WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 032622 Driving While Black Part 1 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.160 Welcome to another episode of Civic Sipher. I'm your host, 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:04.640 ramses Jah. 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:06.800 I'll go by the name q Ward. The Q is 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.799 for Quenton, not Quentin. That's important. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.560 You got to make sure they know that indeed, and 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.759 we are backup in you Onemogain this week. We have 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.880 some more good news, but you're gonna have to stick 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.319 around for it. Stay tuned because in the latter part 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.800 of the show, we are going to be talking about 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:34.360 what is known as the Crown Act. Basically, the House 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:40.520 passed a piece of legislation. I was getting this word 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.720 mixed up. Legislation I believe is the right way to 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:50.839 say it that protects people with ethnic hairstyles. I'll have 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.800 a lot to say about that, obviously. Well this is radio, 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:56.400 so you don't know how my hair looks, but I 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.960 have a lot of hair and yeah, but that's some 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.640 good news and it doesn't involve people getting hurt or dying, 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:08.399 and so I'm very much looking forward to the second 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.120 part of the show. The first part of the show, however, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.240 is business as usual. We will be talking about traffic 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.880 stops and then we have a couple of cases specifically 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.160 that we're going to discuss as well as share some 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.319 personal experiences. But you know, there are a lot of 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:36.800 people who don't realize just how much traffic stops plague 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.800 black people and black communities. And this is the place 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:41.240 where we have to talk about it. We have to 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:46.520 share that information so that people understand what it's like 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:51.400 and that perhaps our traffic stops aren't as cut and 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.840 dry as yours may be. But first order of business, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.360 like we always do at this time, it is to 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.320 talk about some ebony X. How does that sound cute? 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.400 I think we shall talk about some ebny excellence given 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:06.080 to the people. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.160 Boom, all right. So Elijah Presley Baton Rouge is the 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:16.200 youngest full ride scholarship recipient from Southern University. He's just 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.040 fourteen years old. He is a child prodigy, striving to 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.680 learn all that he can while preparing for his last 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.120 few semesters at the HBCUs. A quote from him says, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.240 you have to have a mindset to actually know. Hey, 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.240 I have to learn this. My life depends on it. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.000 This is what he told ABC News again quote act 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.320 like your life depends on it, because it does. When 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.600 you learn, you increase your life. He is a double 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:43.760 major in physics and chemical engineering. Presley's pursuits transcend his 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.799 academic career. He's hosted a weekly radio show, been featured 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:51.320 in various national outlets, including a Cartoon Network special. He's 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.680 a published author of two books, A Prodigy, My Secrets 0:02:55.040 --> 0:03:01.959 and Mission Christian God's First, God's Got First Coloring Book Edition. Additionally, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.560 while breaking records and making history, the teenager is an 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.520 inventor at heart. He's already applied for more than FI 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.120 pattents for his inventions. As he rises to the occasion, 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:16.120 Presily is more focused on changing lives. This comes to 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.720 us from Black Enterprise dot com. And you know, sometimes 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:26.320 we talk about titans of industry. Sometimes we talk about inventors, 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.519 we talk about business people, we talk about black girl magic. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.240 You know, that's what Ebony Excellence is all about. But 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.000 I think this is our first child prodigy. You know, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.360 we of course we discuss famous people as athletes and 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.000 so forth, but this kind of felt appropriate, and believe 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:46.400 it or not, we kind of had to wait on 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.640 this one because we had a lot to choose from. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:53.080 So once again, big shout out to Elijah Presley of 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:57.920 Baton Rouge. You are a shining example of Ebony excellence, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.040 and we are grateful to have you as a part 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:09.240 of our show today. Now, traffic stops, all right, So 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:14.600 this comes from the Association for Psychological Science, and of 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.599 course you can look that up if you so choose 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:25.000 to verify these statistics. Traffic stops, which happen approximately fifty 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.719 thousand times each day in the United States, are the 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:32.480 most common interaction between law enforcement and the public. K. 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.720 You ever been pulled over by the police. 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.560 I've been pulled over a few times. Yeah, couple, couple, two, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.279 three times? 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.200 Okay, it's safe to say nobody likes getting pulled over 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:44.360 slightly inconvenient. 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.560 It's inconvenient at best. