Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, did you see Rihanna's latest look with
Speaker 1: that string going across that pregnant belly. Yes, she is
Speaker 1: putting out looks that I wouldn't dare to and she's
Speaker 1: doing it with a plus one in her belly. Yes,
Speaker 1: she is definitely that girl, that girl. You know, it
Speaker 1: feels only right that when our good friend Rihanna goes
Speaker 1: through the changes, that we go through them right beside her. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm having sympathy pains, are you. Yes, I've been eating
Speaker 1: a lot more, you know, feel like I'm eating for
Speaker 1: two or maybe I'm just greedy. Who knows it could be.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say with one. I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: what I think. Our age group we kind of grew
Speaker 1: up with Rihanna, so it feels like a family affair.
Speaker 1: So talking about all the motions that she's going through
Speaker 1: it feels therapeutic for us all. And so it's only
Speaker 1: right that we jump into what her new future will
Speaker 1: look like and what it looks like right now in
Speaker 1: the landscape of maternal health. I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah
Speaker 1: and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs,
Speaker 1: a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, pop culture, and
Speaker 1: a healthy dosa friendship. Now, we've already talked about our
Speaker 1: friend Rihanna, but we also want to remember that Mother's
Speaker 1: Day is right around the corner, so it's only fitting
Speaker 1: that we're talking all about maternal health this week. That's right.
Speaker 1: We specifically wanted to know about the current status of
Speaker 1: our maternal health care system, whether it's working, and what
Speaker 1: we can do to better support birthing parents. And because
Speaker 1: this is such a huge topic, we're going to have
Speaker 1: another episode next week, a Part two, to dig in
Speaker 1: even deeper into maternal health. Let's get into the recitation.
Speaker 1: So what do we know? Well, I know we already
Speaker 1: talked about reproductive health, and maternal health is kind of
Speaker 1: related to reproductive health, but a little bit different. The
Speaker 1: things that started coming up in that episode that we
Speaker 1: did on reproductive health is now coming to life on
Speaker 1: Monday of this week. So May second, it was leaked
Speaker 1: that Row versus Wade might be or probably is going
Speaker 1: to be overturned, which in my mind, I think I
Speaker 1: said this in the Reproductive Health episode. I just don't
Speaker 1: it feels like we are taking such large steps backwards,
Speaker 1: you know, even the fact that that was a draft
Speaker 1: opinion that uh doesn't feel good. It does not feel good.
Speaker 1: And hopefully we'll be able to update all of you
Speaker 1: all as more information comes out. I think we also
Speaker 1: know that having children is a long term commitment and
Speaker 1: it is very expensive, and so having the right resources
Speaker 1: in place is very important. And I also know that
Speaker 1: having children not only is expensive and a long term commitment,
Speaker 1: it's risky. Yeah, there are so many things that come
Speaker 1: along with it. And as more of my friends are
Speaker 1: having kids, I'm like, that's a risk, that's something that
Speaker 1: could happen. It's wild, honestly. And I guess that gets
Speaker 1: into what do we want to know? And I want
Speaker 1: to know why after all this time? You know, people
Speaker 1: have been having babies forever. Yes, I know we say
Speaker 1: since the beginning of time as just like a phrase
Speaker 1: or turn phrase, but literally, since the beginning of time,
Speaker 1: people have been having babies. And so I want to
Speaker 1: know why we're still having all of these issues with
Speaker 1: maternal health care and not just blanket issues. So it's
Speaker 1: blanket risky, but then within that risk disparities whereas riskier
Speaker 1: for certain groups? Right? Why? Yes? And then I want
Speaker 1: to know about the stuff that is not making front
Speaker 1: page news or is not you know, associated with some
Speaker 1: of these really big names celebrities, that has happened to them.
Speaker 1: I want to know about some of the stuff that
Speaker 1: you might not know about. Yeah, day to day swept
Speaker 1: under the rug. Absolutely, and then once we understand that
Speaker 1: TT then what if we know all this stuff, what's next?
Speaker 1: What can we do? I want to know what the
Speaker 1: future of maternal health looks like. Fuja. All right, let's
Speaker 1: jump into the dissection. Our guest for today's lab is
Speaker 1: Simone Tate.
Speaker 2: I'm Simone Tate. I'm the founder and CEO of poppy
Speaker 2: Seed Health.
Speaker 1: Poppy Seed Health is a telehealth app that connects birthing
Speaker 1: people to duelas midwives or nurses for one on one support.
Speaker 1: And the fact that an organization like poppy Seed Health
Speaker 1: exists already points to some gaps in our maternal health
Speaker 1: care system, you know, absolutely. So the first thing that
Speaker 1: we asked Simone was to help us understand maternal healthcare
Speaker 1: in the United States right now? Where do we stand?
