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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

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Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

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Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five, or.

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Speaker 2: Shot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Trust Me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived to you,

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Speaker 3: and we never have a live.

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Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 1: don't welcome. Welcome, Welcome to trust Me, the podcast about cult,

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Speaker 1: extreme belief and the abusive power from two a fashion

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Speaker 1: Eustas have actually experienced it. I'm Lo La Blanc and

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Speaker 1: I am Megan Elizabeth, and today is part two of

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Speaker 1: our interview with Glenn Carter, the UK leader of the

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Speaker 1: Ralian Movement, a group commonly referred to as a UFO cult.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the cloning controversy that the

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Speaker 1: group was in the news for a while back. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about his relationship with Rail himself the profit,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to get into a pretty long

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Speaker 1: and heavy duty debate on power dynamics and personal responsibility

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Speaker 1: versus manipulation or coercion, and just.

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Speaker 2: A little trigger warning for the debate. It could be

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Speaker 2: very what's the word triggering?

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Speaker 1: I know, I know it's a word not everyone likes.

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Speaker 1: It could be.

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Speaker 2: Triggering, trigering, Yeah, especially if you have suffered from sexual assaults.

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Speaker 1: So just beware. We get into a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit more of why it uh bothered us at the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go pretty ham on just

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Speaker 1: clarifying some things that are important to me as someone

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Speaker 1: who is both a victim of sexual assault and also

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Speaker 1: you know, for our listeners, many of whom are also

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Speaker 1: victims of manipulation and such. So stay tuned for all

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Speaker 1: of that. Is gonna get real, y'all before we get

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Speaker 1: into it. Megan, yes, please tell me what the colty

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Speaker 1: thing that's happened to you this week.

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Speaker 2: It's it's so easy this week because I've gone on

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Speaker 2: a deep dive of nexium again. We've interviewed so many.

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Speaker 1: Our favorite group, our favorite group.

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Speaker 2: And uh yeah wow, So Nancy his right hand man

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Speaker 2: woman going to jail. It's years. It's not enough years,

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Speaker 2: but it's two and a half years, I believe, maybe three.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of sucks. But Lauren, her daughter, not

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Speaker 2: going to jail at all.

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Speaker 1: Wait isn't Lauren the one who like kept the girl

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Speaker 1: captive for like ten years in a house?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Wow, that was kind of the big shock for people.

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Speaker 2: Like they said at the court hearing, Lauren just like

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Speaker 2: dropped her head and started crying because she thought for

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Speaker 2: sure her mom was gonna, you know, get like some

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Speaker 2: hoouse harassed or something.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, a little chill. Wow. Do we know

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Speaker 1: why Lauren didn't get any jail time?

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Speaker 2: I have no idea, But I also saw that the

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Speaker 2: doctor that was giving them their branding, she just got

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Speaker 2: her medical license revoked, which thank god.

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Speaker 1: No, that's a good thing. Yeah. Fuck, it's crazy. I

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Speaker 1: really really struggle with length of jail time and what's appropriate.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about this a million times before. But just

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Speaker 1: like you know, because in theory I do not I

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Speaker 1: do not believe in a punitive justice system. However, that

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Speaker 1: is the only version of justice that we currently have.

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Speaker 1: So we can't just like start being forgiving to people

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Speaker 1: who have caused real harm when we are not yet

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Speaker 1: in a system that allows that hard to be repaired

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Speaker 1: in some other way. My mom you're gonna get real

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Speaker 1: for a second, y'all's triggering episode. My mom was raped

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid by a man who broke

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Speaker 1: into our house. Wow, I was awake for it. I

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Speaker 1: heard her screaming sorry. It's very triggering that man. And

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Speaker 1: this is like best case scenario, right, because most rapes

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Speaker 1: are not like this. Most rapes are with somebody that

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't tell if they're violent, you're like

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Speaker 1: confused about what happened. Like that is the majority of rape.

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Speaker 1: In this case, she was what is called the perfect

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Speaker 1: victim where it was violent. It was like a literal

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Speaker 1: break in. This man went.

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Speaker 2: To jail for two years I think that's.

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Speaker 1: And had raped other women but did not get convicted

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Speaker 1: for those rapes because they were blamed. It's like a

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Speaker 1: whole fucking thing. So it's like when we are utilizing

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system that we have, It's like people

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Speaker 1: are in prison for years and years and years and

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Speaker 1: years for marijuana offenses, but then people who have like

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Speaker 1: physically traumatized other humans go to jail for like two years.

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Speaker 1: It's insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when a man jerked off against my window pane

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Speaker 2: and I had to call the LAPD Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Two very nice men cops came and went inside of

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Speaker 2: my house and sat down and they were like, we

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Speaker 2: just have to tell you the LAPD does not give

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Speaker 2: a flying fuck. Yeah about this. There's there was somebody

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Speaker 2: in my neighborhood raping people. They're like, it's probably him.

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Speaker 2: They don't care. They only care about drug offenses because

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Speaker 2: that's where money is.

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Speaker 1: So we'll take it.

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Speaker 2: We'll write this down and we'll take it back and

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Speaker 2: do it's going to be thrown away. We're just telling

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Speaker 2: you love how much the system cares about women, And

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Speaker 2: I'm great, that's cool. We care about women and people

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Speaker 2: of color totally.

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Speaker 1: Is that's who they value clearly?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Lord, Okay, well my culty is thing. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like to, I would love what is the I

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Speaker 1: just this Britney spears stuff her she's finally free of

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Speaker 1: her dad's oppressive conservatorship. God thank god. So if anyone's

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Speaker 1: not been keeping up with the news, although I feel

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Speaker 1: like everywhere we almost know about this at this point.

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Speaker 1: But she made a statement saying she was being forced

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Speaker 1: to work seven days a week. She didn't have a choice.

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Speaker 1: She had surveillance of all of her conversations in her room,

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Speaker 1: on her phone, everywhere. They were fucking surveilling her. A

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Speaker 1: woman in her thirties making all of her decisions about

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Speaker 1: what she was gonna do with her money, how often

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Speaker 1: she was gonna work essentially like slave labor. And this

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Speaker 1: is one of the most famous people in the world

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Speaker 1: and this happened to her. I mean, this is so crazy.

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Speaker 1: But she's finally free thanks to the fans and a

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Speaker 1: couple gals I know who have a podcast about it and

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Speaker 1: been spreading awareness about it that shout out to y'all.

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Speaker 1: So the conservatorship under her father, he's officially gone. And

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Speaker 1: now I guess in November there's going to be another

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Speaker 1: hearing where they're going to probably remove the conservatorship entirely

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Speaker 1: so she will have control over her own life again.

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Speaker 1: You really think that, like, oh, well, once you have

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Speaker 1: money and fame, you are powerful and you can do

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Speaker 1: whatever you want. But it's like, no, people can abuse

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Speaker 1: you and take advantage of you and have total control

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Speaker 1: of your life no matter what your status is. As

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Speaker 1: evidenced also by like FKA Twigs in a fully abusive

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Speaker 1: relationship with Shilah Buff. FK Twigs is someone I think

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Speaker 1: of as so cool and powerful and smart and got

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Speaker 1: our shit together. It can happen to anyone in so

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Speaker 1: many different forms, like what the I never had even

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Speaker 1: fucking heard of a conservatorship before this, Britney Spears start right?

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Speaker 2: Did you watch any of Lula Rich or what is

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Speaker 2: it Lula lu lu lu La Roux but the Rich

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Speaker 2: the documentary documentary?

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Speaker 1: Not yet? Okay, watch that so we can talk about

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Speaker 1: it next week. Okay, is so good? Well, I really

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Speaker 1: want to have a guest on who went through that,

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Speaker 1: so we should drive mind someone absolutely. Okay, y'all, it's

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Speaker 1: time to get back into this interview. We left off

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Speaker 1: last week just talking about how Glenn became the UK

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Speaker 1: leader of the Raelian movement also known as Ralism or Relianism.

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Speaker 1: We talked about how he was an actor before and

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Speaker 1: a musician and some of the beliefs, how they believe

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Speaker 1: that the elohem which are essentially beings from other planets,

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Speaker 1: are the ones who kind of created us as a humanity.

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Speaker 1: And now we're going to get deep into rail himself

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Speaker 1: power dynamics. Are you ready? Here we go, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this question might be annoying you probably

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Speaker 1: get this all the time, but I have to ask

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Speaker 1: about two thousand and two Brigitte Wassile. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how use their name Wassil.

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Speaker 3: How do you say your name that beautiful? I don't care.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure ordn't care either.

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Speaker 1: So she was the head of Cloning, an organization that

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Speaker 1: was set up by the movement to focus on cloning,

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Speaker 1: and publicly claimed to have cloned a human baby, never

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Speaker 1: provided the evidence that she said she would, and journalists

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Speaker 1: and scientists ultimately concluded that it was a hoax. So

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Speaker 1: what happened with that? Do you know?

