WEBVTT - #434 Maggie Freleng with Kim Hoover

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<v Speaker 1>It was the day after Thanksgiving in two thousand and two,

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<v Speaker 1>and Kim Hoover's Home daycare center in Columbus, Ohio was

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<v Speaker 1>bustling that afternoon. She was caring for three children along

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<v Speaker 1>with her thirteen year old son Bo. Around three o'clock,

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<v Speaker 1>two more girls were dropped off by their father as

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<v Speaker 1>he was on his way to work, two year old

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<v Speaker 1>Dorica and seven month old Samasha. Kim had been caring

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<v Speaker 1>for them for about three months. Samisha was asleep in

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<v Speaker 1>her car seat, so Kim moved her to a crib

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<v Speaker 1>and let her nap while she fed the other kids.

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<v Speaker 1>After a couple of hours, she went to wake the baby.

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<v Speaker 2>I took her snowsued off. I went to try to

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<v Speaker 2>give her a bottle, and that's when I realized that

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<v Speaker 2>she looked lethargic and that she really couldn't hold her

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<v Speaker 2>head up.

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<v Speaker 1>Alarmed, Kim quickly called nine one one and then administered CPR.

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<v Speaker 1>When paramedics arrived, they couldn't revive Semasha. She was rushed

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<v Speaker 1>to the hospital.

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<v Speaker 2>We never did find out that night what happened to Summasias.

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<v Speaker 2>And then December twentieth, I woke up, took my son

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<v Speaker 2>to school, and then came home and then there was

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<v Speaker 2>a knock on the door and Schwatt was there to

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<v Speaker 2>arrest me. My name is Kim Hoover. I was in

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<v Speaker 2>prison for nineteen years for wrongful conviction of telling a

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<v Speaker 2>baby that was in my daycare.

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<v Speaker 1>From love over good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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<v Speaker 1>Freeling today Kim Hoover. Kim Hoover was born in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty three to a big, loving family. She grew up

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<v Speaker 1>in Columbus, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother was Elizabeth Hoover. She went by Betty. My

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<v Speaker 2>dad was Alfred Hoover, he went by Buck. I have

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<v Speaker 2>two siblings, an older sister, Keina, and a younger brother, Todd.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a great childhood. I remember every winter we

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<v Speaker 2>would get our ice skate and Dad would take us

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<v Speaker 2>around after it had rained and froze. The ground head

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<v Speaker 2>froze or a pond head froze, and then we would

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<v Speaker 2>go ice skating and we all looked forward to that.

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<v Speaker 2>That was something that was fun.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Keina. I'm Kim Hoover's older sister.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about growing up with Kim. Do you have

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<v Speaker 1>any favorite memories of her?

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<v Speaker 4>Typical sister stuff you know, we were twenty three months apart,

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<v Speaker 4>so we were just a typical leave me alone teenager

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<v Speaker 4>kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 5>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Mom was to stay at home mom. She took care

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<v Speaker 2>of all of us. Dad worked for United Parcel Service

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<v Speaker 2>for years.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when Kim was around twelve or thirteen, her

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<v Speaker 1>father had an accident at work. His backbone was crushed

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<v Speaker 1>and he spent a year in traction at the hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>His recuperation took several years more.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't have any income coming in, so Mom took

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<v Speaker 2>in kids through a daycare that she had started at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, and she ended up having for more than

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five years. She never advertised. It was always word

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<v Speaker 2>of mouth and family and friends. If it hadn't been

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<v Speaker 2>for family and friends and then Mom getting her job

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<v Speaker 2>with her daycare, that we probably would have lost our house.

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<v Speaker 1>Kim and her siblings grew up in the daycare, and

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<v Speaker 1>as she got into her teens, Kim enjoyed helping her

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<v Speaker 1>mother out.

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<v Speaker 2>When she wasn't able to she had a doctor's appointment

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<v Speaker 2>or something like that. I took over watching her daycare kids.

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<v Speaker 1>In her early twenties, Kim was working at Lenscrafter's as

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<v Speaker 1>an apprentice optician, and one day her cousin invited her

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<v Speaker 1>to come up north to Delaware, Ohio for a visit.

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<v Speaker 1>There was someone she wanted Kim to meet.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I went up there, I didn't actually meet

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<v Speaker 2>the person she wanted me to meet. I met somebody else.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we started dating, and about two years later

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<v Speaker 2>we were married.

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<v Speaker 1>Their son Bo was born in nineteen eighty eight, but

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<v Speaker 1>by then, Kim says, the marriage had run its course.

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<v Speaker 2>We were different people and had we dated longer, we

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<v Speaker 2>would have realized that and not got married. But about

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<v Speaker 2>two and a half years after we were married in

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<v Speaker 2>eighty eight, we got a divorce and I raised my

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<v Speaker 2>son all by myself. I had so custody.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that like, being a single mother with a newborn.

