1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio previously on 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami. So you offered Lamar a million dollars 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: to land at his island and to bring the coke 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: back to the United States. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 2: Right. 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 3: One of the most significant things in this whole case 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 3: was Lamar Chaster's appearance before a Royal Commission of Inquiry 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: in the Bahamas. 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: So at the time that the inquiry was happening in 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: the Bahamas, were you even aware that it was going on? 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 4: Well, it was shortly after this that the mysterious Morgan 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 4: Cherry mentioned that I got a call from Bob who 13 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 4: said that Lamar wanted to hire me as a consultant. 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 4: There was going to be a pre trial hearing in Atlanta. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: You didn't worry that you were getting into something that 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: you might not escape from. 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 4: I just sort of walked right into it. 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Here's Chester talking to CB about Phil Stamford. 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 5: I am an eye, I mean, I am not by 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 5: any mean any and me and Agne all. 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: Right, So it's the fall of nineteen eighty four, and 22 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: basically you agree to go to Georgia to help Lamar Chester, 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: who you fully believe is a drug smuggler and who 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: fully believes that you were in the CIA create a 25 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: gray male defense pretty much. Yeah, and your girlfriend Mickey's 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 1: okay with all. 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 4: That, not exactly. Remember Bob and I were at the 28 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 4: Mutiny to meet Lamoiar, drinking pretty much all afternoon before 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 4: finally got to see him, and when we're finished, were 30 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 4: both drunkard than Skunk's. Drove back to the apartment I 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 4: got out. It was getting dark by then, so I 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: guess I figured time to take a nap. Is So 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 4: I dozed off, and when I wake up, for some reason, 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 4: I decide I need to call this girl I met 35 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 4: in Washington, d C. When I was up there, and 36 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 4: it's dark in the apartment and I'm still so out 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 4: of it. I don't hear Mickey open the door, and 38 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 4: she's probably standing there for several minutes before I hang up, 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 4: and there she is. By the time the call was over. 40 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: I guess that was it. 41 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 6: For Mickey and me. 42 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: Phil, I'm sorry, that's kind of awkward. 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 4: And the funny thing is the girl in DC didn't 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 4: even remember my name when I called her. 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren brad Pacheco and this is murder in Miami. 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 4: So I moved out of the Amsterdam Palace and ended 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 4: up renting a room from Jack McClintock, a writer friend 48 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 4: who actually did the piece you referred to earlier about 49 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 4: the Cardozo. He and his girlfriend had a place in 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 4: south of Miami. 51 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: So when Bob called about the pre trial hearings, you 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: were basically available for a consulting gig. 53 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 4: Whatever that might be. Yeah, Bob said, I was supposed 54 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 4: to look for inconsistencies in the daily transcript, and I'd 55 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 4: be paid a couple hundred dollars a day plus travel, 56 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 4: So it didn't sound like such a bad idea. Bob said, 57 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 4: I could stay at Lamar's place in Cleveland while I 58 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 4: was up there, and he was going to get the 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 4: tickets and we'd fly on. 60 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean, not to sound like a broken record, but 61 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: you seriously didn't have any hesitation about getting messed up 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: with a federal investigation. 63 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 4: You've got to realize I still didn't quite believe that 64 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: what was going on was even real. But if Lamar 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 4: thought I was with the CIA, and I told him 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 4: the God's honest truth that I wasn't, who was I 67 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 4: to turn down the money? Mostly though, I was just 68 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 4: going whichever way the wind was blowing. 69 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: Well, you know, at this point you had to have 70 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: put some thought into why he would have thought that 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: you were actually a CIA operative. I mean, those guys 72 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: weren't exactly naive or stupid. 73 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 4: Well, it has taken me years to get my head 74 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: around that one. But here's what I think they were thinking. Now, 75 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 4: here's this guy down here from Washington, DC. He's written 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 4: for the New York Times on national security matters, for 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: Christ's sakes, and everyone knows the agency uses journalists as 78 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 4: cover all the time. He's even worked for congressman on 79 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 4: the House Armed Services Committee and for a think tank 80 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 4: in DC. It would be easy enough for them to 81 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 4: have looked it up. So here's what they're thinking. Here's 82 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 4: this guy. He's not down here writing, he's not asking questions, 83 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 4: and he's obviously not interested in the money. No one's 84 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 4: that dumb, so he must be with the c I A. 85 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: Well, you know there's another possible reason too. Here's the 86 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: recording of the taped phone call between Chester and C. B. 87 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 7: Hackworth. 