You know, we don't measure the outcomes of high schools 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.599 and community colleges and colleges, how many jobs they get 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.520 at what income levels. And we can do it. So 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.000 look at work skills. We're gonna need two hundred thousand welders. 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.719 We need welding in schools. So if governments canna have policies, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.080 have policy that aids and abets and sense and has 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.839 the guardrails to create the right behaviors, you know, not 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.000 endless policies that like slow things down, which is what 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.080 we have. You know, we're going we're slowly going the 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.800 way Europe. You know Europe. You may not know this 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.440 has gone from ninety percent per person GDP of America 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.320 to sixty five percent. That's what they've done. It was 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.840 all policy. A lot of the policy is done in 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.400 the name of good and that's what we do all 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.400 the time. We're endless. You know, rules and regulations that 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.880 create these things. I also think you all should learn 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.880 to call it not red tape but blue tape. Okay, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.680 the Democrats love that crap, and then they want to 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.200 make it litigious. You know that every flaw, however, that 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.960 ever happens, is on purpose by by bad people. So policy, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:09.880 we need good policy, and we're gonna be fighting much 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.160 more for good policy this year at JP Morgan. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.960 Now, are you worried about the size of the US debt? 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.280 We have thirty eight trillion dollars of debt. We're adding 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.640 two trillion every year. Do you see any way that's 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.400 going to be solved? And do you worry that this 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.280 is going to impact the value of the dollar at 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:23.720 some point? 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.320 So if you look at the economy today, there's a 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.720 lot of good short term things, like think of this year. 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:29.960 You know, the one big beautiful bill. There's a lot 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.000 of stimulus they've fed is buying bonds again, that's you know, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.400 they don't call it Q I would, but it lifts 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:41.600 up asset prices and stabilizes certain markets. Uh, Deregulation is real, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.480 and it's going to also drive animal spirits. A lot 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.120 of investment coming to the United States and AI. That's 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.760 all good, and that's probably going to drive stuff there 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.520 are I call this geopolitics, and the deficit. I call 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.920 it more like tectonic plates. They're difficult, they're moving, they 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.520 may crash. We don't know, and we don't know when. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.120 So it isn't a twenty twenty six issue. But our 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.880 deficit is almost two trillion dollars this year. Total dead 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.360 is thirty trillion, then next year thirty two, then thirty 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.360 four and thirty seven, then forty. It is not sustainable. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.640 It will not work eventually. I just don't know when. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.760 That is. The best anecdote is growth. I mean, if 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.720 you just model anything, growth will make up for it. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:26.920 And that and growth could I always tell people a 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.800 good policy is free, like we already spent eight hundred 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.600 billion dollars in K to twelve, you know, stopping Piel 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.679 from building stuff. It's free. It will create jobs, will 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.320 create productivity, and so we have time to get the 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.120 policy right to grow the economy, and then we have 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:43.760 to start making some other choices too. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.080 Those are President of the United States said I'd like 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.960 you to be Secretary of the Treasury. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.880 Or chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. What would you 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:50.240 say to. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.360 That, Well, Chairman of the Fed, I'd put in the 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:57.600 absolutely positivity, no chance, no way, no how for any reason. Okay, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.480 Secretary Treasury, I would considering if a president calls you 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.440 up and asks you to do something, you know you 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.920 should consider it. So I would take the call and 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.880 consider it and think about why and what they want, etc. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.920 But what they want and how they want to operate, 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.240 that would be important to me. I like my job. 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.040 I've been my own boss for pretty much twenty five years, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:17.960 and I like it that way. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.719 So recently there's been some comment by you about the 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.600 independence of the Federal Reserve Board. What more might you 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.920 want to say about your view about the importance of 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:28.480 the independence of the Federal Reserve Board? 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.959 Yeah, you know, there are people too much incets building 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.400 certain things. Everyone I know, including the President and United States, 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.560 says we need an independent FED board. The question is 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.599 only about when certain things take place, and think of 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:43.640 lawsuits and stuff like that, does it chip away at 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.959 that independence. It's some spectrum. So you can say a 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.080 little bit, you can say a lot, but you don't 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:49.880 want to chip away too much because if you chip 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.199 away too much. In my view, this is my opinion. 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.120 It will drive rates higher, not lower. That's all. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:57.480 That's not a job you would take. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.480 If the President United States said to you, I'd love 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.920 you to be a You'll be very independent, you wouldn't 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:02.240 think that. 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.760 I would so much more prefer this job than that job. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:06.760 That's a hard job, but I don't want to do 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:07.200 that job. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.640 You went to Harvard Business School graduate as a Baker scholar, 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.520 top five percent of your class. You could have gone 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.760 to Goldman, Sachs, Morgan, Stanley, all the famous firms. You 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:17.720 chose to go work for a person who was a 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.840 friend of your father's name is Sandy Wall. You did that, 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.200 and then when Sandy left, you stayed with him, and 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.920 then ultimately you guys went to City Corp. And then 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.040 he fired you. Did you ever think then that you'd 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.120 be coming back and running the most important bank in 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:34.719 the world at the time you got fired there or 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.160 what were you thinking at that time? And I said 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.240 you should come into private equity. I went to see 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.120 you and I said, why don't you come to private equity? 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:42.920 And you you didn't seem that interested. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.120 But the biggest money offer I ever got in My 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.640 life was from this guy over here. It was never 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.600 about money for me. And I knew after I got 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.440 fired that they were going to screw up city because 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.240 I knew how stupid some of the things they were 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.800 doing was. But no, and I didn't. I didn't think 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.720 that way. I just you know, I took time. I 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.079 thought all these various alternatives. I spoke to a lot 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.440 of people, you know, and then I went to bank one. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.840 I loved the home depot guys. They were talking to 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.120 me and but I had to confess to them and 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.720 I walked in. I'd never been in a home depot 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:14.559 until my friend made me go that weekend before I 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.920 had dinner with Arthur Blank, Bernie Marcus and Ken Langhn, 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.200 and I just loved their culture. But I'd never been 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.920 in a merchant business. And you know, bank Wom's there. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:24.439 I thought it was gonna be tough. I put half 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.600 my money into it. I have moved my money in Chicago. 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.520 I loved Chicago. All I thought about is just do 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.400 the best you can. I mean, I don't like it 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.760 when senior people complain. I always had a no wine sign. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.360 Suck it up and do the job. That's that's all 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.200 it was, and that's I just go about the work, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.720 you know, and division by division, person by person, department, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.160 ve part tech by tech, you know, try to build 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.520 something great. I had my eye in JP Morgan Chase, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.120 and you know a couple of years I thought it 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.440 would never happen because we were so small and not 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.880 doing well. But you know, four years later we had, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.960 you know, done a good job at Bank one. The 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.520 values were close enough. Bill Harrison I know each other, 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.679 and we merged the two companies. Then I had a 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.640 dream that if we did it right, we can make 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.240 this a great company. Then I really did like that was. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.080 What do you think is the most important thing you 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.720 did that put JP Morgan ahead of every other bank 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.840 in the world. You worked harder, you hire better people 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.560 around you. What were the things that you think the 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.920 most important thing that made JP Morgan what it is today. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.960 A lot of people do things better, So to say 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.360 we're the best nervatives not right. And I think that's 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.440 one of the reasons. Sometimes we do better a little bit, 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.920 which is I'm relentless, go through system by system by 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.400 system by system, get out in the road, you know, 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.319 visit other companies. They all do things better. Than you learn, learn, learn, learn, learn, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.840 and be runless about doing it. Big companies slow down, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:42.080 they become complacent, they become bureaucratic. All that stuff arrogant, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.440 you know, is the Petri Dish of politics. You know, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.680 Jeff Bezos said, you know, that kind of stuff leads 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.840 to stasis and death. If you don't believe me, you know, 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.120 you look at all the companies who failed, huge wonderful companies. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.680 That's what management is. It's relentless attention to detail, getting 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.000 a strategy right, invest in your capital, not being behold 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.200 the people. But the most important is that the people 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.800 at their company can contribute to the best their ability. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.600 They know that you, the boss, don't know everything, and 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:10.880 they know that you just want to do the right 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.960 thing for the company, the client, of the community. And 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.760 that's the only goal. There's no other goal. We don't 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.840 pand it to Wall Street about quarterly earnings or stuff 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.240 like that. I've I've never spent any time in that 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.719 in my life. Just try to do the right thing 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.520 for the right reason, and do it quickly. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:30.040 Your market capitalization is up about I guess it's about 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:34.160 the seven percent, and your stock price up about five 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:34.760 hundred percent. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.600 Or something like that, like a thousand percent, but go ahead, right, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.080 how much? Well we pay back. We put back a 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.559 lot of talk and paid a lot of dividends and 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:41.880 all of that. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.280 So yeah, so it's pretty good, tom So. People are 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.320 very happy. And so the question you get asked every day, 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.079 five times a day is how much longer do you 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.480 want to do this? And the answer is five more years? Yeah, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.320 at least about five more years. 