Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by making the
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Speaker 1: to learn more story. Hey everyone, Happy holidays from Team Sideways.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's Christmas Eve. It's Christmas Eve. It is
Speaker 1: here's open. Everybody gets all the cool presence they're dreaming of,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a nuclear weapon or or world
Speaker 1: peace whichever. Yeah, what just come on. If you listened,
Speaker 1: if you've been listening to the show for more than
Speaker 1: a year, I guess at this point you know, Or
Speaker 1: if you've binge listened, I guess it's all of our episodes.
Speaker 1: You know that we like to do uh themed shows
Speaker 1: around pretty much every holiday of the year. You do
Speaker 1: Halloween themes, and we do Christmas themes or winter holiday themes.
Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of Christmas mysteries there are,
Speaker 1: and so this this year we decided to try to
Speaker 1: take on a big one, and that is we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about Frosty A K. A the Snowman. Yea, indeed, Frosty.
Speaker 1: I assume most of our listeners have heard of Frosty,
Speaker 1: but if you haven't, here's the skinny. In fifty, a
Speaker 1: song was released about this supposedly enigmatic creature. Since the original,
Speaker 1: there have been many, many, many recordings of the song
Speaker 1: the original song. Um, lots of movies, yeah, lots of movies,
Speaker 1: lots of books, lots of merchandising partnerships with the Frosty franchise,
Speaker 1: and popular items like the holiday version of The Wears
Speaker 1: Waldo books. McDonald's did a partnership with Frosty for a while.
Speaker 1: Frosty is big, Yeah he is, And officially the franchise
Speaker 1: of Frosty Story is owned jointly by DreamWorks Animation and
Speaker 1: with Warner Brothers TV. But we're not going to really
Speaker 1: talk about that because the thing is that's kind of
Speaker 1: the sanitized version of you know, the Disney version of
Speaker 1: the Fairy Tales. The real character appears to be a
Speaker 1: bit darker. Yeah, we it's it's kind of like the
Speaker 1: short version. It's like, we kind of know, the cliff
Speaker 1: note version of Stories Life. And instead we're going to
Speaker 1: go kind of back to say fairy tales before the
Speaker 1: grand Brothers even got on to what they were, what
Speaker 1: they really were. Yeah, and that's what we're going to
Speaker 1: do with Frosty. Um, because you know, we don't we
Speaker 1: don't really know who he is. I mean, they say
Speaker 1: that magic made a snowman come to life, but I
Speaker 1: have a hard time believing that. Yeah, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: And even if it wasn't my cat, where did the
Speaker 1: magic hat come from? Yeah? Exactly, So, yeah, you do.
Speaker 1: You guys just want to jump into theories on how
Speaker 1: he existed, really, because there are a couple of different
Speaker 1: theory sections will do, right, Yeah, they're really kind, there's
Speaker 1: a whole Yeah, we've got a ton of theory, so
Speaker 1: we should probably start there. Yeah, so why don't we
Speaker 1: just dive right in? To steal a term from Steve,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm up because I have theory number one,
Speaker 1: which is, when you read the story of Frosty, you'll
Speaker 1: you'll notice that the whole story comes from a kind
Speaker 1: of a very small locale and then it spread really
Speaker 1: kind of virally over one or two winters. Well, the
Speaker 1: whole thing about Frosty and all these crazy things he does.
Speaker 1: To me, it's pretty simple, is that he didn't actually exist. Instead,
Speaker 1: he was kind of a group hallucination. What okay, what
Speaker 1: what does everybody do at the holiday season when they
Speaker 1: go to where Christmas parties your family get together? Is
Speaker 1: what a drink? Exactly okay? And Edna knows how to
Speaker 1: make great eggnog because she loves to put a lot
Speaker 1: of booze in it. No, but there are some teetotalers
Speaker 1: who don't believe in putting the booze in, and they
Speaker 1: evidently may have been the ones that we're aging it.
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of a situation that's very similar
Speaker 1: to what's the bread mold is ergo? So same thing.
Speaker 1: All these people go to this giant party and they
Speaker 1: all drink this rancid eggnog and they all hallucinate. There's
Speaker 1: probably one guy who was in a top hat and
Speaker 1: a scarf running around having a high old time while
Speaker 1: he was stoned out of his brain too, and they
Speaker 1: all would he's a snowman, it's so crazy. And then
Speaker 1: he took his hat off and he didn't look the
Speaker 1: same anymore. Story solved. So that is that is where
Speaker 1: I think the simple version may have come from. And
Speaker 1: I mean there's a few things where you you see
Speaker 1: some stuff about the effects of this mold. But well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we talked to it when we talked about with the dancing.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it's also the Mary Celeste. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: people see some weird stuff, like everybody would have had
Speaker 1: to have had it, right, if it's a big party,
Speaker 1: everybody's having it. But then also, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: the whole prosty thing, it didn't just go on for
Speaker 1: the space of a few hours at a party. Is
Speaker 1: like it went on for a long time and Frosty
Speaker 1: was hanging out for a while, right, Well, have you
Speaker 1: ever heard of a thing called a flashback? Yeah, these
Speaker 1: people may have been like an acid trip kind of
Speaker 1: having a little flashback, and so they all think, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see in human memory is so fallible that it
Speaker 1: may have been that they thought it was days when
Speaker 1: they were really just kind of Yeah. So that's that's
Speaker 1: my I've you know, had nights where it's been like, man,
Speaker 1: it seems like we've been hanging out for like twelve
Speaker 1: hours and it's been twenty minutes. Yeah, okay, okay, that's
Speaker 1: a doll party. Yeah. Yeah, So that's my that's my
Speaker 1: first hit. Theory about it. Okay, all right, well I
Speaker 1: have another theory, um, but that's not the magic hat.
