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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by making the

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Speaker 1: contest of my Cat's litter box into a little almond

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Speaker 1: roccas and selling them a Saturday market. Instead, it is

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Speaker 1: supported by the generous contributions of people like you, our

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Speaker 1: listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways

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Speaker 1: to learn more story. Hey everyone, Happy holidays from Team Sideways.

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Speaker 1: That's right, it's Christmas Eve. It's Christmas Eve. It is

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Speaker 1: here's open. Everybody gets all the cool presence they're dreaming of,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a nuclear weapon or or world

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Speaker 1: peace whichever. Yeah, what just come on. If you listened,

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Speaker 1: if you've been listening to the show for more than

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Speaker 1: a year, I guess at this point you know, Or

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Speaker 1: if you've binge listened, I guess it's all of our episodes.

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Speaker 1: You know that we like to do uh themed shows

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Speaker 1: around pretty much every holiday of the year. You do

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Speaker 1: Halloween themes, and we do Christmas themes or winter holiday themes.

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Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of Christmas mysteries there are,

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Speaker 1: and so this this year we decided to try to

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Speaker 1: take on a big one, and that is we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about Frosty A K. A the Snowman. Yea, indeed, Frosty.

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Speaker 1: I assume most of our listeners have heard of Frosty,

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Speaker 1: but if you haven't, here's the skinny. In fifty, a

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Speaker 1: song was released about this supposedly enigmatic creature. Since the original,

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Speaker 1: there have been many, many, many recordings of the song

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Speaker 1: the original song. Um, lots of movies, yeah, lots of movies,

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Speaker 1: lots of books, lots of merchandising partnerships with the Frosty franchise,

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Speaker 1: and popular items like the holiday version of The Wears

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Speaker 1: Waldo books. McDonald's did a partnership with Frosty for a while.

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Speaker 1: Frosty is big, Yeah he is, And officially the franchise

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Speaker 1: of Frosty Story is owned jointly by DreamWorks Animation and

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Speaker 1: with Warner Brothers TV. But we're not going to really

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Speaker 1: talk about that because the thing is that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the sanitized version of you know, the Disney version of

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Speaker 1: the Fairy Tales. The real character appears to be a

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Speaker 1: bit darker. Yeah, we it's it's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: short version. It's like, we kind of know, the cliff

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Speaker 1: note version of Stories Life. And instead we're going to

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Speaker 1: go kind of back to say fairy tales before the

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Speaker 1: grand Brothers even got on to what they were, what

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Speaker 1: they really were. Yeah, and that's what we're going to

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Speaker 1: do with Frosty. Um, because you know, we don't we

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Speaker 1: don't really know who he is. I mean, they say

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Speaker 1: that magic made a snowman come to life, but I

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Speaker 1: have a hard time believing that. Yeah, we'll talk about that.

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Speaker 1: And even if it wasn't my cat, where did the

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Speaker 1: magic hat come from? Yeah? Exactly, So, yeah, you do.

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Speaker 1: You guys just want to jump into theories on how

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Speaker 1: he existed, really, because there are a couple of different

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Speaker 1: theory sections will do, right, Yeah, they're really kind, there's

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Speaker 1: a whole Yeah, we've got a ton of theory, so

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Speaker 1: we should probably start there. Yeah, so why don't we

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Speaker 1: just dive right in? To steal a term from Steve,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm up because I have theory number one,

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Speaker 1: which is, when you read the story of Frosty, you'll

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Speaker 1: you'll notice that the whole story comes from a kind

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Speaker 1: of a very small locale and then it spread really

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Speaker 1: kind of virally over one or two winters. Well, the

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Speaker 1: whole thing about Frosty and all these crazy things he does.

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Speaker 1: To me, it's pretty simple, is that he didn't actually exist. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he was kind of a group hallucination. What okay, what

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Speaker 1: what does everybody do at the holiday season when they

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Speaker 1: go to where Christmas parties your family get together? Is

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Speaker 1: what a drink? Exactly okay? And Edna knows how to

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Speaker 1: make great eggnog because she loves to put a lot

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Speaker 1: of booze in it. No, but there are some teetotalers

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Speaker 1: who don't believe in putting the booze in, and they

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Speaker 1: evidently may have been the ones that we're aging it.

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Speaker 1: And so it's kind of a situation that's very similar

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Speaker 1: to what's the bread mold is ergo? So same thing.

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Speaker 1: All these people go to this giant party and they

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Speaker 1: all drink this rancid eggnog and they all hallucinate. There's

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Speaker 1: probably one guy who was in a top hat and

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Speaker 1: a scarf running around having a high old time while

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Speaker 1: he was stoned out of his brain too, and they

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Speaker 1: all would he's a snowman, it's so crazy. And then

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Speaker 1: he took his hat off and he didn't look the

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Speaker 1: same anymore. Story solved. So that is that is where

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Speaker 1: I think the simple version may have come from. And

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a few things where you you see

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Speaker 1: some stuff about the effects of this mold. But well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we talked to it when we talked about with the dancing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it's also the Mary Celeste. Yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: people see some weird stuff, like everybody would have had

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Speaker 1: to have had it, right, if it's a big party,

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Speaker 1: everybody's having it. But then also, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: the whole prosty thing, it didn't just go on for

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Speaker 1: the space of a few hours at a party. Is

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Speaker 1: like it went on for a long time and Frosty

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Speaker 1: was hanging out for a while, right, Well, have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard of a thing called a flashback? Yeah, these

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Speaker 1: people may have been like an acid trip kind of

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Speaker 1: having a little flashback, and so they all think, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see in human memory is so fallible that it

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Speaker 1: may have been that they thought it was days when

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Speaker 1: they were really just kind of Yeah. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: my I've you know, had nights where it's been like, man,

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Speaker 1: it seems like we've been hanging out for like twelve

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Speaker 1: hours and it's been twenty minutes. Yeah, okay, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: a doll party. Yeah. Yeah, So that's my that's my

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Speaker 1: first hit. Theory about it. Okay, all right, well I

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Speaker 1: have another theory, um, but that's not the magic hat.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's consider the magic hat and why it's so wrong.