Speaker 2: Maternal healthcare in the US is what I like to
Speaker 2: call perfectly antiquated. We haven't evolved in the same ways
Speaker 2: as some of the other developed countries we are still addressing,
Speaker 2: especially populations that are underserved in a lot of the
Speaker 2: same ways that we were doing twenty thirty and forty
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 1: So basically, it's still the game of Thrones if you're
Speaker 1: on the maternal healthcare journey. I wish I knew a
Speaker 1: game of Thrones reference shame. That's the one that I
Speaker 1: think of all the time. Shame on the healthcare system.
Speaker 2: For being like that what we see happening in maternal
Speaker 2: healthcare today as it leads to the rise in maternal
Speaker 2: mortality and morbidity cases, especially for women that look just
Speaker 2: like us, right, black and brown women in the US,
Speaker 2: and in near misses, which means that you might have
Speaker 2: complications or something that's literally a near miss that could
Speaker 2: be fatal.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, morbidity and mortality are often
Speaker 1: grouped together. Morbidity refers to health issues, and when we
Speaker 1: say maternal morbidity, we're referring to health issues due to
Speaker 1: pregnancy you're giving birth, whereas mortality is death and that's
Speaker 1: death from health issues during pregnancy or given birth, or
Speaker 1: within six weeks after a pregnancy ends. The US spends
Speaker 1: the most money on maternal health in the world, but
Speaker 1: has one of the highest mortality rates among developed countries.
Speaker 1: According to the CDC, each year, around seven hundred birthing
Speaker 1: people die from pregnancy or birth complications, and that risk
Speaker 1: is three to four times more likely for black women.
Speaker 1: So we ask simone to break down what is included
Speaker 1: in maternal health.
Speaker 2: As soon as you go to see your doctor, which
Speaker 2: is typically somewhere between eight to nine weeks pregnant, you
Speaker 2: are then in the maternal healthcare system in the US,
Speaker 2: and that doesn't matter who you are right where you
Speaker 2: are on the spectrum of health insurance, commercial health insurance,
Speaker 2: or medicaid. As soon as you're identified in the system,
Speaker 2: there is a maternal healthcare journey that you are immediately
Speaker 2: put on.
Speaker 1: For most people, this looks like twenty minute monthly appointments
Speaker 1: with your OBGYN.
Speaker 2: That might include having a sonogram. There's some major milestone
Speaker 2: tests that you're also getting along the way. One of
Speaker 2: the big ones that most people know of is the
Speaker 2: anatomy scan, when they scan and measure the entire baby.
Speaker 2: There's your gestational diabetes test, which is another big milestone,
Speaker 2: and then there's labor and delivery. Once you have that baby,
Speaker 2: you are effectively out of the maternal healthcare system.
Speaker 1: It happens really fast. The federal requirement for insurance coverage
Speaker 1: after the delivery of a baby is only sixty days,
Speaker 1: so that's a really short window to get your things
Speaker 1: together and to have appointments. You know. Yeah, And on
Speaker 1: average the points are to minutes twenty minutes over ten months.
Speaker 1: It's only two hundred minutes worth of time eyeball to
Speaker 1: eyeball with a doctor. And that's if it's eyeball to eyeball, girl. Hello,
Speaker 1: If it's eyeball to eyeball, that would make me very nervous.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like enough time, especially considering all the
Speaker 1: changes that are happening to your body. And now it's
Speaker 1: a whole new person here too, exactly, like who go
Speaker 1: look out for this thing? They just got here.
Speaker 2: Once you have the baby, the entire thing shifts and
Speaker 2: you have follow up appointments for your baby. But the
Speaker 2: birthing person typically is only going to see their doctor
Speaker 2: at that fateful six week mark when you get to
Speaker 2: find out if you can have sex again or not.
Speaker 2: That's what most people know that appointment for. And then
Speaker 2: you're back into your normal health care.
Speaker 1: I think I would have a lot of follow up questions. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would want that doctor to move in with me,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what Simone is advocating for. Holistic care,
Speaker 1: a doctor or provider to look after your body and
Speaker 1: mind considering the major event that just took place. Yes,
Speaker 1: birth pushing a whole body out of your body.
Speaker 2: Yes, the maternal health care system is really focused on
Speaker 2: the baby. We want to focus on both the baby
Speaker 2: and the person. So your emotional mental health support, which
Speaker 2: is healthcare, is just as important as your physical care.
Speaker 2: And also having the kind of evidence based information and
Speaker 2: knowledge that helps you to understand what's actually happening with
Speaker 2: your body as you go through one of life's biggest milestones.
Speaker 2: That's a cultural shift that's going to take time, and.
Speaker 1: These opportunities for birthing people to get that emotional mental
Speaker 1: health and support should happen throughout a pregnancy, not just
Speaker 1: during the twenty minute appointments with their doctor. It's also
Speaker 1: important to have continued support after birth too.