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:52.080 Yeah, yeah, okay, I'll continue. All other factors being equal, however, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.080 black drivers are more likely than white drivers to be 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.240 stopped by police. Q. Is that new news to you? 0:04:59.279 --> 0:04:59.880 Absolutely? 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:02.919 So you already knew that. 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.039 I did. I've already lived that. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.800 Is it perhaps the case that you already knew that 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.800 because you live a black life? 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.159 Unfortunately, yes, Well. 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.880 As it turns out, not everyone lives a black life, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.880 and so that statistic might be news to some folks. Again, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.000 this is the place where we share it. I'll continue. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:35.120 Two independent articles published in the Journal of Psychological Science, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.560 shed new light on how country wide attitudes toward race 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:43.680 correlate with local policing. Both papers reveal that the greater 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.440 the racial prejudice against black people within a county, the 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:51.280 more often state troopers tend to stop black drivers relative 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.880 to white drivers. Q. Have you ever been pulled over 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.040 in a county by a state trooper? 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.000 Unfortunately I have. And in one of those cases, my 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.719 partner brother, producer and co host Ramsay's Jah was with me. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.839 I was with you, yes, sir, I was with you. Yes. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.599 And that was in Mississippi at night, after we've. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.120 Driven by several hundred Confederate flags. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:24.640 Ooh, that was a tense moment. Indeed, now you remember 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.960 how I was behaving, So you know, we might have 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.560 to tell a little bit of that story again, but 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.280 I'll continue for now. In an accompanying commentary on the 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.680 two papers, lead author Keith Paine, a researcher at the 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.800 University of North Carolina, noted, quote, these findings are part 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.400 of a larger trend in many studies in recent years 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.840 showing that regional differences in measures of race bias are 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.080 associated with important real life disparities. Has long been predicted 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.159 that such associations would be expected based on small scale 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.880 laboratory experiments. It is both validating for theories of modern 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:01.960 prejudice and concerning for society that those predictions are being 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:06.479 born out. Another quote, We should bear in mind that 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:13.120 racial discrimination and inequality are pervasive cultural problems, not a 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.080 handful of weird outliers that only pop up this in 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.480 this or that corner of the country. Said extra. If 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.360 racial attitudes really are the reason for the disparities we see, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.360 it would take large scale changes in cultural attitudes and 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.720 norms to shift them in a matter that would impact 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.200 disparities as well. In addition to considering the psychology and 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.240 behaviors of individual officers, policymakers and the public should consider 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:43.440 whether or how norms and institutional practices shape police officers' behavior. 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:50.520 All right now, this is about getting pulled over, This 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.720 is about traffic stops right now. A lot, I'd say, 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.480 the majority of the stories that we discuss here on 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.160 Civic Cipher, and perhaps even you know, I'd say at 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.800 least half, maybe even the majority of stories that are 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:13.480 shared with respect to black people interacting with police, you know, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:20.520 in the national news arena, have to do with traffic stops. Furthermore, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.480 as the article states, it's true not just for non 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.160 black people, but for black people as well. Perhaps the 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.400 only interaction that many of us will have with police 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.400 in a given year or two three year period is 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.240 in a traffic stop. Most people don't have police come 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.800 to their house. Most people don't, you know, get hemmed 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:43.680 up by the police at the mall or in the 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.080 parking lot. You know, usually they're pulling you over. And 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:53.520 as we've discussed on the show, just to give you 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:59.080 a statistic here, for many years marijuana was illegal, and 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:00.880 in some places of the country tree is still illegal. 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.360 But this kind of shows you the way policing is done, 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:11.520 in how traffic stops can impact poor communities. And today 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:21.320 we're talking about black communities. I'll continue, if police are 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:31.000 heavily posted in black neighborhoods, they are going to more 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.000 than likely pull over more black drivers. 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:34.640 Right. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.720 If black people and white people use marijuana at roughly 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:44.160 the same rates, And there are twenty five police cars 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.200 in the black neighborhood and the black part of town, Anytown, USA, 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.400 and there are six police cars in the white neighborhood. Right, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.760 where do you think you're going to get the bulk 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:01.600 of marijuana arrests, right, If black and white people use 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.520 it approximately the same rate, you know, where are you 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:05.800 going to get the bulk of the arrests? 