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Speaker 1: First of all, as as Devon has already said, where

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Speaker 1: did it come from? As an animated device, it's got

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Speaker 1: some pretty serious shortcomings. Frosty, Frosty was around for a while.

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Speaker 1: And supposing you're Frosty and you're crossing the street and

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Speaker 1: a puff of wind knocks the magic hat off your head,

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Speaker 1: and now you're back to being an inanimate object in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the street, and of course the car

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Speaker 1: is going to come along in three seconds. How Murphy's

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Speaker 1: alot works. Yeah, so markin, Yeah, he was around for

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Speaker 1: a while, and and you would think the hat would

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Speaker 1: be like getting knocked off his head all the time,

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Speaker 1: unless he had like a cylindrical snow dome, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, Like the top of his head

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Speaker 1: had a cylinder in it that the top hat fit on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could be that would stop the wind issue. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but here's here's another there's another a reason to not

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Speaker 1: believe it. And let's just say if they if these

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Speaker 1: things existed, or just one of them is somebody would

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Speaker 1: have made a five hundred foot tall city destroying snowman

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Speaker 1: a long time ago, and we've never seen one because

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Speaker 1: it's it is all little kids that are around Frosty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and little kids love to make that kind of yeah

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Speaker 1: they do. Oh yeah, I mean I would make it.

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Speaker 1: I would make the biggest snowman possible. So I think

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Speaker 1: that Frosty was actually something else entirely, and there is

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Speaker 1: actually some support for this in the town Moved, of

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Speaker 1: all places. He's inanimate, then it comes to life, and

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Speaker 1: that sounds an awful out Like a golem. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what am is. I mean, I know what goalm is,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know what a go yeah golem is.

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Speaker 1: In Jewish folklore, it's uh, it's when somebody wants to

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Speaker 1: make a creature that can be sort of a helper,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, or a defender. They can put

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Speaker 1: one together out of like mud or dust or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then and then if you know that, if you

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Speaker 1: know the right magic words, so you can actually turn

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Speaker 1: this into an animated creature. I want to say it

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Speaker 1: was there. It's always there's something that's always written on

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Speaker 1: the forehead night. Yeah, I can't remember what it is.

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Speaker 1: But that's how they bring it to life. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so a golm can be really made of anything, even snow,

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Speaker 1: and then you have your you have your little helper

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Speaker 1: defend or whatever. So so Frosty could have been made

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Speaker 1: of snow and been animated to help. He didn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he didn't really actually do much. He didn't do much

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Speaker 1: other than playing with the kids. It seems like, although

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Speaker 1: I guess around the holidays, that's kind of what you want, right,

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Speaker 1: You're like, okay, kids, get out of the house, go play.

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Speaker 1: I have so much work to do. Is that not

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Speaker 1: a thing? Yeah, no, that definitely is the thing. But

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Speaker 1: here's my problem with the steery Joe is that the

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Speaker 1: goal doesn't speak. Yeah, Frosty nattered on continually. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is according to the story anyway. Yeah, he did speak,

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Speaker 1: so that that is a kind of a weakness in

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Speaker 1: the theory. Although you never know. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 1: like zombies and the movies have have sort of morphed

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Speaker 1: over the years and now they move fast. Oh they

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Speaker 1: used to be slow and bumbly and now they Olympic speeds. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: So different attributes they yeah, they you know, in different ways.

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Speaker 1: And stuff. Yeah, so the goal and may have evolved

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Speaker 1: just like zombies did. Possibly, yeah, possible. Yeah. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's my theory. I'm sticking with it. Okay, Well, prepared

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Speaker 1: to decide otherwise because I actually did my research, uh

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Speaker 1: and found found some experts here and I, um, while

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Speaker 1: you know, I did my homework or I'm lazy, whichever,

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Speaker 1: How did you find these guys? Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: did a little digging. Um, I found some historic records

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Speaker 1: and you know, somebody suggested that these guys might know

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Speaker 1: what they were talking about. So, um, I actually gave

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Speaker 1: him a call. I did recording. Can you want to

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Speaker 1: just um, you just want to listen to? Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is Justin and errand from the Generation one. Oh hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Who is this really

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Speaker 1: you guys, It's Devin. It's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: You know that other podcast that you get compared to

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Speaker 1: all the time, and we get compared to you all

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Speaker 1: the time, and we're like best friends. Now apparently I

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Speaker 1: I need your help. I hear you guys have some

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Speaker 1: information on Frosty a k a. The Snowman. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me about him? Like who he was or anything

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Speaker 1: about him. So do we have, like, what evidence do

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Speaker 1: we have on Frosty the Snowman. I I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really do very much research. I kind of

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Speaker 1: did a little digging and then found you guys, so

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Speaker 1: can you can can you guys help me out here?