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<v Speaker 3>It was I had my mom.

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<v Speaker 2>She was his daycare provider while I worked and then

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<v Speaker 2>eventually went to school, and so kind of like the

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<v Speaker 2>theme of our life is that family is always there

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<v Speaker 2>for you no matter what.

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<v Speaker 1>Well raising her son, Bow, Kim was also working and

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<v Speaker 1>going to school.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was accumulating debt and I wasn't really making

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<v Speaker 2>a whole lot back then. So I went back to

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<v Speaker 2>work and I had a series of different jobs, but

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to pay off my student loans, and then

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<v Speaker 2>life got in the way and I never did go back.

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<v Speaker 1>So when did you start doing the or open your

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<v Speaker 1>own daycare center.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not exactly sure, because I just started watching kids on.

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<v Speaker 2>Kids were always at my house, you know, There's just

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<v Speaker 2>a thing where they would always be there. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a little boy who lived near us, and he would

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<v Speaker 2>always come over to my house and say he's locked

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<v Speaker 2>out or he forgot his key or something to that effect.

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<v Speaker 2>And then later on his mother had told me, she said,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a key right outside. He wasn't locked out or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>He just he didn't want to be alone, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>And so I was more than happy to take him

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<v Speaker 2>in and give him a snack.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, like her mother, Kim loved kids and

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<v Speaker 1>was a natural caregiver.

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<v Speaker 2>The kids thought of my house as a safe place

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<v Speaker 2>to be, and I like that. I like knowing that

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<v Speaker 2>they were safe. I liked knowing that they could trust me,

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<v Speaker 2>and the families could trust me, And so it was

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<v Speaker 2>somewhat of a natural progression when I started my own Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to college for and I went to Columbus

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<v Speaker 2>State and took classes in early childhood development. So this

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<v Speaker 2>was something that I planned on doing until I retired.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I love kids. I should probably have managed

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<v Speaker 2>my business more as a business, but once they come

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<v Speaker 2>into my house, they become part of my family.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the years, Kim took care of around twenty children altogether.

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<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and two, she had around half a

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<v Speaker 1>dozen regular kids.

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<v Speaker 2>I had two eight week old twin daughters, and I

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<v Speaker 2>had their brother who was autistic. I had Samasha, her

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<v Speaker 2>older sister, Dureka, and I had a seven year old

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<v Speaker 2>boy named Euro. I had the twins in the morning

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<v Speaker 2>through the afternoon, and then I would have Daureka and

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<v Speaker 2>Samasha in the afternoon into the evening hours.

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<v Speaker 1>Dareka was two years old and Samisia was seven months.

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<v Speaker 1>Kim remembers that their mother, twenty two year old Akila Benson,

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<v Speaker 1>first reached out to her in September of two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and two.

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<v Speaker 2>She came to my home and we interviewed, We talked,

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<v Speaker 2>and everything was fine, and she said right then and

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<v Speaker 2>there that she wanted me to be her daycare provider.

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<v Speaker 2>So a few days later she's supposed to be at

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<v Speaker 2>my house. I think around nine but she showed up

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<v Speaker 2>around like eight. I was still in the shower, so

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<v Speaker 2>I came running downstairs and she had pushed a double

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<v Speaker 2>baby stroller a good two three miles in major traffic

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<v Speaker 2>to my house. She had assumed that her husband was

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<v Speaker 2>going to give her the only working car that they had,

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<v Speaker 2>beings that she had to travel so far to come

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<v Speaker 2>to my house, but he didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>So Kim bundled the young mother and her kids into

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<v Speaker 1>her own car and drove Akila to work that morning.

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<v Speaker 2>I told her then, I said, for about the next

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<v Speaker 2>two weeks, you know, so you can get your car

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<v Speaker 2>pick you get your first paycheck, and get your car PIX.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go ahead and give you rides.

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<v Speaker 1>After she dropped Aquila off at work, Kim drove the

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<v Speaker 1>girls back to her house.

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<v Speaker 2>That's when I took off samacious coat, and that's when

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<v Speaker 2>I realized that she had a green, runny nose, and

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<v Speaker 2>I assumed it was an infection. So when I went

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<v Speaker 2>to pick up the mother from work that day and

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<v Speaker 2>take them all home, I asked her about that, and

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<v Speaker 2>she said she was giving her medication for it. But

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<v Speaker 2>she kind of went into this long spiel about she's

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<v Speaker 2>looking for a new doctor and all of that. So

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<v Speaker 2>I left it at that.

