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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and a United States court has reinstated

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Speaker 1: Anti Trust Commissioner Rebecca Slaughter. We have such a great

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Speaker 1: show for you today. John Fugel Sang stops by to

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Speaker 1: talk to us about his new book, Separation of Church

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Speaker 1: and Hate, A sane person's guide to taking back the

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Speaker 1: Bible from fundamentalists, fascists, and flock fleecing frauds. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Rolling Stone's own Nicki McCann Ramirez about Trump's

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Speaker 1: use of the military as a force.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the news of the day.

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Speaker 3: Somali.

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Speaker 4: Last night, I got out of a really fun concert

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Speaker 4: and I see text that say, are we going to

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Speaker 4: war with Venezuela?

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Speaker 3: What's with the strike? What are you seeing?

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Speaker 1: I don't understand what the plan here is, but it

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Speaker 1: seems as if Trump world wants to go to war

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Speaker 1: with Venezuela.

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Speaker 5: Why.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Cartels distraction, Trump saw a movie about it.

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Speaker 4: We do have to make sure no one notices that

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Speaker 4: people are talking about Epstein again.

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Speaker 1: Epstein files axios is Marco Pudo reports that Maduro lives

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Speaker 1: under the US government's fifty million dollar bounty. Trump has

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Speaker 1: a kinetic strike in Steid, a deadly kinetic strike targeted

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, narco terrorists whatever.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: Trump has clearly seen something on television. This is all distraction.

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Speaker 1: Just ignore it. I mean, it's bad because it's bad,

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Speaker 1: because it's insane. But this is all distraction, y yep.

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Speaker 4: And we'll see what's to come, since they say there's

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Speaker 4: a lot more of it to come.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they want to go to war with drug

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Speaker 1: they've sort of figured out they've now are underwater on

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Speaker 1: almost everything, right, They're underwater on immigration, they're underwater on

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Speaker 1: the economy. So they're trying to find things that they

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Speaker 1: are not underwater on. And they've decided that crime and

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Speaker 1: drugs are the two things that.

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Speaker 2: Are not underwater on.

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Speaker 1: So they're deciding that they're going to go to war

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Speaker 1: with these drug cartels. And actually Trump wanted to do

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Speaker 1: this in his first term, but there were some smart

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Speaker 1: people around him who didn't let him. And since, if

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Speaker 1: you know, since this is now his second term, he's

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Speaker 1: going to do.

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Speaker 2: All of that stuff. So there we are.

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Speaker 4: So in the last episode, we talked about that RFK juniors,

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Speaker 4: HHS and CDC is in serious turmoil, and we can

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Speaker 4: now see that evidenced in that one thousand HHS workers

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Speaker 4: demand him to resign. And I wish the Democratic leadership

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Speaker 4: had this much gumption.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So why hakem does not say that RFK needs

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Speaker 1: to resign tomorrow is baffling to me. I don't get it.

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Speaker 1: I want to call them up and yell at them.

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Speaker 1: It's just I actually probably will, but it's just baffling

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Speaker 1: to me. Obviously, RFK needs to resign. Obviously, Obviously anyone

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Speaker 1: with a brain Bernie wrote a piece in New York

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Speaker 1: Times about this, obviously has got to resign. He's a

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Speaker 1: He is a quack. He's wounding all of these medical trials,

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Speaker 1: all of this medical research. As a country, all of

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Speaker 1: the progress that we have somehow made, is being undermined

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Speaker 1: by a crack who swims in sewage in Rock Creek Park.

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Speaker 4: He thinks that you called him a crack because instead

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Speaker 4: of a cuck, but the.

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Speaker 3: Shoe shoe kind of fits.

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Speaker 2: He's a crack who swims in Rock Creek Park in jeans,

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Speaker 2: and I won't take it back.

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Speaker 4: So, speaking of the fuckery that he's unleashed because he's

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Speaker 4: weak in the CDC so much.

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Speaker 3: There's now this thing called the West Coast Health Alliance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so West Coast Health Alliance is California, Oregon, and

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Speaker 1: Washington State. And here's what's going to happen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: be a psychic here. You You have said, by the way,

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Speaker 1: that that asking people to predict the future.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the brilliant things Jesse has said

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: It says, never in an interview ask people to predict

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Speaker 1: the future, because it's not good podcasting. And also nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: But I'm going to do break your rule and predict

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Speaker 1: the future. And here's what I'm going to tell you.

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Speaker 1: If states get nothing from the federal government, they won't

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Speaker 1: want to engage with it. So if you are a

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Speaker 1: state like California or New York or Massachusetts where you

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Speaker 1: pay a ton of money to the federal government and

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Speaker 1: you have to beg for FEMA, here's what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Sooner or later, you're gonna say, you, maybe we won't

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Speaker 1: pay all that money to the federal government. And I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. I don't think Trump understands that these services

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Speaker 1: have a price tag and if you're not getting it,

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Speaker 1: then why do it? Then why pay it? And this

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Speaker 1: is the first step of that. Oregon, California, Washington. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I don't want to freak anyone out here,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of do. This is what secession looks like. California, Oregon,

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Speaker 1: and Washington start doing things. New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont,

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire, and Meane start doing things. You start seeing

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Speaker 1: states of people who are like minded. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: you end up with a country where Alabama and Mississippi

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Speaker 1: and look, there are a lot of people who live

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Speaker 1: in Alabama and Mississippi who did not vote for this,

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Speaker 1: who do not vote at all, who are disenfranchised, and

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Speaker 1: who will suffer. But like, you can see a world

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Speaker 1: where those red states end up alone. And we're not

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Speaker 1: so far from that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I see. I don't think this is predicting the future.

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Speaker 4: I think this is analyzing what's already starting to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not there yet, but I could see it happening.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it will make sense that when you pull federal

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Speaker 4: funding from things, that states are going to have to

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Speaker 4: figure out how they maneuver their budgets into it, and

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Speaker 4: one of the easy levers seems to be not paying

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Speaker 4: into the federal government what they don't have to, especially

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Speaker 4: since the Blue states on the Red states mostly so

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Speaker 4: Malli Big big news. The Republicans are basically saying you're

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Speaker 4: going to be outcasts from the party if you vote

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Speaker 4: to release all of the Epstein files. There's big press

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Speaker 4: conferences with Epstein victims and some Republicans.

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Speaker 1: You're just it is a fancy way to say that

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Speaker 1: Jesse and I have something terrible to say right now,

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Speaker 1: and we want you to prepare yourselves as listeners and

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Speaker 1: not think that we are the worst people in the world.

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Speaker 1: But I listened to that whole press conference an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half, and I'm going to say something terrible,

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Speaker 1: and probably I will rue the day I said this.

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Speaker 1: But Marjorie Taylor Green made a lot of sense in

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Speaker 1: that press conference, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, whether it was her usual performative bullshit or not.

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Speaker 4: Nancy Mace walked out seemingly distraught of the Epstein cover

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Speaker 4: up meeting for the GOP.