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:10.240 Go ahead, and it's important to point out that black 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.800 and white people using marijuana at the same rate still 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.720 equals a much larger number of white people using marijuana 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.360 because we are such a we are a much smaller 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.679 percentage of the population. Sure, so the same rate means 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.920 that numbers wise, it's not even. 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:39.040 Close, right exactly. So what happens is, you know, there 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.560 was this we did an episode a few months ago 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.440 where we discussed how numbers are fudged, and you know, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.920 usually it's right, you know, conservatives, right wing conservatives that 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.360 do their best to suggest that black people commit most 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:01.000 of the crimes, right, And that's a false narrative. But 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.920 what perhaps may be true is that black people are 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:10.280 arrested more often than non black people. And we're pointing 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:16.160 at perhaps the reason why. Right now, we're just talking 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.960 about traffic stops here, but you know, traffic stops is 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.600 sort of the precursor to getting your vehicle searched, and 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.080 if you are going about your business doing whatever it 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.200 is that you do, regardless of whatever color you are, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.040 again getting pulled over. It's more likely to happen if 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:39.120 you're black, right, But what if it goes beyond just 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:43.360 an arrest, you know, a civil violation? What if it 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.400 goes beyond that? I'll share a story. This comes from 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.400 the Washington Post. DELAYE. Gordon, a door dash driver, was 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.480 a few hundred yards from his delivery destination when a 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.120 police officer passed him hook do you turn and pulled 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.719 him over for speeding? You remember the story? Qu you 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.679 sent me the video, Yes, sir. On the side of 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:08.439 the road in Collegedale, Tennessee, Gordon politely and repeatedly asked 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.680 to speak to the officer Supervisor, Gordon's attorney says, but 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.480 the situation escalated as the police officer demanded that Gordon 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.199 get out of the car, while Gordon refused. A video 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.960 of the March tenth incident shows get out the police 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.839 officer ordered, pointing a taser at Gordon. According to the video, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.680 the officer, whom the College Dale Police Department has not identified, 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:37.640 accused Gordon of not providing his identification. The video shows, Sir, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:42.160 I feel uncomfortable Gordon said, please get your supervisor. The 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.679 officer then tried to pull Gordon out of the car. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.840 When Gordon did not comply, the officer pulled out his 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.840 taser again. A moment later, video shows the officer used 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:56.720 the taser on Gordon, who screamed in agony. And then 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:02.040 we get a video right now says that the officer 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:03.120 pulled him over for speeding. 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:03.600 Right. 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:12.360 That may be accurate. Right, I'm not trying to say 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.680 that I've never sped before. God knows, I have a 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.520 very fast car. You have a very fast car. You 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:26.680 have a couple of them. So that's the thing. But 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.120 so is driving while black. If you haven't heard of it, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.560 this is a term that's been around. I first heard 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.640 it in the nineties. I'm old enough to have heard 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:47.240 it back then. Driving while black is the suggestion is 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.880 that you were pulled over because you were black, harassed 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:56.480 more than an officer would harass another person because you 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.320 were black, perhaps had your vehicle searched because you were black. 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:09.400 And if you make it home, you're lucky without being 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.280 entered into the system or roughed up or whatever. Now 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.640 I'm from La the LAPD we're known for that in 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.240 the nineties, you know, beating people up, robbing people, all 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.600 this sort of stuff. Haven't lived in LA in sometime, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.280 so I don't want to speak on anything that may 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.240 have happened or in changes that may have happened. But 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.000 I suspect that that culture is a slow changing culture. 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.360 But this is the way I remember driving while black. 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:39.400 So for me and many black people looking at okay, speeding, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:44.760 m all right, maybe you know, we tend to look 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.840 at things like that because we live these lives. In fact, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:49.440 you I might want you to jump in and tell 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:55.080 that story, but you know what happens if you're speeding 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:00.760 and you're not black. Maybe you do and maybe I don't, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.000 but I'm going to guess. My guess is that if 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.520 you ask for a supervisor, you don't get tased for it. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:17.600 There seems to be this idea that exists, not just 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:23.440 with police, but with a lot of white straight. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:25.240 Men. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.560 Dare I say conservative men in this country that they 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:36.880 are entitled to exert some degree of control over black bodies, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:44.000 over women's bodies, over pretty much anything. And if you 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:49.360 don't do that, somehow their freedoms are being challenged or 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.400 their authority is being challenged. It's like a bunch of cardmates. 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:58.680 Right now. If it's a white man, you know, interacting 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:03.120 with another white man, and they're both straight and you know, Christian, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.080 you know, there's no reason for them to have any 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.520 sort of conflict. They seem to get along just fine, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.280 Shake hands, go play golf. Right. This is not me 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.720 picking on white men who are older and straight and Christian, 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.160 because I have many friends who are I've grown up 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.560 around these people. I love these people. But if we're 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.880 painting with broad strokes, police officers tend to fit that description. 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.120 And many of the stories that we've all seen as 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.600 a country have shown that these people feel as though 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.880 they can exert a degree of control over black bodies. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:45.200 That's why this show exists because that's not right. I'll continue. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.000 We'll see if we have time to tell that story too, 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.560 because I think it might be important. There's another story here. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:56.360 CNN recently unsealed video that shows a California man screaming 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:01.680 he's black, by the way, screaming I can't breathe, before 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.800 dying in police custody after a twenty twenty traffic stop. 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.000 Federal judge has unsealed a video taken by the California 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.680 Highway Patrol. It captures the death of Edward Bronstein, thirty 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.600 eight year old man who was in their custody following 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.960 a March twenty twenty traffic stop at Los Angeles County. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.080 He is heard repeatedly telling the officers, I can't breathe 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.679 while pinned on the ground. The CHP California Highway Patrol 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.640 video was released for use in a federal wrongful death 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.040 lawsuit brought by Bronstein's family against the State of California, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.840 CHP and individual officers who were on the scene when 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.399 Bronstein died. No officers have been charged in connection with 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.520 his death. The decision to unseal the video Tuesday was 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.480 made because the public's interest in the conduct of its 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.800 peace officers outweighs other interests and any risk of particular, 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:58.400 particularized harm. US Magistrate Judge John McDermott explained in this order, 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:03.720 that's another BABA. US Magistrate Judge John McDermott. You know, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.960 usually the police officers have the judges in their pocket 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.119 and vice versa, you know what I mean. But this 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.240 guy says, Nope, We're going to show this video to 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.440 the people because they deserve to see it. 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.359 And I don't know if in their pocket is the 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.760 right way to phrase that, because that makes it seem 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.840 like they're being paid off in some way. They're just 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:26.199 typically on the same team. Yeah, yeah, okay, and it's explicit, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.159 like if he said you were speeding, you were speeding. 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.280 There's nothing for us to talk about, you know what 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.280 I mean. Like, they're typically just on the same page. 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.440 So when they're challenged in ways that should be standard 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.439 operating procedure, it stands out to us because it's not. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:47.560 They're typically in lockstep, same way, regardless of any overwhelming 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.120 evidence to the contrary. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.440 You know, I'm glad you said that, because a better 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.920 way to say it is, you know, judges and really 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.239 the whole criminal justice system, they all tend to have 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.720 a shared idea of what justice is. Now, I'm not 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:10.560 talking about the Constitution. I'm talking more about what to enforce, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.880 how to interpret you know, who it was written to protect, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.720 like the more abstract components. Because if you just read 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.000 the Constitution verbatim, you read the law of verbatim, you 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.760 know they're pretty clear, right or you one would think, 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:32.960 but they're not applied equally inequitably across all places in society, 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:38.080 and this is another reason why this show exists. I'll 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.960 continue the lawsuit filed in the Central District of California. 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:48.440 Alleged officers used quote excessive and objectively unreasonable force against Bronstein, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:54.120 who was quote unarmed, restrained, and surrounded by uniformed peace 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.960 officers end quote. That excessive force was quote also a 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:04.720 result of the neglig employment, negligent retention, and negligent supervision 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:11.320 of the officers by the CHP. Now getting pulled over, 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.240 We've seen how the traffic stop can result in death, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.200 and that's a very scary thing for black people, right, 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.480 but now you know the frequency is disproportionate if you're black. 