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<v Speaker 1>But as the weeks went by, Samisha's running nose didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get any better.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, it kept getting worse. And in the about

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<v Speaker 2>two and a half months that I took care of them,

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<v Speaker 2>I asked her on numerous occasions, and each time it

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<v Speaker 2>was a different excuse. She switched doctors, and then it

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<v Speaker 2>came down to that she's giving Samesha her medication before

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<v Speaker 2>she brings her. She doesn't understand why she's not getting

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<v Speaker 2>any better.

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<v Speaker 1>Years later, Kim learned through hospital paperwork that Akila had

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<v Speaker 1>never actually taken Semisha to the doctor.

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<v Speaker 2>She had lied to me about that, which to this day,

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<v Speaker 2>I still don't understand because I'm someone that's trying to

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<v Speaker 2>help her take care of her daughter, and why would

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<v Speaker 2>you lie to me? I don't understand that part even

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<v Speaker 2>today as a mother, as a parent, I don't get that.

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you let your child suffer? That's something that

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<v Speaker 2>I still think about quite often, and how I could

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<v Speaker 2>have I've realized she wasn't getting any better. Had the

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<v Speaker 2>mother said I haven't taken her, I would have driven

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<v Speaker 2>her over to my son's pediatrician. And now there was

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<v Speaker 2>no reason for that to go untreated, and there.

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<v Speaker 1>Were other unusual physical issues that Kim had observed in Sumasha.

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<v Speaker 2>She was twenty pounds at nine months. She was very

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<v Speaker 2>top heavy, her body was not normal, her head was massive,

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<v Speaker 2>her chest was massive, but her legs were still very

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<v Speaker 2>much premature, which she was a premature baby. Her belly

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<v Speaker 2>was so big that she could never get her legs

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<v Speaker 2>up under her to crawl to lose some of that weight.

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<v Speaker 1>Kim also sensed that Akila was having problems with her

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<v Speaker 1>husband window It started that first day when Kim was

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<v Speaker 1>giving her a ride to work.

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<v Speaker 2>She started opening up then about things that were going on.

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<v Speaker 2>I said to her, how long is it going to

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<v Speaker 2>take for you to get your car fixed? And she said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. He doesn't really want me to get

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<v Speaker 2>it fixed, and I said, well why not, and then

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<v Speaker 2>she said, well, he doesn't want me working. So I

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<v Speaker 2>started attributing a lot of problems to that. But then

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<v Speaker 2>as time went on, she started telling me about the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that when they were in New York, he had

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<v Speaker 2>gone to jail for supposedly hurting Dureka. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>started seeing being a pattern emerging of domestic violence.

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<v Speaker 1>Over time, Kim began to notice signs that Akila might

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<v Speaker 1>be planning to leave Window. One day, Akila told her

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<v Speaker 1>she'd found a new apartment and asked Kim to drive

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<v Speaker 1>her there to sign the lease.

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<v Speaker 2>When I took her to sign the lease on the apartment,

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<v Speaker 2>she kept asking me, please don't tell him, Please don't

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<v Speaker 2>tell him where it is. And even at the hospital,

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<v Speaker 2>if you go back and look at the hospital paperwork,

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<v Speaker 2>it says do not give out new address to father.

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<v Speaker 1>Kim kept her word. She didn't tell Window about the apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>Within that last month, he was always asking about Akila's plans,

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<v Speaker 2>what is she planning on doing, Where's she going? And

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<v Speaker 2>I think he caught win that she was working to

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<v Speaker 2>get away from him.

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<v Speaker 1>One week in November, Akila didn't bring the girls to Kim's.

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<v Speaker 1>Kim didn't see them until the day after Thanksgiving. That afternoon,

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<v Speaker 1>she was taking care of the eight week old twin

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<v Speaker 1>girls and their brother, along with her son Bo, who

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<v Speaker 1>was thirteen. Around three o'clock, Window brought Dorika and Semisha over.

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<v Speaker 2>I went over and picked up Semisha, took her out

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<v Speaker 2>of that chair. I left her coat on her because

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<v Speaker 2>I had the front door open, but I put her

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<v Speaker 2>in a baby bed beside me on the couch, and

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<v Speaker 2>everything seemed normal at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>A couple hours later, after the other children were picked

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<v Speaker 1>up by their mother, Kim turned her attention to feeding Semasha.

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<v Speaker 2>I took her snowsuit off, I went to try to

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<v Speaker 2>give her a bottle, and that's when I realized that

0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>she looked lethargic and that she really couldn't hold her

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 2>head up. So at that point in time, I'm thinking

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 2>that the green running nose and her not really wanting

0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 2>to eat had turned into something worse like pneumonia. And

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 2>at that point in time, I wasn't calling the parents.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Called nine to one on.

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 1>The operator told Kim to try doing CPR and Samsha,

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 1>but she didn't revive. When the paramedics arrived, they took

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>the baby straight to Columbus Children's Hospital. Meanwhile, police were

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 1>questioning Kim about Semisha's parents.