Speaker 1: Let's let's consider the magic hat and why it's so wrong.
Speaker 1: First of all, as as Devon has already said, where
Speaker 1: did it come from? As an animated device, it's got
Speaker 1: some pretty serious shortcomings. Frosty, Frosty was around for a while.
Speaker 1: And supposing you're Frosty and you're crossing the street and
Speaker 1: a puff of wind knocks the magic hat off your head,
Speaker 1: and now you're back to being an inanimate object in
Speaker 1: the middle of the street, and of course the car
Speaker 1: is going to come along in three seconds. How Murphy's
Speaker 1: alot works. Yeah, so markin, Yeah, he was around for
Speaker 1: a while, and and you would think the hat would
Speaker 1: be like getting knocked off his head all the time,
Speaker 1: unless he had like a cylindrical snow dome, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, Like the top of his head
Speaker 1: had a cylinder in it that the top hat fit on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be that would stop the wind issue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but here's here's another there's another a reason to not
Speaker 1: believe it. And let's just say if they if these
Speaker 1: things existed, or just one of them is somebody would
Speaker 1: have made a five hundred foot tall city destroying snowman
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and we've never seen one because
Speaker 1: it's it is all little kids that are around Frosty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and little kids love to make that kind of yeah
Speaker 1: they do. Oh yeah, I mean I would make it.
Speaker 1: I would make the biggest snowman possible. So I think
Speaker 1: that Frosty was actually something else entirely, and there is
Speaker 1: actually some support for this in the town Moved, of
Speaker 1: all places. He's inanimate, then it comes to life, and
Speaker 1: that sounds an awful out Like a golem. I don't
Speaker 1: know what am is. I mean, I know what goalm is,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what a go yeah golem is.
Speaker 1: In Jewish folklore, it's uh, it's when somebody wants to
Speaker 1: make a creature that can be sort of a helper,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, or a defender. They can put
Speaker 1: one together out of like mud or dust or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then and then if you know that, if you
Speaker 1: know the right magic words, so you can actually turn
Speaker 1: this into an animated creature. I want to say it
Speaker 1: was there. It's always there's something that's always written on
Speaker 1: the forehead night. Yeah, I can't remember what it is.
Speaker 1: But that's how they bring it to life. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so a golm can be really made of anything, even snow,
Speaker 1: and then you have your you have your little helper
Speaker 1: defend or whatever. So so Frosty could have been made
Speaker 1: of snow and been animated to help. He didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't really actually do much. He didn't do much
Speaker 1: other than playing with the kids. It seems like, although
Speaker 1: I guess around the holidays, that's kind of what you want, right,
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, kids, get out of the house, go play.
Speaker 1: I have so much work to do. Is that not
Speaker 1: a thing? Yeah, no, that definitely is the thing. But
Speaker 1: here's my problem with the steery Joe is that the
Speaker 1: goal doesn't speak. Yeah, Frosty nattered on continually. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is according to the story anyway. Yeah, he did speak,
Speaker 1: so that that is a kind of a weakness in
Speaker 1: the theory. Although you never know. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: like zombies and the movies have have sort of morphed
Speaker 1: over the years and now they move fast. Oh they
Speaker 1: used to be slow and bumbly and now they Olympic speeds. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: So different attributes they yeah, they you know, in different ways.
Speaker 1: And stuff. Yeah, so the goal and may have evolved
Speaker 1: just like zombies did. Possibly, yeah, possible. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's my theory. I'm sticking with it. Okay, Well, prepared
Speaker 1: to decide otherwise because I actually did my research, uh
Speaker 1: and found found some experts here and I, um, while
Speaker 1: you know, I did my homework or I'm lazy, whichever,
Speaker 1: How did you find these guys? Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: did a little digging. Um, I found some historic records
Speaker 1: and you know, somebody suggested that these guys might know
Speaker 1: what they were talking about. So, um, I actually gave
Speaker 1: him a call. I did recording. Can you want to
Speaker 1: just um, you just want to listen to? Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is Justin and errand from the Generation one. Oh hey, guys,
Speaker 1: it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Who is this really
Speaker 1: you guys, It's Devin. It's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways.
Speaker 1: You know that other podcast that you get compared to
Speaker 1: all the time, and we get compared to you all
Speaker 1: the time, and we're like best friends. Now apparently I
Speaker 1: I need your help. I hear you guys have some
Speaker 1: information on Frosty a k a. The Snowman. Can you
Speaker 1: tell me about him? Like who he was or anything
Speaker 1: about him. So do we have, like, what evidence do
Speaker 1: we have on Frosty the Snowman. I I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't really do very much research. I kind of
Speaker 1: did a little digging and then found you guys, so
Speaker 1: can you can can you guys help me out here?
