WEBVTT - Mike Lyons talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>The Armstrong and Getting Show. And I think it's fair

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<v Speaker 1>to say that Mr Trump did not create the mess

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<v Speaker 1>in Afghanistan. But I also think you're gonna end up

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<v Speaker 1>owning its tragic outcome. We got this brilliant ambassador Khalizad,

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<v Speaker 1>who knows more about Afghanistan and anyone in the US

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<v Speaker 1>government negotiating and gutter with the Taliban. But Mr Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has said publicly essentially we're out politically by so what

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<v Speaker 1>is there to negotiate. The Taliban are also winning, are

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<v Speaker 1>now control more terrain than they have some two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and one. The Afghan government is fractured and competent, corrupt.

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<v Speaker 1>Their military is semi dysfunctional. No belligerent ever negotiates away

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<v Speaker 1>something that won in the battlefield. The situation looks tragic.

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<v Speaker 1>The outcome will come soon after we withdraw. That's General

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<v Speaker 1>Barry McCafferty. You was on MSNBC last night. Uh, he's

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<v Speaker 1>making the argument and why we gotta stay in Afghanistan.

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post today, the editorial board pieces Trump risks turning

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<v Speaker 1>a chance for success in Afghanistan into a shameful failure.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it's a failure right now based on

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<v Speaker 1>what General McCafferty just said. Tallyband has more property than

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<v Speaker 1>they had in the last eighteen years. The government is

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<v Speaker 1>completely a mess. So we've spent I don't know how

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<v Speaker 1>many trillion dollars on this project and all these years

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<v Speaker 1>and thousands of lives, and and this is where we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Why would I think it's gonna get any better anyway?

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<v Speaker 1>I need to hear from another expert. Yeah, with all

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<v Speaker 1>due respect to General McCafferty, My clients a military analysts

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<v Speaker 1>for CBS News and others throughout the year, retire major

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<v Speaker 1>as well artilleryman Mike clients, how are you, sir? Hey, guys,

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<v Speaker 1>so great to be back with you. So why don't

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<v Speaker 1>we start with the general's description of the situation, his prescription,

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<v Speaker 1>which is we have to stay the course your reaction.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, that's a kind of a classic ec Swamp

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<v Speaker 1>frankly description to what's going on there. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>staying there is the definition of insanity doing the same

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<v Speaker 1>thing over and over and think we're gonna get a

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<v Speaker 1>different result. The president cut the troops in half, the

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<v Speaker 1>Taliban took more uh land while they were there. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>this gets back to we've got to decide as a nation,

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<v Speaker 1>if we want to go to war like this endlessly

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<v Speaker 1>and um and do something about it. This this president

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<v Speaker 1>is at least willing to stick um, you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>stake in the ground, and his heel's gonna take a

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<v Speaker 1>very big political hit. And when when we see this

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<v Speaker 1>turn into what will be Vietnam nineteen seventy five, No question,

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<v Speaker 1>the Taliban is going to kick out the current government

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<v Speaker 1>there and they're gonna return Sharia lawn, bring the whole

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<v Speaker 1>situation back to But after eighteen years, there's not again.

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<v Speaker 1>We want to spend another dollar, you want to spend

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<v Speaker 1>another life there? I'm not sure that's a good option. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the political hit, the politics of it is is a

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<v Speaker 1>different story. I I don't I don't know how people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to react to that. I would I would

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<v Speaker 1>assume after all this time, the cume doesn't think, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, look what's happened. Um, My heart breaks for

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<v Speaker 1>people who live there. God, I think of some little

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<v Speaker 1>girl who's going to have to live in that country.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awful. But we can't fix it unless we really

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated a tremendous amount of manpower, lives and money to it.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're not going to do that establish police state

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<v Speaker 1>because there are people living in those tragic conditions all

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<v Speaker 1>over the world. Right, we had these ebbs and flows

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<v Speaker 1>over the past eighteen years. You know. The Obama administration

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<v Speaker 1>comes in said it was the Good War. Surgis troops

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<v Speaker 1>there to over a hundred and thirty thousand, We gained

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<v Speaker 1>control of most of the outlying provinces, and it went

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<v Speaker 1>well from a military perspective. But then all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he wants out of there too. He put

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<v Speaker 1>conditions just like this president did. They were based on

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<v Speaker 1>a calendar. He said that that was going to make

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<v Speaker 1>the couple of government more responsive. That that didn't do

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<v Speaker 1>anything that The bottom line is it's still a country

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<v Speaker 1>with a very low rate of education. Um, the literacy

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<v Speaker 1>rates remains very high. We've tried to impart Western values

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<v Speaker 1>which we think we can export, but we can't, and

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<v Speaker 1>we've not exported, um the capitalism that we should have.

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<v Speaker 1>The Chinese have come in. They own a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the land mass in Afghanistan because they're stripping it out

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<v Speaker 1>for rare earth minerals as well. And um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>again the Taliban when they when they were in power,

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<v Speaker 1>allowed al Qaeda free reign there. I think the only

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<v Speaker 1>difference now is we'll have this throughout this very thin

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<v Speaker 1>needle that says, um, if you bring al Qaida anybody back,

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<v Speaker 1>then that violates the deal and we're gonna come back

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<v Speaker 1>into Afghanistan. All that means they're gonna use strategic weapons

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<v Speaker 1>to go after people. I'm certainly no genius just reading

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<v Speaker 1>these stories in the newspaper and following the news. I've

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<v Speaker 1>been saying that now for like fifteen years. We tell

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<v Speaker 1>the Taliban we're leaving, You're you're gonna take the country.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you let al Qaida set up shop again,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna bomb the crap audio and I think they would,