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 2>They kept asking about Window. They kept asking had I

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 2>met him, and I said, yeah, you know, I wasn't

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>really thrilled with him and I didn't want to deal

0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 2>with him.

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>The police told her to call the baby's mother to

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 1>meet them there.

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was her ride, So I said, I have

0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 2>to go get her. She doesn't have a way, and

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 2>so I went to pick her up, and her and

0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 2>my son and Dareka all drove in the car to

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 2>the hospital.

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Kim and the hospital social worker tried to get Aquila

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 1>to talk to the detectives about what had been going

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 1>on with Window.

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 2>And she wouldn't do it. She laid on the couch

0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.200
<v Speaker 2>with her coat over her head and kept saying she

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go home. She hadn't been in her daughter's room,

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 2>she hadn't seen her daughter. I ended up calling Aquila's mother.

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 2>We ended up taking Aquila home. For whatever reason, she

0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't stay at the hospital.

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Kim told the detectives what she'd observed about Samisha's health

0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 1>over the past two months, but they wanted to know more.

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:27.840
<v Speaker 2>They asked me more about Akila and windows relationship, and

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 2>I told him what I knew at the time. You

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 2>know that she was trying to get away from him

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and all of that, And at that point in time,

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 2>he said, well, we've already got your statements. We need

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:44.560
<v Speaker 2>to deal with the parents, So you guys you're free

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 2>to go. You know, thank you for bringing her. We

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>never did find out that night what happened to Samasha's

0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 2>I just kept watching the news like everybody else to

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 2>see what was going on. And then December twentieth, I

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>woke up, took my son to school, took it to

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 2>his bus stop, and then came home and then there

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 2>was a knock on the door and Schwat was there

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:14.199
<v Speaker 2>to arrest me.

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. You can

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 1>listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 1>one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:53.080
<v Speaker 1>for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 5>From minute one, Kim has said she did not commit

0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 5>this crime.

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 1>This is Joanna Sanchez, director of the Wrongful Conviction Project

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 1>at the Ohio Public Defender's Office.

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.760
<v Speaker 5>Kim has always said this child collapsed in my care

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.879
<v Speaker 5>and unfortunately we weren't able to save her, but that

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 5>she did not harm this child.

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 1>At the hospital, Semisha had been treated by doctor Ellen McManus.

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 1>A CT scan showed that the baby had a skull

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.680
<v Speaker 1>fracture and blood across the brain. Ultimately, doctor McManus diagnosed

0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Semasha with SBS shaken Baby syndrome.

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 5>Twenty years ago, the understanding of shaken baby syndrome and

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.360
<v Speaker 5>abusive head trauma was very different than what it is today. Particularly,

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.680
<v Speaker 5>the doctors would look for three things which were retinal hemorrhaging,

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 5>hemorrhage on the brain, and brain swelling. And so when

0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.840
<v Speaker 5>they saw those three things, the presumption was a child

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 5>was a victim of shaken baby syndrome. As soon as

0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 5>the child would shake in within about fifteen minutes, the

0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 5>belief was that they would go into distress. And what

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.280
<v Speaker 5>that meant and the criminal context is really the last

0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 5>adult with the child was always the suspect and always

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.919
<v Speaker 5>the person who was blamed for what happened to the child.

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.720
<v Speaker 5>And that's exactly what happened in Kim's case.

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.880
<v Speaker 1>When the officers arrived at Kim's house to arrest her,

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:17.959
<v Speaker 1>she was in complete shock.

0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't even talk, and then they handcuffed me in

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 2>the back and they drove me to the I guess

0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 2>downtown to the Sheriff's office or somewhere. I was trying

0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 2>to wrap my brain around being arrested.

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.439
<v Speaker 4>I mean the phone call, you know, we got the

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.960
<v Speaker 4>phone call and then everything just like went off the rails.

0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Here's Kim's sister, Keina again.

0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 4>I don't even know how to explain it. I mean,

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.359
<v Speaker 4>we just didn't believe it. There's just no way that

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.680
<v Speaker 4>it was true. There's no possible way that it happened.

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 4>And heard her daycare.

0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.119
<v Speaker 3>Like she didn't do it. Yeah, they got their facts wrong.

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.000
<v Speaker 2>There were all kinds of news photographers and all that.

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.680
<v Speaker 2>They're taking pictures and yelling things, you know, trying to

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.800
<v Speaker 2>get me to talk to them. And then they ushered

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 2>me into the jail and your strip searched your pictures,

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.280
<v Speaker 2>taken your fingerprints, all of that stuff. And then you're

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.639
<v Speaker 2>stuck in a room with other people that have been arrested,

0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and time just gets away from you then because there

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.560
<v Speaker 2>isn't a clock that you can look at. I don't

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.439
<v Speaker 2>remember if it was daytime or nighttime or whatever, but

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I spent a lot of time there.