Speaker 1: We don't have a corn cob pipe or a hat,
Speaker 1: so some things are lost to history, so there's no
Speaker 1: physical evidence now the physical evidence has gone. What we
Speaker 1: do have, though, is a song. If you remember, not
Speaker 1: too long ago, we cover the McMartin pre school scandal
Speaker 1: and a song figured pretty heavily into that case. So
Speaker 1: here I think this song, Frosty the Snowman, is even
Speaker 1: more important to this case than the other song was
Speaker 1: to the McMartin that that song was written in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen fifties. Maybe the lyrics will tell us something
Speaker 1: about this, So it goes, Frosty the Snowman was a jolly,
Speaker 1: happy soul, so we know he's jolly and he has
Speaker 1: a soul, so he's a being or he's alive right,
Speaker 1: with a corn cob pipe and a button nose and
Speaker 1: two eyes made out of coal. Well coal back then,
Speaker 1: back in the fifties, you had coal mining and you
Speaker 1: had coal burning furnaces. So I guess this is sort
Speaker 1: of his trying to relate to the common man, the workerman,
Speaker 1: the blue collar worker, right, hard working man. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta give respect to Frosty already, right, Yeah. And he's
Speaker 1: got a button nose. I mean that's clothing, you know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's good for a sniffing clothing. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Frosty the Snowman is a fairy tale. They say he
Speaker 1: was made of snow, but the children know how he
Speaker 1: came to life one day, so the children know, how
Speaker 1: did they know? How were they being questioned about this?
Speaker 1: Who was questioning the children? I don't know that they're
Speaker 1: being questioned. It almost sounds like it's a secret they're
Speaker 1: supposed to keep the children know, the adults do not know.
Speaker 1: That's a little suspicious, very suspicious. Now I'm not feeling
Speaker 1: so good about Frosty now, okay, Uh. There must have
Speaker 1: been some magic and that old silk hat they found
Speaker 1: magic hat to entice children. Kids love magic, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's magic mushroom silk road, I don't know. For when
Speaker 1: they placed it on his head, he began to dance
Speaker 1: around the magic hat induced is dancing could be another
Speaker 1: drug reference. I'm not sure. Well, now it really is
Speaker 1: starting to sound like drugs. Okay, it was written in
Speaker 1: the fifties, right, well, what would people think that was
Speaker 1: before before I'm not supposed to dance like that right now.
Speaker 1: It was a little taboo. I mean, this is before
Speaker 1: footluc even. Oh, Frosty the Snowman was a lie as
Speaker 1: he could be. And the children say he could laugh
Speaker 1: and play just the same as you and me. So
Speaker 1: he's identifying with them. He's saying, hey, that's cool. You know,
Speaker 1: I may be big, but I'm one of you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it is a little weird for this adult male
Speaker 1: guy to be only playing with children. And he's kind
Speaker 1: of blue collar. I mean, if he's Michael Jackson, that's
Speaker 1: one thing. But I don't know if Frosty has enough
Speaker 1: money to be playing with little kids and get away
Speaker 1: with it. Uh, Frosty clumsy as he could be. See
Speaker 1: him lopping along off he goes on an icicle spree
Speaker 1: with a happy song. Rosty the snow Man, he's clumsy,
Speaker 1: he likes to trip and fall. Uh, maybe put his
Speaker 1: hands somewhere. They don't need to be. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's we we got problems. He's falling down
Speaker 1: or falling into people. Yeah, it's pretty clumsy. He knew
Speaker 1: the sun was hot that day, so he said, let's
Speaker 1: run and we'll have some fun now before I melt away.
Speaker 1: He knew the sun was hot that day. The heat
Speaker 1: is on. The heat is on, but the heat is
Speaker 1: onto him. Yeah, he knows his time what these children
Speaker 1: is limited. Let's just say that. Down to the village
Speaker 1: with a broomstick in his hand. Okay, there's more children
Speaker 1: in the village. Possible weapon involved or a spanking tool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: running here and there all around the square, saying catch
Speaker 1: me if you can. That's cute. He led them dow.
Speaker 1: He's luring them. Yeah, like, oh, let's play this game.
Speaker 1: Catch me, catch me and run down the basement. Oh
Speaker 1: oh yeah, they're grabbing t he he yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this isn't good so far man. He led them down
Speaker 1: the streets of town, right to the traffic cop and
Speaker 1: only paused a moment when he heard him haller, stop,
Speaker 1: Frosty has just been given a lawful command by a
Speaker 1: police officer, and a police officer if he suspects that
Speaker 1: crime is being committed. He has the right to stop
Speaker 1: you and terry frisk you and terrogate you. He has
Speaker 1: the right, and you have to obey his command. So
Speaker 1: he sees Frosty with a group of children that he's
Speaker 1: not related to. He's not their guardian. Frosty the Snowman
Speaker 1: had to hurry on his way, but he waved goodbye, saying,
Speaker 1: don't you cry, I'll be back again someday. I think
Speaker 1: Frosty just refused a lawful and from an officer, and
Speaker 1: we could consider him fleeing from a scene or evading arrest.
Speaker 1: He didn't stop, right, Well, the idea is that he's
Speaker 1: not planning to stop, but he could be caught. And
Speaker 1: I think he's telling everyone don't worry one way or another.
Speaker 1: I'll work my way back. I'll be back. Well, whether
Speaker 1: he's caught or whether he gets away. Okay, But the
Speaker 1: next line is thumpety thump, thump, thumpity thump thump. Now
Speaker 1: is this the sound of the nightstick hitting him? Well,
Speaker 1: it's either that or you know the sound a heavy
Speaker 1: If you make a big heavy snow block or something
Speaker 1: and throw it at the snow, it makes the thump. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there's a battle here. He's getting slammed down with concrete.