88 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: I have a guy I'm made together our agreement Watt 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: would I am not, by any meaning comment that he's 90 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: not currently and to one of the guys that worshiped 91 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: with his own attorney of. 92 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 3: The combers on the guy, Russell Burt. 93 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 4: I don't know who this guy is, Russell Burns or 94 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 4: Russell Brooke. I never met him. There was a Russell 95 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 4: Brooke who was in the indictment, so he would have 96 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 4: testified in the Lone Star grand jury or have been 97 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 4: a subject of the Lone Star brand jury. But whatever 98 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 4: it was, I have no idea how he could have 99 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 4: come to that conclusion. Probably just the same as Lamar 100 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 4: and Bob. No one can be that dumb, so he 101 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 4: must be with the CIA for background. 102 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: Operation Lone Star was a sprawling federal investigation of money laundering, 103 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: but it began in nineteen eighty one as a probe 104 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: of oil price manipulation in Houston. One of the principal 105 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: targets of the initial probe, Miami tax lawyer Lance Eisenberg, 106 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: also happened to represent Lamar Chester, which is how the 107 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: former Miami based Eastern Airlines pilot and his opulent lifestyle 108 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: caught the attention of the US Customs and Internal Revenue 109 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: Service agents assigned to the Lone Star task Force. As 110 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: its scope widened, Lone Star spread to Atlanta, Charleston, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, 111 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: New York City, and Florida. Eisenberg was indicted in Houston, Atlanta, 112 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: and Charleston. He was suspected of masterminding the funneling of 113 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: billions of dollars of laundered money through the Bahamas, Grand 114 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: Cayman Islands and South Florida Banks. That's also why his client, 115 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: Lamar Chester's involvement with a Nassau trust company and ownership 116 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: of islands became the focus of the sprawling investigation that 117 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: continued into Atlanta. And so you fly to Atlanta. 118 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and when we land, Bob gets a rental car 119 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 4: and we drive out to Lamar's place in the countryside 120 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 4: outside Cleveland, which was what's left of a tiny old 121 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 4: town in the Georgia Hills, about seventy five miles north 122 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 4: of Atlanta. A gas station, hardware store, little diner with 123 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 4: a fifties rock and roll theme. 124 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: What was the atmosphere at Chester's place when you arrived, 125 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: It was kind of strange. 126 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 4: First thing, they put Bob up in the guest house 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 4: on their property, drop them off there, and I'm staying 128 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 4: at the main house with Lamar and artists his wife, 129 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 4: who I can tell right off, really doesn't want me 130 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 4: there at all. 131 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: Why did you get that impression? 132 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 4: I remember her as sort of a glowering presence, very dark, 133 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 4: always in the background. I don't think she said a 134 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 4: word to me the whole time I was there. 135 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: Sounds welcoming. 136 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: It was kind of strange, and I guess starting then, 137 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 4: but certainly over the years, I've come to think of 138 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: her as sort of a driving force beyond all. This 139 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 4: sounds to me like she sort of egged Lamar on, 140 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 4: and she was quite capable of doing that. Lamar was 141 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 4: always trying to please her. Her previous marriage was to 142 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 4: a guy from a mob family. Happy and Elliott both 143 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 4: told me that Lamar got started buying airplanes with mob money, 144 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 4: which is a big thing to consider here when we're 145 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 4: considering possibilities that sometime later, when everything was going downhill, 146 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 4: Ron Elliot showed up and there was that previous husband 147 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 4: coming out of the Chester's house in Georgia. So, you know, 148 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 4: my impression was that she was making it easier for 149 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 4: Lamar to fulfill his fantasies. Drug smuggling were part of it. 150 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 4: Women were part of it. 151 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: A quick note here, I did request an interview with 152 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: the artist through her daughter aj Henderson, who declined my 153 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: request to speak with either one of them or to 154 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: comment on Phil's characterization. It's interesting though to me that 155 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: when you got there, you're the one staying in the 156 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: main house and Bob staying in the guest house. 157 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, it didn't make much sense to me at the time. Actually, 158 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 4: nothing about this was making any sense. What I eventually 159 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 4: figured out was that they must have done this to 160 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 4: make it easier for me to talk to Lamar about 161 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 4: what my boss is back at CIA headquarters had in 162 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 4: mind for him. 163 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: What was your interaction like with Lamar? What did you 164 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: guys talk about? 