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Speaker 3: I mean, down is up today.

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Speaker 1: I probably am going to regret saying anything nice about

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Tellygreen, But every word she said that I heard

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Speaker 1: in that press conference sounded pretty sane.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it means.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if maybe I have a brain worm,

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Speaker 1: but she basically was like, you know you, if these

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Speaker 1: women are afraid to say the names, I will say

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Speaker 1: them on the house floor.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I mean, again, I am no fan of Marjorie Taylor Green,

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Speaker 1: but it got me thinking about this idea of what

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Speaker 1: it means to have privilege and to use it to

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Speaker 1: help people. Because Marjorie Taylor Green has done a lot

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Speaker 1: of crazy shit, and really she's definitely bordering on anti

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Speaker 1: Semitism for her anti Israel stuff is not she's not

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Speaker 1: getting there the way we are.

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Speaker 3: Do you think she stepped over the border a few

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Speaker 3: times personally?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, she's not getting to like her qualms

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Speaker 1: about Israel the way we are. But that said, I

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Speaker 1: do think that she did do this thing, which is

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Speaker 1: something that I think. She came from a wealthy family

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Speaker 1: and she has a lot of privilege, and so one

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Speaker 1: of the things you see here is that she's actually

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Speaker 1: using her privilege for the Epstein client. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: during that they're hearing these women said they don't want

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Speaker 1: to say the names because they don't want to get sued.

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Speaker 1: And Marjorie Taylor Green says, you know what, just give

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Speaker 1: me the list and I will go on the house

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Speaker 1: floor and say every name. And it's funny because it's

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Speaker 1: like it gives me. It makes me think of like

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Speaker 1: that's something I might do as someone who also grew

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Speaker 1: up with a lot of privilege, and it's something that

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Speaker 1: we all need to do. If we see ice trying

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Speaker 1: to pick up people in our neighborhood, we have this

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Speaker 1: opportunity because we have privilege to stand up for people,

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Speaker 1: to videotape these ICE people to make sure that we

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Speaker 1: stand up for our neighbors. That is absolutely the same

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Speaker 1: thing that we need to be doing.

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Speaker 4: Agreed. But we need to backtrack to one thing. This

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Speaker 4: brain worm you might have. Have you eaten any roadkill

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Speaker 4: from the side of the road recently?

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Speaker 3: Wait?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. John Fugel Sang is a host on Serious XM

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Speaker 1: and the author of Separation of Church and Hate, A

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Speaker 1: Sane Person's Guide to taking back the Bible from fundamentalists, fascists,

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Speaker 1: and flock fleecing frauds.

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Speaker 2: John fugel Sang talk to me about this book.

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Speaker 6: Thank you for having me. My book is called Separation

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Speaker 6: of Church and Hate, A sane Person's Guide to taking

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Speaker 6: back the Bible from fundamentalists, fascists, and flock fleecing frauds.

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Speaker 6: I am the child of an ex nun and an

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Speaker 6: ex Franciscan brother, and I wrote this book for anybody

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Speaker 6: of any religion, or any atheist or any agnostic, or

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Speaker 6: anybody who's ever going to have to deal with a

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Speaker 6: right wing Christian, nationalist or fundamentalist extremist in their family

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Speaker 6: and their job and their school, in their social media feed,

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Speaker 6: or in their government. And it's a guide to what

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Speaker 6: Christianity started out trying to be, what it turned into,

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Speaker 6: why it's still worth saving, and why if you're arguing

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Speaker 6: with a right wing Christian, even if you're an atheist,

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Speaker 6: chances are on most of the issues that divide us,

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Speaker 6: Jesus is on your side. The right wing doesn't know

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Speaker 6: the Bible, they don't read it, and they're counting on

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Speaker 6: you not reading it. So it's a helpful guide to

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Speaker 6: really kind of thump Bible thumpers with the Bible because

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Speaker 6: they're full of crap and all you need is a

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Speaker 6: few facts.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things I have been really impressed

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Speaker 1: by whenever we talk, is that you really you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, but you really know a lot

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Speaker 1: about the Bible, and I want and you you know

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Speaker 1: and what's in it, and that is not most people don't,

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Speaker 1: even people who pretend to don't. I don't pretend to,

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't matter. But tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your upbringing and clearly there was some Bible study

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Speaker 1: going on there.

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Speaker 6: Oh well a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: My mother grew up in the segregated South, and she

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Speaker 6: entered the Convents right out of high school. They put

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Speaker 6: her through nursing school and then sent her off to Malawi, Africa,

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Speaker 6: to work first with lepers and then in a hospital

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Speaker 6: in the jungle. But before they sent her to Africa,

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Speaker 6: they briefly assigned her to Holy Family Hospital in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 6: New York. My father was a Franciscan brother. He entered

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Speaker 6: the Brothers right out of high school. He wore the

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Speaker 6: brown robes and the rope belt and talked history to

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Speaker 6: Catholic boys, and I like to say he dressed like

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Speaker 6: the Lost Jedi of Flatbush. My father, the Brother, met

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Speaker 6: my mother the sister when he entered the hospital with

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Speaker 6: tuberculosis fell madly in love with the nurse caring for

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Speaker 6: him with a Southern accent that he knew he could

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Speaker 6: never have and had promised his God he would never want.

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Speaker 6: They became best friends. He was pentals while she was

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Speaker 6: in Africa and would send her long, innocent letters about

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Speaker 6: what was going on with civil rights and Vietnam. Eventually

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Speaker 6: she left, he talked her into going on a date.

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Speaker 6: Two months later. They were married on a little southern

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Speaker 6: Army base, and they tried to raise us on the

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Speaker 6: isle of long to be progressive, free thinking Catholics. Which

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Speaker 6: is why I do stand up, because I can't afford

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Speaker 6: the therapy I need. Like millions, I was raised in

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Speaker 6: this Christianity that was supposed to be about what the

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Speaker 6: Jewish carpenter talked about, love and service to others, servant leadership,

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Speaker 6: turning the other cheek, and the other teachings of Jesus,

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Speaker 6: like welcome the stranger. Individuals and nations have to take

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Speaker 6: care of the poor. Individuals and nation have to take

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Speaker 6: care of the sick, and be kind to prisoners, don't

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Speaker 6: execute people, pay your damn taxes. A whole bunch of stuff.

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Speaker 6: You don't see the right wing fighting to have printed

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Speaker 6: on a classroom or a courtroom wall. And like millions,

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Speaker 6: I grew up to find that this religion of peace

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Speaker 6: and empathy was seemingly hijacked by a mean, little, overwhelmingly white,

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Speaker 6: tax free click that was seeking to push their right

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Speaker 6: wing version of the Bible into every level of our society.