Speaker 2: That first year of postpartum is so critical. For example,
Speaker 2: if you look at the Nordic countries or even the UK,
Speaker 2: you get sent home from the hospital after having a baby,
Speaker 2: and within just a day or two, a nurse or
Speaker 2: a doula shows up on your doorstep and they are
Speaker 2: with you for the first four to six weeks, sometimes
Speaker 2: eight weeks after you have the baby, just showing up
Speaker 2: taking care of you and also taking care of the baby.
Speaker 2: So there are so many points that we can improve
Speaker 2: on for the whole person for the best of health outcomes.
Speaker 1: We've been talking about what maternal health can look like
Speaker 1: if everything goes right with pregnancy and birth birth and
Speaker 1: people are looking at ten monthly appointments, a six week
Speaker 1: follow up, and then they're pretty quickly back into their
Speaker 1: regular health care. But we know healthcare access and quality
Speaker 1: are not equal for all people in this country. According
Speaker 1: to Simone, there are three main bottlenecks when it comes
Speaker 1: to accessing care within the maternal health care system.
Speaker 2: So the first one is when we think about showing
Speaker 2: up to appointments. That means that you are able to
Speaker 2: leave your job, take the time off. If you have
Speaker 2: other children, you're able to get child's care. It also
Speaker 2: means that you have a car or transportation, and I'm
Speaker 2: talking about these twenty minute appointments. But let's be honest,
Speaker 2: we show up to the doctor's office and we're usually
Speaker 2: there for way more than twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: If you think about taking two hours out of your
Speaker 1: day every month for ten months, that's around twenty hours.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of time spent not working. Not everyone's
Speaker 1: allowed to do that. Not everyone is allowed to do that,
Speaker 1: and even if they're allowed, not everyone can afford to
Speaker 1: do that, exactly because time off is money lost. So
Speaker 1: then we have to ask what are the outcomes for
Speaker 1: a birthing person who's unable to attend those monthly appointments exactly.
Speaker 1: And this relates to the second bottleneck in our current
Speaker 1: maternal health care system, the lack of remote care options.
Speaker 2: Our infrastructure and maternal health care is not set up
Speaker 2: for both the digital space and the in person space.
Speaker 2: I take a strong stance that holistic care and a
Speaker 2: new care model is both in person and not in
Speaker 2: person to make sure that people are taken care of
Speaker 2: wherever they are.
Speaker 1: So we've seen COVID increase access to telehealth right, but
Speaker 1: that's a double edged sword because there are still these
Speaker 1: disparities that exist. For example, who has a computer right
Speaker 1: and who feels like they're able to connect with their doctor.
Speaker 1: So on one hand, it may be beneficial to have
Speaker 1: some appointments over telehealth. On the other hand, it may
Speaker 1: be beneficial to have them in person. And so I
Speaker 1: think that's why Simona is suggesting a blended model absolutely,
Speaker 1: because there are some things that are lost through, you know, FaceTime.
Speaker 1: We know that just from our social interactions with people, yes,
Speaker 1: and sometimes just being able to be like physically in person,
Speaker 1: looking your doctor in the eye gives you a certain
Speaker 1: level of comfort in your ability to explain what's going
Speaker 1: on with you and the service that you may require
Speaker 1: from them, And that leads us right to the third point.
Speaker 1: Simon says, the third bottleneck is maternal health care deserts.
Speaker 1: That means someone lives ninety miles or more from their
Speaker 1: closest healthcare provider or hospital.
Speaker 2: If you live in an urban area or major city
Speaker 2: in the US, we're all in bubbles. It's hard to
Speaker 2: imagine that your home is that far away from a
Speaker 2: hospital or your closest provider. So this is rural America.
Speaker 2: It's also the majority of where people are living that
Speaker 2: need paternal health care. We also are seeing a decrease
Speaker 2: in obgyns in these areas and also in doctors who
Speaker 2: go through med school and decide to become obgyns.
Speaker 1: This is all really interesting, but one thing that jumped
Speaker 1: out to me is the obgyn shortage. Why is there
Speaker 1: a shortage? It seems like there's a lot of factors.
Speaker 1: It's a supply and demand kind of thing. You know. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: when we look at our population over time, the number
Speaker 1: of women over eighteen has really increased, but the number
Speaker 1: of positions when we think about obgyn training, so first
Speaker 1: year residency positions, is not growing at the same scale.
Speaker 1: So you're having fewer obgyns even able to push through
Speaker 1: the training, and then you have more women who need
Speaker 1: to be served. That's just the baseline, the basic layer.
Speaker 1: The other part is when we consider we have aging
Speaker 1: populations that are retiring, and additionally, when you look at
Speaker 1: surgical residencies, obgyns are not getting paid a lot. And
Speaker 1: you know the other part is that they want to
Speaker 1: live in urban areas too, So then this doesn't help
Speaker 1: that shortage that we see in rural areas. Most of
Speaker 1: the training is in urban areas. Like when you think
Speaker 1: about where med schools are right and where major hospitals
Speaker 1: are I think I saw something that said people are
Speaker 1: likely to stay in the same place where they did
Speaker 1: their residencies.