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Speaker 3: I was on TV discussing this whilst it was happening

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Speaker 3: in Britain, with fact lots of minds views were shown

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Speaker 3: in America. No, I've no idea what happened. Except one

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Speaker 3: thing I can talk about is if, as they can

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Speaker 3: talk about because with any authority, because I don't know

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Speaker 3: anything about anything, if I was to have cloned a

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Speaker 3: human being, and I said to the world I've cloned

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Speaker 3: a human being, and I'm going to offer the proof

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Speaker 3: that was my intention, That's one thing. If then the

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Speaker 3: country that I am a subject in, as in I'm

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Speaker 3: a citizen of Great Britain. If they then passed a

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Speaker 3: law saying that any British citizen anywhere in the world,

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Speaker 3: it is illegal for that person to clone a human being,

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Speaker 3: an extradition will be sought wherever possible for the rest

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Speaker 3: of that person's life. If they show any indication at

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Speaker 3: all of either in the past experimenting on human cloning,

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Speaker 3: having done it successfully, or making claims, we will pursue

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Speaker 3: them with the full extent of the law and put

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Speaker 3: them in prison. Would you then offer the proof only

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Speaker 3: a forward? Only a forward. So when the French government

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Speaker 3: got together with the American government and passed laws saying

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Speaker 3: a it is illegal be a French citizen anywhere in

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Speaker 3: the world, they strengthened the extradition to France and America,

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Speaker 3: and they start saying, you cannot now any French citizen

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Speaker 3: anywhere in the world. It's a full thirty year prison sentence.

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Speaker 3: Whatever they actually decided, I forget now to soe many

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Speaker 3: years ago. Okay, then find I won't give you the proof.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't give you the evidence. I wouldn't give you

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Speaker 3: the evidence. I'd be like whatever. So the law that

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Speaker 3: I was watching develop, that's what happened. I didn't speak

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Speaker 3: to bridget throughout this whole thinker. She was very busy,

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Speaker 3: and I was just asked my ethical thoughts on cloning

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Speaker 3: being Aralian, as she's Aralian, and that's all I can

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Speaker 3: talk about. But I did watch the law change in France,

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Speaker 3: and it did change and there's effect. And I did

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Speaker 3: watch the extradition between France and and America being strengthened

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Speaker 3: by the presidents of the United States, and that did happen.

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Speaker 3: And so I wasn't in the vaguest bit surprised that

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Speaker 3: nothing ever came out, because no, of course, nobody wants

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Speaker 3: it to come out. If it's true, it's scary for

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Speaker 3: many many people, especially if the government are in full

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Speaker 3: control of it, and they weren't. They still aren't because

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Speaker 3: they're not legislating, they're not discussing, they're not having an

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Speaker 3: open debate, which is what's important. We're still not.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't that banned in two thousand and one, which was

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Speaker 1: the year before she made the announcement, what ban the

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Speaker 1: ban on human cloning?

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Speaker 3: Again? In some countries they banned human cloning as in

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Speaker 3: reproductive human poning. Most countries hadn't banned it, like America,

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Speaker 3: most countries had discussed banning it, but hadn't yet banned it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I meant, I meant in France.

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Speaker 3: In France, no, they discussed banning stuff. It is discussed.

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Speaker 3: They're saying we're going to ban this. We got But

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Speaker 3: things are banned only when they're banned. And it's also

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Speaker 3: very very easy to say we are now we're going

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Speaker 3: to put a green passport in place for all of Europe. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've been here in that six months and year. Two

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Speaker 3: years will be five years, it will be eight years.

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Speaker 3: Because the law is massively complex, it's not easy to

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Speaker 3: do so to talk about it, but actually banning it

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Speaker 3: is something completely different. So had that happened. No, of

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Speaker 3: course not so, because no laws were ever broken to

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Speaker 3: my knowledge, and certainly not seen any accusations of any

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Speaker 3: laws actually being broken by Bridget during those debates, although

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Speaker 3: again I'm not qualified to talk about it. I wasn't

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Speaker 3: following her. I was talking epically about do I think

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Speaker 3: potential of cloning is a good thing or a bad thing?

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Speaker 3: Do I know what happened? No, except I do know

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Speaker 3: absolutely no insane human being under the criteria that the

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Speaker 3: French and the America government working together to make happen,

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Speaker 3: would have ever offered proof at any point from the

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Speaker 3: moment the law was changed in France and in America

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Speaker 3: in order to stop it happening. And there's lots of reasons,

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Speaker 3: and we could debate without any knowledge that because I

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Speaker 3: have no knowledge of that, I could say, but the

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Speaker 3: American military, of course they will have done it, because

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Speaker 3: why wouldn't they have the technology, The British military, the

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Speaker 3: French military. I don't know any of that, and how

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Speaker 3: could I I'm just an a musician with the Railian person. Yes,

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Speaker 3: opinions on these things, but like so much airtime, just

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Speaker 3: people's opinions.

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Speaker 1: So there aren't like official positions coming down from real Basically,

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Speaker 1: you're just kind of deciding for yourself what you think.

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Speaker 3: Well, no one's ever no one's ever said to me

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Speaker 3: what I should think. If they did, I'm sorry, excuse me.

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Speaker 3: I know I'm not don't tell me what to think,

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Speaker 3: and certainly don't ever think you can tell me what

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Speaker 3: I'm allowed to talk about. If you don't like what

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Speaker 3: I say, really, movement, and if you don't like anything

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Speaker 3: I've said, into kick me out. I'll just go Okay,

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Speaker 3: thank you about a great time. I love your movement,

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Speaker 3: and if you don't mind, that's still come along and

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Speaker 3: teach meditation for you. But I'm not afraid of you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not afraid of you kicking me out. I'm not

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Speaker 3: afraid of being running it or not running. I don't care.

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Speaker 3: I don't care about those stupid minutia, pointless ego driven

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Speaker 3: things like I don't care. So if someone tells me

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Speaker 3: what to say, good luck, good luck, because I'm not easily.

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Speaker 1: Controlled, museum quite strong minded.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, Like it's like I'm not gonna I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna pretend not to be either. I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: be all. It's a very wonderful thing. And there're an

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Speaker 3: philosophy about humility, but humility is something that I struggle with.

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Speaker 3: I struggle with. I'm not going to be. Oh, of course,

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Speaker 3: I defer my my everything to your wonderful wisdom because

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Speaker 3: you're two months older than me and all of that

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Speaker 3: living you who gives I like, No, I have an opinion,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes my opinion is dead right. Sometimes it's dead wrong,

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Speaker 3: and that's just the truth of life, you know. And

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Speaker 3: if it's wrong, and if someone can show me that

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Speaker 3: I am wrong, I'll say you're absolutely right, I didn't

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Speaker 3: think that through, or I'm wrong, I'm uncomfortable without being

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Speaker 3: wrong about that particular issue. Whatever. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: i'd say, because it's.

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Speaker 1: Not do you like talk to rail? Do you guys hang?

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Speaker 1: What's your like level of contact?

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Speaker 3: Yes, there's not not for not for a while, actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, not not for a while because because he

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Speaker 3: now lives in in in Asia, so I don't see

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Speaker 3: him so much generally because because I'm an actor for

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Speaker 3: one thing, and I am either working and I'm not

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Speaker 3: allowed to take time off because often if I'm in something,

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Speaker 3: i'm the lead role and therefore after and build or

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, they don't like me to take

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Speaker 3: holidays during a contract, et cetera. And when I'm not

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Speaker 3: working on penniless, I've got the money, so I've had

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Speaker 3: a business and run other things, so I can potentially

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Speaker 3: travel sometimes. But often if I work well for a

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Speaker 3: couple of years, I work well and I earned good money,

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Speaker 3: then I might not work for three years to let

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Speaker 3: that level. So then I have to budget it. I

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Speaker 3: have to budget they're five thousand pounds a week. I

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Speaker 3: got over the next four years. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: that five grand a week becomes payable in tax at

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Speaker 3: forty percent, which removes it down to to like fifteen

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Speaker 3: hundred pounds a week.

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Speaker 1: Whatever, why, I know the struggle and then you're spreading

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Speaker 1: it out.

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Speaker 3: Then you're spreading that fifteen hundred pounds over within five years.

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Speaker 3: So really I only earned two hundred pound a week,

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Speaker 3: So how the fuck can I survive on that and

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Speaker 3: go to two pounds? So no, I don't. I haven't

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Speaker 3: seen him for a while, but did I used to

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Speaker 3: have lunch with him when he was in Britain. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's an interview's interesting. He'd love you. He loves artistic,

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Speaker 3: creative people. He'd love to hear your opinions. He'd love

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Speaker 3: to go Oh that's interesting thought. Yeah, I had that thought.

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Speaker 3: I don't agree with you on that. Why would you

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Speaker 3: say that you have a proper conversation with you. He's

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Speaker 3: not He's not untouchable and he's not He's just he's

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Speaker 3: an interesting character. You know. Yes, I've hung up with him.

