WEBVTT - Designing a Drone That Delivers 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.836 --> 0:00:23.396 If you live in the Dallas Fort Worth area, there 0:00:23.476 --> 0:00:26.516 is a good chance that right now you can open 0:00:26.596 --> 0:00:28.596 up an app on your phone and order a cup 0:00:28.676 --> 0:00:32.436 of coffee or a bottle of ibuprofen from a nearby Walmart, 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:36.756 and then about fifteen minutes later, a drone will appear 0:00:36.876 --> 0:00:40.316 hovering in the sky above your yard. The drone will 0:00:40.476 --> 0:00:42.996 lower down a rope that holds a box that has 0:00:43.036 --> 0:00:46.636 your ibuprofen in it. Then the drone will leave the 0:00:46.676 --> 0:00:49.396 box on the ground, pull up the rope and fly away. 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:52.676 People have been talking about drone delivery for a long 0:00:52.716 --> 0:00:56.076 time now. There have been pilot programs and test sites, 0:00:56.556 --> 0:01:00.236 but this thing in Dallas is big. Millions of people 0:01:00.396 --> 0:01:03.196 live in the delivery zone. It's the first place in 0:01:03.236 --> 0:01:06.516 the US where for lots and lots of people, drone 0:01:06.516 --> 0:01:16.796 delivery seems set to become a normal, everyday thing. I'm 0:01:16.836 --> 0:01:19.236 Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the show 0:01:19.276 --> 0:01:21.436 where I talk to people who are trying to make 0:01:21.516 --> 0:01:26.316 technological progress. My guest today is Adam Woodworth. Adam is 0:01:26.356 --> 0:01:30.236 the CEO of Wing. Wing is owned by Alphabet and 0:01:30.316 --> 0:01:33.036 it's one of the two drone companies doing deliveries for 0:01:33.116 --> 0:01:36.796 Walmart in Dallas. Wing has also been making deliveries in 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:41.236 Australia for several years now. Adam's problem is this, how 0:01:41.276 --> 0:01:44.476 do you turn a delivery drone into something as boring 0:01:44.636 --> 0:01:48.716 and ubiquitous as a shopping cart? To start, I asked 0:01:48.716 --> 0:01:51.916 Adam to make the case for his project, like, why 0:01:51.916 --> 0:01:54.756 should I be happy to learn that delivery drones may 0:01:54.796 --> 0:01:58.036 soon be coming to a sky near me delivering coffee 0:01:58.116 --> 0:01:59.596 and burritos to my neighbors. 0:02:01.316 --> 0:02:03.836 I've caught a lot of flack over the years for 0:02:04.036 --> 0:02:07.716 the burrito copter, and like, oh, you're just using drones 0:02:07.756 --> 0:02:09.956 to fire around and deliver cups coffee and stuff. But 0:02:10.756 --> 0:02:13.516 at the core of it, like people eat food every day, 0:02:13.676 --> 0:02:18.036 Like if you look at it from a holistic transportation perspective, 0:02:19.756 --> 0:02:22.796 like people are not going to stop ordering things, Like 0:02:22.876 --> 0:02:26.396 that's not like it's in fact the opposite. People are 0:02:26.516 --> 0:02:30.196 ordering more stuff every day. And it just does not 0:02:30.276 --> 0:02:34.836 make sense that we are moving around like burritos and 0:02:34.836 --> 0:02:37.356 cups of coffee in cars, Like it just does not 0:02:37.396 --> 0:02:37.916 make sense. 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:41.356 To what extent are people ordering coffee delivered by somebody 0:02:41.356 --> 0:02:42.516 in a car? Is that a thing? 0:02:42.676 --> 0:02:44.756 And I just don't know it. It is a thing. 0:02:45.036 --> 0:02:47.156 It is a thing like you can go sort of 0:02:47.156 --> 0:02:49.996 look up. There's been a myriad of different studies about 0:02:50.036 --> 0:02:52.916 sort of what actual sort of like dipler use cases are, 0:02:52.916 --> 0:02:55.796 and it's a lot of small items. I can I 0:02:55.836 --> 0:02:57.996 can talk about a bunch of aviation math, but I 0:02:57.996 --> 0:03:01.396 think the simplest way to look at it is we 0:03:01.516 --> 0:03:04.196 are designing systems like to be able to fly in 0:03:04.356 --> 0:03:07.236 the national airspace. This is the same for everybody who's 0:03:07.276 --> 0:03:10.596 sort of in here to be building systems that are 0:03:10.716 --> 0:03:14.396 like sort of equivalent level of safety to like airliners. 