165 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 4: Not too much for sure, because I, for one thing, 166 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 4: I didn't say that much. One time though, I remember 167 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 4: we were driving around the grounds there. He had about 168 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 4: five hundred acres there, rolling hills and pasture, and we 169 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 4: passed by this pond, an irrigation project that he was 170 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 4: having some work done on at the time, and for 171 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 4: some reason it reminded him. And this was right out 172 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 4: of the blue, because we'd never spoken about the subject before. 173 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 4: Of Clay Williams, the intercept detective who was found dead 174 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 4: in the Everglades. 175 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,359 Speaker 1: We will wait. I'm sorry he brought up Clay Williams. 176 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: Why didn't you mention that before? 177 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 4: It just came to my mind when we were talking 178 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 4: about driving around with Lamoire passed this irrigation project, and 179 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 4: he said, you know, when they found him there, a 180 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 4: lot of people thought I did it, which I didn't, 181 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 4: but it sure gained me a lot of respect. I'll 182 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 4: tell you that is sort of laughing when he said it. 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: Not exactly comedic. 184 00:10:59,760 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 3: Five. 185 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: But did you push him for more details about what 186 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: had happened? 187 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: Like I have said before, I didn't ask too many questions. 188 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: I think that's one of the reasons I was able 189 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 4: to get along so Will. But I don't know then, 190 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: and I certainly didn't know now exactly why he brought 191 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 4: it up. You know, Lamar was always working the angles. 192 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 4: Was efficient for information from me? Or was it a warning? 193 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 4: I don't know. 194 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: Speaking of Clay Williams, let's pause here for a quick update. 195 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: At this point, I'd poured through newspaper clippings that covered 196 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: the Atlanta leg of Lone Star's grand jury hearings. In them, 197 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: there were multiple mentions of a man murdered and left 198 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: to alligators in the Everglades. Leslie Bickerton, a controversial witness 199 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: who is in accounts described as Chester's former accountant, tax consultant, 200 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: and or mistress, recounts conversation she had with Chester that 201 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: involved A Clayton sometime in Ed Clayton quote and two 202 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: other men had been murdered and fed to alligators unquote, 203 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: and that quote Lamar was very mad at him unquote. 204 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: I was now pretty convinced that Ed Clayton could be 205 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: Clayton Williams, as the timing also checked out. MS. Bickerton's 206 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: testimony placed that conversation in the fall of nineteen eighty one. 207 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: After making little headway with my initial records request, I 208 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: reached back out again to Jeff Lewis, the former Miami 209 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: Dade detective I interviewed in our first episode, who kindly 210 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: linked me with the man you're about to meet. 211 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 6: My name is David Denmark, and I'm a detective with 212 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 6: the Miami Dade Homicide Cold Case Unit. I've been a 213 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 6: cop since nineteen ninety three, so going on thirty years, 214 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 6: and I spent twenty of those in homicide. 215 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: Although the Records Department had done a thorough search, they 216 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: were unable to locate the police report on Clay Williams's death. 217 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: It was complicated by the fact that the department recycled 218 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: case file numbers in those days, and when they pulled 219 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: what they initially thought was the correct one, it contained 220 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: the report for an entirely different murder. Frustrating but somewhat 221 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: understandable given the time. According to Detective Denmark. 222 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 6: There's over ten thousand goal cases in Miami Dade, which 223 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 6: is a staggering number. I would tell you that the 224 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 6: eighties were a very large part of the ten thousand cases. 225 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 6: Compared to other years, they were handling two and three 226 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 6: a day, and that lasted for quite. 227 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Some time, particularly since eighty one and eighty two saw 228 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: record numbers of homicides in Miami. 229 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 6: Yes, and to speak on that, the type of homicides 230 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 6: that they were receiving were in vehicles, are in pools, 231 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 6: meaning they would come out to the scene and there 232 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 6: were three people unidentified in a pool and gagged and 233 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 6: shot in the head. Or they would come into an 234 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 6: apartment and there'd be two or three people bound and gagged, 235 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 6: where they'd open up a trunk of a car and 236 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 6: find two people bound and gaged. So it was rough 237 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 6: on them. They were really a different type of investigator 238 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 6: as to the investigator today because they didn't have the 239 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 6: technology that we have today with advancement in DNA. DNA 240 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 6: in general don passes, tag readers, computers, websites. 241 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: And so those reports compiled pre computer era were contained 242 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: in folders, consisted of physical paper clippings and photos stored 243 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: in files and warehoused storage that has withstood physical relocation 244 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: due to moves and catastrophes like hurricanes and flooding, all 245 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: of which makes locating older case files much more complicated 246 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: than simply searching a database. 