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Speaker 1: Would you know walking down the street seeing rail, would

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Speaker 1: there be something like special about him that you would notice?

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Speaker 1: Or is just like regular guy?

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Speaker 3: Well? If I if I walk down the street and

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Speaker 3: saw rail, you.

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Speaker 1: Go glare now right, Well, if I walk down the street,

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Speaker 1: if you.

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Speaker 3: Walk down the street, he'd probably notice it charisma first

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Speaker 3: and foremost. Then he'd notice you're a woman. Then he'd

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Speaker 3: noticed or you know, excuse me, I'm not telling you

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Speaker 3: how you're identifying, big faux path, but you know, he

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Speaker 3: will notice that you're a charismatic, alive, awake person, and

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Speaker 3: because but that's who he is. I mean, look, look

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Speaker 3: what you do. You're an artist, you're running a you know, podcast,

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Speaker 3: you do all the stuff you do. So of course

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Speaker 3: I'm right what I'm saying. You know, you're you're you're

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Speaker 3: beautiful girl. Who's going to notice that he's a heterosexual

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00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 3: male even though he's eighty years or seventeen, thanks, so

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Speaker 3: I should know all these things. I'm not raily correct

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Speaker 3: in the sense that I don't know exactly how old

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Speaker 3: he is. I don't care as long as he's happy

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00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,879
Speaker 3: and healthy, mind, but he would notice you, and he

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Speaker 3: would he'd notice how he dresses because he wears often

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Speaker 3: weird white clothes and he does that on purpose so

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Speaker 3: that some people. Let me tell you a little story,

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Speaker 3: is that the moment I became Railian and people knew it,

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Speaker 3: and I was outed by that actress said he believes

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Speaker 3: and he believes in aliens and all this stuff, and

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Speaker 3: people started to ask why and who this guy who

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Speaker 3: played Jesus believes that aliens and all that nonsense. That

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Speaker 3: happened for years, But from that moment onwards, I used

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Speaker 3: to walk into a room. Before that, i'd walk into

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Speaker 3: a room because I'm a heterosexual male, right and a

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Speaker 3: lot of the time, I'm very open. So I was

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Speaker 3: always getting my heart broken. I was always getting lighted

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Speaker 3: by somebody, and I believe everything anybody said to me,

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Speaker 3: So I was like any partner. So it was always,

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Speaker 3: you know, totally always open to getting my heart broken.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't ever have to carry baggage, so I

359
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Speaker 3: was just always stupid and always always like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're love it really like you let's you know, let's

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Speaker 3: let's have fun to get over. So I was always

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Speaker 3: very open. And at that time, I'd walk into a

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Speaker 3: room and people somebody I'd noticed, some people would you know,

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00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 3: be smiling, some people would be smiling, just general normalness

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Speaker 3: of how you walk into a room and meet people.

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Speaker 3: The moment I became known as being ralliant. Everything changed

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Speaker 3: in the sense that I stayed exactly the same, but

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Speaker 3: how people perceivedly changed overnight. So I'd walk into a

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Speaker 3: room and you get some people going to don't look.

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Speaker 3: You see all of that all the time, and then

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Speaker 3: some people walk over to me and they go, like,

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Speaker 3: I watch to Stephen Ashfield, who is a Christian, and

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Speaker 3: he's one of the nicest, most loving, kind sweet talented

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Speaker 3: Scottish actors. You know, he's an amazing, lovely friend of

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Speaker 3: mine now. And when I first met him, we did

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Speaker 3: Jersey Boys together. He was Bob Gordio and I was

377
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Speaker 3: Tom Vito and this is the original West End cast.

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Speaker 3: And it came over to me on the first day

379
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Speaker 3: and went, I wanted to talk to you. You believe

380
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Speaker 3: that aliens exist, and you believe that they created life

381
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Speaker 3: in the same way as I believe in in God

382
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 3: created life. We've got to sit down and have a

383
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Speaker 3: conversation about this. You also meet proper true human character

384
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Speaker 3: like that, honest, open, not afraid totally. So everything changed

385
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Speaker 3: for me in the sense that I suddenly could see

386
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Speaker 3: people for exactly who they were because of the way

387
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Speaker 3: that they thought I was a manipulator, a sex cult

388
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Speaker 3: whatever they thought, all mental imbalanced that I see all

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Speaker 3: this mental imbalance in people. I want to know you,

390
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Speaker 3: and I want to know you look I do, because

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Speaker 3: you know you're clearly smart, right. I think you disagree

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Speaker 3: with most of the stuff I'm talking about, But I

393
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 3: think I'd love to do what you actually really think,

394
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Speaker 3: because I'd love the actually to actually do that, because

395
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Speaker 3: that's who I am, and that's who Stephen is. Rail

396
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Speaker 3: wears clothes in the same way that I now wear

397
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Speaker 3: and Carter the Raelian cult leader in this is the

398
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 3: fact that he walks into a room and everybody is

399
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 3: wearing a big flashing beacon on their head by the

400
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 3: way that we judge every single person we meet. He

401
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 3: wears it in his clothes. So he wears that and

402
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 3: people respond to him and react to him in a

403
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 3: way that he can see you for exactly who you are.

404
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 3: And it's part of the technique that he uses in

405
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 3: order to either give you time or not waste time.

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Speaker 1: So he knows that people think of him as a

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Speaker 1: cult leader, and he owns it and like purposely like

408
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: leans into that to get a reaction. Basically, yeah, why

409
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: not make interesting why not?

410
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Speaker 3: Why hide? From what reason would he person we have

411
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 3: to do that. He fairly doesn't walk around going part

412
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Speaker 3: to see I Am coming with his hands on his hips.

413
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 3: He just walks around into a room and he wears

414
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 3: this stuff and he goes and sits in the restaurant

415
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: and people going who's that guy over there? Who's that

416
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 3: guy over there? And some people come and say what

417
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 3: who are you? And I'll say, oh, my name's Rayle.

418
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 3: Is my website? Check it out. He doesn't do anything

419
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 3: other than that. Like, it's not like he does it

420
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 3: in order to get special treatment. He doesn't need that.

421
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: He doesn't live in that environment where he would need

422
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 3: special treatment. People respect him. So what more special treatment

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Speaker 3: is that? An actual respect from people? Wow?

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Speaker 1: Well, I do have to ask one question about that.

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00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 1: It's actually a multi tiered question because you've used the

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Speaker 1: term sex cult a couple of times. I actually didn't

427
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Speaker 1: ever know that that was a part of the perception,

428
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Speaker 1: but I did some research. I've known about Realianism for

429
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: like twelve years. One of my good friends used to

430
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Speaker 1: read all about it and was really interested in it.

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Speaker 1: Actually he's my best friend, but you know, we didn't

432
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: talk about it for years, so only in doing research

433
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: for this interview did I stumble upon some of this information.

434
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you about a couple things.

435
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: So there was a Playboy spread in two thousand and

436
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: five Rail's Girls. It's Rail with some of the women

437
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: who are part of the movement, and they're posing naked.

438
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: There's also a group of women in Burkina Fosso there's

439
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 1: a brilliant community there, right.

440
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, bikini Fasto is in Africa, so it is

441
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 3: part of the culture to be fairly topless in that

442
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 3: sort of environment of male and female. It's not just

443
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 3: the women who are topless in that environment, it's men

444
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 3: to heaven forbid with their nipples and all.

445
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 1: Well, yes, yes, so that totally makes sense. But then

446
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: there are like six women. I learned this from watching

447
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: a documentary. So if I'm getting something wrong, correct me.

448
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: But there are six elite members of this group and

449
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: they're called Real's Angels. Okay, And my understanding was that

450
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: Rail kind of sleeps with these women and that's there

451
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: are sort of like his girlfriends or whatever. Is that correct?

452
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have a clue. I don't know who do

453
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: you sleep with?

454
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean, like my boyfriend?

455
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, who else? Come on? Do you an attractive girl?

456
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: I'm an attractive guy. We're only separated by the by

457
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: the Atlantic Ocean? Well, you know what's do you know

458
00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,479
Speaker 3: what I mean?

459
00:22:59,560 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: Like?

460
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 3: Who do you really care? Honestly, if I was in

461
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 3: a position where I had five, six, fifty six or

462
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: even one beautiful woman, because that's my that's my sexual

463
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: orientation is heterosexual male. So that wanted to spend time

464
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: with me, and I really liked them, and I wanted

465
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 3: to spend time with them. Whose permission am I supposed

466
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: to ask?

467
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: Just?

468
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 3: Who is it?

469
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: Ah?

470
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 3: There he goes. It's just entirely up to me and

471
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: up to them. So if I am sure, without a

472
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: question of a doubt that Rail has had sex with

473
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: more than six people in his entire life, because I have,

474
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: you know, more than two hundred? Probably not me, you know,

475
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: probably not in that's definitely not. But it's better if

476
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 3: I say maybe thousands of them. Depends who cares. I don't.