0:03:14.716 --> 0:03:19.796 So if you take that and you abstract it down 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:24.436 to things that people can sort of internalize in terms 0:03:24.436 --> 0:03:28.556 of sort of risk, it is safer to fly the 0:03:28.916 --> 0:03:32.916 package via drone than it is to walk the package 0:03:33.556 --> 0:03:36.276 in your hand down the sidewalk. 0:03:36.276 --> 0:03:39.596 That's good, that's compelling, that's fun. Non intuitive, it's very 0:03:39.636 --> 0:03:42.196 non intuitive. I thought you were gonna say safer than 0:03:42.236 --> 0:03:43.716 to drive, and I'd be like, sure. 0:03:43.476 --> 0:03:47.076 Everything everything, but like safer than to hand carry it. 0:03:47.836 --> 0:03:50.076 The risk of hand caring is getting hit by a car. 0:03:50.156 --> 0:03:54.596 Yes, that's it's usually serve pedestrian road risk. And so 0:03:54.716 --> 0:03:57.996 you have this form of transportation which is possible and 0:03:58.116 --> 0:04:02.596 real and financially viable. That is many orders of magnitude 0:04:03.076 --> 0:04:06.916 safer than the incumbent. If you look at on every 0:04:07.116 --> 0:04:10.716 metric from safety to emissions, sort of impact on infrastructure, 0:04:11.036 --> 0:04:13.916 It's like, it is silly that we are moving around 0:04:13.916 --> 0:04:16.156 these boxes and the way we do today. This is 0:04:16.196 --> 0:04:17.716 a fundamentally better way to do it. 0:04:18.116 --> 0:04:20.396 So if I want to order something, I live near 0:04:20.516 --> 0:04:24.276 Walmart in Dallas and I want to order something from you, Like, 0:04:24.836 --> 0:04:25.716 how does that part work? 0:04:25.836 --> 0:04:31.076 So basically like we built a pretty traditional looking marketplace 0:04:31.116 --> 0:04:33.796 where the order flow is very traditional until you get 0:04:33.836 --> 0:04:36.636 to the part at the end, which is the drone part. 0:04:37.436 --> 0:04:39.276 So I use your app. I don't use like the 0:04:39.316 --> 0:04:39.956 Walmart app. 0:04:39.996 --> 0:04:42.356 So it depends on which region you're in. So in 0:04:42.356 --> 0:04:45.276 Australia we're integrated into the door Dash app, So use 0:04:45.716 --> 0:04:47.476 the front end of door Dash. In the US right 0:04:47.516 --> 0:04:50.796 now we're integrate. We're using our own app. Okay, So 0:04:51.276 --> 0:04:54.996 you say what you want ordered, and then before you 0:04:54.996 --> 0:04:56.916 even get to that step, the back end will say 0:04:57.236 --> 0:05:01.196 is your address deliverable? Right? Like it is the place 0:05:01.196 --> 0:05:02.956 that you are, a place that the plane can get 0:05:02.956 --> 0:05:04.436 to just to be. 0:05:04.436 --> 0:05:07.556 Clear that is you checking it out. You're using basically 0:05:07.636 --> 0:05:10.876 satellite data to say does this address work? Or that's 0:05:10.916 --> 0:05:12.836 you asking music. No, that's you just checking. 0:05:12.956 --> 0:05:15.396 So it's just basic. And some of it is even 0:05:15.436 --> 0:05:19.396 like like if there's a big hill that the plane 0:05:19.436 --> 0:05:22.676 has to spend more energy climbing over, like you might 0:05:22.716 --> 0:05:26.076 be within the radius, but like your particular house like 0:05:26.196 --> 0:05:29.516 may be undeliverable, or you might be slightly outside of 0:05:29.516 --> 0:05:32.356 the radius because there's no there's no power lines or 0:05:32.756 --> 0:05:34.676 hills to get there, so the plane go slightly farther. 0:05:34.756 --> 0:05:37.876 So everybody thinks about a delivery area as a circle, 0:05:37.916 --> 0:05:40.796 but it's really like a weird amiba. 