Speaker 1: Either this is a really vicious battle, either the cops
Speaker 1: winning or Frosty's winning. But I think with the thumpety
Speaker 1: thump thump, maybe I'm reading too much, but to me,
Speaker 1: it sounds like someone is consisting stantly winning here. So
Speaker 1: either the Night's Stick is working or Frosty is working.
Speaker 1: And if if I had to guess, it's the Night's Stick,
Speaker 1: I think that's if this has a happy ending. Well,
Speaker 1: it says, look at Frosty go. Is that to jail? No,
Speaker 1: look at Frosty go, to me implies that Frosty is
Speaker 1: moving under his own powers. So to me, I think
Speaker 1: maybe he sort of separated into his three parts. And
Speaker 1: then it went sumbody thump thump down onto the police
Speaker 1: officer and then he's like knocked out. And then watch
Speaker 1: Frosty go. He's heading for the hills. He's running for
Speaker 1: the hill. Well it says thumpty thump thump over the
Speaker 1: hills of snow. I mean, I really like the movie Scarface,
Speaker 1: and there was hills of snow in that movie. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what was the original question. Were we supposed
Speaker 1: to I don't know what. Frosty just doesn't sound like
Speaker 1: a good person to me. Why Frosty, why did he
Speaker 1: do it? He shall we have we have an idea
Speaker 1: of why he did it, but it makes us uncomfortable
Speaker 1: even to think about it. Right, Yeah, Frosty is not
Speaker 1: so nice now, no? Right? No, So I hope that
Speaker 1: answer answers your guys questions, and thanks for asking, and
Speaker 1: you all have a merry Christmas. Yeah, what's in the pipe? Frosty?
Speaker 1: Thanks you guys. Um, that was really helpful. Have a
Speaker 1: good Christmas. Merry Christmas. Say hi to Val and the
Speaker 1: kids for me. Show off so they seem to know
Speaker 1: what they're talking about, right, sort of a little. I mean,
Speaker 1: they bring up some good points, I will give them.
Speaker 1: That song sounds like he could have been an actual guy.
Speaker 1: What it's suggesting that Frosty was some sort of a
Speaker 1: per for that he was a drug pusher or what. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that he was like a like a drug guy, like
Speaker 1: a drug type guy. Is this why I've suddenly noticed
Speaker 1: that both of you have been saying Frosty a k a.
Speaker 1: The Snowman, that's his name, Yeah, as in the snowman,
Speaker 1: as in you know that was his code name as
Speaker 1: in blow. Yeah, okay, I did not know that part. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: I know one of the kids like him so much.
Speaker 1: They have so much energy, So I guess, um, I
Speaker 1: can do we feel like we need to come to
Speaker 1: a consensus in the room about what Frosty was in
Speaker 1: order to go forward or do? Are we okay with
Speaker 1: just thinking different things? I don't know that it does
Speaker 1: any good because the fact of the matter is is
Speaker 1: the media industrial complex is going to push the he
Speaker 1: was a snowman thing and it doesn't really matter. It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to us. I guess it matters to us
Speaker 1: and our listeners. But let's face it, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: no matter what truth we come up with, it will
Speaker 1: be Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think it's probably
Speaker 1: worth coming up with the truth. I mean, I I
Speaker 1: think that um, guys from generation why, they definitely know
Speaker 1: their stuff. And yeah it was but you know, they
Speaker 1: said that Frosty was kind of a pusher kind of guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it appears to me that he actually was a snowman.
Speaker 1: I don't have animated snowman. I just don't. All right, well,
Speaker 1: and that's not you know, he can be a snowman
Speaker 1: and still be a drug pusher. That's true. It could
Speaker 1: be a snowman dealing snow. So okay, well then I
Speaker 1: mean what evidence do we I mean, what do we
Speaker 1: know about Frosty? What happened to Frosty? Well, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: according to the song, he ran a foul of the
Speaker 1: of the town's traffic cop and then left town, promising
Speaker 1: to be back someday. But of course, you know, in town,
Speaker 1: out of town, sooner or later, the temperature goes up,
Speaker 1: Frosty melts. Um. You know, so you couldn't have survived
Speaker 1: that season. Yeah, just seasonal change, seasonal change. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: but so that is one that you know that's kind
Speaker 1: of the prevalent theory, is that temperature rise and frost emails. Actually,
Speaker 1: you guys, Um, when I was talking to Justin and Aaron,
Speaker 1: they actually mentioned that they Yeah, the gen Y guys,
Speaker 1: they they know someone who might actually have kind of
Speaker 1: the inside scoop about what actually happened to Frosty. Um,
Speaker 1: I have a stone over. Do you want to give
Speaker 1: him a call? Okay, so wait, but this guy, this
Speaker 1: guy is really if I remember this because I saw
Speaker 1: these emails going back. Yeah, then this guy. He's a
Speaker 1: little squirrely about who he is. Okay, but like, okay,
Speaker 1: but we have it's a podcast, we can edit. Okay.
Speaker 1: So so because I know that I saw this email,
Speaker 1: is that he wanted to be completely anonymous, So we're
Speaker 1: gonna keep this anonymous for him. Yeah, of course we are. Okay,
Speaker 1: so so you but you have to edit it. So
Speaker 1: let's just call him up right now. Okay, Hey, Mike,
Speaker 1: that's me. Oh hey Mike, it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Um.