Speaker 2: So these maternal healthcare deserts are becoming a major concern
Speaker 2: in the US. And just to put that in perspective
Speaker 2: for you, that affects about seven million birthing people in
Speaker 2: the US.
Speaker 1: That's wild. Ninety miles is the lower limit. Twelve miles
Speaker 1: in DC is forty five minutes, truly, and you could
Speaker 1: speak on Atlanta. Oh, I know that traffic is wild.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: They're doing crash cars on the highway right, They're doing
Speaker 1: monster trucks. And so even if you think about how
Speaker 1: long is it going to take? Is there public transit?
Speaker 1: What I feel safe getting in like a car service,
Speaker 1: you know, like Luber or Lyft? Can I afford to
Speaker 1: do that? There are so many compounding factors. Absolutely. I
Speaker 1: recently saw a TikTok of a woman who was pregnant
Speaker 1: and she was trying to get to a doctor's office.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have a car, and to use public transportation
Speaker 1: it would probably take her half of a day a workday,
Speaker 1: so like four hours just to get to the doctors.
Speaker 1: And so she was saying that she kept asking friends
Speaker 1: for help, and every time they would say yes, and
Speaker 1: then it would eventually fall through. So she had already
Speaker 1: missed two two months of appointments, and she was very
Speaker 1: nervous that this would negatively impact her health and the
Speaker 1: health of her baby. And when you think about stories
Speaker 1: like that, Simone is basically telling us that this is
Speaker 1: not just a one off. This is happening to millions
Speaker 1: of Americans that are pregnant. And this really makes me
Speaker 1: start thinking about how all these bottlenecks can then be
Speaker 1: further exacerbated or directly linked to socioeconomic status. Absolutely, if
Speaker 1: gas prices are up and your doctor is ninety miles
Speaker 1: away or more, maybe that's adding up. It now costs
Speaker 1: way more to get to the doctor.
Speaker 2: Furthermore, fifty percent of the birthing population in the US
Speaker 2: are on Medicaid, which means they don't have equal and
Speaker 2: equitable access to the best care.
Speaker 1: This is a really important point that Simone is making,
Speaker 1: and we are going to do an even deeper dive
Speaker 1: into Medicaid and access to equitable care in next week's
Speaker 1: episode in our part two. Okay, so back to the
Speaker 1: population on Medicare.
Speaker 2: So for that population specifically, those folks aren't even showing
Speaker 2: up into the maternal health care system until they're somewhere
Speaker 2: between twenty to twenty three weeks pregnant, so almost half
Speaker 2: or more than half of your pregnancy without prenatal care
Speaker 2: definitely affects health outcomes. But we need to stop blaming
Speaker 2: and shaming the person and look at the systems and
Speaker 2: the infrastructure that are lacking to begin with.
Speaker 1: Those are a lot of cars to have stacked up
Speaker 1: against you. Yeah, that seems like more than just one deck.
Speaker 1: It seems like a few decks of cards stacked against you.
Speaker 1: Blackjack six dicks, mm hmm. We wanted to learn more
Speaker 1: about some of the disparities in maternal health and why
Speaker 1: black and brown communities face more challenges in receiving care.
Speaker 2: So the CDC was not reporting on maternal health care
Speaker 2: outcomes for a decade, and when they did report on
Speaker 2: maternal healthcare outcomes and morbidity rates in the US, it
Speaker 2: showed that black and brown women are three to five
Speaker 2: times more likely in some parts of our country who
Speaker 2: have died from preventable deaths. That means that there were
Speaker 2: medical interventions that happened that escalated and resulted in a
Speaker 2: preventable death. The other side of that is that there
Speaker 2: were no medical interventions that happened and resulted in preventable deaths.
Speaker 1: Things can go bad if people get involved, and then
Speaker 1: things can go bad if they don't. Right, It's a
Speaker 1: scary situation to be in because you see two doors
Speaker 1: and there might be some bad behind both.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not only was it shocking, but it was truly unexpected.
Speaker 2: And that is because when we look at how our
Speaker 2: neighboring countries are doing, we see that maternal mortality rates
Speaker 2: are really low or non existent.
Speaker 1: So my question is why is this happening in the
Speaker 1: United States. Simon told us that the US pours the
Speaker 1: most money in the world into the maternal healthcare system.
Speaker 1: Clearly something isn't working.
Speaker 2: And as we know in our maternal healthcare system, in
Speaker 2: our healthcare system as a whole, the deep, deep racial
Speaker 2: bias that exists.
Speaker 1: There are these myths when it comes to black people
Speaker 1: and birth right about black women being able to withstand
Speaker 1: a lot of pain, or that all black people are
Speaker 1: all medicaid, and we know Medicaid isn't giving equal and
Speaker 1: equitable care, and we'll talk about that more next week.