247 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 6: There's a process that we follow as Gold Case Detectives 248 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 6: to locate files, and that includes our archived files. We 249 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 6: contact our Property and Averdance bureau along with warehouse personnel 250 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 6: and we'd give them the case number. Sometimes it takes 251 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 6: two to three weeks for them to go through everything 252 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 6: documentation folders that were created back in the day. We 253 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 6: try to exhaust all of that before digging into the 254 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 6: medical examiner records. 255 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: And that's the point we'd gotten to. As Detective Denmark 256 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: pursued tracking down the medical records for Clay Williams, I 257 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: continued to look for anything that linked him to Lamar Chester. 258 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: Back to Phil Stamford and his nineteen eighty four visit 259 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: to Lamar Chester's five hundred acre farm in Cleveland, Georgia. 260 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 4: Looking back on it all, I guess one of the 261 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 4: reasons he thought I knew more than I did was 262 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 4: because I never said that much. Most of the time, 263 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 4: I just listened. Another time, we were sitting in their 264 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 4: living room, nothing fancy about the place, shag carpets, heavy 265 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 4: wooden furniture, big picture window, overlooking the gravel parking lot, 266 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 4: listening to country music, and Lamar, for some reason, starts 267 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 4: talking about this valuable German pistol he's recently acquired and 268 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: brings it out to show. Actually, he says he's got 269 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 4: two of them, a matching pair. And I say, Lamar, 270 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: are you a pretty good shot? And he says, yeah, 271 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: not bad, at which point I say, hey, Lamar, why 272 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 4: don't we go out and get some target practice? Which 273 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 4: was really a strange thing for me to say. I 274 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 4: don't know where it came from, because I'm not a 275 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 4: gun person. I'd been to the target range in Miami 276 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 4: with Bob and some of the other Intercept guys maybe twice, 277 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 4: but I'm really less than an average shot, and here 278 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 4: I am challenging Lamar to a shooting contest. 279 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: What happened? 280 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 4: Well, I remember Lamar and artists. It was in the 281 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 4: living room then looking at each other, exchanging glances. I 282 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 4: even thought I saw a flicker of or at least 283 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 4: uncertainty in his eyes. No, I don't think so, he said, because, 284 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 4: as I realize now, he was probably worried that I'd 285 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 4: take the opportunity to shoot him and say it was 286 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 4: an accident. As he was telling everyone at the time, 287 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 4: they were either going to have to drop the charges 288 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 4: against him or they were going to have to kill him. 289 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 1: So do you think maybe at this point he was 290 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: getting a little paranoid? 291 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 4: And to this day I have no idea how consciously 292 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 4: I was playing on Lamar's fears or his belief that 293 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 4: I was a CIA agent whould come to help him 294 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 4: with his great meal defense. But I can see now 295 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 4: I was really getting into it too. 296 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: Wow. So how long were you a house guest and 297 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: that dysfunctional dynamic before the pre trial hearings began in Atlanta. 298 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 4: It couldn't have been too long, you know, just three 299 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 4: or four days and Bob flew back to Miami, and 300 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: Lamar R moved operations to Atlanta pre trial hearings were 301 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 4: going on. And here I am staying at the rich 302 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 4: Carlton Hotel, which I know is costing more per night 303 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 4: than I'm probably paying a month in rent back in Miami, 304 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 4: watching these proceedings in federal court. Exactly why, I don't know. 305 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 4: I'm supposed to be a consultant, but no one Lamar 306 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: or anyone else ever asks me to do anything, So 307 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 4: I just watch. 308 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: Did any of the testimony really stick out as noteworthy? 309 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: Well? Yeah, the star witness, In fact, the whole point 310 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 4: of the hearings was this tall, slim woman in her thirties, 311 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 4: Leslie Bickerton, who the newspapers were billing as Lamar's bookkeeper 312 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 4: and mistress. 313 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: Do you remember seeing her testify? What do you remember 314 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: about her? 315 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 4: Lamar's lawyers are trying to get the case thrown out 316 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 4: before it even gets to trial, and this is their claim. 