Speaker 1: We email back and forth a couple of times. UM,
Speaker 1: we are giving you a call recording right now. UM,
Speaker 1: hopefully that's okay. I know you're well, we'll edit. It's fine. Um,
Speaker 1: but we've we have some questions about Frosty because you
Speaker 1: said that you had some infune that you would talk
Speaker 1: to us about it. Now there's we've got a bunch
Speaker 1: of questions. Yeah, as like, as you know, we were
Speaker 1: covering the story of Frosty a k a. The Snowman,
Speaker 1: and uh you know, as you are well aware of
Speaker 1: the standards, story is that Frosty was done in by
Speaker 1: a temperature change and he essentially melted. But I've heard
Speaker 1: rumors on Redd at in other places that Frosty perhaps
Speaker 1: met us in a different way. Yeah, listen, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm only talking to you guys because I don't want
Speaker 1: you know, I just I don't think this is right
Speaker 1: what they did to that boy. Um do you mean Frosty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta promise me, though, you're gonna keep my name
Speaker 1: out of this, because if they did that to him,
Speaker 1: imagine what they're gonna do to me. You know, I
Speaker 1: have house of family, a dog. We will we won't,
Speaker 1: we won't let it out. Yeah, we'll delete your any
Speaker 1: references to your name and everything else in Sword and
Speaker 1: Scale podcast. Okay, so what's what's going on? What happened? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the the official answers that nobody really knows
Speaker 1: for sure. Um, what we do know is that on
Speaker 1: July one, the day after Jimmy Hoffa was killed, a
Speaker 1: fourteen year old boy by the name of Sammy Johnson
Speaker 1: he was skateboarding when he found a carrot near an
Speaker 1: industrial food packing warehouse just outside of Detroit. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: what about two little lumps of coal? Well, I'll get
Speaker 1: to that. The carrot was just sitting there among a
Speaker 1: bunch of boxes. I mean, how do you explain that.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later they did find two pieces of coal
Speaker 1: near the Alameda Chili cook off. How far away from
Speaker 1: the Carrot Well, that's on the other side of the country.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. But they were just sitting there next
Speaker 1: to a pile of logs. After four days they found
Speaker 1: a couple of twigs or the home of seventy six
Speaker 1: year old World War One veteran by the name of
Speaker 1: Frank Buckles, just one outside and he found him there. Um,
Speaker 1: those were his arms. Well that's what some people think.
Speaker 1: It was in western Pennsylvania. It was a bungalow and
Speaker 1: the arms or twigs were just as scarted there like
Speaker 1: a pile of trash. Now you tell me who mutilates
Speaker 1: a body like that and leaves parts of it all
Speaker 1: over the country. Uh, you know, if you ask me,
Speaker 1: there's only one outfit that could do it, and that's
Speaker 1: the Mob. Do you have any proof of this? What
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you is that next to each of
Speaker 1: these grizzly body parts there was a puddle, almost like
Speaker 1: they were trying to send a message. You know. Whatever
Speaker 1: Frosty did, he was weighing over his head. So how
Speaker 1: did Frosty get involved? With the mob. He was doing
Speaker 1: some low level stuff at first, you know, collecting bets. Uh,
Speaker 1: he was a bookie for a while in the Fuller
Speaker 1: Park area. Everything was working out, you know, pretty good
Speaker 1: for him. He had a couple of ceedy clients though,
Speaker 1: and one of them decided he wasn't gonna pay up.
Speaker 1: I mean, Frosty is a cold dude. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: even though he has got that bit of an ominous
Speaker 1: stare at him with those beady black eyes, there wasn't
Speaker 1: much to back it up. I mean, with those twig
Speaker 1: like arms and not a lot of upper body strength.
Speaker 1: Not really now, I couldn't really hold it down, you know.
Speaker 1: The funny The funny thing is, I remember old Frosty.
Speaker 1: There was this one time at the Green Door tavern.
Speaker 1: He he got pissed drunk and uh, he down half
Speaker 1: a bottle of jack. He was going around challenging bar
Speaker 1: patrons to an arm wrestling match. That worked out well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he got his ass kicked. So so I think after that,
Speaker 1: you know, he started having some problems with the boss um.
Speaker 1: He just seemed to keep messing up after that, Like
Speaker 1: he couldn't do anything right. Uh, it was just a
Speaker 1: matter of time before he got what was coming to him,
Speaker 1: and we all saw it coming from a mile away.
Speaker 1: So so what was he? He's a creepy mother he was? Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: The question is is um? You know? Was he? Uh?
Speaker 1: Was it Aliens? Was he? What's what's the what's the
Speaker 1: what's the Jewish creature? The golm? Was he a gollum? Perhaps?
Speaker 1: Dude said he was from Jersey? I mean, okay, so
Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't a snowman. Well, I think he
Speaker 1: was from Slovakia, to be honest with you. So I
Speaker 1: don't know what that makes him, or maybe Romania or
Speaker 1: Bulgaria or one of the e s. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't really know. But you know, he would get lit
Speaker 1: up and sing these weird drinking songs from some Eastern
Speaker 1: European language and it would creep everybody out. Plus the
Speaker 1: dumb hat. He would always wear it, you know, even
Speaker 1: at the time when everybody was wearing hats. It was unfashionable.
Speaker 1: Everybody worked for Doras, and he insisted on wearing that
Speaker 1: stupid top hat. That and that's scarf scarf. And he's
Speaker 1: definitely an out of town er, you know. But you
Speaker 1: know in answering your question about whether he was a snowman.