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Speaker 1: We don't have a corn cob pipe or a hat,

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Speaker 1: so some things are lost to history, so there's no

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Speaker 1: physical evidence now the physical evidence has gone. What we

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Speaker 1: do have, though, is a song. If you remember, not

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Speaker 1: too long ago, we cover the McMartin pre school scandal

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Speaker 1: and a song figured pretty heavily into that case. So

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Speaker 1: here I think this song, Frosty the Snowman, is even

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Speaker 1: more important to this case than the other song was

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Speaker 1: to the McMartin that that song was written in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen fifties. Maybe the lyrics will tell us something

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Speaker 1: about this, So it goes, Frosty the Snowman was a jolly,

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Speaker 1: happy soul, so we know he's jolly and he has

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Speaker 1: a soul, so he's a being or he's alive right,

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Speaker 1: with a corn cob pipe and a button nose and

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Speaker 1: two eyes made out of coal. Well coal back then,

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Speaker 1: back in the fifties, you had coal mining and you

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Speaker 1: had coal burning furnaces. So I guess this is sort

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Speaker 1: of his trying to relate to the common man, the workerman,

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Speaker 1: the blue collar worker, right, hard working man. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: gotta give respect to Frosty already, right, Yeah. And he's

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Speaker 1: got a button nose. I mean that's clothing, you know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's good for a sniffing clothing. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Frosty the Snowman is a fairy tale. They say he

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Speaker 1: was made of snow, but the children know how he

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Speaker 1: came to life one day, so the children know, how

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Speaker 1: did they know? How were they being questioned about this?

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Speaker 1: Who was questioning the children? I don't know that they're

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Speaker 1: being questioned. It almost sounds like it's a secret they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to keep the children know, the adults do not know.

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Speaker 1: That's a little suspicious, very suspicious. Now I'm not feeling

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Speaker 1: so good about Frosty now, okay, Uh. There must have

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Speaker 1: been some magic and that old silk hat they found

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Speaker 1: magic hat to entice children. Kids love magic, or maybe

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Speaker 1: it's magic mushroom silk road, I don't know. For when

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Speaker 1: they placed it on his head, he began to dance

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Speaker 1: around the magic hat induced is dancing could be another

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Speaker 1: drug reference. I'm not sure. Well, now it really is

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Speaker 1: starting to sound like drugs. Okay, it was written in

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Speaker 1: the fifties, right, well, what would people think that was

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Speaker 1: before before I'm not supposed to dance like that right now.

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Speaker 1: It was a little taboo. I mean, this is before

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Speaker 1: footluc even. Oh, Frosty the Snowman was a lie as

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Speaker 1: he could be. And the children say he could laugh

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Speaker 1: and play just the same as you and me. So

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Speaker 1: he's identifying with them. He's saying, hey, that's cool. You know,

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Speaker 1: I may be big, but I'm one of you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it is a little weird for this adult male

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Speaker 1: guy to be only playing with children. And he's kind

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Speaker 1: of blue collar. I mean, if he's Michael Jackson, that's

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Speaker 1: one thing. But I don't know if Frosty has enough

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Speaker 1: money to be playing with little kids and get away

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Speaker 1: with it. Uh, Frosty clumsy as he could be. See

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Speaker 1: him lopping along off he goes on an icicle spree

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Speaker 1: with a happy song. Rosty the snow Man, he's clumsy,

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Speaker 1: he likes to trip and fall. Uh, maybe put his

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Speaker 1: hands somewhere. They don't need to be. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's we we got problems. He's falling down

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Speaker 1: or falling into people. Yeah, it's pretty clumsy. He knew

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Speaker 1: the sun was hot that day, so he said, let's

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Speaker 1: run and we'll have some fun now before I melt away.

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Speaker 1: He knew the sun was hot that day. The heat

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Speaker 1: is on. The heat is on, but the heat is

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Speaker 1: onto him. Yeah, he knows his time what these children

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Speaker 1: is limited. Let's just say that. Down to the village

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Speaker 1: with a broomstick in his hand. Okay, there's more children

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Speaker 1: in the village. Possible weapon involved or a spanking tool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: running here and there all around the square, saying catch

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Speaker 1: me if you can. That's cute. He led them dow.

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Speaker 1: He's luring them. Yeah, like, oh, let's play this game.

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Speaker 1: Catch me, catch me and run down the basement. Oh

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, they're grabbing t he he yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: this isn't good so far man. He led them down

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Speaker 1: the streets of town, right to the traffic cop and

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Speaker 1: only paused a moment when he heard him haller, stop,

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Speaker 1: Frosty has just been given a lawful command by a

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Speaker 1: police officer, and a police officer if he suspects that

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Speaker 1: crime is being committed. He has the right to stop

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Speaker 1: you and terry frisk you and terrogate you. He has

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Speaker 1: the right, and you have to obey his command. So

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Speaker 1: he sees Frosty with a group of children that he's

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Speaker 1: not related to. He's not their guardian. Frosty the Snowman

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Speaker 1: had to hurry on his way, but he waved goodbye, saying,

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Speaker 1: don't you cry, I'll be back again someday. I think

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Speaker 1: Frosty just refused a lawful and from an officer, and

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Speaker 1: we could consider him fleeing from a scene or evading arrest.

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Speaker 1: He didn't stop, right, Well, the idea is that he's

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Speaker 1: not planning to stop, but he could be caught. And

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Speaker 1: I think he's telling everyone don't worry one way or another.

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Speaker 1: I'll work my way back. I'll be back. Well, whether

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Speaker 1: he's caught or whether he gets away. Okay, But the

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Speaker 1: next line is thumpety thump, thump, thumpity thump thump. Now

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Speaker 1: is this the sound of the nightstick hitting him? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's either that or you know the sound a heavy

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Speaker 1: If you make a big heavy snow block or something

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Speaker 1: and throw it at the snow, it makes the thump. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So there's a battle here. He's getting slammed down with concrete.