Speaker 1: But I think all of that stuff just distracts us
Speaker 1: from these disparate health outcomes that black and brown people
Speaker 1: are experiencing in the healthcare system.
Speaker 2: And historically speaking, we also know that black women were
Speaker 2: used for experiments. We know that black women, pregnant black
Speaker 2: women's specifically were used in the medical industry to create
Speaker 2: all sorts of life saving surgeries. Yet these same things
Speaker 2: aren't being used today to save our lives.
Speaker 1: We've talked about racism and medicine on the show before,
Speaker 1: and so you got to understand that obstetrics and gynecology
Speaker 1: are no exception. Take us back intom TT. James Marion Simms,
Speaker 1: who's been called the father of modern gynecology, performed experiments
Speaker 1: on enslaved black women without anesthesia in the eighteen forties
Speaker 1: until the procedures were safe enough for white women. Later,
Speaker 1: he became the president of the American Medical Association in
Speaker 1: the American Gynecological Society.
Speaker 2: I want to relate this to this narrative that I
Speaker 2: would love us to smash. We are not stronger than
Speaker 2: every other woman out there. We absolutely feel pain, we
Speaker 2: know pain and were reporting pain. We need that to
Speaker 2: be taken seriously and currently because of racial bias, we
Speaker 2: know that Black women are not getting the kind of
Speaker 2: pain control or the kind of attention what we say
Speaker 2: that we are in discomfort, So being disregarded in that
Speaker 2: way can be fatal. There's a higher rate of pre
Speaker 2: eclampsia that happens for Black women.
Speaker 1: Preclamsia is a pregnancy complication that usually occurs during the
Speaker 1: second half of pregnancy, after twenty weeks. If left untreated,
Speaker 1: it can be fatal for the birthing parent and baby,
Speaker 1: so it needs to be carefully monitored and managed until delivery.
Speaker 1: The most common symptoms are high blood pressure and excess
Speaker 1: of protein in your urine. Some people also experience headaches, dizziness, nausea,
Speaker 1: and blurred vision.
Speaker 2: If there are any symptoms that you feel that just
Speaker 2: don't feel great, you're swelling or bloating, or something that's
Speaker 2: very out of the norm for you, make sure that
Speaker 2: you're calling your doctor immediately, but keep a pulse, keep
Speaker 2: a check on your own body, and make sure that
Speaker 2: you know that you're not the only person responsible for
Speaker 2: your health, but that you have places and partners and
Speaker 2: that kind of network that can really support you.
Speaker 1: And thinking about what Simone just said, it really ties
Speaker 1: back to those bottlenecks we talked about earlier, and if
Speaker 1: we think about do you have social support, do you
Speaker 1: have somebody else that's responsible for your health or is
Speaker 1: it just you? Right? Do people believe you when you
Speaker 1: say things? Are you able to get to a doctor
Speaker 1: to address all of these concerns? I mean, because so
Speaker 1: many changes are happening, how do you know if it's
Speaker 1: a normal change that comes with pregnancy or a life
Speaker 1: threatening change? And twenty minutes once a month is not
Speaker 1: a lot. Let's take a break and when we come back,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about what we can do to support birthing people,
Speaker 1: maternal health policy, in the future of maternal health care.
Speaker 1: We're back. We've been talking with Simon Tate about maternal
Speaker 1: health and some of the challenges facing birthing people in
Speaker 1: the US. Next week, we're continuing this conversation because this
Speaker 1: is such a big topic, and we're going to be
Speaker 1: focusing on the historical and political context to help us
Speaker 1: understand these disparities more. All right, so let's get back
Speaker 1: to the lab. Let's talk about maternal health in a
Speaker 1: post birth context. We know that there's a six week
Speaker 1: check up after birth, but what other resources are necessary
Speaker 1: for birthing.
Speaker 2: And the weeks and months after that, there's not really
Speaker 2: anyone checking in on you, which is why it's so
Speaker 2: important to consider having a duela, making sure that you're
Speaker 2: leaning into your support network. I oftentimes suggest to never
Speaker 2: bring flowers. If you're going to visit someone who's just
Speaker 2: had a baby, please lend a hand. That could be
Speaker 2: baby sitting the other kiddos, or cooking a delicious, nutritious meal,
Speaker 2: or doing a load of laundry. Don't make the whole
Speaker 2: thing about the baby. Don't make the whole thing about
Speaker 2: the bump. Ask them how are they doing, and really
Speaker 2: mean it and really listen, because that's so important to
Speaker 2: show up for that person.