Speaker 1: Rumor has it he was just an alcoholic. Uh. He
Speaker 1: up himself warm on those cold winter nights somehow, probably
Speaker 1: with a bottle of Scotch and a pipe filled with
Speaker 1: a little hashish. I don't know. Seventies seventies were weird, man,
Speaker 1: he had. They had all kinds of things back then.
Speaker 1: They had freaking genetically modified reindeer with glowing noses, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember that. Yeah, they had a snow wookie and uh,
Speaker 1: just a lot of drugs. So Frosty tried them all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they I have heard definitely that his name actually
Speaker 1: kind of had two meetings, you know, the Snowman and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and that's probably why it was so
Speaker 1: popular with the kids in the neighborhood. Was passing out
Speaker 1: lots of pretty blow. Well, he definitely had some on them.
Speaker 1: I can guarantee that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, thanks
Speaker 1: thanks for a green to talk to us, and thanks
Speaker 1: for the info. I guess, uh yeah, no problem. Just
Speaker 1: remember just keep Mike from sort of scale out of it.
Speaker 1: I was never here. This is totally off the record,
Speaker 1: and I don't want I don't want snowman body parts
Speaker 1: showing up here in Florida? Are your body parts showing
Speaker 1: up here? Yeah? Well we'll definitely edit your name out
Speaker 1: of this. Thanks guys, Hey, thanks you, thank you for
Speaker 1: your time. Thanks for the information. No problem. Uh wow,
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere that I didn't that's an ugly anything.
Speaker 1: Our emails did not. I didn't think that was gonna know,
Speaker 1: I don't think he wanted to commit anything to pen
Speaker 1: and papers. Yeah, I understand why, now, Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this is big stuff. Okay, okay, so there's that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so Frosty done in by the mob apparently, but there's
Speaker 1: another theory out there that he was not. He was
Speaker 1: not done in by the mob. He was done in
Speaker 1: by a mob. All different story. I know. This kind
Speaker 1: of contradicts our anonymous sources story, but actually in reality
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It appears that there were actually two Frosties.
Speaker 1: Yeah I know, but one of them apparently wasn't imposture,
Speaker 1: which is which I'm not really sure. I'm going to
Speaker 1: say this other Frosty will call him Frosty too. He
Speaker 1: did give his name his Frosty. This is, at least
Speaker 1: according to the guys over at two frosties dot Com,
Speaker 1: which has some interesting stuff on it, according to According
Speaker 1: to two frostis in late fall, the same year that
Speaker 1: the original Frosty showed up in town, word got back
Speaker 1: to the authorities of a bizarre animated snowman, and by authorities,
Speaker 1: I don't mean that traffic copy yielded at Frosty. I'm
Speaker 1: walking about the men in black of course, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, of course. They were concerned that Frosty
Speaker 1: was possibly an alien or or a robotic alien probe
Speaker 1: disguised as a snowman, so they decided to bring him
Speaker 1: in for some questioning. On one night in early November,
Speaker 1: an unmarked van squeezed to a halt in front of Frosty,
Speaker 1: and five guys dressed in dark clothing jumped out, threw
Speaker 1: a blanket over Frosty, and buntled him into the back
Speaker 1: of the van. There was only one witness to this,
Speaker 1: which is one of the local kids, and nobody took
Speaker 1: him seriously when he said that a snowman had been kidnapped. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a snowman, big deal. Yeah. The feed stock Frosty to
Speaker 1: a secure refrigerator facility outside of Schenectady in New York
Speaker 1: and held him there for over a month. Uh. And
Speaker 1: by the way, this puts the final nail in the
Speaker 1: coffin of the magic hat theory, because when it took
Speaker 1: him in, they took his personal effects. It took the hat,
Speaker 1: the scarf, the pipe. Yeah, it's it's weird. I Uh,
Speaker 1: I was looking at those we posted those photos in
Speaker 1: the links, and it was it was interesting. It wasn't
Speaker 1: what I was expecting, No, not at all. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: but this is why they were too fraught there. Just
Speaker 1: believe they were too Frosties because while he was held
Speaker 1: for well over a month in this secure facility and um,
Speaker 1: at the same time, the other Frosty was out frolicking
Speaker 1: with the kids, and so it couldn't have been two
Speaker 1: places at once. So that's why we think that there
Speaker 1: was a second impostor Frosty. Yeah, yeah, okay, well back
Speaker 1: back to his story. Uh, the interrogation techniques escalated as
Speaker 1: time went by because Frosty kept saying that he didn't
Speaker 1: know anything. And I'm pretty sure Frosty really didn't know anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was just snow man for guy's sake. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They started that with isolation and sleep deprivation. Frosty Frosty
Speaker 1: wasn't talking. Fed weren't taking that for an answer, so
Speaker 1: they started threatening again. They're threatened to turn up the thermostat.
Speaker 1: They're threatened to turn him into snowballs. They's threatened to
Speaker 1: turn him into the beginnings of an igloo and Frosty. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was kind of ly and Frosty still it's just said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what an alien is, which is amazing because most
Speaker 1: people under that level of torture will start making something
Speaker 1: up just to appea. I guess it's almost suspicious. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Finally a frustration one of the one day,
Speaker 1: one of the agents leaned over the table and burned
Speaker 1: Frosty with a cigarette. But you can't what what do
Speaker 1: you mean? No, I mean like you can't you can't
Speaker 1: smoke indoor. I mean how long ago was this? It
Speaker 1: was long. There was decades ago. So you can't just
Speaker 1: like burn a guy with a cigarette. Apparently you can? Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you can't, Yeah, yes, it's that guy. Kind of
Speaker 1: a rise out of Frosty, they decided they decided to
Speaker 1: go with that technique for a while, so they all
Speaker 1: live up unfiltered Lucky strikes cigarettes and started burning poor Frosty.