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Speaker 1: Either this is a really vicious battle, either the cops

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Speaker 1: winning or Frosty's winning. But I think with the thumpety

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Speaker 1: thump thump, maybe I'm reading too much, but to me,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like someone is consisting stantly winning here. So

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Speaker 1: either the Night's Stick is working or Frosty is working.

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Speaker 1: And if if I had to guess, it's the Night's Stick,

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Speaker 1: I think that's if this has a happy ending. Well,

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Speaker 1: it says, look at Frosty go. Is that to jail? No,

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Speaker 1: look at Frosty go, to me implies that Frosty is

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Speaker 1: moving under his own powers. So to me, I think

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Speaker 1: maybe he sort of separated into his three parts. And

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Speaker 1: then it went sumbody thump thump down onto the police

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Speaker 1: officer and then he's like knocked out. And then watch

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Speaker 1: Frosty go. He's heading for the hills. He's running for

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Speaker 1: the hill. Well it says thumpty thump thump over the

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Speaker 1: hills of snow. I mean, I really like the movie Scarface,

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Speaker 1: and there was hills of snow in that movie. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what was the original question. Were we supposed

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Speaker 1: to I don't know what. Frosty just doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: a good person to me. Why Frosty, why did he

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Speaker 1: do it? He shall we have we have an idea

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Speaker 1: of why he did it, but it makes us uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: even to think about it. Right, Yeah, Frosty is not

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Speaker 1: so nice now, no? Right? No, So I hope that

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Speaker 1: answer answers your guys questions, and thanks for asking, and

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Speaker 1: you all have a merry Christmas. Yeah, what's in the pipe? Frosty?

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Speaker 1: Thanks you guys. Um, that was really helpful. Have a

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Speaker 1: good Christmas. Merry Christmas. Say hi to Val and the

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Speaker 1: kids for me. Show off so they seem to know

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Speaker 1: what they're talking about, right, sort of a little. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they bring up some good points, I will give them.

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Speaker 1: That song sounds like he could have been an actual guy.

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Speaker 1: What it's suggesting that Frosty was some sort of a

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Speaker 1: per for that he was a drug pusher or what. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that he was like a like a drug guy, like

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Speaker 1: a drug type guy. Is this why I've suddenly noticed

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Speaker 1: that both of you have been saying Frosty a k a.

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Speaker 1: The Snowman, that's his name, Yeah, as in the snowman,

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Speaker 1: as in you know that was his code name as

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Speaker 1: in blow. Yeah, okay, I did not know that part. Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: I know one of the kids like him so much.

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Speaker 1: They have so much energy, So I guess, um, I

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Speaker 1: can do we feel like we need to come to

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Speaker 1: a consensus in the room about what Frosty was in

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Speaker 1: order to go forward or do? Are we okay with

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Speaker 1: just thinking different things? I don't know that it does

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Speaker 1: any good because the fact of the matter is is

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Speaker 1: the media industrial complex is going to push the he

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Speaker 1: was a snowman thing and it doesn't really matter. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter to us. I guess it matters to us

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Speaker 1: and our listeners. But let's face it, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: no matter what truth we come up with, it will

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Speaker 1: be Yeah. Well, I don't know. I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: worth coming up with the truth. I mean, I I

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Speaker 1: think that um, guys from generation why, they definitely know

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Speaker 1: their stuff. And yeah it was but you know, they

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Speaker 1: said that Frosty was kind of a pusher kind of guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it appears to me that he actually was a snowman.

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Speaker 1: I don't have animated snowman. I just don't. All right, well,

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Speaker 1: and that's not you know, he can be a snowman

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Speaker 1: and still be a drug pusher. That's true. It could

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Speaker 1: be a snowman dealing snow. So okay, well then I

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Speaker 1: mean what evidence do we I mean, what do we

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Speaker 1: know about Frosty? What happened to Frosty? Well, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: according to the song, he ran a foul of the

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Speaker 1: of the town's traffic cop and then left town, promising

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Speaker 1: to be back someday. But of course, you know, in town,

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Speaker 1: out of town, sooner or later, the temperature goes up,

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Speaker 1: Frosty melts. Um. You know, so you couldn't have survived

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Speaker 1: that season. Yeah, just seasonal change, seasonal change. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: but so that is one that you know that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the prevalent theory, is that temperature rise and frost emails. Actually,

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Speaker 1: you guys, Um, when I was talking to Justin and Aaron,

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Speaker 1: they actually mentioned that they Yeah, the gen Y guys,

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Speaker 1: they they know someone who might actually have kind of

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Speaker 1: the inside scoop about what actually happened to Frosty. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have a stone over. Do you want to give

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Speaker 1: him a call? Okay, so wait, but this guy, this

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Speaker 1: guy is really if I remember this because I saw

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Speaker 1: these emails going back. Yeah, then this guy. He's a

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Speaker 1: little squirrely about who he is. Okay, but like, okay,

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Speaker 1: but we have it's a podcast, we can edit. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So so because I know that I saw this email,

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Speaker 1: is that he wanted to be completely anonymous, So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna keep this anonymous for him. Yeah, of course we are. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so so you but you have to edit it. So

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Speaker 1: let's just call him up right now. Okay, Hey, Mike,

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Speaker 1: that's me. Oh hey Mike, it's it's Devin from Thinking Sideways. Um.