0:05:41.516 --> 0:05:43.716 With lots of variables affecting where you can go. 0:05:43.796 --> 0:05:45.796 Yeah, and so there's a there's a sort of there's 0:05:45.796 --> 0:05:49.356 an address checker that'll run that like just GPS coordinate 0:05:49.436 --> 0:05:51.916 through a terrain database to be like can the plane 0:05:51.956 --> 0:05:55.996 get there? And then once you get to check out, 0:05:56.116 --> 0:06:00.356 you'll be presented with either one delivery zone of like okay, 0:06:00.356 --> 0:06:02.676 this is the place on your property where the box 0:06:02.716 --> 0:06:04.716 can be dropped off, or a choice like if there's 0:06:04.796 --> 0:06:07.316 multiple spots, it'll be like okay, which one of these three, 0:06:07.436 --> 0:06:08.636 do you want it in the left side of your 0:06:08.676 --> 0:06:12.316 yards sell the ardor in the backyard the personal pick that. 0:06:12.836 --> 0:06:16.476 Then the order will process, the plane will be dispatched, 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:18.956 and then it'll go to like a sort of countdown 0:06:18.996 --> 0:06:21.156 of like, Okay, the plane is on its way and 0:06:21.236 --> 0:06:24.036 it'll be here in three minutes and forty two seconds. 0:06:25.356 --> 0:06:29.156 So uh, and and what's the cost? 0:06:29.796 --> 0:06:33.036 It depends it's uh, it's sort of uh. That's that's 0:06:33.076 --> 0:06:34.356 that's more of a partner question. 0:06:35.316 --> 0:06:36.636 What's it what's it cost you? 0:06:37.676 --> 0:06:39.476 That's a that's an unanswerable question. 0:06:40.196 --> 0:06:41.916 A lot right, now, A lot right? 0:06:43.236 --> 0:06:46.316 No, I mean I think, uh, I think less than 0:06:47.116 --> 0:06:48.636 less than what folks would assume. 0:06:49.076 --> 0:06:51.636 I mean, the marginal cost is low, right, but it's 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:54.156 not that many deliveries against a large fixed costs. 0:06:54.196 --> 0:06:59.156 That's fair. But the marginal metrics are all sort of 0:06:59.676 --> 0:07:03.956 you know, favorable or in the direction of favorable. Yeah. So, 0:07:04.236 --> 0:07:07.876 like you know, people are well accustomed to getting stuff 0:07:07.916 --> 0:07:11.596 delivered today, and so like those costs are well understood, 0:07:11.596 --> 0:07:14.676 and the sort of costs per delivery that you know, 0:07:14.796 --> 0:07:17.596 either is either the partner is charging they're sort of 0:07:17.636 --> 0:07:20.396 all in line with that, depending on sort of which 0:07:20.396 --> 0:07:23.276 region you're in. But that's that's ultimately up to the partner. 0:07:23.676 --> 0:07:26.476 A few bucks, I mean, is is that what that means? 0:07:26.516 --> 0:07:29.476 Reason which you know it can't be more than that 0:07:29.516 --> 0:07:32.036 if people are out in coffee, right though, it is 0:07:32.076 --> 0:07:34.436 amazing how much people spend on, you know, on the 0:07:34.436 --> 0:07:37.396 marginal thing. So so that's how it works from the 0:07:37.396 --> 0:07:40.316 consumer's point of view, How does it work from you know, 0:07:40.396 --> 0:07:43.116 from the drones point of view. From from the company's point. 0:07:42.916 --> 0:07:45.876 Of view, what happens every every morning the service turns on, 0:07:46.636 --> 0:07:51.316 Folks can can order the stuff. Planes will get automatically 0:07:51.356 --> 0:07:53.876 tasked to go take off, pick up the box and go. 0:07:54.356 --> 0:07:56.436 How many deliveries what they do in a day? 0:07:58.676 --> 0:08:02.596 Like our high water mark right now is around for 0:08:02.756 --> 0:08:05.996 one store was about like one hundred and thirty deliveries, okay, 0:08:06.076 --> 0:08:08.356 So it's like these are like, these are real numbers. 