0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.639
<v Speaker 1>On December thirtieth, two thousand and two, Kim was indicted

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:51.919
<v Speaker 1>for Samasha's murder. Kim went to trial in Franklin County

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Court in November of two thousand and three, and as always,

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.159
<v Speaker 1>her family was there to support her.

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 4>I remember seeing her being brought out in handcuffs, and

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:03.880
<v Speaker 4>that was that was the hardest thing.

0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.879
<v Speaker 3>Anybody could see. You know, your sister would be like that.

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 3>You know she I could tell she was upset. I

0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 3>could tell she she was angry.

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 4>The whole trial was it was like a blur now

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.040
<v Speaker 4>that you look back on it, because you know, I don't.

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.160
<v Speaker 3>Want to remember the bad stuff.

0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to remember any of the bad stuff,

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.479
<v Speaker 4>but you know, you got to, you gotta think about

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 4>the past.

0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 5>Kim's trial was very heavily medical based, so it was

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 5>really medical testimony on both sides.

0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution's primary witnesses were doctor McManus, the doctor who

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 1>had treated Samasha, and doctor Charles Johnson, head of the

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.800
<v Speaker 1>child abuse team at Children's Hospital.

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:51.120
<v Speaker 5>They both testified that the child had these three symptoms

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.360
<v Speaker 5>and that that meant it had to be shaken baby syndrome.

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.439
<v Speaker 5>They also called a deputy coroner, doctor Patrick Fardell, to

0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.480
<v Speaker 5>testify at trial, and he provided similar test so he

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 5>said he performed the autopsy at that time. He said

0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 5>he hadn't noticed that the child had any pre existing

0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.560
<v Speaker 5>injuries and that he believed that this was shaking baby syndrome.

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 2>It was very hard to listen to At times. I

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 2>felt like I had to zone out because It was

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.920
<v Speaker 2>too much for me for anyone to think that I

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.679
<v Speaker 2>could hurt anyone. I've never heard anyone in my life,

0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 2>and for someone to make the accusation that I could

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 2>hurt a child, it takes away from who you are.

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.919
<v Speaker 3>I can't even imagine what she's going through. You know,

0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 3>you're trying to think, how is she going through this,

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:40.840
<v Speaker 3>What's what's in her mind?

0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 4>She would look over at us and we would smile

0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 4>and you know, let her know.

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.320
<v Speaker 3>I guess just letting her know that we were there

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 3>helped her out a lot, you know, But there wasn't

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:55.000
<v Speaker 3>nothing you could do. I mean, it was weird. Like

0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 3>I said, I've never really something you see on TV,

0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:57.879
<v Speaker 3>but worse, you know.

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:03.760
<v Speaker 2>I assumed that my attorney would be there to make

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.600
<v Speaker 2>sure that things were put right, that the evidence would

0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>come out, but that really didn't happen. None of their

0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>hospital paperwork, their reports, their findings, anything were ever brought up.

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Nobody could understand that we had expected that to be

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.800
<v Speaker 2>put into trial and it wasn't, and why it wasn't

0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:38.600
<v Speaker 2>refuted by my own attorney. And that's one thing that

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.639
<v Speaker 2>I think needs to truly be looked at, not just

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:46.160
<v Speaker 2>in my case. But when we're talking about how people

0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>get wrongfully convicted, if you don't have the true evidence

0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 2>in front of you, how do you know what is

0:23:53.560 --> 0:24:02.879
<v Speaker 2>being said by people on the stand is actually true.

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:10.520
<v Speaker 5>Kim's defense was that she hadn't harmed this child, that

0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.600
<v Speaker 5>this child potentially had been harmed, but it did not

0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:17.160
<v Speaker 5>happen in Kim's care, And so she had her own

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 5>expert who testified by deposition, and what he said was

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:22.919
<v Speaker 5>that he did believe it was shaken baby syndrome, but

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:27.280
<v Speaker 5>that the injuries may have occurred hours earlier. A critical

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 5>component of that defense was that the child's parents had

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.920
<v Speaker 5>a history of domestic violence, and so there was evidence

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 5>put forth about that history at Kim's trial. So there

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 5>was police reports documenting a number of calls out to

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:45.639
<v Speaker 5>the family's house, including incidents where each parent had harmed

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 5>the other, but also an incident or two where the

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 5>children had been harmed. So, for example, one was a

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:55.119
<v Speaker 5>police report that Samasha's older sister had been shaken, and

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:59.120
<v Speaker 5>so we knew that there was this history of police

0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.479
<v Speaker 5>activity at the home. But in between the family, you know,

0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.199
<v Speaker 5>I think as far as the defense, the father was

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.040
<v Speaker 5>the alternate suspect as far as the prosecution, though, they

0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.639
<v Speaker 5>had this medical evidence that they believed said that the

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 5>child would have gone into distress, you know, fifteen twenty

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:17.600
<v Speaker 5>minutes after she was injured, and so as far as

0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 5>they were concerned, he was completely eliminated as a suspect

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.959
<v Speaker 5>at that point because of that sort of narrow understanding

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.439
<v Speaker 5>of the timing of these injuries, which now we know

0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:27.520
<v Speaker 5>is inaccurate.