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Speaker 1: We email back and forth a couple of times. UM,

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Speaker 1: we are giving you a call recording right now. UM,

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Speaker 1: hopefully that's okay. I know you're well, we'll edit. It's fine. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we've we have some questions about Frosty because you

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Speaker 1: said that you had some infune that you would talk

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Speaker 1: to us about it. Now there's we've got a bunch

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Speaker 1: of questions. Yeah, as like, as you know, we were

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Speaker 1: covering the story of Frosty a k a. The Snowman,

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Speaker 1: and uh you know, as you are well aware of

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Speaker 1: the standards, story is that Frosty was done in by

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Speaker 1: a temperature change and he essentially melted. But I've heard

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Speaker 1: rumors on Redd at in other places that Frosty perhaps

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Speaker 1: met us in a different way. Yeah, listen, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm only talking to you guys because I don't want

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Speaker 1: you know, I just I don't think this is right

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Speaker 1: what they did to that boy. Um do you mean Frosty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta promise me, though, you're gonna keep my name

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Speaker 1: out of this, because if they did that to him,

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Speaker 1: imagine what they're gonna do to me. You know, I

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Speaker 1: have house of family, a dog. We will we won't,

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Speaker 1: we won't let it out. Yeah, we'll delete your any

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Speaker 1: references to your name and everything else in Sword and

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Speaker 1: Scale podcast. Okay, so what's what's going on? What happened? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the official answers that nobody really knows

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Speaker 1: for sure. Um, what we do know is that on

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Speaker 1: July one, the day after Jimmy Hoffa was killed, a

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old boy by the name of Sammy Johnson

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Speaker 1: he was skateboarding when he found a carrot near an

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Speaker 1: industrial food packing warehouse just outside of Detroit. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what about two little lumps of coal? Well, I'll get

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Speaker 1: to that. The carrot was just sitting there among a

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Speaker 1: bunch of boxes. I mean, how do you explain that.

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Speaker 1: Two weeks later they did find two pieces of coal

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Speaker 1: near the Alameda Chili cook off. How far away from

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Speaker 1: the Carrot Well, that's on the other side of the country.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. But they were just sitting there next

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Speaker 1: to a pile of logs. After four days they found

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Speaker 1: a couple of twigs or the home of seventy six

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Speaker 1: year old World War One veteran by the name of

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Speaker 1: Frank Buckles, just one outside and he found him there. Um,

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Speaker 1: those were his arms. Well that's what some people think.

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Speaker 1: It was in western Pennsylvania. It was a bungalow and

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Speaker 1: the arms or twigs were just as scarted there like

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Speaker 1: a pile of trash. Now you tell me who mutilates

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Speaker 1: a body like that and leaves parts of it all

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Speaker 1: over the country. Uh, you know, if you ask me,

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Speaker 1: there's only one outfit that could do it, and that's

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Speaker 1: the Mob. Do you have any proof of this? What

420
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you is that next to each of

421
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: these grizzly body parts there was a puddle, almost like

422
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: they were trying to send a message. You know. Whatever

423
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: Frosty did, he was weighing over his head. So how

424
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: did Frosty get involved? With the mob. He was doing

425
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: some low level stuff at first, you know, collecting bets. Uh,

426
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: he was a bookie for a while in the Fuller

427
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: Park area. Everything was working out, you know, pretty good

428
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: for him. He had a couple of ceedy clients though,

429
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: and one of them decided he wasn't gonna pay up.

430
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: I mean, Frosty is a cold dude. But uh, you know,

431
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: even though he has got that bit of an ominous

432
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: stare at him with those beady black eyes, there wasn't

433
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: much to back it up. I mean, with those twig

434
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: like arms and not a lot of upper body strength.

435
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: Not really now, I couldn't really hold it down, you know.

436
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: The funny The funny thing is, I remember old Frosty.

437
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: There was this one time at the Green Door tavern.

438
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: He he got pissed drunk and uh, he down half

439
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: a bottle of jack. He was going around challenging bar

440
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: patrons to an arm wrestling match. That worked out well, Yeah,

441
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: he got his ass kicked. So so I think after that,

442
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, he started having some problems with the boss um.

443
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: He just seemed to keep messing up after that, Like

444
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: he couldn't do anything right. Uh, it was just a

445
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: matter of time before he got what was coming to him,

446
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: and we all saw it coming from a mile away.

447
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: So so what was he? He's a creepy mother he was? Yeah, Yeah,

448
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: The question is is um? You know? Was he? Uh?

449
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: Was it Aliens? Was he? What's what's the what's the

450
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: what's the Jewish creature? The golm? Was he a gollum? Perhaps?

451
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: Dude said he was from Jersey? I mean, okay, so

452
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't a snowman. Well, I think he

453
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: was from Slovakia, to be honest with you. So I

454
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: don't know what that makes him, or maybe Romania or

455
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: Bulgaria or one of the e s. I don't. I

456
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: don't really know. But you know, he would get lit

457
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: up and sing these weird drinking songs from some Eastern

458
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: European language and it would creep everybody out. Plus the

459
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: dumb hat. He would always wear it, you know, even

460
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: at the time when everybody was wearing hats. It was unfashionable.

461
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: Everybody worked for Doras, and he insisted on wearing that

462
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: stupid top hat. That and that's scarf scarf. And he's

463
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: definitely an out of town er, you know. But you

464
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: know in answering your question about whether he was a snowman.