477
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: I don't know who anybody sleeps with because they don't

478
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: make it any of my business. Is there an order

479
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 3: within the rail movement called angels? Yes, but my understanding

480
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: of the Angel Order is that it is a support

481
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 3: group for women within a movement, because the movement primarily

482
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: is run by women, So those women also have a

483
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: support group. Because what is probably throughout human history the

484
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 3: biggest oppressed and exploited group in human history probably women.

485
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: So I would suggest that if women can get together

486
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 3: and have a self development, personal growth organization within any organization,

487
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 3: then I support that. If they want to sleep with

488
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 3: Joe and you know or Julie or expertson, then good

489
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: luck to them, good luck to let ma. Sex is

490
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 3: anything organized as anything mandated? Absolutely not. Are individual adults

491
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 3: free always to be sexual expressive within the Rail movement?

492
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: Of course they are just like you are at work,

493
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,959
Speaker 3: just like I am at work in the theater. If

494
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: I choose, and if the person wants that with me,

495
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 3: am I allowed to pursue it. Of course I am

496
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: the law against it. So these things absolutely exist as

497
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 3: part of human interrelations. And does Rail have sex with people?

498
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: I hope. So the longer and the healthier he is sexually,

499
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: the more likelihood the longer he's going to be mentally

500
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: and emotionally healthy, and the same for all of us.

501
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: So as long as everyone's consenting. If there is everyone,

502
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 3: If it's multiple people, fantastic, good good luck to him

503
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 3: or anyone else. As long as everybody is free, everybody

504
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: makes their own choices, nobody is coerced, nobody is in

505
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: any way having will imposed upon them, then it's the

506
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: freedom of human human beings. It's part of human rights.

507
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 3: Is anything organized in the really movements for our sex goes?

508
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely not. But do I know that last time Rail

509
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: had sex with someone and who it was? No, Like

510
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: you know, if I live as long as he's lived,

511
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: and I can still I want to use words that

512
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: probably shouldn't. If I if I do get it up

513
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: and take, you know, sustain an erection and have sex

514
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: with somebody who wants to do that with me, and

515
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: I can give them some loving, lovely experience in their

516
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 3: life and in my life, then that's a good thing. Surely.

517
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: That's that's all I have to say about it. Anything

518
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 3: else don't I don't know. I don't know, just like

519
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: I don't know what the American government or the British

520
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 3: government are thinking. I don't know what I was thinking.

521
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 3: I don't know what he's what he's doing, except if

522
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 3: he or any Ralian anywhere on the planet did anything

523
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: that I knew about and could prove, or even heard

524
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: about and could investigate in order to find out that

525
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 3: was illegal, immoral, or cause the damage to anybody. I

526
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: will be the biggest and loudest advocate against that philosophy

527
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: and that movement than anyone any of the detractors that

528
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: say it's sex cult, it's this, that, and over, because

529
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: I've got a big mouth, and I will make my

530
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: voice heard however long it takes. I will stand for

531
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 3: the person who's getting bullied or controlled. And I say

532
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: that with complete and utter lack of humility. I will

533
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: go to my death fighting anybody who wishes to bully

534
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 3: anybody else or exploit anybody else. That is my pledge

535
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 3: to myself, and I don't give a shit what anybody

536
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: else thinks about that. I will not tolerate it anywhere

537
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 3: around me bad behavior. Therefore, as I've never come across

538
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: it in the movement, I'm comfortable within the movement.

539
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: You know, as someone who is in the entertainment industry,

540
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: I think you're probably you know very well aware of

541
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: like two subtle power dynamics that happen where you know

542
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: a Weinstein type or whatever, the cast and couch situation

543
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: where a person might not be explicitly instructed to physically

544
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: engage with someone, but there is an inherent power in

545
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: balance because one of the people in the room has

546
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: the power to, you know, change the life of the

547
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: other person in the room. So it's very hard to

548
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: call those encounters contensual.

549
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I agree, Yeah, I agree.

550
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: I only bring that up because I'm like, well, if

551
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: I believe that Rail is an actual prophet on Earth

552
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: who is half Elohem, and I think he's the you know,

553
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: literally the living prophet on earth today's Jesus, don't you

554
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: think that that is an inherent power and balance if

555
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: I believe that about Rael, don't you think that, you know,

556
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: even if he doesn't like, explicitly instruct me to do anything,

557
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: that that would create a dynamic that is such that

558
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: I maybe could feel like I should regardless of how

559
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I actually feel about it.

560
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: Yes, And it is an incredibly important question. In fact,

561
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: amongst any question we've talked about today, is probably the

562
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: most important in my life opinion, certainly in the fact

563
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 3: that in our industry and in the theater, I have

564
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 3: fought to nail the exploitation of women in the evening.

565
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say any of the names of

566
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 3: the theaters, but the theater industry here knows them well

567
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 3: and knows my circumstances where I fought them, where we've

568
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: been filmed in showers, where women have been exploited, where

569
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: felt the need, and I have become and got a reputation,

570
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: have been difficult as a result, and I am proud

571
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: of that reputation. But do I think that somebody in

572
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: the position of this sort as a rock star? Do

573
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 3: you know I mean, because you only believe that rail

574
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 3: is you know, you know this, that and the other.

575
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 3: If you if you're alien, And I don't want what

576
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 3: I'm going to say to be confused by it's only

577
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: people who think in raili in terms that should have

578
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: this thought process. We all are responsible for ourselves, and

579
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: that includes the rock star. That includes it includes him.

580
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 3: He's responsible for how what he is aware of in

581
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: the environment that he is. He's responsible for his perception

582
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: of it always, but he cannot be responsible for your

583
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: perception of it. He can only do the best he

584
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: can to encourage you to have the correct perception. Just

585
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: what I'm saying in the same respect as if I

586
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: am This is completely hypothetical, but if I was ever

587
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: in a position where I was an absolute god within

588
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: my industry and that young dancer, theater actresses coming into it,

589
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: all I had to do was go come to my

590
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: room and a girl come to my room, and I

591
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: could do whatever I wanted with that person because they

592
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: were submissive to me in every way. Because I am

593
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 3: this rock star performer. That of course, of course reflects

594
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: on me the type of person I am if I

595
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 3: was to behave like that, no getting away from it.

596
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: But it also becomes a point where if you are

597
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: an adult in an adult world, then you also have

598
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 3: to take responsibility for your own self, and in the

599
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: same regard as right now in the industry in Britain,

600
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 3: there has been discussion and certain some theaters whether saying

601
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: we are considering to mandate the use of the vaccine. Now,

602
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: whether you agree with vaccine or not is irrelevant to me,

603
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: because whether I agree with the vaccine or not is

604
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: irrelevant to what I'm saying is that as soon as

605
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: you start telling me what I have to do, then

606
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: it is my decision to do it or not. I

607
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: am responsible ultimately for what I do, and that is

608
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: in law morally, and that is in human rights. Also,

609
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: if I choose to take a pencil and write beautiful poetry,

610
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 3: if I choose to do that, that's my choice. If

611
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 3: I choose to take the same pencil and stab you

612
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: in the eye, the manufacture of the pencil isn't responsible.

613
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: The manufacture of the paper that had in front of

614
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: me isn't responsible. The only person responsible for my behavior

615
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 3: is me. And although there is absolutely shared responsibility in

616
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: almost every single thing we do, that ultimately has to

617
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: be personal accountability. Also, I have been groped. I have

618
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: been in my life as a younger man. I was

619
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: abused very lightly by people putting their hands down my

620
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: trousers and the theater in the backstage, you know, obviously

621
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: men who are stimulated by younger men. Did I allow

622
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: it No? Did I stand against it and make that

623
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: person uncomfortable and make it public? Yes? Did I fight

624
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: against it? Yes? But if I had chosen not to

625
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: because I wasn't personally confident enough, then I hope that

626
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: the responsibility of a collective responsibility of other people around

627
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: that would support me as a young person. And if

628
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: they don't, then the whole industry has come up. The

629
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: whole movement is corrupt if no one supports anybody when

630
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: they witness something. We are all collectively responsible for the

631
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: well being of everybody around us, but we are also

632
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: individually responsible, and you can't divorce one from the other.

633
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: We're collectively responsible, we're also individually responsible. The rock stars

634
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 3: responsible the victim to a degree at times, although not always,

635
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: of course, not always bears percentage of responsibility at times.

636
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 3: It is impossible to talk specifically in a generalized term

637
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: because I don't agree with that statement that I've just

638
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: made in every circumstance, but I do believe that we

639
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: bear certain amount of responsibility or your best collective responsibility,

640
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: and also a perpetrator of course bears responsibility.