0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Kim made the decision to testify on her own behalf.

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 1>She says she had nothing to hide.

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I thought when I testified that I would be able

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:40.480
<v Speaker 2>to bring out the truth. I thought that I would

0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:44.479
<v Speaker 2>be able to explain some things that didn't make sense

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:49.520
<v Speaker 2>or that were wrong. Trying to explain that I didn't

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 2>hurt a child in front of people that don't know

0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:59.400
<v Speaker 2>you. You have to, really, they're holding your fate in your hands.

0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:02.919
<v Speaker 5>I think, you know, it's hard to look back and

0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:05.719
<v Speaker 5>see what was a jury thinking when they reached a verdict.

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:07.879
<v Speaker 5>But I think, you know, what was so critical in

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.360
<v Speaker 5>this case was that they were hearing from doctors who

0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:14.160
<v Speaker 5>essentially told them this couldn't be any other way.

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't really fault the jury because the jury did

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:28.399
<v Speaker 2>not hear the full truth of the matter. They only

0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:32.240
<v Speaker 2>heard basically one side, since my attorney really did not

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 2>or was not prepared or did not understand the medical

0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 2>issues enough to refute them.

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:48.400
<v Speaker 1>On November seventh, two thousand and three, Kim was convicted

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:54.320
<v Speaker 1>of child endangerment, felonious assault, involuntary manslaughter, and murder. She

0:26:54.440 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 1>was sentenced to fifteen years to life.

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 2>My whole entire family looked after me, took care of me,

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.760
<v Speaker 2>and after I was arrested, they were the ones that

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:23.560
<v Speaker 2>keep up the fight for me because once I was

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:28.640
<v Speaker 2>in prison, I didn't have the resources to take on

0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 2>my case as much as I wanted to, so they

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>did a lot of the difficult legwork of looking up

0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:41.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff for me and helping gather information that I didn't

0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 2>have at that time.

0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.119
<v Speaker 3>We were always going up there to see her. We

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 3>had to find a way to do it.

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:53.120
<v Speaker 4>It's forty five minutes away from here, at least with

0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 4>no traffic, so we would try to make it one

0:27:56.080 --> 0:27:58.240
<v Speaker 4>I think there was a limit to once a month

0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:01.639
<v Speaker 4>or twice a month, but we would get up there

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 4>as much as we could. The whole place just made

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:13.400
<v Speaker 4>you feel at uneasy, like I don't know hard leaving

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 4>her there too. I think the hardest part when you

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.639
<v Speaker 4>see her is walking out of it. You walk in,

0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 4>you know, you're grateful to see her, You're grateful to

0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:23.800
<v Speaker 4>have the time, You're grateful to spend the moments with her.

0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.199
<v Speaker 4>Of but it's I think the hardest part is where you

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 4>every single time walking out of there and saying goodbye,

0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:30.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, leaving her behind and not wanting to take

0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:31.159
<v Speaker 4>her with you.

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>And what made it worse for Kim was that their

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 1>mother was in very poor health.

0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 2>She had severe heart problems and she had a heart

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 2>attack when the verdict came down in the courtroom, so

0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 2>they had to take her from the courthouse to the hospital.

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Sadly, Kim's mother died while she was in prison.

0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 2>My father died in two thousand and my mother passed

0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:01.680
<v Speaker 2>away about seven years ago. She held on as long

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 2>as she could, but she didn't see me get out

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:04.479
<v Speaker 2>of prison.

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:08.040
<v Speaker 1>What was that like to have your mom die before

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:09.440
<v Speaker 1>you were fully exonerated.

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.720
<v Speaker 2>It was hard, It was really really hard. But in

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>the phone calls home, I could tell in her voice

0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:24.280
<v Speaker 2>that she was fading, And like I said, she hung

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>on for years because she knew I was innocent. She knew.

0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>She actually kept telling me that I'll see you again

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:36.160
<v Speaker 2>outside of prison. I will, but she just could not

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.560
<v Speaker 2>hold on long enough to see me get out of prison.