Speaker 1: And of course she's still and it's well documented. But
Speaker 1: if you go to two Frosty's dot com, they have
Speaker 1: a picture of the interrogation room right after the Frosty
Speaker 1: was sent back to his cell and there's drops of
Speaker 1: water on the floor from his burns. It means it's
Speaker 1: just too Warner listeners. They are they're hard to look at. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah they are. They are kind of graphic. Um and uh,
Speaker 1: but even the torture didn't get anything from him. They
Speaker 1: considered water boarding, but it's kind of hard to water
Speaker 1: boards somebody in a refrigerated facility. It's the water freezes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so and it's hard to I can't imagine how easy
Speaker 1: it would be the up water board of snowman anyway.
Speaker 1: Would that be ice boarding at that point? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, just ba bashing his head into a sheet
Speaker 1: of ice. Yeah. Now that they didn't they didn't do
Speaker 1: the water boarding. They finally actually decided that Frosty actually
Speaker 1: didn't know anything and that he wasn't an alien. On
Speaker 1: top of that, the holidays were coming up and they
Speaker 1: all needed to do some shopping and plus they were
Speaker 1: tired of being cold all the time, so that job
Speaker 1: had to be terrible. Yeah. So Frosty was dumped off
Speaker 1: just a couple of blocks from where he was kidnapped,
Speaker 1: and things went back to normal for a while. But
Speaker 1: this frost you'll call him Frosty two, Frosty two, was
Speaker 1: kind of a hard luck snowman. In the end, things
Speaker 1: really went south for him. On the evening of February ninety,
Speaker 1: a five year old boy, Robert Julius Irving, was found
Speaker 1: strangled to death. Yeah. Another young boy at Theodore, Robert Bundy,
Speaker 1: said that he had seen Irving with Frosty two an
Speaker 1: hour or so before the body was found. What does
Speaker 1: that name sound familiar? Theodore Robert? But I don't know, No,
Speaker 1: it does sound familiar. To look it up. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah. Uh So, an angry crowd of townsfolked
Speaker 1: armed with matches, propane torches, cigarette lighters, and soldering irons,
Speaker 1: surrounded Frosty, who had first pretended to be an an
Speaker 1: inanimate object. When he saw the lighters and torches, he
Speaker 1: started to plead his innocence, but it didn't do him
Speaker 1: any good. Soon Frosty was reduced to a puddle. Not
Speaker 1: long after that to a frozen puddle, and the town folks,
Speaker 1: the townsfolk all decided that word of this must never
Speaker 1: get out, and so they vowed never to speak of
Speaker 1: it again, and the local Chamber of Commerce covered the
Speaker 1: whole thing up just like in Jaws. That's going to
Speaker 1: be terrible. I mean, the streets would run with water.
Speaker 1: That strets. We're running with water, Yes, it was. It
Speaker 1: was sad and why mob justice shouldn't be allowed to happen? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, the town spoke. We're all spattered with water
Speaker 1: with frosties, yeah, across these prostitutes. I can't imagine how
Speaker 1: many showers it would take to get that off. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, and how do you how do you
Speaker 1: get the water stains out of your clothes? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So anyway, life kind of went back to normal. We're
Speaker 1: kind of got out. A few inquisitive reporters showed up,
Speaker 1: but they were met with basically a wall of silence
Speaker 1: and that and one especially persistent one was treated to
Speaker 1: a blanket party and on a wedgean Pretty soon the
Speaker 1: inquiries died off. It was apparent the townsfolks were just
Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about it, and the cover
Speaker 1: up was very comprehensive. Even the Wikipedia page has been sanitized. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody really knows about this anymore. No, no, no, it's not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's it. So I guess this is another mystery
Speaker 1: about Frosty too. So was he a murderer? Yeah? Was
Speaker 1: he was a murder? What do you guys think? Well,
Speaker 1: it depends on Wait are we talking about Frosty a
Speaker 1: k to Snowman, the first one or the second one
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Yeah, well, you know, it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to say which one, which one was done
Speaker 1: in by the mob, and which one was done in
Speaker 1: by the mob of townsfolk. That there could be a
Speaker 1: little confusion there. That's that's my problem is that when
Speaker 1: you see the photos of the Snowman, I can't tell
Speaker 1: because there's snow, which one is which. No. I mean,
Speaker 1: they both were the same hat, and they they're shaped identically,
Speaker 1: they're round balls of snow. That's a tough one, you know,
Speaker 1: it makes it hard to know which one is which.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to get the angry emails. Is well, though,
Speaker 1: I'm not being I'm not being a snowst Okay, all right, Okay,
Speaker 1: aren't you are? All right? So you you can't tell
Speaker 1: the difference, which I guess means other people might not
Speaker 1: be a difference. I can tell you. That's what I'm
Speaker 1: getting at, is that I think that's part of the reason,
Speaker 1: part of the problem. Nobody really realizes that there too,
Speaker 1: because they look exactly the same to you, folks. It's
Speaker 1: entirely possible. It's entirely possible too that if Frosty committed this,
Speaker 1: with this heinous crime, that it might have been. Maybe
Speaker 1: Frosty one committed the crime, but Frosty two is the
Speaker 1: one who unfortunately paid entirely Yeah, and you know, Frosty
Speaker 1: one was kind of a scheezy character, at least scording
Speaker 1: to our anonymous source. Yeah, so here's so you're the theories.