317 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 4: They say that Leslie, who at one point had skipped 318 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 4: out on Lamar and gone over to the Feds, gave 319 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 4: them some phony documents to make Lamar look even guiltier 320 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 4: than he was. That they actually created some false documents 321 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 4: and along with the investigator in Houston inserted them into 322 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 4: a collection of actual documents she'd kept from her time 323 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 4: working for Lamar, and those documents were used as evidence 324 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 4: for the grand jury. And after that, they say she'd 325 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 4: had a change of heart and gone back to Lamar 326 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 4: and told his lawyers all about it. 327 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I've read, she seemed kind of caught 328 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: in almost a tug of war in terms of her 329 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: loyalty between the prosecution and the defense. You know, I 330 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: did go back through old newspaper archives and looked into 331 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: the testimony she'd given in Houston, and it would appear 332 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: that Leslie Bickerton had gone to Georgia to help set 333 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: up that college campsite River Hills for Chester, and that 334 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: she ends up moving to Hugh and becomes a paid 335 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: witness for the government there. You know, the papers do 336 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: fluctuate between calling her Chester's mistress, bookkeeper, or accountant. But 337 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: you know, the interesting thing to me anyway, is that 338 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: she also mentioned that Chester had told her that he 339 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: quote got rid of a man and fed him to 340 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: the alligators. And she says that he mentioned the man's 341 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: name as Ed Clayton. So if the timing works out, 342 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: that's a pretty big coincidence, don't you think. 343 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's extremely important, and it sounds to me 344 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 4: like she's someone we definitely ought to talk to her. 345 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 4: I haven't talked to her, by the way. 346 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I've been trying to track her down. 347 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: The problem is that in the paper they mentioned that 348 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: she may or may not be in the witness Protection Plan. 349 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: I mean, they spell her name in several different ways 350 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: given the different publication. But I I've tried every single 351 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: possible combination to search for her and reached out to 352 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: even people I think are possible relatives in multiple states. 353 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I'll keep you posted if I can and 354 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: get in touch with her. But Ceb Hackworth was also 355 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: covering at the same time that you were that pre 356 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: trial hearing in Atlanta, and he shared some pretty interesting 357 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: stories about driving Lamar to the Ritz Carlton to meet 358 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: Happy Miles. 359 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: I had never done anything in close proximity to Lamar 360 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: other than in the Bahamas under the circumstances I had 361 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 3: described before, so it was totally unexpected that he wanted 362 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 3: me to give him a ride back to his hotel, 363 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 3: which was the Ritz Carlton. Of course, my car was 364 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 3: the car of a reporter who was making nine thousand 365 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 3: dollars a year, and I lived in my car. It 366 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 3: was full of trash, and I didn't even know if 367 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 3: another person could fit in the passenger seat. So I 368 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: was embarrassed to begin with. I might have made excuses 369 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 3: not to do it, except that he wanted to introduce 370 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: me to Happy Miles. I recognized the name from the indictment. 371 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 3: He was not indicted, but he was an unindicted co 372 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: conspirator in the case. I didn't know a great deal 373 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 3: about him. The name kind of drew attention to itself. 374 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 3: I was trying to be a reporter to gather information, 375 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 3: so yes, I wanted to meet Happy Miles for whatever 376 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 3: it was worth. As it turned out, it was well 377 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: worth the trip. 378 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: But first Cbe had to deal with the issue of 379 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: his cluttered car and rather empty wallet. 380 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: There was some embarrassment and professional tight rope that I 381 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 3: felt like I was walking there for a minute, because 382 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 3: I knew that I had barely enough money to get 383 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 3: out of the parking lot that my car was parked 384 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: in at the Federal Courthouse, and I knew that I 385 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 3: was not going to have enough money to park at 386 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: the Ritz Carlton and get out. So, in addition to 387 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 3: being embarrassed about the transportation situation, period, I didn't know 388 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 3: what to do about the money. People today may have 389 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 3: difficulty placing themselves in my circumstances, but ATMs were not 390 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 3: a thing. I did not have access to run and 391 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 3: get money somewhere. Even if I had it, I don't 392 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: know that I did. 393 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: So all of this is running through his head as 394 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: Cbe walks to his cluttered car with an international drug smuggler. 395 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Lamar Chester, did you rush before him and try to 396 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: clear a space on the seat. 397 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 3: My recollection is that I did not have time to 398 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: even attempt to clean up my car. But at that 399 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 3: point in my life again, I lived in my car, 400 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 3: and I had valuable things. In the middle of the trash. 