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:11.716 This isn't like like, oh okay, like three people ordered 0:08:11.756 --> 0:08:16.036 stuff today, And I think that that's the that's I 0:08:16.036 --> 0:08:18.396 think sort of the phase that the industry is moving 0:08:18.396 --> 0:08:21.556 into now is it's it's these aren't like pilot programs 0:08:21.556 --> 0:08:24.436 and trials. These are like, okay, this store opened up 0:08:24.556 --> 0:08:27.236 offering this service and all the people in the area 0:08:27.316 --> 0:08:28.356 expect to get that service. 0:08:28.516 --> 0:08:30.716 How how big and how heavy can something be? 0:08:31.636 --> 0:08:34.756 So you know, we carry about a little bit over 0:08:34.796 --> 0:08:37.716 a kilo of of of good, so you know, two 0:08:37.756 --> 0:08:39.796 point two pounds of stuff, and in. 0:08:39.796 --> 0:08:42.756 Terms of volume, like. 0:08:41.876 --> 0:08:43.996 Like I think about like a shoe box, shoe box 0:08:44.156 --> 0:08:47.076 ish shoe box, okay, And a lot of it ends 0:08:47.156 --> 0:08:51.356 up being you know, prepared food, drinks like you know, 0:08:51.716 --> 0:08:56.476 soft drinks, you know, grocery items. And I think the 0:08:56.516 --> 0:08:59.276 one of the interesting observations I've always had on this is, uh, 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:03.436 back back to the sort of original like did we 0:09:03.476 --> 0:09:07.596 pick the right use case piece. We did a bunch 0:09:07.636 --> 0:09:10.836 of surveys sort of early on in the program of 0:09:11.036 --> 0:09:13.236 you know, what would you want delivered by drone if 0:09:13.276 --> 0:09:16.036 you if you had the option, and you know, there 0:09:16.076 --> 0:09:19.116 were dozens of different options sort of from food all 0:09:19.156 --> 0:09:22.476 the way to medicine, clothing, all these other things, and 0:09:22.836 --> 0:09:26.156 overwhelming the responses were always like, you know, drones should 0:09:26.196 --> 0:09:29.396 only be used for medical delivery, like they should only 0:09:29.436 --> 0:09:32.436 be used for medicine first aid bits like that. And 0:09:32.476 --> 0:09:36.836 then we went and offered the service in Australia. We 0:09:36.876 --> 0:09:38.716 had we had all those goods in there. We had 0:09:38.756 --> 0:09:41.636 like a lot of you know, like type of you know, 0:09:42.636 --> 0:09:48.516 over the counters, pharmacy items, sort of food, clothing, a 0:09:48.636 --> 0:09:51.916 bunch of different local restaurants, and like eighty percent of 0:09:51.916 --> 0:09:56.356 people ordered coffee. Like that was the overwhelming sort of 0:09:56.356 --> 0:09:58.836 thing because it's like that's something that people got every day, 0:09:58.876 --> 0:09:59.556 and it made. 0:09:59.356 --> 0:10:02.756 Sense stated preference versus revealed preference. I mean there is 0:10:03.036 --> 0:10:06.276 there is also the externality thing, right, Like it's one 0:10:06.276 --> 0:10:08.356 thing to say, if a drone's going to be flying 0:10:08.396 --> 0:10:11.236 over my house all the time, what do I want 0:10:11.276 --> 0:10:14.556 it to be delivering to everybody? Versus if it's coming 0:10:14.596 --> 0:10:16.596 to my house, what am I going to order today? 0:10:16.756 --> 0:10:18.676 Right? I mean that is another way to frame that's fair. 0:10:19.636 --> 0:10:22.516 So like what what are when you look back after 0:10:22.796 --> 0:10:24.796 ten years of working at it and like now you're 0:10:24.836 --> 0:10:28.236 actually doing it, Like, what are a few key things 0:10:28.276 --> 0:10:30.116 you figured out? 0:10:30.596 --> 0:10:35.596 I think one of the most defining moments is or 0:10:35.636 --> 0:10:40.636 maybe one of the most defining constraints. Most sort of 0:10:40.676 --> 0:10:45.076 disruptive or merging technologies sort of start off in a 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:47.636 permissive environment. So you know, one of the one of 0:10:47.636 --> 0:10:50.036 the things that I you know, one of the questions 0:10:50.036 --> 0:10:52.476 I've gotten asked many times sort of over the years, 0:10:52.516 --> 0:10:55.636 is well, why didn't you take the approach that like 0:10:55.716 --> 0:10:59.036 ride share took of. Okay, you know, offer the service 0:10:59.076 --> 0:11:01.636 in a big metro area, build up a big customer base, 0:11:02.276 --> 0:11:05.516 and then as the rules change, you have, like you 0:11:05.636 --> 0:11:08.276 have customers to say, Okay, this is a valuable thing. 