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.000 Now you understand the concept driving while black. If you 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.720 wanted to learn more about it, please google it. And 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:38.040 now feels like yet another opportunity for us to share 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.600 our story. Now we just have a minute or so 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:46.200 here to do it. But ch why don't you start 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.200 us off and tag me in. I'll jump in and 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:48.920 round us out. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.240 I'm going to tell the super condensed version of the 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.159 story because we've shared it multiple times and as you 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.639 can imagine, it's upsetting to relive and recount. Ramses and 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:06.160 I were pulled over for what I wouldn't even consider misdemeanor. Right, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:11.159 there are on most highways in America indentations in the 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.600 road to keep drivers from swerving off the road and 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.199 or falling asleep while driving. They make a vibration that 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.639 you can feel and hear that will alert you that 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.200 you're swerving or going across a lane and or off 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.360 the side of the road if you were to doze off. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.760 I think that's the point of those things. On a 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:36.280 late night driving across the southern United States, Ramses and 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.600 I drove across those things. I call them rumble strips 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.280 where we live. Those things are on the side of 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.560 the road. In Mississippi, however, they are in the middle 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.879 of the road, so if you get over into a lane, 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:56.440 you will drive across those things. And a state trooper, 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.440 a highway patrol officer, and I think a sheriff may 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.240 have all heard us for a fraction of a second 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.080 drive across those and pull us over. Now, I'm assuming 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.520 we got pulled over because maybe they thought we were 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:15.760 either dozing off or had been drinking. We're driving under 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.680 the influence, and this is why we were quote unquote swerving, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.719 which is not the case. But upon about thirty seconds 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.160 of conversation with us, it should have been reasonably clear 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.160 to anybody whose eyes and ears worked that we were 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.960 not under the influence and that we were just fine. 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.840 Neither of us have ever had a drink, and on 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:39.560 that day had just purchased a new car. The new 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.680 car point is very very important to point out because 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.439 after talking to us, asking us to get out of 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.879 the car, and physically searching the car themselves, the officers 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:55.800 then felt it necessary to bring drug dogs to further 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.359 look for drugs or contraband in the new vehicle that 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.119 we had just all right, let me jump in, let 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:03.760 me jump in right here, and I'll round this out. 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:10.040 So that is an example of driving while black. You 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.640 see how the situation was escalated. They pulled us over 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.359 for nothing. No one was harm whatever. They checked the 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:19.600 car out. We're clearly not drinking. Q has never had 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.679 alcohol in his life, neither have I. We've never done drugs. 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.520 Neither of us have never done any drug in our life. Right, 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.280 very obvious as soon as the officer approaches a car. 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:33.520 But because we look like us, let's get the drug 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:39.640 dogs out here. You know, and we have a right 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.240 to be afraid. We were composed at this interaction, but 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:46.879 it was terrifying, right, I understand why people run away 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.280 because it's very scary when they have those dogs and 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:51.080 they're you know, look, these guys are going to make 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:51.919 up something about us. 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:52.600 They were gonna do. 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.320 You know, I'll take my chances trying to run through 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:55.760 these woods. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:56.000 You know. 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.959 I obviously I didn't do that, but I see how 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.240 a person who pays NIX might do that, despite how 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:07.359 innocent they are. So this is the reality of driving 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:10.800 while black. This is the reality of getting pulled over. 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.320 And you're talking to two people who have a shared experience. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.520 I'm not talking about my own individual experiences of driving. 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:21.720 I've been driving since I was sixteen, you know, same 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.040 as Q and same as anyone else who was black 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.159 or even people are not black. But the point is 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:34.440 that those interactions tend to be very scary. And now 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:39.199 we can point at numbers that tell us why, or 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:41.439 tell other people Black people we already know why, but 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:45.200 might tell non black people why it's so scary. And 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.800 also a couple of stories, a couple of examples of 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:52.200 things that we weren't able to share in previous episodes, 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:56.000 but also point to this issue that says, hey, sometimes 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:00.000 these interactions get escalated and people end up losing their life. 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:03.920 So we'll leave it right there. Stick around your radios. 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:05.960 We're coming back with more Cipic cipher right after this