401 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 3: McDonald's wrappers was just a pile of garbage. You opened 402 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 3: the door and it spilled out. It was like something 403 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: out of a comedy, except to me it wasn't. On 404 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 3: top of the embarrassment, I was not entirely comfortable giving 405 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 3: him a ride, period, because I wanted to keep him 406 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 3: at arm's length, and he was closer than arm's length 407 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 3: in my car. Lamar folded himself into my car. Somehow 408 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: he didn't seem to mind sitting in my used McDonald's. 409 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 3: I believe it was before we even left the parking lot. 410 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 3: I brought up to Lamar that I wasn't going to 411 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 3: be able to do this without borrowing enough money for parking, 412 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 3: and I think seeing my car, he understood it perfectly well. 413 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 3: And this was one of the more disconcerting moments to 414 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 3: me of my entire experience of knowing Lamar Chester, because 415 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 3: I was so careful to try to keep that professional distance. 416 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: He said he would loan me the money, no problem, 417 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 3: and he was in the passenger seat. He held out 418 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 3: his wallet, opened it and it was full of large bills, 419 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: and he turned his head in the other direction in 420 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: a almost exaggerated manner. 421 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: I cannot even imagine that moment. 422 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 3: It was a moment that I was not really prepared for. 423 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 3: And by that I don't mean in any way that 424 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 3: I was tempted to take any of that money for myself. 425 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 3: It was that it was so obvious to me what 426 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 3: he was doing. He was turning his head, and it 427 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: was a tacit invitation to take whatever I wanted. I 428 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: had written enough articles about other people who had come 429 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 3: under his influence, the chief of Police of Cleveland, others 430 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 3: who were literally on his payroll. Dan Davis, who had 431 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 3: been a reporter at one time and ended up as 432 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 3: an officer of the company that held River Hills with Leslie. 433 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: Bickerton, basically working as a publicist. 434 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 3: Almost very aware of Dan and his transgressions, certainly as 435 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 3: a reporter, because he continued to write about Lamar after 436 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 3: he had was working for Lamar. You just don't do that, 437 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: You certainly don't do it without telling your readers that 438 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 3: you have that conflict. Dan wrote the notorious article in 439 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 3: the Telegraph that had a glaring headline that said unglued 440 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 3: agents pursue White County farmer. As if that was as 441 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,479 Speaker 3: simple as the government's investigation of Lamar Chester was. I 442 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 3: was very keenly aware of people like Dan Davis and 443 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: Charlie Harrington, the chief of Police, who had become financially 444 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 3: beholden to Lamar Chester. I had written. I certainly was 445 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: not going to be one of them. So I was 446 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 3: quite uncomfortable taking even the money for parking. So he 447 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: held out his wallet. It was full of large denomination bills, hundreds, 448 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: and I looked while his head is turned for a 449 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: small bill, and I believe it was a ten dollars bill. 450 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 3: I reached in there with my fingers, my forefinger and 451 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 3: my thumb. If I had a pair of tweezers with me, 452 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 3: I would have tried to use them to pull it out. 453 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 3: I so did not want to touch any of the 454 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: real money in the drug smuggler's wallet. But I got 455 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 3: this ten dollars bill out and I said something like okay, 456 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 3: And when he looked back at me, I was holding 457 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 3: the ten dollar bill in my four finger and thumb 458 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: for him to see what I had taken. 459 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: What happened after he saw you holding a ten dollar bill? 460 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: He was grinning. I think that there was an unspoken 461 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 3: understanding of what had just happened. That he gave me 462 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 3: the opportunity to be bribed and I did not take it, 463 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 3: and he was kind of amused. I told him profusely 464 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 3: that I was going to repay this ten dollars, the 465 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: ten dollars that I borrowed. Aside, I wasn't sure why 466 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: I was going to the Ritz Carlton to meet this fella. 467 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: I didn't know why he wanted me to. This is 468 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 3: all sort of you know, back room drug smuggling buddy stuff, 469 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: and he's inviting me to have an inside view at it. 470 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: In my car. He's telling me that Happy Miles had 471 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 3: cut a deal with the government in exchange for immunity, 472 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: and he was supposed to testify against Lamar and other 473 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 3: defendants in the case. Yet apparently Happy Miles was in 474 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 3: Lamar's hotel room. I really couldn't quite reconcile that if 475 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 3: the guy is going to be testifying against you, why 476 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 3: have you got him in your room? 477 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: As CB Chaufford chester to the Ritz Carlton, his thoughts 478 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: were spinning. 