0:11:08.516 --> 0:11:09.756 Why didn't you do it? 0:11:10.876 --> 0:11:13.436 Why not just go? Why not why not just go? 0:11:13.516 --> 0:11:14.916 Do it? And I think at the core of it, 0:11:14.836 --> 0:11:17.316 it's because aviation does not operate that way right, Like 0:11:17.436 --> 0:11:23.476 aviation is is is built around a preempted set of 0:11:23.556 --> 0:11:26.036 rules where the federal government controls the airspace, so it's 0:11:26.076 --> 0:11:29.956 not up to sort of anyone given municipality. And from 0:11:29.996 --> 0:11:35.236 that place, you know, how do you build consumer demand, 0:11:35.396 --> 0:11:38.076 How do you show that this thing works? How do 0:11:38.116 --> 0:11:41.436 you even go and do a trial where the existing 0:11:41.476 --> 0:11:44.476 regulatory frameworks are just say no, you can't fly at all. 0:11:44.756 --> 0:11:47.116 Yes to Australia. 0:11:47.316 --> 0:11:50.836 Yeah, So that's that's what That's what drove us to 0:11:50.836 --> 0:11:52.956 to start in Australia because they were one of the 0:11:52.956 --> 0:11:59.076 first markets where the National Aviation Regulator there they sort 0:11:59.116 --> 0:12:01.316 of quantify the risk of the operation. They look at 0:12:01.316 --> 0:12:03.396 the specifics the operation and they sort of approve on 0:12:03.436 --> 0:12:06.196 a case by case basis of all right, like this 0:12:06.356 --> 0:12:09.396 meets the same level of safety as an airliner, even 0:12:09.436 --> 0:12:11.116 though it's a very different use case. 0:12:12.076 --> 0:12:16.156 So just tell me like one thing that you know 0:12:16.556 --> 0:12:18.676 you had to figure out. Maybe you tried something and 0:12:18.756 --> 0:12:20.676 it didn't work, and you tried something else and it worked. 0:12:20.676 --> 0:12:22.396 You know what I mean? Is there just one kind 0:12:22.436 --> 0:12:24.636 of a microcosm example. 0:12:24.636 --> 0:12:27.756 If I could do two a lot? If that's yeah. 0:12:28.116 --> 0:12:32.636 So the first one is sort of how do you 0:12:32.676 --> 0:12:39.596 achieve aerospace reliability with like consumer electronics costs? So you know, 0:12:39.756 --> 0:12:42.876 we started from a place of how do you build 0:12:42.916 --> 0:12:45.716 these planes in a way where the unit economics will work? 0:12:45.836 --> 0:12:47.956 Not how do you build these planes and then try 0:12:47.996 --> 0:12:49.756 to figure out how to make the unit economics work? 0:12:49.836 --> 0:12:50.076 Right? 0:12:50.356 --> 0:12:51.356 So what is I mean? 0:12:51.396 --> 0:12:53.476 Obviously the cost of one is going to be a 0:12:53.516 --> 0:12:56.556 function partly or largely of scale. But since you brought 0:12:56.596 --> 0:12:58.876 it up, like, what has one of them got a 0:12:58.956 --> 0:12:59.996 cost for it to work for you? 0:13:00.876 --> 0:13:03.956 I mean it has to look like cell phones basically. 0:13:04.116 --> 0:13:07.076 And I think that the interesting one that the sort 0:13:07.116 --> 0:13:10.556 of specific point here is is if you looked at 0:13:10.676 --> 0:13:15.116 just the reliability case Okay, so how many propulsion system 0:13:15.196 --> 0:13:16.956 elements do you need in order to be able to 0:13:16.956 --> 0:13:21.716 make the airplane sort of close all the reliability numbers. 