465
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: Rumor has it he was just an alcoholic. Uh. He

466
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: up himself warm on those cold winter nights somehow, probably

467
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: with a bottle of Scotch and a pipe filled with

468
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: a little hashish. I don't know. Seventies seventies were weird, man,

469
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: he had. They had all kinds of things back then.

470
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: They had freaking genetically modified reindeer with glowing noses, you know,

471
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 1: I remember that. Yeah, they had a snow wookie and uh,

472
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: just a lot of drugs. So Frosty tried them all. Yeah,

473
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: and they I have heard definitely that his name actually

474
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: kind of had two meetings, you know, the Snowman and

475
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and that's probably why it was so

476
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: popular with the kids in the neighborhood. Was passing out

477
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: lots of pretty blow. Well, he definitely had some on them.

478
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: I can guarantee that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, thanks

479
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: thanks for a green to talk to us, and thanks

480
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: for the info. I guess, uh yeah, no problem. Just

481
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: remember just keep Mike from sort of scale out of it.

482
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: I was never here. This is totally off the record,

483
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: and I don't want I don't want snowman body parts

484
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: showing up here in Florida? Are your body parts showing

485
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: up here? Yeah? Well we'll definitely edit your name out

486
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: of this. Thanks guys, Hey, thanks you, thank you for

487
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: your time. Thanks for the information. No problem. Uh wow,

488
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere that I didn't that's an ugly anything.

489
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: Our emails did not. I didn't think that was gonna know,

490
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't think he wanted to commit anything to pen

491
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: and papers. Yeah, I understand why, now, Yeah, this is

492
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: this is big stuff. Okay, okay, so there's that. Yeah, yeah,

493
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: so Frosty done in by the mob apparently, but there's

494
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: another theory out there that he was not. He was

495
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: not done in by the mob. He was done in

496
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: by a mob. All different story. I know. This kind

497
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: of contradicts our anonymous sources story, but actually in reality

498
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It appears that there were actually two Frosties.

499
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah I know, but one of them apparently wasn't imposture,

500
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: which is which I'm not really sure. I'm going to

501
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: say this other Frosty will call him Frosty too. He

502
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: did give his name his Frosty. This is, at least

503
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: according to the guys over at two frosties dot Com,

504
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: which has some interesting stuff on it, according to According

505
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: to two frostis in late fall, the same year that

506
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: the original Frosty showed up in town, word got back

507
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: to the authorities of a bizarre animated snowman, and by authorities,

508
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: I don't mean that traffic copy yielded at Frosty. I'm

509
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: walking about the men in black of course, Yeah, yeah,

510
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, of course. They were concerned that Frosty

511
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: was possibly an alien or or a robotic alien probe

512
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: disguised as a snowman, so they decided to bring him

513
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: in for some questioning. On one night in early November,

514
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: an unmarked van squeezed to a halt in front of Frosty,

515
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: and five guys dressed in dark clothing jumped out, threw

516
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: a blanket over Frosty, and buntled him into the back

517
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: of the van. There was only one witness to this,

518
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: which is one of the local kids, and nobody took

519
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: him seriously when he said that a snowman had been kidnapped. Yeah,

520
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: a snowman, big deal. Yeah. The feed stock Frosty to

521
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: a secure refrigerator facility outside of Schenectady in New York

522
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: and held him there for over a month. Uh. And

523
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: by the way, this puts the final nail in the

524
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: coffin of the magic hat theory, because when it took

525
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: him in, they took his personal effects. It took the hat,

526
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 1: the scarf, the pipe. Yeah, it's it's weird. I Uh,

527
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: I was looking at those we posted those photos in

528
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: the links, and it was it was interesting. It wasn't

529
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: what I was expecting, No, not at all. Yeah, but

530
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: but this is why they were too fraught there. Just

531
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: believe they were too Frosties because while he was held

532
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: for well over a month in this secure facility and um,

533
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: at the same time, the other Frosty was out frolicking

534
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: with the kids, and so it couldn't have been two

535
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: places at once. So that's why we think that there

536
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: was a second impostor Frosty. Yeah, yeah, okay, well back

537
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 1: back to his story. Uh, the interrogation techniques escalated as

538
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: time went by because Frosty kept saying that he didn't

539
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: know anything. And I'm pretty sure Frosty really didn't know anything.

540
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean, he was just snow man for guy's sake. Yeah.

541
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: They started that with isolation and sleep deprivation. Frosty Frosty

542
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: wasn't talking. Fed weren't taking that for an answer, so

543
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: they started threatening again. They're threatened to turn up the thermostat.

544
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: They're threatened to turn him into snowballs. They's threatened to

545
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: turn him into the beginnings of an igloo and Frosty. Yes,

546
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: it was kind of ly and Frosty still it's just said, Hey,

547
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I don't even

548
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: know what an alien is, which is amazing because most

549
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: people under that level of torture will start making something

550
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: up just to appea. I guess it's almost suspicious. Yeah, yeah,

551
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 1: I know. Finally a frustration one of the one day,

552
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: one of the agents leaned over the table and burned

553
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: Frosty with a cigarette. But you can't what what do

554
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: you mean? No, I mean like you can't you can't

555
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: smoke indoor. I mean how long ago was this? It

556
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: was long. There was decades ago. So you can't just

557
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: like burn a guy with a cigarette. Apparently you can? Yeah,

558
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: when you can't, Yeah, yes, it's that guy. Kind of

559
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: a rise out of Frosty, they decided they decided to

560
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: go with that technique for a while, so they all

561
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: live up unfiltered Lucky strikes cigarettes and started burning poor Frosty.