641
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I think it's very

642
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: dangerous to use words like unconfident to refer to people

643
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: who are not speaking out. I think the reality, you know,

644
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: as I've observed in my own life, and this is

645
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: just a broader conversation in general, is that like in

646
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: a perfect world, yes, we would all feel supported to

647
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: come forward. In a perfect world, we would all feel

648
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: strong and capable of talking about what's happened to us.

649
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: But in the actual world that we live in, there

650
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: is a lot, I mean from all sides, from law

651
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: enforcement to our culture that tells us that women lie,

652
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: to the social circumstances that we might be in. For example,

653
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: I personally have been assaulted by people who had more

654
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: power than I did in my industry, and I didn't

655
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: say anything because ultimately, like, you have to weigh what

656
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: the consequences are, and sometimes they're terrifying. Sometimes it's like, well,

657
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose my status in my community

658
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: because someone doesn't believe me, or or maybe I'm just

659
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: making it up. Like there's it's just so much more

660
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: complicated than like, I need to take responsibility for myself

661
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: if I'm in a situation.

662
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 3: Sure, but not do not believe surely that by saying

663
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 3: I had to weigh up whether they someone would believe me,

664
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 3: I had to weigh up whether that person's now too

665
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 3: perth to take away my chosen way of earning a living.

666
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: Do not see that that is you, to a degree,

667
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 3: bear responsibility for the fear. For example, on the last

668
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 3: Big show I did it in the West End. I

669
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: fought and had a guy that seven guys put on

670
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: notice and one guy fired for filming women in the

671
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: shower because they came to me, because they knew they

672
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 3: could trust my mouth, and they knew they could trust

673
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: me morally to stand with the person that was a

674
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: victim of that. They came to me and asked me that,

675
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: and I stood with them, and I was the mouthpiece

676
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 3: of having that person replaced. Now, if the people that

677
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 3: were aware of that situation had chosen not to do that,

678
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 3: to come to me and ask for help, and they'd

679
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: managed to do it on their own, I still want

680
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: to stand with them if they chosen to not do it,

681
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 3: because they have their own reasons for not doing it.

682
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: They're their reasons, they are. That's their responsibility to weigh

683
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 3: up their own thought pers and their own what costs more?

684
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: Is it going to cost me more to speak out

685
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 3: and fight for what I believe is right? Or do

686
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: I think my career ultimately is worth more than fighting

687
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 3: for what I believe is Personally, I've always sacrificed my

688
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: career for what I believe morally to be right. And

689
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that's for everyone, and that's totally everyone's choice,

690
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: but it's certainly where I have worked in the industry,

691
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: I've worked that reputation is my reputation by and large

692
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 3: here in theater, and that's why it's certainly on that

693
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 3: particular show, people who didn't feel that they could stand

694
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: on their own came and asked me for help, and

695
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: I was very happy to give it. So, but that individual,

696
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 3: each person has to take because at what point are

697
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 3: you not responsible for your own choices? We are all responsible.

698
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: I mean, again, this is just a larger philosophical difference,

699
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: because that's also operating from the assumption that we are

700
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: all living and thinking and operating on the same playing

701
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: field of awareness, of awareness about what even sexual assault is,

702
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: of awareness about what it means to come forward. For

703
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: many many victims, they don't even realize that they're victims

704
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: because they're so indoctrinated by their culture or whatever is.

705
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's fair to eliminate the context

706
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: of somebody's experience. I mean, you're a science guy, Like,

707
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: we only know what we are exposed to, right, Like,

708
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: we only have the information that we have, so like

709
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: we can't expect people to have the information that like, oh, look,

710
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: if you've been victimized. Here's what you do, here's how

711
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: you'd be safe. A lot of people don't have any

712
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: resources at all. A lot of people don't even know that.

713
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: I just think like the personal responsibility argument can get

714
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: very problematic very quickly. I think that, like, especially when

715
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: you believe something really strongly, it can make it even

716
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: harder to see anything that could potentially be problematic. And

717
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: all that is to say, I think like, when there

718
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: is somebody with power or it is that person's responsibility

719
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: more than it is the other people's responsibility, you have

720
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: less power.

721
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 3: I totlly agree with you far far.

722
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: More to be mindful of any potential imbalances, any dynamics

723
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: or situations where somebody might feel obligated or feel like

724
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: they have you know whatever I mean. And I'm glad

725
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: to hear you say that. I get the sense that

726
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: you're that kind of person. Like in the documentary, some

727
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: of the women in Burkina Fosso, we're talking about how

728
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: Rail tells them how much weight to lose, and that

729
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: attractiveness is really important. And I think that that is

730
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: the kind of thing also that that rubs me the

731
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: wrong way personally, because again there's a power and balance.

732
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 3: And yeah, totally hear that too. I totally hear that too. Honestly,

733
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: I thought you have I mean, I like you have

734
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 3: Schmid to make your documentary I think you're talking about.

735
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 3: I thought the documentary was it was a huge missed opportunity.

736
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: I thought it was a disappointment beyond you know, I've

737
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: interview meeth that documentary came over here and you know,

738
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: following me around for two or three days, and you know,

739
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: on my boat project, and I took him out on

740
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 3: this boat. We chated, we talked to philosophy, we spoke,

741
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 3: and I spoke to him in exactly way I'm speaking

742
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 3: to you. He used nothing of me, which is totally

743
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 3: his absolute right, which is fine. But there were so

744
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 3: many interesting conversations that we had about stuff that was

745
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: it was. I honestly felt the documentary was in It

746
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: was a sensationalist and trivial and I'm sorry you have

747
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: and public apologies. I shouldn't really express an opinion on

748
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: your artistic work, but I was very disappointed in it

749
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: because I wanted a bit of more grit, a bit

750
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 3: more Come on, get down to some of these proper conversations,

751
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: and let's have the debate and discussion, but I don't

752
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 3: want to wander away just just a little bit, just

753
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: if you don't mind, if I just take a step backwards.

754
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 3: I hear every single thing you're saying about responsibility, and certainly,

755
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 3: which is why I say there's a collective responsibility, and

756
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: why I say the rock star absolutely cannot be at

757
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: any point absolves of responsibility at all. However, it is

758
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 3: a far more dangerous place to be in to say

759
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: that person has no responsibility at all in anything that

760
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: they do, because why Because at what point do I

761
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: think I am this person? They're that person. Therefore I

762
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: have all of the responsibility that they have. Therefore I

763
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 3: should make all of their decisions, and I should be

764
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 3: the one. In fact, I think maybe they should be

765
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 3: locked in a room. I think maybe at some point

766
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 3: we all have responsibility and we do in every single

767
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: thing that we do. I hear one hundred percent what

768
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: you're saying, and I agree with one hundred percent of

769
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 3: what you're saying. You know, in the sense that you

770
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: know it's so easy to condition people to accept modes

771
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: of behavior and things that this is normal when it's not,

772
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: and it mustn't be normal. These things are absolutely wrong

773
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: and we all should fight against them, and I will

774
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 3: till the day I die fight against manipulation, control and

775
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 3: the imposition of anybody's will on anybody else. But it

776
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 3: is a far more dangerous situation to find ourselves in

777
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: to say, but that person doesn't have any responsibility, They

778
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 3: can't bear responsibility because after a look at them, look

779
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 3: at them, they're not capable of being responsible. That's dangerous.

780
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: That is dangerous for anybody in society to say they're

781
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 3: not responsible for anything that they do. Look at them,

782
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: Come on.

783
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: Anything, No, I know.

784
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 3: But going from one extreme to another, which is where

785
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 3: you with respect taking it, which is you know there

786
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: are people who can't bear responsibility. They have to, We

787
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 3: have to. They can't be have responsibility and moved from

788
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 3: them because they are human being with human rights and

789
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: legal protections. In your American constitution, in British law, in

790
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: global human rights law, you have protections. We have protections,

791
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 3: and part of those protections requires us to be responsible.

792
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: We can't absolve ourselves of that. We cannot. And to

793
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: walk a road of I'm not responsible for anything is

794
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: abdicating responsibility to somebody else, which is just asking for trouble,

795
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: and I hear everything, and I certainly do not ever

796
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: support that behavior, not to men, not to women, up

797
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 3: to any children, to particularly any anybody in a vulnerable situation.

798
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean in general, like I think the

799
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 1: baseline generally in the world, especially in America. I don't

800
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 1: know about anywhere else where Realianism exists, but definitely in America.

801
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: There the baseline is an emphasis on personal responsibility. The

802
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 1: foundation of the culture is such that we are all

803
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: expected to fend for ourselves and pull ourselves up, our

804
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: buy our bootstraps and whatever. These science shows though that

805
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: we are all immensely impacted by our environments. We are

806
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: immensely impacted by the culture that we live in, and unfortunately,

807
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: we do live in a complex world full of nuance,

808
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: and it would be so great if it were just

809
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: as easy as taking responsibility for yourself. But the fact

810
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: of the matter is that, like sometimes we are not

811
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: capable because of the information we have or have not

812
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: been exposed to.