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:43.040
<v Speaker 2>And I wasn't allowed to go to her funeral because

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I was a lifer and the crime that I had,

0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 2>the prison would not take me to her funeral.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Kim's first appeal in two thousand and four was denied,

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>but with her family support, she continued to fight for

0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:11.360
<v Speaker 1>her innocence, and then in twenty ten, Kim wrote to

0:30:11.400 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 1>the newly formed Wrongful Conviction Project at the Ohio Public

0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Defender's Office.

0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:21.560
<v Speaker 5>I think it was twenty page letter laying out everything

0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:25.440
<v Speaker 5>that happened, and we were immediately interested in her case

0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 5>because it was really this critical time where we were

0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 5>seeing shaken baby syndrome exonerations across the country. The literature

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:35.880
<v Speaker 5>was increasing, and we really knew that there were some

0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:38.840
<v Speaker 5>problems with the way this was diagnosed back in two

0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 5>thousand and three and before. What we know now and

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 5>what was sort of starting to be discovered at that time,

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:47.600
<v Speaker 5>is that these symptoms that doctors used to identify shake

0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:49.640
<v Speaker 5>and baby syndrome or abusive head trauma could really be

0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:54.760
<v Speaker 5>caused by a number of things including birth trauma, infection, diseases, shortfalls,

0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:58.040
<v Speaker 5>and so we immediately started looking at Kim's case from

0:30:58.040 --> 0:31:03.720
<v Speaker 5>that medical standpoint and our investigation. The really tricky thing

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.320
<v Speaker 5>in Kim's case is that for years and years we

0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.080
<v Speaker 5>did not have access to the medical records in this case.

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.960
<v Speaker 5>So it's kind of strange. It is a medical case,

0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:15.480
<v Speaker 5>but not a single medical record was admitted as an

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:18.680
<v Speaker 5>exhibit at Kim's trial. We tried to get her medical

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:21.960
<v Speaker 5>records from her trial attorney, but he misplaced his file.

0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 5>We tried to get him from the child's mother, from

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 5>the prosecutors. We filed emotion to get the records and

0:31:29.000 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 5>we were unable to get them.

0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Fortunately, Joanna was able to get the tissue slides from

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Samisha's autopsy.

0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:40.920
<v Speaker 5>Doctor Janisophovin, who is a forensic pediatric pathologist. She was

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:43.960
<v Speaker 5>able to look at those slides and say, this child

0:31:44.040 --> 0:31:49.400
<v Speaker 5>had an old brain injury, which was huge in this case. Wow,

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 5>that was something that wasn't ever presented at trial. It

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:55.040
<v Speaker 5>wasn't known that this child had actually suffered a brain

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 5>injury weeks or months prior, and that that's ultimately what

0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 5>progressed to cause her to go into distress and to

0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 5>cause her death, that it was nothing that happened in

0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:05.520
<v Speaker 5>Kim's care.

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Armed with that information, the team went back to doctor Fardel,

0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the coroner who had performed Samisha's autopsy, and asked him

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:15.680
<v Speaker 1>to review his diagnosis.

0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 5>He was retired at the time, and you know, it

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 5>took a while for him to get access to a

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.880
<v Speaker 5>microscope to be able to do that. But ultimately he

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 5>also looked at the slides and he applied these special

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:29.320
<v Speaker 5>iron stains which he had not applied at the time

0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:32.280
<v Speaker 5>of the autopsy, and he reached the same conclusion that

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 5>there was an old head injury that rebled and that

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 5>he had missed before. We also got a radiologist to

0:32:39.080 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 5>look at the records, you know, from that standpoint, same conclusion.

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:46.760
<v Speaker 5>So in June twenty twenty one, we filed emotion asking

0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 5>for a new trial for Kim, and ultimately, after looking

0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 5>at it and looking at all the medical evidence and

0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:54.880
<v Speaker 5>the expert opinions, and I believe consulting with their own expert,

0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:58.600
<v Speaker 5>the prosecutor's office agreed with us, and so in October

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty one, they called us up and they said,

0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 5>we're ready to dismiss all the charges. The judge agreed,

0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:05.200
<v Speaker 5>and Kim was released.

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I kind of knew that things were happening, that the

0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>prosecutor's office wasn't going to fight it, but I felt

0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 2>that the judge would say, give me weeks months, you know,

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to look this over. I did not realize that I

0:33:23.080 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 2>was actually he was actually going to sign paperwork that

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 2>day to release me.

0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:33.400
<v Speaker 3>I got the phone call at work. I had to

0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:36.800
<v Speaker 3>go into a room, close the door, and I just

0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 3>cried like I was. It was one of those joy moments,

0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:42.959
<v Speaker 3>but your sad moments. I mean, you're crying, you're happy.

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Then you want to know when, why?

0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 2>How?

0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Where? When can I get? Can I leave right now

0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:49.080
<v Speaker 3>to go get her?