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Speaker 6: But it was a very narrow version that has nothing

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Speaker 6: to do with the teachings of Jesus. And as I

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Speaker 6: got older, I realized, my God, some of the best

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Speaker 6: Christians I know were Jesus, and some of the most

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Speaker 6: godless Heathens I know are loud Christians. And I got

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Speaker 6: really tired say my parents' religion used for hate as

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Speaker 6: a cloaking device. It's always been a history of the religion,

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Speaker 6: and I can go back two thousand years. How it's

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Speaker 6: always been the toxic Christians versus the people who follow

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Speaker 6: Jesus and their allies. But for our generation, it was

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Speaker 6: Jerry Fallwell, it was Pat Robertson, it was Jimmy Swagger.

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Speaker 6: It was abortion. When abortion was made the law of

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Speaker 6: the land in seventy three, the most controversial thing was

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Speaker 6: how not controversial it was the evangelicals didn't care that

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Speaker 6: was a Catholic thing. Jerry Folwell never mentioned abortion in

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Speaker 6: a sermon until five years after Roe v.

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Speaker 1: Wade.

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Speaker 6: They hadn't realized they could weaponize it and market it

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Speaker 6: and get votes and money off of it. And now

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Speaker 6: for two generations, forty five years, we've seen in America

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Speaker 6: the systemic grooming of Christians to vote against everything Jesus

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Speaker 6: ever talked about, all to criminalize abortion, which Jesus never

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Speaker 6: talked about. It is the greatest racket in religion and

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Speaker 6: politics in our lifetime, and they pulled it off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's totally interesting, and I wonder if you talk

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Speaker 1: about why, you sort of what the moment was that

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Speaker 1: you think that Christianity kind of lost the thread.

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Speaker 6: I guess it would be probably when Saul became Paul

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Speaker 6: and his old friends were still killing all of Jesus's

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Speaker 6: Jewish friends, and Paul's version took over because all the

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Speaker 6: Apostles got bumped off. And then, but I mean, inn

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Speaker 6: in modern times, you know, I would It's always been there, right,

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Speaker 6: I mean, we had slavery which was propped up by Christianity,

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Speaker 6: and it was Jesus followers like Harriet Tubman and Frederick

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Speaker 6: Douglass and the Quakers who fought back slavery, I mean segregation.

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Speaker 6: One hundred years of apartheid was completely reinforced by Christianity,

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Speaker 6: and it was a Baptist preacher from Atlanta named King

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Speaker 6: and his many allies, not all of them were Christian,

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Speaker 6: many of whom were Jews and non believers, who pushed back.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we've seen how many of our peers have

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Speaker 6: talked their parents and grandparents out of so much homophobia

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Speaker 6: in the last twenty years, which really was a big

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Speaker 6: thing for me when I was in my early twenties.

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Speaker 6: I guess in my teens, I realized the death penalty

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Speaker 6: was bullshit and the death penalty was against everything Jesus

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Speaker 6: talked about. He literally overturns eye for an eye in

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Speaker 6: his first public gig. He commands you to forgive seven

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Speaker 6: times seven. He stops an execution and says only the

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Speaker 6: sinless can execute. I was eighteen, and I'm like, how

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Speaker 6: could you call yourself Christian? It get off on prisoners

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Speaker 6: being murdered by the government, But the gay issue was

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Speaker 6: really big for me. When I was old enough to

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Speaker 6: actually stop listening to priests and read the Bible and

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Speaker 6: realize that homophobia is an insult and a rejection of

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Speaker 6: everything the character of Jesus taught. Nobody follows Leviticus. They say,

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Speaker 6: shall not lie with a man like a man, that's

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Speaker 6: an abomination. Well, okay, but that's for the anything but

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Speaker 6: Jesus Christians. That's from the instructions God gave the Israelites

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Speaker 6: when they had gotten out of Egypt and were trying

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Speaker 6: to keep their numbers up in the desert for forty years.

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Speaker 6: God's like, no sex on your period, no incests, no

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Speaker 6: guys with guys. It's all about keep making babies. It's

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Speaker 6: not about be cruel to the gay kid or the

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Speaker 6: transcript class. Leviticus twenty ten commands us to stone adulterers

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Speaker 6: to death. I don't see too many Maga folks bringing

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Speaker 6: rocks to mar A Lago, so they can't really use it.

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Speaker 6: The character of Jesus commands them to treat gay people

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Speaker 6: the way they would treat him, and I go deep

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Speaker 6: in the book Molly about how Jesus I will argue

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Speaker 6: with pro gay He says in Matthew nineteen that gay

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Speaker 6: men are born that way, and the Roman centurion with

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Speaker 6: the sixth slave. When you look at the original Greek translation,

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Speaker 6: it wasn't a slave, it was his teen lover. They

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Speaker 6: weren't in Greek as pais beloved boy. When you look

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Speaker 6: at that story Ernest borgnine played in the movie, I

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Speaker 6: mean this occupying general, the Centurions are the ones who

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Speaker 6: killed Jesus says, please come to my house to heal

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Speaker 6: a common slave. When I was a kid, I was like,

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Speaker 6: why would a Roman general and the occupying four seek

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Speaker 6: out a local Jewish mystic faith healer to come to

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Speaker 6: his house and heal a common slave. When I got

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Speaker 6: older and I read, Oh, beloved boy, we know how

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Speaker 6: the Romans like to have fun and leave their wives

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Speaker 6: at home, it all made perfect sense. It shows why

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Speaker 6: the Apostles weren't really thrilled about all this, and it

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Speaker 6: shows again the whole thing about Jesus is you're not

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Speaker 6: allowed to ht anybody. You can't hate the leopard, the prostitute,

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Speaker 6: the despised farts like the Samaritans, not even the Romans

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Speaker 6: who are conquering us. You can't hate that. You can

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Speaker 6: resist it, but you can't hate him. And I don't

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Speaker 6: see any of this in modern American Christianity. On my

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Speaker 6: Serious X show every night, I have Maga friend's call,

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Speaker 6: and I always ask him, and you please tell me

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Speaker 6: one actual teaching of Jesus that Donald Trump, or the

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Speaker 6: Republican Party or the MAGA movement have fought for in

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Speaker 6: the last thirty years. And Molly, if you do this,

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Speaker 6: you'll find out how little these people know. This Bible

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Speaker 6: they wave around like a prop. The number one thing

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Speaker 6: they say is abortion. I point out, Bible's not against abortion.

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Speaker 6: In Exodus twenty one, God asserts a fetus's property and

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Speaker 6: a woman's life has more value. Then they'll say immigration.

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Speaker 6: I'm like, nope, God commands you to welcome the stranger.

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Speaker 6: Jesus says, we'll be judged by how we welcome the stranger.

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Speaker 6: These people are trying to use their version of the

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Speaker 6: Bible to completely rewire our government, and our economy and

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Speaker 6: our education system. And they haven't read the damn thing.