562
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: And of course she's still and it's well documented. But

563
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: if you go to two Frosty's dot com, they have

564
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: a picture of the interrogation room right after the Frosty

565
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: was sent back to his cell and there's drops of

566
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: water on the floor from his burns. It means it's

567
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: just too Warner listeners. They are they're hard to look at. Yeah,

568
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 1: yeah they are. They are kind of graphic. Um and uh,

569
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: but even the torture didn't get anything from him. They

570
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: considered water boarding, but it's kind of hard to water

571
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: boards somebody in a refrigerated facility. It's the water freezes. Yeah,

572
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: so and it's hard to I can't imagine how easy

573
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: it would be the up water board of snowman anyway.

574
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: Would that be ice boarding at that point? Yeah, I

575
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: don't know, just ba bashing his head into a sheet

576
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: of ice. Yeah. Now that they didn't they didn't do

577
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: the water boarding. They finally actually decided that Frosty actually

578
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: didn't know anything and that he wasn't an alien. On

579
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: top of that, the holidays were coming up and they

580
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: all needed to do some shopping and plus they were

581
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: tired of being cold all the time, so that job

582
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: had to be terrible. Yeah. So Frosty was dumped off

583
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: just a couple of blocks from where he was kidnapped,

584
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: and things went back to normal for a while. But

585
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: this frost you'll call him Frosty two, Frosty two, was

586
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: kind of a hard luck snowman. In the end, things

587
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: really went south for him. On the evening of February ninety,

588
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: a five year old boy, Robert Julius Irving, was found

589
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,719
Speaker 1: strangled to death. Yeah. Another young boy at Theodore, Robert Bundy,

590
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: said that he had seen Irving with Frosty two an

591
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: hour or so before the body was found. What does

592
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: that name sound familiar? Theodore Robert? But I don't know, No,

593
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: it does sound familiar. To look it up. Yeah, I'll

594
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah. Uh So, an angry crowd of townsfolked

595
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: armed with matches, propane torches, cigarette lighters, and soldering irons,

596
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: surrounded Frosty, who had first pretended to be an an

597
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: inanimate object. When he saw the lighters and torches, he

598
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: started to plead his innocence, but it didn't do him

599
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: any good. Soon Frosty was reduced to a puddle. Not

600
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: long after that to a frozen puddle, and the town folks,

601
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: the townsfolk all decided that word of this must never

602
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: get out, and so they vowed never to speak of

603
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: it again, and the local Chamber of Commerce covered the

604
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: whole thing up just like in Jaws. That's going to

605
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: be terrible. I mean, the streets would run with water.

606
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: That strets. We're running with water, Yes, it was. It

607
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: was sad and why mob justice shouldn't be allowed to happen? Yeah,

608
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: I know, the town spoke. We're all spattered with water

609
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: with frosties, yeah, across these prostitutes. I can't imagine how

610
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: many showers it would take to get that off. I

611
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, and how do you how do you

612
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,479
Speaker 1: get the water stains out of your clothes? Yeah? Yeah,

613
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: So anyway, life kind of went back to normal. We're

614
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: kind of got out. A few inquisitive reporters showed up,

615
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: but they were met with basically a wall of silence

616
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: and that and one especially persistent one was treated to

617
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: a blanket party and on a wedgean Pretty soon the

618
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: inquiries died off. It was apparent the townsfolks were just

619
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about it, and the cover

620
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: up was very comprehensive. Even the Wikipedia page has been sanitized. Yeah,

621
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: nobody really knows about this anymore. No, no, no, it's not. Yeah,

622
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: so that's it. So I guess this is another mystery

623
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: about Frosty too. So was he a murderer? Yeah? Was

624
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: he was a murder? What do you guys think? Well,

625
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: it depends on Wait are we talking about Frosty a

626
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: k to Snowman, the first one or the second one

627
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Yeah, well, you know, it's kind

628
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: of hard to say which one, which one was done

629
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: in by the mob, and which one was done in

630
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: by the mob of townsfolk. That there could be a

631
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: little confusion there. That's that's my problem is that when

632
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: you see the photos of the Snowman, I can't tell

633
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: because there's snow, which one is which. No. I mean,

634
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: they both were the same hat, and they they're shaped identically,

635
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: they're round balls of snow. That's a tough one, you know,

636
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: it makes it hard to know which one is which.

637
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: I just don't want to get the angry emails. Is well, though,

638
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: I'm not being I'm not being a snowst Okay, all right, Okay,

639
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: aren't you are? All right? So you you can't tell

640
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: the difference, which I guess means other people might not

641
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: be a difference. I can tell you. That's what I'm

642
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: getting at, is that I think that's part of the reason,

643
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: part of the problem. Nobody really realizes that there too,

644
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: because they look exactly the same to you, folks. It's

645
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: entirely possible. It's entirely possible too that if Frosty committed this,

646
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: with this heinous crime, that it might have been. Maybe

647
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: Frosty one committed the crime, but Frosty two is the

648
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: one who unfortunately paid entirely Yeah, and you know, Frosty

649
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: one was kind of a scheezy character, at least scording

650
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: to our anonymous source. Yeah, so here's so you're the theories.