813
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 3: I totally agree with and so.

814
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: I'm just very wary of that argument because like, yeah,

815
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: that's that's the foundation. But what's important to me is

816
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: to push forward as a culture in this more complex

817
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: understanding of like, we don't need to blame ourselves for everything,

818
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: because I mean, personally, I don't even believe in free will.

819
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: But that's another conversation, another conversation for another time.

820
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 3: I'd love to have it, but i'd love to have it.

821
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: That's the truth is. And I think I've had similar

822
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: conversations about free will to myself. You and I, from

823
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: everything I hear you say, are not in disagreement. But

824
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: I just want to make sure always that I cannot

825
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: ever even let it dangle there that in any way

826
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: I have the right to judge somebody else's ability to

827
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 3: assess themselves, stand for themselves, have responsibility for themselves. I

828
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 3: simply don't have that right, and neither does any other

829
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: individual you know, as individuals, I can say I just

830
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: don't know, I didn't know, I didn't know anything. I

831
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 3: didn't know anything. But even the law in those examples,

832
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: ignorance of the law isn't a reason not to follow it.

833
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 3: It's just not allowed. So it is a massively complex discussion,

834
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: which I think the crux of it that's important to

835
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 3: say good because again, you haven't said anything I don't

836
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 3: agree with at any point except a matter of we

837
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: always have to have responsibility, have to has to be

838
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 3: there is on my only slight deviation what we're saying,

839
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 3: but talking about talking about their own philosophy that yes,

840
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: everybody in it is responsible for every aspect that they

841
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: are around, that they have the ability to perceive in

842
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: the ability to do something about. You know, we're all

843
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 3: collective responsible for the welfare of everybody around us all

844
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 3: of the time. That is just the truth of life.

845
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: And that's no, that's a certainly way operate in my life.

846
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, you know, doing this

847
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: podcast and living the life that I've lived with my

848
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: own experience with extreme belief. Like I personally, we talk

849
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: to people all the time who truly just did not

850
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: know how to identify what was happening to them. They

851
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: truly just did not have the information. And I think

852
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: it's really really important. I just want to emphasize, I

853
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: just want to end this particular debate by emphasizing that,

854
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: like anyone who has experienced abuse, it is not their

855
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: fault because it is our tendency to blame ourselves and

856
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: to say, well I should have done something, I should

857
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: have done something, I should have done something. But the

858
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: truth is that if something was done to you, that

859
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: person should not have done it. The responsibility is in

860
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: their hands, not in yours.

861
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 3: So we can absolutely true. It's absolutely true, but we're

862
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 3: talking about two slightly different things there, because no victim

863
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: is ever is responsible for the other person's behavior towards them.

864
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: It's it's I don't that we're not in disagreement, but

865
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: what I but you know, I could say just the

866
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: same thing again, which is for me to say that

867
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: that person or for you to say this person doesn't

868
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 3: have the ability to be responsible for themselves requires a

869
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 3: definition in law that you're not qualified and I'm not

870
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 3: qualified to give. I'm not a clinical psychologist. I'm not

871
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 3: you know, I don't have the ability to assess anybody's

872
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 3: mental capacity to be responsible. And I think the moment

873
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 3: we start getting into that area of mental capacity and ability,

874
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: I don't have that and I certainly won't put an

875
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 3: opinion to it, because we all, until the law takes

876
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 3: it away, have responsibility for ourselves. And I don't disagree

877
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 3: with you, but it's a dangerous place to be in

878
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 3: to think that I have the right to say, yeah,

879
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: but that person doesn't have the right because I'm bit no, no, no, no.

880
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: Nobody is saying this is the road. I just agree

881
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: that it's the road we're going down. I think the

882
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 1: road we're going down is an awareness of trauma response,

883
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: an awareness of flight flight freeze, an awareness that we

884
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 1: only know what we know at any given time, and

885
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: then once we know it, we can proceed differently. I mean,

886
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: I just like, no one is talking about policing. I

887
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: think that is completing two separate issues. It sounds like

888
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: generally speaking, we agree, but we I lean definitely more

889
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: on the UH on one side, and you more on

890
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: the personal responsibility side.

891
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: Is it kind of like what we're like, what we're

892
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 2: landing on is the angels are the angels, and theyll

893
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 2: live their lives, and then if they decide personally like hey,

894
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: I didn't like that, then then that's where the conversation

895
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: changes a little bit. But until then we have no

896
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: right to say that an angel isn't loving being an angel.

897
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: I'm not part of the angel or so I don't

898
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 3: know what anything that they do, but certainly the I'm

899
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: telling you something now, the angels I do know. I mean,

900
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: they're powerful, intellectual, strong women and I've been educated by them,

901
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 3: have been enlightened by them, have been frustrated by them,

902
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 3: annoyed by them as individuals because of, you know, opinions

903
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 3: that we all have that are all slightly that there

904
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 3: is I don't. I don't know any. I don't there's

905
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 3: none that I am aware of that I have any

906
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 3: concern about, because I don't know anything about the Angel Order.

907
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 3: So because I'm not in it, I am a guy.

908
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 3: I'm fully on the outside of it. But in the

909
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 3: same respect as that nuns are like nuns in the

910
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 3: in the Christian faith are married to Jesus, you know.

911
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 3: They they wear a wedding gown, they get married, and.

912
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: They haven't but they're not actually having sex with Jesus,

913
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: though I don't know what.

914
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: They're doing and I don't And what you don't know

915
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: is if they're they're all because then one could argue,

916
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 3: but they're now being conned in the fact that Jesus

917
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 3: isn't real, therefore he's dead. Therefore they're now living a

918
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 3: life of celibacy, you know, And they're not allowed to

919
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 3: touch themselves because of this, that and the other perhaps

920
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 3: like I don't know, I don't know, and I certainly don't.

921
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 3: I'm not interested in that. All I'm interested in is

922
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 3: are they making the choice with their own free will?

923
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 3: Is it what they want to do? Do they consider

924
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 3: themselves to be healthy? And if they want to get out,

925
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 3: can they get out? If someone wants to get out

926
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 3: of anything and they can't get out on their own,

927
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 3: and I hear about it or get the sense of it,

928
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: I'll be in theah. Call me yeah, I've got you

929
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: back the best I can.

930
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 1: For the record, I'm in this situation. I'm more talking

931
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: about people who the people who have the power, and

932
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: less about the people who don't have the power.

933
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: But I agree with people absolutely beare huge amounts of

934
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: responsibility and all of the people around them their responsible also,

935
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 3: And I do That's what I personally personally believe. But

936
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 3: you know, in law, I'm only responsible for what I do,

937
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 3: and if that is to turn a blind eye, i'm

938
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 3: responsible for that. If that is to perpetrate a crime,

939
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 3: then i'm responsible to that. Actually, if that is to

940
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: ignore somebody asking for help, I'm responsible.

941
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: For Sorry, I was going to say. In the UK,

942
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: there actually is there is a law now that addresses

943
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: course of control, which which explicitly does is say that

944
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm grooming. Yeah, that if you are a victim, you

945
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: are not responsible because there was somebody who had course

946
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: of control over you.

947
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 3: So in law, yes, that is an actual Yeah, yes,

948
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 3: but not in all cases that that one law doesn't

949
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 3: cover all things of or people. It just in certain circumstances,

950
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 3: in certain types of grooming, primarily initially with children. But

951
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: it's not just children. It's also trafficked women and boys

952
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: and men, you know, and slave labor. There's lots of

953
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 3: aspects that that law covers.

954
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: Anyways, I didn't mean to go so deep into this,

955
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: to this debate.

956
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: I have no problem.

957
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: I appreciate you discussing this with us so openly. I

958
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: think it's very cool. Yeah. I just wanted to address

959
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: this idea of real's angels because I think that that's

960
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: a point of controversy and it was worth, you know,

961
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: to discussing.

962
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know anything about it is the truth

963
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 3: because I'm not past that.

964
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So all right, so we should wrap up. This

965
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,959
Speaker 1: has been very stimulating. What would you say that people

966
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: most get wrong about the movement.

967
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have a clue. I have no I have

968
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: no idea. I mean, I think people the truth is

969
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: we often find what we look for is the truth.

970
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 3: You know. We look for control, we look for bigotry,

971
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 3: we look for manipulation, we look for those things. You

972
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 3: can find and I can find a problem with your

973
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: attitude which is open engaging that I could find a

974
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 3: problem with it if I really wanted to, even though

975
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 3: there really isn't a problem to find, I could still

976
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 3: find one if I tunes just by making it up

977
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,439
Speaker 3: and pushing it down the throat, and then you would

978
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 3: find a problem with my attitude because I created a

979
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 3: hostile environment. In truth, I think we're all responsible. Sorry,

980
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 3: I didn't how we view these things sometimes, and I

981
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: don't know what people's I don't know. I don't know, honestly,

982
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: I can't even answer the question you.

