WEBVTT - Graymail - E6 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:07.520 Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio previously on 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:13.560 Murder in Miami. So you offered Lamar a million dollars 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:16.680 to land at his island and to bring the coke 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:18.160 back to the United States. 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:18.960 Right. 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.280 One of the most significant things in this whole case 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:29.240 was Lamar Chaster's appearance before a Royal Commission of Inquiry 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:30.360 in the Bahamas. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.559 So at the time that the inquiry was happening in 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.720 the Bahamas, were you even aware that it was going on? 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.159 Well, it was shortly after this that the mysterious Morgan 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.720 Cherry mentioned that I got a call from Bob who 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.040 said that Lamar wanted to hire me as a consultant. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.240 There was going to be a pre trial hearing in Atlanta. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.960 You didn't worry that you were getting into something that 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.600 you might not escape from. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.560 I just sort of walked right into it. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.080 Here's Chester talking to CB about Phil Stamford. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:14.800 I am an eye, I mean, I am not by 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:29.679 any mean any and me and Agne all. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.959 Right, So it's the fall of nineteen eighty four, and 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:31.360 basically you agree to go to Georgia to help Lamar Chester, 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.960 who you fully believe is a drug smuggler and who 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.840 fully believes that you were in the CIA create a 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:43.679 gray male defense pretty much. Yeah, and your girlfriend Mickey's 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:44.479 okay with all. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:48.240 That, not exactly. Remember Bob and I were at the 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.400 Mutiny to meet Lamoiar, drinking pretty much all afternoon before 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.600 finally got to see him, and when we're finished, were 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.000 both drunkard than Skunk's. Drove back to the apartment I 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.720 got out. It was getting dark by then, so I 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.640 guess I figured time to take a nap. Is So 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.800 I dozed off, and when I wake up, for some reason, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.000 I decide I need to call this girl I met 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.359 in Washington, d C. When I was up there, and 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.720 it's dark in the apartment and I'm still so out 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.320 of it. I don't hear Mickey open the door, and 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.799 she's probably standing there for several minutes before I hang up, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.799 and there she is. By the time the call was over. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:32.000 I guess that was it. 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:32.480 For Mickey and me. 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.600 Phil, I'm sorry, that's kind of awkward. 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.320 And the funny thing is the girl in DC didn't 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.600 even remember my name when I called her. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.600 I'm Lauren brad Pacheco and this is murder in Miami. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.440 So I moved out of the Amsterdam Palace and ended 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.799 up renting a room from Jack McClintock, a writer friend 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.080 who actually did the piece you referred to earlier about 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.000 the Cardozo. He and his girlfriend had a place in 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:16.639 south of Miami. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.440 So when Bob called about the pre trial hearings, you 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.760 were basically available for a consulting gig. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.640 Whatever that might be. Yeah, Bob said, I was supposed 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.600 to look for inconsistencies in the daily transcript, and I'd 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.840 be paid a couple hundred dollars a day plus travel, 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.360 So it didn't sound like such a bad idea. Bob said, 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.320 I could stay at Lamar's place in Cleveland while I 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.920 was up there, and he was going to get the 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:43.920 tickets and we'd fly on. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.600 I mean, not to sound like a broken record, but 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.520 you seriously didn't have any hesitation about getting messed up 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:52.920 with a federal investigation. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.080 You've got to realize I still didn't quite believe that 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.080 what was going on was even real. But if Lamar 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.040 thought I was with the CIA, and I told him 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.880 the God's honest truth that I wasn't, who was I 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.760 to turn down the money? Mostly though, I was just 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.640 going whichever way the wind was blowing. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.560 Well, you know, at this point you had to have 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.040 put some thought into why he would have thought that 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.800 you were actually a CIA operative. I mean, those guys 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.240 weren't exactly naive or stupid. 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.760 Well, it has taken me years to get my head 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.360 around that one. But here's what I think they were thinking. Now, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.040 here's this guy down here from Washington, DC. He's written 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.440 for the New York Times on national security matters, for 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.560 Christ's sakes, and everyone knows the agency uses journalists as 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.479 cover all the time. He's even worked for congressman on 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:45.159 the House Armed Services Committee and for a think tank 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.200 in DC. It would be easy enough for them to 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.560 have looked it up. So here's what they're thinking. Here's 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.159 this guy. He's not down here writing, he's not asking questions, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.680 and he's obviously not interested in the money. No one's 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.400 that dumb, so he must be with the c I A. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.919 Well, you know there's another possible reason too. Here's the 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.800 recording of the taped phone call between Chester and C. B. 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:12.440 Hackworth. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:24.080 I have a guy I'm made together our agreement Watt 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:36.120 would I am not, by any meaning comment that he's 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:42.279 not currently and to one of the guys that worshiped 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.000 with his own attorney of. 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.200 The combers on the guy, Russell Burt. 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.240 I don't know who this guy is, Russell Burns or 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.159 Russell Brooke. I never met him. There was a Russell 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.280 Brooke who was in the indictment, so he would have 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.320 testified in the Lone Star grand jury or have been 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.760 a subject of the Lone Star brand jury. But whatever 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.680 it was, I have no idea how he could have 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.160 come to that conclusion. Probably just the same as Lamar 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.560 and Bob. No one can be that dumb, so he 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.880 must be with the CIA for background. 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.520 Operation Lone Star was a sprawling federal investigation of money laundering, 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.599 but it began in nineteen eighty one as a probe 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.760 of oil price manipulation in Houston. One of the principal 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.240 targets of the initial probe, Miami tax lawyer Lance Eisenberg, 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.960 also happened to represent Lamar Chester, which is how the 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:48.200 former Miami based Eastern Airlines pilot and his opulent lifestyle 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.200 caught the attention of the US Customs and Internal Revenue 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.440 Service agents assigned to the Lone Star task Force. As 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:02.080 its scope widened, Lone Star spread to Atlanta, Charleston, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:07.200 New York City, and Florida. Eisenberg was indicted in Houston, Atlanta, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.280 and Charleston. He was suspected of masterminding the funneling of 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.320 billions of dollars of laundered money through the Bahamas, Grand 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:20.720 Cayman Islands and South Florida Banks. That's also why his client, 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.560 Lamar Chester's involvement with a Nassau trust company and ownership 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.160 of islands became the focus of the sprawling investigation that 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.560 continued into Atlanta. And so you fly to Atlanta. 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.120 Yeah, and when we land, Bob gets a rental car 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.120 and we drive out to Lamar's place in the countryside 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:46.559 outside Cleveland, which was what's left of a tiny old 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.520 town in the Georgia Hills, about seventy five miles north 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:54.000 of Atlanta. A gas station, hardware store, little diner with 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:55.600 a fifties rock and roll theme. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.000 What was the atmosphere at Chester's place when you arrived, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:00.640 It was kind of strange. 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.920 First thing, they put Bob up in the guest house 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.840 on their property, drop them off there, and I'm staying 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.520 at the main house with Lamar and artists his wife, 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.360 who I can tell right off, really doesn't want me 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:12.960 there at all. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:14.800 Why did you get that impression? 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.120 I remember her as sort of a glowering presence, very dark, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.640 always in the background. I don't think she said a 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.320 word to me the whole time I was there. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:24.880 Sounds welcoming. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.520 It was kind of strange, and I guess starting then, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.480 but certainly over the years, I've come to think of 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.800 her as sort of a driving force beyond all. This 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.360 sounds to me like she sort of egged Lamar on, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.000 and she was quite capable of doing that. Lamar was 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.880 always trying to please her. Her previous marriage was to 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.640 a guy from a mob family. Happy and Elliott both 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.360 told me that Lamar got started buying airplanes with mob money, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.199 which is a big thing to consider here when we're 0:08:55.240 --> 0:09:01.280 considering possibilities that sometime later, when everything was going downhill, 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.760 Ron Elliot showed up and there was that previous husband 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.320 coming out of the Chester's house in Georgia. So, you know, 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.920 my impression was that she was making it easier for 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:18.480 Lamar to fulfill his fantasies. Drug smuggling were part of it. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:19.600 Women were part of it. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.880 A quick note here, I did request an interview with 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.200 the artist through her daughter aj Henderson, who declined my 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.280 request to speak with either one of them or to 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.559 comment on Phil's characterization. It's interesting though to me that 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.600 when you got there, you're the one staying in the 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.000 main house and Bob staying in the guest house. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.920 Yeah, it didn't make much sense to me at the time. Actually, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.320 nothing about this was making any sense. What I eventually 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.600 figured out was that they must have done this to 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.600 make it easier for me to talk to Lamar about 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.200 what my boss is back at CIA headquarters had in 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:56.960 mind for him. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.040 What was your interaction like with Lamar? What did you 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:00.920 guys talk about? 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.640 Not too much for sure, because I, for one thing, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:07.200 I didn't say that much. One time though, I remember 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.079 we were driving around the grounds there. He had about 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.400 five hundred acres there, rolling hills and pasture, and we 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.200 passed by this pond, an irrigation project that he was 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.760 having some work done on at the time, and for 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.360 some reason it reminded him. And this was right out 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.480 of the blue, because we'd never spoken about the subject before. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.199 Of Clay Williams, the intercept detective who was found dead 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:33.080 in the Everglades. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.359 We will wait. I'm sorry he brought up Clay Williams. 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.600 Why didn't you mention that before? 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.600 It just came to my mind when we were talking 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:45.559 about driving around with Lamoire passed this irrigation project, and 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.360 he said, you know, when they found him there, a 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.000 lot of people thought I did it, which I didn't, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.000 but it sure gained me a lot of respect. I'll 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.480 tell you that is sort of laughing when he said it. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:10:59.720 Not exactly comedic. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:10:59.960 Five. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.400 But did you push him for more details about what 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:04.080 had happened? 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.800 Like I have said before, I didn't ask too many questions. 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.000 I think that's one of the reasons I was able 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.480 to get along so Will. But I don't know then, 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.920 and I certainly didn't know now exactly why he brought 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.800 it up. You know, Lamar was always working the angles. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.959 Was efficient for information from me? Or was it a warning? 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:25.560 I don't know. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:32.160 Speaking of Clay Williams, let's pause here for a quick update. 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.080 At this point, I'd poured through newspaper clippings that covered 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.800 the Atlanta leg of Lone Star's grand jury hearings. In them, 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.720 there were multiple mentions of a man murdered and left 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:47.920 to alligators in the Everglades. Leslie Bickerton, a controversial witness 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:53.160 who is in accounts described as Chester's former accountant, tax consultant, 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.800 and or mistress, recounts conversation she had with Chester that 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:02.960 involved A Clayton sometime in Ed Clayton quote and two 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.320 other men had been murdered and fed to alligators unquote, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.360 and that quote Lamar was very mad at him unquote. 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.120 I was now pretty convinced that Ed Clayton could be 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.080 Clayton Williams, as the timing also checked out. MS. Bickerton's 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.319 testimony placed that conversation in the fall of nineteen eighty one. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.920 After making little headway with my initial records request, I 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.800 reached back out again to Jeff Lewis, the former Miami 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.800 Dade detective I interviewed in our first episode, who kindly 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:36.920 linked me with the man you're about to meet. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.199 My name is David Denmark, and I'm a detective with 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.679 the Miami Dade Homicide Cold Case Unit. I've been a 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.640 cop since nineteen ninety three, so going on thirty years, 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:50.880 and I spent twenty of those in homicide. 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.040 Although the Records Department had done a thorough search, they 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.480 were unable to locate the police report on Clay Williams's death. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.640 It was complicated by the fact that the department recycled 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.800 case file numbers in those days, and when they pulled 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.240 what they initially thought was the correct one, it contained 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.680 the report for an entirely different murder. Frustrating but somewhat 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.560 understandable given the time. According to Detective Denmark. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:22.040 There's over ten thousand goal cases in Miami Dade, which 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.120 is a staggering number. I would tell you that the 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:30.440 eighties were a very large part of the ten thousand cases. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.800 Compared to other years, they were handling two and three 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.600 a day, and that lasted for quite. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:42.160 Some time, particularly since eighty one and eighty two saw 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.640 record numbers of homicides in Miami. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.920 Yes, and to speak on that, the type of homicides 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.080 that they were receiving were in vehicles, are in pools, 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.320 meaning they would come out to the scene and there 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:00.640 were three people unidentified in a pool and gagged and 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.600 shot in the head. Or they would come into an 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.520 apartment and there'd be two or three people bound and gagged, 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.360 where they'd open up a trunk of a car and 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.680 find two people bound and gaged. So it was rough 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:15.320 on them. They were really a different type of investigator 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.040 as to the investigator today because they didn't have the 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.880 technology that we have today with advancement in DNA. DNA 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:28.640 in general don passes, tag readers, computers, websites. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.120 And so those reports compiled pre computer era were contained 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.600 in folders, consisted of physical paper clippings and photos stored 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:42.440 in files and warehoused storage that has withstood physical relocation 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.760 due to moves and catastrophes like hurricanes and flooding, all 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.520 of which makes locating older case files much more complicated 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.520 than simply searching a database. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.120 There's a process that we follow as Gold Case Detectives 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.400 to locate files, and that includes our archived files. We 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.480 contact our Property and Averdance bureau along with warehouse personnel 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.920 and we'd give them the case number. Sometimes it takes 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.480 two to three weeks for them to go through everything 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.720 documentation folders that were created back in the day. We 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.400 try to exhaust all of that before digging into the 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.520 medical examiner records. 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.320 And that's the point we'd gotten to. As Detective Denmark 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.640 pursued tracking down the medical records for Clay Williams, I 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.080 continued to look for anything that linked him to Lamar Chester. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.400 Back to Phil Stamford and his nineteen eighty four visit 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.400 to Lamar Chester's five hundred acre farm in Cleveland, Georgia. 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:49.960 Looking back on it all, I guess one of the 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.200 reasons he thought I knew more than I did was 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.480 because I never said that much. Most of the time, 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.880 I just listened. Another time, we were sitting in their 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.320 living room, nothing fancy about the place, shag carpets, heavy 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:08.440 wooden furniture, big picture window, overlooking the gravel parking lot, 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.480 listening to country music, and Lamar, for some reason, starts 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.440 talking about this valuable German pistol he's recently acquired and 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.720 brings it out to show. Actually, he says he's got 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.840 two of them, a matching pair. And I say, Lamar, 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.040 are you a pretty good shot? And he says, yeah, 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.800 not bad, at which point I say, hey, Lamar, why 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.360 don't we go out and get some target practice? Which 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.360 was really a strange thing for me to say. I 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.240 don't know where it came from, because I'm not a 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.040 gun person. I'd been to the target range in Miami 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.040 with Bob and some of the other Intercept guys maybe twice, 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.960 but I'm really less than an average shot, and here 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.720 I am challenging Lamar to a shooting contest. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:50.960 What happened? 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.760 Well, I remember Lamar and artists. It was in the 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:58.040 living room then looking at each other, exchanging glances. I 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.000 even thought I saw a flicker of or at least 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:06.360 uncertainty in his eyes. No, I don't think so, he said, because, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.880 as I realize now, he was probably worried that I'd 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.720 take the opportunity to shoot him and say it was 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.359 an accident. As he was telling everyone at the time, 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.800 they were either going to have to drop the charges 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.120 against him or they were going to have to kill him. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.959 So do you think maybe at this point he was 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:25.879 getting a little paranoid? 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.200 And to this day I have no idea how consciously 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.280 I was playing on Lamar's fears or his belief that 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.360 I was a CIA agent whould come to help him 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.840 with his great meal defense. But I can see now 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.160 I was really getting into it too. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.480 Wow. So how long were you a house guest and 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:51.480 that dysfunctional dynamic before the pre trial hearings began in Atlanta. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.280 It couldn't have been too long, you know, just three 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.360 or four days and Bob flew back to Miami, and 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.840 Lamar R moved operations to Atlanta pre trial hearings were 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.120 going on. And here I am staying at the rich 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.920 Carlton Hotel, which I know is costing more per night 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.120 than I'm probably paying a month in rent back in Miami, 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.840 watching these proceedings in federal court. Exactly why, I don't know. 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.919 I'm supposed to be a consultant, but no one Lamar 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.240 or anyone else ever asks me to do anything, So 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:27.000 I just watch. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.679 Did any of the testimony really stick out as noteworthy? 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.560 Well? Yeah, the star witness, In fact, the whole point 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.680 of the hearings was this tall, slim woman in her thirties, 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:45.920 Leslie Bickerton, who the newspapers were billing as Lamar's bookkeeper 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:47.520 and mistress. 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.160 Do you remember seeing her testify? What do you remember 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:51.680 about her? 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.080 Lamar's lawyers are trying to get the case thrown out 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.879 before it even gets to trial, and this is their claim. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.639 They say that Leslie, who at one point had skipped 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.240 out on Lamar and gone over to the Feds, gave 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.480 them some phony documents to make Lamar look even guiltier 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.560 than he was. That they actually created some false documents 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.840 and along with the investigator in Houston inserted them into 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.879 a collection of actual documents she'd kept from her time 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.680 working for Lamar, and those documents were used as evidence 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.640 for the grand jury. And after that, they say she'd 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.520 had a change of heart and gone back to Lamar 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.920 and told his lawyers all about it. 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.920 Yeah, from what I've read, she seemed kind of caught 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.520 in almost a tug of war in terms of her 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.040 loyalty between the prosecution and the defense. You know, I 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.280 did go back through old newspaper archives and looked into 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:49.639 the testimony she'd given in Houston, and it would appear 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.960 that Leslie Bickerton had gone to Georgia to help set 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:58.480 up that college campsite River Hills for Chester, and that 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.879 she ends up moving to Hugh and becomes a paid 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.960 witness for the government there. You know, the papers do 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:12.080 fluctuate between calling her Chester's mistress, bookkeeper, or accountant. But 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.840 you know, the interesting thing to me anyway, is that 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:19.240 she also mentioned that Chester had told her that he 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.919 quote got rid of a man and fed him to 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:27.359 the alligators. And she says that he mentioned the man's 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.560 name as Ed Clayton. So if the timing works out, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.679 that's a pretty big coincidence, don't you think. 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.560 Oh yeah, it's extremely important, and it sounds to me 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.199 like she's someone we definitely ought to talk to her. 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:43.520 I haven't talked to her, by the way. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.439 Yeah, you know, I've been trying to track her down. 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.320 The problem is that in the paper they mentioned that 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.640 she may or may not be in the witness Protection Plan. 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.440 I mean, they spell her name in several different ways 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.639 given the different publication. But I I've tried every single 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.840 possible combination to search for her and reached out to 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.920 even people I think are possible relatives in multiple states. 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:12.879 I mean, I'll keep you posted if I can and 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.960 get in touch with her. But Ceb Hackworth was also 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.920 covering at the same time that you were that pre 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.280 trial hearing in Atlanta, and he shared some pretty interesting 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:28.359 stories about driving Lamar to the Ritz Carlton to meet 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:29.920 Happy Miles. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:39.480 I had never done anything in close proximity to Lamar 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:44.280 other than in the Bahamas under the circumstances I had 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.879 described before, so it was totally unexpected that he wanted 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.440 me to give him a ride back to his hotel, 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:56.919 which was the Ritz Carlton. Of course, my car was 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.679 the car of a reporter who was making nine thousand 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.040 dollars a year, and I lived in my car. It 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.520 was full of trash, and I didn't even know if 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.480 another person could fit in the passenger seat. So I 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:14.520 was embarrassed to begin with. I might have made excuses 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:19.040 not to do it, except that he wanted to introduce 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:24.840 me to Happy Miles. I recognized the name from the indictment. 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.800 He was not indicted, but he was an unindicted co 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.800 conspirator in the case. I didn't know a great deal 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.359 about him. The name kind of drew attention to itself. 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.919 I was trying to be a reporter to gather information, 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.639 so yes, I wanted to meet Happy Miles for whatever 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.399 it was worth. As it turned out, it was well 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:50.240 worth the trip. 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.760 But first Cbe had to deal with the issue of 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.920 his cluttered car and rather empty wallet. 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:03.280 There was some embarrassment and professional tight rope that I 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.360 felt like I was walking there for a minute, because 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.840 I knew that I had barely enough money to get 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.440 out of the parking lot that my car was parked 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:18.280 in at the Federal Courthouse, and I knew that I 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.040 was not going to have enough money to park at 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.760 the Ritz Carlton and get out. So, in addition to 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:31.719 being embarrassed about the transportation situation, period, I didn't know 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.400 what to do about the money. People today may have 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:43.639 difficulty placing themselves in my circumstances, but ATMs were not 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:47.159 a thing. I did not have access to run and 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.040 get money somewhere. Even if I had it, I don't 0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:50.800 know that I did. 0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.240 So all of this is running through his head as 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:59.920 Cbe walks to his cluttered car with an international drug smuggler. 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.280 Lamar Chester, did you rush before him and try to 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.639 clear a space on the seat. 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:08.919 My recollection is that I did not have time to 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.240 even attempt to clean up my car. But at that 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:17.520 point in my life again, I lived in my car, 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.880 and I had valuable things. In the middle of the trash. 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:26.840