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I was going about my day to day life in prison,

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.880
<v Speaker 2>and the warden's assistant came to me and said, did

0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 2>you know you're leaving prison now? And I'm like no,

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't packed, I wasn't ready. It was later on

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.200
<v Speaker 2>that afternoon that I walked out of person. They were

0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:10.000
<v Speaker 2>all out in the parking lot waiting on me.

0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 3>It was a joyous, joyous time. Joanna pulled up.

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 4>Later, my husband pulled up later, and then all the

0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:19.400
<v Speaker 4>cousins came in, and it was like a hurry up

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:20.400
<v Speaker 4>and wait, another hurry.

0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:22.040
<v Speaker 3>Up and wait situation. We gotta get there, we gotta

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:22.839
<v Speaker 3>get there, and then we got.

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 4>To wait, wait, wait, wait, and then we saw her

0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:33.760
<v Speaker 4>come out, finally, carrying her whole life in a plastic bag.

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 4>Twenty years of her whole life like in one plastic bag.

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 4>It was heart wrenching, heart wrenching.

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.960
<v Speaker 2>It was overwhelming, it really was. My legs kind of

0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 2>gave out on me. I couldn't really walk. They ran

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 2>up to me. I had just kind of like stood there,

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.759
<v Speaker 2>and I kept thinking that I was going to be

0:34:53.960 --> 0:34:57.600
<v Speaker 2>pulled back in, you know, pulled right back into the prison.

0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Keina and her husband a room waiting for Kim at

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:04.680
<v Speaker 1>home in Westerville, and she moved right in and started

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:07.880
<v Speaker 1>to rebuild her life. While in prison, Kim had earned

0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.480
<v Speaker 1>a liberal arts degree and she was working on a

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:12.320
<v Speaker 1>business degree when she was released.

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:15.920
<v Speaker 2>I do want to go back and finish my degree,

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:20.200
<v Speaker 2>whether I continue in that vein or not, it would

0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:22.640
<v Speaker 2>be helpful no matter what type of job that you do,

0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>to have a business background.

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Right now, Kim is taking things slowly as she readjusts

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:32.600
<v Speaker 1>to life outside. She says she sometimes can't believe she

0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 1>was actually incarcerated for all that time.

0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I did not realize until weeks later when I started

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:47.520
<v Speaker 2>trying to remember my life in prison. I couldn't remember

0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:50.719
<v Speaker 2>my life in prison. It's like the further I got

0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:53.840
<v Speaker 2>away from prison, all of my memories were being pulled

0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:58.000
<v Speaker 2>and left in prison because I had to start this

0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:05.080
<v Speaker 2>new life here. I went back to prison a couple

0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:07.280
<v Speaker 2>of weeks ago. I went back to see a friend

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:10.480
<v Speaker 2>that's there, and it took me a while to get

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.719
<v Speaker 2>out of the car, and then I walked through that

0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:17.239
<v Speaker 2>very same gravel parking lot that I walked out of

0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:20.359
<v Speaker 2>the prison. I was walking back into the prison, and

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:26.759
<v Speaker 2>it just seems like it's a different life. It's like

0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:29.799
<v Speaker 2>like I maybe saw it in a movie. You know,

0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't my life. But then there are other times

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:34.759
<v Speaker 2>like yeah, I remember, I remember going through that door.

0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:36.800
<v Speaker 2>I remember what's on the other side of that door.

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 1>And then she says, it all comes flooding back.

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.439
<v Speaker 2>I'll be out walking my sister's dogs, or i will

0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:53.000
<v Speaker 2>be somewhere and then I'll realize it's four fifteen and

0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I might have a panic attack because I'm not on

0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 2>my bed at four o'clock for four o'clock count in prison.

0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:05.920
<v Speaker 2>You know those memories. It's like I'm back in prison,

0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:10.879
<v Speaker 2>and that happens quite a bit. I don't know how

0:37:10.920 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to explain that. It's something that if you have to

0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:18.160
<v Speaker 2>live it to understand it, and it's not something that

0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 2>I tell a lot of people. I just I have

0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to realize that I'm here.

0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:25.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm not there.

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm here now.

0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

0:37:55.120 --> 0:37:57.839
<v Speaker 1>links in the episode description to see how you can help.

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to thank our executive producer Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler,

0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:05.160
<v Speaker 1>and Kevin Wortis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea,

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:10.840
<v Speaker 1>producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Beal, and researcher Shelby Sorels.

0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Mixing and sound design are by Jackie Pauley, with additional

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:18.360
<v Speaker 1>production by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:22.480
<v Speaker 1>this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms

0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:29.279
<v Speaker 1>at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can

0:38:29.320 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 1>also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful

0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for

0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Good podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one