479 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 3: I mean, are there people in his room waiting to 480 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: kill me? You know, those kinds of thoughts flash in 481 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: your mind when you're dealing with someone who was accused 482 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 3: of the things that Lamar was accused of, and that 483 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: had the kind of testimony that had arisen in the case. 484 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: A quick aside, in addition to the mention of a 485 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: man fed to alligators who may or may not have 486 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: been Clayton Williams, I discovered that in pre trial transcripts, 487 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: a prosecutor involved in the Houston leg of Lone Star 488 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: specifically refers to Clayton Williams by name as a potential 489 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: witness against Lamar Chester. This lends extra weight to possible 490 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: motive for his murder, particularly since Chester was quoted as 491 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: calling him a snitch who had to be gotten rid 492 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: of because information he possessed made him a threat. In 493 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: addition to Williams, there were also several other lone Star 494 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: witnesses who died prior to or shortly after testifying. I'll 495 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: let Phil Stanford explain yeah. 496 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 4: One of them was Sibley Riggs Papers, described as a 497 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 4: beautiful young yacht salesman whose body was found stuffed in 498 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 4: a trunk of a Mercedes in the Fort Lauderdal Airport 499 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 4: in late nineteen eighty one, shortly after she'd been subpoenaed 500 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 4: to appear before the grand jury in Houston. Another was 501 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 4: her boyfriend, a mobster named Alan Rivenbark by all all accounts, 502 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 4: a slightly crazy, dangerous person who had already testified before 503 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,719 Speaker 4: the grand Jury. He died in a plane crash on 504 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 4: his way with some others to a mob hangout in Colorado. 505 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: There was also an Alfred J. Miller, a business associate 506 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: of Chesters with ties to River Hills, who died under 507 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances in Nashville and was cremated almost immediately as 508 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: in the next day. This happened in nineteen eighty two, 509 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: shortly after he learned he was about to be subpoenaed 510 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: to testify before Lone Star's Atlanta grand jury. 511 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 4: So the question is, you know, were these connected if 512 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 4: they had testified against Lamar, where they have been a 513 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 4: further danger to him? If Lamar wasn't involved, was the 514 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 4: mob because the mob certainly didn't want anyone expanding the 515 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 4: scope of the investigation. Whatever the answer is, certainly it 516 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 4: would have weighed heavily on Lamar's mind at the time, 517 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 4: whether it was involved or not. Because of the additional 518 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 4: deaths around him, he was quite worried about his own future. 519 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: Back to Ceb Halfworth meeting mister Happy Miles at the 520 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: Atlanta Ritz Carlton in nineteen eighty four, mister Miles having 521 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: just returned from a sort of two year exile that 522 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: was part of his immunity deal, two years basically spent 523 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: sailing around the world. 524 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 3: Lamar was happy, no pun intended. He could not have 525 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 3: been more pleased that Happy Miles had made a deal 526 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 3: that got him off the hook, even at Lamar's expense. 527 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 3: What Lamar had to say about that was that he 528 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 3: wasn't worried. He had nothing to hide, that whatever Happy 529 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 3: was going to testify to truthfully was not anything that 530 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: would get Lamar in trouble, according to Lamar. 531 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: As Lamar escorted Cbe through the hotel lobby, they were 532 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: met with a rather warm reception. 533 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 3: It's hard to tell where Lamar ended and the Riz 534 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 3: Carleton began because their customer service is so good they 535 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 3: know their guests. As we walked in, somebody who worked 536 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 3: at the Ritz, Carlton did say welcome back, mister Chester. 537 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: He stayed at the Rich Carleton when he was in 538 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 3: Atlanta for those prolonged pre trial hearings. It was his 539 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 3: home away from home. 540 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: I want to hear your first impressions of Happy Miles 541 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: when the door opens. 542 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 3: I would say his name suits him, almost like something 543 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 3: Carl Hyason would come up with for a novel. I'm 544 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 3: not at all sure that Lamar had even told Happy 545 00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 3: that I was coming, or who I was. It may 546 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 3: have been a surprise to Happy. Didn't really matter. We 547 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 3: got this warm reception. I think Happy had already had 548 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 3: a few drinks and was making one for himself. Happy 549 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 3: was not physically what I had imagined. The other codefendants 550 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 3: who I had seen, like Ron Elliott, they were all 551 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 3: what you would expect an airline pilot to look like, 552 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 3: you know, a former airline pilot. I could always picture 553 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 3: Lamar wearing an Eastern Airlines uniform. I could picture Ron 554 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 3: Elliott wearing an Eastern Airlines uniform. I saw Happy Miles, 555 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 3: and I could not picture him wearing an Eastern Airlines uniform. 556 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 3: I'm not sure I could have pictured him wearing an 557 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 3: Eastern Airlines mechanics outfit. Happy radiated good times. Without knowing 558 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 3: his biography, you could infer from his physical appearance that 559 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 3: he was a guy that liked to have a good time. 560 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: A persona that didn't seem too dampened by the current circumstances. 