Speaker 1: This is such a great point because you know, the
Speaker 1: baby's cute. We're all inside of the baby's heare. We
Speaker 1: want to see it, and you know, be vaccinated before
Speaker 1: you visit the baby, of course, to create that cocoon
Speaker 1: of health and safety. But someone just went through a
Speaker 1: very traumatic experience, not in that oh they're traumatized. Some are,
Speaker 1: but I mean your body, their bodies are going through
Speaker 1: so so much, and some people can't really walk well,
Speaker 1: they can't move around, they can't bend down, they're in
Speaker 1: a lot of pain, they're uncomfort so lending a hand
Speaker 1: is definitely better than bringing in those flowers that are
Speaker 1: gonna die in two days.
Speaker 2: And the other thing that I want us to consider
Speaker 2: here is what happens, what is actually happening to your body.
Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor, I'm not a medical professional, but
Speaker 2: I can tell you as a jewel of myself though
Speaker 2: hormones are all over the place after you have a baby,
Speaker 2: and you cannot control what's happening between your brain and
Speaker 2: your body.
Speaker 1: As soon as the baby and the placenta are delivered,
Speaker 1: progesterone and estrogen decrease. So you might remember those from
Speaker 1: Lab forty one on birth control. Yep, oxytocin surge is
Speaker 1: immediately following birth to compensate for those drops in progesterone
Speaker 1: and estrogen. And so this is what's responsible for what's
Speaker 1: known as like the strong mothering instinct. How they've lifted
Speaker 1: those cars. Yes, or maybe that's adrenaline. That's adrenaline, but
Speaker 1: will allow it, will allow it. But then and you
Speaker 1: still have to consider that oxytocin working itself out of
Speaker 1: the system, and so then you're still going to get
Speaker 1: some of those baby blues in those first few days postpartum,
Speaker 1: And that's just those three hormones. We're not even talking
Speaker 1: about breast milk production and the hormones involved in that.
Speaker 1: We're not even talking about the physical pain as your
Speaker 1: body tries to heal me are even talking about your
Speaker 1: immune system. Right, all your organs got to get back
Speaker 1: to the right location. Baby they lost in there no
Speaker 1: math Cupid shirt on trying to find the right, to
Speaker 1: the left, to the left, to the now kick. Then
Speaker 1: it could take months for hormones to settle to pre
Speaker 1: birth levels, and that can have a lot of big
Speaker 1: effects on your mental health. According to the CDC, about
Speaker 1: one in eight women experienced symptoms of postpartum depression, and
Speaker 1: really that number could be hired earlier. We learned that
Speaker 1: many people just have that one six week follow up
Speaker 1: after birth, So you might not even have captured it, honestly,
Speaker 1: because what if your issues with postpartum depression happen at
Speaker 1: seven weeks or eight weeks, you're not a part of
Speaker 1: that study.
Speaker 2: After having the baby, it's sometimes really hard to focus
Speaker 2: on yourself and how you're feeling. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that's so important to focus on is your mental health.
Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy to try and fit that
Speaker 2: in in between perhaps sleepless nights and a million feedings
Speaker 2: a day, but it is important for you to know
Speaker 2: when you have postpartum mood disorder or the kinds of
Speaker 2: feelings that don't feel safe for you or the baby.
Speaker 2: Those can be very lonely and isolating in dark days
Speaker 2: for people. We also know that that is the number
Speaker 2: one reason why people who've just had babies have thoughts
Speaker 2: of suicide, are harming themselves. So getting this kind of
Speaker 2: help is really important, and even if you don't realize
Speaker 2: it for yourself in the moment, it's important that your
Speaker 2: partner does, your support system whoever is around you.
Speaker 1: That's if somebody is around you. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of assumptions about what birthing looks like, right. We see
Speaker 1: it on television, and it don't always look like that right.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you give birth in you are with a person
Speaker 1: who is abusive. Sometimes it's just you. Sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: you and you're not able to do the necessary things
Speaker 1: to check in with yourself because you never have time off.
Speaker 1: I've never had a child, but it looks time consuming
Speaker 1: and so that becomes the question, how do we consider
Speaker 1: all of these different context in which birthing happens, in
Speaker 1: all of these needs that can look different for different people.
Speaker 1: What type of public health interventions are in place to
Speaker 1: address these issues.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Black Maternal Health Caucus and the
Speaker 2: Black Maternal Health Momnibus, which is a historical legislation. It
Speaker 2: was originally led by our now Vice President Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2: We work very closely with Rep. Lauren Underwood's office on this.
Speaker 2: But the reason why this is so historic is because
Speaker 2: the Momnibus has legislation in it very specifically to increase
Speaker 2: funding around getting doulas in to our communities, our hospitals,
Speaker 2: our healthcare networks, to support black and brown birthing people
Speaker 2: across our country. This is really important in bridging the
Speaker 2: gap in the everyday lives of pregnant and postpartum people.