983
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: Never bombarded with like some common misconception or whatever.

984
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 3: Well, some people, some people think that it's anti Semitic

985
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 3: to use the swastika, for example, in the Star of David.

986
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 3: Some people think it.

987
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: Saying that really quick because people might not know what

988
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: you're referring to.

989
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: The swastika within the Star of David is a is

990
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 3: a symbol that's used in the rain philosophy, but it's

991
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 3: also a Jewish symbol. It's also a Jane's symbol. It's

992
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 3: also a Native American symbol. It's also in fact, it's

993
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: the cover of the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which

994
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 3: is the Buddhist book, which is the second oldest religion

995
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 3: on the planet. But for some reason some people tend

996
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: to try and say you shouldn't use the swastik inside

997
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 3: the Star of David. Well, the Way movement didn't make

998
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 3: it up. Yes, I understand it challenges the sensibilities of

999
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 3: a certain group of people, mainly European descendants and you know,

1000
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 3: people who are fully aware of the trustees of the Nazis.

1001
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 3: I don't and I want to say the Holocaust, I

1002
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: don't just mean that the perpetration of this disgusting regime

1003
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 3: on Jewish people. More than thirteen million people died in

1004
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 3: death camps. There weren't just six million Jews. There were

1005
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 3: thirteen million plus people that went to their deaths it

1006
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 3: according to official figures in those places. So it's not

1007
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 3: just a Jewish issue that the swastika would be inside

1008
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 3: the Star of David. It's also you know, it's a

1009
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,959
Speaker 3: human issue in Europe that the Times can be looked

1010
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 3: at as a it's offensive to do to use the symbol,

1011
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 3: But the truth is the swastika itself is one of

1012
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 3: one of the most most revered and respected religious symbol

1013
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,720
Speaker 3: on the planet across all cultures, including judies and including.

1014
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: Well, you know, maybe past tense. I don't know if

1015
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: it still is right.

1016
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 3: Well, it is in Asia. It is in Asia. For example,

1017
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: I spent like a couple of months in China and

1018
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 3: working and swastikas are everywhere. People wearing all the T shirts,

1019
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 3: people are you know, meditating in front of them. People.

1020
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 3: And also the Foreign Office in London, if you look

1021
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 3: around all of the windows, there was probably about thirty

1022
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 3: thousand swastikas. And that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office adjoins

1023
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 3: ten Downing Street or Downing Street where the British Prime

1024
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 3: Minister sits. The Indian Embassy is a massive swastika outside

1025
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 3: of it. The Royal Academy of the Arts has possibly

1026
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 3: thirty thousand swastikas on the outside of it in London.

1027
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 3: So these are part of our culture. The British Museum

1028
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: have some like thirty thousand examples of swastika in its archives.

1029
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 3: Like I could go on forever. It is only Western

1030
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 3: European descendants like myself that were shocked at the use

1031
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 3: of the swastika, and I was too, But I have

1032
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that it is part of Native American culture.

1033
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 3: If you know, some of the tpis of the of

1034
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 3: the Native American councils that still sit sit under huge decoratives.

1035
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: But why, but why does Rail?

1036
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 3: You?

1037
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: Why did Rail choose it? Though?

1038
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: Because it is the symbol of the Elohim, And that

1039
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 3: is why it is prevalent in all of the culture

1040
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: across across the Earth throughout human history, is because it

1041
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 3: is the Elohim symbol. He didn't choose it. The chooses,

1042
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 3: and then humanity has used it throughout so of course

1043
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 3: he could disrespect them by saying, oh, you can't use

1044
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 3: that symbol because it's offensive. Here. It's only offensive to

1045
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 3: a percentage of people. And I understand the sensibility. It's

1046
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 3: not like I didn't share it. When I first saw

1047
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 3: the symbol, I was like, what, what do you not

1048
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: realize that? You know? It's like I didn't share all

1049
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 3: of the same thought process. I just looked, read, looked around,

1050
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: discovered it. He made a little document so tired of

1051
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 3: answering the question from people on them, you know, on

1052
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 3: social media, once they found out I was reading, I

1053
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: made a little documentary called the Swastika Trail, which is

1054
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 3: on YouTube, which just talks about it in the use

1055
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 3: of it in London alone, and you know, it's just

1056
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 3: it's just a little documentary that the BBC We're going

1057
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 3: to pick it up and make it into a bigger

1058
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: documentary till they realized I was the cult weirdo and

1059
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 3: then they decided to drop. So it's not something I'm

1060
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: oblivious to. But it isn't something that Rail chose, and

1061
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 3: it isn't something that the movement chose. It is the

1062
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 3: symbol of the l him and that is why it

1063
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 3: exists in the first place.

1064
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So I didn't mean to interrupt what you

1065
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: were saying before, but thank you for that explanation.

1066
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 3: I've no idea what I was saying before.

1067
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: You were saying that people accused the movement of being

1068
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: anti Semitic and other Yeah, just.

1069
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 3: Because they want to. They want to because it's it's

1070
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 3: a great I think that's called an similar Today, somebody

1071
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 3: on Facebook, you know, wrote and said, do you realize

1072
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: that you're use of the swastika is you know, it

1073
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 3: makes you, you know, hating you people. You're an anti Semite.

1074
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 3: And I was like, honestly, honestly, there's not one part

1075
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 3: of me that has any bit of hate towards any

1076
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 3: particular group of people except aggressive, stupid, and I just

1077
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: have got no time for it. But I don't, so

1078
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 3: of course now I'm an anti smitch. Okay, I'll be

1079
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 3: an anti semi for you. Just go off, Have you

1080
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 3: have a pint? You know, I enjoy, enjoy your evening

1081
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 3: and go for Are there.

1082
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: Any Are there any Jewish brilliance?

1083
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Many many?

1084
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: Well, okay, well many many many many many? How many?

1085
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: Because it's how many members are there worldwide?

1086
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 3: Do you know?

1087
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: Approximately?

1088
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 3: See? These are the things, these are the things you

1089
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: shouldn't ask me. How many? I'm not really sure.

1090
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: I bet Google on how many reallyance?

1091
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 3: The official figures in Britain in Britain ten years ago

1092
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 3: were one thousand, two hundreds. The official figures in Britain

1093
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 3: three years ago one thousand, two hundreds. But the truth is,

1094
00:57:58,040 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 3: in all the years I've been raid and I've met

1095
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 3: way more than one thy two hundred British raids who

1096
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 3: call themselves Brilliance. But how many people do I have

1097
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: at a regular meeting? Fifty in London? Okay? You know,

1098
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: you know, twenty five in you know in various other

1099
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 3: cities around the country. Are they ones that I don't know?

1100
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: I don't keep the numbers because I've never liked gangs

1101
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 3: or groups. So for me, like if there were fifty

1102
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 3: thousand of us, I'd probably be more uncomfortable than if

1103
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 3: there were five of us.

1104
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: This random website says, according to the president of the

1105
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: North American Relians, there are around one hundred thirty thousand

1106
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: members and more than eighty countries.

1107
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure he's right.

1108
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: Okay, it doesn't specify Thomas.

1109
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 3: It just Thomas Kenzig. Thomas would know way better than

1110
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: I do, because Thomas is connected to the Internet and

1111
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: there's all the numbers and figures like that. Got it?

1112
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 3: Got it? So Thomas Thomas is your man for me,

1113
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 3: not a numbers.

1114
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: That cool? Well, is there anything else you'd like to say?

1115
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to tell people? Go look

1116
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: at our final words?

1117
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 3: Do you feel brainwashed by this conversation?

1118
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: I don't.

1119
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 3: Then you have absolutely nothing to fear from ever meeting

1120
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: any rate in anywhere in the world, you don't have fun.

1121
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 3: If you want to give them a wide berth, They're

1122
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 3: all probably as annoying as I can be, So give

1123
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 3: them a wide birth. If you want to have fun

1124
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 3: with them, go and have a laugh and certain express

1125
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 3: your opinion and I have a good, healthy debate. Go

1126
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 3: chat to them. If it's the same for anyone. If

1127
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 3: you feel manipulated by this conversation, I wholly apologize, it's

1128
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 3: not my intention. All I can do is send you

1129
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 3: my love and good luck to you. So I don't

1130
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 3: believe in love to either, I'll send you my love.

1131
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: That'll do, Okay, Well, thank you so much for talking

1132
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: to us.

1133
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 3: Glenn's pleasure.

1134
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: Okay, y'all. Who that was a lot? That was a lot.

1135
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I really appreciate Glenn having an open dialogue

1136
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: about all of these things that I know are controversial

1137
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: points for the group.

1138
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 3: With us.

1139
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit unresolved because there are some

1140
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: points that I think I need to make still for

1141
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: our listeners. Do you mind if I go on some rants, Megan,

1142
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: I don't mind some pre written rants. Let's do it, okay,

1143
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: all right? Pre ramp me. All right, guys, So just

1144
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: a few points here, So number one, because the personal

1145
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: responsibility argument is bringing up a larger conversation about consent.