0:13:21.436 --> 0:13:27.076 That requires eight motors in our use case, so you know, 0:13:27.116 --> 0:13:28.916 you need eight hover motors so that you can have 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:30.796 any one of them fail at any given time and 0:13:30.836 --> 0:13:35.196 the airplane can still sort of have controlled flight. In 0:13:35.316 --> 0:13:40.076 our cost trades, it ended up being that if you 0:13:40.196 --> 0:13:42.796 move to twelve motors instead of eight motors, so the 0:13:43.476 --> 0:13:46.636 reliability numbers close at eight. But if you went to twelve, 0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:50.556 you got to use a much smaller motor that didn't 0:13:50.596 --> 0:13:53.356 need a carbon fiber propeller. You could use a plastic propeller. 0:13:53.676 --> 0:13:56.636 And there was a huge change in the cost of 0:13:57.076 --> 0:14:01.396 the total propulsion system by increasing the number of motors, 0:14:01.476 --> 0:14:03.396 which is not a thing that you would on the 0:14:03.436 --> 0:14:08.436 surface look at and be like, okay, this is intuitively obvious. 0:14:08.596 --> 0:14:13.916 So you're using twelve cheaper motors, so more smaller. It's 0:14:14.196 --> 0:14:18.716 more smaller motors rather than fewer larger motors. And I 0:14:18.716 --> 0:14:21.556 mean presumably you could keep going that way. You could 0:14:21.556 --> 0:14:24.316 have twenty tiny motors. I mean, you find the optimum. 0:14:25.156 --> 0:14:30.716 What settled on twelve was really driven by noise. So 0:14:30.796 --> 0:14:33.116 like as you get the burders smaller, they have the 0:14:33.356 --> 0:14:36.276 you know, the frequencies go higher, they spin faster, that 0:14:36.396 --> 0:14:40.556 discon goes up all these different effects. And so moving 0:14:40.556 --> 0:14:44.876 to twelve let you get the sort of cost benefits 0:14:44.876 --> 0:14:47.316 by going small motors. But you didn't sort of start 0:14:47.316 --> 0:14:51.436 climbing up that that noise curve by having like you know, 0:14:52.236 --> 0:14:56.716 like one hundred little half inch motors hu and even 0:14:56.796 --> 0:14:59.716 that there isn't an off the shelf propeller solution that 0:15:00.196 --> 0:15:01.036 sounds pleasant. 0:15:02.076 --> 0:15:05.556 Yeah, So that the sound, the sound is a big one, right, 0:15:05.756 --> 0:15:08.796 Like there was a good Wall Street Journal story I thought, 0:15:09.356 --> 0:15:12.276 uh from Australia where you were doing a lot of 0:15:12.316 --> 0:15:16.956 the early work, and the headline was delivery drones, cheer shoppers, 0:15:17.316 --> 0:15:21.436 annoy neighbors, scare dogs. Tell me about that piece of it. 0:15:21.476 --> 0:15:22.356 Tell me about the noise. 0:15:22.676 --> 0:15:24.596 So that's a that's a it's a thing you have 0:15:24.676 --> 0:15:27.676 to be conscious of. So, you know, we did a 0:15:27.716 --> 0:15:31.756 bunch of work early on in the development of this 0:15:31.836 --> 0:15:34.036 aircraft around sort of how do we how do we 0:15:34.116 --> 0:15:36.796 shape the tone of the noises being generated. So it's 0:15:36.836 --> 0:15:38.876 sort of less of like one big peak and sort 0:15:38.876 --> 0:15:41.716 of more broad spectrum, how do we reduce the noise 0:15:41.716 --> 0:15:44.316 of it? Like, if you look closely at our propellers, 0:15:44.396 --> 0:15:48.036 they're they're like asymmetrics. So there's one long set of 0:15:48.036 --> 0:15:50.036 blades and one short set of blades, and that creates 0:15:50.116 --> 0:15:53.356 like two tip forto sees that destructively interfere and like 0:15:53.356 --> 0:15:54.956 spread out noise. So all these things. So we did 0:15:55.036 --> 0:15:58.756 all this work on on the hover propulsion system, and 0:15:59.116 --> 0:16:04.156 the vast majority of of sort of noise feedback from 0:16:04.156 --> 0:16:07.356 the communities and mind you, like, if you compare this 0:16:07.476 --> 0:16:10.756 to the noise feedback you get about an actual airport 0:16:10.996 --> 0:16:15.116 or you know, construction project is still like far less 0:16:15.116 --> 0:16:19.596 than that. But it was all overflight, so it was 0:16:19.796 --> 0:16:22.276 like people weren't complaining about the airplanes hovering. They were 0:16:22.276 --> 0:16:27.676 complaining about them flying over overhead. And if you you 0:16:27.756 --> 0:16:30.636 look at the fact that the person that ordered the goods, 0:16:31.356 --> 0:16:33.596 like the plane is coming, then they asked for it, right, 0:16:33.636 --> 0:16:36.676 Like they're like they're like, I want the service. Their 0:16:36.716 --> 0:16:40.996 neighbors are probably also ordering things. But the thousand homes 0:16:41.036 --> 0:16:43.636 that you flew over to get to that spot, like 0:16:43.716 --> 0:16:45.676 may not be participating in the service. 