651
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: So evidence in favor of Frosty was a murderer, Well,

652
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: small bits of bark were found in the vicinity of

653
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: the child's body. That's Robert Irving and also theater Bundy

654
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: said that when he saw Frosty and Irving together, Frosty

655
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: had one of his stick hands on Irving's shoulder and

656
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: kind of a creepy way. I don't know, I guess

657
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: if I mean, you know you mentioned stick hands, right,

658
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: I just don't know that that Frosty would have had

659
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: the sheer upper body strength to commit a crime like

660
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: was committed to uh irving, Yeah were sticks? Yeah yeah,

661
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: so that's uh, that's kind of like that kind of

662
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 1: like makes it seem kind of unlikely. Yeah, it seems

663
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: unlikely to me too. But if Frosty wasn't the killer,

664
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: then who was? I don't know. I think that's an

665
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: unsolved this is I don't know why we would bring

666
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: this one up, because it seems like it's a show

667
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: in and of itself. Yeah, I mean we should have

668
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: held us back. Damn it. We'll resurrect it and flog

669
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: it to death next Christmas. Yeah, yeah, so I would.

670
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna go with Frosty was not not

671
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: the killer. And who knows who the killer was? I

672
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: mean yeah, I we'll never know. Probably, Yeah, I mean

673
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: maybe Theodore Bundy, that kid, I don't know, Maybe he's around,

674
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: maybe he'll maybe he knows something. We'll see if we

675
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: can find him, should track him downbook, Yeah, everybody's on faceboard,

676
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: thank you one of the two. Yeah, I don't know.

677
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: I I just yeah, I agree, with Joe. I don't

678
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: think Frosty really could have done it. Yeah, yeah, that's well,

679
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: that's the hard part, especially again there's two of them

680
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: and it just yeah, maybe the two of them like

681
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: ganged up on the kid. Maybe, but neither looked like

682
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: they could you do anything of any note. Yeah, I

683
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: think it. I mean, let's face it, people get murdered

684
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: all the time, even in small towns, right, just regular

685
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: old human beings. I think I might know if if

686
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: Frosty did it. I think I know how Frosty might

687
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: have done it. Have you ever heard of Burking? Oh? Yeah,

688
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: what Burking? You know who Burke and Hair are, right,

689
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 1: they're the guys. It was eighteen hundreds of England killed

690
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of people to sell them to the schools

691
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: for autopsies. And they were they tended to be inebriated

692
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: people or sickly so, but they couldn't show any signs

693
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: of being abused to. What these guys would do is

694
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: they would sit on their chest to compress their lungs

695
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: and then put their hand over their mouth and nose

696
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 1: and suffocate them. That's called after Birken Hair, it's called burking. Yeah,

697
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: even possible that Frosty could have done that, especially to

698
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: a little kid. Frosty would be heavy enough to cause

699
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: that kind of damage. Yeah, but we're again, this is

700
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: this isn't just suddenly. It's one of those things that

701
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: hit me. But Robert Irving was actually there were signs

702
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: of strangulation though, oh yeah they were okay, so actually okay, yeah,

703
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: but yeah, I guess it doesn't matter. The towns out there, Snowman,

704
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: and as far as everybody's concerned, the mystery is solved.

705
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: I don't think it really is. I don't either. I

706
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: don't know if we'll ever know. Probably not. Um yeah, well, uh,

707
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: if folks want to know more, they can find more.

708
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: There's a lot out there. We'll put some of that

709
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: information on our website. We should probably link that site,

710
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: or the two Frosti site. I'll definitely do that if

711
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: you want to find the information that we're we've got

712
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: up for you, and you can listen to this episode

713
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: in any other episode and download or stream. The website is,

714
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: of course, thinking sideways podcast dot com. You can leave

715
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: a comment there if you've got other things that you

716
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: want to say to us, or if you've got feedback

717
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: episode suggestions. You can always go ahead and send us

718
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: an email. That email address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at

719
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. We most people, it seems, are getting

720
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: the podcast off of iTunes if they're downloading. If you're

721
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: on iTunes, do take the time to leave a comment

722
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: aerating that is great. That's how other people find us.

723
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: If you like to stream the show, we're everywhere for

724
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: streaming at this point essentially, so whatever service you use,

725
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: we're probably on there. We are always a course on

726
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: social media, so we have our Facebook page where we

727
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: have you can like the Facebook page or you can

728
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: join the group. We are on Twitter at Thinking Sideways

729
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: and we do a bunch of tweeting. We've got the

730
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 1: subreddit Thinking Sideways, and of course then there is always

731
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: PayPal and Patreon. So if you're enjoying the show and

732
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: you want to contribute your more than welcome to do that,

733
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: totally voluntary, and there's a PayPal link on the website.

734
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: And if you want to do more of a sustaining situation,

735
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: you're welcome to and you would do that by going

736
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: to Patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways. Um, yeah, that's

737
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: really all of the stuff that we've got there, so

738
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: I guess we will enjoy your holiday a body next week,

739
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: yeahry Chris, next year, next year. Yeah that's right. No,

740
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: not quite, not quite. I'm sorry. Yeah, I we'll see

741
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: you at the end of this year. Yeah, by everybody.

742
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: Bye bye. They do not forget to edit Mike's name

743
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: out right, No, no, no, no, that's why we're recording.

744
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: This is going to kill me. Literally. Hello, this is

745
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: the voicemail for thinking sideways. We're not taking your call

746
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 1: right now. Please leave a message after the beep. Your mother,

747
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 1: your facking mother, soule mother. I told you to keep

748
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: my name out of it. I told you not to

749
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: say that it was Mike from Sword and Scale talking

750
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: about how the Igo Ma killed Frosty the snow Man.

751
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: What do you do You put it out there for

752
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: everyone to hear. I'll tell you what. I'm going into

753
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: hiding for the next couple of weeks. But when I

754
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: come back, you're on my list. You better watch out,

755
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: you better not cry. Watch it back. H