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Speaker 6: This as a guide for everybody to take their camouflage away.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk this through for a second. You do

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Speaker 1: this serious show, you talk to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It's three hours of live radio every fucking night. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of time. As someone who has done three

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Speaker 1: hour chunks of things, it takes forever. You have a

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Speaker 1: lot of callers too. You talk to a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: you talk to a lot of politicians, you go to

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Speaker 1: a lot of places. So I'm wondering what your take

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Speaker 1: is right now because you are sort of on the

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Speaker 1: ground in a way that maybe I'm not. So what

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Speaker 1: are you seeing? Are you seeing Trump regret?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: No, doubling down? I mean, what are you seeing? What

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Speaker 1: with the people who call in? What are you hearing?

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Speaker 6: The independents are having regret, The magas are it's a cult,

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Speaker 6: and they consume news that doesn't give them conflicting information.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I still ask these guys where was Barack

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Speaker 6: Obama born? And they don't know that Trump admitted in

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Speaker 6: September of twenty sixteen he was weren't here? They keep

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Speaker 6: them in a real bubble. We talked about this on

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Speaker 6: MSNBC the other night. One of the things that I've

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Speaker 6: begun thinking about and talking with conservatives and liberals about

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Speaker 6: on the air is the left keeps saying one of

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Speaker 6: the non millionaire is going to wake up? When's the

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Speaker 6: maga cult of these hard working men going to realize

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Speaker 6: that this guy's a fraud. I mean, in Germany they

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Speaker 6: had to see Berlin and rubble before they could accept

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Speaker 6: the furor had been a con man. But I've begun

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Speaker 6: to think it's we're looking at the wrong edge. It's

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Speaker 6: not about the working people. When are the oligarchs going

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Speaker 6: to be done with this guy? It's starting to see

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Speaker 6: like they are. They got their massive tax cut, they

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Speaker 6: got their deregulation, they can pollute all they want, they

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Speaker 6: got their crypto loophole. And look at how Murdoch is

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Speaker 6: cutting him loose. In the pages of the journal. He

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Speaker 6: publishes the Depstein birthday card. Trump sues him for twenty

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Speaker 6: two billion dollars and Murdoch laughs in his face and

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Speaker 6: publishes the next day that Pam Bondi said he was

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Speaker 6: in the Epstein files last May. I think the owners

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Speaker 6: of this country, our landlords, are done with this guy,

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Speaker 6: and it's it's like a Bond villain hitting a delete

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Speaker 6: asset button. They know that they can get the same

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Speaker 6: results with less embarrassment from JD. Vanser, one of the

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Speaker 6: Bush kids. So I'm actually looking at that angle for it.

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Speaker 6: But his health is poor. It has been poor all along.

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Speaker 6: What we're witnessing now is this really pathetic attempt at fascism.

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Speaker 6: That makes me so grateful that our fascists in this

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Speaker 6: century have been so shitty stupid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's scary, shady, it's scary, but

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Speaker 1: they're bad at it. I mean, I think that the

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Speaker 1: thing that has really connected, at least right now is

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Speaker 1: this incredible incompetence, just unbelievable, spectacular and competence.

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Speaker 6: And he hasn't got the popularity either. He's never cracked

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Speaker 6: fifty percent. All the media cheerleading about mandate, the majority

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Speaker 6: of people who showed up to vote three elections in

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Speaker 6: a row voted against him. And the folks who showed

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Speaker 6: up to vote in twenty two and eighteen with mister

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Speaker 6: Trump not on the ballot, those folks didn't show up

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Speaker 6: and they know what's happening, and that's where they're trying

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Speaker 6: to cheat. Fifteen months early in bloody Texas, they're trying

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Speaker 6: to sheat it just reeks of desperation. I mean, maybe

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Speaker 6: with the judge cutting down the tariffs, the irony of

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Speaker 6: that is that could say the GOP in the midterms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the registrict if something saves them,

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Speaker 1: it'll be the redistricting, which is.

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Speaker 2: It will be cheating, but yeah, it is. I don't

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Speaker 2: know that.

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Speaker 1: But I just wonder if they are going to be

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Speaker 1: able to even if, say the tariffs are knocked down

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Speaker 1: tomorrow the Supreme Courts is not constitutional, which is possible

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Speaker 1: because the tariff case is funded by the remaining Koch brothers.

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Speaker 1: So you could see a world where they are is

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Speaker 1: in the tank for that crew as they are for Trump.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think the prices go down, so I

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Speaker 1: don't know, so I think that will be a real problem.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: been so long that Trump has controlled the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: that they are now ideologically almost the complete opposite of

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Speaker 1: what they were correct twenty fifteen. I wonder what you say.

435
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: I think sort of how you think like what happens

436
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: after Trump?

437
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it goes back to something like it

438
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 6: was before, but with a meaner, more divided party because

439
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 6: they're never going to have a guy with the riz

440
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 6: that Donald Trump had. They don't have anybody, anybody in

441
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 6: that party right now who has the charisma to get

442
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 6: folks who don't vote to show up to vote. There's

443
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 6: people who came down from the mountains in from the

444
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 6: woods and out from the swamps because mister Trump from

445
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 6: the TV was on the ballot.

446
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 2: JD.

447
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 6: Evans does not have that mojo, and my god, Pritzker

448
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 6: was I mean, Andy Basheer would body slam Jdvans. He's

449
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 6: going to be very, very fun, and mag's going to

450
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 6: hate him. The tech bros love him, but they'll turn

451
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 6: on him as well. So I don't know what's going

452
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 6: to happen with these Republicans. I mean, twenty years ago,

453
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 6: they hated us for warning them about Bush and Cheney.

454
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 6: Twenty years ago, they hated us for saying, hey, these

455
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 6: economic plans are really bad and the wars really stupid.

456
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 6: And then we were proven right about everything, and they

457
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 6: hated us even more. But the worst part of it

458
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 6: was Bush and Cheney went back to Texas to be

459
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 6: the national ghouls, and all their enforcers and winged monkeys

460
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 6: and henchmen stayed in the Congress. I mean, the people

461
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 6: who enabled trump Ism are going to still have jobs

462
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 6: when Trump is long gone. But you know, when we

463
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 6: were kids, people still defended Nixon. Remember their old guys

464
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 6: would be like, ah, Nixon wasn't bad, he just got caught. Yeah,

465
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 6: and you know, twenty years ago they were fiercely defending

466
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 6: Bush chaning they don't defend bush Cheney anymore. No nobody

467
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 6: defends Nixon anymore. In ten years, you'll see magas denying

468
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 6: they ever voted for this guy after sixteen.

469
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: But part of why.

470
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: They don't defend bush Cheney is because Donald Trump ran

471
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: against them.

472
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 6: He gave him permission structure. Yes, he told them everything

473
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 6: we had told them, but when he said it, they

474
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 6: accepted it and believed it, and then they ated Bush.

475
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 1: So right now Democrats have this popularity problem with the brand.

476
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: I sort of feel the way you feel about this,

477
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: Like I still think people will vote for them. I

478
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: still think this is much ado about nothing, But I wonder, like,

479
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 1: for example, a grand Platner from Maine, who I interviewed

480
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: and thought was very smart. He has done a lot

481
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: of you know, he knows he's in a very purple state.