0:16:45.796 --> 0:16:49.116 It's a negative externality, right, you're imposing a cost on 0:16:49.156 --> 0:16:50.956 someone who's not a party to the transaction. 0:16:51.436 --> 0:16:54.996 So so that was that was a very interesting learning 0:16:55.076 --> 0:16:57.156 sort of early on in our that we only would 0:16:57.196 --> 0:16:59.396 have learned by actually operating the service. 0:16:59.676 --> 0:17:01.796 Huh, it's that it's not it's not the next door 0:17:01.796 --> 0:17:04.356 neighbor who hates it. It's all the people between the 0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:05.596 store and the customer. 0:17:06.156 --> 0:17:09.356 And in that sense, it was like, okay, well, well, 0:17:09.636 --> 0:17:11.756 like we thought we needed to put all this development 0:17:11.756 --> 0:17:13.916 work in the hover propulsion system, but it's actually the 0:17:13.996 --> 0:17:16.116 crew system that they need to work. 0:17:16.876 --> 0:17:19.396 People never get mad about what you think they're going 0:17:19.396 --> 0:17:20.836 to get mad about, right again, I. 0:17:20.796 --> 0:17:23.276 Think that that's the at the core of it, Like 0:17:23.556 --> 0:17:26.676 the dron delivery space is like so full of has 0:17:26.716 --> 0:17:29.796 been so full of what ifs for so long, and 0:17:30.796 --> 0:17:33.076 in the absence of regulatory frameworks that let you go 0:17:33.116 --> 0:17:37.356 and operate like you can't move out these things that 0:17:37.436 --> 0:17:41.236 it it oftentimes like there's a lot of misconceptions about 0:17:41.316 --> 0:17:44.436 either noise or sort of what the use cases will 0:17:44.436 --> 0:17:46.316 be or what people want to order, and then when 0:17:46.316 --> 0:17:48.636 you go and offer the service, sort of the cure 0:17:48.676 --> 0:17:51.956 for the what ifs is the actuality of an operating. 0:17:52.236 --> 0:17:55.316 So okay, so you realize that the noise complaints aren't 0:17:55.316 --> 0:17:58.436 the noise complaints you're expecting. You had mitigated the one, 0:17:58.556 --> 0:18:00.916 the hovering, but not the other, the flying over. So 0:18:01.036 --> 0:18:04.796 now you have this new challenge, right that people getting 0:18:04.836 --> 0:18:06.876 mad if a drones are flying over their house all 0:18:06.916 --> 0:18:07.996 day long? What do you do about that? 0:18:08.876 --> 0:18:10.876 So we we basically did the same thing we did 0:18:10.916 --> 0:18:13.316 on the other propulsion side, So we used the same 0:18:13.356 --> 0:18:18.156 technology as to redesign the props. We sort of set 0:18:18.196 --> 0:18:22.076 the design target so that like basically the aircraft that 0:18:22.156 --> 0:18:25.036 the cruise altitude would be inaudible to a to an 0:18:25.036 --> 0:18:28.436 observer on the ground. But this is like everything in 0:18:28.476 --> 0:18:32.556 aerospace is a trade and so you know, for us, 0:18:32.596 --> 0:18:35.636 it was like we want to we want to address 0:18:35.956 --> 0:18:38.876 sort of any of the noise concerns. Uh, And so 0:18:39.276 --> 0:18:42.916 we're willing to go and do that development time and 0:18:43.036 --> 0:18:46.636 exercise and costs, redo the propulsions, and then redo the 0:18:46.676 --> 0:18:51.396 plane to to be able to use it. So that 0:18:51.396 --> 0:18:54.676 that's uh, that was that was one interesting one and 0:18:54.676 --> 