1146
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: I want to touch on this issue of fight fight

1147
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: freeze again, which I mentioned earlier, but if anyone is

1148
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: not familiar, these are the different possible trauma responses, and

1149
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: there's actually another one that was more recently coined, which

1150
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: I just found out about. I am a bad psychology nerd.

1151
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: So I grew up in a time when we believed

1152
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: that it couldn't be assault unless your response was fight

1153
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: or flight. If someone's attacking you with a gun and

1154
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: you're like trying to get away, or someone's like pinning

1155
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: you down physically and you're punching up, right, that's what

1156
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: I thought rape was growing up. Well, we now know

1157
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: what science tells us is that there are additional ways

1158
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: that humans respond to a traumatic event, and they do

1159
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: not negate the impact of that violence or that trauma,

1160
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: even if it's not physical violence. So these other ways,

1161
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: which have to do with chemicals in your brain and

1162
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: not whether you're strong or brave or whatever the fuck,

1163
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: They are called freeze, which many of us have heard of,

1164
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: and also fon so freeze is when you become immobile,

1165
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: your system becomes overwhelmed and you basically do nothing. You

1166
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: cannot move. Fawn is when you revert to soothing, calming,

1167
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: or pleasing behaviors toward the person whom you feel attacked

1168
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: by or are being attacked by, so that they don't

1169
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: become violent or more violent, or hurt you more or whatever.

1170
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: So whatever response you have to trauma is determined by

1171
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: a combination of your biology, your attachment style, the experiences

1172
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: that you've had, basically, and you literally don't have control

1173
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: over it because it is your lizard brain. It is

1174
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: your amigdala's response. And what that means is like when

1175
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: the amigdala takes over, when you go into survival mode,

1176
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: the part of your brain that can think and plan

1177
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: and be logical, make rational decisions, whatever shuts the fuck off.

1178
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,439
Speaker 1: So whatever you respond, whether your fight, whether your flight,

1179
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: whether you're freeze, whether you're fawn, any way that you

1180
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: respond to trauma is okay and it's normal and it's

1181
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: not your fucking fault.

1182
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1183
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,959
Speaker 1: Shout out to my mom, doctor Christin Marie, who talked

1184
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: about this with me with us. I just want to

1185
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: say that because I think there are just so many

1186
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: misconceptions still and it pisses me off. It pisses me off,

1187
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: as you can tell I'm pissed off. I'm not pissed

1188
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: off at Glenn. It's just like an overall pissed offness

1189
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: that there is still any question of like whether a

1190
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: victim is a real victim or whatever, or like what

1191
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: it's not a matter of personal responsibility when it involves trauma, y'all,

1192
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: Like it's not okay. So that's point number one, point

1193
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: number two. When we talk about coercion, sexual or otherwise,

1194
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: we can think about it in terms of whether there

1195
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: is a threat or an offer on the table. So

1196
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: if you do something because there's a threat of any

1197
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: kind of loss, be it financial, physical, like as in violence, spiritual,

1198
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: like maybe you'll you won't get to heaven or commune all,

1199
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: you'll lose your place in the community, familial, you will

1200
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: no longer have access to your family, anything else, that's coercion,

1201
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: even if it's super subtle, as subtle, as like you'll

1202
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: no longer be in this order, you'll no longer have

1203
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: this title in the community, like people will whatever. If

1204
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: you're doing something, uh, because there's an offer on the table. However,

1205
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: it might not be coercion unless that offer is fake

1206
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: or based on deception or manipulation of reality, such as

1207
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: somebody claiming to be a prophet who is not fact

1208
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: a profit. I am not saying that I know for

1209
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 1: a fact that Rail is not a prophet, right who knows?

1210
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: Maybe he is, But if he isn't at that point,

1211
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: anyone who is doing his bidding under the pretense that

1212
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: he is a prophet or or may not doing his bidding,

1213
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: but like you know, having sex with him because he

1214
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: is who he is, that is no longer consent. That

1215
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: is fraud, and that is coercion. So think about it

1216
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: in terms of a contract. If you have a contract

1217
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: and you are falsely induced or deceived about the basic premise,

1218
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: consent to those terms is rendered, Nolan void. You can't

1219
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: consent if the thing that you believe that is making

1220
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: you want to do the other thing is not real.

1221
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: Does this make sense? Oh yeah, okay, I just want

1222
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: to say that. And again, like I am not judging

1223
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: any Ralian. I'm not judging Glenn. I think Glenn is

1224
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: very very smart. I think his heart is in the

1225
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: right place.

1226
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: And not judging any of the alien angels, if that's

1227
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 2: what No, If genuinely I love doing absolutely not.

1228
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: But I think it's important to consider all of these

1229
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 1: factors when taking into a count anyone's behavior who is

1230
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: in a position of power over other people and the community.

1231
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: In Burkina. Fosso is super interesting because, like, there is

1232
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: a hospital that the Ralians erected which basically existed for

1233
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: the sole purpose of repairing victims of female genital mutilation,

1234
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 1: repairing their bodies, which is an amazing thing. It got

1235
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: shut down for reasons that I don't actually understand. It

1236
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: seems like because they were saying the government was basically like,

1237
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: you can't use this as a way to convert people

1238
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: to religion or whatever. I don't.

1239
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 3: I don't.

1240
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: That's a really seems like a really complicated argument, And

1241
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really know what the right thing

1242
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: is in that situation, because ultimately, like they weren't doing good.

1243
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: But also I could see a situation where I'm in

1244
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: a community and something is being offered to me that

1245
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: would change my life, and I would then feel indebted

1246
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: to that group. Yes, that person. Yes, I'm not saying

1247
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: that that's what's happening. I don't know. I don't know

1248
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: how those women feel. I don't want to speak for them,

1249
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: but I know if it were me, there might be

1250
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: some confusing feelings there. Yeah, that's all so, And then

1251
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: one more quick statement on the on the issue of

1252
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: making the choice of whether or not to come forward

1253
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 1: about any abuse or trauma that's happened to you. So

1254
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: aside from the issue that, God, I've had a fucking

1255
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 1: dude debate this with me and oh, I'm gonna get

1256
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: fired up again, aside from the issue that it can

1257
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: take years to come to terms with the trauma or

1258
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: even just to understand the subtle dynamics of what happened,

1259
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: and to not blame ourselves for something to even recognize

1260
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: that it was assault. Years very very very common, y'all,

1261
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: because the most common victim response is to blame ourselves.

1262
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: So even aside from this issue, So let's say we

1263
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: already know it's an assault, we've already come to terms

1264
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: with it, we understand what happened.

1265
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 3: Which is.

1266
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: Difficult to get to. But let's say we're starting from

1267
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: this point, right, victims all have to weigh whether it's

1268
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: right for them to come forward about it. Or to

1269
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: out someone, and each person might make a different choice

1270
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: in that scenario, and everyone has to do what's right

1271
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: for them. There is no right answer. But regardless of

1272
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: what the choice is after the fact, because this sort

1273
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: of came up when we were talking about how I

1274
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: chose not to name my A and R guy who

1275
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: blocked the door when I tried to leave, Regardless of

1276
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: what you choose about whether to come forward, it doesn't

1277
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: erase the events me not naming that an R guy

1278
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: who did that when I tried to leave, who assaulted me,

1279
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that assault didn't happen. Right, Like I have,

1280
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: I had a choice to make. It did take me

1281
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 1: years to come to terms with what happened, because I

1282
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: did blame myself because I was attracted to him and

1283
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: all the other things we discussed in that recent episode

1284
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: about Hollywood. But like, yes, I have the choice of

1285
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: whether to out him, whether respond or whatever. It doesn't

1286
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: negate his behavior. It doesn't mean that that person didn't

1287
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: abuse his power. That's not what that means. That is

1288
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: a separate discussion, and I just wanted to clarify that

1289
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: because I felt like in getting into the weeds on

1290
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: the personal responsibility stuff. It's like, oh, but you have

1291
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 1: the choice whatever. It doesn't matter. If somebody abused you.

1292
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: They abused you, period, end of story. How you then

1293
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: choose to respond to is based on a multitude of factors.

1294
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: It's not so simple for everyone, Like financially, they might

1295
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: not be in a position in their lives where they

1296
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: can risk their entire career. I don't think that we

1297
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: can blame anyone for that. I don't think we can

1298
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: say that those experiences aren't as valid. I don't think

1299
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: we can say they did anything wrong. That is all.

1300
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: I love it. Who Okay, that's okay. We have more

1301
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: stuff coming you guys.

1302
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 2: We are just we're getting real hot and bothered by

1303
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: some ship lately, so check in with us next week.

1304
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 2: We hope you have an amazing week, and as always,

1305
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags, and.

1306
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: Never ever trust me. Why fucking bye bye