482
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: He's very working class guy, or at least he's running

483
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: as that. And he talked about all his MAGA friends

484
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: and how you know, sort of the things they're disappointed with,

485
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: the things that they filed. Trump had promised them that

486
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: he hadn't delivered, and he is really talking sort of

487
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: running against corruption and not as a Democrat. We saw

488
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: this work in I mean work I think is a

489
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: relative term, but certainly saw some of this with Dan

490
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: Osborne and Nebraska. Because he didn't win, so it didn't work,

491
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: but he did, you know, he sort of ran as

492
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: anti establishment. Trump won on that even though it wasn't

493
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: it was bullshit. Do you think there's a lane for that?

494
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: Do you think it alienates traditional Democrats?

495
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 2: Do you think?

496
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 6: I mean no, I think Democrats are going to have

497
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 6: to be a big ten no matter what I mean.

498
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 6: There's so much diversity in that party, from anti abortion

499
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 6: rights Texans to fucking Rastafarians. You don't need a second party.

500
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 6: You have so much ideological diversity within the Democrats. And

501
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 6: again I don't really care about the popularity because Congress's

502
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 6: popularity is not great. Trump's popularity is not great. But

503
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 6: on the issues, on the issues, the majority of us

504
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 6: overwhelmingly support taxing the wealthy at a higher rate. We

505
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 6: still tax married couples who make four fifty k a

506
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 6: year the same rate as an individual. It makes a billion.

507
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 6: You know, people support taxing the point zero one percent

508
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 6: differently than the one percent paid family leaf good God,

509
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 6: when is one of these two parties going to pick

510
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 6: up this issue that everybody wants. Medicare covering vision, hearing

511
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 6: in dental, decriminalizing weed, not putting women in jail, not

512
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 6: having the government for citizens to be pregnant against their will.

513
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 6: These are all really popular policies. They're really popular with

514
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 6: young people. You know, we'll see if the Democrats can

515
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 6: make it about policy or if they're going to still

516
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 6: refuse to endorse the overwhelming winner of their own mayoral

517
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 6: primality and mayor primary in New York. I don't know

518
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 6: they know how to drop the ball, but on the

519
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 6: issues they can do it because the majority of independence

520
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 6: and Liberals and a lot of Republicans are on their side,

521
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 6: and they're not going to have a cult anymore. Donald

522
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 6: Trump can't run in twenty twenty six. He's not going

523
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 6: to be as big a factor. He may be finally

524
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 6: the toxic thing he should be. But to your point

525
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 6: about these law and order Republicans, I just want to

526
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 6: mention every single one of them believes that beating cops

527
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 6: for a lie is acceptable, and I don't know why

528
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 6: Democrats are afraid to say that.

529
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I think the framing that this

530
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: is about crime. It's clearly that he realizes he can't

531
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: run on the economy.

532
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 6: He stole from fucking Vets with his fraud online university.

533
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 6: Marco Rubio is the only person to ever call him

534
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 6: out for that. In the Senate, Democrats don't want to

535
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 6: touch it, you know. I mean, you've got a criminal

536
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 6: right there, You've got thirty four felony convictions, You've got

537
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 6: it all on tape. You've got to grab them by

538
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 6: the pussy. These Democrats are springing spreadsheets to a knife fight.

539
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 6: And we've talked about this, Molly. The ones who are

540
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 6: willing to take a punch, the ones who are willing

541
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 6: to put their body in the movement, the ones who

542
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 6: are going to go there and give a fight. They're

543
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 6: the ones who are going to lead in the fundraising.

544
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 6: And if that's what matters the most, is the fund raising,

545
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 6: I mean, you're going to see it. That's going to

546
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 6: help what newsome learning to read the room after those

547
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 6: disastrous podcasts.

548
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah he did.

549
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 6: That's the way it's going to go.

550
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: Why do you think Jeffries is having such a hard time.

551
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 6: I think it's a good question. I think he's seen

552
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 6: his wishy washy, and that's the worst thing Democrats can have.

553
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 6: Bill Clinton famously said Americans would rather vote for someone

554
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 6: strong and wrong than weak and right. And I like

555
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 6: Jeffries a lot as a writer of poetry. I think

556
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 6: he's very clever, he's very compassionate. But we got to

557
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 6: see the fight, you know, and when the whole party

558
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 6: is seen, is wishy washy over mom, Donnie. Republicans smell that,

559
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 6: you know, take a sigh, and even if they don't

560
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 6: agree with you, they'll respect you for sticking to your guns,

561
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 6: especially when you're trying to get young people and men

562
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 6: to come over to the party. Look what's going out

563
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 6: of the New York and how they're blowing it off.

564
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: Why do you think they don't want to endorse, you

565
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 2: know why because they're terrified of how racist they think

566
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: this country is.

567
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 6: And the reality is. And I said this on CNN

568
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 6: a couple of weeks ago, But if you look at

569
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 6: his policies, bringing it back to my books, Zorah and

570
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 6: Mondani's policies of expanded housing and food for the hungry

571
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 6: and care for mothers with children, it is so much

572
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 6: closer to the teachings of Christ than all these so

573
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 6: called Christians smearing the man for being Muslim. And if

574
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 6: Democrats could take that message and just punch back on

575
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 6: it and say, e plurbasunem bitches, we're all here. I mean, yeah,

576
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 6: they'd lose some voters, but they gained the respect of

577
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 6: other people and nobody would call them wishy washy or

578
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 6: week they want to see fighters. Pritzker gets it, and

579
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 6: I pray that leader Jeffries gets it because I think

580
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 6: he could have a great career.

581
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: I don't know, we'll see John. Thank you for joining us, Molly,

582
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: you're the best.

583
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 6: It's a pleasure to be on your show, and thanks

584
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 6: for inspiring me so much.

585
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: Nicki McCann Ramirez is a reporter at Rolling Stone.

586
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fastpolity. It's Nikki.

587
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, thank you so much for having me

588
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: again her on weekend television together.

589
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: It was great.

590
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: I was a fill in host for a woman who's

591
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: own attorney leave and I was like, Nikki is so

592
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: great and she can talk about anything.

593
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 2: Let's just talk to her about stuff. I love talking

594
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: to you every time we chat. It's a good time. First,

595
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: I think we should talk about Epstein. Absolutely.

596
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: I am still like somewhat surprised by that press conference

597
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: where Marjorie Taylor Green and Thomas Massey. Thomas Massey, I

598
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: understand his psychology because he's like a real Freedom Caucus guy, right,

599
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: He's a guy who doesn't give a fuck.

600
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: Like the Freedoms.

601
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: Guys pretend to not give a fuck, but at the

602
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: end of the day, they absolutely just want Trump to

603
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: love them. But like Tomas Massey, he doesn't care. Like

604
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: he's just out there. He's a kid who no one

605
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: sits with at lunch. You know, he doesn't want you

606
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: to sit with him at lunch. He doesn't care.