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.000 I love what I do. It's up to the board 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.520 how long I do it? Although I have the energy 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.640 and the spit in the eye and the fire and 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:04.920 the gut. Yeah, I want to do it. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.440 You recently built a new building in New York. Why 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.160 did you decide to build your headquarters in New York? 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.560 You tore down the building you had built a new building, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.959 took a couple of years and costs maybe three billion 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.640 dollars or something like that, and it's now open. Are 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.840 you happy you made that decision? And are you going 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:21.440 to build a similar building in London? 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.560 Now? Yeah, we are. So if you look at what 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.440 we have. We spend forty billion dollars year on people, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.920 which is important, four billion dollars a year on real estate. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.440 We want to have great real estate. The old building 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.840 wasn't fit for purpose. It was too small, couldn't handle 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.960 our trading floors. I'd looked everywhere. I looked downtown, I 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.280 looked a hundred yards. I looked at buying Vanderbilt. But 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.000 we could tear that building down. We could buy air rights, 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.040 you know. I thought it was the best location in 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:48.760 the best city. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.640 Many people in the business world, they're out socializing all 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:54.920 kinds of other organizations. 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:55.760 You don't do anything. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.360 You just run your bank and you spend time with 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:57.840 your family. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:58.480 Isn't that boring? 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.040 No, my family, I love all of them. I got 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.560 seven grandkids and one more coming. We take our family 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.680 vacations together. That's the most important thing. The second most 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.480 important is my country that I do spend time on, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:13.480 you know, with my own time, my own effort. My 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.920 company obviously gets involved. I love business. I think if 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:18.280 I you know, she's talk about, I don't do a 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.840 lot of black ties. I don't play golf, I don't 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.320 do red carpets. I do a little bit, you know, 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:25.640 But I love what I do. I mean, it's not 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.520 like I don't feel like I have any regrets at 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.720 all about doing that. And I feel. You know, if 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.920 JP Morgan Chase does well, I could help our employees. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.080 I help my clients, I help my communities, I help 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.160 my country, I help the world if I do a 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.600 good job. You know, I always tell people, you know, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.040 if we don't keep j more healthy and vibrant, I 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.920 cannot do those things. That's on the other side of that. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.280 I lay people off. It's miserable. Your life is terrible, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.920 and so I fight hard to make sure we're healthy 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:51.400 and vibrant. 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.000 Warren Buffett more or less invented the idea of writting 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.280 a letter to shareholders that everybody reads. You have done 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.600 the same and now warmed by if it's probably not 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.600 going to write, is there anymore and yours is widely read? 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.200 How much time do you put into writing that letter? 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.160 And do you get nervous that so many people are 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:09.680 going to pay attention to every single word? 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.080 You have to get it exactly right? 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.600 Yeah? I do all of that. So I bereaing his 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.440 letters my whole life. And in fact I got his 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.480 letters from nineteen fifty six when it was a partnership 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.200 in private, and he said, you just speach to your show 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.840 like your smart sister or mother or something like that. 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.600 Explain to them what you're doing and why you're doing it. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.600 So I do that. I make a list of questions. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.840 I get the questions, I do it myself. I ask shareholders, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.600 I get my management team, or like what is the 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.160 most important stuff for JP Morgan and I kind of 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.720 make that list, I start writing. I spent a lot 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.360 of time on it. Very often. I used to answer 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.200 the question I don't know the answer, and I actually 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.520 do the work. So now I'm like doing a lot 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.000 of research while I'm writing the letter to answer the question. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.680 What are we going to do? Is what we did 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.560 the right thing? Should we do more of it? How 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.320 are you going to use it? You know, AI or 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.440 open banking? Whatever the question is debanking? What is the 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.800 real issue? Then I try to explain it in terms 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.640 to our people. And then I started doing public policy 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:12.639 because no bank is actually stronger, much stronger than the 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.879 country that lives in America. From twenty to twenty twenty 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.520 grow two percent a year. Had it grown three percent 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.120 a year, which I think was eminently achievable, our GDP 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.639 per person would be twenty thousand dollars more a year 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.080 today per person, which would afford a lot of safety nets, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.800 a lot of infrastructure, had a lot of taxes, and 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.720 we didn't do it. And it's around, you know, basic things. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:37.520 So I started to do more of that. What are 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.400 the things that we could do that can force the growth, 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.200 secure the country, make it healthier place, lift up all 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.119 of our citizens. Almost all of the bad policies. We have, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.520 the thing that inner city schools don't work, immigration policy, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.800