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<v Speaker 1>they would. We're gonna end up in the same spot

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<v Speaker 1>a decade and a half later. Right now, You're you're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing also reports that al Qaeda has increased its ranks

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<v Speaker 1>by four or five hundred in Afghanistan. Um, you're also

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<v Speaker 1>seeing the same resurge and of isis in in Um

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<v Speaker 1>in Syria and and a rock. I can't tell if

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<v Speaker 1>it's just the media just concerning to troll the president

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<v Speaker 1>because he obviously says that we've defeated them. We have,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's not possible to defeat the ideologies. Um, it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to take a lot longer than that. But the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom line is, Um, whether the Taliban goes after al

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<v Speaker 1>Qaeda inside Afghanistan when they finally take over, remains to

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<v Speaker 1>be seen. My clients CBS military analysts on the line.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, in the spirit of fairness, I criticized Barack

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<v Speaker 1>Obama fairly harshly for setting time because it's just in

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<v Speaker 1>this situation, you can't have that umbrella over a negotiation, or,

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<v Speaker 1>as General McCafferty pointed out, why would you negotiate if

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<v Speaker 1>you if you have the upper hands. So I don't

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<v Speaker 1>like that. I get it politically speaking, Uh, it's always

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<v Speaker 1>an election cycle, but I just don't think it's very smart.

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<v Speaker 1>But no, we're gonna have to call it something. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be victory or defeat. Um. We go

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<v Speaker 1>into this with our eyes wide open. We were taking

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<v Speaker 1>down the Taliban government and taking out Alqaida after nine eleven.

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<v Speaker 1>It was great intentions. The Bush administration was all in,

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<v Speaker 1>everything was good, and then our focus shifted to Iraq

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<v Speaker 1>and frankly, we've been you know, kind of wandering since then.

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<v Speaker 1>And the military is not going to stand up and

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<v Speaker 1>say we're not doing this anymore. That's just not what

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<v Speaker 1>they're that's in their in their DNA. Interesting. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>this horrifying attack at a wedding in Kable, Afghanistan, over

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<v Speaker 1>the weekend, and it was isis killed seasty five people

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that, and the Tally band said, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's beyond the pale. So we're we're we're are the Taliban,

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<v Speaker 1>and iis, how do they fit into Afghanistan? So they

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<v Speaker 1>perceived them to be a threat to the Taliban. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how've been perceived isis to be a threat to what

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<v Speaker 1>they're trying to do. And let's let the Taliban. Yeah again,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll see what they'll They'll be more focused on getting

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<v Speaker 1>control of couple. And then the civil war takes breens,

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<v Speaker 1>which is really what's happening. That we're in the brink

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<v Speaker 1>of a civil war there in inside of Afghanistan. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's only been going on for what nine thousand years anyway, um,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it's all kind of it's just as a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of who is going to take control and who

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<v Speaker 1>out the power and what they're gonna do when they

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<v Speaker 1>get it. Um. You know, whether maybe this is why

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<v Speaker 1>the president wants he does. He definitely wants to pick

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<v Speaker 1>it up as an election accomplishment and which is why

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<v Speaker 1>he wants out both for election. You know, if I

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<v Speaker 1>were the president, Mike, I have a number of access

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<v Speaker 1>to grind and causes that I would babble about, but

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<v Speaker 1>one of them would be helping Americans understand we can't

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<v Speaker 1>solve everything. There are some problems that just have to

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<v Speaker 1>be managed. It's like a chronic health condition. You just

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<v Speaker 1>do your best. And I think we we as a country,

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<v Speaker 1>feel like we can fix everything, and we just can't.

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<v Speaker 1>And and and we've we've we need to pivot back

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<v Speaker 1>to that Cold War mentality where we contain Russia. That

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<v Speaker 1>was the big thing to contain, and now we've got

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<v Speaker 1>to do the same kind of containment in the Middle

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<v Speaker 1>East and in Afghanistan in a smaller scale. And the

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<v Speaker 1>problem is where we you don't have the military design

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. We were into the strategic weapons, We're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna hit you from five miles away, and you'll ever

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<v Speaker 1>see that, you ever see it coming. All those kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of things. We still built a military around occupying and

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<v Speaker 1>working with our allies on the ground, knowing full well

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<v Speaker 1>that we're not going to change anything. We're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to change in lines no matter what we bring to

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<v Speaker 1>the table. Next time we talk buying Greenland with my clients,

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<v Speaker 1>military analyst, Giant airfielder, Mike, it's always enlightening. Thanks a million,

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<v Speaker 1>got it. My only final note on this is the

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<v Speaker 1>annoyance of the media. I just do not believe that

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<v Speaker 1>NBC in the Washington Post would be arguing against leaving

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<v Speaker 1>Afghanistan if Barack Obama were doing exactly the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I just don't believe it. People, smart, people of good

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<v Speaker 1>conscience can be on both sides of this argument, no doubt, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't believe that's what's happening with the Washington Post.

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<v Speaker 1>And Barack Obama was saying it's been long enough, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna get out, they'd be cheering it, guarantee. That's really maddening. Yep,

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<v Speaker 1>what's coming up? For the record, we're saying the same

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<v Speaker 1>stuff when old Barry was the president. Yeah, I was,

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<v Speaker 1>we are now I've been forgetting out the whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>What's coming up your news? Marshall, California's new deadly use

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<v Speaker 1>of forest law stirring up a national debate Jill Biden's

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<v Speaker 1>rather odd endorsement of husband Joe and turning hostility into inspiration.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait a minute, I could use that. I'd be a

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<v Speaker 1>cool pivot. What if I can do that? Stay tuned,

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<v Speaker 1>are Strong and Getty