607
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: But Marjorie Taylor Green, like what is happening?

608
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 5: So I think one of the things that I try

609
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 5: to tell people when I talk about the Epstein situation

610
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 5: and why it's because so fraught for Republicans is because,

611
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 5: to me, obviously a crime was committed, convictions have taken place,

612
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 5: But the Epstein case is also the closest sort of

613
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 5: like polite societies, like the universe, that is grounded in

614
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 5: actual reality and like facts on the ground, legitimate events

615
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 5: can get to QAnon in the sense that very early

616
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 5: on in the Trump era, obviously the MAGA movement the

617
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 5: Republican Party built up this like massive mythology around Tromp

618
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 5: as this like anti pedophile warrior of the right who

619
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 5: was going to come in and like purge the deep

620
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 5: state of these gross pedophilic, child obsessed criminals who are

621
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 5: running the government.

622
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: And QAnon was.

623
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: Conspiratorial and weird and you know, adjacent to things like

624
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 5: Pizza Gate and was.

625
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: Not grounded in reality.

626
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: But the Epstein case, which I think you know, the

627
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 5: federal one at least six years out now, it's easy

628
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 5: to forget that that took place during the first Trump term,

629
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 5: and that that case very much was sort of the

630
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 5: real world embodiment of a lot of the fears that

631
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 5: sort of grounded QAnon and conspiracies like the like at

632
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 5: this idea that like powerful men and politicians and you know,

633
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 5: royals can do heinous things and get away with it,

634
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 5: and that the idea that like Epstein and death kind

635
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 5: of got away with it.

636
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: That is still the debacle we're dealing with.

637
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 5: And the reason people like Marjory Taylor Green are coming

638
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 5: into the role on this almost like in a weird way,

639
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 5: allying with Democrats and survivors on this issue is again,

640
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: we have to remember Marjorie Taylor Green was a conspiracy theorist.

641
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: Jewish space lasers and QAnon.

642
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, when she first came into Congress, she was one

643
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 5: of the fringiest I think what she was elected in

644
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 5: twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. When she came in, she was

645
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 5: on the list of like the most insane MAGA candidates,

646
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 5: the fringiest candidates, the most extreme. She was completely out

647
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 5: of pocket. And now people like Marjorie Green have become

648
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 5: mainstream Republicans, but to the extent that there are people

649
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 5: who were motivated by sort of core beliefs like the

650
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: foundational almost like theological, deified principles of the MAGA movement,

651
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 5: of Trump being sort of this like messianic transformational figure

652
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 5: who would really transform politics away from you know, the

653
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 5: qwanon the QAnon conspiracies.

654
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: Green was one of those true believers.

655
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: And I think there is still within Republicans this tug

656
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 5: of war of like, Okay, how much do I hate

657
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 5: the Democrats and how much is what the Trump administration

658
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 5: is doing sort of like running counter to the principles

659
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 5: that even got me involved in politics, if that makes sense.

660
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, as much as any of this makes sense, But

661
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: I also think the reason that this Jeffrey Epstein's story

662
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: continues to so connect with the base is because it

663
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: really is a product of this idea that the system

664
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: is rigged against you. Yeah, one percent, and Trump ran

665
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: for president on the idea that the system was rigged.

666
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: And that's what this is, right, This is like which

667
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: people getting away with it?

668
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 5: Yeah? And I think then the problem Republicans and Democrats

669
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 5: also to a very similar extent running too is like

670
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 5: which rich people are allowed to get away with it?

671
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 5: I think we talked about it when we were talking

672
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 5: about like Alex Costa over the weekend, and the fact

673
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 5: that the first people that Republicans in Congress subpoenad to

674
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 5: talk about this case in the Oversight Committee were the

675
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 5: Clintons and fucking James Comy, right.

676
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, again, if Bill Clinton is in

677
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: those files like a lot of past Yeah, Like I

678
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: like Hillary, She's very nice, but you know, like people,

679
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: if they did crimes, they should go to fucking jail.

680
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: And I have no love for James Coby, like honestly

681
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: that fucking guy, Like I'd be delighted if they locked

682
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: him up.

683
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, But also just like like I also do not

684
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 5: have any love for James Comy, But what does James

685
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: Comy have to do with the Epstein case?

686
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: Nothing but nothing.

687
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: I do think what is interesting about is James Commy's

688
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: daughter has quite a lot to do with the Epstein case,

689
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: but she got fired as opposed to like she would

690
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: be someone I would like to hear testify Maureen Komy

691
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: because she worked on it. The other thing that and

692
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: that's like the obfuscation is so blinding. You know, they

693
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: release all these documents and the Ebstein influencers Phase one

694
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: in their binders, it's the same material. But the other

695
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: thing that I think is so incredible about the story

696
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: is you had all these people who were going to

697
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: sign on to the discharge position and they used this

698
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: material that they already had seen as an excuse not to.

699
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think, well the survivors talked about in

700
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 5: a bit today during the press conference. It's just you

701
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 5: have all of this material that even they haven't seen,

702
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 5: Like there's stuff in these files that survivors say, this

703
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 5: could help me with my case, it could help me

704
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 5: get closer, Like documents that were seized from like Epstein's residences,

705
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 5: at Epstein's Ela, they say like the US government has

706
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 5: all this information that could help me plug the holes

707
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 5: in my own story actually make the case against the

708
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 5: people who abuse me, who are like still alive and

709
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 5: out there. And instead of actually reaching out to the

710
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 5: survivors and talking to them and figuring out like what

711
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 5: they're comfortable releasing, how they're comfortable handling these documents, and

712
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 5: where they would like things to go, what they would

713
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 5: like to see happen, the administration is once again turning

714
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 5: it into a political side show. And I do think

715
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: we have to differentiate a little bit here between sort

716
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 5: of like the actions of the White House the actions

717
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 5: of Congressional Republicans and so the sort of like, oh,

718
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 5: we're gonna call in people for subpoenas, we're going to

719
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 5: make people like sit down and testify, and then the

720
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 5: people like Massy and Green who are weirdly enough doing

721
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 5: that survivor outreach and actually trying to like bring them

722
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 5: into the fold.

723
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: And I think it's important just for a minute to

724
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: go through the Oversight Committee. So the chairs of the

725
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: Oversight Committee, James Comer is the Republican chair, and then

726
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: the ranking member is Robert Garcia. Now I want to

727
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: just do a minute on oversight. It used to be

728
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: the AOC wanted to be of the ranking on oversight.

729
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: The Democratic leadership said, no, We're going to make Jerry

730
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: Connolly the ranking on oversight because he's a fighter. He

731
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: died of throw cancer, which he was being treated for

732
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: during the time in one of the many, many embarrassing

733
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: moments in Democratic leadership, and many other octogenarians ran for it,

734
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: but Robert Garcia got it. Robert Garcia is like in

735
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: his thirties or forties, and he has really done a

736
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: good job in fat And I want and we talked

737
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: about this this weekend, but I want to just note

738
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: it again the fact that we saw again Jasmine Crockett

739
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: say this is because of Robert Garcia and not necessarily

740
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: because of Hakeem.