0:18:57.356 the other one is just like you know, how you 0:18:57.396 --> 0:19:01.396 get the box to the people. So early on in 0:19:01.396 --> 0:19:05.316 the program, uh, we had basically you know, you have 0:19:05.396 --> 0:19:08.116 the little tope that hangs below the plane, and then 0:19:08.316 --> 0:19:10.676 it was connected to playing with a tether, and that 0:19:10.836 --> 0:19:13.636 tether went around a school and just sort of like 0:19:14.236 --> 0:19:17.156 you'd open up a latch and it would descend and 0:19:17.276 --> 0:19:19.756 you'd leave behind the string. So it was like the 0:19:19.796 --> 0:19:22.796 way of letting go the box was just well, there's 0:19:22.836 --> 0:19:26.756 only so much string on the on the on the aircraft. 0:19:26.596 --> 0:19:28.716 So so the customer would get a box with a 0:19:28.756 --> 0:19:29.276 long string. 0:19:30.116 --> 0:19:33.876 Not a great user experience, but very simple, like super simple. 0:19:34.516 --> 0:19:38.956 And uh, we spent a huge amount of time around 0:19:39.156 --> 0:19:43.796 how do you drop off the box without a bunch 0:19:43.836 --> 0:19:47.236 of mechanical complexity? So how do you how do you 0:19:47.316 --> 0:19:50.276 lower down the box, make sure that it lets go 0:19:50.316 --> 0:19:53.036 of the box one hundred percent of the time. Make 0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:56.156 sure that that little hook at the bottom doesn't get 0:19:56.156 --> 0:19:59.276 snagged on anything else as it's getting pulled back up. Uh. 0:19:59.636 --> 0:20:03.836 Making sure that that whole system could operate reliably, you know, 0:20:03.956 --> 0:20:08.076 thousands of times with dirt and leaves and stuff. Uh. 0:20:08.116 --> 0:20:11.836 And so like this is little, that little yellow bit 0:20:11.876 --> 0:20:13.556 of plastic. So you're just. 0:20:13.476 --> 0:20:15.396 Talking about the hook at the end of the line 0:20:15.476 --> 0:20:18.716 that holds the box. Like that is like a nightmare 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:19.596 to get. 0:20:19.596 --> 0:20:21.476 Just right, nightmare to get just right. And it is 0:20:21.556 --> 0:20:25.556 probably one of the most iterated components on the whole aircraft. 0:20:27.436 --> 0:20:30.356 Still to come on the show. Why despite all that 0:20:30.436 --> 0:20:34.316 work on the hook and on everything else, drone delivery 0:20:34.436 --> 0:20:38.596 may never really take off. Also, what the world will 0:20:38.636 --> 0:20:53.556 look like if drone delivery does work? So what like 0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:55.676 what's the frontier for you? Like, what are you trying 0:20:55.716 --> 0:20:58.876 to figure out that you haven't figured out yet? 0:20:59.156 --> 0:21:04.556 Yeah, I think that for us right now. A couple 0:21:04.596 --> 0:21:06.996 of years ago in Australia when we were sort of 0:21:07.076 --> 0:21:12.236 ramping up volumes there, we demonstrated what scale looked like 0:21:12.436 --> 0:21:16.596 for a sort of confined geographic area. So, you know, 0:21:16.676 --> 0:21:19.676 one of the common I think misconceptions about drones is, 0:21:19.716 --> 0:21:21.516 you know, folks like, well, when drone delivery is real, 0:21:21.556 --> 0:21:23.116 I'll look up at the sky and all I see 0:21:23.116 --> 0:21:25.476 is drones. And I was like, well, no, when you 0:21:25.516 --> 0:21:27.836 when you actually do it, when you actually offer sort 0:21:27.836 --> 0:21:29.756 of the scaled out service to like a you know, 0:21:29.796 --> 0:21:34.316 one hundred square kilometer piece of the Earth, even when 0:21:34.316 --> 0:21:38.876 there's even then when there's a thousand deliveries happening in 0:21:38.876 --> 0:21:41.076 one day, and that that little space you can look 0:21:41.156 --> 0:21:44.156 up and not see any planes for a while. And 0:21:44.276 --> 0:21:46.676 so for the last couple of years that's what we 0:21:46.676 --> 0:21:49.716