Speaker 2: Dulas are your emotional and well being best friend that
Speaker 2: you never knew that you needed. I became a dula
Speaker 2: myself when I was thinking about launching poppy Seed Health,
Speaker 2: and it's work that you're called to, but it's also
Speaker 2: really emotional and physical work. For example, my shortest birth
Speaker 2: was twenty seven hours that's not something that people can
Speaker 2: do every single day, and folks don't really realize that,
Speaker 2: plus all the prenatal appointments and all the things that
Speaker 2: you're doing with your clients.
Speaker 1: When you have a doula, there's a sixty five percent
Speaker 1: decrease in interventions that happen when you're going into labor
Speaker 1: and delivery. But I mean, is a doula covered? You know?
Speaker 1: Is that right something that's accessible for everyone. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's on the healthcare plan, they don't talk
Speaker 1: about it. If it is. Air Kabadu is a doula,
Speaker 1: I bet she's expensive. I'll put in a special request.
Speaker 2: For a very very long time, the narrative has been
Speaker 2: that only wealthy women, which dulas are not covered by insurance,
Speaker 2: that can pay somewhere between fifteen hundred to sometimes upwards
Speaker 2: of four to five thousand dollars out of pocket to
Speaker 2: have a doula. The great thing about everyone paying attention
Speaker 2: to doulas now is that at the state level, it's
Speaker 2: very exciting to see so for example, in New York City,
Speaker 2: Mayor Adams just announced that we will be rolling out
Speaker 2: a DULA pilot, which I'm very excited about. To help
Speaker 2: about five hundred families in this pilot for every single
Speaker 2: one of them to have dulas and very specifically for
Speaker 2: those dulas to be making a livable wage.
Speaker 1: So then you know, this sounds great, but are there
Speaker 1: similar programs in other cities.
Speaker 2: One of the other pieces of legislation that was actually
Speaker 2: passed in twenty twenty one was for veteran mothers to
Speaker 2: be able to support them through their pregnancies. The Momnibus
Speaker 2: is so historic because for the first time at the
Speaker 2: federal level, we are focusing on solving for bringing those
Speaker 2: preventable mortality rates from where they today down to zero.
Speaker 1: Protective moms who served act as the Veteran Mother's Act.
Speaker 1: She just reference and that passed the Senate with unanimous
Speaker 1: consent and then the House with four fourteen to nine.
Speaker 1: And the cool thing about this bill is that it
Speaker 1: gives a fifteen million dollar investment from the VA to
Speaker 1: improve maternal health care for birthing veterans and that includes
Speaker 1: parenting classes, nutrition counseling, and breastfeeding support. It will commission
Speaker 1: a first ever comprehensive report on maternal mortality and severe
Speaker 1: maternal morbidity among pregnative postpartum vets, and those are things
Speaker 1: that we have no clue about, and it will additionally
Speaker 1: focus on racial and ethnic disparities in the outcomes for
Speaker 1: those vets too.
Speaker 2: The other thing is that for the first time, VP
Speaker 2: Harris actually had the very first historic Maternal Health Care
Speaker 2: Day at the White House, and they focused on the
Speaker 2: BMNI bus. They also focused on some of these pieces
Speaker 2: of legislation. But it is an open national and public
Speaker 2: conversation about improving maternal health care in our country, especially
Speaker 2: for underserved populations.
Speaker 1: This feels like the right trend. Rihanna has turned our
Speaker 1: eye to maternal health. I mean, maybe for some people
Speaker 1: it wasn't Rihanna. For some people, it was VP Harris's
Speaker 1: policy and some of the other policies that are going through.
Speaker 1: And we're just coming off Black Maternal Health Week, which
Speaker 1: was mid April. I mean, I'm excited. The possibilities feel limitless. Yes,
Speaker 1: Black Maternal Health Week takes place every year from April
Speaker 1: eleventh to April seventeenth, and it was officially recognized by
Speaker 1: the White House on April thirteenth of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: And so I'm excited about what's happening at the national
Speaker 2: level policy takes time, but it also takes politics, and
Speaker 2: that doesn't always mean that things get solved for immediately.
Speaker 2: And for that reason, it is just as important that
Speaker 2: the everyday person has the reason versus in their community
Speaker 2: to be able to have the best possible health outcomes.
Speaker 1: With all that we know now about the maternal health
Speaker 1: care system, some of the disparities that are there, we
Speaker 1: act Amone to share her perfect world for maternal health
Speaker 1: care and her visions for the future.
Speaker 2: I take a bold stance and that maternal health care
Speaker 2: in our country needs to be equitable and accessible for
Speaker 2: every single birthing person, no matter what their socioeconomic background is,
Speaker 2: no matter how they identify, no matter where they live
Speaker 2: in our country, and so it doesn't matter if you're
Speaker 2: a Medicaid or you have commercial insurance. Everyone should be
Speaker 2: able to get the same exact care. And that new
Speaker 2: way forward includes both in person and also virtual care.