741
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: She didn't quite say.

742
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: That, but it seems very clear to me that this

743
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: is being dealt with quite well by Garcia, and that

744
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: he is a usual and leadership in a way that

745
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: I think is Worth's noted.

746
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: And I think despite this.

747
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 5: Being like and I hate reducing this down to politics

748
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:10,959
Speaker 5: because like as you and I.

749
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: Have talked about, hugely political, I mean this, it's hugely

750
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: Guys in this case.

751
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: Are probably being driven on politics.

752
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 5: Okay, so like the central people here should be the

753
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 5: survivors and the victims who are and they're after and

754
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 5: they're not. But this is in this second Trump administration,

755
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 5: one of the rare instances where Republicans, the Republican Party,

756
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 5: the White House are very clearly on the back foot

757
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 5: and do not know how to manage this crisis.

758
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 2: And it hasn't been the Democratic leadership.

759
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 5: You're hockey, Jeffrey's your truck, Schumer's who are really leading

760
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 5: the messaging sort of war to keep this in the

761
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 5: press at attention. It's been people like Rocana, people like Garcia,

762
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 5: It's like Jasmine Crockett. And it's incredibly frustrating as someone

763
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 5: who writes and covers the to feel like the in

764
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 5: there for Democrats is so easy, and we're still seeing

765
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 5: leadership drop the ball just unbelievably.

766
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm glad the press conference happened.

767
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 5: I think it was probably, in my view, like a

768
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 5: month a month and a half too late. I think

769
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 5: that press conference should have probably happened for Max. I

770
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 5: think it will have an impact, but for maximum impact

771
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 5: before Republicans just cut the spring session short and left

772
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 5: further summer recess a week ahead of time to try

773
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 5: and get this to blow over, which obviously it hasn't.

774
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: But I think if Democrats were a little more on

775
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 5: the ball, all they would have pulled in the survivors

776
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 5: before you know, Todd Blanche went to talk to Glaine Maxwell, right.

777
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: Right, No, no, and the bad that Todd Blanche. I mean,

778
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: I think it's worth realizing Todd Blanche going to talk

779
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: to Glaine Maxwell, Glaine Maxwell then being moved to a cushier,

780
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: less secure prison camp.

781
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: The thing I want.

782
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: To talk about with this case is that it still

783
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: seems like even though the White House figured out that

784
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: if they just sent I mean, this is amazing, if

785
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: they just made Mike Johnson send everyone home, then it

786
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: would go away. A month and a half later, it

787
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: has not gone away, and they have no plan.

788
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, to deal with that.

789
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 5: In what end of July when they left for the

790
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 5: August recess, if you would have told the administration, hey,

791
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,959
Speaker 5: like Pambondi, Cash Battel, and Alex Costa are all being well,

792
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 5: not Alex Cossack.

793
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: You've all did it voluntarily.

794
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 5: But you know, Cashpatel and Panbondi are being suboenaed or

795
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 5: like called to testify before oversight.

796
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 2: We're releasing all these documents.

797
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 5: Hey, members of your own party and Democrats are hosting

798
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 5: a joint press conference with survivors on the steps of

799
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 5: the Capitol. One of your biggest allies, Marjorie Taylor Green,

800
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 5: will be there and she will be speaking. Nancy Vace,

801
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 5: who I consider, you know, a performative, white man, performative

802
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 5: on the worst thing. Yeah, white bag of performative in

803
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 5: that way that I don't ever find her sincere you know,

804
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 5: leaving the meeting with survivors saying she had like a

805
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 5: panic attack, hysterical.

806
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 2: The administration I think would.

807
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 5: Have probably called it fake news and like revoked your

808
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 5: press pass to the briefing. This is, in my view,

809
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 5: a repetition of the exact mistakes that were made by

810
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 5: alex Acosta in the two thousand and nine case by

811
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 5: the White House, where instead of centering the victims hearing

812
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 5: what they have to say. Because, like I said, so

813
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 5: much of the conversation around the Epstein case is driven

814
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 5: by this like maga belief that Donald Trump is the

815
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 5: hero of the story, that he's supposed to be the

816
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 5: hero of the story, that goes after these people and

817
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 5: the White House.

818
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: All they really.

819
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 5: Need to do to make this go away is sit

820
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 5: down with the victims and the survivors and say like, Okay,

821
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 5: this is what we have.

822
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 2: What are you comfortable releasing? How do we pursue this?

823
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 5: The DOJ was talking this up for months, but the

824
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: problem is that they do not feel that they can

825
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 5: risk doing that without exposing Trump himself. So instead they're

826
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 5: trying to find a work around where they can sort

827
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 5: of min max the fuck you they can give to

828
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 5: Democrats out of this with like while at the same

829
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 5: time providing the least pause exposure to Trump, which is

830
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 5: not possible. And that's exactly kind of like what alex

831
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 5: Acosta did when he gave Epstein the sweetheart deal in

832
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 5: two thousand and nine. It's like he's blamed everyone, and

833
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 5: I think if you go to the core of why

834
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 5: this case got so messed up, you have to start

835
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 5: with Alex Cossa. But he, I think in twenty nineteen,

836
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 5: said that the reason he made that deal was because

837
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 5: you needed to send Epstein to prison, Like you just

838
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 5: needed to get him into prison, and it didn't really

839
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 5: matter how you got there.

840
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: He just needed to be put behind bars.

841
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 5: But what he ended up doing was just sending him

842
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 5: to like a one year's summer worker leads program where

843
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 5: he got to do whatever.

844
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 2: He wanted, where he then raped other women. Yeah, and

845
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 2: then went back to reoffending.

846
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 5: And that's sort of exactly what the administration is doing

847
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 5: right now. While sort of playing foot seat with Gallaine

848
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 5: Maxwell like, oh, we'll interview you about Trump and you'll

849
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 5: say all the things you like about him, and you

850
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 5: might perjure yourself again, but that'll get us off the hook.

851
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: That's not how this works. It's just an incredibly stupid moment.

852
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: And I think that why I wanted to talk about

853
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: this a little more is it does speak to the

854
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: problem this administration has with be incompetent. So we've seen

855
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: over the last seven months. I actually read an opinion

856
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: piece in the New York Times today about how like

857
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: Trump had wrecked all of the federal government and now

858
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: here was time to see if he could build back better.

859
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: And it's like wrecking things is really easy, like even

860
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: Elon can do it. But like with so many things

861
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: that we're seeing now, it's like, will they be able

862
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: to build something? And the answer is, I think pretty clear. Now,

863
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: just like with this, I have.

864
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 5: An interview coming out next week with Mike Duncan, the

865
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 5: podcaster of Like History of Rome and the Revolutions podcast.

866
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: Love him, great dude. The interview's about a lot of things, but.