561 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 3: It's hard to say what I expected, but it was 562 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: not laughter and this gregarious reception from somebody who is 563 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 3: so immersed in consequential legal actions with the United States government. Here, 564 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 3: I've got on one hand, Lamar Chester, who is flaunting 565 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 3: practically his relationship with a member of the news media, 566 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 3: and you've got Happy Miles, who is virtually flaunting the 567 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: fact he's just got the deal of a lifetime. 568 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: And in true form, that's not all Happy was flaunting. 569 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,879 Speaker 3: These days, you'd use the word bling. I don't think 570 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 3: that was a thing then. It was unusual in my 571 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 3: experience to see someone wearing so much of it. He 572 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 3: had a rolex, he had something gold around his neck. 573 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 3: He had a bracelet that spelled out his name in 574 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 3: what I took to be diamonds. And I assumed that 575 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 3: all this jewelry that looked like it was gold probably 576 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: was gold. And again, what little I knew from Lamar 577 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 3: on the way over to the hotel was about an 578 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 3: immunity deal. I learned more about it in the room. 579 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 3: Federal prosecutors in this case obviously did not make public 580 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 3: developments like immunity deals. First of all, often it would 581 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 3: get someone killed. But they didn't want us knowing anything 582 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 3: that wasn't in open court. 583 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: And yet here was a very happy, happy Miles, happily 584 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: sharing his story with a young reporter on the record. 585 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 3: I mean, you couldn't make this fella up as a character, 586 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 3: and he's real, and he is in Lamar Chester's hotel room. 587 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 7: So happy basically backed up what you had heard Chester 588 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 7: testified to in the Bahamas his claim that he had 589 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 7: done everything with the understanding of the DA and the CIA. 590 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 3: Happy absolutely backed up Lamar's claims. Happy backed up everything 591 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 3: Lamar said in terms of general statements about the drug 592 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 3: smuggling having been done in concert with different government agencies 593 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 3: and agents, that agents supposedly got information from Lamar, passed 594 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 3: it on, acted on it successfully, according to Lamar, and 595 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 3: in turn they let him continue to smuggle marijuana. 596 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: After all these years. What sticks out most to C. B. 597 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: Hackworth about the surreal gathering at the Ritz Carlton was 598 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: the way it contrasted with the reality that other potential 599 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: witnesses involved with the investigation, like Clay Williams, wound up dead. 600 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 3: They didn't know who killed who, but there were dead people. 601 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 3: It bothered me. I was a lot younger and braver 602 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 3: than I am. 603 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: Now. 604 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,720 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I was ever reckless, but I didn't 605 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 3: take as many precautions as I probably would now. But 606 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 3: here I am in this room with two of the 607 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 3: major players, and I can't believe that Happy Miles is 608 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 3: in the room if he's going to testify against Lamar Chester, 609 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 3: if even a small amount of what has been either 610 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 3: implied or outright stated about Lamar Chester being dangerous is true, 611 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 3: then how can you be a witness against him? A 612 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 3: newly agreed upon I'm getting immunity, and I'm going to 613 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 3: testify against you, witness, and they're sitting now yucking it 614 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 3: up about old times. I mean, Lamar could killed him 615 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,879 Speaker 3: in front of me for all happiness. But I did 616 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 3: take that to mean that Happy Miles literally was not 617 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 3: afraid of Lamar Chester. 618 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: But cb he was beginning to fear. The real danger 619 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 1: involved the information Chester had shared and the people linked 620 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:53,879 Speaker 1: to it. 621 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 3: I'm the person he called in the middle of the night. 622 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 3: I worried that I knew too much. 623 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: It's really interesting to feel like you're the confidante of 624 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: somebody who knows things that may or may not have 625 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: gotten people killed, and you're now on the receiving end 626 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: of that information. Yes, on the next murder of Miami, 627 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: Perseverance pays off on double fronts in a connection with 628 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: a mysterious key player in the Lone Star legal proceedings. 629 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 4: I can understand she would have been worried back then. 630 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 4: For sure, bodies turn it up all over the. 631 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: Place, and a major break in the search for information 632 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: about the murder of Clay Williams. This man who was 633 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: going to turn on him and had to get rid 634 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: of him. Murder of Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. 635 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Lauren Bright Pacheco, Taylor Chicoigne, and Phil Stamford. 636 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: Written by Phil Stamford and Lauren Greg Pacheco, Audio editing 637 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: and sound design by Nicholas Harder, Evan Tyer, and Taylor 638 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: chackoine featuring music by Evan Tyre, Phil Meyer, John Murchison 639 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: and Taylor Chackoinne. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 640 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get the stories 641 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: that matter to you.