Speaker 2: So hybrid health is not only good for the birthing person,
Speaker 2: but it's great for the entire family. We have to
Speaker 2: consider what telehealth looks like in a really innovative way
Speaker 2: to be able to support people exactly where they are
Speaker 2: in the journey it's important to me that the future
Speaker 2: of maternal healthcare for the person feels like they have
Speaker 2: almost no questions about the kind of support, and they
Speaker 2: have no questions about the safety and the trust, and
Speaker 2: that is so important for someone who is going through
Speaker 2: life's biggest moments in their pregnancy, as a first time parent,
Speaker 2: as a partner, and as families.
Speaker 1: I think all of these things are so important for
Speaker 1: understanding all the different ways that we need to serve
Speaker 1: folks who are giving birth, from pregnancy to the birthing
Speaker 1: experience even after it. And it's really incredible what Simone
Speaker 1: has been doing to make a change in the system,
Speaker 1: absolutely because I mean, I think we see a trend
Speaker 1: in a lot of the labs that we done in
Speaker 1: the past is that the policy isn't in place for
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, and one of the major reasons
Speaker 1: being that politicians historically have been white and male, and
Speaker 1: we know that they don't care about stuff that don't
Speaker 1: affect them directly. And so now that we're seeing this
Speaker 1: increased focus on maternal health care and bettering the maternal
Speaker 1: health care space, I think it's really great that you know,
Speaker 1: everyone's voice is heard, black and brown, folks are also
Speaker 1: given a microphone to say the issues that they have,
Speaker 1: people that are living in rural areas, people of lower income.
Speaker 1: Everybody needs to have the opportunity to say their lived
Speaker 1: experience so that we can make this world a better
Speaker 1: place for everyone that is bringing another life into this world.
Speaker 1: All right, it's time for one thing tt I want
Speaker 1: to hear from you. What's your one thing this week?
Speaker 1: My one thing this week is a movie and it's
Speaker 1: called Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. I saw it last
Speaker 1: week mm hmm, and it is phenomenal. It is such
Speaker 1: a good movie. It has such a good story, and
Speaker 1: there was so much thought put into it. It kind
Speaker 1: of lends itself to a little bit of science where
Speaker 1: it kind of references the many World's theorem that some
Speaker 1: people subscribe to, and that's the idea that there's an
Speaker 1: infinite amount of worlds and an infinite amount of like
Speaker 1: use that there are just based off of little minute
Speaker 1: differences in your life, so like depending on you know,
Speaker 1: if you put on a certain shirt a versus another shirt,
Speaker 1: it changes the trajectory of your life, and that, you know,
Speaker 1: creates a different world that becomes. But every iteration in
Speaker 1: between also exists, and it is just such a beautiful
Speaker 1: story and it's so well done, and it really had
Speaker 1: me hooked this movie. It felt like I was inside
Speaker 1: of it, mm like you were invested in the storyline,
Speaker 1: very invested, and then also just like engulfed by the production.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's just really really good in The
Speaker 1: story is good, and so I really enjoyed it. I
Speaker 1: don't watch movies more than once, but I feel like
Speaker 1: I would watch this movie multiple times because it was
Speaker 1: just so well done. Give them all the awards they
Speaker 1: deserve it. I'll have to check it out. That's it
Speaker 1: for Lab sixty two, where you just as shocked as
Speaker 1: me about some of these things we learned about our
Speaker 1: maternal healthcare system. Call us at two zero two five
Speaker 1: six seven seven zero two eight and tell us what
Speaker 1: you thought, or give us an idea for a lab
Speaker 1: we could do this semester. We really like hearing from you.
Speaker 1: That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight,
Speaker 1: And don't forget that there is so much more to
Speaker 1: dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat sheet
Speaker 1: for today's lab, additional links and resources in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Plus you can sign up for our newsletter check it
Speaker 1: out at Dope Labs podcast dot com. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: today's guest expert, Simon Tape. You can find and follow
Speaker 1: her on Twitter at Simone Tate That's s I M
Speaker 1: M O N E T A I T T and
Speaker 1: learn more about her work at Poppyseed Help. And you
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and Instagram at dough Blabs podcast.
Speaker 1: T T's on Twitter and Instagram at d R Underscore
Speaker 1: T s h O. And you can find Zakiya at
Speaker 1: z said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production
Speaker 1: from Mega Owned Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Radlett
Speaker 1: Mask and Lydia Smith of Wave Runner Studios. Our associate
Speaker 1: producer from Mega Oh Media is Brianna Garrett. Editing in
Speaker 1: sound design by Rob Smerciak, mixing by Hannes Brown. Original
Speaker 1: music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugier
Speaker 1: from Spotify, Executive producer Corin Gilliard and creative producer Miguel Contreras.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Shirley Ramos, Jess Borison, yasmine A, Fifi Kamu, Elolia,
Speaker 1: Till krat Key and Brian Marquis Executive producers from mega
Speaker 1: Own Media Group r us t T Show, Dia and
Speaker 1: Zakiah Wattley.