867
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 5: At one point he's talked about this before his like

868
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: great Idiot theory of history, which is sort of the

869
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 5: opposite of the great man theory of history, that it's

870
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 5: not just like, you know, the men who build things,

871
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 5: it's the idiots who come in and just take a

872
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 5: wrecking ball of shit. And it's exactly what you're saying.

873
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 5: It is much easier to destroy things than it is

874
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 5: to build them. And if you just look at Trump's cabinet,

875
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 5: look at the people who are in charge of these administrations,

876
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 5: these are not people who are accomplished in a like

877
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 5: governmental policy sense. There are people who are accomplished in

878
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 5: a I was on Fox News.

879
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: A lot sense, right.

880
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: As someone who has hosted weekend television, now, I can

881
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: tell you I am not not ready to lead the

882
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: dd Oh not not you me either, not yet. But

883
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: I do think that is a good point. So now

884
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: there are going to be hearings. Now, there's going to

885
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: be you know, I talk to the office of one

886
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: of the Democrats involved in this today and they told

887
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: me that they think they're going to have the boats.

888
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: So now this discharge petition will go to the Senate, right,

889
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this is where this goes and then the president,

890
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: and I mean at some point somebody is going to

891
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: take the blame for not releasing these documents.

892
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 5: So I think the thing we need to remember here is,

893
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 5: regardless of what happens with this discharged petition, which I

894
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 5: have also heard, they're like two votes awaited from getting

895
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 5: it passed, it is correct when they say you cannot

896
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 5: unseal a lot of these documents without the approval of

897
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 5: like a judge, which is a completely separate process.

898
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: So where I think all.

899
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 5: This goes back to is fundamentally, like the person who's

900
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 5: going to end up with the hot potato is going

901
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 5: to be the Trump administration and the DJ because Congress,

902
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 5: at the end of the day, can.

903
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: Only do so much.

904
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 5: They can maybe unredact some stuff, they can maybe make

905
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 5: some stuff public, the real goods that victims and survivors

906
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 5: are asking to see cannot be provided to them unless

907
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 5: their risk cooperation from both like Congress, the Department of justice,

908
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 5: and you know a.

909
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: Judge who if they come in.

910
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 5: And say, we would like this stuff unsealed, agrees to

911
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 5: do so if the Trump administration was able to use

912
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 5: its head and ally itself with this cohort of survivors,

913
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 5: alli its help, with the coalition of people who is saying,

914
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 5: we would like to get to the pottom of this

915
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 5: and actually work on providing all those like levers of

916
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 5: power that the Justice Department has which they are currently

917
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 5: using to like persecure Trump's political enemies rather than do actual,

918
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 5: like productive stuff.

919
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: For the American people.

920
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 5: If they gave that to the survivors, that would advance

921
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 5: the situation significantly.

922
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to do that.

923
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 5: So at the end of the day, what you're going

924
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 5: to get is survivors were once again saying, hey, the

925
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 5: Trump administration made all these public promises about how they

926
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 5: were going to be transparent about the Epstein files, about

927
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 5: how they were going to like bring justice to us,

928
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 5: and they once again dropped the ball. Because to be clear,

929
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 5: this is the second time we are doing this.

930
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 1: Right and again this is like one of these things

931
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: where it fractures the base, it fractures Trump's space the

932
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: base that Donald Trump needs, the die hards, the people

933
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: who will not leave him those people. The other thing

934
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: I want to talk about for a minute is Robert

935
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: Mahler because in that subpoenal list was Robert Mahler, and

936
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: this caused Robert Mahler's children to come forward and say

937
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: that Robert Mueller has Parkinson's. Perhaps not the way we

938
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 1: wanted to learn about Robert Mahler, who was responsible for

939
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: huge investigation, which I mean, I just think that is

940
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: something worth thinking about for a minute.

941
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: In relation to Epstein.

942
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: What were just I mean, like, there was no transparency

943
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: about Moller, and now we get transparency because he gets

944
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: subpoenaed in the Epstein stuff.

945
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that that again is a tactic

946
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 5: Republicans have been using for a very long time now.

947
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: Like I look at the list of people they.

948
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 5: Subpoenaed, and my just gut reaction when I first saw

949
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 5: it was these are not serious people who are interested

950
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 5: in doing a serious investigation.

951
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: Robert Mueller, you put him on that.

952
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 5: I'm trying to think what Mueller, if anything had to

953
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 5: do with the Epstein cares yesh.

954
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 1: Thing not I mean Mahller, you know, it's they put, well,

955
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: he was the head of the FBI, I guess, but

956
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: the point I mean, they're just it's just insane.

957
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 2: No, it's because Trump is mad at Maler. Well, of

958
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: course he's mad at him.

959
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 5: But if you kind of rewind back to that one

960
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 5: press conference in the Oval Office where he was complaining

961
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 5: about like, why are we still talking about Epstein? I

962
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 5: think from him saying why are we talking about Epstein,

963
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 5: that he jumped into his usual list of complaints, and

964
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 5: what the immediate thing he jumped through was, oh, why

965
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 5: do we care about Epstein? There's all these worse things

966
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 5: that have happened, like the Texas floods, whatever else was

967
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 5: happening on and then the Mueller investigation into me, and again,

968
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 5: the White House for more than like almost two months

969
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 5: now at this point, has just been consistently trying to

970
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 5: pivot this Epstein debacle into how is Trump the victim?

971
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh?

972
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 5: The Obamas were like targeting him, Oh, the Miller investigation,

973
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, no, we have this new information on the

974
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 5: Clintons and it just hasn't worked. But what that's a

975
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 5: penalist indicated to me is just a reaffirmation that Congress

976
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 5: is still taking it it's marching orders from the priorities

977
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 5: of the Trump administration. And the priority isn't the Epstein case.

978
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 5: It's revenge on the people. The president is mad at Nikki.

979
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 5: I hope you'll come back, Oh anytime.

980
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: No moment sickly.

981
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 4: Jesse Cannon Molly So, a friend of the show sent

982
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 4: me this article, and I gotta say, this might be

983
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 4: the most disturbing moment of uckery I've seen in a minute.

984
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: You remember our old friend Klelia Mitchell.

985
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: Ah, Cleida Mitchell. Who could forget Kleida Mitchell.

986
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 4: You know you don't want to see her name next

987
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 4: to the words election integrity post at the US Department

988
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,240
Speaker 4: of Homeland Security, But yet she's getting that. You remind

989
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 4: the listeners of Kleida Mitchell's presence.

990
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: Kleida Mitchell not to be confused with Kleitas. No, the

991
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: scariest worst people are in this administration.

992
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 4: You're welcome, Yeah, But particularly what I'm worried about is

993
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 4: these two people are severe election deniers who do not

994
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 4: live in reality and.

995
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: Will do insane, insane things to fix elections.

996
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: Yes, correct, that's not good. It's all bad. I think

997
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: we should all agree. It's all very very very bad.

998
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

999
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

1000
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1001
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1002
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going.

1003
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.