Speaker 1: So evidence in favor of Frosty was a murderer, Well,
Speaker 1: small bits of bark were found in the vicinity of
Speaker 1: the child's body. That's Robert Irving and also theater Bundy
Speaker 1: said that when he saw Frosty and Irving together, Frosty
Speaker 1: had one of his stick hands on Irving's shoulder and
Speaker 1: kind of a creepy way. I don't know, I guess
Speaker 1: if I mean, you know you mentioned stick hands, right,
Speaker 1: I just don't know that that Frosty would have had
Speaker 1: the sheer upper body strength to commit a crime like
Speaker 1: was committed to uh irving, Yeah were sticks? Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's kind of like that kind of
Speaker 1: like makes it seem kind of unlikely. Yeah, it seems
Speaker 1: unlikely to me too. But if Frosty wasn't the killer,
Speaker 1: then who was? I don't know. I think that's an
Speaker 1: unsolved this is I don't know why we would bring
Speaker 1: this one up, because it seems like it's a show
Speaker 1: in and of itself. Yeah, I mean we should have
Speaker 1: held us back. Damn it. We'll resurrect it and flog
Speaker 1: it to death next Christmas. Yeah, yeah, so I would.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna go with Frosty was not not
Speaker 1: the killer. And who knows who the killer was? I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I we'll never know. Probably, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: maybe Theodore Bundy, that kid, I don't know, Maybe he's around,
Speaker 1: maybe he'll maybe he knows something. We'll see if we
Speaker 1: can find him, should track him downbook, Yeah, everybody's on faceboard,
Speaker 1: thank you one of the two. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I just yeah, I agree, with Joe. I don't
Speaker 1: think Frosty really could have done it. Yeah, yeah, that's well,
Speaker 1: that's the hard part, especially again there's two of them
Speaker 1: and it just yeah, maybe the two of them like
Speaker 1: ganged up on the kid. Maybe, but neither looked like
Speaker 1: they could you do anything of any note. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it. I mean, let's face it, people get murdered
Speaker 1: all the time, even in small towns, right, just regular
Speaker 1: old human beings. I think I might know if if
Speaker 1: Frosty did it. I think I know how Frosty might
Speaker 1: have done it. Have you ever heard of Burking? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what Burking? You know who Burke and Hair are, right,
Speaker 1: they're the guys. It was eighteen hundreds of England killed
Speaker 1: a bunch of people to sell them to the schools
Speaker 1: for autopsies. And they were they tended to be inebriated
Speaker 1: people or sickly so, but they couldn't show any signs
Speaker 1: of being abused to. What these guys would do is
Speaker 1: they would sit on their chest to compress their lungs
Speaker 1: and then put their hand over their mouth and nose
Speaker 1: and suffocate them. That's called after Birken Hair, it's called burking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even possible that Frosty could have done that, especially to
Speaker 1: a little kid. Frosty would be heavy enough to cause
Speaker 1: that kind of damage. Yeah, but we're again, this is
Speaker 1: this isn't just suddenly. It's one of those things that
Speaker 1: hit me. But Robert Irving was actually there were signs
Speaker 1: of strangulation though, oh yeah they were okay, so actually okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. The towns out there, Snowman,
Speaker 1: and as far as everybody's concerned, the mystery is solved.
Speaker 1: I don't think it really is. I don't either. I
Speaker 1: don't know if we'll ever know. Probably not. Um yeah, well, uh,
Speaker 1: if folks want to know more, they can find more.
Speaker 1: There's a lot out there. We'll put some of that
Speaker 1: information on our website. We should probably link that site,
Speaker 1: or the two Frosti site. I'll definitely do that if
Speaker 1: you want to find the information that we're we've got
Speaker 1: up for you, and you can listen to this episode
Speaker 1: in any other episode and download or stream. The website is,
Speaker 1: of course, thinking sideways podcast dot com. You can leave
Speaker 1: a comment there if you've got other things that you
Speaker 1: want to say to us, or if you've got feedback
Speaker 1: episode suggestions. You can always go ahead and send us
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Speaker 1: really all of the stuff that we've got there, so
Speaker 1: I guess we will enjoy your holiday a body next week,
Speaker 1: yeahry Chris, next year, next year. Yeah that's right. No,
Speaker 1: not quite, not quite. I'm sorry. Yeah, I we'll see
Speaker 1: you at the end of this year. Yeah, by everybody.
Speaker 1: Bye bye. They do not forget to edit Mike's name
Speaker 1: out right, No, no, no, no, that's why we're recording.
Speaker 1: This is going to kill me. Literally. Hello, this is
Speaker 1: the voicemail for thinking sideways. We're not taking your call
Speaker 1: right now. Please leave a message after the beep. Your mother,
Speaker 1: your facking mother, soule mother. I told you to keep
Speaker 1: my name out of it. I told you not to
Speaker 1: say that it was Mike from Sword and Scale talking
Speaker 1: about how the Igo Ma killed Frosty the snow Man.
Speaker 1: What do you do You put it out there for
Speaker 1: everyone to hear. I'll tell you what. I'm going into
Speaker 1: hiding for the next couple of weeks. But when I
Speaker 1: come back, you're on my list. You better watch out,
Speaker 1: you better not cry. Watch it back. H